From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #584 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, December 10 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 584 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: December 10 [les@jmdl.com] galeano NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] Re: no one is really sure njc [colin ] Re: no one is really sure njc [colin ] Re: bedrooms and politics NJC, short [colin ] no one else but you [shane ] RE: Covering NJC [M.Russell@iaea.org] reliving the Hommage to Joni Mitchell in Toronto tonnes of JC [Mags ] RE: Covers NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] cancer (njc) ["Suze Cameron" ] Re: Hidden tracks vljc ["Martin Giles" ] RE: Covering NJC [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: Hidden tracks njc [colin ] Re: no one else but you [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Erika Luckett (njc) [Steve Dulson ] no one is really sure njc ["Ron Greer" ] Joni Interview NJC [Steve Polifka ] Re: Finding light in the darkness (NJC) ["Timothy Spong" ] no one else but someone else [shane ] Re: no one else but someone else [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: no one else but someone else [shane ] Q mag ["Mike Hicks" ] That Ole Blue v. Hejira Chestnut ["William Waddell" ] Re: no one is really sure njc [cvickery@danielrealty.com] Re: That Ole Blue v. Hejira Chestnut [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: no one is really sure njc [colin ] To Dr. Countee with Love njc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: no one is really sure njc [colin ] Re: no one is really sure njc [Jerry Notaro ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 03:07:27 -0500 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: December 10 On December 10 in Joni Mitchell History: 1966: Contributed by Pat Henry: Joni performs tonight and last night at the Folk Cellar III in Port Huron, Michigan. This was one of her first appearances alone without Chuck Mitchell since she'd left Canada. Click the link for a copy of the ad that ran in the 'Port Huron Times-Herald' that week (Note that the price of admission was $1.25) More info: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1502641&a=11682876&p=41512516&Sequence=0&res=high 1990: Joni presents an award at the Billboard Awards. World Single to Sinead O'Connor for her smash hit version of Prince's "Nothing Compares 2 U." More info: http://www.jonimitchell.com/BillboardAwardSinead90.html - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:18:58 +0100 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: galeano NJC For Marian in Vienna 1533: Barcelona The Holy Wars From America come the heralds of good tidings. The emperor closes his eyes and sees sails approaching and savours the smell of tar and salt. The emperor breathes like the ocean, high tide, low tide; and he blows to speed the ships swollen with treasure. Fate has just rewarded him a new kingdom, where gold and silver abound like iron in Viscaya. The astounding booty is on its way. With it he will finally be able to calm down the bakers who are strangling him and pay his soldiers - Swiss pikemen, German mercenaries, Spanish infantry - who never see a coin even in dreams. The Atahualpa ransom will finance the holy wars against the Islamic half moon, which has reached the very gates of Vienna, and against the heretics who follow Luther in Germany. The emperor will fit out a great fleet to sweep Sultan Suliman and the old pirate Redbeard off the Mediterranean. The mirror reflects the image of the god of war: damascene armour with chiselled insertions at the edge of the gorget and breastplate, feathered helmet, face illuminated by the sun of glory - bristling eyebrows over melancholy eyes, bearded chin thrust out. The emperor dreams of Algiers and hears the call of Constantinople. Tunis, fallen into infidel hands, also awaits the general of Jesus Christ. Eduardo Galeano 'Genesis' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:36:28 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: no one is really sure njc it warms my heart to know there are such good parents around. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:40:37 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: no one is really sure njc this is just so sad and outrageous. I think your small place is just more upfront about it tho. The amount of email i have had about arabs and afghanis which is racist is appalling. many of them from friends(which was difficult). i deleted them with no comment. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:41:47 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: bedrooms and politics NJC, short > , here in this country when something so > ridiculous is going down, we just cannot be silent. > > evil flourishes when good people do nothing. (or something like that) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 02:19:03 -0700 From: shane Subject: no one else but you hear tom rush sing "no one else but you", a joni song that predates her first album, (if you have real media): http://www.tomrush.com/audio/noone.ram ho shane ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:24:41 +0100 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: Covering NJC On 09 December 2001 14:20, Mike Pritchard [SMTP:ink08@hotmail.com] wrote: > Marian said: > >>I have never heard Kenny G. play and I would probably agree with you that Wayne Shorter plays better than him and most other people for that matter, but I don't like going there. I feel there is something inherently bad/wrong in making these kinds of comparisons/judgments.<< Mike writes: >> But surely Marian you will not deny that records by these, and other, musicians CAN be compared. When we all sent our desert island disks to the list we had to make objective and/or subjective judgments on what to include on the list. Surely your criterion for inclusion was that you (and all of us too, of course) felt that these records were better than others. If not, how did you decide? << My choices were based on personal taste - they were totally subjective. Musical taste is so individual. I have a very dear sister and we agree about everything except music. Her list of favorite songs/albums would be totally different from mine. Who is to say which list is better? Can that even be said? The lists are simply different. There are people who think Rickie Lee Jones is far better/more creative than Joni. There are people who think Natalie Merchant is better than anyone else around. There are some people who love heavy metal. These are subjective judgements and who is to say that they are wrong? There is an infinity of stuff out there and enough for everyone to find something that they can relate to. I think Glenn Gould played Bach better than anyone else I have ever heard and most (not all) of his Bach recordings are quite good. If I were going to recommend Bach's music to someone, I would choose some selected songs from GG's recordings to get them started. But I know that there are people involved in classical music who totally hate GG! They would never recommend anything by him. I think there is a place for judgement in making decisions about what to buy and what to recommend to other people, but I have learned, after following glowing recommendations from various people here about certain artists, that the musical experience didn't always live up to my expectations. The only explanation for that is differing musical tastes. We don't all like the same things. I think Michael Y made a good point, when he talked about the discussions about music leading to more openness and expansion of musical taste. There is value in that expansion. Mike writes: >> We live in a very competitive world and I wish there were other ways to live our lives other than in competition with everyone else from a very early age although I have yet to find it. << One can only encourage cooperation and collaboration - emphasize their value - - within one's own sphere of influence. I think that's the most that anyone can do. Marian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 06:52:20 -0500 From: Mags Subject: reliving the Hommage to Joni Mitchell in Toronto tonnes of JC Jim had done an incredible job of presenting the heart and soul of the Hommage to Joni Mitchell which took place in Toronto in October. I could barely read it through the tears!!! We were all bursting with pride throughout...and for me, there were so many, many moments of *gasp* omg...and tears and holding onto Brei beside me, catching glimpses of Steve Polifka's reactions on the other side of me (yea lucky me!) and all the while, I am thinking I cannot believe I am really here. It must have been all of that a hundred fold for the jmdlers closer to the stage. Tonnes of tears of appreciation for our Joni. All of the performances were unique, special, wonderful. Rebecca Jenkins is the shining star for me...her rendition of Two Grey Rooms is magnificent and yes, Joni did stand and raise her hands above her head, clapping in appreciation. Joni obviously loves Rebecca's voice too! And speaking of Rebecca Jenkins, a colleague of mine at work gave me a CD of Bruce Cockburn covers and Rebecca does a superb job of All The Diamonds....if you are interested (Jimmy??Coyote Rick??) let me know. Please do yourself a favour and go and have a read of Jim's latest segment of the Hommage. It is brilliant and real and moving. Just like being there. And what an honour to be there. It was touching to see how much Joni is loved so deeply by everyone. Including us. Every single one of us. Thanks to Jim for all your hard work. You are so special. love, Mags. npimh: Joni singing Slouching Toward Bethlehem...just you wait...it is unbelievable!!!! She sings from her soul. - -- And this loving is a drawing close, a tuning in, an opening. Until one perfect moment; but how can it be expressed? A receiving, an enfolding as I cradle you in my arms. Within my heart, within my soul, You are my true love. --Lui Collins - --- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:03:28 +0000 From: colin Subject: amazing njc right now i am so amazed that perhaps i won't make sense. i had absolutley no idea that life could be so different, that i could be so different. as i said before, i finally agreed to go on to medication because i found the mood swings a pain to deal with. the drug i am on is a drug that is widely used for the treatment of epilepsy and neuraligia. it is also used to treat mood disorders. i have struggled for most of my life with mood swings and odd behaviour. i think were i a child now i might have been diagnosed with ADD or something. becase of the horrendous events of my childhood i have, for most of my adulthood believed that i was the way i was becasue of that. to a lrage extent that is true. but it was not the whole story, as i now know. I had an EEG which showed that my brain did not behave as it ought to. this was forgotten about and not followed up on, i guess in part because of my moving around a lot and because of Drs with not enough time or care. After years of therapy, which did wonders, and the move to more peaceful surroundings, i assumed i was as well as i would get and in fact thought i was well! the other things i did, or was not able to do, i accepted as just me, part of me. i was so used to these things, i thought they were normal. here i have the most wonderful doctor in Elizabeth.(she by the way is a Xtian and we talk about God and stuff quite a bit. i add this just to show i do not have a problem with xtians per se, as it suits some people think, but with bigotry and ignorance). Since i have been her patient, she has always treated me with the utmost regard. she also has done her job properly, made herself aware of the wonky EEG, and my past. she spent 2 1/2 years convincing me that my problems were beyond my control, that my brain did not function as it should. with great trepidation, i finally agreed to go onto the med she recommended. I am in shock still at the difference it has made. all the things I thought were normal for me, and nothing to do with being ill, have gone! I am not talking about my moods here. I am talking about not being able to concentrate for long, my mind going blank mid converstaion, my zoning out and losing periods of time as a result, my need to sleep 2 hrs in the afternoon, my short temperedness, my stuttering, my involuntary body movements, obsessional thinking and worrying, the confusion, the feeling like i am trapped, being 'fogged', the terror i would feel to a lesser or greater degree all the time, the forgetting how to do things i have done for years, the numbing of my emotions, the visual disturbances, the balance disturbances, the feeling of moving thru treacle, the hyperactivity when in an another frame of mind, behaving oddly in blackout. ALL of these things have gone. i have never felt like this. never. i am so amazed, truly astounded. i did not know how ill i still was. i did not know how ill i had always been! I have no doubt at all now that the abuse issues and the brain thing are SEPARATE things! In 12 step groups there is a widespread opinion that all things will be overcome by working the program and being honest with one's self. The use of drugs is frowned upon(and in some groups people will be barred or hounded for their use).(despite the fact that Bill W, the founder makes it clear he used nmeds and that it was between dr and patient and not the remit of the program). Vulnerable people are of course easy prey for such power freaks, as I was. So I not only believed it, i spouted the same crap. Now I know different. The good thing is, i am unaware physically that i am taking anything. the benefits are , i know i have said it already, astounding. I will have to stay on this for the rest of my life now. I have wondered about long term use effects but now feel that if it causes my life to be shorter, then so be it. i'd rather live a full life than the half life i have been living. It seems that for the first time in 43 years, i am living rather than surviving and i just didn't know that was possible. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:02:15 +0100 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: RE: Covers NJC Mike said >>Many people would name [Beethoven] as an important composer or as their favourite composer without knowing much more than the opening motif (is it sacrilegious to say 'riff' here?) of the 5th symphony, or 'Nessun Dorma'<< Fred replied >>Or even without knowing that "Nessun Dorma" was composed by Puccini! (insert your favorite emoticon here)<< Mike now says Yes, Puccini composed Nessun Dorma, not Beethoven. While writing the mail I couldn't recall the composer (Verdi? Puccini?) so I included the name of the singer of the most 'popular' version, i.e Pavarroti, not meaning to suggest that it was a Beethoven piece. Sorry if I gave this impression. Mike said >>Kenny G may 'technically' be a very good musician (damning with faint praise!) but lacks something; call it soul, call it feeling, call it what you want<< Fred said >>Here we differ: Kenny G is *not* a good musician, technically or otherwise (bad tone, out of tune, poor note choices, arrhythmic feel, bad taste).<< Mike now says Thanks Fred. I said 'may' technically be very good, and 'may' is the operative word here. As a non-musician I am in no position to judge musicians' ability, only how they appeal to me or not. I didn't realise he was so bad, though LOL. Fred said >>However, I think he does have soul, his own version of it at least (everyone does), and I think he's sincere. This goes a long way to explain his popularity.<< Mike now says Here we differ. If he has soul, it is different to what I understand it to mean. I do not doubt his sincerity. Mike said >>I love Miles Davis and happily accept that there are other, better players than Miles but he does it for me.<< Fred said >>There *aren't* better players than Miles ... there are those who may play faster or higher, but no one, on *any* instrument, plays *music* better than Miles. Of course, many musicians play music equally as well as Miles, but none better.<< Mike now says My remarks about being a non-musician apply here too. I have heard many people say that Miles is an all-time great as an innovator, bandleader, and trumpeter etcetera but did not possess the best technique (that word again). I am happy to accept this but for me Miles usually hits all the right notes. Whatever people say against him doesn't affect how I feel about Miles. Could you clarify one thing Fred, please? When you say "no one, on *any* instrument, plays *music* better than Miles" do you say this because Miles was the greatest musician or because comparisons are unhelpful, invalid, or just plain stupid? Mike said >>One of my all-time musical highlights was listening to Wayne Shorter and Herbie Hancock's quartet playing here in BCN in around 1994. They played a piece without bass or drums, just the two of them, a very slow, tender, beautiful piece of music which was as perfect as music can get. If I ever reach that state of bliss again I'll be very happy.<< Fred said >>Mike, if you want to achieve that blissful state again, get hold of their duo album, "1+1"<< Mike now says Thanks Fred for this information. I put on a T-shirt of the concert the other day and realised the concert took place in October 1991, not 1994! How time flies. Nice talking to you, Fred. There's so much to learn here. mike np swordfishtrombones Tom Waits ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:21:47 -0500 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: cancer (njc) Brothers and sisters in Joniland, I send this out to you in hopes of finding answers. A very dear friend has just been diagnosed with colin cancer. I am frightened and don't know how to help. If anyone can give me some insight as to survival rate, treatment options, etc. I would be grateful. Searched the internet and found very numbing facts and figures. I believe it helps to have actual insight from people who have experienced it. At least that is what I am telling myself. The online news was too sobering. I do recall that our dear Wally fought a hard battle against this very same illness. This is what scares me the most. Please, off list only unless you want to share with all. Thanks, Sue ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:49:50 -0000 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Re: Hidden tracks vljc Hi folks Martin from London delurking. Forgive me if I'm repeating what others have said, I've just skimmed though the latest digest (583). It was fun the first time I came across a hidden track on a CD, but it's a bit old-hat these days, I think. And you know when there is one coming, as the CD counter is still going. I'm a mastering engineer, and I worked out on my hard-disc editor a while back, how to write a CD-R so that there is a hidden track at the beginning of a CD. (i.e. If you scan BACKWARDS from the start of the first track, you find another track before it). However, this definitely does not conform to the official specification, so I can't get such a master through the manufacturing process. Pity. That would be really hidden, as you could only come across the track by complete accident, and there is nothing telling you something's up on the CD player display. Lama said - > One thing I like about vinyl is that > some bands let you take a breath between tracks, as if..... (dare I say it?) > as if there were human beings actually creating music in a room instead of > sounds being extruded from a machine as "tracks". Actually, there isn't any reason why you can't have any gap you like between tracks on a CD. On classical recordings they will very often leave very long gaps between movements or different pieces on the CD. When I'm mastering, I pay attention to the pauses, as it can make a great difference to the feel of an album. If two consecutive songs are very different in mood, say slow ballad going into up tempo workout, you can put in a long pause to allow time for the listener to relax a moment, or a very short pause can be a 'wake-up call' and kick-start the album again. My copy of 'Blue' (the Gold Disc CD), has a very long pause between the title track and California. If memory serves me right, this was where the side break was on the original vinyl album. I love this pause on the CD though, as Blue is such a sweet, sad tune, I need the 10 seconds or so to be able to be ready for California. Another similar example is on Yes' 'Close To The Edge' album. There is a long pause between 'To Be Over' and 'Siberian Khatru',which lets me sigh at the delicious delicacy of the end of the first track before the snap-to-attention of the guitar that starts the second. The recieved wisdom these days is that if your music is louder than everyone elses, then people will like yours more. Witness the blasting compression slapped onto every pop radio station. Apparently if you are channel hopping on your radio, you will stop on the station that is loudest, rather than on the one that is playing something you like. (Similarly, if an advertising voice-over is SHOUTING at you, you will be more likely to buy the product.) Not the way it works for me, nevertheless, that's how the stations see it. Another little gem from the same stable of thought is that if you put a long a pause between two tracks on a CD, the listener will take it out and put on another one. (As if the listener isn't capable of doing that during a song.) While I'm having a rant, how about this?.. My attention span on any one album is usually about 50 minutes or so. CDs can contain nearly 80 minutes of music. Most CD albums these days are at least 70 minutes, but quite often contain a good many 'filler' tracks. I'd prefer it (and I'm sure the artists would too), if they just included the good tracks, and if that meant you end up eith a 45 minute album, all well and good. So. What I want for Christmas is.... Shorter albums, longer pauses, and no more 'hidden' tracks please! Martin. > > Bob Muller asked, > >>What do y'all think: Hidden tracks, thumbs up or down? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:01:51 +0100 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: Covering NJC I said: > Mike writes: > > >> We live in a very competitive world and I wish there were other ways to live our lives other than in competition with everyone else from a very early age although I have yet to find it. << > ><< One can only encourage cooperation and collaboration - emphasize their value - within one's own sphere of influence. I think that's the most that anyone can do.>> I think one can also try to avoid being competitive oneself. Somebody wrote to me and asked something like "but don't you think it's important to make sure that the doctors you choose are the best ones?" I just want to make it clear that in my previous posts I was speaking about self-expression - about valuing the attempts of anyone trying to bring beautiy into the world. Valuing those attempts within the context of each individual in relation to her/himself and not in relation to anyone else. There are areas where determining and selecting excellence is very important, critical, and essential such as in choosing one's physicians. I would never recommend selecting a would-be surgeon so that he can learn his craft on you or your loved ones - that would be insanity and possibly fatal. Marian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:21:41 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Hidden tracks njc > (Similarly, if an advertising > voice-over is SHOUTING at you, you will be more likely to buy the product.) don't know how they figure that one out! i find it very very annoying and immediately turn the volume off till the ads are finished-or i record and whizz thru th ads! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:18:29 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: no one else but you >>hear tom rush sing "no one else but you", a joni song that predates her first album,<< Shane, what leads you to believe that this is a Joni song? It's not listed at JM.com, which has a pretty exhaustive list, but more importantly, Tom himself refers to the song as a work-in-progress... "This tape represents a kind of sketch book for an album I've been working on over the past couple of years ... six tunes in various stages of completion." Looks to me like this is a Rush composition. Bob NP: Cherry Poppin' Daddies, "Dr. Bones" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:50:12 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Erika Luckett (njc) Kate Bennett wrote: >Yes Walt, once again its a small world. Erika is another indiegrrl >colleague of mine. We shared a showcase (Taylor) last year at the >Vancouver Folk Alliance. Well, I was there and not terribly impressed with Erika. Of course, as she was on either just before or just after Kate, she probably suffered from the comparison. :) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:14:19 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: no one is really sure njc hi >>mack wrote >>This place is so backward, it is frightening. i absolutely love this song about east texas: Memories of East Texas And piney green rolling hills Covered in the springtime With golden daffodils Rowing on Sandy Lake come April Harvesting hay in June Sitting by the road watching well-fires burn By an old October moon Chorus: I learned to drive on those East Texas red clay backroads And I mean to tell you my friend They weren't no easy roads You had to watch out for all the curves Down by Kelsey Creek And detour through the Lindsay's pasture When the water ran too deep Memories of East Texas And Gilmer, county seat of Upshur Looking back and asking myself 'What the hell'd you let them break your spirit for?' You know, their lives ran in circles so small Ah, they thought they'd seen it all And they could not make a place for a girl who'd seen the ocean repeat chorus: Ah, but those memories of East Texas Those piney green rolling hills Covered in the springtime With those wild daffodils Sitting in those Piney Woods Playing my guitar Thinking back on the roads I'd come Thinking I had not come that far... repeat chorus again extract from "memories of east texas" by michelle shocked (off "short sharp shocked"), who also suffered from her texas background........ ron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:50:26 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Joni Interview NJC Hi all, Last night, a friend through a little memorial party for George Harrison. He was extremely influenced by the Beatles, and wanted to share that with his friends. While most of the get together was a party, I went to his basement workshop where he wanted to show me some of his new projects. He had left the radio on, and Coyote was playing and I started singin' with it. He commented on the verse where she complains "He's got a woman at home- he's got another woman down the hall but he seems to want me anyway, Why'd you have to get so drunk and lead me on that way..." LOL! He goes, "Joni Mitchell, huh..." with this odd expression on his face.Then I had to remind him that she knew John Lennon...lol Anyway, after the song was an interview, where she spoke of taling about Jaco, and chords with Wayne Shorter 'These aren't piano chords- nor are they guitar chords. What kind of chords are they?' Does anyone know of this interview? Songs they discussed were Ethiopia (Her vocal stacking),and Turbulent Indigo...there was more, but I returned to the party-(darn!) Bob? Anyone? Steve Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:24:59 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: Re: Finding light in the darkness (NJC) Mags N Brei wrote: >Subject: finding light in the darkness > >When the the glory of the setting sun is >laid to rest this evening, signifying the first night >of Hanukkah, I will place our menorah in the window >and listen as Brian sings the traditional blessings. > >The Jewish festival of Hanukkah begins at sundown with >the lighting of the first candle on the menorah, and it >continues until sunset December 17th. It is the beginning >of the eight day festival of lights. > >One additional candle is lit each evening, using a >candle called the shamash to light the candles. There are >nine candles in total, the shamash, (the helper) and eight other >candles,one for each night. The candles are lit from right to left just >as Hebrew is read from right to left. > >The holiday is celebrated beginning on the 25th day >of the month of Kislev on the Hebrew calendar, which >is currently in the year 5762. > >The Hebrew word Hanukkah means dedication. The >people rededicated their temple after many of the >beautiful furnishings had been destroyed. > >The Jewish soldiers and Judah Macabaeus, who led them >into the resistance after the death of his father Mattathias, >cleaned the temple. They wanted to prepare a big celebration >for the rededication. > >They searched everywhere for oil to light the menorah, which >by tradition was kept lighted at all times. But they could find >only enough oil to light the menorah for one day. > >According to the traditional story, a miracle happened and the oil >lasted for eight days - the time it took to produce more oil. > >This is one of the many ways that Brian and I >integrate our lives and our love for each another, >as we continue along our life long journey together. > >It is my honour and privilege to be included in this >beloved ritual that is an integral part of my Brian's life, >heart, soul, and spirit. > >thank you to Brian and to our beloved brother Wally's >touching post within which he shares >how he celebrates this special time of year. > >It is with love and respect that I honour this special tradition. > >always and always, >Mags >xoxox > and Wally Kairuz wrote: >Subject: RE: [Fwd: finding light in the darkness] > >today they lit the second candle on the giant menorah that the city >government has erected on the corner of the street where i live. >i thought of the hanukah miracle and i prayed for my country to survive the > >terrible days ahead. >wallyK, waiting for the third candle to be lit. And I write: Although not Jewish, I like the holiday of Hanukkah because it is about religious freedom and national self-determination. Happy Hanukkah to all! Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:52:59 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Interview NJC <> Why did you label this NJC? Anyway, it doesn't ring any bells with me...I may have it, but I don't recall hearing her say that about Ethiopia... If I should come across it, I'll let you know. Bob NP: The Chieftains (w/Joan Osborne), "Raglan Road" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:04:17 -0600 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Re: no one is really sure njc "Memories of East Texas And Gilmer, county seat of Upshur" Gilmer - also the birthplace of one Don Henley. Upshur County - birthplace of me. I was not familiar with that song - thanks for posting the lyrics. My parents moved to Dallas while I was still a toddler, but my childhood summers and holidays were spent in those piney woods and small towns. Most of my family still lives there, and are buried there as well. The connection to the red clay apparently runs deep. I have many idyllic memories of shimmering hot summer days running barefoot with my cousins, the heavenly cool of the small movie theater in Gladewater, pop. 4000, drinking bottled Cokes with a bag of peanuts poured in. East Texas is also the place I remember seeing the signs "White" and "Colored", and asking my grandmother what it meant - I thought it referred to the color of the walls inside the bathroom. I can remember being a teenager in the mid 1960s and still seeing the sign at the laundromat near my grandma's that said "No Colored Maids allowed" - even though I can intuitively understand racist logic, I never did get that one. I now live in a small town about 60 miles southeast of Dallas, and moving there from the big city was like moving back in time at least 3 decades. However, the thing that surprised me the most is that we have a gay bar, and apparently a sizable gay community. I never thought such a thing possible in this redneck town, but there you have it. People here can be openly racist and homophobic to a shocking degree, but there's a strange contradicting attitude. My grandmother was a racist, but she was also an unfailingly polite Southern lady - maybe it's about keeping the dirty laundry hidden, I don't know. Colin mentioned moving to a small town and experiencing less harrassment. That reminded me very much of the place I live now. Sorry to ramble. Mack, I know where you're coming from. Sybil _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:06:31 -0700 From: shane Subject: no one else but someone else hi bob, my apologies to all... lycos search engine fooled me - they listed the following: 18. Page Title: classic Joni Mitchell song from the album Tom Rush: New Year . ( Joni Mitchell , )Siquomb Publishing Corp.) - excerpt (1:35) & No One Else But You File Name: noone File Size: 35B Page URL: http://www.tomrush.com/audio.html >> Play Audio Track i'll contact lycos and set them straight on this listing... then, researching further, the song is described with the following authors: "No One Else But You" - from Tom's latest recording Work In Progress (Bill Miller/Doug Hoffner, )Windspirit Music/Hoffner Haus/BMI) - excerpt (1:09) back to barney google! shane ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:12:31 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: no one else but someone else No harm no foul, Shane...just wanted to correct it before folks started to grab it up! :~) Meanwhile, if you'll visit "Lipstick of the Stars": http://www.thelipstickpage.com/star.shtml You'll see that Joni's preferred brand is Estie Lauder "Silent Red". Bob NP: The Chieftains/Diana Krall, "Danny Boy" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:40:38 -0700 From: shane Subject: Re: no one else but someone else some lipstick! some lips! - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 11:12 AM Subject: Re: no one else but someone else No harm no foul, Shane...just wanted to correct it before folks started to grab it up! :~) Meanwhile, if you'll visit "Lipstick of the Stars": http://www.thelipstickpage.com/star.shtml You'll see that Joni's preferred brand is Estie Lauder "Silent Red". Bob NP: The Chieftains/Diana Krall, "Danny Boy" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:43:12 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Q mag I was reading on the Jefferson Airplane mail list that Q magazine rated Grace Slick as #69 on the top female vocal list of all time. Can you believe that? Does anyone know where Joni ranked on that list? IMO they are the top two. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:43:41 -0000 From: "William Waddell" Subject: That Ole Blue v. Hejira Chestnut According to the Album and Song Polls on the Jonimitchell.com website, Hejira is the best album whereas Blue appears to win hands down with the best songs; circa 215 to 353 votes respectively. With thumb and index stroking chin, Willy the Shake adopts a pose curiouser and curiouser. Alice in Dreamland ------------------------------ Date: 10 Dec 2001 11:00:43 -0800 From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: song publishing questions (njc) Well, it's occurred to me that no one is going to come knocking on my door, eager to publish (or perform) any of my songs. I'm going to have to go knock on their door. (And I'm panicking about having to go back to work in January, so maybe now is a good time to start looking at other possibilities...) Does anyone know who some reputable publishers are? And how do I go about submitting material? I know it's a real long shot. But, hey, I guess it's worth a try... lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:02:54 -0800 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: Q mag happy holidays guys and girls, hope everyone is in the christmas spirit. we're coming into the end of the year so we're going to be seeing the "the best whatever for whenever." there is no doubt in my mind and most jmdl'rs that joni belongs in the top 3-----easy! so whoever these people are who makes these lists, they are just badly informed media influenced clones. i suggest we make our own list out and send it out to the media. take care gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Hicks" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 10:43 AM Subject: Q mag > I was reading on the Jefferson Airplane mail list that Q magazine > rated Grace Slick as #69 on the top female vocal list of all time. > Can you believe that? Does anyone know where Joni ranked on that > list? IMO they are the top two. > > Mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:03:00 -0600 From: cvickery@danielrealty.com Subject: Re: no one is really sure njc Sybil said: <> As a fellow Suthener, I think you've hit the nail on the head. I also intuit, somehow, there's more forgiveness, among those same "polite" Southerners, for being queer than there is for being any of the *other* outsider groups, like "colored" or maybe even "Yankee" - perhaps because most of the "Old South" women of my mother's age group all knew of someone in their own family tree who was queer, so there's a sort of "forced" forgiveness. On the other (and scarier!) hand, that "politeness" that was very much a part of the Old South seems to be going the way of hoop skirts and cotillions. Just my 2 cents. Cindy ********* And Mack - My thoughts continue to be with you as you face this uncertainty. Let me know if I can do anything.... C ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:09:52 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: That Ole Blue v. Hejira Chestnut <> While this may sound like a contrast of terms, Willy, I don't see it as such. I think of Hejira as more of a complete work than Blue, even though on the whole the songs BY THEMSELVES may be stronger on Blue. Both are classics and brilliant of course...I've always thought Blue was more disjointed in terms of theme. I mean, you have some optimistic songs (All I Want, My Old Man, Carey), some songs of lost love (A Case of You, River, Blue), and some songs about travel (California, This Flight Tonight), and then she also throws in Little Green & The Last Time I Saw Richard which are very confessional/personal pieces. I don't think the record is overly depressing as do some, nor would I say that it's a happy record. I don't see an interconnecting theme as much as I do with HOSL, Hejira, C&S. That certainly doesn't detract from Blue one bit, and many would call Blue their favorite. But I think just as many (who are familiar with her complete body of work) see Hejira as a superior album as a whole, not because it's a collection of better songs, just because it's an unprecedented sonic landscape encompassing an emotional travelogue, and it deals with such philosophical & universal themes. Bob NP: The Chieftains, "Dublin In Vigo" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 19:22:12 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: no one is really sure njc > Colin mentioned moving to a small town and experiencing less harrassment. > That reminded me very much of the place I live now. even more remakable is this area is the 'bible belt' of Britain. I didn't know that before we moved! Hundreds of churches. it also is where the most inbred village is. lot of that round here too. but people here mind their own business. they are more friendly tho. like when iw alk the dogs people alwyas say good morning or good afternoon. > > > Sorry to ramble. > > Mack, I know where you're coming from. > > Sybil > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:20:46 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: To Dr. Countee with Love njc My brother Nick just called me to let me know my Neurosurgeon died Saturday after a brief illness. The man literally saved my life. Dedicated to Dr. Countee NP: Passion Play(When All The Slaves Are Free) Dr. Roger W. Countee, UMDNJ prof, Plainfield neurosurgeon, 59 12/10/01A Mass for Roger W. Countee, M.D., 59, of Watchung will be at 10 a.m. Wednesday in St. Bernardbs Church, Plainfield, after the funeral from the Higgins bHome for Funerals,b 752 Mountain Blvd., Watchung. Dr. Countee died Saturday in Muhlenberg Regional Medical Center, Plainfield, where he had been chief of neurosurgery since 1990. He maintained a private practice in Plainfield and was clinical professor of surgery at the University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey-Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, New Brunswick. He also held staff appointments at the Somerset Medical Center, Somerville, and JFK Medical Center, Edison, and had previously served at Trinitas Hospital, Elizabeth, the Lahey Clinic Medical Center, Burlington, Mass., and the New Jersey Medical School and College Hospital, Newark. Dr. Countee was a visiting professor at Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center, New York City, Howard University College of Medicine, Washington, D.C., Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, the University of Michigan, Tufts University, Medford, Mass., and the Universities of Florence and Rome in Italy. A well-known authority in his field, Dr. Countee served as president of the New Jersey Neurological Society from 1991 to 1993, gave more than 80 invited lectures and presentations in the U.S. and Canada, Italy and Puerto Rico and was the author of 40 publications in textbooks and peer-reviewed journals. A University of Oklahoma graduate, Dr. Countee received his medical degree with honors in 1968 from the Howard University College of Medicine, which later granted him a Distinguished Service Award as an outstanding alumnus. He did his neurosurgical residency at Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center and held fellowships in neurosurgery at the Montreal Neurological Institute, the Neurological Institute at Columbia University and Neurochirugische Universitatsklinik in Zurich, Switzerland. Dr. Countee was a lieutenant commander in the Naval Reserve. In 1983, Dr. Countee received the Golden Heritage Award from the N.A.A.C.P., Montclair Chapter, and the key to the city from Oklahoma City Mayor Andrew Coates. Born in Oklahoma City, he had lived in Watchung since 1986. Surviving are his wife, Jane A.; sons, Roger Brendan, Adam and Christopher; a daughter, Robin Countee-Pistorius; a brother, R.A. Countee; a sister, Brenda McKerson, and a stepsister, Ricki Kelly-Smith. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 19:27:17 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: no one is really sure njc > "Old South" women of > my mother's age group all knew of someone in their own family > tree who was queer, so there's a sort of "forced" forgiveness. > On the other (and scarier!) hand, that "politeness" that was very > much a part of the Old South seems to be going the way of hoop > skirts and cotillions. i know this is not related, really, but there is a woman in a prgram called Family Law, middle aged, who has the most wonderful Southern accent and manner. I know it is very American of me to say so, but i could just listen to her for ages. Listening to why and how she killed her husband was a real treat. she spoke as if she were desciribing an afternoon tea party. > > Just my 2 cents. > > Cindy > > ********* > And Mack - > My thoughts continue to be with you as you face this uncertainty. > Let me know if I can do anything.... > > C - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:38:39 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: no one is really sure njc colin wrote: > i know this is not related, really, but there is a woman in a prgram > called Family Law, middle aged, who has the most wonderful Southern > accent and manner. I know it is very American of me to say so, but i > could just listen to her for ages. Listening to why and how she killed > her husband was a real treat. she spoke as if she were desciribing an > afternoon tea party. That would be Dixie Carter, best known as Julia Sugarbaker from Designing Women. She is a real charmer, married to Hal Holbrook. BTW, Designing Women is very popular with gay men, as is Golden Girls, here in the U.S. Jerry Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:05:52 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: "Treibgut im Wind" Pretty cool! I've had a nice discussion this day with a guitarist/singer in Germany. He's recorded a CD of covers, and there's not one, not 2, but three(!) Joni songs. What makes it doubly cool is that he's recorded them all in German. For Karin, Marian, and the others out there that are fluent, here's the page where you can find the lyrics: http://www.gerdschinkel.de/tFundgrube.htm#Beide Seiten He's translated Morning Morgantown & Conversation as well, but was not pleased with the recordings so he left them off. And yes, your ever-vigilant Joni covers watchdog is on his way to getting this CD, Gerd wants me to trade a Shania Twain for it. God Bless Germany! Bob NP: Toni Childs, "The Dead Are Dancing" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:16:44 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Sneaky Right Wingers At It Again...(njc) Congress, or certain members of it, are taking advantage of the holidays and all the stuff in the news to try to sneak in a ban on the legal recognition of gay marriages or domestic partnerships. Please take a second to read the material at this address: http://www.petitiononline.com/0712t001/petition.html Thanks, and may we all find some peace and happiness in the midst of all the evil that is going on in the world. Walt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:29:17 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Covers NJC I am no musician either but I know bad when I hear it. I had seen and heard Kenny G numerous times on television and found him very difficult to listen to. Kind of like pulling teeth or nails across a chalkboard. Ugh. I loaned my Tina Turner tape to someone and they copped it. Haven't had a chance to replace it. Have a compilation tape of various artists that basically sucks but it does have one Tina tune on it. "I Don't Wanna Fight" I find that song great and the music and instrumentation takes me away. When I listen to the song I am made strong and it gives me courage to face the world and what may come to me. Unfortunately, this is a cassette and I have to wait through various crappy tunes and the one preceding Tina is Kenny G. UGH! Almost like a bowel movement that will not come. Sorry, that is a nursing analogy but it is very accurate. (Don't ever have a meal with nurses unless you have a very strong stomach). I keep waiting for the excitement, the rise, the point where the feelings comes. It never does. I loathe his music and though there may be some who find him great, it is not me. Surprisingly, I did find a tune on the tape that is quite good. It is "weak" by SWV. Had never heard of them, before or since. Goes to show that I miss a lot by being so far out. Mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Pritchard" To: "list" Cc: Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 6:02 AM Subject: RE: Covers NJC > Mike said > >>Many people would name [Beethoven] as an important composer or as their > favourite composer without knowing much more than the opening motif (is it > sacrilegious to say 'riff' here?) of the 5th symphony, or 'Nessun Dorma'<< > > > Fred replied > >>Or even without knowing that "Nessun Dorma" was composed by Puccini! > (insert > your favorite emoticon here)<< > > Mike now says > Yes, Puccini composed Nessun Dorma, not Beethoven. While writing the mail I > couldn't recall the composer (Verdi? Puccini?) so I included the name of the > singer of the most 'popular' version, i.e Pavarroti, not meaning to suggest > that it was a Beethoven piece. Sorry if I gave this impression. > > Mike said > >>Kenny G may 'technically' be a very good musician (damning with faint > praise!) but lacks something; call it soul, call it feeling, call it what you > want<< > > Fred said > >>Here we differ: Kenny G is *not* a good musician, technically or otherwise > (bad tone, out of tune, poor note choices, arrhythmic feel, bad taste).<< > > Mike now says > Thanks Fred. I said 'may' technically be very good, and 'may' is the operative > word here. As a non-musician I am in no position to judge musicians' ability, > only how they appeal to me or not. I didn't realise he was so bad, though > LOL. > > Fred said > >>However, I think he does have soul, his own version of it at least > (everyone > does), and I think he's sincere. This goes a long way to explain his > popularity.<< > > Mike now says > Here we differ. If he has soul, it is different to what I understand it to > mean. I do not doubt his sincerity. > > Mike said > >>I love Miles Davis and happily accept that there are other, better players > than Miles > but he does it for me.<< > > Fred said > >>There *aren't* better players than Miles ... there are those who may play > faster or higher, but no one, on *any* instrument, plays *music* better than > Miles. Of course, many musicians play music equally as well as Miles, but none > better.<< > > Mike now says > My remarks about being a non-musician apply here too. I have heard many people > say that Miles is an all-time great as an innovator, bandleader, and trumpeter > etcetera but did not possess the best technique (that word again). I am happy > to accept this but for me Miles usually hits all the right notes. Whatever > people say against him doesn't affect how I feel about Miles. Could you > clarify one thing Fred, please? When you say "no one, on *any* instrument, > plays *music* better than Miles" do you say this because Miles was the > greatest musician or because comparisons are unhelpful, invalid, or just plain > stupid? > > Mike said > >>One of my all-time musical highlights was listening to Wayne Shorter and > Herbie Hancock's quartet playing here in BCN in around 1994. They played a > piece without bass or drums, just the two of them, a very slow, tender, > beautiful piece of music which was as perfect as music can get. If I ever > reach that state of bliss again I'll be very happy.<< > > Fred said > >>Mike, if you want to achieve that blissful state again, get hold of their > duo album, "1+1"<< > > Mike now says > Thanks Fred for this information. I put on a T-shirt of the concert the other > day and realised the concert took place in October 1991, not 1994! How time > flies. Nice talking to you, Fred. There's so much to learn here. > > mike > np swordfishtrombones Tom Waits ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #584 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?