From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #613 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, December 27 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 613 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: American English NJC ["Kakki" ] to catherine (njc) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: dec.27th (NJC) [Julius Raymond ] Pleasantries & NOT (NJC) [Susan Guzzi ] Re: American English NJC [colin ] Re: joni only content [ironically njc] [Murphycopy@aol.com] California ["mike pritchard" ] Re: Christmas 2001 (njc) [Julius Raymond ] NJC Re: joni only content [ironically njc] [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Bisexual Shoes njc ["kerry" ] James singing [KCooper984@aol.com] Re: California [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: to catherine (njc) [Catherine McKay ] Re: NJC Re: joni only content [ironically njc] ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: California [Rick and Susan ] NJC Re: covers volume 24 & Bob's singing voice [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Rose's Christmas njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Thoughts on The Lord of the Rings movie(njc) ["Johnson Victor" ] FW: NJC - My Band ["Donna J. Binkley" ] Re: FW: NJC - My Band ["Sybil Skelton" ] RE: FW: NJC - My Band ["Donna J. Binkley" ] Jonifest CDs, Covers and Rose[NJC] [Scott and Jody ] Re: joni only content [WARREN901@aol.com] Re: Re: joni only content [] Muumuus and go-aheads(NJC) [] Re: Re: joni only content ["mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: American English NJC RR wrote: > A muumuu is a Hawaiian dress, just a big old long baggy print dress, > like Mama Cass used to wear, or Hilo Hatty. I love the stories of Hilo Hattie! It sounded like from the short story that Shepard was using the description in the "slobby" context, but we should clarify that in Hawaii the muumuu is traditional and usually considered formal dress. > The go-aheads (maybe it's a Californism) are thongs, flip-flops, > clackers, specifically cheap ones. My mom (native N.Cal) called them > that in the 60's. I thought my mom was the only one who called them go-aheads ;-) I forgot about "clackers!" My favorite pair had a sort of bamboo sole with black velvet embroidered straps ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 05:54:33 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: to catherine (njc) catherine, my mails to you are bouncing back. don't you love me anymore? i wanted to say thank you for your b-day greetings and i had a marriage proposal too but i guess i'll leave that for our private correspondence. wally, glowing ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 01:22:52 -0800 From: Julius Raymond Subject: Re: dec.27th (NJC) Happy birthday to our own amazing birthday fairy and ambidextrous linguist extraordinaire! Keep up the good fight, Wally! You are loved. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 02:15:43 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Pleasantries & NOT (NJC) First the pleasantries. Happy Birthday to you - you most huggable BF Wally! Peace to you and all of your people right now. Happy Birthday to Greg Cagno! Can't wait to hear you at Jonifest 2002! Let the good time roll! Rose, I knew you were a photogropher, but you also sent us many vivid pictures with your words surrounding your Italian Christmas. I think you should write more, being Italian I felt like I knew all the characters! Ann, I always cry at that same line in "Have yourself a Merry Little Christmas!" Now, NJC, JC whatever! I do not want to give this anymore space than it deserves, but yes we could be more diligent in using the tags. But here's an idea, be nice! Some people seem to get more joy out of being sharp and complaining. It's real easy, I skip over posts that are not of my interests or are more technical. Sometimes I do read them. But I'm a big girl (no comments) and I can skip them or distinguish between what I want to read and what I don't. I am delerious over having met so many wonderful people here. I think most take great care to use the NJC and not involve the "Joni Onlies" in other discussions. I think it is rude to get more into the finger pointing, then into a positive or prouctive discussion or ongoing thread. Some people just love to make waves, I should say very few like to but still they are made. I don't think the parameters need to be changed for a few whiners. In fact the bad girl in me just wants to aggravate them even more! This only applies to whiny "Joni Onlies." One more pleasantry. I received a great gift this Christmas, no not a job. I had dinner with a friend after spending Christmas Eve and morning with my family. She played the Eva Cassidy Songbird CD for me. I was so overcome by it that she gave me the CD, she had 2 copies - - car & house. I was very full of wine and you know, but it was as if I had a vision. I can not quite tell you what an intimate experience I had listening to her sing "Fields of Gold." Last night it seems, with my best friend I tried to express what I was feeling as I heard her voice for the first time. All I know is that as she sang I visualized a glass of champagne. And her voice was just like the "bubbles in a glass of champagne" (You Go To My Head). She sure did. I hope everyone has a Very Happy New Year. I know I need one, but I'll need a job to do that! Take care all ... Peace Susan Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 10:46:29 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: American English NJC In Australia, flip flops are called Thongs. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 06:14:27 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: joni only content [ironically njc] In a message dated 12/26/01 10:10:03 PM, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << Shame on us for not writing what anonymous people want to read... >> Well, *I* try . . . --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 13:00:33 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: California Joni sang in 'California' "I took a plane to Spain, went to a party down a red dirt road, lots of pretty people there reading Rolling Stone, reading Vogue". Does anyone know where this place was? The 'pretty people' reference suggests the hippy Ibiza of the late 60s but it may be somewhere else. Any ideas? mike in bcn np Brad Mehldau 'progression' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 03:59:48 -0800 From: Julius Raymond Subject: Re: Christmas 2001 (njc) Dear Catherine: Thank you for your touching, bittersweet Christmas story. JT lyrics from another song go: "The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...the secret of live is in opening up your heart." I can see you're managing to do both in sometimes difficult times. Do I detect issues with the ex though? You're among friends here, darlin', don't sugar-coat it...give it to us straight. :-) I pray the saints will allow all our troubles to be over someday soon. And I do mean in this lifetime. Until then, well, you know... In any event, may I please eat at your table next Christmas, Catherine? Your menu sounds delicious! The carrots with fresh mint is a nice touch...and my knees get weak at the mere thought of good home-made cranberry sauce. I just know your mocha cake was moist and delicious. Post the recipes, why don't cha? This Christmas has been a blessed one for me. Some faithful friends who are dear to me were near to me, once more. I'm not worthy of some of the thoughtful gifts. And I got to spend some quality time on Christmas with my best friend's children, 11, 7 and two-and-a-half years old, who I've known since all their births. There is little so heartwarming as children's joy on Christmas Day. Andre, the adorable 2-year-old, has just learned to say my name, and we played ball with an under-inflated basketball he produced from a closet for quite a while. He was happy as could be. These are the sweet moments and simple pleasures of life I am touched so touched by and will never forget. I'll tell Andre reminiscences of this Christmas as he grows up. And maybe I'll retell them to his kids someday. Such is the circle of life. Lucas, my godson, the 7 year-old, feigned being bummed 'cause Toys R Us ran out of the Harry Potter game for Sony Playstation before I could get there, so it wasn't under the tree as I had hinted it might be. But it *was* in the mail from Amazon.com to him, I 'splained. I tried to steer conversation toward his new gear bike, how bad-ass it was. Even attempted to placate him a with a copy of _Harry and the Helicopter Rescue_ , a word-learning book with movable parts! He ripped the wrapping off, gave it a cursory examination, then looked at me and whined, "This sucks." It's mean, but I couldn't help but giggle at his little reversal of expectation. It's in the mail, Luke, you'll see... I gave Heather, the 12 year old, Tolkien's book _The Hobbit_, which she's excited about. She's read all the Harry Potters and likes the genre. I think she's ready. If she likes it, she'll never forget who introduced her to it. But that probably works conversely as well. Life is a series of taking such chances. I do hope everyone has a happy and highly hopeful holiday season. - -Julius - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine McKay" To: ; ; Cc: Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 7:49 PM Subject: Re: Christmas 2001 (njc) > --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > < > burn > > it for me somehow on my next Joni bootleg or covers > > request? >> > > > > You know I'd do it too, Rose...we'll figure > > something out. > > > > I just downloaded it off Musiccity.com. Can you > (meaning I) send these things (mp3s) as attachments? > I mean, I know you *can* - I tested it by sending one > to myself, but I got some kind of warning from my ISP > about clearing out my mailbox (it may have been that I > was sending it from my sympatico account to the same > account which may have confused things) I can send it > to people if this is something that can be done > without screwing things up and will do so if you ask > (but not without your permission, of course, and can't > send to the list, > (I don't think this thing supports attachments does > it?) Or can burn a CDR for you, if you like, and send > it by regular post (but I'm stingy and wouldn't want > to send only one 3-1/2 minute song!) > > Can someone who *gets* this stuff please let me know > before I start making promises I can't keep? > Otherwise, downloading the morpheus software from > Musiccity.com is quite easy - after all, I was able to > do it, so there you go. > > Anyhow, I know what you mean about Christmas being a > sentimental time. There are years (and this is one of > them) where I'd prefer to run away from it all. I > imagine a cabin in the woods. It's surrounded by > snow. I have no idea how I got there - there are no > footprints or tracks of any kind anywhere. There's a > roaring fire in the fireplace. There aren't a lot of > people there, and not one who pisses me off > (therefore, the father of my children isn't there, now > that's my idea of paradise, but I digress ;] ) > > It's two years ago this very day that I saw my father > alive for the last time. He died January 25, 2000, so > of course I think of him at Christmas. And my Mum who > died a few years earlier, but once Dad was gone, that > was it - I was forced to become a grownup and believe > me, it ain't all it's cracked up to be. I miss the > Christmases my whole family would get together at my > parents' place and the turkey and the whole bit. At > Christmas 1999, because my Dad and my stepmother had > spent Christmas Day itself with my stepmum's family, > we did the McKay family Christmas on Boxing Day. > Usually Dad acted as Santa and, after dinner, he would > call out the kids' names and they'd come and collect > their presents - they'd always be antsy as hell and > wired on sugar and they couldn't wait a minute longer, > or they'd probably burst from excitement. > > That last Christmas, Dad had gotten quite shaky from > the Parkinsons' and he couldn't manage very well > picking things up, and his voice had gotten quite > weak, so I moved up over beside him and helped him > out. > > This Christmas was a very quiet one. I had the ex > over - after all, he is the father of my children and, > as long as he doesn't hang around too long, I can > handle him without wanting to smack him one. I cooked > a turkey and mashed potatoes, home-made cranberry > sauce, stuffing, gravy, green beans and carrots with > fresh mint; mocha cake for dessert. It was a pretty > spare Christmas gift-wise, because there's not a lot > of money around right now (thanks to a certain jobless > bum who will remain nameless but if I don't help him > out, I may have to take him back - and I'd rather walk > off a cliff), but I wanted the dinner to be a good one > and the kids to be happy, and I think they were (if a > bit disappointed in the few gifts they got this year, > but they had been warned they probably wouldn't be > getting too much this year.) > > I appreciate the fact that JT uses the "until then, > we'll have to muddle through somehow" line rather than > the "Hang a shining/shiny star upon the highest bough" > that almost everyone else sings. I prefer the > muddling bit, because it's much more realistic and far > less saccharine than the shiny star. > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 08:03:58 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: joni only content [ironically njc] <> Well, we're just going to have to try harder, fellow Bob...just remember some simple rules: 1. No Ed Ames mentions (I assume we can't mention the other Ames Brothers either, whoever the hell they are); 2. NJC is OK as long as it's about Joan Armatrading; 3. Nothing personal! So let the free-flowing discussion begin! Really all that should be mentioned is upcoming Joni news, so that means there probably won't be any posts in 2002. Too bad, but let's all stay tuned to JoniMitchell.com and as soon as Joni's new record is announced we'll have something to talk about! ;~) Tongue perpendicular to cheek, Bob NP: Julian Coryell, "All I Really Want To Do" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 08:13:47 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: Bisexual Shoes njc Everyone's Christmas stories have pulled me out of lurkdom to share one of my own. Almost every time our family gets together, my 75 year old mother comes up with something (not on purpose) that sets us all off in fits of laughter. This year she gave some shoes to my niece that were the wrong size. When my niece told her that, my mom meant to say that the shoes came in "unisex" sizes and she said, "They're supposed to be bisexual!" My niece better not keep them in the closet! (sorry, that was bad.) Happy Holidays, everyone! Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 09:21:27 EST From: KCooper984@aol.com Subject: James singing Hi Everyone, I'm coming out of perpetual lurkdom to tell everyone that I found a link so you can all hear James singing "Have yourself a merry little Christmas". This is my favorite Christmas song too.... kind of sad and melancholy like "River". Love it! Love the list, love you all, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, Love you Joni!!!!!! Sue Cooper http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2001/dec/james_taylor/011219.jame s_taylor.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 09:25:21 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: California In a message dated 12/27/01 7:01:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, ink08@hotmail.com writes: > Joni sang in 'California' "I took a plane to Spain, went to a party down a > red > dirt road, lots of pretty people there reading Rolling Stone, reading > Vogue". > Does anyone know where this place was? The 'pretty people' reference > suggests > the hippy Ibiza of the late 60s but it may be somewhere else. Any ideas? > > No idea Mike. I just know about her time spent in Crete, Greece with some hippies in the caves of Matala until the police swept them out. This taken from an article in the JMDL database. Self-critical as always, she had spent 1970 in full retreat from stardom; in Greece, Spain, France, and Jamaica, getting herself back to the garden, maybe, living in a cave some of the time, she said. Still the urge for going. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 09:30:20 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: to catherine (njc) Silly Wally! I have no idea why your e-mails would bounce - maybe you used the wrong name? Or, if you sent anything in the last few weeks, I wasn't paying a lot of attention and deleted a lot of stuff without reading (probably missed some good stuff too!) - --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > catherine, > my mails to you are bouncing back. don't you love me > anymore? i wanted to > say thank you for your b-day greetings and i had a > marriage proposal too but > i guess i'll leave that for our private > correspondence. > wally, glowing ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 07:40:02 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: NJC Re: joni only content [ironically njc] Ok, I was the dumbshit that orginally brought up Ed Ames into the discussion. It was in response to Ann's post......one of her favorite songs is,"I Heard The Bells On Christmas Day" And Mr.Ames has a very nice rendition of that song that I wanted her to know about. In a way I know from where Catfat or fatcat is coming from. When I first signed on and i read all these PERSONAL posts I wanted to puke. I wanted JONI< JONI and more Joni. But then Joni-Only became not quite so important. I wanted more of you guys hence i became involved in your lives and want your personal thoughts on non-joni as well as-Joni. You know what I'm trying to say? They grow on you........If you can't beat em' join em'. Bree ><> > >Well, we're just going to have to try harder, fellow Bob...just remember >some simple rules: > >1. No Ed Ames mentions (I assume we can't mention the other Ames Brothers >either, whoever the hell they are); > >2. NJC is OK as long as it's about Joan Armatrading; > >3. Nothing personal! > >So let the free-flowing discussion begin! Really all that should be >mentioned is upcoming Joni news, so that means there probably won't be any >posts in 2002. Too bad, but let's all stay tuned to JoniMitchell.com and as >soon as Joni's new record is announced we'll have something to talk about! >;~) > >Tongue perpendicular to cheek, >Bob > >NP: Julian Coryell, "All I Really Want To Do" _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 10:45:15 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Re: joni only content [ironically njc] <> Dude, don't throw a hatchet at yourself! Ed Ames is totally a fine topic, as long as NJC is in the header. I don't think the Ames Brothers ever did Both Sides Now, but hey, the day is young! Maybe Fatcat should sign up on the Ed Ames' discussion list and maybe he'll find that they go off-topic and gab about Joni! :~) Bob NP: Elvis Costello, "Bama Lama Bama Loo" ------------------------------ Date: 27 Dec 2001 07:46:53 -0800 From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: Christmas 2001 (njc) > It's two years ago this very day that I saw my father > alive for the last time. He died January 25, 2000, so > of course I think of him at Christmas. Yeah. I can definitely relate. I saw my mother for the last time on Christmas day 1999. She died suddenly on January 3, 2000. And then the list of family members who've died around Christmas is really long. My sister and I always say that it doesn't seem like Christmas without a wake. (And, yes, I went to one this year a couple of days before Christmas - but it was someone Russ knew. I'd only met some family members a couple of times...) > I appreciate the fact that JT uses the "until then, > we'll have to muddle through somehow" line rather than > the "Hang a shining/shiny star upon the highest bough" > that almost everyone else sings. I prefer the > muddling bit, because it's much more realistic and far > less saccharine than the shiny star. Yes, I like that too. Much more true to life. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 11:27:16 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: covers volume 24 & Bob's singing voice Volume 24 is great Bo, thank you! You'll go down in history as being the Joel Bernstein of Joni covers. My estranged husband and I listened to you sing Blue Motel Room & E&TK last night on the JMDL CD's and you're not too shabby. Very sexy voice you got there Bob. I think you missed one of your callings in life Bob, but hardly. It's been recorded. love, rose ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 08:48:35 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: fatcat+-passion+-Joni+-list=? In my last post regarding this subject in places I was being a tad facetious. What I find fascinating about the JMDL is the passion that people have for Joni. I want to know these people BECAUSE of THEIR passion for her. I thought before joining that I was the most passionate Joinphile. HA HA HA I woke up to a rude awakening.....I really pale in comparison to some here. We come from different backgrounds, colors, shapes, but we all are drawn to JONI. WHY? This is fascinating!! But at the same time fatcat we/I should not presume you find this as interesting. And you do miss out on a lot in JONI-ONly digest.... there are some incredibly funny and intelligent people on the list. Bree _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 18:55:27 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: california Thanks for the info. I'll wait and see if anyone else has any ideas. It isn't remotely important, just curiosity on my part. all the best, mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 09:54:41 -0800 From: Rick and Susan Subject: Re: California > From: mike pritchard > Joni sang in 'California' "I took a plane to Spain, went to a party down a red > dirt road, lots of pretty people there reading Rolling Stone, reading Vogue". > Does anyone know where this place was? The 'pretty people' reference suggests > the hippy Ibiza of the late 60s but it may be somewhere else. Any ideas? Ibiza is my first guess although there is no specific mention of it in the Shadows and Light biography. It would make sense in that Ibiza was definitely on the hippie backpack trail in those days: James Taylor had visited there a year or two earlier (Carolina in My Mind) and I missed them both when I visited in late 1970. Ranger Rick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 13:06:32 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: covers volume 24 & Bob's singing voice Thanks for the good words, Rose! I was quite pleased with my set and as you now know there are many, many great moments on those CD's! My thanks to Michael & Steve who did such a fine job of accompaniment; how could I not sound good singing a Joni song with them backing me up? :~) As for the covers, many many more to come including some really nice surprises! Bob NP: Elvis Costello, "I Almost Had A Weakness" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 10:22:54 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Rose's Christmas njc Rose, I loved your Christmas tale. Yes yes yes, you should definately be writing these stories down. How lucky you are to have such a large family. For me that is the true joy of the Holiday season. To be surrounded by family & close friends... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 13:26:45 -0800 From: "Johnson Victor" Subject: Thoughts on The Lord of the Rings movie(njc) I finally went to see "The Fellowship of the Ring" and unexpectedly was fairly disappointed with this production. The set design was awesome throughout the movie and I really enjoyed the beginning scenes in the Shire but after that it seemed to go downhill. Though they may have waited for the proper technology to attempt to pull it off, they seem to have forgotten about everything else including character development and acting and didn't allow such a wonderful story to carry itself. Instead they depended almost entirely on the action, which I found to be extremely overdone, and took away all the nuances and subtlety that you find in the original written works, seemingly suggesting that the movie going public are a bunch of simpletons. The only I character I thought who showed any real depth in the movie was Gandalf. I thought his portrayal was excellent and I also thought Bilbo and Frodo were well cast but I was not particularly impressed with any of the other characters and found them to be lacking. And while I certainly did not expect the movie to be anywhere near as excellent as the book itself, I did not expect it to be such a disappointment. I did go in to the theatre with an open mind and no expectations but felt that so much of the movie was so unremarkable and really missed what it could have been....it didn't even seem to meet what I felt would have been minimum standards. And regardless of time restraints, I think there is a lot that could have been done differently without adding time to the movie. First off, the character of Sam was very poorly done, made out to be some dimwitted slow lad who happens to be devoted to Frodo when in reality, he is much more intelligent and cunning underneath than he appears to be on the surface, something that was not really expressed very well. It is this kind of detail that was sorely missing in both the script and the casting. Merry and Pippin are cast as stooges who seem to just goof off all the time when in actuality, they are more serious in the beginning than almost any of the others. It was not that the story was altered that bothered me but that they seemed to completely disregard it. At the least, they could have played off of the idea that Merry, Pippin, and Sam had a conspiracy going on, of which Sam was the chief conspirator, and the fact that there was no way they were going to let Frodo go off by himself. Instead, they just seem to run into Merry and Pippin by chance and it seems all of the sudden, they are going along without any explanation. And while stealing the carrots and cabbages may have been slipped in as an inside joke, it doesn't make any sense, seems manipulative and detracts from the idea that they are off on a serious quest. I did not like the casting of Aragorn at all. He expressed very little of the grace and honor that Aragorn should have and in my opinion had the completely wrong look. Once again, as with Sam, Aragorn is a complex character with many different levels and in the movie they failed to represent that or develop it at all. And the way he grabbed Frodo and dragged him away completely misrepresented him. It seems to be characteristic of this movie that the fellowship is just thrown together without any real development. It seems very strange that all of the sudden the hobbits are supposed to trust Aragorn when no real reason is given. The comment later "How do we know we can trust him?" seems late and just thrown in with no real substance. I thought the scene where Arwen called on the river to drown the Black Riders was very well done. Rivendell though, while beautiful, seemed like a ghost town. There was not the slightest hint of any feasting or celebration which was a very important facet of the elves. I think they should have made it look more like someone actually lives there, had something of a feast and music going on, and scratched the whole love scene with Aragorn and Arwen, which was something that could have happened and was kind of interesting but seemed rather unnecessary and is the kind of scene that's been in hundreds of other movies. The character of Elrond, was way too creepy and stern and did not convey the kind, wise nature that the original character has. This council just appears out of nowhere, and all of the sudden the company is assembled. The argument that ensued seemed out of character and while I can understand Sam wanting to go with Frodo, the original reason for Merry and Pippin demanding to come along, Elrond suggesting they stay and he send some of his elves, is not present which would have given more reason for them to come running up and saying that he would have to be sent home in sacks if they weren't allowed to go. Most of time, these direct quotes from the original seemed more like small tokens stuck in the movie with no real effort made to weave them in properly. And they show the broken sword but mention nothing about the Sword-That-Was-Broken being reforged. If they were not going to handle it properly, they should not have included it at all. Also, it is completely out of character for Sam to have packed his bags and been ready to go home. And Frodo mentions that he's been able to see elves as he wanted to, but his desire to see elves should have been brought out earlier in the movie and once again, Rivendell was practically empty in the movie. Elves are not just stern. They are also very lighthearted creatures who love feasts and music and this was not brought out at all in this movie. While I thought the scene between Gandalf and Saruman was well done, I thought way too much attention and focus was put on Orthanc and Isengard and Saruman. In the book, Gandalf mentions being held captive there during the council meeting and so it is known that Saruman has turned evil but he is not a major focus in the Fellowship of the Ring. I know that some foreshadowing is necessary for the following movies, but I think far too much time was spent making him out to be some evil villain like in a Batman movie, plotting to defeat the company. The indepth look at Isengard and the graphic detail of the orcs inside was unneccesary and could have been left out. There only needed to be an allusion shown that Saruman was building up a force. Having him manipulate the mountain and cause an avalanche was completely ridiculous and did not make any sense. I think far too much effort was made staging the attacks in the caves and not enough in developing the company as a fellowship. The troll scene was interesting but went on too long and seemed kind of silly. The bridge scene also seemed kind of cheap and predictable. And the scene with gollum seems to be just thrown in at a random time. All of this detail was given to the battle and the creatures while the character development just seeemed to suffer. Why are the hobbits the only ones who appear upset after Gandalf has fallen? Again, Aragorn is just shown as harsh and resolute to continue when in reality, he would have expressed some sorrow that Gandalf was gone as would have the others. I thought in general, the relationship between these characters was handled very poorly and only on the most surface level. To provide a comparison, the original Star Wars characters had much more personality than these did. Once again, in Lothlorien, the elves are shown as fierce and stern which I don't think was a fair representation. And while very pretty, Galadriel, seemed too stiff. The scene at the end could have been handled better as well. While I wouldn't have expected the movie to follow the book exactly, I didn't expect it to stray so far from the original at so many times and it just didn't have that flow that a really good movie has. The major criticism I have is too much graphic detail and attention was given to the orcs, and the battle scenes and not enough to the story itself. As much as I hate to say it, I am starting to side more with Tolkien that they shouldn't have bothered. Victor --- Johnson Victor--- waytoblu@mindspring.com--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 13:33:56 -0800 From: "Johnson Victor" Subject: again, formatted better I think...(njc) for some reason this post came back to me as one solid paragraph so I'll try it again... I finally went to see "The Fellowship of the Ring" and unexpectedly was fairly disappointed with this production. The set design was awesome throughout the movie and I really enjoyed the beginning scenes in the Shire but after that it seemed to go downhill. Though they may have waited for the proper technology to attempt to pull it off, they seem to have forgotten about everything else including character development and acting and didn't allow such a wonderful story to carry itself. Instead they depended almost entirely on the action, which I found to be extremely overdone, and took away all the nuances and subtlety that you find in the original written works, seemingly suggesting that the movie going public are a bunch of simpletons. The only I character I thought who showed any real depth in the movie was Gandalf. I thought his portrayal was excellent and I also thought Bilbo and Frodo were well cast but I was not particularly impressed with any of the other characters and found them to be lacking. And while I certainly did not expect the movie to be anywhere near as excellent as the book itself, I did not expect it to be such a disappointment. I did go in to the theatre with an open mind and no expectations but felt that so much of the movie was so unremarkable and really missed what it could have been....it didn't even seem to meet what I felt would have been minimum standards. And regardless of time restraints, I think there is a lot that could have been done differently without adding time to the movie. First off, the character of Sam was very poorly done, made out to be some dimwitted slow lad who happens to be devoted to Frodo when in reality, he is much more intelligent and cunning underneath than he appears to be on the surface, something that was not really expressed very well. It is this kind of detail that was sorely missing in both the script and the casting. Merry and Pippin are cast as stooges who seem to just goof off all the time when in actuality, they are more serious in the beginning than almost any of the others. It was not that the story was altered that bothered me but that they seemed to completely disregard it. At the least, they could have played off of the idea that Merry, Pippin, and Sam had a conspiracy going on, of which Sam was the chief conspirator, and the fact that there was no way they were going to let Frodo go off by himself. Instead, they just seem to run into Merry and Pippin by chance and it seems all of the sudden, they are going along without any explanation. And while stealing the carrots and cabbages may have been slipped in as an inside joke, it doesn't make any sense, seems manipulative and detracts from the idea that they are off on a serious quest. I did not like the casting of Aragorn at all. He expressed very little of the grace and honor that Aragorn should have and in my opinion had the completely wrong look. Once again, as with Sam, Aragorn is a complex character with many different levels and in the movie they failed to represent that or develop it at all. And the way he grabbed Frodo and dragged him away completely misrepresented him. It seems to be characteristic of this movie that the fellowship is just thrown together without any real development. It seems very strange that all of the sudden the hobbits are supposed to trust Aragorn when no real reason is given. The comment later "How do we know we can trust him?" seems late and just thrown in with no real substance. I thought the scene where Arwen called on the river to drown the Black Riders was very well done. Rivendell though, while beautiful, seemed like a ghost town. There was not the slightest hint of any feasting or celebration which was a very important facet of the elves. I think they should have made it look more like someone actually lives there, had something of a feast and music going on, and scratched the whole love scene with Aragorn and Arwen, which was something that could have happened and was kind of interesting but seemed rather unnecessary and is the kind of scene that's been in hundreds of other movies. The character of Elrond, was way too creepy and stern and did not convey the kind, wise nature that the original character has. This council just appears out of nowhere, and all of the sudden the company is assembled. The argument that ensued seemed out of character and while I can understand Sam wanting to go with Frodo, the original reason for Merry and Pippin demanding to come along, Elrond suggesting they stay and he send some of his elves, is not present which would have given more reason for them to come running up and saying that he would have to be sent home in sacks if they weren't allowed to go. Most of time, these direct quotes from the original seemed more like small tokens stuck in the movie with no real effort made to weave them in properly. And they show the broken sword but mention nothing about the Sword-That-Was-Broken being reforged. If they were not going to handle it properly, they should not have included it at all. Also, it is completely out of character for Sam to have packed his bags and been ready to go home. And Frodo mentions that he's been able to see elves as he wanted to, but his desire to see elves should have been brought out earlier in the movie and once again, Rivendell was practically empty in the movie. Elves are not just stern. They are also very lighthearted creatures who love feasts and music and this was not brought out at all in this movie. While I thought the scene between Gandalf and Saruman was well done, I thought way too much attention and focus was put on Orthanc and Isengard and Saruman. In the book, Gandalf mentions being held captive there during the council meeting and so it is known that Saruman has turned evil but he is not a major focus in the Fellowship of the Ring. I know that some foreshadowing is necessary for the following movies, but I think far too much time was spent making him out to be some evil villain like in a Batman movie, plotting to defeat the company. The indepth look at Isengard and the graphic detail of the orcs inside was unneccesary and could have been left out. There only needed to be an allusion shown that Saruman was building up a force. Having him manipulate the mountain and cause an avalanche was completely ridiculous and did not make any sense. I think far too much effort was made staging the attacks in the caves and not enough in developing the company as a fellowship. The troll scene was interesting but went on too long and seemed kind of silly. The bridge scene also seemed kind of cheap and predictable. And the scene with gollum seems to be just thrown in at a random time. All of this detail was given to the battle and the creatures while the character development just seeemed to suffer. Why are the hobbits the only ones who appear upset after Gandalf has fallen? Again, Aragorn is just shown as harsh and resolute to continue when in reality, he would have expressed some sorrow that Gandalf was gone as would have the others. I thought in general, the relationship between these characters was handled very poorly and only on the most surface level. To provide a comparison, the original Star Wars characters had much more personality than these did. Once again, in Lothlorien, the elves are shown as fierce and stern which I don't think was a fair representation. And while very pretty, Galadriel, seemed too stiff. The scene at the end could have been handled better as well. While I wouldn't have expected the movie to follow the book exactly, I didn't expect it to stray so far from the original at so many times and it just didn't have that flow that a really good movie has. The major criticism I have is too much graphic detail and attention was given to the orcs, and the battle scenes and not enough to the story itself. As much as I hate to say it, I am starting to side more with Tolkien that they shouldn't have bothered. Victor --- Johnson Victor--- waytoblu@mindspring.com--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 12:50:32 -0600 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: California-njc Ibiza was listed as #1 on the top ten party spots on a recent Travel Channel episode. It's now on my to do list, ha ha. Anyone been there recently? db - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Rick and Susan Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 11:55 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: California > From: mike pritchard > Joni sang in 'California' "I took a plane to Spain, went to a party down a red > dirt road, lots of pretty people there reading Rolling Stone, reading Vogue". > Does anyone know where this place was? The 'pretty people' reference suggests > the hippy Ibiza of the late 60s but it may be somewhere else. Any ideas? Ibiza is my first guess although there is no specific mention of it in the Shadows and Light biography. It would make sense in that Ibiza was definitely on the hippie backpack trail in those days: James Taylor had visited there a year or two earlier (Carolina in My Mind) and I missed them both when I visited in late 1970. Ranger Rick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 12:53:09 -0600 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: FW: NJC - My Band Hello and Happy New Year to all of my dear friends on the list here! I hope no one minds this shameless plug of my band for our New Year's Eve gig. If so, please delete here and try not to be upset with me. If not, open the attachment and/or visit our website at www.bchead.com Love yall, Donna Binkley (AKA The Texas Tush) [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/msword which had a name of New Year 2000.doc] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 13:18:39 -0600 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Re: FW: NJC - My Band The email program removed your attachment, so I checked out your website to see where in the great state of Texas you will be playing for New Year's - alas, it's Houston. I will be in the Hill Country over the holiday. Do y'all ever get to Austin? Oh, and Donna, I was looking at the photos. Which one is you? Running swiftly for cover, Sybil _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 13:18:49 -0600 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: FW: NJC - My Band Hi Sybil! Thanks for checking out the site! We don't really get to the hill country area that much. Mostly we stay within about an hr. of Houston so we don't have to waste money on hotels etc. Keep an eye out for us though, you never know! I am the only girl in the band so hopefully it's obvious which one I am now. But if not, check out the (web)page that has pics from the Empress Cruise. It has a picture of each of us with our name below it. Austin's great! If you have a chance go see Toni Price, she's a local there - kind of a folkie/blues with 2 accoustic players to back her, you can check out her website for their dates. From one brave chick to another, Donna - -----Original Message----- From: Sybil Skelton [mailto:sybilskelton@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 1:19 PM To: djb@binkleybarfield.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: FW: NJC - My Band The email program removed your attachment, so I checked out your website to see where in the great state of Texas you will be playing for New Year's - alas, it's Houston. I will be in the Hill Country over the holiday. Do y'all ever get to Austin? Oh, and Donna, I was looking at the photos. Which one is you? Running swiftly for cover, Sybil _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 14:43:52 -0500 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Jonifest CDs, Covers and Rose[NJC] Thanks to all that contributed to the Jonifest CDs. The performance and sound quality is Wonderful! Brings back many warm memories! You all are Great! Thanks Bob for the pkg. galore :~) and Steve, the artwork is Beautiful! Rose, Congrats on your new job!! I hope you really like it there and that it all works out for you. I loved your Christmas story! You should consider keeping a journal and write. Bob does have a sweet and soulful voice. I want to perform a musical piece with him :~) Happy New Year to all!!!!! love, jody ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 14:51:04 -0500 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Re: dec.27th (NJC) > Deputy B.F. > > > > Wants to wish along with everyone else... > > > > H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y W A L L Y!!!!! > I'm so grateful that the Deputy B.F. is on top of things. Hi Jimmy! Remember last year Wally?!#? Have a Very Happy and Safe Birthday!!!!!! Take Care of yourself and do try to get SOME sleep :~D love, jody ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 15:09:24 EST From: WARREN901@aol.com Subject: Re: joni only content greeting joniphiles ! i'm surprised anyone was offended by the post from " fatcats2!" i'm new to the list ,here just a few weeks, and found his objection perfectly reasonable. ( " fatcats2 " is the one who should be offend by such a negative reaction from the list memebers ! ) i will admit i too am guilty of a NJC christmas greeting and will do better in the future. ( it seemed appropriate at the time .) i 'm actually new to the internet as well, but the list did specify " joni content " only for this list. i see nothing wrong with the familiarity between list members when posting their joni info, maybe we have violated the premise of the list and should try to stick to the joni content only rule. frankly i don't agree with the thought that joni would have somehow thought " fatcats2 " was in the wrong, or the idea that a good joni fan would not have made the post. i can't beleive these comments were even made ! i feel a need to apoligize for the remark even though i didn't make it ! . ) enough said...let's get back to the subject at hand...JONI !!! jonily yours, warren keith p.s. welcome to the list " fatcats2. " ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 16:11:16 -0500 From: Subject: Re: Re: joni only content JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI, JONI JONI ps. JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 16:17:05 -0500 From: Subject: Muumuus and go-aheads(NJC) Go-aheads, as has been said are rubber thongs, flip-flops, footwear. I always thought they were called "go-Aheads" because it was hard to walk backwards in them. They slipped off your feet. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 15:15:24 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Re: joni only content Can't say it better than that. mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 3:11 PM Subject: Re: Re: joni only content > JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI > JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI > JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI > JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI > JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI > JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI > JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI > JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI > JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI > JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI > JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI > JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI > > > JONI, > > JONI JONI > > > ps. JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI > JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI > JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI JONI ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #613 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?