From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #616 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, December 30 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 616 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: December 29 [les@jmdl.com] Today's Articles: December 29 [les@jmdl.com] 6:40 am njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Fine tuning (a little JC + some Nick Drake news) ["Paul Castle" ] Re: anyone...NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: I'm outta here! :o( [Jerry Notaro ] Re: I'm outta here! :o( [Murphycopy@aol.com] NJC [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: NJC ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: I hate christmas NJC [colin ] Re: I hate christmas NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: I hate christmas NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: 6:40 am njc [Randy Remote ] Re: I hate christmas NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: I hate christmas NJC ["Johnson Victor" ] Re: I hate christmas NJC ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: I hate christmas NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Joni Content NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] joni and saskatoon celebrities [shane ] Re: I hate christmas NJC [Catherine McKay ] The Decision-njc ["Barbara L" ] Re: I hate christmas NJC [Rick and Susan ] Re: The Decision-njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: I hate christmas NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: recipes NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: I hate christmas NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 03:54:47 -0500 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: December 29 On December 29 in Joni Mitchell History: 1985: Joni and Larry Klein are in London and are interviewed by Tony Hale of Capitol 95.8 FM for the "Rock Master Class". More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/851229rmc.cfm - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 03:54:47 -0500 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: December 29 On December 29 this article was published: 1985: "Rock Master Class Interview" - Capitol 95.8FM (Interview - Audio Transcription) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/851229rmc.cfm - ------------------------ http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 07:09:30 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: 6:40 am njc violence again. i was celebrating my birthday at a friend's house, one block away from the congress building. all of us started feeling out of breath; our eyes were very irritated and bloodshot. i recognized the smell in the air: tear gas. we turned on the tv. an impromptu rally had gathered in front of the congress to denounce political corruption. protesters clashed with the police and they set fire to the congress lobby. the tear gas was coming through the apartment's windows. we closed the windows and placed some wet rags under doors and window panes to stop the gas. we couldn't get out of the building and we couldn't stay in the apartment. we went up to the roof. we put on wet towels on our faces to be able to breath. we could see the flames. it all happened a few hours ago, during my birthday party. when the crowd was dispersed and we could finally go out in the streets, we went to the congress and looked at the damage, the burned furniture, deserted black mounds in the middle of the boulevards. a third currency will be issued next week. this currency will not be convertible into dollars and will devaluate daily. our dollar deposits will be returned in this new currency: monopoly money. we can't buy foreign currency so we can't leave the country. our credit cards are not accepted abroad. we can pay for plane tickets only in cash but -- surprise, surprise -- we don't have cash. the banks have our cash. the banks will not give us cash. a macabre carousel. i am a prisoner now. i am living in cuba, for all i know. i work hour after hour, day after day. my eyesight is going, my back burns with pain. all i get for my work is checks that i will deposit in my bank account and that will be turned into worthless pieces of paper next week. the bank holiday has gone on for more than a week now. i can't cash my checks. i can only work and get these little checks and look at them and see how my livelihood vanishes. it is a very perverse game. you work, you get the check, you deposit the check, you are a little poorer, you are a little closer to homelessness. then you go back to work. every new day that i can still be online is a miracle. when our money is finally converted into the new useless currency, most companies will leave the country. internet will be a memory. we will regress 30 years. inexorably, i too will disappear. i will be fenced in by poverty. i want to leave a record of these last days, not because i think that i deserve to be remembered but because i believe that telling my story until the last minute is a way of fighting. i will be engulfed by oblivion, it can't be helped. but i will talking to you when i go. wally ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 11:54:39 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Fine tuning (a little JC + some Nick Drake news) If you're still collecting resources for The Wanderer website at jmdl.com, Sue, here's another good one I've just found on Warren Allen's website at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/WarrenAllen/tunings.htm - - an interesting selection of tunings and who uses them - from Nick Drake's Dsus4 and Gadd9, Ledward Kaapana's Hawaiian slack key 'wahine tuning' (Gmaj7), Cheryl Wheeler's Asus4 ('If It Were Up To Me'), Tom Rush's Open B (for 'Urge for Going', he thinks), what he calls 'Bruce Palmer modal tuning' (used by Steven Stills - on Suite: Judy Blue Eyes) and many many more (including Joni's Am7add9 for 'Help Me'). Talking of Nick Drake, I hear his sister (actress Gabrielle Drake) is currently working with Cally, John Wood and Joe Boyd on a new CD of material culled from Nick's home tapes and other sources (tentatively called 'Family Tree') which they are aiming to release in the coming year - see http://www.robinfrederick.com/cally.html Happy new year, all PaulC np In My Dreams - David Crosby (live) - thanks so much K ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 07:57:13 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: I hate christmas NJC In a message dated 12/29/01 1:18:48 AM, TimandMaryPowers@aol.com writes: << the truth is (and aren't we supposed to admit the truth, or something like that?) I hate christmas. >> Dear Mary, I wish I had the option here of choosing a much larger font size to say this: ME TOO! When I think of my childhood Christmases, the memories all have yellow and black CRIME SCENE tapes around them. Idyllic stories such as Mark's remembrances of Christmas with his family at his grandparents' house are as foreign to me as tales from a Mongolian ger. What I remember mostly is a lot of tension and yelling. I learned that the whole Santa Claus bit was a lie from my first-grade pal, Brian Mac Isaac, while waiting in line to talk to Santa. I was six years old and heartbroken. Besides souring Christmas forever, the news made me permanently skeptical of authority. Yet even the most well-meaning parents continue to deceive their children with the Santa lie to this day, setting their poor little hearts up for major disappointment at some later date. A holiday that should be so simple -- a celebration of the birth of a poor little boy who would grow up to change the world with his message of faith, love and peace -- has turned into a greedy free-for-all for children and adults alike. I have tried my entire life to enjoy Christmas, but I don't. I really have given it my best shot year after year, but it is difficult for me to love anything that is so full of lies and good intentions gone bad. And to add further insult to injury, anyone who feels the way we do about Christmas, Mary, is forced every year to remain silent throughout the entire glorious frigging season out of fear of being labeled a Grinch or a Scrooge. I am so glad it's all over because now I can say what I have been holding in since Halloween: CHRISTMAS SUCKS! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 14:34:04 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Sign of the times (NJC) Sign in the window of a camping supplies shop in Brixton (South London) - "Now is the discount of our winter tents" PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 10:27:26 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: anyone...NJC colin wrote: > ...heard from Vince? Yes. He is doing better. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 10:30:40 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: I'm outta here! :o( Rachael DeRoest wrote: > Since i have just spent the last hour sifting through tons of emails that were just a bunch of petty bickering over stupid stuff...I am just gonna take that as a sign and maybe hit the road. I love me some Joni but i don't think i am learning anything by sticking around reading this BS. > Maybe i will come back when you guys get things strightened out a little better. > MAny thanks to those who helped me out! > > LOTS O LUVS > Rachael Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Bye. Jerry np: Bruce Murdoch : Rompin' Rovin" Days ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 11:08:47 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: I'm outta here! :o( Rachael DeRoest wrote: << i have just spent the last hour sifting through tons of emails that were just a bunch of petty bickering over stupid stuff... >> I *knew* I wasn't getting all my JMDL mail. Damn that AOL! I'll have to check out the archives to see what I've been missing. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: 29 Dec 2001 08:57:19 -0800 From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: NJC I think the NJC tag works just fine EXCEPT... I sometimes put NJC on private email to people who don't even know what the JMDL is... Does anyone else do that??? lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 11:00:45 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: NJC Yes, Anne. Also, at work it has been so engrained into us to knock on doors before we enter patients rooms that I often knock on the door to go outside or to the restroom. mack I think the NJC tag works just fine > > EXCEPT... > > I sometimes put NJC on private email to people who don't even know what the JMDL is... > > Does anyone else do that??? > > lots of love > Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 18:23:00 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: I hate christmas NJC > I have tried my entire life to enjoy Christmas, but I don't. I really have > given it my best shot year after year, but it is difficult for me to love > anything that is so full of lies and good intentions gone bad. John and I just had our best Xmas ever. No presents, no parties, no guests, no booze, no piles of food. Just us and the dogs. It has been wondeful. We both hate Xmas for similar reasons to you Bob and Mary. Now we just don't get sucked in. It was lovely and peaceful and guilt free. I know I always felt bad for not thinking this was a great holiday. It was one I looked forward to with dread. Not any more. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 14:43:19 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: I hate christmas NJC In a message dated 12/29/2001 7:58:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, Murphycopy@aol.com writes: <> What's all this fuss about Christmas socks? Sure we don't always get everything we want for Christmas gifts. We can't always get a new computer game or a bicycle. I think socks are a wonderful gift, and there's nothing wrong with a tie either...... OHHHHH, I thought we were talking about Christmas SOCKS! Never mind :~D bye bye, Emily Latila ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 11:51:43 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: I hate christmas NJC Christmas itself is okay, I guess, but I hate the music. So simplistic and cloying, and they start hitting you with it right after halloween. That's one sixth of the year hearing this awful noise. Peace on earth indeed. The advertising is nauseating, too. Then there's all the sugar, hard to resist, bad for the health. Then there's all the waste...streets lined with dead trees, all the useless wrapping paper...these are traditions that need to go. Bah, RR TimandMaryPowers@aol.com wrote: > hello, > > I want to apologize for being somewhat cranky lately. the truth is (and > aren't we supposed to admit the truth, or something like that?) I hate > christmas. I have hated christmas for a long time. every year I expect it > to be different. hah! every year, it is the same old stressful thing and > then I get sick. in the past it was more severe (flu or bronchitis or > pneumonia) now it's down to a really bad cold. yuck. this year, I had my > stress quota, then I got sick and was miserable for the last 3 or 4 days. > hoping all the bad stuff is over for now. > > anybody else out there hate christmas? thinking of starting next year's > travel plans now, > > Mary K > > seriously, I like christmas music, and exchanging gifts is nice, but > everything else about it, I hate. seeing family - stressful. bad memories > of xmases past. too many things that can't be said or done. bah humbug! if > you love the holiday, great and more power to you! I'm just not fooling > myself any more. > > People hurry by so quickly > Don't they hear the melodies > In the chiming and the clicking > And the laughing harmonies > - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 11:56:16 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: 6:40 am njc Wally- this is a distressing post... all I can say is...hold on! The negativity of it all may pass, you may come out the other side looking back on it all, and glad you didn't give in.... People have survived all kinds of things, upheaval, health challanges, wars...you have to give it your best shot. When the cleanup and restoration comes around, they will need all the good people they can get.... or if you wait you may get the opportunity to relocate... it's darkest before the dawn sometimes...don't give up... RR Wally Kairuz wrote: > violence again. > > i was celebrating my birthday at a friend's house, one block away from the > congress building. all of us started feeling out of breath; our eyes were > very irritated and bloodshot. i recognized the smell in the air: tear gas. > we turned on the tv. an impromptu rally had gathered in front of the > congress to denounce political corruption. protesters clashed with the > police and they set fire to the congress lobby. the tear gas was coming > through the apartment's windows. we closed the windows and placed some wet > rags under doors and window panes to stop the gas. we couldn't get out of > the building and we couldn't stay in the apartment. we went up to the roof. > we put on wet towels on our faces to be able to breath. we could see the > flames. it all happened a few hours ago, during my birthday party. > when the crowd was dispersed and we could finally go out in the streets, we > went to the congress and looked at the damage, the burned furniture, > deserted black mounds in the middle of the boulevards. > > a third currency will be issued next week. this currency will not be > convertible into dollars and will devaluate daily. our dollar deposits will > be returned in this new currency: monopoly money. we can't buy foreign > currency so we can't leave the country. our credit cards are not accepted > abroad. we can pay for plane tickets only in cash but -- surprise, > surprise -- we don't have cash. the banks have our cash. the banks will not > give us cash. a macabre carousel. > > i am a prisoner now. i am living in cuba, for all i know. i work hour after > hour, day after day. my eyesight is going, my back burns with pain. all i > get for my work is checks that i will deposit in my bank account and that > will be turned into worthless pieces of paper next week. the bank holiday > has gone on for more than a week now. i can't cash my checks. i can only > work and get these little checks and look at them and see how my livelihood > vanishes. it is a very perverse game. you work, you get the check, you > deposit the check, you are a little poorer, you are a little closer to > homelessness. then you go back to work. > > every new day that i can still be online is a miracle. when our money is > finally converted into the new useless currency, most companies will leave > the country. internet will be a memory. we will regress 30 years. > inexorably, i too will disappear. i will be fenced in by poverty. > > i want to leave a record of these last days, not because i think that i > deserve to be remembered but because i believe that telling my story until > the last minute is a way of fighting. i will be engulfed by oblivion, it > can't be helped. but i will talking to you when i go. > > wally ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 12:13:26 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: I hate christmas NJC Mary K, I am very curious about your post......when you wrote.."But it is difficult for me to love anything that is so full of lies and good intentions gone bad." Do you mean the message of Christ's Mass;a saviour was born and lived among us and died so we all could have eternal life. (I'm strictly coming from a strict Catholic/Christian perspective here) Or is your disdain more personal? Hate is a very strong word and I'm pondering your position/feelings. Bree > > I have tried my entire life to enjoy Christmas, but I don't. I really >have > > given it my best shot year after year, but it is difficult for me to >love > > anything that is so full of lies and good intentions gone bad. > >John and I just had our best Xmas ever. No presents, no parties, no guests, >no >booze, no piles of food. Just us and the dogs. It has been wondeful. We >both hate >Xmas for similar reasons to you Bob and Mary. Now we just don't get sucked >in. It >was lovely and peaceful and guilt free. I know I always felt bad for not >thinking >this was a great holiday. It was one I looked forward to with dread. Not >any >more. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 15:16:50 -0800 From: "Johnson Victor" Subject: Re: I hate christmas NJC > OHHHHH, I thought we were talking about Christmas SOCKS! Never mind :~D You're not a house elf, are you? I hear they like getting socks for Christmas, especially dirty old used ones...I've got a few lying around. Harry Potter - --- Johnson Victor - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com - --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 14:26:52 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: I hate christmas NJC I hate it too and I mean hate it. We were not taught that it has any kind of religious meaning. As a matter of fact we were taught that it has none and that is strictly a meaning given to the holiday by men themselves and that we should celebrate the death and resurrection of Christ so that our sins might be taken away, instead of a birthdate; that no one has any idea of anyway and even if they did we should celebrate the birth of Christ everyday. Christmas to me is a time of pressure. Pressure to buy gifts that I cannot afford to buy and don't want to buy. I would much rather give gifts when I feel like giving them instead of this silly celebration every year when we Americans give each other gifts. Ludicrous. Children don't understand and so I must spend my money on that each year. I do hate it. I hate the parties, the carrying on about it each year, etc. Complete waste of my time and my money. Mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bree Mcdonough" To: ; Cc: ; Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 2:13 PM Subject: Re: I hate christmas NJC > Mary K, I am very curious about your post......when you wrote.."But it is > difficult for me to love anything that is so full of lies and good > intentions gone bad." > > Do you mean the message of Christ's Mass;a saviour was born and lived among > us and died so we all could have eternal life. (I'm strictly coming from a > strict Catholic/Christian perspective here) Or is your disdain more > personal? Hate is a very strong word and I'm pondering your > position/feelings. > > Bree > > > > > I have tried my entire life to enjoy Christmas, but I don't. I really > >have > > > given it my best shot year after year, but it is difficult for me to > >love > > > anything that is so full of lies and good intentions gone bad. > > > >John and I just had our best Xmas ever. No presents, no parties, no guests, > >no > >booze, no piles of food. Just us and the dogs. It has been wondeful. We > >both hate > >Xmas for similar reasons to you Bob and Mary. Now we just don't get sucked > >in. It > >was lovely and peaceful and guilt free. I know I always felt bad for not > >thinking > >this was a great holiday. It was one I looked forward to with dread. Not > >any > >more. > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 15:51:51 EST From: WARREN901@aol.com Subject: ONLY JONI-DIGEST FRACAS hello all...it has been a few days since my last post. i thought i should sit back and just soak in the cacophony of posts which have been the digest recently. i can only say WHEW !!!!! i would like to take this opportunity to express my joy at finding this joni community in cyber space , i would also like to express my appreciation for the recent dissussion of " don't interrupt the sorrow, " i've been on a HOSL tear ever since. ( needless to say i've loved it ! ) although my excitement has been a little dampened by the tone of some of the posts of late, i fully intend to stick around and glean all the joni info i can ! ( i do hope some off the folks who seemed to be disenchanted will stick around too ! ) although i'm new to the internet, i've been on a journey with joni for the past 31 years . i find there is always something new to learn and look forward to the knowledge. i am a member of the only joni-digest , i signed up for it because the site suggested it for new members. ( less to sort through. ) i've got a novel suggestion...lets all read the lyrics to a wonderful song called " borderline " and truly see what joni thinks about these types of situations. well enough of my humble opinion, i will now spin this out into the web and let it stick where it may. i thank all for their input, peace be to youl... in joni, warren keith p.s. rachael, do stick around...i was looking forward to the joy of your discoveries on the joni journey ! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 14:30:11 -0800 (PST) From: Tyler Hewitt Subject: Joni Content NJC Some thoughts about recent posts regarding Joni content: I'm on several of these lists, and what I've found is that they all develop unique 'personalities'. i think that's a good thing. Actually, I find it really interesting as well. Some sociologist should study why e-mail lists develop the way they do. Drifting away from the organizing topic is a big part of many of these lists. This arrives organically, I think, and is one of the things that makes these lists an interesting phenomena. Some lists allow this drifting, others don't. Depends on who's in charge of the list and the people subscribed to it. To me, joining an e-mail list is like making a new friend. Sometimes, you hit it off right away. Other times, you start out kind of lukewarm about it, but feelings grow stronger over time. And yes, there's occasions where once positive feelings turn sour over time or due to a specific incident. I'm glad that people find this list fun and useful. I'm also glad that others have realized that the list isnt for them and unsubscribe. Better they leave and go do what makes them happy then stay and make themselves and everyone else miserable. What do you think? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 18:01:45 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: I hate christmas NJC In a message dated 12/29/01 2:49:48 PM, guitarzan@saber.net writes: << The advertising is nauseating, too. >> In my attempt to minimize Christmas I have had my TV turned off since Halloween, so I was able to skip a lot of the commercial side of Christmas this year. (That really helped take some of the sting out of the ol' Yuletide.) Also, I went to one work-related Christmas party, and one party given by friends in Boston. Both were a lot of fun. Plus one Christmas Eve dinner, one Christmas day dinner. Both were delicious, and I enjoyed everyone's company. End of story. Like Colin, I think I am finding ways to cope with this time of year. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 17:56:14 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Joni Content NJC Very,very well put,Tyler! I think you hit the mark. I would only add that it depends too what is going on in someone's life,all the variables that entails. I had posted recently that when I first signed on I wanted JONI, JONI and more JONI. It bothered me some with all the inside jokes and slaps on the back etc. My station in life when I joined was a pathetic one i.e. depressed,miserable,sulking,blank. Now I'm a happy blank! Just kidding. And I want to know and I'm interested in EVERYONE'S JONI thoughts as well as NON-JONI thoughts on this list. And for people that just want to case-study her you have the database with all those wonderful articles on pure JONI. Bree >To me, joining an e-mail list is like making a new >friend. Sometimes, you hit it off right away. Other >times, you start out kind of lukewarm about it, but >feelings grow stronger over time. And yes, there's >occasions where once positive feelings turn sour over >time or due to a specific incident. > >I'm glad that people find this list fun and useful. >I'm also glad that others have realized that the list >isnt for them and unsubscribe. Better they leave and >go do what makes them happy then stay and make >themselves and everyone else miserable. > >What do you think? >Send your FREE holiday greetings online! >http://greetings.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 19:04:35 -0700 From: shane Subject: joni and saskatoon celebrities hoping y'all have a smokin' new years' eve (i know joni will!) and a great new year... saskatoon public library has a cute page with a dandy and smart looking joni photo: http://www.publib.saskatoon.sk.ca/LHCelebrities.html enjoy, shane ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 22:28:30 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: I hate christmas NJC - --- TimandMaryPowers@aol.com wrote: > hello, > > I want to apologize for being somewhat cranky > lately. the truth is (and > aren't we supposed to admit the truth, or something > like that?) I hate > christmas. I have hated christmas for a long time. I know exactly what you mean. Christmas seems to promise so much and deliver so little. We get so invested in it emotionally from our earliest days that we continue to expect wonderful things of it year after year, despite whatever disappointments may come. Disappointments of family fights, of marriage breakups, of deaths in the family, of minor things that are ultimately unimportant but that take on so much more significance at this time. We get sucked in by the advertising and hype despite trying to remain immune to it. I hate the materialism of it - the idea that how much you spend is directly proportional to how much you care for someone. I'd like to dispense with the gift-giving entirely. This isn't easy to do when you have children - fortunately for me, I only have two. And years ago, my sisters and brother and I gave up on the idea of buying presents for everyone - it simply isn't possible, nor is it necessary. When my kids get a bit older, I want to do something really useful for Christmas, to help out people who have less than I do. Maybe visit people in hospitals or nursing homes. Or feeding people at hostels. And yet, doing this only at Christmas or major events seems kind of shallow. My christmas this year actually turned out not too badly, despite starting off not too well. The moment my ex had arrived, I wanted to throw his ass out (and the rest of him too!) He immediately started whining and griping and complaining about what a mess the house was in (guess what, pal - you don't live here anymore, so go clean up your own mess before you bitch about mine!) However, I managed to avoid him as much as possible, the meal turned out well (I love Christmas food, but am not fond of anything domestic - I get halfway through preparing a meal and I get fed up with it!) I got rid of shithead as soon as I could, but would prefer that he lived several thousand miles away from me, rather than in the same city (hmm, perhaps that could be arranged...) I know my sisters feel the same way I do - we usually call each other on Christmas and wish each other a Merry Fucking Christmas. I'm not sure how I feel about the Santa Claus thing. The idea of Santa Claus is great, if it's about the spirit of giving (but not necessarily gifts!) but it has become such a farce and so commercialized and every little kid is doomed to disappointment when they find out there's no such thing, or (worse) when they don't get what they really wanted for Christmas. As a child, I was such a goof that I never told anyone what I wanted because I figured Santa Claus would/should *know* so, of course, I never got what I wanted for Christmas, but some of us are so un-clued-in that it still takes us quite a few disappointments to figure it out (which probably explains my staying in a crappy marriage for more than 20 years). (Besides which, even if I had told the whole world, how many people do you know that find a real live horse under their tree Christmas morning? Some of us really do set ourselves up for the fall, don't we?) So, I want a quiet and simple Christmas and it seems, as years go by, that that is more likely to happen. My family (that is, my sisters, brother and I) have drifted more apart since our parents died, and we all have families of our own. I would like to drift very far apart from the ex, except that he keeps on hanging around, trying to do things "as a family" (speaking of un-clued-in), so that I have to be extremely blunt and nasty with him telling him he's free to do things with the kids but I don't want to be there (and he still doesn't get it - anyone got a sledge hammer?) I suppose it's part of midlife crisis. One of these days, it'll all pass and maybe Christmas will be simple again. As far as Christmas music goes, I love some of it, hate some of it - most of what I hate is the stuff that you hear in every shopping mall and elevator from Nov 1 on, way too cloying and overdone. Still, there's some lovely stuff out there and fortunately, as of December 26, it usually disappears for another ten months! ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 03:38:20 +0000 From: "Barbara L" Subject: The Decision-njc I grew up on Joni and she really saved my life in some very "troubled child" times. I am here listening to NRH, loving it and happy to be alive. Wanted to share with you all something I wrote a while back. (I usually lurk) Wishing you and yours a warm and happy holiday, Barbara The Decision Composed on September 7, 2001 Today it was 83 degrees with a sunny clear blue sky. My friend Dave's Harley Davidson was ready to transport us on a beautiful day trip to the original site of 'Woodstock' over in Bethel, New York about 30 minutes from my house. With it being an Friday afternoon in September we had little competition for the road from other vehicles. We took back roads over to Yasgur's Farm. The day was as idyllic as the hopes and dreams of the Woodstock generation which made history at the location over three decades ago. We then traveled down a picturesque Rt. 97 which winds high above the banks of the Delaware River. I later find out that this stretch of road is used in more car commercials than any other road because of it's curvaceous beauty. We stopped at the Milford Diner in Milford, PA for dinner . After our meal we turned our sites back home. It was just after 5pm and you could feel fall on it's way through a chill in the mountain air. Upon arriving home, I shared the doggie bag leftovers with my dog and best buddy, Jacqie. She is pleased with her good fortune on this evening. Jacqie and I decide to make it an early evening. The Cat Thirston opts to sleep on the back deck which is nestled in the trees overlooking 8 wooded acres of active wildlife. I take my mail and the newspaper to the bedroom to review before I get sleepy. The crickets are in full voice outside and dusk has settled into darkness. I'm getting sleepy. It's time to say goodnight and bring a close to my first day after deciding to change my residence from a small cramped apt. in NYC to my home in Northeast Pennsylvania. After such a beautiful day, I feel hopeful towards the future and that I'm off to a good start! _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 20:00:50 -0800 From: Rick and Susan Subject: Re: I hate christmas NJC No I don't, but I didn't want to break the thread. I don't hate Christmas, never have, but the celebration that it has evolved into in my family makes it very special. Now that our kids are grown and gone, Susan and I use Christmas as a way to express our love and to have a little fun. We don't buy any gifts except those which could *reasonably* fit inside a Christmas stocking. These could be anything, from Chinatown trinkets to a neat set of measuring spoons to toothbrushes (always a staple) to chocolate-covered ginger. Socks are good too. The *reasonably* part is that if something is a bit too big to go inside than it's allowed to hang outside or be attached with a ribbon but it can't be TOO big. Every little thing is wrapped in some way, the funnier the better. When our children can make it for Christmas each of them gets only a stuffed stocking (and of course the cats have their little socks too.) The unstuffing of the stockings is combined with the eating of brunch beside the tree, drinking (small amounts of) champagne, and finishing with cake and coffee so that the whole event can last close to two hours. I recommend it to anyone: No commercialism, no one-upsmanship, not a lot of money involved, just people laughing, eating, sitting on the floor, enjoying one another. Works for us anyway. Ranger Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 20:29:08 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: The Decision-njc I enjoyed your post, Barbara, as well as your thoughts from your travels on September 7. Seems quite providential in light of everything. I too have been listening to NRH today & Don McLean Classics. I'm planning, God willing,of driving to the 2002 Jonifest. Your description of the countryside makes me look all the more forward to the trip. I've never been to New York and was in grade school when Woodstock took place. But I want to see where it happened.......to say I was there. :-) Do write more you have a lot to offer! Bree >I grew up on Joni and she really saved my life in some very "troubled >child" times. > >I am here listening to NRH, loving it and happy to be alive. Wanted to >share with you all something I wrote a while back. (I usually lurk) > Wishing you and yours a warm and happy holiday, Barbara > > > >The Decision >Composed on September 7, 2001 > >Today it was 83 degrees with a sunny clear blue sky. My friend Dave's >Harley Davidson was ready to transport us on a beautiful day trip to the >original site of 'Woodstock' over in Bethel, New York about 30 minutes >from >my house. With it being an Friday afternoon in September we had little >competition for the road from other vehicles. We took back roads over to >Yasgur's Farm. The day was as idyllic as the hopes and dreams of the >Woodstock generation which made history at the location over three decades >ago. > >We then traveled down a picturesque Rt. 97 which winds high above the banks >of the Delaware River. I later find out that this stretch of road is used >in more car commercials than any other road because of it's curvaceous >beauty. We stopped at the Milford Diner in Milford, PA for dinner . >After our meal we turned our sites back home. It was just after 5pm and >you could feel fall on it's way through a chill in the mountain air. Upon >arriving home, I shared the doggie bag leftovers with my dog and best >buddy, >Jacqie. She is pleased with her good fortune on this evening. > >Jacqie and I decide to make it an early evening. The Cat Thirston opts to >sleep on the back deck which is nestled in the trees overlooking 8 wooded >acres of active wildlife. I take my mail and the newspaper to the bedroom >to review before I get sleepy. > >The crickets are in full voice outside and dusk has settled into darkness. >I'm getting sleepy. It's time to say goodnight and bring a close to my >first day after deciding to change my residence from a small cramped >apt. in NYC to my home in Northeast Pennsylvania. After such a beautiful >day, I feel hopeful towards the future and that I'm off to a good start! > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 21:03:17 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: I hate christmas NJC > (Besides which,even if I had told the whole world, how many people do >you know that find a real live horse under their tree >Christmas morning? Some of us really do set ourselves >up for the fall, don't we?) Almost as funny as a real live baby. When I was about five or six I sat on Santa's lap and when he asked me what I wanted for Christmas, I told him a baby. "What kind of baby doll do you want,little girl?" "No,not a doll,I want a real baby." I can't remember his response after this, but I was off his lap in a hurry. I can understand everyone's sentiments concerning the commercialism;I hate it as well. I like giving gifts and I don't like receiving? And I warned family and friends this year NOT to give me anything. But I went all out this year because I had a few extra dollars. Next year I will probably be broke and they won't get a thing..... except my love. My point is it's not so much the gift,but a gesture of remembering a certain perfume someone likes or a certain sweater with just the right color. It's a remembrance. My family and friends will continue to love me regardless if I give them a gift or not. I do agree that gift-giving at Christmas has as much to do with Christ as a piece of salami does. BTW,gifts and giving does not stem from the three wise men. IT comes from the Romans......the Romans giving gifts of gratitude to their underlings. I enjoyed your post. Bree > >So, I want a quiet and simple Christmas and it seems, >as years go by, that that is more likely to happen. >My family (that is, my sisters, brother and I) have >drifted more apart since our parents died, and we all >have families of our own. I would like to drift very >far apart from the ex, except that he keeps on hanging >around, trying to do things "as a family" (speaking of >un-clued-in), so that I have to be extremely blunt and >nasty with him telling him he's free to do things with >the kids but I don't want to be there (and he still >doesn't get it - anyone got a sledge hammer?) > >I suppose it's part of midlife crisis. One of these >days, it'll all pass and maybe Christmas will be >simple again. > >As far as Christmas music goes, I love some of it, >hate some of it - most of what I hate is the stuff >that you hear in every shopping mall and elevator from >Nov 1 on, way too cloying and overdone. Still, >there's some lovely stuff out there and fortunately, >as of December 26, it usually disappears for another >ten months! > >______________________________________________________ >Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 21:31:30 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: recipes NJC LOL...... Bob, you have to remember Mack is a nurse. Nursespeak. I know I work in a related field. He has to chart daily on this stuff. But with a lot more detail. Mack we love you!! Bree >Mack wrote: ><< No. 1 sounds delicious. >> > >I would like everyone to remember that I am exercising some restraint here. > > --Bob _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 21:35:52 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: I hate christmas NJC Sounds very nice......the way it was intended to be. Like anything..it's what you make it. Bree > >No I don't, but I didn't want to break the thread. > >I don't hate Christmas, never have, but the celebration that it has evolved >into in my family makes it very special. Now that our kids are grown and >gone, Susan and I use Christmas as a way to express our love and to have a >little fun. We don't buy any gifts except those which could *reasonably* >fit >inside a Christmas stocking. These could be anything, from Chinatown >trinkets to a neat set of measuring spoons to toothbrushes (always a >staple) >to chocolate-covered ginger. Socks are good too. The *reasonably* part is >that if something is a bit too big to go inside than it's allowed to hang >outside or be attached with a ribbon but it can't be TOO big. Every little >thing is wrapped in some way, the funnier the better. When our children can >make it for Christmas each of them gets only a stuffed stocking (and of >course the cats have their little socks too.) > >The unstuffing of the stockings is combined with the eating of brunch >beside >the tree, drinking (small amounts of) champagne, and finishing with cake >and >coffee so that the whole event can last close to two hours. > >I recommend it to anyone: No commercialism, no one-upsmanship, not a lot of >money involved, just people laughing, eating, sitting on the floor, >enjoying >one another. Works for us anyway. > >Ranger Rick _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #616 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?