From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #6 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, January 4 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 006 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Santa - red ot grey? NJC [anne@sandstrom.com] Fwd: sex is everything (njc) [jan gyn ] Fwd: Addendum to Webster's Dictionary (njc) [jan gyn ] Re: Lord of the Rings njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Chat ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Re: Santa - red ot grey? NJC [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Lord of the Rings (NJC) [] Re: Subject: Your first 2002 Joni ["Sherman" ] Re: NJC If Joni became Jewish [colin ] Kevin's Schedule (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: First Joni of 02 [Michael Paz ] Chat Room ["William Waddell" ] Re: NJC Book NJC [Michael Paz ] Re: Deprivation Challenge! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Lord of the Rings NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] first kiss ["Garret" ] Re: NJC If Joni became Jewish [Nuriel Tobias ] NJC Kibutz and city - STAS rewrite [TimandMaryPowers@aol.com] Re: first kiss ["mack watson-bush" ] RE: Lord of the Rings ["Garret" ] Re: Chat now njc [Catherine McKay ] re - Jewish Joni [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Lord of the Rings - J.R.R.'s birthday (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: NJC Book NJC [Michael Paz ] NJC no Joni in 2002 ["Steve Polifka" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #5 [Abbymusique@aol.com] Re: Lord of the Rings (NJC) ["hell" ] Joni in 2002 ["hell" ] Re: Lord of the Rings (NJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: NJC no Joni in 2002 [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni in 2002 [Catherine McKay ] Re: Lord of the Rings (NJC) [dsk ] Re: NJC Book NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #5 [Catherine McKay ] RE: joni and no listen to her njc ["Johnson Victor" ] Re: NJC + Woody Allen ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Lord of the Rings (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: Lord of the Rings (NJC) [Rick and Susan ] Re: NJC If Joni became Jewish ["Ron Greer" ] today's report NJC - wally ["Ron Greer" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 15:19:42 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: RE: Santa - red ot grey? NJC Hi Nuri! I'm a little behind in digests. (My email server just becomes inaccessible sometimes...) Someone may have answered this already. Anyway, Santa was often sort of a maroonish red pre-Coca Cola, although sometimes 'real' red. He was also sometimes wearing a white coat, a beige coat, or even a green coat... BUT he was often THIN before Coca-Cola changed him into a very round fellow... See what Coke will do to you??? (can't stand Coke or Pepsi, myself... although there was a time when I drank Coke for breakfast - YUCK!) lots of love Anne NV (now viewing): my collection of old and old-looking Santas... mostly thin, and mostly maroon... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 15:23:09 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Fwd: sex is everything (njc) >A little boy returning home from his first day at school said to his mother - >"Mom, what's sex?" > >His mother cringed at the question but knew it would some day come. >Believing in all the most modern educational theories, she gave him a >detailed explanation, covering all aspects of the tricky subject. > >When she had finished, the little lad produced an enrolment form which he had >brought home from school and said - >"Okay Mom... but how am I going to get all that into this one little square!?" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 15:25:49 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Fwd: Addendum to Webster's Dictionary (njc) >> > The Washington Post published a contest for readers in which they were >> > asked to supply alternate meanings for various words. >> > >> > >> > The following were some of the winning entries: >> > >> > Coffee (n.), a person who is coughed upon. >> > >> > Flabbergasted (adj.), appalled over how much weight you have gained. >> > >> > Abdicate (v.), to give up all hope of ever having a flat stomach. >> > >> > Esplanade (v.), to attempt an explanation while drunk. >> > >> > Willy-nilly (adj.), impotent >> > >> > Negligent (adj.), describes a condition in which you absentmindedly >> > answer the door in your nightie. >> > >> > Lymph (v.), to walk with a lisp. >> > >> > Gargoyle (n.), an olive-flavored mouthwash. >> > >> > Flatulence (n.) the emergency vehicle that picks you up after you are >>run >> > over by a steamroller. >> > >> > Balderdash (n.), a rapidly receding hairline. >> > >> > Testicle (n.), a humorous question on an exam. >> > >> > Rectitude (n.), the formal, dignified demeanor assumed by a >>proctologist >> > immediately before he examines you. >> > >> > Oyster (n.), a person who sprinkles his conversation with Yiddish >> > expressions. >> > >> > Circumvent (n.), the opening in the front of boxer shorts. >> > >> > Frisbeetarianism (n.), The belief that, when you die, your soul goes >>up >> > on the roof and gets stuck there. >> > >> > Pokemon (n), A Jamaican proctologist. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 15:27:30 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: re: Lord of the Rings Kate, I'm in total agreement. (Sorry, I didn't follow the previous threads about the movie - I was convinced I wasn't going to see it...) I found the movie long and boring. And I probably checked my watch every 10 minutes... I won't be paying good money to see parts 2 and 3... lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 17:24:45 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: homosexual content njc Well folks. We had our first meeting today with the new owner. We had fill out our consent to do criminal check forms. Shouldn't be too long til the cat is out of the bag and I am embarrassed, disenfranchised (so to speak), humiliated, laughed at, and who knows what else. Holding up relatively well I guess but still bothering me and not looking forward to the coming days. Frustrated, afraid, and angry. Angry that I even have to go throught this for 15 minutes of action 24 years ago, and for the terrible offense of making love. I told my friend Rosalie today that I was queer. Figured she already knew anyway but it wasn't easy. She didn't care, still loves me. She is special. Still, that was very hard. Couldn't keep it inside anymore about this work business. Needed to vent. This seems rather trivial, I would suppose, in contrast to Wally's predicament but not to me, not at this moment, but hope I will digest it and feel better tomorrow. Must say that it is great to return home and have my family here to talk about it with. You mean a lot of me. Love, mack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 17:30:29 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings njc wow, all this conversation about the movie makes me really curious. Interested to see it now. Will have to wait until it comes out on cable. Don't go the theatre anymore. Took expensive and too far away. Closest one 55 miles from home. mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 5:27 PM Subject: re: Lord of the Rings > Kate, > I'm in total agreement. (Sorry, I didn't follow the > previous threads about the movie - I was convinced I > wasn't going to see it...) > > I found the movie long and boring. And I probably > checked my watch every 10 minutes... > > I won't be paying good money to see parts 2 and 3... > > lots of love > Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 17:32:53 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: joni and no listen to her njc I tried Catherine but already failed. Besides, I listened yesterday and the day before too. Mack > > Oh ye of little intestinal fortitude - I STILL haven't > listened to any Joni; however, here's my excuse - I'm > on holidays because the kids are off school and the > little buggers won't let me play any of *my* stuff! > > ______________________________________________________ > Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 18:57:09 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Deprivation Challenge! To quote Kramer, "I'm out." I listened to the Both Sides Now CD on January 2. At 05:41 PM 1/3/02 -0500, you wrote: >How are we going to prove it? Are we supposed to >believe the *other* is completely honest? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 00:06:13 -0000 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Chat Just to let people know I'm in the chat room If you're not there, that's ok Much Joni May peace break out ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 19:14:12 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Santa - red ot grey? NJC In a message dated 1/3/02 6:20:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, anne@sandstrom.com writes: > Anyway, Santa was often sort of a maroonish red > pre-Coca Cola, although sometimes 'real' red. He was > also sometimes wearing a white coat, a beige coat, or > even a green coat... > I love the Victorian Santas and antique Christmas cards. I use to take ceramic classes many decades ago and I would paint the old Victorian Santa's, like you said Anne sometimes winter white, sometimes a deep red and then I would antique them and wipe it off quickly so all that was brown were the nooks and crannies. Poor Santa looked like he fell in mud, but I loved the aged look. I have boxes of these things stored in my closet. I just don't have the heart to toss them out. ~rose ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 19:33:42 -0500 From: Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings (NJC) Steve Dulson wrote: > I have to disagree with Victor and Kate's opinions about the lack of character development in the movie. Just one example - the was a collective gasp of anguish from the audience that I was in when Boromir was shot. Obviously, *that* audience had found a way to relate to the characters. I did not mean that people could not make any emotional connection to the characters or not relate to them at all. I was really able to connect with Frodo and with Gandalf, especially throughout the whole beginning in the Shire. But after that, I was unable to really fall under the spell of the movie. When you have read something around a dozen times and the characters are so vivid in your imagination, I think most any attempt to portray them on a live screen is going to seem lacking. I know these characters too well...every little piece of dialogue that illuminates some facet of their personality. In the book, Pippin drops a small pebble down the well that makes the tiniest noise but a noise that can be heard throughout the caverns. Gandalf is angry and makes Pippin take the first watch, and then feels sorry for him and relieves the young lad. In the movie, instead of pebble, he drops a skull and a whole coat of armour down, that makes an obvious noise that draws the orcs and the attack ensues. It is these little differences that made it so hard to be drawn into the movie version. Another major thing was Saruman commanding the mountain to attack the party which I thought was completely absurd. You might expect that in a typical "good against evil" movie but Tolkien is so much more subtle and unique. In the book, it is the mountain itself that wants them to turn around and not let them continue. These differences may not seem that important but they are a big part of the fabric of Tolkien's writing. And throughout the movie, he had a tendency to oversimplify things and over exaggerate parts, I guess, so they would be more easily understood by people who had never read the original. This may be all well and good for the movie but in many ways, so much of the magic and subtleness is lost. Each time I reread LoTR I notice more and more of these things and experience a different journey every time. To be thrust into a movie version was just too difficult for me I think. I agree that he did a remarkable job and I am glad that so many people have been able to really enjoy it. Victor in snowy Athens It must have been a terrifically hard film to make, and I think some of the action sequences went on too long - how much screen time did the cave troll get? - and one or two of the casting choices seem odd, but overall I think Jackson did an excellent job. - -- ################################################## ###### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 19:40:38 -0500 From: "Sherman" Subject: Re: Subject: Your first 2002 Joni My husband and daughter went to Arby's yesterday (2-2-02) for lunch. When I got home they were laughing saying "guess who we heard in Arby's?" I screamed, "JONI!" They said, yep, that song about paved paradise. So Big Yellow Taxi is playing in Arby's in 2002! Best wishes for a Happy New year for all. Janine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 00:44:32 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC If Joni became Jewish > "He comes for Conversion" > I knoew you are joking but did you know that jews don't convert? According to a recent doc I saw they stopped converting eons ago and decide that you could only be born into the faith. this was because they had been so persecuted so they thought'well up yours, you can't join us'. Those words weren;t used but that is what they meant. oh and a Kibutz is a commune. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 19:01:06 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Kevin's Schedule (NJC) Here is my boy Kevin (the former drummer for Rockin Jake and now on the road with world renown Terrance Simien) schedule of shows coming to a town near you. Be sure to say hello if you like rockin zydeco dancing and passin a good time you will love this band. Kevin is even singing! OK that's scary but really.... January 23....Poe's/Richmond,VA " 24....Sullivan's/Fredericksburg,VA " 25....Village Underground/NYC " 26....Bergen community college/Paramus,NJ " 27....Zydeco Dance/Poughkeepsie,NY " 31....Mardi Gras Party Washington Hilton/Washington,DC February 9.....Mardi Gras Party/Devner,CO " 11-12....Harry O's Olympic and Mardi Gras Party/ Park City,UT March 9.........Clovis Comm. College/Clovis,NM April 21.......Houston Int'l Festival/Houston,TX April 27.......Arts is the Park/Beaufort,SC May 4..........NO Jazz Fest (2 performances) May 25........Mudbug Madness/Shreveport,LA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 19:01:53 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: First Joni of 02 California was the first thing that I heard. Paz on 1/2/02 8:17 PM, Catherine McKay at anima_rising@yahoo.ca wrote: > I have a confession to make. I haven't listened to > any Joni all year. > > > ______________________________________________________ > Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 00:55:03 -0000 From: "William Waddell" Subject: Chat Room Must have more tongues wagging in the Chat Room. Step right up, the show is about to begin. xxx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 19:13:34 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: NJC Book NJC ooooooooooo Terry one of my favorite books of all times. Allie Fox was such a wonderful yhero/anti-hero. Harrison Ford sort of did him justice in the movie too. I remember my mom sat next to him on a Sahsa flight to Belize/Honduras when he was making the movie. She said he was really nice and of course she swooned cause she thought he was hunky. I'll neveer forget the premise of bringing ice to the indians and the coke caps on the trail. Love Paz on 1/3/02 4:43 AM, TerryM2222@aol.com at TerryM2222@aol.com wrote: > The Mosquito Coast by Paul Theroux ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 20:10:19 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Deprivation Challenge! << To quote Kramer, "I'm out." >> To quote Deb who quoted Kramer and saying what we're not supposed to say, "Me Too" I got a copy of her '79 Shadows & Light concert at Pine Knob in Clarkston, MI and played it from start to finish. Sweet! Bob NP: The B-52's, "Party Out of Bounds" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 20:13:09 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings NJC << I won't be paying good money to see parts 2 and 3... >> What a contrast...my sisters & I were spellbound, and can't wait for the next installment...BUT I never read the books, so it's all fresh to me. I did have a roommate in college named Phil who we called "Philbo" because he was short and had very hairy feet. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 01:42:36 -0000 From: "Garret" Subject: first kiss I watched "the mirror has two faces" last night:-) I thought i was going to hate it! But no, i enjoyed it immensely! How fecking romantic it is!!! Well, Barbra Striesand's character is yattering on at one point near the start how she needs to hear Puccini during a kiss to know if it's the real thing; what i want to know is 1) What song/music would say it for you? 2)Was there a song playing when you got your first kiss? first kiss from current partner? 3)Anyone have Joni playing? and, 4) if you could have had Joni playing what would it have been? As for me: 1)Wuthering Heights by Kate Bush 2)No, and no current partner 3)see question 2 4)mmmm, ACOY from BSN probably; but then, i guess it depends on what kind of kiss you want doesn't it? GARRET (delirious from a looooong day trying write a STUPID essay) ps- i had labelled this as NJC, but took it off when i realised it could have JC?!?! I defer this one to the experts:-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 17:40:02 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: NJC If Joni became Jewish colin wrote: "I know you are joking but did you know that jews don't convert? According to a recent doc I saw they stopped converting eons ago and decide that you could only be born into the faith." this was because I'm afraid that's wrong, colin, and i'm 100% sure of it. Jews still convert, and conversion here is only winning more souls every day. On the other hand - when a jew converts to any other religioun - the jewish religioun says that he's still and will always remain a jew, no matter what he does. (while in, let's say, for muslems, if you dicide to become christian, you are officialy wiped off from being a muslem in the eyes of the muslam religioun) "Kibutz is a commune." Very true. At least that was the vision folks had back then. These days most Kibutz's (just say the word Kibutz's, folks, and tell me if that doesn't make you smile:)) have nothing to do with the commune ideal, and the younger generation left them for the city. Nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 21:00:35 EST From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: NJC Kibutz and city - STAS rewrite In a message dated 1/3/02 5:41:19 PM nuriel@wowmail.com writes: >Very true. At least that was the vision folks had back then. These days >most Kibutz's) have nothing to do with the commune ideal and the younger >generation left them for the city. the possibilities here... I came from the kibutz...out of the kibutz and down to the city... nuriel, are you up for rewriting STAS with a "kibutz/city" theme? could be quite interesting. couldn't resist, Mary K People hurry by so quickly Don't they hear the melodies In the chiming and the clicking And the laughing harmonies - - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 19:52:30 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: first kiss Interesting. 1. No music would tell me that. 2. having a real hard time remembering when my first kiss was. Oh, yeah. It was a girl. No music and pretty forgettable. 3. didn't even know who joni was then. 4. I would imagine that blue would be great lovemaking music. mack > I watched "the mirror has two faces" last night:-) I thought i was going to > hate it! But no, i enjoyed it immensely! How fecking romantic it is!!! > Well, Barbra Striesand's character is yattering on at one point near the > start how she needs to hear Puccini during a kiss to know if it's the real > thing; what i want to know is > 1) What song/music would say it for you? > 2)Was there a song playing when you got your first kiss? first kiss from > current partner? > 3)Anyone have Joni playing? > and, 4) if you could have had Joni playing what would it have been? > > As for me: > 1)Wuthering Heights by Kate Bush > 2)No, and no current partner > 3)see question 2 > 4)mmmm, ACOY from BSN probably; but then, i guess it depends on what kind of > kiss you want doesn't it? > GARRET (delirious from a looooong day trying write a STUPID essay) > > ps- i had labelled this as NJC, but took it off when i realised it could > have JC?!?! I defer this one to the experts:-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 02:17:28 -0000 From: "Garret" Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings I think i've posted about this before on JMDL, so i risk repeating myself:-) I'm a fan of the book, just finished reading it again, in fact. It's fair to say i really really love the book. I did not think the film weas perfect. Excellent yes, not perfect.It was for the most part visually stunning, atmospherically impressive and truly captivating. I am coming from the point of view of a fan, of course. Elijah *is* Frodo. McKellen is superb; apparently he was copying Tokiens own voice when playing Gandalf! and Christopher Lee, well now, i am so surprised. I saw him in the Gormenghast trilogy last year, and though he was wooden and purely awful! In this movie he was great. As for Aragorn- uttelry perfect! Galadriel was very surprising. Not at all what i had interpreted from the book. the movie interpretation of Galadriel is light years from my interpretation of her ( and frankly, i prefer the sad, forlorn, somber, reluctant Galadriel in my head to the scary, reluctant, scary one in the movie!). Jackson's vision of Middle Earth is perhaps as close to Tolkiens own vision as we'll ever see. This may not be perfect for some us, but still pretty close. There are some very funny moments, most especially due to Pip and Merry, of course. They have been reduced to clowns basically. The characters of Legolas and Gimli are reduced to lots of standing around with the odd line in the movie; gone are all those nuances that made them so loveable in the books- including, as Victor pointed out i think, their developing friendship. Boromirs death is sad, the audience sat in disbelief for that. But it was after Gandalfs death in Moria that noone moved!! (couldnt help feeling smug when a lot of people were like "he cant die" and "oh my god, what will they do without him " and "nah, he cant be dead!!" hehe). Tom Bombadil is not in this movie, as we knew before hand. I guess he isn't entirely relevant to the advancement of the story, but it is such a wonderful little chapter. The film kept all of the key features and characters from the book. The immense detail the novel indulges in, of course, had to be cut down some for a cinematic venture. If one had not read the books, ones understanding might have been a little marred. My sister (and yes, she *loved* it, hasnt read it) really had to concentrate at some points to keep it all straight in her head, not so much as to render much negativity on the film. i didn't have to concentrate to follow the endless stream of, what in Star Trek fandom could be called, "technobabble"- Rivendell, Balrog, Isengard, Lothlorien, Haldir, Palan'tir, Orc, Nazgul, Galadriel, Elrond etc etc etc, you know, all these strange words that assault the viewer. Detailed and important parts of the book are reduced to mere fleeting episodes in the movie, but this this isn't necesarily or entirely a bad thing, it is probably needed to maintain the pace of film.And we have to admit, that pace is required for a "blcokbuster". AT just under three hours, it was imperative for Peter Jackson to keep everything moving and interesting for the general public. And yes, he really succeeded. The major problem that i found with the movie was that it all felt very contrived; and very didactic. None of that letting the audience think for themselves crap!!!! i saw the movie twice, and my enjoyment was not at all marred by the fact that i had seen it already, in fact, some things seemed clearer to me the second time i saw the the film. and some things impressed me even more! overall, i had fun comparing my impressions of the book to the equivalent parts of the movie. I found it to be faithful and satisfying. a wonderful film based on an amazing book. Jackson is not ripping us off; he is not cheating us. Any disappointments i expressed here are probably inevitable considering my feelings for the book. I would highly recommend the movie to anyone. GARRET ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 21:05:20 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Chat now njc I don't remember how to get there! - --- Jamie Zubairi wrote: > Just to let people know I'm in the chat room > > If you're not there, that's ok > > Much Joni > > May peace break out ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 18:08:29 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: re - Jewish Joni Jimmy wrote: "if Joni became Jewish she might rewrite some of her songs: "The Rabbi sat in the airport bar, he was wearing his father's yarmulka" "He comes for Conversion" or how about "Yvette in Yiddish" " LOL!!! Yvette in Yiddish! Ha ha! That's amazing, Jimmy! Believe me - you realy DO NOT want me to get started! That was great, Jimmy, thanks!!!:) Nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 18:52:30 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings - J.R.R.'s birthday (NJC) Victor, You must surely be our premier Tolkein expert! I have not read the books since the late 60s so maybe I will not be so disappointed when I see the film. I don't see how anyone could ever perfectly translate the books to film - they are too magical. Did you know that today is Tolkein's birthday? They are raising a round the world toast at this link: http://www.tolkiensociety.org/toast/index.html I also found these to be interesting - Short bio which describes how he came to make up his own languages: http://www.users.wineasy.se/aragorn/fantasy/tolkien/about/ Complete list of allusions to Tolkein in Led Zeppelin's songs ;-D http://www.auburn.edu/~speedhe/allusions.html Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 22:06:17 EST From: TerryM2222@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Book NJC Michael, Believe it or not, I never saw the movie! Was it as good as the book? Terry << ooooooooooo Terry one of my favorite books of all times. Allie Fox was such a wonderful yhero/anti-hero. Harrison Ford sort of did him justice in the movie too. I remember my mom sat next to him on a Sahsa flight to Belize/Honduras when he was making the movie. She said he was really nice and of course she swooned cause she thought he was hunky. I'll neveer forget the premise of bringing ice to the indians and the coke caps on the trail. >> www.addconsults.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 22:08:03 -0500 From: terrym2222@aol.com Subject: Musical Joni Card Hi! terrym2222@aol.com just sent you a music greeting from www.beatgreets.com! To view your music greeting, simply click here: http://www.beatgreets.com/view.pd?i=83237471&m=3196&rr=y&source=bgbma999 If your e-mail doesn't recognize the above address as a link, simply copy and paste it in your browser address window. If you have any comments or if you're freaking out because you can't get the music greeting to work, visit our Help pages at http://www.beatgreets.com/customer/emailus.pd. Your Friends at www.beatgreets.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 22:42:28 EST From: Fauchja@aol.com Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings - J.R.R.'s birthday (NJC) And, in addition to JRR Tolkein, it's Stephen Stills' George Martin's, Victoria Principal's, Mel Gibson's birthday! Back to Lurkdom, Fauchja ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 19:48:44 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: NJC If Joni became Jewish A Jewish E-mail: "Begin worrying. Details to follow." Have a nice day everyone, Nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 21:59:46 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: NJC Book NJC Mixed reviews. It was great to see the land come alive seeing how it was about my country, but the books always hold more vision than one can see in movies cause your brain's cinematography always works better. I think that's why some things that happen in real life are better left to memory than actual recordings or video. Your brains processor is better left to it's own devices. Paz on 1/3/02 7:06 PM, TerryM2222@aol.com at TerryM2222@aol.com wrote: > Michael, > > Believe it or not, I never saw the movie! Was it as good as the book? > > Terry > > << ooooooooooo Terry one of my favorite books of all times. Allie Fox was such > a wonderful yhero/anti-hero. Harrison Ford sort of did him justice in the > movie too. I remember my mom sat next to him on a Sahsa flight to > Belize/Honduras when he was making the movie. She said he was really nice > and of course she swooned cause she thought he was hunky. I'll neveer forget > the premise of bringing ice to the indians and the coke caps on the trail. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 21:54:19 -0600 From: "Steve Polifka" Subject: NJC no Joni in 2002 Hi Catherine and Willy- and the rest- I must confess that I, too, have not heard a single Joni Mitchell song by her or anyone else since Sunday evening. I can hold off for a long time. (I hear her in my head alot...) And yes, I've told my therapist ;-) So this means I can't do any of her stuff when I rehearse? Or are we talking strictly listening to her CD's? Steve NPIMH: Bob's Elephant trumpets during the Ganja Line... Lol, Bob, I still crack up! (Hangin' on your boom boom pachyderm...) (hee hee) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 22:56:49 EST From: Abbymusique@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #5 In reference to Fauchja saying that except for Cool Water and Dancing Clown, the rest of "Chalkmark in a Rainstorm" leaves you cold, are you saying you like all of the CD except those two tracks, or you dislike most of the CD? In any case, that's one of my favorites by her, and I don't understand why people knock Cool Water. I love her version of that song. I've steadily built up my collection of her CD's over the years, and my latest purchase of two years ago was Don Juan's Reckless Daughter. I love the songs on there, especially Paprika Plains, Talk to Me, Otis and Marlena, and The Silky Veils of Ardor. Now I'm working on her live albums. It's neat to see so many fans, because I went through this stage where I thought I was her one and only true fan, and nobody appreciated her but me. Silly, I know, but when you find a jewel, sometimes you want to hoard it to yourself. Now I'm older, and I realize that she's a human being with a special gift that she shared with the world. All of us should share our gifts too, whatever they may be. Joni taught me that more than anything. Abbymusique ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 17:05:25 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings (NJC) Kakki wrote: > You must surely be our premier Tolkein expert! I have not read the books > since the late 60s so maybe I will not be so disappointed when I see the > film. I don't see how anyone could ever perfectly translate the books to > film - they are too magical. Coming out of lurkdom to defend my fellow-countrymen, since LOTR was essentially a Kiwi project! I haven't seen the film yet - the queues here have been ridiculous! And despite several attempts, I've never managed to make it all the way through the books, since I get bored about 2/3 of the way through - and I usually read voraciously! I read Fried Green Tomatoes recently, in one sitting. I'll pick up on Kakki's point though, and ask if anyone can name a movie that has COMPLETELY captured the essence of a novel of this length? Any adaptation to the screen leaves something lacking, it's just inevitable between the two forms. Either the characters lack development, or some "vital" scenes are lacking, to make room for more important story development. To fully capture the entire book, I think you'd need a 10-20 hour movie, which just isn't going to happen. Peter Jackson is a Tolkein fan, but he's primarily a film-maker, and he still wants a "successful" movie. Probably a couple of the best adaptations I've seen in recent years have been Dolores Claiborne, and The Shawshank Redemption - interestingly, both works by Stephen King. Admittedly The Shawshank Redemption (or to give it it's correct title - Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption) is a novella, and therefore shorter to begin with, and some liberties were taken. But the main "essence" was there in both films. I'd be interested if anyone CAN name a movie that does COMPLETE justice to the written form! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 17:08:06 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Joni in 2002 I only lasted one hour, I'm afraid. Joni was in the car stereo as I was driving back home from my New Year's Eve celebrations, at about 1am, January 1st! I can't remember all the songs that played, but Night Ride Home was there, and definitely appropriate! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 23:14:30 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings (NJC) In a message dated 1/3/02 11:06:34 PM, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << I'd be interested if anyone CAN name a movie that does COMPLETE justice to the written form! >> I don't know about 'COMPLETE justice', Hell, but for me, "Being There" and "The Godfather" are the only two books that immediately come to mind as having been made into films that are as good or better than their sources. XO, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 23:19:48 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC no Joni in 2002 - --- Steve Polifka wrote: > Hi Catherine and Willy- and the rest- > I must confess that I, too, have not heard a > single Joni Mitchell song > by her or anyone else since Sunday evening. I can > hold off for a long time. > (I hear her in my head alot...) And yes, I've told > my therapist ;-) > So this means I can't do any of her stuff when I > rehearse? > Or are we talking strictly listening to her CD's? OK, I broke. I played "Cold blue steel and sweet fire" on the guitar tonight, but still haven't listened to Joni singing Joni. Does that count? ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 23:23:59 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni in 2002 - --- hell wrote: > I only lasted one hour, I'm afraid. Joni was in the > car stereo as I was > driving back home from my New Year's Eve > celebrations, at about 1am, January > 1st! I can't remember all the songs that played, > but Night Ride Home was > there, and definitely appropriate! > OK, I've also heard Joni in my head, but still haven't actually listened to her. Just about every night or early, cold, dark morning when I go out to take the dog for her walk, and I look up and see stars, I can't help but hear, "I stepped outside to breathe the air and stare up at the stars". And New Year's Day, for some reason, I also heard (in my head) "Night ride home." ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 23:35:12 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings (NJC) waytoblu@mindspring.com wrote: > > When you have read something around a dozen times and the > characters are so vivid in your imagination, I think most any > attempt to portray them on a live screen is going to seem > lacking. I know these characters too well...every little piece of > dialogue that illuminates some facet of their personality. I think you're right, Victor. I've read the books only once and that was at least 15 years ago, so I don't remember all the details and could more easily take the movie on its own terms. I think it's a magnificent film, mostly because of the visuals and the music. In that context, Enya sounded great to me rather than her usual (to me) annoyingly fuzzy sound. It did surprise me that the movie was such an action feature rather than the magical, philosophical and character-driven story I remember (maybe only because that's what most appealed to me when I was reading; there must have been a lot of action in the books too). The movie seemed like a boy's adventure story, with the few female characters being completely unreal; the boys/men had all the important roles and the only genuine feelings expressed were between them, so with all that "boyness" going on, I felt a little left out. I don't recall getting that feeling from the books. The movie also seemed like the set-up for the movies to follow. Leaving the theater I imagined how good it will be to have the three movies all available on DVD and be able to see them together as one full story, so I'm already looking forward to the second installment and hoping it will fill in some of what was lacking in this first one. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 23:27:24 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC Book NJC - --- Michael Paz wrote: > ... the books always hold more > vision than one can see in > movies cause your brain's cinematography always > works better. I think that's > why some things that happen in real life are better > left to memory than > actual recordings or video. Your brains processor is > better left to it's own > devices. I agree. Anything I've read in a book is a lot scarier than its film version. And films that hint at things but don't show you everything scare me a lot more than the blood-and-gore kind. One movie that scared me like crazy when I was a kid was the one with Deborah Kerr based on "The turn of the screw". It was filmed in black and white (or maybe we still had a BW TV at the time) and they never actually showed you much, but it was eerie (even though I never could stand Deborah Kerr.) ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 23:29:44 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #5 - --- Abbymusique@aol.com wrote: > It's neat to > see so many fans, because I > went through this stage where I thought I was her > one and only true fan, and > nobody appreciated her but me. Silly, I know, but > when you find a jewel, > sometimes you want to hoard it to yourself. That's exactly how I felt about Joni for a long time - I just didn't think there was *anyone* out there who had the same appreciation as I did! (DJRD is one of my favourites too.) ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 0:43:12 -0800 From: "Johnson Victor" Subject: RE: joni and no listen to her njc I haven't listened to Joni yet this year because I read Nuriel's post and now I can't decide which song to start with! Though I did hear Emily Saliers singing "River" today so I've heard a Joni cover. Victor in a somewhat less snowy Athens though plenty of snowmen still around "Stay off the highway, the word is they're not too safe..." REM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 0:59:27 -0800 From: "Johnson Victor" Subject: Re: NJC + Woody Allen One of the first ones I ever saw was "Purple Rose of Cairo". We actually watched it for my Philosophy of Religion class at college. So romantic and sad...More recently I really enjoyed "Sweet and Lowdown". I especially liked the actress who played Hattie, the deaf girl who falls in love with Sean Penn. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 00:08:41 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: NJC + Woody Allen wow Victor. I had been reading the Woody posts and didn't post because I couldn't think of any of his movies that I necessarily cared for. Also, I have mixed feelings about his personal behavior but thought, "hey, who am I to judge anyone else" so just left it at that. Forgot about Rose. I love that movie. thought it was great. So romantic. Find Jeff Daniels marginally talented but loved him in that movie. along with Dianne Wiest. Does it get any better than Dianne Wiest? I find the Academy Awards are just a popularity contest, kind of like cheerleader in high school, or which studio spends the most money. Dianne Wiest can act. How about Independence Day. She was out of this world. As one of the hookers in Rose she was fantastic. Have always identified with hookers or at least understood them in a way. In some respect, they are viewed, by society, much like we homosexuals, deserving or not. Don't know if I approve of selling of one's body or not, but what business is it of mine. NOne. "there's a lot to be said for the working girl"-Missy mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnson Victor" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 2:59 AM Subject: Re: NJC + Woody Allen > One of the first ones I ever saw was "Purple Rose of Cairo". We actually > watched it for my Philosophy of Religion class at college. So romantic and > sad...More recently I really enjoyed "Sweet and Lowdown". I especially > liked the actress who played Hattie, the deaf girl who falls in love with > Sean Penn. > > Victor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 22:20:29 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings (NJC) Hell, I was wondering when we'd hear the Kiwi defense! ;-) Not to fret - Peter Jackson has been highly lauded here in many reviews. I can't wait to see it. I've racked my brains but can't think of any film that is as perfect as the book. Didn't read the books but happen to think that Shawshank Redemption and Fried Green Tomato(e)s were two of the most perfect films I've ever seen. Kakki NP: Love - Live at Fillmore West 11/23/70 (thanks SP!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 22:36:30 -0800 From: Rick and Susan Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings (NJC) > From: Murphycopy@aol.com > I don't know about 'COMPLETE justice', Hell, but for me, "Being There" and > "The Godfather" are the only two books that immediately come to mind as > having been made into films that are as good or better than their sources. I would add The English Patient to this list. Ranger Rick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:44:55 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: Re: NJC If Joni became Jewish hi >>jimmy wrote >>"He comes for Conversion" shouldnt that be "he comes for circumcision" ?? :-) ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:52:31 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: today's report NJC - wally hi wally >>players, all the computer supplies and, more important yet, all the imported >>stuff that we depended on after our national industry was cannibalized by >>the overvalued peso have vanished from the store shelves. everybody is >>holding on to whatever tangible assets he or she has: now that our currency >>has finally begun its way to the twilight zone, a cd or a washing machine >>has become a precious object. please let us know if we can put together some form of "care packages" of items which you may find yourself needing... (ak-47's are still available here at really, really good prices :-) regards ron ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #6 *************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?