From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #599 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, December 17 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 599 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Don't forget to include your preference i.e. light or dark or a mixture [colin ] Joni on TJ's show... [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] virus again? ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: virus again? ["hell" ] Re: Come in from the cold (NJC) ["hell" ] Re: notches liberation doll ["hell" ] Re: Don't forget to include your preference i.e. light or dark or a mixture [IVPAUL42@aol] Re: Sounds as colors, etc. (njc) ["hell" ] Re: Don't forget to include your preference i.e. light or dark or a mixture [IVPAUL42@ao] NJC - A Wonderful Concept ["Ron Greer" ] Recall: NJC - A Wonderful Concept ["Ron Greer" ] "By the time we got to woodstock, I'd already written the song..." [BigWa] NJC - A Wonderful Concept ["Ron Greer" ] modern music/joni ["Ron Greer" ] VIRUS ALERT!!! Don't open attachments!! ["J. R. Mills" ] Re: Sounds as colors, etc. (njc) [RobSher50@aol.com] Re: Sting in Tuscany [RobSher50@aol.com] Re: Chocolate (NJC) ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Godspell/Laura Nyro NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: O Murphy,Murphy! Wherefore art thou Murphy?NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Don't forget to include your preference i.e. light or dark or a mixture ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: synesthesia (njc) [RobSher50@aol.com] december 16!!!!! (njc) [Lori in MD ] Seeing double? ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: sounds as colors, etc. (njc) [RobSher50@aol.com] Re: O Murphy,Murphy! Wherefore art thou Murphy?NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Sounds as colors, etc. (njc) ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Don't forget to include your preference i.e. light or darkor a mixture [colin ] Re: Sounds as colors, etc. (njc) [colin ] Re: virus again? ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: notches liberation doll and that serpent [Murphycopy@aol.com] dreaming of ashara (njc) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: notches liberation doll and that serpent [colin ] Re: notches liberation doll and that serpent 9njc) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: notches liberation doll and that serpent [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: dreaming of ashara (njc) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: notches liberation doll and that serpent ["blonde in the bleachers" <] Re: notches liberation doll and that serpent [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: notches liberation doll and that serpent [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: notches liberation doll [Lori in MD ] Re: Chocolate (NJC) [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: notches liberation doll [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: notches liberation doll and that serpent [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] joni and sting [WARREN901@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:55:15 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Don't forget to include your preference i.e. light or dark or a mixture According to a novel I am readin, California has the highest state population. is this true? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:58:06 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: O Murphy,Murphy! Wherefore art thou Murphy?NJC > OK, everybody. Bree has my address now. The chocolates are mine, I tell you > -- MINE! And of course I will share with you, Ashara. Let's meet halfway and > eat the whole box! We can have a chocolate mini Joni fest! You can come too, > Paz. I'll pick you up at Logan on my way to Ashara's. Now really! Where is your self control? No sugar has passed my lips for a month and do I miss it? not one bit. (denial is always a good defence!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:00:02 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Don't forget to include your preference i.e. light or darkor a mixture > All very well and good, but I can testify as an eye witness that both Ashara > and Sal almost buckled at the knees when they were introduced - by me - to > Roger's Chocolates in Victoria, B.C. They've been making and selling > chocolates in this small shop since 1885 - I swear you can gain five pounds > just by opening the door and smelling the air. > Dark, semi-sweet chocolate, of course ;-) what are you trying to do? are you ganging up on me? Why the torture? Not that i like chocolate-horrible icky things............ someone else must have typed that....... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 01:10:52 -0800 (PST) From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: To provide a link to another Type some text. AUTOTEXT bullet Error! AutoText entry not defined. Add a list item. AUTOTEXT bullet Error! AutoText entry not defined. Add a list item. AUTOTEXT bullet Error! AutoText entry not defined. Add a list item. Type some text. AUTOTEXT line Error! AutoText entry not defined. Related Page 1 | Related Page 2 | Related Page 3. [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of click.exe] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 04:19:12 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Joni on TJ's show... Hi, gang, A couple of people have mentioned Tom Jones' show from the late 60's/early 70's -- am I crazy, or do i remember Joni singing "For Free" on the show -- one of my earliest memories of her, and the first time I ever saw her on TV. (Forgive me if this has already been asked an answered -- chaos reigns here, and I've several days behind on the digests again. Just curious, walt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 06:11:48 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: virus again? i'm not labeling this message njc because it might concern everybody. another virus may have hit the jmdl or at least some members' computers. i've just received weird messages from julius and from one rebecca cintron [i think that was the last name]. the messages had attachments -- julius had been removed before i got it. wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:32:22 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: virus again? Wally wrote: > i'm not labeling this message njc because it might concern everybody. > another virus may have hit the jmdl or at least some members' computers. > i've just received weird messages from julius and from one rebecca cintron > [i think that was the last name]. the messages had attachments -- julius had > been removed before i got it. Yeah, me too. Everyone update your virus checkers immediately! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:34:11 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Come in from the cold (NJC) Kakki wrote (among other things): > Wally's mention of Patagonia - I always figured if there are penguins > around - we are talking serious cold! Not necessarily. I spent a day once in Wellington (not that cold at all) pulling baby penguins out of nests (very carefully, they bite) to put tracking bands around their ankles. There are signs around the beach roads there, to "Watch for penguins crossing"! We get them in Auckland, too. Hell P.S. Penguin nests smell BAD! ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:36:26 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: notches liberation doll Wally wrote: > i've always thought that she meant, ''you're not a person to me, you're just > notches on my gun.'' as in you're just onemore broad that has put out. That's always how I've interpreted it too - that whole song seems to be Joni defending the whole women's rights movement to a very chauvanistic male, who has an answer for everything. "We walked on the moon - you be polite", in other words, "MAN walked on the moon, not women, so show some respect." I've always wondered who the man in question actually was. Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 05:32:41 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Don't forget to include your preference i.e. light or dark or a mixture In a message dated 12/17/01 1:37:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, roberto1011@hotmail.com writes: > Yours in chocolate...... > > : Peterbrooke Chocolatier Jacksonville, Florida ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:44:31 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Sounds as colors, etc. (njc) Sherelle wrote: > Dear Mark, > You're not warped. You have always been wonderful! I wonder how many others > have had the strange feeling that their brains function a little differently > than most? I'm a bit late replying to this one, but I've always seen numbers in my head in a weird way. Number 1 starts where 5 would be on a clock, and goes clockwise round to ten, which is where 12 o'clock would be. Eleven through nineteen are in a straight line to the right from ten, then turn at right angles at twenty (heading down). It straightens up to the right again at 30, then follows through to 100 like a snakes and ladders board (chutes and ladders?!) 101 - 110 are in a straight line again, but heading left from 100, then 110 - 200 are the same configuration as 30 -100. Negatives are in a straight line back to the right from one. I know, I know, I'm STRANGE! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 05:37:36 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Don't forget to include your preference i.e. light or dark or a mixture In a message dated 12/17/01 3:54:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: > According to a novel I am readin, California has the highest state > population. > is this true? Yes, I think it is true that more Californians get high than people from any other state, though it's not something you can confirm in the World Almanac or U.S. Census reports. Paul I ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:40:08 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: NJC - A Wonderful Concept hi while browsing around the web looking for some rather obscure music, i came across a website which has a truly wonderful concept. the site is www.3rdearmusic.com and they run what is referred to as the "hidden years music arch ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:40:35 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: Recall: NJC - A Wonderful Concept Ron Greer would like to recall the message, "NJC - A Wonderful Concept". ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 05:43:44 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: "By the time we got to woodstock, I'd already written the song..." Hi, gang, Speaking of Joni in fiction, don't you always love it when, in writing about the late sixties, Woodstock (the event) is almost always mentioned, and inevitably, the writer always describes a hush in the crowd as Joni walks onto the stage, and then proceeds to sing the song. As if (a) she'd actually attended, and (b) she'd already written the song before Woodstock had actually happened. Also -- unrelated -- but since CMIARS has been mentioned a lot lately -- frequently as many people's "worst Joni" album -- didn't anyone else like "Snakes and Ladders"? I thought it was the best song on the album. Admittedly, the theme wasn't exactly new -- rise and fall of a marriage -- but I love the call and response thing going on between Joni and Don Henley. She certainly was into call-and-response on that album, and i remember a fellow Joniphile complaining that she wasn't writing songs anymore -- just dialogs. Anyway, saying "joni's worst album" is like saying "the worst orgasm i ever had was..." warmly, walt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:46:23 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: NJC - A Wonderful Concept hi sorry - i hit the send button by accident - i thought id got the hang of this touchpad - but obviously not yet!! while browsing around the web looking for some rather obscure music, i came across a website which has a truly wonderful concept. the site is www.3rdearmusic.com and they run what is referred to as the "hidden years music archive". basically what they do is buy or lease the masters of old, and/or out of print albums, then make cd copies of these masters available to anyone who is interested. kind of like a legal trading site :-) i have already managed to get hold of some music by some of my old favourites who had their music banned during the "glory" years of apartheid. this site is a south african site, & therefore has predominantly only south african music available - i just thought the concept was so remarkable i had to share it. ron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:07:42 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: modern music/joni hi I remember that time you told me you said "Love is touching souls" Surely you touched mine 'Cause part of you pours out of me so there i was last night - not feeling like sleeping, watching all the sexy young things doing their thing on the late night music channel, cause there was nothing else to do. then it struck me - how very close they were to joni's lines above, possibly the most beautiful song verse ever written,....... except,,, instead of "souls",,,,,,, substitute "holes" oh hell, perhaps theyre not that close after all :-) ron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 03:21:21 -0800 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: VIRUS ALERT!!! Don't open attachments!! My computer has been attacked by an awful virus. I've been trying to figure the nature of it. It appears to be "VBS/Loveletter..." What ever you do, DO NOT OPEN ANY ATTACHMENTS from my email address. Delete the mail immediately and empty your recycle bin! More info as soon as I can locate same. A thousand apologies. I don't know how this happened. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 06:23:40 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Come in from the cold (NJC) In a message dated 12/17/2001 5:28:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: > I spent a day once in Wellington (not that cold at all) > pulling baby penguins out of nests (very carefully, they bite) to put > tracking bands around their ankles. There are signs around the beach roads > there, to "Watch for penguins crossing"! We get them in Auckland, too. > Are they related to DINGOS??????? ;-) Hugs, Ashara {ducking} ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 06:38:05 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Chocolate (NJC) Bree said: <> Kakki said: <> And Roberto said: <> And Paul chimed in with: <> Now me: Now, now, no fighting kids. I never met a piece of chocolate I didn't like. (Although I truly believe the secret to my relationship with Sal is that he likes the soft centers, which I don't particularly care for, and I like the nuts and caramels.) Let's settle everything once and for all. Everyone can just send me the best chocolate from their area, and I will decide! ;-) Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 07:55:51 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: virus again? I got the same message, beware... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:33:36 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Humor, NJC Johnson Victor wrote: > > There's also a Beaver University but just recently, in the past year, I > think there was a move to change the name to something else...I'm not sure > where it's located, but I heard about out on a morning talk show. It's Beaver College in the UK. They did change their name because their web site was being blocked by school and library Internet computers with filters. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:46:27 EST From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: Sounds as colors, etc. (njc) Dear Colin, Sorry I'm late getting back to your post. What a wonderful, peaceful dream to have. I am so happy that the dream came to pass. Sherelle In a message dated 12/15/2001 3:11:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: > I remember once I was VERY scared, and awaiting results which would tell me > if I > had cancer or not. I went into a dream like state and a hand, bathed in > light, > passed me an envelope. i opened it and it was 'exam results' which said > 'pass'. > My cancer test came back negative. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:29:25 EST From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: Sting in Tuscany Dear Kate, My husband and I were able to watch it as well and we were both very moved by it. My husband was also amazed at how he reinvented his own songs. I agree with you wholeheartedly in your comparison with Joni. I thought that he had worked with her at one time, but I am not certain of that fact. Sherelle In a message dated 12/17/2001 12:04:31 AM Pacific Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:05:55 -0800 > From: "Kate Bennett" > > Subject: Sting in Tuscany > > I was able to watch the last 2/3 of this concert & its being replayed on > Dec > 22 on A&E. If I were to pick a solo performer who the male version of Joni > I > think it would be Sting. Intelligent, literate artists with jazz > influences. > Both very attractive too. I remember reading that Joni loved the Police & I > imagine that Sting must have great respect for Joni. Has he ever said > anything about her? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:02:13 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Chocolate (NJC) >Let's settle everything once and for all. Everyone can >just send me the best chocolate from their area, and I will decide! ;-) > >Hugs, >Ashara Be careful what you ask for..... you just might get it!! Candy is on its way........I hope you are inundated from every lister with their "best" regional candy. Like the e-mail either Gary or Steve sent me "Now you can REALLY SIT AROUND the house while eating your chocolate" ;-) Also,Murphy came through with his address......so thank you to all the volunteers. I know it would have been such a sacrifice? Bree NP: To TELL THE TRUTH........A MATZO BALL eating champion? WHo turned out to be the contestant of African American descent! _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:09:52 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Godspell/Laura Nyro NJC Billy, Here's the answer to your question: In the music book for Godspell, "Bless The Lord" is described as "a la Laura Nyro". It's a gospelly rave-up number, hence the reference. Apparantly, in some printings of the book, it says "Laura Lyro". Bob NP: Collective Soul, "Heaven's Already Here" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:10:58 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: O Murphy,Murphy! Wherefore art thou Murphy?NJC In a message dated 12/17/01 3:56:45 AM, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: << Where is your self control? >> I dunno. I don't think I lost it, I just never had it! By the way, Colin, happy birthday! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:16:50 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Don't forget to include your preference i.e. light or dark or a mixture >According to a novel I am readin, California has the highest state >population. >is this true? I would think so? But then you have New York and Big, BIG Texas. Kakki would know better than I. Bree _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:22:31 -0800 (PST) From: Lori in MD Subject: Re: notches liberation doll Mary Powers wrote: > in anima rising, when Joni sings "you're just notches liberation doll" > what does that mean? I know what each word means, but putting it together > confuses me. Even though Joni prefers not to label herself "feminist," IMHO "Don't Interrupt the Sorrow" is truly a feminist song. I've always understood the phrase "You're notches liberation doll" to be a man's put-down to a woman, something like: "Regardless of your attempts to be equal, you are and always will be just notches on a bed post." However, JM reminds men that, regardless of their attitudes, the times they are a'changin' ... "Truth goes up in vapors The steeples lean Winds of change patriarchs Snug in your bible belt dreams" Regarding "Anima rising," check out this link on the JMDL site: http://www.jmdl.com/glossary/animarising.cfm Lori in MD ~ Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctionsfor all of your holiday gifts! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:22:28 EST From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: synesthesia (njc) Dear Mary, (Sorry I am a little late in replying to your post) I can't tell you what a debt of gratitude I owe you for researching this. It means more to me than you will ever know. Many here have been able to build fruitful, productive lives in spite of not understanding their synesthesia. I have not been able to do that. Accomplishing goals have been extremely difficult for me, yet I have painfully pushed on anyway. Too many details to bore you with, but a lot of uncertainty about "who," and "why" I am. It feels good to know that I am not a "mistake" or an "accident." The rational mind tries to know better, but does not always succeed. It may seem like a little thing, but your action has planted such a good seed in my life and I thank you. Love, Sherelle In a message dated 12/15/2001 12:05:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:17:03 EST > From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com > Subject: synesthesia (njc) > > hi Sherelle, > > I was struck by your comment that "I am thrilled to know that I wasn't > nuts!" > re: synesthesia. I was reading the info on the link I sent to the list and > > I was interested to see this: > > 9. The Rejection Of Direct Experience > > 9.1 My usual response to those who ask if synesthesia is "real" is, "Real > to > whom? To you, or to those who experience it?" Questioning its reality > without > first having some technological confirmation shows how ready we are to > reject > any first-hand experience. We are addicted to the external and the > rational. > Our insistence on a third-person, "objective" understanding of the world > has > just about swept aside all other forms of knowledge. > > 9.2 In the course of studying MW, for example, we came to a point of using > invasive and rather sophisticated technology when he became frightened, not > > that we might uncover some medical abnormality, but because a machine might > > prove that his synesthesia wasn't real. MW was ready to accept the > judgement > of a machine over his lifetime of first-hand experience. This is a > remarkable > commentary. > > 9.3 When we think of our brains, we usually think of a computer, a > reasoning > machine in our heads that runs things. This is consistent with the > hierarchical model. But emotion - which word I use to include irrational, > a-rational, and non-verbal knowledge and cognition - is what actually > directs > our thoughts and actions. Like the Wizard of Oz, it is our a-rational inner > > life that pulls the levers behind the curtain. Our inner knowledge behind > the > curtain is largely inaccessible to introspective language, which means that > > what we feel about something is more valid than what we think or say about > that something. > > 9.4 Reason is just the endless paperwork of the mind. The heart of our > creativity is our direct experience and the salience that our limbic brain > gives it. Allowing it to be that does not stop us from overlaying rational > considerations on it - after which we can talk, recount, explain, > interpret, > and analyze to our heart's content. > > from http://psyche.cs.monash.edu.au/v2/psyche-2-10-cytowic.html > > I think those of us on this list can see beyond "the external and the > rational". I hope I can anyway. I mean, that stuff is great and truly > essential, but I don't think it's everything. > > Mary ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:23:59 -0800 (PST) From: Lori in MD Subject: december 16!!!!! (njc) Colin, I'm a day late, but ... HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!! Hope it was wonderful! Lori ~ Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctionsfor all of your holiday gifts! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:24:17 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Seeing double? Is anyone out there getting double posts? Two of the same post? I'm not getting two of everybodys, but about half of the posts. NO!! I haven't had a drink for at least 24 hours. (but I might very shortly if I don't figure this out) :-) Bree _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:28:34 EST From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: sounds as colors, etc. (njc) Dear Walt, I wrote this to Mary: "It may seem like a little thing, but your action has planted such a good seed in my life and I thank you." I would like to include you in this debt of gratitude for the website you provided. I apologize for omitting you or anyone else who relayed research on Synesthesia. You are wonderful! Sherelle In a message dated 12/15/2001 12:05:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > Dear Walt, > > I'm behind on my digests as well, but I am thrilled to know that I wasn't > > nuts! Thanks so much for easing my mind! > > Aahh, no, not nuts at all. I'd say you're in excellent company of the > most sensitive and perceptive kind. Here's some info about Wassily > Kandinsky, whose book "Concerning the Spiritual in Art" includes his > ideas about the effect of colors and music on one's soul. > > From http://www.oir.ucf.edu/wm/paint/auth/kandinsky/: ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:31:38 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: O Murphy,Murphy! Wherefore art thou Murphy?NJC >Now really! Where is your self control? No sugar has passed my lips for a >month >and do I miss it? not one bit. (denial is always a good defence!) What did you substitute for the chocolate,Colin? com'on NOBODY can give up chocolate with out a substitution!! What did you find to suck on instead? Bree ;-) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:36:54 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Don't forget to include your preference i.e. light or darkor a mixture > > Roger's Chocolates in Victoria, B.C. They've been making and selling > > chocolates in this small shop since 1885 - I swear you can gain five >pounds > > just by opening the door and smelling the air. > > Dark, semi-sweet chocolate, of course ;-) > >what are you trying to do? are you ganging up on me? Why the torture? Not >that i >like chocolate-horrible icky things............ > >someone else must have typed that....... LOL,Colin!! I won't touch this one!~ Bree _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:45:08 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: notches liberation doll In a message dated 12/17/01 11:24:03 AM, lrfye58@yahoo.com writes: << I've always understood the phrase "You're notches liberation doll" to be a man's put-down to a woman, something like: "Regardless of your attempts to be equal, you are and always will be just notches on a bed post." >> But the words are "YOUR notches," not "YOU'RE notches." And I always thought the man was disdainfully referring to the previous line ("A room full of glasses") and then telling the woman that those empty glasses were her notches, as in, "You think you're so great, but all you've done is get loaded and / or get me loaded." In any case, there is a lot of drinking going on in this song. I do agree 100% that the man is belittling the woman in a men-are-superior way. Still waiting for chololates from Bree, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:55:20 -0600 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Re: notches liberation doll Bob wrote: "But the words are "YOUR notches," not "YOU'RE notches." And I always thought the man was disdainfully referring to the previous line ("A room full of glasses") and then telling the woman that those empty glasses were her notches." I'm glad you brought this up - I was beginning to wonder just what the exact words were - Your and You're give two entirely different meanings to the line. I always understood it the same as Bob. It's like he's addressing her as "liberation doll" and pointing out her "notches" - a definite put down in any case. Sybil _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:59:59 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Sounds as colors, etc. (njc) > > have had the strange feeling that their brains function a little >differently > > than most? > >I'm a bit late replying to this one, but I've always seen numbers in my >head >in a weird way. Number 1 starts where 5 would be on a clock, and goes >clockwise round to ten, which is where 12 o'clock would be. Eleven through >nineteen are in a straight line to the right from ten, then turn at right >angles at twenty (heading down). It straightens up to the right again at >30, then follows through to 100 like a snakes and ladders board (chutes and >ladders?!) 101 - 110 are in a straight line again, but heading left from >100, then 110 - 200 are the same configuration as 30 -100. Negatives are >in >a straight line back to the right from one. > >I know, I know, I'm STRANGE! > >Hell Science needs to study you! Very, very interesting. I just think of #'s as they are, you know.......1 2 3............. I'm not a bit creative..........I wonder if this is why I think so boringly (new word?) and straight? I wonder about Joni? Bree >____________________________ >"To have great poets, there must be >great audiences too." - Walt Whitman > >hell@ihug.co.nz >Hell's Personal Photo Page: >http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm > >Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: >http://www.nbls.co.nz _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:06:58 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Don't forget to include your preference i.e. light or dark or a mixture >According to a novel I am readin, California has the highest state > > population. > > is this true? > >Yes, I think it is true that more Californians get high than people from >any >other state, though it's not something you can confirm in the World Almanac >or U.S. Census reports. > >Paul I >;>) Paul, I thought it was O HI O Bree _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:12:24 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Don't forget to include your preference i.e. light or dark or a mixture At 08:55 AM 12/17/2001 +0000, colin wrote: > > According to a novel I am readin, California has the highest state > population. > is this true? It sure seems that way whenever I drive or take public transportation. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:15:40 EST From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: Re: Godspell/Laura Nyro NJC SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: In the music book for Godspell, "Bless The Lord" is described as "a la Laura Nyro". It's a gospelly rave-up number, hence the reference. (end) Whew, another mystery finally solved! Thank you, Bob. I appreciate your research. And thanks again to everyone who answered my '3 Questions' post. You were all a big help. :-) XXXOOO, Billy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:22:11 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: O Murphy,Murphy! Wherefore art thou Murphy?NJC > What did you find to suck on instead? I am so glad someone else wrote this! Actually nothing except my fags but i have sucked on those since I was 15. > > > Bree ;-) > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:25:34 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Sounds as colors, etc. (njc) > I know, I know, I'm STRANGE! in other circumstances i would try and convince you that of course you are not strange. But having read what you do with numbers I just can't bring myself to. > > > Hell > ____________________________ > "To have great poets, there must be > great audiences too." - Walt Whitman > > hell@ihug.co.nz > Hell's Personal Photo Page: > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm > > Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: > http://www.nbls.co.nz - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:26:31 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Don't forget to include your preference i.e. light or darkor a mixture IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/17/01 3:54:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, > colin@tantra-apso.com writes: > > > According to a novel I am readin, California has the highest state > > population. > > is this true? > > Yes, I think it is true that more Californians get high than people from any > other state, though it's not something you can confirm in the World Almanac > or U.S. Census reports. it's probably living with daily threat of anihilation that does it..... > > > Paul I > ;>) - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:28:20 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: notches liberation doll > Snug in your bible belt dreams" > I've always heard this as 'bible belfrys'. thanks for the correction! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:30:19 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Sounds as colors, etc. (njc) So am I! Desoite the dream, i was still sick at the Dr's office waiting to be told. RobSher50@aol.com wrote: > Dear Colin, > Sorry I'm late getting back to your post. What a wonderful, peaceful dream to > have. I am so happy that the dream came to pass. > > Sherelle > > In a message dated 12/15/2001 3:11:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, > colin@tantra-apso.com writes: > > > I remember once I was VERY scared, and awaiting results which would tell me > > if I > > had cancer or not. I went into a dream like state and a hand, bathed in > > light, > > passed me an envelope. i opened it and it was 'exam results' which said > > 'pass'. > > My cancer test came back negative. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:30:51 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: virus again? >Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 07:55:51 EST > >I got the same message, beware... I too got these, one from Julius and Rebecca......but did not open the attachments. But am getting double posts anyway. Are you getting two of some posts? Bree _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:36:04 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: notches liberation doll and that serpent And how about the line, "He chains me with that serpent to that Ethiopian wall?" I know that we can all guess what "that serpent" is, although Joni would probably deny it, as she did with "boom boom pachyderm." But what is an Ethiopian wall, aside from a wall in Ethiopia? Is this a reference to poetry or literature that I'm not getting? Thanks, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:36:40 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: dreaming of ashara (njc) I know that many of you dream of Joni, but last night I dreamed that I still lived in Rhode Island and that Ashara moved into the apartment upstairs from me. All of Ashara's sons were off at school and she had daughter who was about 5 years old named Carol. That's all I remember. So, does everyone dream of Ashara, or is it just me? --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:43:13 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: notches liberation doll and that serpent Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > And how about the line, "He chains me with that serpent to that Ethiopian > wall?" > > I know that we can all guess what "that serpent" is, although Joni would > probably deny it, as she did with "boom boom pachyderm." I dont' lknow what it means but i thought the serpent was stan. > But what is an > Ethiopian wall, aside from a wall in Ethiopia? Is this a reference to poetry > or literature that I'm not getting? > > Thanks, > > --Bob - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:45:24 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: dreaming of ashara (njc) > So, does everyone dream of Ashara, or is it just me? I have never dreamt of ashara but I dream of you Bob almost every night.......and you are not easy..... > > > --Bob - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:43:38 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: notches liberation doll and that serpent 9njc) In a message dated 12/17/01 12:40:50 PM, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: << I dont' lknow what it means but i thought the serpent was stan. >> Eminem's "Stan?" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:46:49 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: notches liberation doll and that serpent In a message dated 12/17/01 12:37:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, Murphycopy@aol.com writes: > But what is an > Ethiopian wall, aside from a wall in Ethiopia? Is this a reference to > poetry > or literature that I'm not getting? > I don't know either Bob, but I'd love to know. I did some research about these walls in Ethiopia. Before entering the city, today's traveler, like those of the past, has to pass through its famous 3,342 metre-long encircling wall, locally known as the Jogal. This structure was erected in the sixteenth century by one of the city's best remembered local rulers of medieval times, Nur ibn-Mujahid, who is said to have dug a defensive trench around the town. This wall, which ensured the city's safety in former days, is made of locally quarried, untrimmed Hashi stone or carcareous tuff, held together with mud, and reinforced with stout juniper planks. The walls of Harar were pierced in early times by five gates, a number supposed to symbolise the Five Pillars of Islam. These gates, known to the Hararis as bari, were situated respectively to the north, east, south-east, south, and west of the city. Each had its own distinctive name, and provided entry and egress to caravans travelling to and from different stretches of the surrounding country. Each of these gates thus played a different role in the economy of the city and of neighbouring lands. The northern gate, for example, was known as the Assum Bari, because it was used by traders importing assu, or pepper and salt, from the Gulf of Aden coast of Africa; while the eastern gate was called the Argob Bari because it served merchants handling the lucrative trade from Argobba, one of Ethiopia's inland regions. The gates of Harar in olden days were strongly guarded, and were strictly closed at night - for no one was allowed to enter or leave the city during the long hours of darkness. Strangers wishing to enter Harar in daytime had first to deposit their spears, guns and other arms with the city's guards, who would look after them scrupulously, and return them when their owners were ready to leave. The walls had, however, a number of holes placed to allow the drainage of water and sewage and to enable hyenas, who constituted the principal garbage collectors, to enter the settlement at night and leave it before the break of dawn. The subsequent integration of Harar into the greater Ethiopian realm led to the construction, in the twentieth century, of two additional gates. To the west, the Shewa gate, so called because it afforded access to the important Ethiopian province of that name; and also the Berbere Bari, called after Ethiopia's hot peppery spice which seems to have been handled in the area. The first of these gates is today by far the most used, for it links the Old and New Towns, while the Berbere Bari has long since been closed. Still very confused, can someone shed some light on this? Who was this song written about, anyone know? Did Joni know someone from this part of the world? Did she ever travel there? ~rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:50:17 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: dreaming of ashara (njc) In a message dated 12/17/01 12:44:09 PM, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: << you are not easy >> Hmm. Does "not easy" mean "not of easy virtue" or something more like "difficult?" --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:54:36 -0500 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: Re: notches liberation doll and that serpent "He chains me with that serpent to that Ethiopian wall" I have always looked at this line as: The serpent represents the man and his power over her, chaining her to that ethiopian wall as if he were the master and she the slave. >From: Murphycopy@aol.com >Reply-To: Murphycopy@aol.com >To: sybilskelton@hotmail.com, joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: notches liberation doll and that serpent >Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:36:04 EST > >And how about the line, "He chains me with that serpent to that Ethiopian >wall?" > >I know that we can all guess what "that serpent" is, although Joni would >probably deny it, as she did with "boom boom pachyderm." But what is an >Ethiopian wall, aside from a wall in Ethiopia? Is this a reference to poetry >or literature that I'm not getting? > >Thanks, > > --Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:02:47 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: notches liberation doll and that serpent <> I don't think it's necessarily a phallic reference, Bob, although it certainly can be interpreted that way. She makes reference in the song to the story of Adam & Eve: "Wash my guilt of Eden Wash and balance me" (this couplet follows her mention of the serpent) as well as other neo-religious references throughout. So the "serpent" can also be interpreted as the serpent in the Adam and Eve story; that is, the man is "pinning her with the serpent" or blaming women for the temptation and fall of man. The "Ethiopian Wall"...from what I understand, it's believed that the origins of man, at least the earliest cultures, were developed in this area, so I think it could be interpreted as saying that the man is forcing her to return to the (presumed) Biblical origins of man and rubbing THAT in her face too, much the same with the moon reference. What a great song...probably her most cryptic. Bob NP: Collective Soul, "Where The River Flows" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:11:32 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: notches liberation doll and that serpent In a message dated 12/17/01 1:02:48 PM, SCJoniGuy writes: << What a great song...probably her most cryptic. >> Thanks for the input, Bob. You're a regular professor of Joni! And as for the song being Joni's most cryptic, I remember when it first came out there was a DJ -- at a great Cambridge, Mass. radio station called WNTN, by the way -- who just kept playing the song over and over and then reading the lyrics on air and asking what it could possibly all mean. Thanks, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:30:42 -0800 (PST) From: Lori in MD Subject: Re: notches liberation doll Bob wrote: > But the words are "YOUR notches," not "YOU'RE notches." Depends on your reference. It's "your notches" here: http://www.jonimitchell.com/Hissing75LyricsHome.html and here: http://www.jmdl.com/howard/music/tab/sorrow.txt but it's "you're notches" here: http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/dontinterruptthesorrow.cfm I've always thought "your" was a typo. Anyone? Lori in MD NPIMH: "Snug in your bible belfry ..." ; ) ~ Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctionsfor all of your holiday gifts! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:33:36 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Chocolate (NJC) In a message dated 12/17/2001 11:02:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com writes: > Be careful what you ask for..... you just might get it!! Candy is on its > way........I hope you are inundated from every lister with their "best" > regional candy. Like the e-mail either Gary or Steve sent me "Now you can > REALLY SIT AROUND the house while eating your chocolate" ;-) > OMG, BREE!!!!!!!!! I was just kidding!!!!!! ACK!!!!!!!! If everyone did that, I'd be 2,000 pounds by Jonifest!! Hugs, Ashara {who secretly is delighted!!} Thanks, Bree! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:34:26 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: notches liberation doll In a message dated 12/17/01 1:30:49 PM, lrfye58@yahoo.com writes: << I've always thought "your" was a typo. Anyone? >> Ai, yi yi yi yi, as Ricky Ricardo would say. The mystery deepens! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:43:29 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: notches liberation doll and that serpent <> No way! I'm just making guesses like everyone else. Deciphering and discussing her lyrics is one of the joys of this group to me. I don't think Joni puts any of this stuff in at random. I think there are further references to her rejection of the Biblical man/woman relationships: "Truth goes up in vapors The steeples lean" The steeples lean, referring to a church, THE church, leaning...in other words, "crooked" or "not right". "Winds of change patriarchs Snug in your bible belt dreams" Here she turns the tables on her oppressor, refers to him as one of the Patriarchs of the Bible, but telling him that there are 'winds of change'. And what are "dreams" if not fantasy or the absence of reality? "God goes up the chimney Like childhood Santa Claus" This sounds to me like an exclamation point to the whole argument...God as a fantasy, compared to Santa Claus. Eve was promised by the serpent that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would gain wisdom. She & Adam both became "enlightened" by doing so. Another interesting reference: "I'm leaving on the 1:15 You're darn right" The Adam & Eve story is told in the book of Genesis. If you look at Genesis 1:15, it says: "and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. It's the part of the creation story where God creates light. Could it also be a reference to creating enlightenment? The female declaring her freedom from the religious oppression and saying "I've seen the light, I'm outta here"? Maybe so, maybe no... Bob NP: Phil Collins, "Everyday" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:16:09 EST From: WARREN901@aol.com Subject: joni and sting hi all, this is in response to kate's posting. kate i totally agree with everything you said about joni and sting. both of them are phenomenal in every way. ( looks and the likes...) i do beleive i remember reading once that sting cited joni as an influence. he went on to say that she was reponsible for opening the door for musicians with a jazz influence to the mainstream of pop. i beleive he was quoted as saying that joni was always leading the way for serious pop artists, a step ahead of the pack so to speak. if someone know this to be fact chime in... ( if he didn't say this he should have ! ) also someone mentioned joni concert stories, i saw the tour that resulted in " miles of aisles " in durham , nc ( duke, ) in 1973 and the BSN tour in atlanta in may of 2000.i was suppose to go to the " court and spark " tour in charlotte , nc but for reason that will remain a mystery i was unable to make it. anyway more on the concert stories later, i'm on my lunch hour... bye, warren keith ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #599 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?