From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #606 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, December 21 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 606 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: (njc) Another mondegreen... [colin ] Re: december 17!!!! (njc ... rambling in fact) [colin ] Re: december 17!!!! (njc ... rambling in fact) [colin ] Re: Argentina [Mags N Brei ] (njc) "Chestnuts rolling over the west coast..." [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Ryan Adams, poem written by Sylvia Plath njc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Ryan Adams, poem written by Sylvia Plath njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Ryan Adams, poem written by Sylvia Plath njc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Ryan Adams, poem written by Sylvia Plath njc ["Mark or Travis" ] WallyK njc [Steve Polifka ] Joni-Heaven njc [Steve Polifka ] Concept albums (again) [<657174974@amena.com>] Re: The concept of Concept Albums [Jerry Notaro ] Happy Holidays [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: Joni uses the term "Bell Jar" [colin ] State of Wally (NJC) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: "River" cover by Travis ["Kakki" ] Re: odd things njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: "River" cover by Travis [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] 6:30 pm (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: odd things njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] thanks for suggestions NJC [Alison E ] Re: Lord of the rings NJC [] Re: 6:30 pm (NJC) [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: "River" cover by Travis ["Kakki" ] Re: odd things njc [Randy Remote ] Re: 6:30 pm (NJC) [Randy Remote ] Re: Lord of the rings NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: 6:30 pm (NJC) [Janet Hess ] Re: 6:30 pm (NJC) [TimandMaryPowers@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:28:57 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: (njc) Another mondegreen... > "Well, it's nothing important, but why would any babysitting agency > *sepcialize* in Lesbian babysitters?" > > My sister figured out where the misunderstanding came from, and they had a > good laugh. so where was the misunderstanding/ how did she thi k she heard lesbian baby sitter? > > > bye for now, > > walt - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:30:08 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: december 17!!!! (njc ... rambling in fact) > Both of you: please don't take offence I forgot - I'm just crap you > see. I need a live-in secretary(*) to look after my work and social > diary and remind me of people's birthdays, otherwise I just get it > all terribly wrong. Goldfish have better short term memory retention > than I do. not at all offended. i have known you a long time now and know what you are like! > > > Sigh. > > --Chris > > *Well, a live-in something else really. Only some of the duties > will be secretarial... :-) - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:31:27 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: mondegreens (njc) > I used to call Nana Mouskouri, Banana Mouse. this very close to what we called her-Banana Muscovy Duck!(haven't a clue as to why) > My sister said carrot-ban instead > of caravan. > > Hell - helping in the Wally-vigil. Stay safe, Wally - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:34:44 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: december 17!!!! (njc ... rambling in fact) You might like to know that Charlotte Coleman who was the girl with the shortahir who said fuck lots of times cos she was late, died recently of an asthma attack. she was 34. She also did a terrific job in ornages Are Not The Only Fruit, the serial that got her known. Excellent it was too. Mark or Travis wrote: > > I'd like to mis-quote Hugh Grant, who in Four Weddings, woke up, > > looked at the time (and for my purposes, realised the date). > > > > "FECK!" > > He did NOT. He said FUCK! Get over it! > > ;-) > Mark E. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 03:53:17 -0600 From: johnirving Subject: It's a bird. It's a plane. It's SCJoniguy. Warren, Cindy.... kids.... Is Bob Superman? Are you kidding. If it were me, I'd have shouted, "Ahhhhhh, tape it yerself." long ago. -The man has the patience of a saint. -We'll not see the likes of SCJoniguy again for a looooong time. Bobbo is pretty rare and special. --Not to mention, the guy is handsome for an old man. Geez, imagine what he was like at 20? Life never was fair. And then, there's Vermeer. j. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:52:37 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: NJC dingo of heart and mind & Mullers TTNBC- a joni parody Jimmy wrote: > Murphy, you're too damn funny. Hell will always go through life known as the > Dingo girl :~) Yeah. In years to come, some young upstart (who's read 50 years of archives) at Jonifest 2042 will come up and say something "funny" to me about dingos, and I'll start muttering incoherently (around my false teeth) about those "bastard Bobs", Muller and Murphy! > Jimmy, who's happy to say "I'M NOW GOING TO JONIFEST"!!!! Now this is something to celebrate! Yay, Jimmy's coming to Jonifest!!!!!!!! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:54:50 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Blue Thing Run Fast -- a joni parody in reply - NJC Rose wrote: > I dunno Ali if we should let the Smurf stay in the Terrapin Station > tent this year Fear not, my revenge will be exacted on those DIRECTLY responsible for my current fragile state of mind. No innocent bystanders will be harmed. However, any persons joining in on the "fun" will need to watch their backs! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:03:16 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: Argentina NJC Hi >>Wally wrote >>thank you for your concern. pray for the money for my jonifest airfare!!!!! >>i love you all, WALLY !! STOP ALL THIS NONSENSE AND GET BACK INSIDE!!! (in louding, scolding, motherly tones...) :-) i want to meet you at jonifest - but if you argentinians keep fighting, and our currency keeps diving (something like 40% since september - and our "government" still hasnt done anything but blame argentina and/or zimbabwe!!!!) it doesnt look like either of us will make it :-( ron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 04:10:22 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Argentina imho, i have a feeling that the omission of NJC on these posts about Wally and his safety are fine...oh I think Joni would agree (there's my Joni content). please take care, and be safe... please stay in touch Wah. love to you, sistah and ducki boi xo - --- Ron Greer wrote: > Hi > > > >>Wally wrote > >>thank you for your concern. pray for the money for my jonifest > airfare!!!!! > >>i love you all, > > > WALLY !! STOP ALL THIS NONSENSE AND GET BACK INSIDE!!! (in louding, > scolding, motherly tones...) :-) > > i want to meet you at jonifest - but if you argentinians keep > fighting, and our currency keeps diving (something like 40% since > september - and our "government" still hasnt done anything but blame > argentina and/or zimbabwe!!!!) it doesnt look like either of us will > make it :-( > > > > > ron ===== I've got you to see me through, looking out for what I do Spreading sunshine from the skies, placing rainbows in my eyes Got you watching out for me, making sense of what I see When my world is wearing blue, I've got you to see me through . - ---by Eleanor McEvoy on her album Yola (2001) . Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:21:35 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: (njc) "Chestnuts rolling over the west coast..." Paul I wrote: The late great Chicago newspaper columnist Mike Royko once wrote that "God tilted the United States and all the loose nuts rolled west to California." ...and off into the water. Only the good people (and some disappointed squirrels remained. lol, walt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:33:15 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Ryan Adams, poem written by Sylvia Plath njc I was thinking today about Sylvia Plath, whom Ryan had written a song about..... She was a fantastic poet The Moon And The Yew Tree This is the light of the mind, cold and planetary The trees of the mind are black. The light is blue. The grasses unload their griefs on my feet as if I were God Prickling my ankles and murmuring of their humility Fumy, spiritous mists inhabit this place. Separated from my house by a row of headstones. I simply cannot see where there is to get to. The moon is no door. It is a face in its own right, White as a knuckle and terribly upset. It drags the sea after it like a dark crime; it is quiet With the O-gape of complete despair. I live here. Twice on Sunday, the bells startle the sky -- Eight great tongues affirming the Resurrection At the end, they soberly bong out their names. The yew tree points up, it has a Gothic shape. The eyes lift after it and find the moon. The moon is my mother. She is not sweet like Mary. Her blue garments unloose small bats and owls. How I would like to believe in tenderness - The face of the effigy, gentled by candles, Bending, on me in particular, its mild eyes. I have fallen a long way. Clouds are flowering Blue and mystical over the face of the stars Inside the church, the saints will all be blue, Floating on their delicate feet over the cold pews, Their hands and faces stiff with holiness. The moon sees nothing of this. She is bald and wild. And the message of the yew tree is blackness - blackness and silence. She has also written an autobiographical novel titled The Bell Jar based on her own suicide attempt. Sadly, she committed suicide in February of 1961. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:51:55 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Ryan Adams, poem written by Sylvia Plath njc <> I think it was '63, Rose. But what I want to know is what is the significance of "Bell Jar"?...it looks like it's a big glass beaker of some kind. Joni of course uses "Bell Jar" in Ludwig's Song. (Judgement of the Moon & Stars) Just wondering if anybody can shed any light on the significance of the term. Bob NP: Shawn Colvin, "Get Out Of This House" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:22:33 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Ryan Adams, poem written by Sylvia Plath njc In a message dated 12/20/01 8:51:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy writes: > I think it was '63, Rose. But what I want to know is what is the > significance of "Bell Jar"?...it looks like it's a big glass beaker of some > kind. > > Joni of course uses "Bell Jar" in Ludwig's Song. (Judgement of the Moon & > Stars) > > Just wondering if anybody can shed any light on the significance of the > term. > I stand corrected, you're right Bob. It was 1963. I have my facts confused. She wrote the book in 1961. Back to the significance of "Bell Jar." Perhaps it means being in sort of a vacuum. Beethoven lost his hearing. Or perhaps a state of depression, confinement, mental institutions, the apparatus they use in electroshock therapy. I'm just guessing here, throwing out some thoughts. I use to think she was referring to Church Bells. ~rose NP: Shadows & Light ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 06:43:48 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Ryan Adams, poem written by Sylvia Plath njc Perhaps it means being in sort of a > vacuum. Beethoven lost his hearing. Or perhaps a state of depression, > confinement, mental institutions, the apparatus they use in electroshock > therapy. I'm just guessing here, throwing out some thoughts. I use to think > she was referring to Church Bells. > > ~rose In Joni's case I do think she's referring to the silence of a vacuum. If I remember right, bell jars are large & heavy enough that they can withstand having all of the air pumped out from inside of them, thus inducing a vacuum. In space, no-one can hear you scream.... I read 'The Bell Jar' but it's been a long time ago. Plath described a state of mind in which everything was slightly distorted in that book. She likened her way of perceiving things to being under a bell jar. After having electro shock therapy, she said it felt like the bell jar had finally lifted off of her. This is going on very sketchy memories of a book I only read once quite a few years ago. Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:59:23 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Joni uses the term "Bell Jar" This taken from an interview: The Second Coming of Joni Mitchell: Hotpress, April 26, 2000 "Yes and no," she replies. "All of a sudden things are being noticed I am being recognised as a guitar player. And, you're right, I never did receive praise for my piano playing. As for producing the records, the only time I really let anyone else take control was for my first album. And, like I've always said, that still sounds, to me, like it was recorded in a bell jar so since then, I've never let the compositions get away from me in the studio. bless the JMDL database ~rose ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 11:09:16 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Ryan Adams, poem written by Sylvia Plath njc <> Seems obvious after I've seen your explanation, Mark! I found some photographs of a Bell Jar and it looks like it's used in science experiments involving air pressure. Thanks for the help! I guess Joni uses the term instead of "vacuum" to avoid using a cliche. More of Kratzman's influence... Bob NP: Shawn Colvin, "Sunny Came Home" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 13:32:31 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: noon NJC well, 16 dead and counting. i went to sleep at 9 am [nothing new about that]. a while ago the police started dragging people out of the mayo square and shooting rubber bullets [is that how you call them -- it doesn't sound right]. united nations offices will be closed today, which is rather a blessing in a selfish way because i didn't have to go to my morning job. i have a headache and the noise from the helicopters and the sirens ain't helping. i am so proud of my neighbors. even the most horrid ones came out last night and kept the protest going all the time. we are very individualistic and blase here and that is why we always end up having these crooks in the government. last night was different. maybe in a hundred years we'll be a country. there's a lot more trouble ahead: the bank deposits, the people killed yesterday, the state of siege, the new coalition government. this country is fellinesque. did you ever see that fellini movie, orchestra rehearsal? argentina. your faithful reporter signs off now. love you all, wally ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:42:53 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: WallyK njc Wallista, my brother! Hope this finds you safe and well. Like Michael said, the good will come soon! You are in my prayers today... Hugs, Steve Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:56:57 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Joni-Heaven njc Joni heaven... Hmmmm... Sounds like what Asharafest is close too- except there are no dingos or Blue Things... I'm still not sure if I can make it in 2002, which is rather disappointing, but my dreams took me there. On Saturday night there was a Joni-masquerade Ball. Everyone had to come as a character from one of Joni's songs. There was a Black Crow, Several Don Juan's Reckless Daughters (hee hee), Coyote Rick came as himself-lol... A Scarlett... it was all too cool, although I don't remember who I went as... Steve P.S. Could you imagine all the possible characters at that ball? A madman, Gail and Louise, indians, drag queens, astronauts, clowns, and Gay boys ;-) ... Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:13:24 GMT From: <657174974@amena.com> Subject: Concept albums (again) Hello Well, something went wrong with my last post, thanks to Laurent for pointing it out. What I was saying is that elements like reprises, no breaks between the songs, sound effects or the presence of a storyline that loosely ties it all together (this is shared with the so-called rock-operas like The Who's Tommy) usually are almost as important as the presence of a concept. I would choose Carole King's Fantasy and The Kink's Arthur as representative concept albums. The first is said to be The Beatles' Sgt. Peppers', but you already know that. The Beach Boys' Pet Sounds, Zappa's Freak Out and The Kinks' Face To Face (Ray Davies really LOVED concept albums), all from 1966, are the precursors. I don't think that DED is a concept album, but this is open to discussion. Regards Ayoze Laurent wrote: > On the topic of concept albums, the issue is not whether DED is one or not. > I'm more interested in JMDLers' input on the DEFINITION of a concept album? > Could we agree on principle first (if possible) before aguing about > specifics. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 12:31:51 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: The concept of Concept Albums Definition: Any album you listen to while very stoned. Jerry :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 12:44:28 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Chicago Christmas CD (NJC) Does anyone have this CD? If so, please contact me off list. Thanks!! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:49:02 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: noon NJC wally, i am so glad to hear that you safe (and being so brave!). keep the faith. my thoughts and heart are with you. times are strange, indeed. love, alison e. in slc. where the only thing that would cause looting and rioting is if they outlawed hot chocolate and icecream. np: wnku - --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > well, 16 dead and counting. i went to sleep at 9 am > [nothing new about > that]. a while ago the police started dragging > people out of the mayo square Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 13:08:44 EST From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Happy Holidays Forgive the lack of a NJC tag, but I wanted to wish everyone on the list Happy Holidays and the very best for 2002. This has been a difficult year for all of us, and though I had to leave the list for several months due to some personal matters, it warmed my heart to think of the wonderful friends that I have made via this Internet community. Thoughts of the JMDL helped restore my faith in mankind. I want to wish each and everyone on the list a future filled will good health, peace and much happiness. Attached is my holiday greeting to the JMDL community. May the spirits of the holiday seasons be with us all, and help to guide us through difficult times. All the best, Stephen [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of RunMe.EXE] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:45:13 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Joni uses the term "Bell Jar" > since then, I've never let the compositions get away from me in the studio. doesn't this rather put paid to blaming Dolby for DED? > > > bless the JMDL database > > ~rose - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 11:48:43 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: State of Wally (NJC) adding my concern & prayers to the wally vigil...its times like these it is hard to be on digest cuz everything comes in late... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 12:14:59 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: "River" cover by Travis This morning at work I was listening to KCRW when "River" by Travis was played. A few minutes later Nic Harcourt said we had been listening to "Joni Mitchell's 'River" by Travis - it's on a "B" side to one of Travis's songs, which I don't know the title and doubt you can find it out there anymore - someone sent me a really cool compilation of Christmas songs and included this one on it." Bob - you been corresponding with Harcourt these days?? ;-) I wouldn't be surprised if this found its way to Harcourt through our "Covers" connection here. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 13:11:13 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: odd things njc Hi neighbor, BTW,I live north of Cincinnati about twenty minutes from downtown. (I drive fast though) So you don't have an EQ? I have a nephew who is a sound engineer and when he's in town sometimes he stays with me.... loves to fiddle with my system. My system is Onkyo. Which is about three years old now, but I still enjoy it. The speakers are DCM,are you familiar with these? He fiddles constantly with the EQ maybe because of his profession? I always thought of him as a audiophile type though. Do true audiophiles only listen to vinyl? Thanks for your input. (I have a home theater set-up too and am amazed how important positioning of the speakers and thus because of that positioning how the sounds bounce off the wall. I knew nothing about setting this up,my brother did most of the work. The hardest part for him was hiding the massive amount of wiring in the walls.) Bree Quite the opposite, Bree. Audiophiles, true audiophiles, don't like tone >controls. In fact some very, very, hyper-expensive gear lacks tone >controls >completely. The best setups have so much detail that the room is not in >the >way, so there's no compensation needed. A car, on the other hand, is a >terrible place to listen to music for lots of reasons. > >(The exception to this is ancient 78s and LPs. Before the RIAA curve >became >the standard, each record company had their own "curve" and therefore, a >corresponding tone compensation emphasis). > >Lama, who positions the living room speakers so they sound best without >tone >controls, then adds the furniture. Really. Then, I adjust the treble in >the car. (sigh) > >Bree said, > >> Having had a little Christmas cheer earlier tonight.......when I really >want >to feel the music and when I'm really in to it........I like mega bass. >When I play Joni at home......mid-range is down,treble up. I know there >are >audiophiles that change/fiddle with the EQ on each individual song......not >cd but song! They HEAR everything that was intended to be heard and maybe >more?>> _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:23:35 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: "River" cover by Travis <> Can't say as I know him, but anytime there's more Joni in the world, it's a GOOD thing! Especially if we can resurrect some long lost versions, or bring wider exposure to deserving indie performers, more power to us! Regarding Covers #24, I was contacted by Bruce Anthony (who had the first three tracks on the CD) who wanted to know how he could get a copy, as he no longer had access to any of those recordings. I was glad to send him a complimentary copy...and hopefully he'll let me know when he lays down some more soulful Joni tunes! Bob Bob NP: Shawn Colvin, "Riding Shotgun Down The Avalanche" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:37:55 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: 6:30 pm (NJC) several mcdonald's and at least one citibank are burning in downtown buenos aires. the red cross has just reported that 6 young protesters were killed this afternoon at the mayo square, where people are still demonstrating against the state of siege. businesses have closed down. as from 12 midnight, workers will go on strike indefinitely, bringing the country to a stop. the opposition has refused to form a coalition government and the president has resigned. as i write, the city is preparing itself for a night of barricades and tension. i have decided to join the protesters. i can't stay home and watch how my country crumbles. i have always been a political person and it is my duty and my joy to fight for my beliefs. i will be signing off now. thank you for your love and your concern. we'll be meeting again on a brighter day. wally ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:08:51 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: odd things njc >Quite the opposite, Bree. Audiophiles, true audiophiles, don't like tone >>controls. In fact some very, very, hyper-expensive gear lacks tone >>controls >>completely. The best setups have so much detail that the room is not in >>the >>way, so there's no compensation needed. Would it be true that an audiophile would believe in using an equalizer would be akin to changing the colors of an artist painting or re-editing a directors film? But,in addition to altering the E.Q. to suit ones preference,it could be argued that EQ is used/manipulated in order to compensate for deficiencies in a given stereo system or in order to "tune" the room. I would guess for the flattest response possible i.e. pink noise? (I have heard this term quite a bit and am still confused about the difference between pink and white noise) Bree >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:17:43 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: thanks for suggestions NJC thanks david, paul, rose and anyone i'm forgetting who gave me suggestions for the reading i had to do at the ol' company x-mas party. at the last minute, i found a pablo neruda poem called "ode to my socks" which was a big hit. i can always count on the brains and heart of the jmdl to come to my aid. happy holly-days, everyone. alison e. in slc np: elton john, honky chateau Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:07:59 +0000 From: Subject: Re: Lord of the rings NJC Mark and everyone else, i can now talk about the movie, Chris Marshall is probably just coming out of the cinema in or around Cambridge. It was for the most part visually stunning, atmospherically impressive and truly captivating. I am coming from the point of view of a fan, of course. Elijah *is* Frodo. Jackson's vision of Middle Earth is perhaps as close to Tolkiens own vision as we'll ever see. There are some very funny moments (i'm trying to say little, in order to maintain suspense for those not in the know!) Tom Bombadil is not in this movie. I guess he isn't entirely relevant to the advancement of the story, but it is such a wonderful little chapter. The film kept all of the key features and characters from the book. The immense detail the novel indulges in, of course, had to be cut down some for a cinematic venture. If one had not read the books, ones understanding might have been a little marred. My sister really had to concentrate at some points to keep it all straigh in her head, not so much as to render much negativity on the film. I mean, there is a serious of encounters with strnage named characters in strange named places (i.e Arwen and Elrond in Rivendell; Galadriel in Lothlorien) that are central to the plot. In the book a fair amount of time and detail is devoted to all of this, but in the film these are merely fleeting episodes. This isn't necesarily a bad thing, it is probably needed to maintain the pace of film. AT just under three hours, it was imperative for Peter Jackson to keep everything moving and interesting. And yes, he really succeeded. The musical score i found to be moving, a little contrived at times, but very moving. When i heard that Enya sings on the soundtrack i was disappointed, but it is very well crafted. I bought the soundtrack a week ago, but i havnet listend to it yet. I really will do so soon! Have i just concentrated on the downside(s)?? I think i'll need to see it again to fully digest the film. It is faithful and satisfying. A little more Explained than the book, if you know what i mean, but still, a wonderful film based on an amazing book. Jackson is not ripping us off; he is not cheating us. The disappointments i expressed here are probably inevitable considering my feelings for the book. These dissapointmenst were outweighed by the adept acting (very cute cast! hehe), great great great scenery,generally exciting visuals (wow Gollum!! wow!!, but the Balrog boohoo), and an amazingly brilliant source novel. anyone else??? Chris? Debra?? GO on and see it Mark. Even Liv Tyler is good!!! GARRET ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 20:05:10 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: 6:30 pm (NJC) Wally, PLEASE be CAREFUL, and write often so we know you are OK!!!!! Sending lots and lots of light your way. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:31:16 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: "River" cover by Travis Hi Bob, > Can't say as I know him, but anytime there's more Joni in the world, it's a GOOD thing! Especially if we can resurrect some >long lost versions, or bring wider exposure to deserving indie performers, more power to us! Harcourt succeeded Chris Douridas at KCRW and hosts "Morning Becomes Eclectic" (Douridas had Joni in-studio for the 3/27/98 interview). Harcourt is pretty important in L.A. radio - here is some more information on him (which also notes he had Travis on his show and released a MBE CD featuring his in-studio performance). http://www.pofhthemovie.com/pofh-music-nic.htm Maybe he will have Joni on when the next album is released. By the way, I can see how it is easy to mistake the Travis version with the Robert Downey, Jr. version. However, Downey, Jr. has a raspier voice, while Travis is very sweet, almost reminds me of Brian Kennedy. That's cool about Bruce Anthony - you sure have made a lot of friends through the Joni covers project! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 20:30:24 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: odd things njc Most sound engineers are not audiophiles. In fact the most popular speaker for mixing for the last few years have been the Yamaha NS-10, $300 a pair and they sound like crap! The idea is that if you can make the mix sound good on these, they will sound good on anything. I just read an interview with a mastering engineer who scrapped all his old equipment and equipped his mastering facility with audiophile stuff after hearing a friend's system. Your sound engineer friend listens to music all day, he no doubt spotted something out of whack with your setup right away without even trying. Each speaker system is different and will have frequency peaks or dips. Then again, many live music engineers (and rock musicians) have blown out their ears and need to boost the highs to hear them. Regarding EQ: pretty much every instrument on every popular recording has EQ applied during recording and/or mixing. The overall mix may have had EQ applied to it during mastering. You have to be careful with EQ; using it generally introduces phase shift, smearing the sound and causing frequencies to clash. Subtractive EQ causes less phase shift than additive. You are correct that overall EQ is often used to tune a room after 'shooting' it, using a frequency analyzer. You would find the sonic 'signature' or bias of the room, and forever after run everything through a compensating EQ curve. A room is a box with resonate frequencies that bunch up according to the dimensions. The worst would be a square room, creating standing waves (resonate frequencies). Next worst would be rooms whose walls are mathmatically related ie 10x20, 12x18 etc. Recording studios generally have high ceilings, too, and frequency absorbing materials of various types to control the sounds that are bouncing around. Finally, most loudspeakers are not really capable of reproducing the lowest bass frequencies. You can somewhat make up for it by boosting the bass. A subwoofer is better. Avoid centering speakers equadistant between walls or between the floor and ceiling to avoid standing waves. I don't consider myself an audiophile. I think you can put together a pretty good system without mortgaging your house. My stereo system in my living room has the bass gently boosted and the treble rolled off a bit. My studio system has a Tannoy sub and near- field Tannoy phase coherent coaxials. It sounds great. The best headphones I have ever heard are electrostatics-the highs are so natural. If I had the right room and the bucks and inclination, I would probably get a pair of electrostatic speakers and a good subwoofer to handle the lows. Interestingly, a few years ago, one of the audiophile mags did a test of all the fancy and not-so-fancy speaker wires. One of the ones that ranked pretty high was Romex - A.C electrical constuction wire! RR Bree Mcdonough wrote: > Hi neighbor, BTW,I live north of Cincinnati about twenty minutes from > downtown. (I drive fast though) So you don't have an EQ? I have a nephew > who is a sound engineer and when he's in town sometimes he stays with me.... > loves to fiddle with my system. My system is Onkyo. Which is about three > years old now, but I still enjoy it. The speakers are DCM,are you familiar > with these? He fiddles constantly with the EQ maybe because of his > profession? I always thought of him as a audiophile type though. Do true > audiophiles only listen to vinyl? Thanks for your input. (I have a home > theater set-up too and am amazed how important positioning of the speakers > and thus because of that positioning how the sounds bounce off the wall. I > knew nothing about setting this up,my brother did most of the work. The > hardest part for him was hiding the massive amount of wiring in the walls.) > > Bree > > Quite the opposite, Bree. Audiophiles, true audiophiles, don't like tone > >controls. In fact some very, very, hyper-expensive gear lacks tone > >controls > >completely. The best setups have so much detail that the room is not in > >the > >way, so there's no compensation needed. A car, on the other hand, is a > >terrible place to listen to music for lots of reasons. > > > >(The exception to this is ancient 78s and LPs. Before the RIAA curve > >became > >the standard, each record company had their own "curve" and therefore, a > >corresponding tone compensation emphasis). > > > >Lama, who positions the living room speakers so they sound best without > >tone > >controls, then adds the furniture. Really. Then, I adjust the treble in > >the car. (sigh) > > > >Bree said, > > >> Having had a little Christmas cheer earlier tonight.......when I really > >want > >to feel the music and when I'm really in to it........I like mega bass. > >When I play Joni at home......mid-range is down,treble up. I know there > >are > >audiophiles that change/fiddle with the EQ on each individual song......not > >cd but song! They HEAR everything that was intended to be heard and maybe > >more?>> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 20:33:44 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: 6:30 pm (NJC) Do be careful, Wally. "No park is worth dying for" - -John Lennon to the protesters at People's Park There are large forces at work. Stay out from under the wheels. Wally Kairuz wrote: > several mcdonald's and at least one citibank are burning in downtown buenos > aires. the red cross has just reported that 6 young protesters were killed > this afternoon at the mayo square, where people are still demonstrating > against the state of siege. > businesses have closed down. as from 12 midnight, workers will go on strike > indefinitely, bringing the country to a stop. > the opposition has refused to form a coalition government and the president > has resigned. > as i write, the city is preparing itself for a night of barricades and > tension. i have decided to join the protesters. i can't stay home and watch > how my country crumbles. i have always been a political person and it is my > duty and my joy to fight for my beliefs. > i will be signing off now. thank you for your love and your concern. we'll > be meeting again on a brighter day. > wally ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 20:41:41 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Lord of the rings NJC I won't be seeing it. I knew as soon as I saw the commercials. Hobbits are little furry guys- sorta more like squirrels. Definitely not people. The books have given me such rich images. They don't match the clips I've seen at all. And no Tom Bombadil? Also Liv Tyler's character was almost entirely made up. And what about the elves? Tall, whispy light creatures. And the dwarves...etc...Gollum... Nope. Actors can't get there. RR sprout@eircom.net wrote: > Mark and everyone else, i can now talk about the movie, Chris Marshall is probably just coming out of the cinema in or around Cambridge. > It was for the most part visually stunning, atmospherically impressive and truly captivating. I am coming from the point of view of a fan, of course. Elijah *is* Frodo. > Jackson's vision of Middle Earth is perhaps as close to Tolkiens own vision as we'll ever see. There are some very funny moments (i'm trying to say little, in order to maintain suspense for those not in the know!) > > Tom Bombadil is not in this movie. I guess he isn't entirely relevant to the advancement of the story, but it is such a wonderful little chapter. The film kept all of the key features and characters from the book. The immense detail the novel indulges in, of course, had to be cut down some for a cinematic venture. If one had not read the books, ones understanding might have been a little marred. My sister really had to concentrate at some points to keep it all straigh in her head, not so much as to render much negativity on the film. I mean, there is a serious of encounters with strnage named characters in strange named places (i.e Arwen and Elrond in Rivendell; Galadriel in Lothlorien) that are central to the plot. In the book a fair amount of time and detail is devoted to all of this, but in the film these are merely fleeting episodes. This isn't necesarily a bad thing, it is probably needed to maintain the pace of film. AT just under three hours, it was imperative! > for Peter Jackson to keep everything moving and interesting. And yes, he really succeeded. > > The musical score i found to be moving, a little contrived at times, but very moving. When i heard that Enya sings on the soundtrack i was disappointed, but it is very well crafted. I bought the soundtrack a week ago, but i havnet listend to it yet. I really will do so soon! > > Have i just concentrated on the downside(s)?? I think i'll need to see it again to fully digest the film. It is faithful and satisfying. A little more Explained than the book, if you know what i mean, but still, a wonderful film based on an amazing book. Jackson is not ripping us off; he is not cheating us. The disappointments i expressed here are probably inevitable considering my feelings for the book. These dissapointmenst were outweighed by the adept acting (very cute cast! hehe), great great great scenery,generally exciting visuals (wow Gollum!! wow!!, but the Balrog boohoo), and an amazingly brilliant source novel. > anyone else??? Chris? Debra?? GO on and see it Mark. Even Liv Tyler is good!!! > GARRET ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:47:26 -0500 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: 6:30 pm (NJC) Take care, my friend...and do let us hear from you. May brighter days grace us all. Love from Janet and Deanna Ivy the Wonderkitty, who sends her beams toward your cause from her dream world on the love seat - -------------- You've got to shake your fists at lightning now You've got to roar like forest fire You've got to spread your light like blazes All across the sky Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 01:52:52 EST From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Re: 6:30 pm (NJC) In a message dated 12/20/01 5:06:38 PM, AsharaJM@aol.com writes: >Wally, PLEASE be CAREFUL, and write often so we know you are OK!!!!! Sending >lots and lots of light your way. amen! I'm worried about you. "reading the news and it sure looks bad" indeed. everything I see seems to show that things are getting worse there. be very careful, please. Mary K People hurry by so quickly Don't they hear the melodies In the chiming and the clicking And the laughing harmonies - - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #606 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?