From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #583 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, December 10 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 583 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: December 9 [les@jmdl.com] Today in Joni History: December 9 [les@jmdl.com] Re: Erika Luckett (njc) -- keeping on the lyric-writing theme... [Richard] Re: Music NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] Re: Covering NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] Issey Miyake & Joni on Canadian Fashion TV [RoseMJoy@aol.com] finding light in the darkness [Mags N Brei ] For the Roses [Chuck Eisenhardt ] RE: For the Roses ["Wally Kairuz" ] Covering NJC (long) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: For the Roses [RoseMJoy@aol.com] RE: For the Roses ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: For the Roses [RoseMJoy@aol.com] RE: For the Roses ["Wally Kairuz" ] december 8 njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: My mom ... ["L. R. Fye" ] Re: For the Roses [RoseMJoy@aol.com] no one is really sure njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: For the Roses [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: no one is really sure njc [AsharaJM@aol.com] RE: bedrooms and politics NJC, short ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Re: no one is really sure njc ["Mark or Travis" ] RE: [Fwd: finding light in the darkness] ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: december 8 njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: no one is really sure njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Hidden tracks? njc (was "Alicia's uninspiring Keys and PJ") ["Jim L'] Re: Covering NJC (long) [FredNow@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 03:00:24 -0500 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: December 9 On December 9 these articles were published: 1995: "Billboard honors Joni Mitchell with its highest accolade" - Billboard (Biography, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/951209bbx.cfm 1995: "Joni Mitchell - A Portrait of the Artist" - Billboard (Biography, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/951209bb.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 652 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 03:00:24 -0500 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: December 9 On December 9 in Joni Mitchell History: 1966: Contributed by Pat Henry: Joni performs tonight and tomorrow night at the Folk Cellar III in Port Huron, Michigan. This was one of her first appearances alone without Chuck Mitchell since she'd left Canada. Click the link for a copy of the ad that ran in the 'Port Huron Times-Herald' that week (Note that the price of admission was $1.25) More info: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1502641&a=11682876&p=41512516&Sequence=0&res=high - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 04:00:03 -0800 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Re: Erika Luckett (njc) -- keeping on the lyric-writing theme... Far out, is what I want to say. (I love that expression). It's how far in, 20 close, that some of us are. Walt said he thought Erika somehow was connected to Kate, or . . . Kate to Erika, or .... you two knew each other or....something about some connection. Far out! Richard N.P.: Holcombe Waller, "Twist", acoustic/unreleased version >Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 11:54:03 -0800 >From: "Kate Bennett" >Subject: Erika Luckett (njc) -- keeping on the lyric-writing theme... > >Yes Walt, once again its a small world. Erika is another indiegrrl colleague >of mine. We shared a showcase (Taylor) last year at the Vancouver Folk >Alliance. She is a wonderful singer/songwriter- I so agree! And a really >nice person. And extraordinary guitar player too! Its so delightful ... >hearing you discover some of these folks that I know! Thanks for spreading >the word! > >>>!Erika Lucket is an amazing find!!! Any of you coffeehouse-cabaret circuit >musicians know her?<< >******************************************** >Kate Bennett >www.katebennett.com >sponsored by Polysonics >Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: >http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 13:51:14 +0100 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re: Music NJC Nuri said, >>This weekend i'm listening to the wonderful 'This Mortal Coil'.<< Nuri, what a great surprise. You are the only person on this list I have seen mention tmc apart from myself. 'Blood' was mentioned as one of my 10 desert island disks way back in late September. >>The 3 This Mortal Coil releases are always in the music shops<< Well, here I'd have to disagree with you. I first heard tmc in Wales in 1988 or so and it took me almost 10 years to find it in a shop. I finally located it in Cob Records, a record shop in my home town that specialised in second-hand records. It used to call itself the biggest second hand record shop in the world but I doubt it really was. Anyway, I found 'Blood' there in the late 90s and it was so good to hear it again. I've looked for other stuff by them but without any luck until last Friday! I was out looking for Laura Nyro, without success, and came across 'Filigree and Shadow' instead. I continued the search for Laura in 8 or 9 other shops and had no luck there either. By that time I was too tired to go back to the shop with the tmc cd but I'll go on Monday. Emmylou Harris' ''til I gain control again' is the only song I had another version of and I'm wondering how the other originals sounded. Thanks very much for mentioning the details of the original versions. I never cared much for the Cocteaus but I have three CDs by Dead Can Dance and saw them live here 3 or 4 years ago. They used to live in Barcelona and I think they still keep a place here. mike in bcn np Buena Vista Social Club ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 14:19:41 +0100 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re: Covering NJC Marian said: >>I have never heard Kenny G. play and I would probably agree with you that Wayne Shorter plays better than him and most other people for that matter, but I don't like going there. I feel there is something inherently bad/wrong in making these kinds of comparisons/judgments.<< But surely Marian you will not deny that records by these, and other, musicians CAN be compared. When we all sent our desert island disks to the list we had to make objective and/or subjective judgments on what to include on the list. Surely your criterion for inclusion was that you (and all of us too, of course) felt that these records were better than others. If not, how did you decide? Marian continued >>As a mom, I make a big effort not to compare one child with another. I try to be supportive of all of their creative and other efforts at learning and growing. In my view, in an ideal world, we would all approach each other in this manner. We would all urge/encourage each other to find and express what is inside. It is my view that criticizing others is a way of avoiding exploring one's own creative urges/abilities.<< I can't speak as a parent although I agree with the sentiment you express. As a teacher I also try not to compare one student with another although it is part of my job to 'grade' the work they produce. It doesn't mean I feel some are superior to others but one can't deny that the work they produce determines if they get to the next level or have to stay and repeat. The system doesn't work otherwise. I try my best to make all my students produce the best they can although some students' best is better than others, inevitably. We live in a very competitive world and I wish there were other ways to live our lives other than in competition with everyone else from a very early age although I have yet to find it. Regards mike in bcn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:58:36 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Issey Miyake & Joni on Canadian Fashion TV I went over to Joni Mitchell.com knowing that Jim was almost finished with Part lll of the Hommage report and just learned of this program that was aired yesterday. Did any of our Canadian Joniphiles happen to catch this segmant and record it, Mags, Stephen, Ken, Shane? Jim delivered as promised Part lll of the Hommage event. He's done a wonderful job; I almost felt like I was there. Jim, how did you remember all of these details, did you have a steno pad with you ,lol? You've got a gift Jim and now I understand why it must have been so much fun for you and Wally working together as a team. Thanks for carrying on this legacy. I honestly don't know if I can wait until the spring thaw for Part IV when Joni takes the stage! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 08:23:18 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: finding light in the darkness When the the glory of the setting sun is laid to rest this evening, signifying the first night of Hanukkah, I will place our menorah in the window and listen as Brian sings the traditional blessings. The Jewish festival of Hanukkah begins at sundown with the lighting of the first candle on the menorah, and it continues until sunset December 17th. It is the beginning of the eight day festival of lights. One additional candle is lit each evening, using a candle called the shamash to light the candles. There are nine candles in total, the shamash, (the helper) and eight other candles,one for each night. The candles are lit from right to left just as Hebrew is read from right to left. The holiday is celebrated beginning on the 25th day of the month of Kislev on the Hebrew calendar, which is currently in the year 5762. The Hebrew word Hanukkah means dedication. The people rededicated their temple after many of the beautiful furnishings had been destroyed. The Jewish soldiers and Judah Macabaeus, who led them into the resistance after the death of his father Mattathias, cleaned the temple. They wanted to prepare a big celebration for the rededication. They searched everywhere for oil to light the menorah, which by tradition was kept lighted at all times. But they could find only enough oil to light the menorah for one day. According to the traditional story, a miracle happened and the oil lasted for eight days - the time it took to produce more oil. This is one of the many ways that Brian and I integrate our lives and our love for each another, as we continue along our life long journey together. It is my honour and privilege to be included in this beloved ritual that is an integral part of my Brian's life, heart, soul, and spirit. thank you to Brian and to our beloved brother Wally's touching post within which he shares how he celebrates this special time of year. It is with love and respect that I honour this special tradition. always and always, Mags xoxox - -- And this loving is a drawing close, a tuning in, an opening. Until one perfect moment; but how can it be expressed? A receiving, an enfolding as I cradle you in my arms. Within my heart, within my soul, You are my true love. --Lui Collins - --- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ ===== I've got you to see me through, looking out for what I do Spreading sunshine from the skies, placing rainbows in my eyes Got you watching out for me, making sense of what I see When my world is wearing blue, I've got you to see me through . - ---by Eleanor McEvoy on her album Yola (2001) . Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 11:16:40 -0500 From: Chuck Eisenhardt Subject: For the Roses I was talking to Murphy about the dearth of Joni references in Tim White's James Taylor bio (there are about six, and absolutely nothing at all that's relevatory. ) Which led me to look to he obviously JT marker-drawing in the For the Roses folio, facing the lyrics to the song...with a rose in the foreground... But I wanted to ask the list if anyone can point to a Joni statement that "For the Roses" was definitely written to or about James? There's enough circumstantial evidence for me, but I'm just wondering if there was ever a clear statement from Her. ChuckE ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 14:32:21 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: For the Roses is that JT???? i thought someone said that was judy collins! there's tat thing about the suspenders [SYS}. after she released FTR, taylor had that album out with the suspenders on the cover. joni said, ''the cat was out of the bag!''. not much of a statement but that's all i remember. oh wait... you mean the song, not the album? wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Chuck Eisenhardt Enviado el: Domingo, 09 de Diciembre de 2001 01:17 p.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: For the Roses But I wanted to ask the list if anyone can point to a Joni statement that "For the Roses" was definitely written to or about James? There's enough circumstantial evidence for me, but I'm just wondering if there was ever a clear statement from Her. ChuckE ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:38:31 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Covering NJC (long) I think this is very true. Marian's post reminds me that truly this is the highest essence of the arts. It is about self-expression. I have been oh so guilty of saying I don't get why so & so is popular, but I think when this is the case it is because they are getting huge commercial success when others are not. However, commercial success has a lot to do with what kind of marketing dollars are behind the artist. When it comes to the music marketplace, its not always about art. Its about making $. Still, I like your reminder, Marian that criticizing can also be avoiding one's own creativity... >>>As a mom, I make a big effort not to compare one child with another. I try to be supportive of all of their creative and other efforts at learning and growing. In my view, in an ideal world, we would all approach each other in this manner. We would all urge/encourage each other to find and express what is inside. It is my view that criticizing others is a way of avoiding exploring one's own creative urges/abilities.<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 12:43:59 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: For the Roses In a message dated 12/9/01 11:36:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, chucke@tiac.net writes: > ) Which led me to look to he obviously JT marker-drawing in the > For the Roses folio, facing the lyrics to the song...with a rose in the > foreground... > OK, so now you've got me looking at that drawing ChuckE....I guess I'm not going to get that tree up today. In the drawing I happened also to notice the cards on the table with only the 7 of hearts face up. Hearts can be derived from the suit of Cups in the ancient Tarot, it's symbolism signifying Love, emotions, fulfillment, and matters of the Heart. Oh, and elementally and astrologically, Cups are a water sign. James is a Pisces if I'm not mistaken That's my $.02 rose in nj ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 14:52:45 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: For the Roses are you talking about FTR? where art the cards? wally, so confused now - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de RoseMJoy@aol.com Enviado el: Domingo, 09 de Diciembre de 2001 02:44 p.m. Para: chucke@tiac.net CC: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: For the Roses In a message dated 12/9/01 11:36:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, chucke@tiac.net writes: > ) Which led me to look to he obviously JT marker-drawing in the > For the Roses folio, facing the lyrics to the song...with a rose in the > foreground... > OK, so now you've got me looking at that drawing ChuckE....I guess I'm not going to get that tree up today. In the drawing I happened also to notice the cards on the table with only the 7 of hearts face up. Hearts can be derived from the suit of Cups in the ancient Tarot, it's symbolism signifying Love, emotions, fulfillment, and matters of the Heart. Oh, and elementally and astrologically, Cups are a water sign. James is a Pisces if I'm not mistaken That's my $.02 rose in nj ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 13:03:12 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: For the Roses The drawing that Chucke is referring to, is opposite the lyrics in the FTR songbook Wallister, I'll scan the page later and send it to you. roses ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 15:13:47 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: For the Roses oooooooooohhhhh... i thought chuck was talking about the album!!!!! i've been staring at judy collins portrait for HOURS trying to find the cards. i have no reading comprehension at all! thanks, for the rosie. - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de RoseMJoy@aol.com Enviado el: Domingo, 09 de Diciembre de 2001 03:03 p.m. Para: wallykai@fibertel.com.ar; chucke@tiac.net CC: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: For the Roses The drawing that Chucke is referring to, is opposite the lyrics in the FTR songbook Wallister, I'll scan the page later and send it to you. roses ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 10:20:37 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: december 8 njc i love this idea, i have never heard of hiraeth, but would love to learn more...over the last few days i have been trying to finish a song that has been with me for a long time, yet, i am having a hard time finding the words to express...i think it may be related to this idea...how can i find out more about hiraeth? >>on december 8 my heart begins a journey. i am full of joy and melancholy and wonder. i am full of what the welsh call hiraeth. it's a yearning for the past and a yearning for the future.<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 10:37:06 -0800 (PST) From: "L. R. Fye" Subject: Re: My mom ... In my haste on Nov 30, I completely forgot to add "NJC" to my subject line. I've done it this time on purpose, so I can say THANK YOU to all of you, for all of your kind and warm words of support. I'll try to write individual letters soon. Back again and getting by, Lori in MD ~ Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 15:07:52 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: For the Roses In a message dated 12/9/01 1:14:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: > oooooooooohhhhh... i thought chuck was talking about the album!!!!! i've > been staring at judy collins portrait for HOURS trying to find the cards. i > have no reading comprehension at all! thanks, for the rosie. > Here's the marker drawing Wally....I've sent it to jonimitchellfans as well where you can send attachments Goodnight you moonlight ladies Rockabye sweet baby James Deep greens and blues are the colors I choose Won't you let me go down in my dreams And rockabye sweet baby James [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of For the Roses.jpg] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 15:02:26 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: no one is really sure njc I wanted and needed to share this with the list. Like the line from the Joe Jackson tune: "cause we think it's getting better but nobody's really sure." A couple of weeks ago the daughter of one of our patients insisted upon her mother having physical therapy. I called the Dr. and set it up. We were in a state of flux at that time because the physical therapy company we had been using had been sold and therefore, we had no one for a little while. The new company came aboard. They were starkly different from the exiting company. Those who had left were rarely there when they were supposed to be and even when they did come, they were very lackluster in what they did. With a couple of exceptions, they were not interested in working with the patients and Rosalie and I were very unhappy with them because of it. That company had worked with this patient and the daughter knew them. The new company is an entirely different story. They are prompt, always there when promised, and work the patients in the way that one would expect. Already the results have been great. Today, the daughter came to me and told me she wanted the therapy, that she had insisted upon, halted. She said it was too hard on her mother and painful. I reminded her that it was her idea in the first place, that therapy could be painful but would be beneficial in the long run, and that her mother needed it. She went on to make comments that went all over me but I had to bite my tongue. "Mama doesn't like that Filipino girl working with her and she is uncomfortable with that black man, too." I wondered if it was mama (though I knew that it was probably true) alone or if she felt the same way. She went on to say that the therapy was not working and her mother didn't need it. The exiting company were all white women. The people that I have seen from this company are not all Caucasian. Darn, they do a good job. So very frustrating. This area is not only homophobic to a major degree but racism is even worse. If they had to choose between the two, they would pick the homosexuals. The next county over is notorious, famous, or infamous, depending on how you look at it. They used to have a sign, a billboard, outside the city limits that warned black people to not be inside the county when the sun went down. This place is so backward, it is frightening. I read a post the last couple of days that said we must continue to be vigilant and to speak out whenever we could and that is so true. I was taught racism my entire life and though I have not completely dispelled all of those feelings, I continue to fight to rid myself of all of it. Like a fungus it hangs around and continues to try to grow. When will we be rid of the ignorance that is racism? Mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 16:14:45 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: A little Joni in my day (sjc) Yo, gang, I got out of the house yesterday, went to one sheet music store, went to a movie, and then went to another sheet music store. At the first, I found Elvis Costello & Burt Bacharach's album "Painted from Memory". Then I saw "My Life As A House", which did have that shortened version of "Both Sides Now", and then at the second store I bought "Taming the Tiger", the only Joni thing they had (although they were willing to order *some* of her other catalog). I'm looking forward to struggling with the odd time signatures and difficult chord & key changes of both books (piano, in my case). Easiest trivia question of the year: Which song on TtT would have a tie-in with the Bach/Costello album? If you get this right, you win absolutely nothing. :-) Anyway, I had a good day, with some Joni in it. hugs to all around, walt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:19:27 EST From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Alicia's uninspiring Keys/back after a long break (NJC) Dear Brenda, I was extremely intrigued by your comments about Alicia Keys and would love to hear more about Clive Davis, the record industry, and the machinery that takes one from obscurity to fame. You are the first person I've come across that did not feel Alicia Keys was the "end all" that the rest of the music industry is making her out to be. I really like her, but I agree with you that Eryka Badu(sp?) and Jill Scott are extremely talented even though they are not making the headlines that Alicia Keys is making right now. I was especially intrigued at your comments concerning Alicia's and India's performances on the Oprah show. As a singer, I am going to take your comments to heart and make sure that my sound is as solid as Jill Scott's sound. Jill Scott may have more of a track record performing in front of audiences. From what I understand, she had a role in the musical, "Rent." Sometimes, you read a post and the information provided is so thorough and interesting, it's like you food for the soul. I am so hungry to learn everything I can about this business. You have given me some very valuable, well written information concerning my area of the industry. I would be honored to hear anything else you have to say about this subject on or off line. Thanks so much for your comments! Sherelle NP-Star Trek-Next Generation In a message dated 12/08/2001 12:05:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 18:31:59 -0800 > From: "Brenda" > Subject: Re: Alicia's uninspiring Keys/back after a long break (NJC) > > > I think Alicia's popularity stems from not only the fact that she is very > attractive (and thus "marketable") but also that she is the marquis act for > > Clive Davis' label J Records. After being tossed out of Arista under the > guise > of being too old (having passed BMG's draconian age limit for members of > the > executive suite), Clive was intent on proving that he was really sacked for > > being too successful and thus too powerful. (BTW - Arista has been a shell > of > its former self since the reigns were given to L.A. Reid.) > > Clive is arguably one of the most powerful record executives when it comes > to > media manipulation (probably only second to Tommy Mottola). He has the > press > in his pocket. (Witness Whitney Houston's embarrassing and public drug > abuse > descent which even the mainstream media started covering after Clive's > departure. Her problem started long before she married Bobby Brown but > Clive > kept the wolves at bay for years.) And he has pulled out all the stops for > > Alicia. Success breeds success for new artists and he made sure that her > album > charted high the first week. She's had all the right magazine covers and > television performances. It's been years since an independent label has > pulled > off something like this. Clive is proving that he can not only have > success > with immense talents like Whitney & Aretha but also with mediocre talent > like > Alicia. > > Alicia's appearance on Oprah undoubtedly helped her with the soccer mom > set, > although she sounded like she was at a high school talent contest to me - > nervous vocal cracks and all. (India Arie was on the same show and did > only a > little better. Jill Scott, however! Quite simply, she rocked the house.) > I > thought Alicia's performance of the Donny Hathaway tune was rife with pitch > > problems and not fitting the genius legacy of the man, let alone the fairly > > high calibur of performances that evening. (If you want a treat, hear > Kenny > Lattimore or Donny's daughter Lalah perform it.) > > If you want the real goods on "new soul" check out the new album from > Alicia's > label mate Angie Stone. > > Brenda ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 17:39:27 -0500 From: Chuck Eisenhardt Subject: Re: For the Roses Yes, thank you, Rose! I was referring to the songbook (Folio, I call it) to For The Roses. The artwork is Joni 'marker pen' style and the juxtaposition of the FTR lyrics and the very JT-looking, morning after motel-room guitar and a solitaire game 7 of hearts (with a rose as well ) seems, well, pretty conclusive. The lyrics, too, yah? I was just wondering if Joni ever came out with a patent admission... ...as Sam Clemens said, 'Sometimes circumstantial evidence is very strong, like when you find a trout in the milk.' ChuckE ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 18:51:10 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: For the Roses "The impetus for the song had come as James Taylor teetered on the brink of impending stardom, as she described: I was watching his career and I was thinking that as his woman at that time I should be able to support him. And yet it seemed to me that I could see the change in his future would remove things from his life. I felt like having come through, having had a small taste of success, and having seen the consequences of what you think it's going to give you-well, I just felt I was in no position to help. I knew what he needed was someone to support him and say it was all wonderful. But everything I saw him going through was ludicrous, because I thought it was ludicrous when I'd done it. It was a very difficult time and the song was actually written for that person: 'In the office sits a poet and he trembles as he sings and he asks some guy to circulate his soul around........" Taken from Karen O'Brien's S&L biography on Joni. Don't know the source though. If you want to read more, you have to buy the book, right Karen? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 20:40:10 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: no one is really sure njc I read Mack's post with my jaw open so wide, it just lay there on my desk. Can it be possible that people really feel this way? How can it be? How is this even POSSIBLE?????????? This post made me so, so sad tonight. I have no place in me to comprehend this. Tonight, with the first snow of the season, I looked out at the beauty of the lights on the newly fallen snow. Our family lit the first Hanukah candle this night with the intention of bringing light into the darkness of this world. I read Mack's post out loud to help my children understand more fully what I have tried to help them understand since they were born; that there is no room for prejudice, racism, or injustice of any kind. I have taught them to speak out against this kind of thing, and to do everything they can to change this way of thinking. One Hanukah night......one light........one day at a time........we WILL change the world. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 22:22:19 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: RE: bedrooms and politics NJC, short Funny as it may seem, I agree with ya Mags. Activism is great and one of the key strengths of social democracies like Canada, the UK, and the US. (And, I think NZ, Australia, and Austria too?) I apologize, as a straight person, for weighing in on a gay issue. Maybe it's not my place. That said, my take is that his sexuality is his own business, not his employers. Politically, he can balance his priorites and isn't automatically required to take up any cause that might be more self-destructive than effective. It seems, remarkably, that we are all saying the same thing. (?) I've been away for the weekend so I apologize for replying late. Lama > From: Mags [mailto:pholden@iprimus.ca] Mags said, > when I read this, I could not help but be reminded of > a phrase that was central to my feminist politics > courses at York University, a phrase which made so > much sense to me, then and now, a phrase which is > woven in to the very fabric of my life, still... > > "the personal is political" > > for some people, the aforementioned phrase has moved > them to effect change not only in their own life, but > in the life of others. > > Mags > -----Original Message----- > Lama wrote to Mack: > > < reform. Bedroom politics > don't belong in the Personnel Office, right?>> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 22:43:48 -0500 From: Mags Subject: Re: bedrooms and politics NJC, short theoretically, I agree with you Jim. It is no one's business but Mack's...that said, the powers that be have made it theirs and everyone else's business...and yea it pisses me off too and makes me sad and frustrated as hell that we as human beings are even having this conversation. The whole thing is f***** up if you ask me. What is behind all of this horrible racism and homophobia anyway??? Activism .... well more like this Jim, here in this country when something so ridiculous is going down, we just cannot be silent. Sometimes we just have to speak out. And sometimes it works, sometimes we can affect change. Sometimes. I believe that. At times like this when I see such garbage as this going on yea, that is when it is so damned hard to stay out of it. The continuing saga of Mack's is so very sad as Ashara pointed out in her beautiful post. I am alsodeeply sorry for Mack and for all of us who are subject to such *(&(& small minded thinking, or lack thereof. it is very difficult for me to articulate this. .. I hope I am making sense. Mags. "Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama)" wrote: > Funny as it may seem, I agree with ya Mags. Activism is great and one of > the key strengths of social democracies like Canada, the UK, and the US. > (And, I think NZ, Australia, and Austria too?) I apologize, as a straight > person, for weighing in on a gay issue. Maybe it's not my place. > > That said, my take is that his sexuality is his own business, not his > employers. Politically, he can balance his priorites and isn't > automatically required to take up any cause that might be more > self-destructive than effective. It seems, remarkably, that we are all > saying the same thing. (?) > > I've been away for the weekend so I apologize for replying late. > > Lama > > > From: Mags [mailto:pholden@iprimus.ca] > Mags said, > > when I read this, I could not help but be reminded of > > a phrase that was central to my feminist politics > > courses at York University, a phrase which made so > > much sense to me, then and now, a phrase which is > > woven in to the very fabric of my life, still... > > > > "the personal is political" > > > > for some people, the aforementioned phrase has moved > > them to effect change not only in their own life, but > > in the life of others. > > > > Mags > > > -----Original Message----- > > Lama wrote to Mack: > > > > < > reform. Bedroom politics > > don't belong in the Personnel Office, right?>> - -- And this loving is a drawing close, a tuning in, an opening. Until one perfect moment; but how can it be expressed? A receiving, an enfolding as I cradle you in my arms. Within my heart, within my soul, You are my true love. --Lui Collins - --- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 20:00:17 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: no one is really sure njc One Hanukah night......one light........one day at a > time........we WILL change the world. Peter Paul & Mary do a Hanukah song on the recording of their Holiday Celebration concert called 'Light One Candle'. I love what it says and I think I usually post the lyrics at some time during the season: Light One Candle - -Peter Yarrow Light one candle for the Maccabee children Give thanks that their light didn't die Light one candle for the pain they endured When their right to exist was denied Light one candle for the terrible sacrifice Justice and freedom demand Light one candle for the wisdom to know When the peacemaker's time is at hand Chorus: Don't let the light go out It's lasted for so many years Don't let the light go out Let it shine through our love & our tears Light one candle for the strength that we need To never become our own foe Light one candle for those who are suffering The pain we learned so long ago Light one candle for all we believe in That anger not tear us apart Light one candle to bind us together With peace and a song in our heart Chorus What is the memory we value so highly That we keep alive in that place? What's the commitment to those who have died? We cry out they've not died in vain! We have come this far with all we believe in That justice will somehow prevail This is the verdict, this is the promise And this is why we will not fail! Don't let the light go out It's lasted for so many years Don't let the light go out Let it shine through our love & our tears Don't let the light go out It's lasted for so many years Don't let the light go out Let it shine through our love & our tears Don't let the light go out Don't let the light go out Don't let the light go out! To all of you that celebrate it, I wish you a blessed Hanukah. And to all of the JMDL, may you all continue to be the beacons of light & hope that you are. Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 01:01:29 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: [Fwd: finding light in the darkness] today they lit the second candle on the giant menorah that the city government has erected on the corner of the street where i live. i thought of the hanukah miracle and i prayed for my country to survive the terrible days ahead. wallyK, waiting for the third candle to be lit. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 23:04:50 -0500 From: Mags Subject: Re: bedrooms and politics NJC, short p.s. Of course I must apologize for that overly emotional response. Not a good day around here. mags. "Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama)" wrote: > Funny as it may seem, I agree with ya Mags. Activism is great and one of > the key strengths of social democracies like Canada, the UK, and the US. > (And, I think NZ, Australia, and Austria too?) I apologize, as a straight > person, for weighing in on a gay issue. Maybe it's not my place. > > That said, my take is that his sexuality is his own business, not his > employers. Politically, he can balance his priorites and isn't > automatically required to take up any cause that might be more > self-destructive than effective. It seems, remarkably, that we are all > saying the same thing. (?) > > I've been away for the weekend so I apologize for replying late. > > Lama > > > From: Mags [mailto:pholden@iprimus.ca] > Mags said, > > when I read this, I could not help but be reminded of > > a phrase that was central to my feminist politics > > courses at York University, a phrase which made so > > much sense to me, then and now, a phrase which is > > woven in to the very fabric of my life, still... > > > > "the personal is political" > > > > for some people, the aforementioned phrase has moved > > them to effect change not only in their own life, but > > in the life of others. > > > > Mags > > > -----Original Message----- > > Lama wrote to Mack: > > > > < > reform. Bedroom politics > > don't belong in the Personnel Office, right?>> - -- And this loving is a drawing close, a tuning in, an opening. Until one perfect moment; but how can it be expressed? A receiving, an enfolding as I cradle you in my arms. Within my heart, within my soul, You are my true love. --Lui Collins - --- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 01:03:21 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: december 8 njc kate, i love the concept of hiraeth and i've written songs about it. well, the right person to tell us all about hiraeth is here with us. mike pritchard: speak up! wally, outing the welsh - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Kate Bennett Enviado el: Domingo, 09 de Diciembre de 2001 03:21 p.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: december 8 njc i love this idea, i have never heard of hiraeth, but would love to learn more...over the last few days i have been trying to finish a song that has been with me for a long time, yet, i am having a hard time finding the words to express...i think it may be related to this idea...how can i find out more about hiraeth? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 01:06:38 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: no one is really sure njc oh mack!!!! can this be true? where is america when america needs it? wally, now more convinced than ever that the personal is political ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 01:09:09 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Hidden tracks? njc (was "Alicia's uninspiring Keys and PJ") Hidden tracks? One thumb up from northern Kentucky. One thing I like about vinyl is that some bands let you take a breath between tracks, as if..... (dare I say it?) as if there were human beings actually creating music in a room instead of sounds being extruded from a machine as "tracks". Steely Dan and Riki Lee Jones come to mind. There are some serious silences on "Pirates" if I recall. Also, check out the long silence just before "Chords" on Jon Anderson's "Olias of Sunhollow". In my smokin' days, I sometimes thought I was asleep during that silence, until "Chords" came on and let me tell you, it WORKS as a dreamscape. Dunno if the silence survived the CD transfer business. 'guess I'm satisfied with my 2 copies on LP. Others? Lama Bob Muller asked, >>What do y'all think: Hidden tracks, thumbs up or down? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 02:32:20 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Covering NJC (long) I really agree with most of what Mike has to say here, and he said it very well. As far as the canonical pantheon, I propose that artists like Beethoven, Shakespeare, Miles Davis, The Beatles, Joni Mitchell would endure regardless of Harold Bloom, et al. >Many people would name [Beethoven] as an important >composer or as their favourite composer without knowing much more than >the opening motif (is it sacrilegious to say 'riff' here?) of the 5th symphony, >or 'Nessun Dorma' Or even without knowing that "Nessun Dorma" was composed by Puccini! (insert your favorite emoticon here) >Kenny G may 'technically' be a very good musician (damning with faint praise!) >but lacks something; call it soul, call it feeling, call it what you want Here we differ: Kenny G is *not* a good musician, technically or otherwise (bad tone, out of tune, poor note choices, arrhythmic feel, bad taste). However, I think he does have soul, his own version of it at least (everyone does), and I think he's sincere. This goes a long way to explain his popularity. >I love Miles >Davis and happily accept that there are other, better players than Miles >but he does it for me. There *aren't* better players than Miles ... there are those who may play faster or higher, but no one, on *any* instrument, plays *music* better than Miles. Of course, many musicians play music equally as well as Miles, but none better. >One of my all-time musical highlights was listening to Wayne Shorter and >Herbie Hancock's quartet playing here in BCN in around 1994. They played >a piece without bass or drums, just the two of them, a very slow, tender, >beautiful piece of music which was as perfect as music can get. If I ever >reach that state of bliss again I'll be very happy I've heard an entire concert of just Wayne and Herbie, and it was bliss for me and a saxophone playing friend. But for some of the season subscribers sitting in front of us, it was clearly something else. One of them said, "This isn't jazz!" to which another replied, "It's bullshit, that's what it is!". And they weren't alone; at intermission they, and many others, left, after which my friend turned to me and said, "Well, this music isn't for everyone. Unfortunately, everyone is here." Mike, if you want to achieve that blissful state again, get hold of their duo album, "1+1" - -Fred In a message dated 12/7/01 6:21:34 AM, ink08@hotmail.com writes: >Marian said > >>>Within the context of Kenny G, he might be playing saxophone better than >he > >ever played before - to the best of his ability. There is value in that >effort at perfection. << > >Fred said > >>>Why, for instance, almost 200 years after his death, do most of us still >agree that Beethoven was a great composer? It can't only be because a lot >of people simply dig his music ...<< > >now me: > >If we look at people who write words instead of people who write and play >music, then perhaps we can ask, and provisionally answer, another, related >question. "What's the difference between writing and literature?" Answer- >"Literature (the big L is important) is what gets taught in school/university" >(in preference to other stuff which is written but not considered worthy >of being taught). Artistic judgments are made, obviously, but the argument >is about the criteria used when making these choices. In relation to literature, >at least in the 'west', we have what Harold Bloom refers to as 'The Western >Canon' and this canon is chosen by a very small number of academics, based >on whatever criteria they decide is relevant. Thus if, say, Mike Pritchard, >were considered an important and / or influential author by Malcolm Bradbury, >David Lodge, Frank Kermode etc (in the British context; substitute Bloom, >Said, Sontag, Culler etc in north america) then his work would appear on >the curriculum at the universities where they teach and thus successive >generations would study his work, doctoral theses would be written about >him and his work, and these doctoral students would, once they get tenure, >specialise in the teaching of his works. Thus successive generations etc. > >The publicity snowball effect works here too. The book reviewers are frequently >influenced by what the academics believe to be 'worthy' books (after all, >the reviewers are often the same academics) therefore elevating the sales >of the books (frequently written by their colleagues) and reaching a wider >audience. Thus we have a nice little mutual back-scratching mafia saying >wonderful things about each other's novels. Look at the nepotistic and >incestuous (do I go too far?) novels and reviews by Amis, Hornby, Barnes, >McEwan and others in the british arts scene. I'm sure jonilistas in the >US and Canada can think of similar cases over there. > >I'm not saying there are people in the canon who don't deserve to be there, >or that the canon excludes people who deserve to be in - this is a much >longer and complex argument - but the point is that some are in and some >are out, some are good and some not so good. Unfortunately there will always >be people who are unhappy with what is defined as literature, and often >rightly. > >To try and tie in Fred and Marian's arguments I would agree with both of >them up to a point. Beethoven has lasted because he is a canonical composer; >he has entered the pantheon of composers, and has achieved all the 'solidity' >associated with the metaphor. Many people would name him as an important >composer or as their favourite composer without knowing much more than >the opening motif (is it sacrilegious to say 'riff' here?) of the 5th symphony, >or 'Nessun Dorma' as sung by Pavarotti, best known to brits from the 1990 >soccer world cup. Many people would instinctively screw up their face at >the name Stockhausen and Schonberg (AO accents omitted) yet would be hard >pressed to say when they have heard anything by these composers. The reputation >(and what is fashionable) is all. 'Land of snap decisions, land of short >attention spans, nothing is savoured long enough to really understand'. >People don't have enough time or inclination to do the work, they base >their artistic criteria on Sunday Supplement reviews and decorate their >coffee tables with the flavour of the month. How many times have we heard >people talk of the works of Toni Morrison, James Joyce, Heinrich Boll and >Julio Cortazar (AO) when they have only, at best, a superficial passing >relationship to their work? Remember Woody Allen's scene in 'Annie Hall' >about Marshall McLuhan? There is so much bullshit about that it is wonderful >to read people on this list who have taken time to get under the surface >of the work. Thanks for enlightening me / the others. > >Kenny G may 'technically' be a very good musician (damning with faint praise!) >but lacks something; call it soul, call it feeling, call it what you want >but whatever it is, it's not there when you hear him play. Michael Bolton >singing like Marvin Gaye is another example. Technically, I suppose Bolton >is a good singer (what do I know?) but he leaves me cold. Some players >are 'inferior' but have 'it'; maybe 'emotion' is the word. I love Miles >Davis and happily accept that there are other, better players than Miles >but he does it for me. Think of the absurdity of those comparisons of the >fastest guitar player. When I was a teenager everyone talked about Alvin >Lee of Ten Years After as the bees knees 'cos of his speed. Well, speed >isn't everything, but put that speed together with technique and 'feeling' >and you have the makings of a great guitar player. I'm thinking here of >Albert Lee but jonilistas will be able to choose their own favourites. > >Marian, Kenny G may be able to play better now than when he was younger >and may be putting more effort and 'art' into his playing and that effort >does have value, but for me he is objectively and subjectively inferior >to Wayne Shorter, Jan Garbarek and Courtney Pine to talk of only three >current soprano players. > >One of my all-time musical highlights was listening to Wayne Shorter and >Herbie Hancock's quartet playing here in BCN in around 1994. They played >a piece without bass or drums, just the two of them, a very slow, tender, >beautiful piece of music which was as perfect as music can get. If I ever >reach that state of bliss again I'll be very happy, and I'll let you know >about it. I can't imagine Kenny G, the Jeffery Archer of Soprano players, >even getting close. > >Sorry this was so long, it's a long weekend here and there's nothing worse >than someone with opinions, a modem, and with time on his hands. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #583 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?