From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #592 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, December 14 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 592 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- TTT ["owen.duff" ] Re: Later, Joni ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: joni on thirtysomething/John Mayer ["mack watson-bush" ] Did Dolby Eat Dog Eat Dog? [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] (njc)Red Red Neuron comes Bob, Bob, Bobbin... [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Extremely Late trivial trivia answer (sjc) [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Re: Did Dolby Eat Dog Eat Dog? [colin ] Re: Fwd: Nun Joke (nlc) [Gary Zack ] Re: Chattering /Covering NJC [colin ] Re: Joni and Nuns (sjc) [Gary Zack ] nun joke NJC [colin ] Re: Fwd: Nun Joke (nlc) [Gary Zack ] Re: Later, Joni (or "Shoot me now, I'm middle aged") [Murphycopy@aol.com] John Mayer njc ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Later, Joni (or "Shoot me now, I'm middle aged") ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Later, Joni (or "Shoot me now, I'm middle aged") njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: TTT (or: "after you shoot Bob, Shoot me too") [Nuriel Tobias ] Covers #24 [Wtking59@cs.com] Re: Arthur Lee (Love) freed? (njc) [Wtking59@cs.com] Re: Hejira lost [Wtking59@cs.com] Re: Later, Joni (or "Shoot me now, I'm middle aged") ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Later, Joni (or "Shoot me now, I'm middle aged") ["Johnson Victor" ] Re: Album coherence (was: That Ole Blue v. Hejira...)njc ["Mark or Travi] Shiny Toys and HDCD Hejira, njc really... (short) ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lam] extended shiny toys [very short but jc because it is about one of her songs] ["Wally Kairuz" Subject: TTT Nuriel wrote: "...TTT for Joni's worst album", "Where did that spirit go on TTT?" You're joking, right, Owen?" Im a frayed not - I really don't hear much going on on TTT. To me, Joni's best work is either inspirational or insightful, or both, at it's *very* best. TTT starts off well - Harlem in Havana is such an uplifting song, with a great hook to the melody and production that reminds me of Court and Spark. Then Man From Mars, which is a really beautiful tune (tho I *still* can't decide if I like "big boohoo"). After that introduction, I felt the rest was a real let down, I didn't feel it was musically adventurous, nor was it saying anything particularly arresting - you could argue No Apologies here but I find that the lyrics in the chorus have little to do with the verse - moral decay yes, but the "lawyers and loansharks" come out of nowhere! Turbulent Indigo was a different story altogether, it had atmosphere and a great, angry energy to it, and the lyrics rank up there with some of her best (the techniques she employs on a song like Borderline are brilliant). It's a very personal thing, but few of the things I love about Joni - melodies that are completely original yet totally uncontrived; concise, intelligent, incisive and balanced lyrics loaded with dazzling imagery; production that throws out the rule book (Burundi drummers looping away years before sampling appeared) - are evident to me when I listen to TTT. It was the first new Joni album (bar hits and misses) to come out after I found her, so I desperately wanted to love it! Maybe in years to come I'll listen to it with new ears and renegue on this, but I dont hold out a lot of hope :( Owen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:20:17 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Later, Joni I found NRH pretty good, not great, and at times long to hear it. The other night was one of those occasions and nothing else was inside my mind, as far as anticipation. I plugged it in and the tape player ate it. There was an empty hole inside of me that night that nothing else could feel. Guess that says something for that album. I feel the way Owen does, about NRH, about Turbulent Indigo. Have yet to enjoy it and pretty close to giving up trying. Hejira, I read frequently, is a masterpiece. I have yet to get that but still trying to find it. Of course, C and S and For the Roses cannot be beat as far as I am concerned and Blue is excellent. Read earlier today someone saying the new member had some good times coming with albums they had not heard before. Me too and looking so forward to it. As far as the worst Joni album, so far, for me. I would say Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm. I hate it and I think it is basically because I can hardly hear Joni, much less know what she is saying. Hate the music on it. Owen? Joni, embarrassing. Joni on a bad day is better than average and nothing I have heard her do would I deem embarrassing. A middle aged album? What does that mean? I like middle age. A nice place to be. Mannequin- a silly movie but I enjoyed it. Pure fluff. The Breakfast Club- I had a troubled friend who thought it was the greatest movie ever. Average but did have its high points. Mack > I agree that Dog Eat Dog is a class act - there are some great angry lyrics > in there, and the production works to unify the album as far as Im concerned > (maybe I like the 80s sound cos Im an 80s kid tho - it always reminds me of > films of my youth like 'Mannequin' and 'The Breakfast Club'!) The tunes are > also far more engaging than those on 'Night Ride Home', for example. In > fact, I'm gonna risk a lynching by suggesting that for me, there's a toss up > between NRH and TTT for Joni's worst album. NRH is pretty much (dare I say > this) a middle aged album - she sounds half asleep on most of it, the > rhythms are plodding, melodies unadventurous and the chord sequences > cliched. Don't get me wrong, I like Come in From the Cold, Slouching Towards > Bethlehem and I LOVE Two Grey Rooms, but the rest are either dull or > embarassing (stand up Ray's Dad's Cadillac). Similar situation with TTT, > although at least when I heard the first two tunes I thought it was gonna be > a really good album. Why did Joni just settle back into those boring VG-8 > guitar numbers when she had some great production going on on Harlem in > Havana and Man from Mars? And theyre all in the same key! I mean, compare > TTT with the musical energy and innovation of CAS - thats music that takes > your breath away (when the strings kick in on Same Situation - wowser!). > Same story with DJRD - exhilarating! Where did that spirit go on TTT? > Especially after the brooding, dark and intelligent works on Turbulent > Indigo showed that Joni was still a master (and a half). Now thankfully > she's pioneering again - Coyote by an orchestra - now who can say what > THAT's gonna sound like! Just my two cents worth. I'm off down the bunker in > anticipation of an angry NRH loving mob! > > Owen (who is doing a compilation of later Joni songs for his mum, who says > she "went weird" after Hejira-tsk!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:23:37 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: joni on thirtysomething/John Mayer Bob wrote: I just watched it because I lusted after all the female characters on the show! ;~) ha ha Bob. I watched it a few times because Michael was cute but his character wasn't and so gave up. I didn't dig the rest of it and can't abide yuppies so couldn't watch for long. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:31:31 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: tired 12 hours njc could fill, not feel. exhausted. Just worked 12. Sorry. Mack > empty hole inside of me that night that nothing else could feel. Guess that > says something for that album. I feel the way Owen does, about NRH, about > Turbulent Indigo. Have yet to enjoy it and pretty close to giving up > trying. Hejira, I read frequently, is a masterpiece. I have yet to get > that but still trying to find it. Of course, C and S and For the Roses > cannot be beat as far as I am concerned and Blue is excellent. Read earlier > today someone saying the new member had some good times coming with albums > they had not heard before. Me too and looking so forward to it. As far as > the worst Joni album, so far, for me. I would say Chalk Mark in a > Rainstorm. I hate it and I think it is basically because I can hardly hear > Joni, much less know what she is saying. Hate the music on it. > Owen? Joni, embarrassing. Joni on a bad day is better than average and > nothing I have heard her do would I deem embarrassing. > A middle aged album? What does that mean? I like middle age. A nice > place to be. > > Mannequin- a silly movie but I enjoyed it. Pure fluff. > > The Breakfast Club- I had a troubled friend who thought it was the greatest > movie ever. Average but did have its high points. > > Mack > > > > > > I agree that Dog Eat Dog is a class act - there are some great angry > lyrics > > in there, and the production works to unify the album as far as Im > concerned > > (maybe I like the 80s sound cos Im an 80s kid tho - it always reminds me > of > > films of my youth like 'Mannequin' and 'The Breakfast Club'!) The tunes > are > > also far more engaging than those on 'Night Ride Home', for example. In > > fact, I'm gonna risk a lynching by suggesting that for me, there's a toss > up > > between NRH and TTT for Joni's worst album. NRH is pretty much (dare I say > > this) a middle aged album - she sounds half asleep on most of it, the > > rhythms are plodding, melodies unadventurous and the chord sequences > > cliched. Don't get me wrong, I like Come in From the Cold, Slouching > Towards > > Bethlehem and I LOVE Two Grey Rooms, but the rest are either dull or > > embarassing (stand up Ray's Dad's Cadillac). Similar situation with TTT, > > although at least when I heard the first two tunes I thought it was gonna > be > > a really good album. Why did Joni just settle back into those boring VG-8 > > guitar numbers when she had some great production going on on Harlem in > > Havana and Man from Mars? And theyre all in the same key! I mean, compare > > TTT with the musical energy and innovation of CAS - thats music that takes > > your breath away (when the strings kick in on Same Situation - wowser!). > > Same story with DJRD - exhilarating! Where did that spirit go on TTT? > > Especially after the brooding, dark and intelligent works on Turbulent > > Indigo showed that Joni was still a master (and a half). Now thankfully > > she's pioneering again - Coyote by an orchestra - now who can say what > > THAT's gonna sound like! Just my two cents worth. I'm off down the bunker > in > > anticipation of an angry NRH loving mob! > > > > Owen (who is doing a compilation of later Joni songs for his mum, who says > > she "went weird" after Hejira-tsk!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:38:24 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Did Dolby Eat Dog Eat Dog? In the most recent discussions about the merits/lack thereof of Dog Eat Dog, Colin (I *think* it was you, love) said: <> I'm sure this is extremely old news, but here goes: I *loved* Dolby's albums of the early and mid '80's particularly The Flat Earth, which came out in '84, a year before DED came out: So my question: why did his treatment of her stuff come out so badly (a matter of opinion, of course)? Was her writing really kind of in a slump, or was his synth style just not the way to go for her, or is it just one of those "sum is not equal to smooshing together of parts" or some such? Is there some gossip that the often dissed (although the j-ster herself seemd to like --and still seems to like -- him well enough) Larry Klein talked her *into* collaborating with Dolby -- hard for me to believe -- I've always thought she made her own decisions (albeit conceivabley influenced by whomever she was seeing at the time), and cannot help but believe she liked what he was doing with his own stuff before and during that period of time. I also thought the collaboration *did* work well on some of the songs, e.g., Lucky Girl and maybe Ethiopia and Beautiful Dreamer -- although I've never heard any live or "acoustic" versions of any of these songs, so maybe it's hard for me to judge. Long enough. warmly, walt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:42:18 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: (njc)Red Red Neuron comes Bob, Bob, Bobbin... Hi gang, I was debating whether to try to dredge up what my first musical memories were. But then Billy said: <> Wooooo. That's the first song *I* remember. Might we be roughly the same age, Billy? warmly, walt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:52:23 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Extremely Late trivial trivia answer (sjc) Hi, Gang, I'm, as usual, several digests behind (problems with domestic partner's mom, who is undergoing meltdown; sigh) Pyramus wrote: Hey, Big Walt. Sorry if I missed your reply but what was the answer to the Bach/Costello album connection with Joni? Sorry for the extreme late answer -- I shouldn't have assumed everyone knew - -- Both Joni's "Man From Mars" and Costello/Bacharach's "God Give Me Strength" appeared on the soundtrack from the movie "Grace of My Heart". I understand from reading someone's posting here that there are some versions of this soundtrack that actually (accidentally released in small number before the mistake was discovered and "fixed") have an early version of Joni's version of the song -- rather than the version by the woman who sang all of the lead chareacter's songs in the movie (forget the singer's name -- someone help me here). warmly, walt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 23:59:07 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Did Dolby Eat Dog Eat Dog? BigWaltinSF@aol.com wrote: > In the most recent discussions about the merits/lack thereof of Dog Eat Dog, > Colin (I *think* it was you, love) said: > > < synth > music and 80's sound and Dolby's production.>> > yes it was me but i do not agree with those sentiments at all. I love the album. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:05:42 -0500 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Fwd: Nun Joke (nlc) > I've always liked nuns, even wrote and copyrighted a song I wrote back in > the 70s, called > >"Nun Like A Lover." :-) > Bree replied: > Thanks for all your info, Gary. I always liked nuns too........at least > most that I was taught by. (some could be real bears) (twelve years of > catholic schools and boy do I have some stories.....but you learned.....or > else!!!) You'll have to share your song sometime......IS NUN a play on > words as in NONE? > And Me: Thank YOU Bree, for your interest. It is a mid 70s song I co-wrote with a friend, and the actual title is never sung in the lyrics. I'll pull a couple verses from it and send them to you off-list, as soon as I refresh myself with that old tape :-). Yes, NONE is related to NUN in the song, because it's about an old lover calling, and how the writer feels like a nun, before her final vows. Is that too much info? (grin) Sorry, feels nice to share once in awhile. Best regards, Gary ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:08:46 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Chattering /Covering NJC > Imagine someone else singing 'I bore her, but I could not raise her' on Chinese Cafe. It's so personal it just doesn't work for anyone else. > although I understand what you mean, i don't agree. surely great singing is also about acting and a good actor, if they understand the lyric, can convey the meaning and the emotion. Like some famous driector told some 'method' actor who complained he/she hadn't experienced something he wanted them to act. the director said' you pretend-it's called acting'. so i think a good singer, or interpretor of song if you like, could very well sing Chinese Cafe, and that line and have it resonate. have you seen Ms M sing 'stay with me'? I am pretty certain she didn't write it, but i defy anyone to hear/watch her sing it and not be moved buy it. She lived it. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:16:19 -0500 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Joni and Nuns (sjc) Excellent Rose! Thank you so much for sharing that information. The first time I ever met Joni, (1969) a bunch of us were waiting outside the backstage door after the show. They weren't going to let us in to see her, and one girl in the crowd of 25 or so told the security gaurd, "I have a picture of this nun who's a friend of Joni's. She's really sick and I need to get this picture to her." I actually saw the photo and the nun belonged to the same order that taught me. Security guard took the pic, came back a few minutes later, gave it to her with Joni's autograph on the back. The girl wailed, "No, I have to GIVE it to her." He relented, opened the door and we filed in....and there was siquomb. So you see, a nun played a part in my meeting Joni for the first time! Best regards, Gary RoseMJoy@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 12/13/01 9:15:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, > bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com writes: > > > . I always liked nuns too........at least > > most that I was taught by > > Speaking of nuns: Today's articles Dec 13th > She conveyed this feeling through her manager, Elliott Roberts, as she left > her Los Angeles home for a month-long vacation in Canada. Roberts said his > client would spend most of that time with her family in Saskatchewan, > performing only once during the month, at what he called "a nunsb convention > near Toronto." > > Not counting the performance for the nuns - one of whom was reported to be a > close friend of hers - Miss Mitchell will appear in the U.S. only five more > times. > > and then there were those pink nuns in Philadelphia > Remember Kakki, I think it was you who posted a link to their web site? > http://www.fairmount1.com/pink.html > > A Melody In Your Name > by Joni Mitchell Can you still remember how it all began? > With clipper ships and pink electric trees, > Dawnlight on a skyline bridges' span, > Street light on a rooftop memory. > Then it was me and spring came, > Playing a song of spring rain, > A melody in your name. > Night now comes much bluer than it used to be. > The pink nun sings much sadder than before. > She sings that sometimes things aren't what they > Seem to be, like moons reflected on the sixteenth floor. > Love is no more, it's ended. > Paper and pins won't mend it; > Even the moon pretended. > There must be a reason, oh, there must be one. > Keep your answers, let me find my own. > Where do pretty stories get their endings from > If loving always leaves you all alone? > Kisses have shown me sorrow; > Love is a throne to borrow; > Pay for the loan tomorrow. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:12:42 +0000 From: colin Subject: nun joke NJC A man is walking a long a street and sees an unusual looking small man sitting on wall. He has his head in his hands whilst he moves it up and down, moaning. He walks up to him and says,' Excuse me, are you a Goblin?' 'No' says the elf, 'I have a headache'. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:20:34 -0500 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Fwd: Nun Joke (nlc) Or it could be about a nun addicted to bars :-) jan gyn wrote: > > > I've always liked nuns, even wrote and copyrighted a song I wrote back in > > the 70s, called > > >"Nun Like A Lover." :-) > > >Best regards, > > >Gary > > There should be a TV show about a Nun who's studying to be a lawyer called > 'Bar > Nun'. > Sorry, > -jan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:16:53 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Later, Joni (or "Shoot me now, I'm middle aged") In a message dated 12/13/01 8:19:30 AM, owen.duff@ntlworld.com writes: << NRH is pretty much (dare I say this) a middle aged album - she sounds half asleep on most of it, the rhythms are plodding, melodies unadventurous and the chord sequences cliched. >> When did it become a crime to be middle aged? What makes plodding rhythms, unadventurous melodies and cliched chord sequences symptomatic of a middle aged artist? (Funny, I hear it more often in younger performers who haven't yet hit their stride or found their voice.) Why were the recording artists of my parents' generation given carte blanche to live and even thrive after the age of 40? Who gave Satchmo or Sinatra or Ella or Judy Garland or Nat King Cole or any of the legends of that era the right to be great and to express themselves after the first gray hairs started sprouting? Next time you wonder why Joni is reluctant to write or record new music, think about this comment -- and about what our youth-obsessed culture and the music business are doing to so many people who are not at all ready to be put out to pasture. I'm sure beach tar hasn't touched her blessed feet in decades. Why should she be writing or singing about feelings or experiences that have nothing to do with her current situation which is, um, middle age? --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:17:22 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: John Mayer njc Just heard about this guy from some friends who were raving about his cd & a show he just did here last week... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:35:52 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Later, Joni (or "Shoot me now, I'm middle aged") bobo, how i love it when you slap us all about a bit! wally, a glutton for murpheene ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:38:37 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Later, Joni (or "Shoot me now, I'm middle aged") In a message dated 12/13/01 7:36:29 PM, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << how i love it when you slap us all about a bit! >> Any more impertinence from you and I'll tan your hide, mister! XO, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:39:57 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Later, Joni (or "Shoot me now, I'm middle aged") Oops! Now I've forgotten the NJC tag. My turn for a good slap! Sorry. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:45:13 -0500 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: Joni & Anjelica Surprised to see there weren't any comments about Anjelica Huston's tribute to Joni at the Toronto festival. I just think it is so cool that Joni and Angelica are buds. It fIgures, two hip chicks like that, about the same age. Headstrong, arty types; party gals. I love Anjelica Huston's work, check out her movies, Enemies a Love Story, Pritzi's Honour, The Grifters, The Dead, Agnes Browne, and now the Royal Tanenbaums, which by all acccounts is fantastic. All these movies make for great entertainment.This is very good news! You may also know that Angelica is married to the sculptor, Robert Graham, who does amazing work. Such an arty set! Michael O ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:42:03 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Later, Joni (or "Shoot me now, I'm middle aged") njc yes, yes, yes. you read my mind.... - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Murphycopy@aol.com Enviado el: Jueves, 13 de Diciembre de 2001 09:39 p.m. Para: wallykai@fibertel.com.ar; Murphycopy@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Later, Joni (or "Shoot me now, I'm middle aged") In a message dated 12/13/01 7:36:29 PM, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << how i love it when you slap us all about a bit! >> Any more impertinence from you and I'll tan your hide, mister! XO, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:52:03 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: TTT (or: "after you shoot Bob, Shoot me too") "owen.duff" wrote: Nuriel wrote: "...TTT for Joni's worst album", "Where did that spirit go on TTT?" You're joking, right, Owen?" - ----------------------------- I do hope everyone understands that i only wrote the "You're joking..." part! Owen my dear, all i can say is that if in my next life i am a tree in the park i hope that someone holding his Taming The Tiger CD will sit in my shade. Nuri You wrote: "Im a frayed not - I really don't hear much going on on TTT. To me, Joni's >best work is either inspirational or insightful, or both, at it's *very* >best. TTT starts off well - Harlem in Havana is such an uplifting song, with >a great hook to the melody and production that reminds me of Court and >Spark. Then Man From Mars, which is a really beautiful tune (tho I *still* >can't decide if I like "big boohoo"). After that introduction, I felt the >rest was a real let down, I didn't feel it was musically adventurous, nor >was it saying anything particularly arresting - you could argue No Apologies >here but I find that the lyrics in the chorus have little to do with the >verse - moral decay yes, but the "lawyers and loansharks" come out of >nowhere! Turbulent Indigo was a different story altogether, it had >atmosphere and a great, angry energy to it, and the lyrics rank up there >with some of her best (the techniques she employs on a song like Borderline >are brilliant). It's a very personal thing, but few of the things I love >about Joni - melodies that are completely original yet totally uncontrived; >concise, intelligent, incisive and balanced lyrics loaded with dazzling >imagery; production that throws out the rule book (Burundi drummers looping >away years before sampling appeared) - are evident to me when I listen to >TTT. It was the first new Joni album (bar hits and misses) to come out after >I found her, so I desperately wanted to love it! Maybe in years to come I'll >listen to it with new ears and renegue on this, but I dont hold out a lot of >hope :( >Owen" _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:06:38 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Fwd: Nun Joke (nlc) I thought it was about Roseanne sexlife. Nuri - --- Gary Zack wrote: >Or it could be about a nun addicted to bars :-) > >jan gyn wrote: >> >> > I've always liked nuns, even wrote and copyrighted a song I wrote back in >> > the 70s, called >> > >"Nun Like A Lover." :-) >> > >Best regards, >> > >Gary >> >> There should be a TV show about a Nun who's studying to be a lawyer called >> 'Bar >> Nun'. >> Sorry, >> -jan _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:41:50 EST From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: Covers #24 Covers #24 is great fun. Thanks again, Bob. It's so cool hearing somewhat obscure versions of Joni songs by other artists. This has been my lucky week for winning contests. :-) Yesterday morning I won 3 CD's with my submission for 'my trifecta'---a contest they do once a week on our local NPR (U of L) radio station in Louisville, WFPK-FM--adult alternative/jazz. It goes like this. Pick 3 songs that work together as a set of songs that have a similar sound and/or theme. And, God knows I hadn't won anything in years. This was my suggestion (see below) to the station, via e-mail: Here's 'my trifecta' suggestion... It's a set of oldies from 1967-1968 which showcase the absolute peak for female artists at that time. The three albums represented have a distinct similarity in production, and therefore make an excellent set of songs that work great together. 01. "Woman's Blues" by Laura Nyro (from "Eli And The Thirteenth Confession") 1968, Columbia 02. "Somebody To Love" by Jefferson Airplane's Grace Slick (from "Surrealistic Pillow") 1967, RCA 03. "I Need A Man To Love" by Big Brother & The Holding Company's Janis Joplin (from "Cheap Thrills") 1968, Columbia Both Janis Joplin and Laura Nyro were managed at the time by the ever resourceful David Geffen, and (coincidentally) all three women performed at the legendary Monterey Pop Festival in 1967. (end) The DJ read the entire note on the air. Needless to say, I was surprised and flattered (especially since it was the first time I'd ever entered the contest). XXXOOO, Billy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:42:12 EST From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: Re: Arthur Lee (Love) freed? (njc) Colin wrote: who is arthur lee? (end) Arthur Lee was the leader & founder of the classic band Love. Their 1967 album "Forever Changes" is a bonafide, psychedelic classic. Their "Da Capo" album is great too! XXXOOO, Billy np--"Apartment Life" by Ivy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:43:32 EST From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: Re: Hejira lost Phyliss wrote: Can someone clue this non-audio-techno-gal out on this? Is there a new improved version? Where can I find it online???? (end) Regarding your question... The cheapest place I've found the remastered "Hejira" is at alldirect.com. for only $7.99 (+p&h), brand new--in HDCD. They're a great, reliable source I've ordered from many times in the past. Enjoy, Billy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:42:54 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Later, Joni (or "Shoot me now, I'm middle aged") > I'm sure beach tar hasn't touched her blessed feet in decades. Why should she > be writing or singing about feelings or experiences that have nothing to do > with her current situation which is, um, middle age? > > --Bob > Thank you, Bob! Very nicely put. One of my contentions about TTT (which I happen to love) is that if you haven't lived it, you probably aren't gonna get it. You might, but probably not. Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:47:01 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Album coherence (was: That Ole Blue v. Hejira...)njc Huh. I never thought of "Court and Spark" as presenting a single theme, although some of the tracks bleed together beautifully. From my memory [and of course it seems like many dim years ago.... :) ] I recall that she had "Twisted" in a can for a long while before finding a home for it, sticking it on C&S, almost as a bonus track. After all of those songs about doubt, "Twisted" sometimes reads like a song about madness/humor rather than about humor/madness. Anyway, "Sgt. Pepper" is kinda (dare I say it?) not as "thematic" as people think. I mean, it has the sgt pepper theme on side one and a reprise on side two so everyone said, "Ooooh. Lookie here. It's a *message* album. See, it's a theme because of the bookend effect." I challenge anyone to uncover a similar theme between "A Day In The Life" and "Within You and Without You", for example. Not that I doubt for a moment, in my wildest dreams that "Sgt Pepper" is a desert island disc. Both feet firmly planted in classic rock, thank you very much, Lama ps, npimh: that amazingly perfect outro that goes, "Breakin' like the waves at Malibu..... " ppss, If you like the humorous lyric in "Twisted", check out Annie Ross'es other masterpieces like "Farmer's Market". When I think about my father playing those tracks, ingraining them into my head, way before I heard "Both Sides Now", well..... I feel like a chip off the old block, that's all. Golly, Beav, music can be swell. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:48:03 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni & Anjelica > Surprised to see there weren't any comments about Anjelica Huston's tribute to > Joni at the Toronto festival. I just think it is so cool that Joni and > Angelica are buds. It fIgures, two hip chicks like that, about the same age. > Headstrong, arty types; party gals. I love Anjelica Huston's work, check out > her movies, Enemies a Love Story, Pritzi's Honour, The Grifters, The Dead, > Agnes Browne, and now the Royal Tanenbaums, which by all acccounts is > fantastic. All these movies make for great entertainment.This is very good > news! You may also know that Angelica is married to the sculptor, Robert > Graham, who does amazing work. Such an arty set! > > Michael O I wonder if Jack Nicholson had anything to do with introducing these two? I agree, they are both extraordinary, talented women. One of my guilty pleasures is the first Addams Family movie. Casting Angelica as Morticia was a stroke of genius. 'Don't torture yourself, Darling! That's my job.' Or was that Smurphy talking to Wallushka? Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:57:2 -0800 From: "Johnson Victor" Subject: Re: Later, Joni (or "Shoot me now, I'm middle aged") > When did it become a crime to be middle aged? > > What makes plodding rhythms, unadventurous melodies and cliched chord > sequences symptomatic of a middle aged artist? (Funny, I hear it more often > in younger performers who haven't yet hit their stride or found their voice.) Speaking of middle age, Neil Young "Silver and Gold" I thought was a brilliant album. He just seems to get better as he ages. Artists just have to go where they are led by their muse. I think "Night Ride Home" is a wonderful album and I think "Taming the Tiger" has a lot of merit as well. I don't listen to it as much as some of her other albums but I'd rather see Joni or anyone else for that matter, be true to themselves in their art and if they believe enough in something to release it to the world then I'll always be willing to listen because Joni's albums will always have that essence that is Joni. I wouldn't expect her or want her to put out ten more "Hejiras" or "Court and Sparks". The fact that she chooses to continue to write and release material I think is a blessing. Don't get me wrong...I think any work can and should be critiqued with an objective ear, by somebody anyway...But remember, "Everything comes and goes..." Victor Victor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:02:00 -0500 From: Mags Subject: contemplating Two Grey Rooms My suth'rn bro Bobs wrote: <> A gorgeous song...everyone who was at the Hommage this past October will remember the soulful rendition that Rebecca Jenkins did and how thrilled Joni was to watch and absorb this performance. Two Grey Rooms is a most beautiful, heart wrenching song..oh I love this rendition...no words yet...Joni talks about how it needs those loooong vowels or something... oh it is so special.....if you havent heard it yet, Bob will accomodate you np. Right bro? Just let him know and he will set you up with the goods. is it time to relive the discussion on what is behind the song? Id love to hear what people think...lots of newbies of late...so I invite you to spill . Mags, contemplating the collection Brei and I are building ...said in catgirl fashion woooohoooo!!! <> Trouble Child is so special to me, it was the second Joni song I heard way back when..and remains special. It was dedicated to me by the local DJ on our funkay fm radio stn. - -- And this loving is a drawing close, a tuning in, an opening. Until one perfect moment; but how can it be expressed? A receiving, an enfolding as I cradle you in my arms. Within my heart, within my soul, You are my true love. --Lui Collins - --- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:00:16 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Album coherence (was: That Ole Blue v. Hejira...)njc > Huh. I never thought of "Court and Spark" as presenting a single theme, > although some of the tracks bleed together beautifully. From my memory [and > of course it seems like many dim years ago.... :) ] I recall that she > had "Twisted" in a can for a long while before finding a home for it, > sticking it on C&S, almost as a bonus track. After all of those songs about > doubt, "Twisted" sometimes reads like a song about madness/humor rather than > about humor/madness. Well I don't know how kosher it is to re-post something you've posted before but that's never stopped me before. Bob Muller had an idea about a thematic thread in Court & Spark & I kinda ran with it: To me Joni's much more like the person in > Twisted.>> > > Which is why she covers the song and places it right after TC...to give > her story a happy ending. I think she threw 'Twisted' in to provide as a contrast to 'Trouble Child' and also to lighten things up. She takes the subject she has tackled so seriously in 'Trouble Child' and covers a song that treats it in a comic manner. Joni is also a fan of Lambert Hendricks & Ross and this was a good chance for her to cover one of their songs (as she does on HOSL with 'Centerpiece'.) as the flip side of one of her own. > > Look at the references: > > 1. In "Help Me", she 'gets that CRAZY feeling again'... > 2. In "People's Parties", she says (as a throwaway) "I told you when I > met you I was CRAZY". > 3. In "Just Like This Train", she realizes that 'jealous lovin' will > make you CRAZY, if you can't find your goodness 'cause you lost your > heart'. > > IMO, when she sees the unattached barfly broad in "Raised on Robbery", > it pushes her over the edge to where she feels she has to DO something - > she knows simple advice and religion aren't going to resolve it, so she > turns to Professional advice in "Trouble Child", probably a combination > of her own experiences with therapy as well as those of others close to > her. It IS tough to think of Joni in this situation as we care for her > SO deeply... > > But (like we've mentioned in the Therapy thread) ultimately she > realizes: > 1. she has to solve her own problems, and > 2. there's really nothing wrong with her at all, and "Twisted" is the > resolution to the whole mini-opera... > > Of course, I could be all wet!! No I think you might be on to something here! Madness or craziness does seem to be a theme that runs through this record. The madman in C&S tempting her to 'lay down the heavy burden of sanity' as Don Quixote would say, the feeling of giving in and losing control in 'Help Me', the craziness of the starmaker machinery in 'Free Man' and the need to escape from it and all those crazy people at those 'People's Parties'. 'The Same Situation' and 'Car on a Hill' are about how you can drive yourself crazy when you're in love and 'Down to You' & 'Just Like This Train' are about how you can drive yourself crazy when you're falling out of love. 'Raised on Robbery' is just a portrait of crazy woman who makes her living off of 'love' and the last two songs are about being perceived as insane, one from a serious perspective and one from a comic perspective. Could the title 'Court and Spark' be translated to 'Love and Madness'? Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:43:51 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Shiny Toys and HDCD Hejira, njc really... (short) Warren said, >>( i especially liked " shiny toys .") Have you heard the original, unreleased, extended version? It has some fun sound effects that (I think) really work. Shouldn't a song called "Shiny Toys" be fun? Phyliss Ward asked: I loaned my copy of Hejira.... 'cuz I thought there was a new improved HDCD version or something out. I've checked a few places and don't see it though. Can someone clue this non-audio-techno-gal out on this? Is there a new improved version? Where can I find it online???? Phyliss, if you're in the US, most everything sold new is hdcd by now. I don't think they'll proclaim it on websites but if you're in a real store, you can look for the small HDCD logo on the back cover. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:52:20 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: extended shiny toys [very short but jc because it is about one of her songs] i don't remember having heard an extended version of shiny toys. do we have that? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:23:56 -0600 From: evian Subject: cat update, personal update, and an I miss y'all njc Dear Sweet Listas, Hey there y'all (or as Liz Taylor would say after a good night of cough syrup shots, "y'all, y'all, y'all")! First, I want to thank all of you who sent much needed sick cat advice to me -- I mean to reply to you all, but give me the weekend, ok? LOL, one of those months, let me tell ya.... Anyway, for the quick update for those who care, the cat was in the hospital for 3 days and they almost put her down because she was doing so bad, and her blood was like water, and blah blah blah, and she was Calista Flockheart skinny to begin with.... so, we mourned, and I bawled... and bawled... and bawled like some out of control lunatic... and then I'd weep some more. However, they decided to give her one more day and wait to see what the blood tests revealed. It turns out she has this blood parasite called hemobartinella or something, and they said it is very rare here, and it is found in like 70% of cats who have leukemia or the feline AIDS thing. The weird thing is that the tests for both keep coming up negative, so they think she got it from her mother. Anyway, she was sent home a week ago on Tuesday, and we had to force-feed her this milky stuff and give her pills, which made her sick. She was so weak she didn't even acknowledge us, and after a week, I thought "this is cruel to keep her like this". On Monday night, she threw up again (and she ate nothing but the forcefed milk stuff for like 11 days) and then was so weak, she couldn't stand. Then, at like 4 am, she jumps on the bed.... and the next day she's cruising all over the house, and purring, and eating, and (forgive the bluntness) pooping, and grooming herself, and she's been like some miracle cat. So, it looks like she is coming out of it rapidly.... so, I guess we got our Christmas miracle thang! As for myself, I am still extremely busy, and I miss y'all so much! I rarely get a chance to catch up on the list, but I am hoping to this weekend, and now with the holidays coming up, I plan on keeping up! Work has been hectic, and I am trying to get my thesis done before I totally forget what the hell it is that I am trying to write about (I had a meeting with my committee yesterday, and I was saying things to them like "I dunno, what exactly DID I say I was doing in Chapter 3?" So, that's on my plate as well. Baby Kelly is totally wonderful, although really cranky today, so I think she is either getting sick or having a reaction to her needle. She is so much fun -- I really don't remember what it was like without her. She has great musical tastes as well. From birth, she has loved BLUE, and I mean LOVED it. She is big on Hejira, especially "Amelia", but I am afraid of making her some melancholy child by playing it for her ;) She also has a thing for "Willie" and "Conversation" and "Ladies of the Canyon", but sadly, FTR doesn't do anything for her. Her favorite song, by a longshot, is "Only One" by JT, as it immediately calms her down. Actually, she loves the "That's Why I'm Here" cd, as well as "JT". She also likes Elton's "Your Song" and "Levon". You might think I'm crazy, but she loves this music, and hates her lullaby cds. Oh, but she's really into Amy Grant's Christmas cd.... Anyway, she's great, and I look forward to her first Xmas with us. The lack of sleep is so well worth it! Anyway, I am going to try to keep up with the list from now on -- I miss ALL of you, and I mean all of you.... you are a great bunch of people! I was hoping to buy a new computer for Christmas since this piece of shit is dying, and nothing works, and it literally took me FOUR FRIGGING MINUTES to open my browser tonight (and I have DSL!), and the cd rom is busted, and it always crashes, and I still am stuck with windows 95, and I am scared to turn it off because I don't think it will start again, and it makes funny noises, but alas, the vet bill will be my present, thus stopping Santa from shopping at Future Shop for a big honkin' computer, but no regrets, I've got my babe, and my cat, and all is well with the world. So, as long as ole Betty (the computer) here doesn't croak in the next few weeks, I'll be keeping up with the list again. Hope to post again soon, and happy holidays to all of you, my friends, Evian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 23:50:25 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Later, Joni (or "Shoot me now, I'm middle aged") My problem is I am just obesessed with it all. I love the new as well as the old. I even like the old giving at whack at the new and verse vica. Here in the cradle of jazz AND blues I am sometimes oveerwhelmed by the past history and my attempts to keep up with MTV and VH1, well I probably shouldn't go there. Anyways I was just interrupted by Freda hollering that Stink was on Leno and THANK GAWD I caught THAT. Geez is Russell Crowe *INTENSE* or WHAT??? (I DO need a shirt like the one Stink had on though, but i digress, yet AGAIN. Anyways I really hope Joni is writing and that we will have the chance to hear more stuff that the masses can disect in one way or the other and try to classify into their own perception of whatever. As long as she plays some more, *I* will be grateful if I get it or not, cause I know that later I might and if I don't I always have something to look forward to. Blessings to all and to all a good... Paz NP-almost zzzzzzzzzzzzz on 12/13/01 4:16 PM, Murphycopy@aol.com at Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/13/01 8:19:30 AM, owen.duff@ntlworld.com writes: > > << NRH is pretty much (dare I say this) a middle aged album - she sounds half > asleep on most of it, the rhythms are plodding, melodies unadventurous and > the chord sequences > > cliched. >> > > When did it become a crime to be middle aged? > > What makes plodding rhythms, unadventurous melodies and cliched chord > sequences symptomatic of a middle aged artist? (Funny, I hear it more often > in younger performers who haven't yet hit their stride or found their voice.) > > Why were the recording artists of my parents' generation given carte blanche > to live and even thrive after the age of 40? Who gave Satchmo or Sinatra or > Ella or Judy Garland or Nat King Cole or any of the legends of that era the > right to be great and to express themselves after the first gray hairs > started sprouting? > > Next time you wonder why Joni is reluctant to write or record new music, > think about this comment -- and about what our youth-obsessed culture and the > music business are doing to so many people who are not at all ready to be put > out to pasture. > > I'm sure beach tar hasn't touched her blessed feet in decades. Why should she > be writing or singing about feelings or experiences that have nothing to do > with her current situation which is, um, middle age? > > --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 23:53:18 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Album coherence (was: That Ole Blue v. Hejira...)njc and I thought you were gonna save that last hit of Brown Acid for the next Northeast Fest. ya wanker! ;-) Paz on 12/13/01 6:47 PM, Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama) at jlamadoo@fuse.net wrote: > Huh. I never thought of "Court and Spark" as presenting a single theme, > although some of the tracks bleed together beautifully. From my memory [and > of course it seems like many dim years ago.... :) ] I recall that she > had "Twisted" in a can for a long while before finding a home for it, > sticking it on C&S, almost as a bonus track. After all of those songs about > doubt, "Twisted" sometimes reads like a song about madness/humor rather than > about humor/madness. > > Anyway, "Sgt. Pepper" is kinda (dare I say it?) not as "thematic" as people > think. I mean, it has the sgt pepper theme on side one and a reprise on > side two so everyone said, > > "Ooooh. Lookie here. It's a *message* album. See, it's a theme because of > the bookend effect." > > I challenge anyone to uncover a similar theme between "A Day In The Life" > and "Within You and Without You", for example. Not that I doubt for a > moment, in my wildest dreams that "Sgt Pepper" is a desert island disc. > > Both feet firmly planted in classic rock, thank you very much, > > Lama > > > ps, npimh: that amazingly perfect outro that goes, > > "Breakin' like the waves at Malibu..... > " > > > ppss, If you like the humorous lyric in "Twisted", check out Annie Ross'es > other masterpieces like "Farmer's Market". When I think about my father > playing those tracks, ingraining them into my head, way before I heard "Both > Sides Now", well..... I feel like a chip off the old block, that's all. > Golly, Beav, music can be swell. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #592 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?