From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #594 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, December 14 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 594 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: December 14 [les@jmdl.com] december 14!!!!!!!! NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Arthur Lee (Love) freed? (njc) [colin ] Re: Arthur Lee, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] Sister Marlena joke, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Covers #24 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Hiraeth (long) NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] Joni's 7 year song [Jennymac48@aol.com] RE: Joni & Anjelica ["Mary E. Pitassi" ] Re: contemplating Two Grey Rooms [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: extended shiny toys [very short but jc because it is about one of her son... [SCJoniGu] First USENET Mention of Joni (June 1982)? [Preet D ] Come in from the cold (NJC) ["Mary E. Pitassi" ] Re: Album coherence (was: That Ole Blue v. Hejira...)njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.] Welcome back, Evian! (njc) [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: hi all [AsharaJM@aol.com] RE: Later, Joni (or "Shoot me now, I'm middle aged") ["owen.duff" ] Re: Later, Joni (or "Shoot me now, I'm middle aged") [Murphycopy@aol.com] Diana Krall comes to Chicago [Merk54@aol.com] Angry men...(njc) [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] RE: Come in from the cold (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Did Dolby Eat Dog Eat Dog? ["Mike Hicks" ] 2 grey rooms ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Later, Joni (or "Shoot me now, I'm middle aged") (NJC) [Michael Yarbr] Re: contemplating Two Grey Rooms- Harold and Maude ["Sybil Skelton" ] RE: Sounds as colors/ rimbaud. (njc) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Sounds as colors, etc. (njc) [RobSher50@aol.com] Re: Sounds as colors, etc. (njc) [RobSher50@aol.com] Re: Sounds as colors/ rimbaud. (njc) [RobSher50@aol.com] NJC Re: 30-something -- River, I think...(sjc) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: contemplating Two Grey Rooms- Harold and Maude ["Bree Mcdonough" Subject: december 14!!!!!!!! NJC the MAGNIFICENTLY RESPLENDENT BENEVOLENT NOW DEMURE NOW INSOLENT JMDL BIRTHDAY FAIRY COMMANDS THAT YOU STOP WHATEVER MORTAL BANALITY YOU'RE DOING AND LISTEN: LISTEN TO THE BIRTHDAY FAIRY DECLARE DECEMBER 14 the birthday of galeano champion hiraeth explainer MIKE PRITCHARD! the man with the beautiful tear glands AND the welsh upper lip!!!!!!!! h a p p y b i r t h d a y pritch! signed: the BF, smiling benignly upon y'all mortal coilers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:55:40 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Arthur Lee (Love) freed? (njc) Than you. I have never heard of them them or him. Kakkie said he went to jail for 16 years for firing a gun into the air. what was the judge on? Wtking59@cs.com wrote: > Colin wrote: > who is arthur lee? > (end) > > Arthur Lee was the leader & founder of the classic band Love. > Their 1967 album "Forever Changes" is a bonafide, psychedelic classic. > Their "Da Capo" album is great too! > > XXXOOO, > Billy > > np--"Apartment Life" by Ivy - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:35:49 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Re: Arthur Lee, NJC > I cannot believe Arthur Lee was sentenced to 16 years for firing a gun into > the air!! I think shooting a gun in the air is a hideously irresponsible > thing to do and it unfortunately is done by a lot of people around New Years > and Fourth of July. But 16 years?? I doubt that all the others who do this > get a sentence like that. At least he is getting out and hopefully he will > play the clubs again. I would fall over to see him with his old bandmates. > > Kakki Well, maybe the fact that arthur is black didn't earn him sympathy from the judge. I'm mentioning this because from the record covers I always thought he was white but when I saw him in person I realized the (intentional?) deception in the photographs. Circa 91, Arthur was scheduled in a Santa Monica club. The first act band ends its show at about 10 pm. At 11 pm no sign of Arthur, people are getting impatient. The first act comes back on stage for another unexpected set. At midnight still no Arthur, we figure he won't come and people start leaving. Finally at 12:30 the door opens and Arthur staggers into the club. I mean he could barely walk and was obviously very high on something. I begin to seriously worry whether he'll be able to come on stage at all and what the result might be. About 30 minutes later he comes on stage. Much to my amazement he gave a very honorable performance, from the gut. Anyway I'm glad I waited when things looked bad. So check him out if you can. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:41:09 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Sister Marlena joke, NJC Sister Marlena entered the Monastery of Silence and the Abbot said, "Sister, this is a silent monastery. You are welcome here as long as you like, but you may not speak until I direct you to do so. Sister Marlena lived in the monastery for five years before the Abbot said to her, "Sister Marlena, you have been here for five years. You can speak two words." Sister Marlena said, "Hard bed." "I'm sorry to hear that," the Abbot said. "We will get you a better bed." After another five years, Sister Marlena was called by the Abbot. "You may say another two words, Sister Marlena." "Cold food," said Sister Marlena, and the Abbott assured her that the food would be better in the future. On her fifteenth anniversary at the monastery, the Abbott again called Sister Marlena into his office. "You may say two words today." "I quit," said Sister Marlena. "It is probably best", said the Abbott. "You've done nothing but bitch since you got here." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 07:51:09 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Covers #24 Covers #24 is great fun. Thanks again, Bob. It's so cool hearing somewhat obscure versions of Joni songs by other artists. Glad you're digging it, Billy...my pleasure to share! Obviously I think they're pretty cool as well, and the obscurity is seldom a reflection of the quality. I always find most of them to be quite good, which isn't hard considering the material they have to work with. Bob NP: Angie Stone, "Time of the Month" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:59:19 +0100 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re: Hiraeth (long) NJC 'Hiraeth' is a word that the Welsh say is untranslatable (at least into English) but is close (IMHO) to the Spanish/Catalan 'anhelo' in the sense of 'yearning' or 'longing'. Experts in other romance languages (BigWalt?) may confirm my suspicion that it has similar meanings there too. It also contains elements of 'lamentation', 'grief' and possibly most importantly, 'homesickness'. I say 'possibly' here because the Welsh have never really suffered a diaspora in the way that the Africans, Jews, Andaluz, Irish and others have, except to a much smaller extent. There are many Welsh people still living in Patagonia, Argentina in what was originally a Welsh settlement. Other Welsh emigrants went to north America, particularly to Pennsylvania. Scranton and Wilke's Barre were two places we were taught about in Welsh history as being Welsh 'centres' in the USA. 'Bryn Mawr', as in the University, is a Welsh phrase meaning 'Big Hill'. BTW 'mawr', meaning 'big', is not pronounced like 'more'; the vowel sounds like the 'o' in 'loud', or 'cow'. 'Hiraeth' is therefore lamenting the present because it is not like the glorious, mythical (possibly invented) past. I say 'possibly invented' because it is not at all clear if Welsh History is as 'truthful' as it is presented. One wonderful, Welsh historian, Gwyn Alf Williams, said that the poem 'Welsh History', which I posted recently, was "a fine poem which expresses some historical truths. It also sanctifies a monstrous historical lie". His thesis is that the historical presentation of Wales as an ancient society/culture of druids, bards, Arthurian knights etc is based on a wish to create an 'imagined community' as described in Benedict Anderson's wonderful book of that title. Imagining oneself as part of a community was often the beginning of nationalistic movements, based on the idea that "in the minds of each lives the image of their communion". Anderson states that "communities are to be distinguished, not by their falsity/genuineness, but by the style in which they are imagined". It is not important if the myths of origin, or histories of diasporas, or stories of persecution are historically true or not; what is important, for Anderson, is if they 'work' or not. Do they serve to unite people around a myth of origin, or whatever? As a strategy, does it serve a nationalistic purpose? Gwyn Alf Williams' thesis is that the Welsh have been guilty of creating an imagined community, and his book 'When Was Wales?' is an attempt to sort out the truth from the myth, if possible. His book is wonderfully written. Hiraeth is also wishing ahead to a bright future, a future which will return us to the glorious past so that we can live in an equally glorious present. This is, of course, paradoxical because, for me, wishing is future orientated and yearning is past orientated. Combine these two states of mind and time frames with the lamentation for the not-so-rosy present and we have key elements of hiraeth. The accent / intonation is on the first syllable. 'Hir' means 'long' (metaphorically as in 'longing' and literally in words like 'hirfys', middle or longest finger) and sounds like 'Kir' as in 'Kirschwasser' (which appears in Steely Dan's Babylon Sisters, I think). The first syllable does not sound like 'here' / 'hear'. To pronounce the second syllable correctly you need to imagine Sylvester the cat (Tweety Pie's tormentee) trying to say 'Ith Justith, just aeth/ithe?' Put them together and you have Hir/aeth. I repeat that this is just MY take on Hiraeth. I'd like to hear other welsh jonilistas' versions too, as well as Wally's songs. Kate, is this something like what you were trying to express in your song? I'll finish here for today but as a special reward I'll post a Welsh poem (in English) instead of Galeano on Monday. Have a great weekend. meic ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:21:00 EST From: Jennymac48@aol.com Subject: Joni's 7 year song I think she said once it took her 7 years to write 2 Grey Rooms ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 07:44:20 -0600 From: "Mary E. Pitassi" Subject: RE: Joni & Anjelica Rachael DeRoest (welcome, Rachael!!) wrote: "What about anjelica and joni and this tribute thing? I would not have imagined they really even knew each other. But that is very cool." Me now: well, as I think somebody's already mentioned, there IS the "Jack connection." Joni and Jack Nicholson appear to have been friends for quite some time, and Anjelica Huston and Jack were romantically involved for, what, 17 years in the 70's and 80's? So it makes sense to me that Joni and Anjelica would know each other, and then that they would take things one step further by forming a strong friendship of their own. Mary P. Madison, WI P.S. By the way, I must confess guiltily to always having been CONVINCED that Joni wrote "The Same Situation" for Jack Nicholson. However, there is, indeed, no evidence that I'm aware of that these two were ever anything other than good friends. Shucks. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:49:39 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: contemplating Two Grey Rooms In a message dated 12/13/01 10:00:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, pholden@iprimus.ca writes: << if you havent heard it yet, Bob will accomodate you np. Right bro? Just let him know and he will set you up with the goods. >> Sure...It's a 1983 BBC radio program called "My Top 12", where Joni talks about her favorite artists/songs and gets to play DJ. It was originally on a tape tree, I've transferred it to 2 CD's. If you just find that life has no meaning for you without them, by all means let me know. Bob NP: Bob Schneider, "2002" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:53:26 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: extended shiny toys [very short but jc because it is about one of her son... << i don't remember having heard an extended version of shiny toys. do we have that? >> Yes, it's indeed very cool, adds some additional sounds and whoops and such. Lama called it 'unreleased', but if I'm correct it was released as a European vinyl single/EP. I included it on "Flotsam & Jetsam" along with some other goodies from the 80's. Bob NP: Bob Schneider, "Oklahoma" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:59:54 +0000 From: Preet D Subject: First USENET Mention of Joni (June 1982)? Google (www.google.com), the Internet search engine and searchable USENET service, has now expanded their archive back to 1981. They have released a page announcing the expansion. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=joni+mitchell&start=10&hl=en&scoring=d&as_drrb=b&as_mind=1&as_minm=1&as_miny=1981&as_maxd=14&as_maxm=12&as_maxy=1984&rnum=19&selm=bnews.ihuxk.113 The URL for the Google annoucement is at: http://www.google.com/googlegroups/archive_announce_20.html preetd@bigfoot.com Londinium preetd@bigfoot.com http://preetd.web.com Phone - +44-(0)7092 159 959 Fax - +44-(0)7092 164 557 NP - NT - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:02:23 -0600 From: "Mary E. Pitassi" Subject: Come in from the cold (NJC) Kakki wrote: "And oh boohoohoo, I stood in line in the cold for 2 hours last night trying to get into the show and didn't make the cut ;-( " Kakki, I am trying very hard to be patient with all your comments about "the cold," but of course, you haven't really experienced "cold" until you've lived in Wisconsin. To give you a glimpse of how the other half lives: It's 28 degrees (Fahrenheit, for you Celsius types!), we haven't had ONE single "shovelable" snowfall this winter (knock on wood), and I'm practically turning cartwheels, thanking all that's good and holy for this very mild December. To put this in even greater perspective: I usually house-sit for a friend in December. His house is on a corner, and, when there's a serious snowfall, I have to shovel two long walks and a driveway. Usually in sub-zero temperatures, with a *substantial* wind-chill factor. This year it's all a walk in the park. Mary P. Madison - --And I walked TWENTY-SIX MILES TO SCHOOL IN A BLIZZARD, too!! ;-) P.S. This reminds me a little of my year in Madrid, Spain in the early 80's. It was 55 degrees F in January, and I was delighted!!! On the other hand, my very good friend from La Jolla barely came out of her room. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:02:48 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Album coherence (was: That Ole Blue v. Hejira...)njc << Well I don't know how kosher it is to re-post something you've posted before but that's never stopped me before. Bob Muller had an idea about a thematic thread in Court & Spark & I kinda ran with it: >> Thanks for the re-post, Mark...that was a great thread from a long way back. And a wonderful run you did, as always...I've always thought that sequencing plays a big part of C&S, HOSL, and DJRD. Bob NP: "Big Yellow Taxi", Rochester NY '98 ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2001 06:09:03 -0800 From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Welcome back, Evian! (njc) Hi Evian. So good to have you back. And I'm so happy about your cat! I was afraid the worst had happened (and it sounds like your cat would probably say that it was the worst :-) lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:15:34 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: hi all Rachael (WELCOME, RACHAEL!!) wrote: > BTW...does anyone knoew where you can by any posters/prints of her art work > As a matter of fact, Rachael, (and everyone else!) you can get a wonderful picture of Joni by one of our list members, Jack Merkel, and you can help out both the JMDL.com and JoniMitchell.com websites at the same time! Check it out by going to: http://www.jmdl.com/prints.cfm Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:14:54 -0000 From: "owen.duff" Subject: RE: Later, Joni (or "Shoot me now, I'm middle aged") >When did it become a crime to be middle aged? >What makes plodding rhythms, unadventurous melodies and cliched chord >sequences symptomatic of a middle aged artist? (Funny, I hear it more often >in younger performers who haven't yet hit their stride or found their voice.) It certainly is not a crime to be middle aged! All I was pointing out is that I like Joni best when she is innovating, as she has done so often and so successfully in her career. I don't see NRH or TTT as particularly innovative works, for the reasons I gave in both original posts. I agree that much music that charts today is just as deserving, if not more so, of that criticism. >Next time you wonder why Joni is reluctant to write or record new music, >think about this comment -- and about what our youth-obsessed culture and the >music business are doing to so many people who are not at all ready to be put >out to pasture. I don't really see myself as a part of that culture, my tastes are eclectic and defined by what I believe is good, not what is new. The fact that I loved TI and BSN and am eagerly awaiting the arrival of The Circle Game (if that's what Joni ends up entitling it) clearly demonstrates that. The fact that I even got into Joni (and Nick Drake and Keith Jarrett and Stevie Wonder etc.) surely demonstrates that. >I'm sure beach tar hasn't touched her blessed feet in decades. Why should she >be writing or singing about feelings or experiences that have nothing to do >with her current situation which is, um, middle age? OK, maybe I shouldn't have used the phrase "middle aged music", I didn't mean to cause offence, I merely was saying that overall I personally find NRH and TTT lacking in the essence of what makes Joni's music great. Admittedly, what makes her great is not youthfulness, bur her pioneering spirit. I don't care whether she's singing about beach tar on her feet or pension schemes so long as she finds a new, interesting, Joni way to say it. If you guys think that NRH and TTT achieve that then that's fine, bur I find those two albums staid and unexciting. I can't help that, it's my personal opinion and I see no reason not to voice it! Owen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:34:57 EST From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: Re: Arthur Lee (Love) freed? njc Kakki wrote: I cannot believe Arthur Lee was sentenced to 16 years for firing a gun into the air!! I think shooting a gun in the air is a hideously irresponsible thing to do and it unfortunately is done by a lot of people around New Years and Fourth of July. But 16 years?? (end) I don't know the details of his arrest and conviction, but I'll take your word for it Kakki. Of course you're right---16 years for firing into the air is nuts. God knows Grace Slick's never done time (yet), and she was shooting at cops for Christ-sakes! Not to mention that little 'near' incident at the White House with Tricky Dicky ;-D XXXOOO, Billy np--"Crown Of Creation" by Jefferson Airplane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:37:03 EST From: Reuben3rd@aol.com Subject: Re: John Mayer njc I heard him for the first time yesterday...good stuff! Reuben In a message dated Thu, 13 Dec 2001 7:33:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Kate Bennett" writes: > Just heard about this guy from some friends who were raving about his cd & a > show he just did here last week... > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett > www.katebennett.com > sponsored by Polysonics > Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: > http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html > ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:42:15 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: John Mayer njc << I heard him for the first time yesterday...good stuff! >> And if you should happen to find his first (now OOP) CD, pick it up...it sells for about $150 on E-Bay! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:18:26 EST From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: Re: Latter-day Joni All this discussion about Joni's albums (this one is better than that one) has me wanting to scream out "they all have their moments!" Love NRH ("Two Grey Rooms" & title track are fabulous, "Slouching..." & "PPlay" great). Love CMIARS ("My Secret Place" fab, "Lakota" & "Number One" grt.). Love DED ("Three Great Stimulents" & title track grt. songs). Love TTT ("H In Havana"--reminds me of "Cotton Ave" too--"Stay In Touch" fab, "Crazy Cries..." & "Love Puts On..."--even "Lead Baloon"--her 'hardest' song--all grt.). Love WTRF ("Chinese Cafe" & "Underneath St. Lights" fab)...IMO :-) Over all, maybe not as groundbreaking as the seminal 60's/70's work, but they still have great merit and at least moments of profound brilliance. I could never write-off one single album. Love 'em all. XXXOOO, Billy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:37:36 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: partial solar eclipse & Geminid meteors njc It's rainy here today in New Jersey, so I doubt we'll even see the annular solar eclipse amidst all these rain clouds. I couldn't even see the Geminid meteor showers last night:( Damn!!!! Did anyone else see them? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:14:59 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Arthur Lee (Love) freed? njc > I don't know the details of his arrest and conviction, but I'll take your > word for it Kakki. Of course you're right---16 years for firing into the air > is nuts. > God knows Grace Slick's never done time (yet), and she was shooting at cops > for Christ-sakes! Not to mention that little 'near' incident at the White > House with Tricky Dicky ;-D > > XXXOOO, > Billy One of my uncles was once arrested for shooting a gun from a rooftop, but he did no time. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:31:45 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Later, Joni (or "Shoot me now, I'm middle aged") In a message dated 12/14/01 9:18:42 AM, owen.duff@ntlworld.com writes: << OK, maybe I shouldn't have used the phrase "middle aged music", I didn't mean to cause offence, I merely was saying that overall I personally find NRH and TTT lacking in the essence of what makes Joni's music great. Admittedly, what makes her great is not youthfulness, bur her pioneering spirit. I don't care whether she's singing about beach tar on her feet or pension schemes so long as she finds a new, interesting, Joni way to say it. If you guys think that NRH and TTT achieve that then that's fine, bur I find those two albums staid and unexciting. I can't help that, it's my personal opinion and I see no reason not to voice it! >> Hi, Owen: I agree that you should be able to speak your mind here. It *was* the term "middle aged music" I found objectionable. I think that life in our times is becoming horribly out of balance and shallow because of our culture's tragic disdain for people who are no longer young. Because of that, I try to be on guard about making disparaging comments or having negative thoughts about people based solely upon age. People who would never utter anything remotely racist, sexist or homophobic think nothing of making ageist slights. Why? Because everywhere we look, we get the message over and over again through the media and our culture that young is good and old is bad. Who has more to offer humanity, Joni or Britney? Put them both on TV tonight and which one gets clobbered in the ratings? I know I'm preaching to the choir here, Owen, but that happens sometimes when I rant! I have enjoyed your posts and look forward to more. In closing, I'd like to say that I love what Mark wrote about this issue: << One of my contentions about TTT (which I happen to love) is that if you haven't lived it, you probably aren't gonna get it. You might, but probably not. >> Take care, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:32:19 EST From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Diana Krall comes to Chicago I just got word that Diana Krall will be playing the accoustically mah-vel-ous Chicago Theater on March 23. I believe tickets go on sale this coming Monday. Now if she would only do that great version of A Case of You... I'll be getting my ticket, for sure. I hope to see other JMDLers there! Jack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:48:40 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Angry men...(njc) (Hi, all, This is a couple of days late because I was tired and screwed up the address. - -- w) Jim Wrote: <> As a fellow APOM (actually not true; I'm only angry some of the time, less than half, probably, but anyway..), I can only say that if it is not progress, it's better than being an angry, poor, dead man. Old is progress over young, anyway. Don't you like yourself better now than, say, the way you were twenty years ago (I'm assuming you're over twenty years old)? laughing, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:52:15 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Come in from the cold (NJC) that's my girl, pitassi! but you're being unfair to madrid. it can be bitterly bitterly cold there too. snow is not so common, though. kakki, put on your bikini and make believe you're in buenos aires in early spring. if we run out into the parks and start sunbathing as soon as the temperature hits the 40's, you can do it too, child! wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Mary E. Pitassi Enviado el: Viernes, 14 de Diciembre de 2001 11:02 a.m. Para: joni@smoe.org CC: KakkiB@worldnet.att.net Asunto: Come in from the cold (NJC) - --And I walked TWENTY-SIX MILES TO SCHOOL IN A BLIZZARD, too!! ;-) P.S. This reminds me a little of my year in Madrid, Spain in the early 80's. It was 55 degrees F in January, and I was delighted!!! On the other hand, my very good friend from La Jolla barely came out of her room. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:03:00 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: contemplating Two Grey Rooms >is it time to relive the discussion on what is behind >the song? Id love to hear what people think...lots of >newbies of late...so I invite you to spill . Two Grey rooms is indeed a very heart-wrenching song. As I am listening tonight, I am also trying to watch Harold and Maude on AMC. So the stereo is playing and I'm watching closed caption.4AM.....and feeling NO PAIN. I used to think this song was pure fantasy...... that she was playing this out in her head. But, if you listen at the very end of the song between the line...Below my window, she SAYS:HEY,HEY!! Like when someone is trying to get a persons attention on the street.. when they are calling from indoors behind a window. Also, at the beginning during her lovely piano intro BEFORE she breaks into verse it sounds like she says:There you again or dare you go with me? or there you go with me.... which doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I listened to this, trying to decipher exactly what she is saying.. if anything before the verses start......a good twenty times. Kneeling, with my ear pressed against the stereo speaker.......then I would back away from the stereo about ten feet and the more I listened the more I read into it. It was becoming gluck or whatever.....She says:No one Knows I'm here........(a real locale or at this station in her life?) this could mean several or have several different connotations..... that after all these years she's still smitten ... and pining for him.......surely people in her circle would think she was well past with such intense longing still. TO BED/MAT.......will finish this later today....... Eight hours later...... OK, feeling revived it now sounds like she is saying:Bear you go with me? ( Bear is the name of my cat?) I think I'm trying to make mystery where there isn't any really. It's an incredibly beautiful song that she sings from her very core. And I empathize with her.......if you let the song invade it can bring tears. Joni! Joni! JONI! GAWD IN HEAvEN........her phrasing, the emotion she invokes when she says:The weekends drive me mad,holidays are all too sad...... The word......MAD how does she do that with that one syllable word??.....she twists and turns it.....AMAZING! ........& SAD.... she takes you down to the depths where sadness...... IS! And I could envision this on the BIG SREEN, cinematic greatness......I'd take it a step further and want to think HE has been eyeing her secretly as well. They finally get the nerve to confront one another........and all that, that would entail........ I would want a happing ending though. :-) ALL subjective, BTW......nothing is fixed. Bree >And this loving is a drawing close, >a tuning in, an opening. >Until one perfect moment; >but how can it be expressed? >A receiving, an enfolding >as I cradle you in my arms. >Within my heart, within my soul, >You are my true love. > > --Lui Collins > >--- > > _~O > / /\_, > ___/\ > /_ _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:15:18 EST From: Reuben3rd@aol.com Subject: Re: Later, Joni (or "Shoot me now, I'm middle aged") Murphycopy@aol.com writes: > Who has more to offer humanity, Joni or Britney? Put them both on TV tonight > and which one gets clobbered in the ratings? No kidding! I don't think that Britney can even compare to other successful teeny bopper icons...while waiting to get my haircut this morning, I read a recent "Spin" magazine. (Which reminded me why I canceled my subscription years ago...) They were doing a "best singles" of 2001 piece, and listed Britney's "Slave 4 U" as one of them. The article stated (I'm badly quoting from memory here:) "Not since Madonna crooned 'Only when I'm dancing can I feel this free' has a pop song sounded so sultry and refreshing..." blah blah blah. I was offended that they even dared compare a Britney Spears nugget to a Madonna song, particularly one that has stuck around for so long. "Into the Groove" (while a trite pop song) has become an anthem, and I'd be very surprised if anything Miss Spears does will be hummed much 10 years from now. Lots of style, very little substance. Don't get me wrong: I love pop music: This week I'm going back and forth between Cyndi Lauper's (fabulous) Christmas album, the new Pink CD, Cou rt and Spark, and a new Harry Connick Jr...but even I can separate the wheat from the chaff. It also disturbs something deep in my soul when my friend's 6 year old daughter grinds her hips and licks her lips in imitation. Something bad wrong is going on right now. Britney Spears = BS. 'Nuff said. Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:14:48 -0600 From: "Rob Ettridge" Subject: River on UK TV Arghh! I just typed a decent sized post and the damn thing disappeared before I sent it. At least I think it didn't send. Sorry if this is a resend. It'll probably be a bit shorter than the original thing, as I'm running out of time now (going out to posh restaurant tonight with my partner, for our five year anniversary meal!!!) Anyway... There I was sitting in the lounge, muddling through my semi-unemployment by marking maths homeworks (very tedious) and watching daytime TV. Then the usual even calm of the Richard and Judy Show was interrupted by the ever annoying Marti Pellow. And what's worse they announced he'd be singing at the end of the show. I made a mental note to switch channels over to the Weakest Link before he launched into one of those dreadful ballads that he does. Then I remembered that he once covered Joni's River, and considering that it is coming on Christmas and all, I thought I should at least check, and eerily enough, that's what he chose to perform. Judy, gawd bless her, introduced it as 'a lovely Christmas song' - kinda missing the point of the song. They also had some conversation about great songwriters, but I missed most of that fumbling for a video. Yes Bob, that does mean I have it on tape. And as I'm going to see my parents next week for the holidays, and they have the ability to do such things, I'll transfer it to CD. So if you're interested in adding it to your covers collection, just give me a shout. I know you have another version by him, but I don't know how they compare, as I'm not that far through the collection yet. Rob _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:18:13 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: Did Dolby Eat Dog Eat Dog? > From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:38:24 EST > Subject: Did Dolby Eat Dog Eat Dog? > To: joni@smoe.org > Reply-to: BigWaltinSF@aol.com > I *loved* Dolby's albums of the early and mid '80's particularly The Flat > Earth, which came out in '84, a year before DED came out: So my question: > why did his treatment of her stuff come out so badly (a matter of opinion, of I did too. I have much of his stuff. I even regard him as verging on genius for those two '80's albums he put out. He's not afraid to go out on a limb with his music. I like that in any artist. mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:22:06 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: 2 grey rooms I forgot to ask if others hear her saying something during the piano intro? Or is it just scat? Curious???? Please tell me I'm not the only one in Joniland to hear words!! Bree _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:36:07 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: Re: Later, Joni (or "Shoot me now, I'm middle aged") (NJC) Reuben wrote: > They were doing a "best singles" of 2001 > piece, and listed Britney's "Slave 4 U" as one of > them. The article stated (I'm badly quoting from > memory here:) "Not since Madonna crooned 'Only when > I'm dancing can I feel this free' has a pop song > sounded so sultry and refreshing..." Well, I *looooooooove* "I'm a Slave 4 U." Those gaping rests in the chorus, that metallic bongo beat. Yum. 95% the credit for its greatness goes to the Neptunes production, and it's really Vanity 6 pt. 2, but I don't give a damn. I'mago dance to it on the headphones at Virgin right now. Get it, get it, uh. - --Michael NP: Devo, "Peek-a-Boo" NP: ===== ____________________________________________________ "She thinks she's Sophia Loren's mini-Me." - --salon.com on Penelope Cruz / Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:36:16 -0600 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Re: contemplating Two Grey Rooms- Harold and Maude "As I am listening tonight, I am also trying to watch Harold and Maude on AMC. So the stereo is playing and I'm watching closed caption. 4AM.....and feeling NO PAIN." You watched "Harold and Maude" WITHOUT THE SOUND ???? Yikes, the soundtrack is the best part of that film. IMHO, of course. Sybil _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:43:32 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Sounds as colors, etc. (njc) Sherelle wrote: I don't know if what sense this makes, but when I was little, I used to relate key signatures to colors. Purple was what I know now as E or E flat major. Blue was A or A flat major, and green was the key of G or C major. I still see key signatures that way and I don't know why. Oh well! - -- This is a very common phenomenon, and since I'm days behind on the digests, I'm sure you've already gotten responses, Sherelle. They even have a name for it -- for the experience of perceiving or associating one kind of perception, say a color, with a musical note, or warmth/coldness, or even a taste. But i can't for the life of me remember the technical term. I'm sure someone else on the list will remember. warmly (greenly, in the key of C), Walt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:59:05 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: God's Phone Number (njc) Colin wrote: I always knew the song, Quantemera, as One Ton Of Melons. - --Mike Nesmith, formerly of the Monkees, did a parody of the song on American TV back in the '70's or '80's called "One Ton Tomato", along the same lines. As a child, I guess like most children, I used to do that with lyrics or prayers in foreign languages that I didn't understand. In the old Catholic Mass, there was an oft repeated phrase: "Et cum spiritu tuo" ("And with your spirit") I heard it as "Eight Gum Spearmint Two Two Oh", and assumed it was God's phone number. hugs, walt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:03:28 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: 30-something -- River, I think...(sjc) SC Bob wrote: I don't think they ever featured her music on the show "thirtysomething", which is a surprise as there would have been many good fits I'm sure. Bob, I was addicted to the show, and I'm *almost* positive they played Joni's own "River" on one episode. But just almost positive -- anyone else remember? - --Walt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:21:17 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Sounds as colors, etc. (njc) In a message dated 12/14/01 2:44:58 PM, BigWaltinSF@aol.com writes: << But i can't for the life of me remember the technical term. I'm sure someone else on the list will remember. >> If anyone does remember the technical term for this condition, Sherelle, you may want to got to the Boston Globe's Web site and check out their archives. Thay did a story on this -- or a similar condition which involves perceptions of colors in letters of the alphabet -- within the last month or so. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:23:02 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: God's Phone Number (njc) In a message dated 12/14/01 3:04:17 PM, BigWaltinSF@aol.com writes: << In the old Catholic Mass, there was an oft repeated phrase: "Et cum spiritu tuo" ("And with your spirit") I heard it as "Eight Gum Spearmint Two Two Oh", and assumed it was God's phone number. >> There was another Latin Catholic mass phrase which I heard as "Dominic, go frisk 'em." --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:29:56 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Sounds as colors, etc. (njc) Walt wrote about Sherelle: > This is a very common phenomenon, and since I'm days behind on the > digests, I'm sure you've already gotten responses, Sherelle. They even > have > a name for it -- for the experience of perceiving or associating one kind > of > perception, say a color, with a musical note, or warmth/coldness, or even a > taste. Actually, I had never heard of this, and I think it is fascinating!! I'd love to hear more if anyone knows anything more about this. Hugs, Ashara {caught up with e-mail for the moment} ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:59:37 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Sounds as colors, etc. (njc) When i think of days of the week or months of the year, they always have colours. Even years do, like 71 etc. Don't know why but I have always been like this. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:05:43 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Sounds as colors/ rimbaud. (njc) but don't you all remember that famous poem by arthur rimbaud? wally ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:14:52 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: contemplating Two Grey Rooms 3 points about this lovely song which are, i hope, worthy of note - 1. In the video of Two Grey Rooms (from the CIFTC videos) during the lyrics - "You look so youthful Time has been untruthful" - - Joni is in front of the mirror, face lifting her face with her hands and checking out the youthful result she sees. (Making it seem like these lyrics are about herself) 2. The "Room with a view" motif recurs in the song 'Face Lift' - "Oh, the cold winds blew at our room with a view". 3. Two Grey Rooms is the closing song in NRH and it begins with the line 'Tomrrow is Sunday'. The Following Joni album TI begins with the song "Sunny Sunday". Sometimes it's like Joni's closing songs in her albums are an invitation for us to find out what will happen in the next Joni chapter... Thanks you mags for the infliction.:) Nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:23:11 EST From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: Sounds as colors, etc. (njc) Dear Walt, I'm behind on my digests as well, but I am thrilled to know that I wasn't nuts! Thanks so much for easing my mind! Sherelle In a message dated 12/14/2001 11:43:32 AM Pacific Standard Time, BigWaltinSF writes: > Sherelle wrote: > > I don't know if what sense this makes, but when I was little, I used to > relate key signatures to colors. Purple was what I know now as E or E flat > major. Blue was A or A flat major, and green was the key of G or C major. I > > still see key signatures that way and I don't know why. Oh well! > > -- This is a very common phenomenon, and since I'm days behind on the > digests, I'm sure you've already gotten responses, Sherelle. They even > have a name for it -- for the experience of perceiving or associating one > kind of perception, say a color, with a musical note, or warmth/coldness, > or even a taste. But i can't for the life of me remember the technical > term. I'm sure someone else on the list will remember. > > warmly (greenly, in the key of C), > > Walt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:25:51 EST From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: Sounds as colors, etc. (njc) Dear Bob, I will most certainly check out the archives. I am very interested in knowing what this phenomenon is. My mother loved me, but I was her "strange child!" Sherelle In a message dated 12/14/2001 12:21:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, Murphycopy writes: > In a message dated 12/14/01 2:44:58 PM, BigWaltinSF@aol.com writes: > > << But i can't for the life of me remember the technical term. I'm sure > someone else on the list will remember. >> > > If anyone does remember the technical term for this condition, Sherelle, > you may want to got to the Boston Globe's Web site and check out their > archives. Thay did a story on this -- or a similar condition which involves > perceptions of colors in letters of the alphabet -- within the last month > or so. > > --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:28:07 EST From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: Sounds as colors/ rimbaud. (njc) Dear Wally, I'm not familiar with Arthur Rimbaud. Could you share his poem? Sherelle In a message dated 12/14/2001 1:07:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: > but don't you all remember that famous poem by arthur rimbaud? > wally ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:41:47 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: 30-something -- River, I think...(sjc) << Bob, I was addicted to the show, and I'm *almost* positive they played Joni's own "River" on one episode. But just almost positive -- anyone else remember? >> Yep, she sure did...your fellow thirtysomething addicts filled me in and I've eaten many plates of (Black) crow! ;~) Bob NP: John Mayer, "Why Georgia" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:42:40 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: contemplating Two Grey Rooms- Harold and Maude I tried to listen to both simultaneously, but that drove me nuts. I did hear some of Cat Stevens though. I'm sure it will be on again soon and I'll catch it in its entirety. >"As I am listening tonight, I am also trying to watch Harold and Maude on >AMC. So the stereo is playing and I'm watching closed caption. 4AM.....and >feeling NO PAIN." > >You watched "Harold and Maude" WITHOUT THE SOUND ???? Yikes, the >soundtrack >is the best part of that film. IMHO, of course. > >Sybil > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:51:02 EST From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: cat update, personal update, and an I miss y'all njc Dear Evian, What wonderful news! Indeed this was a Christmas miracle! Sorry that I didn't know very much about cats to help. I've befriended my neighbor's cat, Dexter, but I am allergic to cats and it makes playing with him difficult. I get very itchy after touching him, but I just wash my hands real good after petting him. At any rate, congratulations concerning your cat's speedy recovery from a near-death experience! Sherelle In a message dated 12/13/2001 9:50:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > She was so weak she didn't even acknowledge us, and after a week, > I thought "this is cruel to keep her like this". On Monday night, she > threw up again (and she ate nothing but the forcefed milk stuff for like > 11 days) and then was so weak, she couldn't stand. Then, at like 4 am, > she jumps on the bed.... and the next day she's cruising all over the > house, and purring, and eating, and (forgive the bluntness) pooping, and > grooming herself, and she's been like some miracle cat. So, it looks > like she is coming out of it rapidly.... so, I guess we got our > Christmas miracle thang! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:52:58 EST From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Re: Sounds as colors - synesthesia (njc) hello, sorry Sherelle, I meant to look this up on the Internet when you first mentioned it. It's been an awful week for me and I didn't get a "round tuit". I just now remembered the technical term: synesthesia. Here is a link: http://psyche.cs.monash.edu.au/v2/psyche-2-10-cytowic.html There is a book called "The Man who Tasted Shapes" that can be bought on Amazon. info on the book is available at the website. I apologize again for not getting on this sooner. You are obviously highly gifted! Mary People hurry by so quickly Don't they hear the melodies In the chiming and the clicking And the laughing harmonies - - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:53:13 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: River on UK TV << Judy, gawd bless her, introduced it as 'a lovely Christmas song' - kinda missing the point of the song. >> Great job, Rob...I think the copy we have of Marti's "River" will suffice. I do think it's lovely though. And you're right about it's connotation of being a Christmas song. It's a common happening, goes to show how carelessly most people listen to songs & lyrics in particular. There's been a 'flood' of new Rivers to come out this season! Speaking of River, I got a new one in the mail today by Enzo Pietropaoli, an Italian jazz bassist featuring Maria Pia De Vito on the vocal. The CD is called "Stolen Songs", and they also do covers of The Sex Pistols (!) Blind Faith, Prince, U2, Stevie Wonder, and many more. Oh, they do a version of JT's "Millworker", a song that pops up in conversation here from time to time. Also Rob, congrats on your 5-year! Hope you have many more years of joy together. Bob NP: John Mayer, "3 x 5" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:05:36 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: contemplating Two Grey Rooms << 3. Two Grey Rooms is the closing song in NRH and it begins with the line 'Tomrrow is Sunday'. The Following Joni album TI begins with the song "Sunny Sunday". Sometimes it's like Joni's closing songs in her albums are an invitation for us to find out what will happen in the next Joni chapter... >> Very cool observations, Nuri! You are a person of extraordinary insight. Further to the discussion, Lindsay Moon transcribed a TI interview that tals about the writing process and some of the story of the song. Here's the excerpt, thanks to Ms. Moon! Q. Does it take a long time? A. Sometimes it does. Sometimes the puzzles are stubborn. And sometimes too the melody will cough up really hard restrictions, and that's happened to me a couple of times. "Two Grey Rooms" on the last album, for instance, was a jam. It was one take with a live jam, and I threw on a sketch melody. I hadn't even thought of the melody. All I had was my chordal movement and instrumental piano piece and we jammed it up. So the melody that went onto tape was the birth of the melody. I very seldom capture that on tape. Usually by the time I come to tape, I've sung a wordless melody many, many times to the guitar part or the piano part. But in this case it was its birth and it came out like with vowels that were more common to French than English (sounds out) "long-dong," just the way -- well, I got attached to that and trying to find sonically the English that had those kind of vowels was difficult. And I thought at one point I'm going to have to write this in French, and my French isn't that good. That one took six or seven years. We recorded it for "Wild Things" and it came out on the last album. I finally found a story about a homosexual love story from a fellow from Fassbinder's crowd in Germany, a story of obsession, and when I read the story I think in Interview Magazine, I didn't think of it as making a song out of it, but it was a kind of a haunting story of obsession. And one day I was at the piano and singing this song again, and I suddenly realized that the modality, the romanticism of this melody and the romanticism, the overt romanticism of this unrequited love story were quite suitable to one another and I managed sonically to find -- to tell the story with the correct vowels and consonants. But I make the puzzles very hard for myself because I enjoy them that way, you know, harder than most people would care to do, that's true. " Bob NP: Clem Snide, "Joan Jett of Arc" ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #594 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?