From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #581 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, December 8 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 581 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- origins of fort macleod [shane ] RE: Jonifest 2002- Beds ["Donna J. Binkley" ] RE: NJC Re: Jonifest 2002- Beds ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Jonifest 2002- Beds ["Donna J. Binkley" ] RE: Jonifest 2002- Beds njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Jonifest 2002- Beds ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: NJC Re: Jonifest 2002- Beds [colin ] pearl harbor njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Q's greatest female singers njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: ENDA (njc) ["Kakki" ] Re: Jonifest 2002- Beds ["hell" ] Re: Jonifest 2002- Beds (njc) ["Kakki" ] Fwd: Boulez "Detained" (NJC) [jan gyn ] Re: Camping NJC [Alison E ] Re: Camping NJC [Alison E ] Re: Camping NJC [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Fwd: No problem for me... :-) [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Erika Luckett (njc) -- keeping on the lyric-writing theme... [BigWaltinSF] Re: Fwd: Boulez "Detained" (NJC) [colin ] elton njc ["mack watson-bush" ] RE: bedrooms and politics NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: No problem for me... :-) ["Mark or Travis" ] RE: Q's greatest female singers njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Blue lyrics ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Blue lyrics [RoseMJoy@aol.com] RE: bedrooms and politics NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] the story of 'what's going on' (njc) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Erika Luckett (njc) -- keeping on the lyric-writing theme... [BigWalt] Subject: Re: Salvation Army Bans Gays [njc] ["Ron Greer" Subject: origins of fort macleod for those interested in a little more of the story of fort macleod, alberta - joni's birthplace, a little real media snippet: http://collections.ic.gc.ca/alberta/audio/211_MacLeod_Cal_Trail_P1.ram cheers, shane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:01:44 -0600 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: Jonifest 2002- Beds Hi All! Ashara is so right! I didn't even stay at her house last year and i still formed lasting relationships. For those of you who've never attended a Jonifest, be prepared to meet good, honest people who are there because they believe in music. Being from a big city, it's not often i get thrown into a crowd of people i don't know and feel like i can trust them all. Last Labor Day, that happened. So to all potential Jonifesters - don't be shy! You'll be pleasantly surprised at the caliber of human beings you meet there! Love to All Donna (The Texas Tush) - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 11:37 AM To: joni@smoe.org; NortheastJonifest@yahoogroups.com Subject: Jonifest 2002- Beds I have had several e-mails from people saying that they really wanted a single room and that they were not comfortable sharing a room with someone they don't know. I am encouraging you all to be a bit more open minded in that regard if this fest is going to work. At my house, people were packed in like sardines into every available space I had, and what I found was that not only did it work beautifully for everyone, but many deep and lasting friendships were made *because* of it. Full Moon is not a large place, but it really is more than big enough if we can all shift into the spirit of grace and cooperation. For this fest to work, and for us to be able to have everyone that wants to be there be able to come, we need to use all the available beds we can. It's not the Ritz, I've already said that, but you probably won't be spending that much time in the room anyway! Thanks, everyone. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:11:55 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: NJC Re: Jonifest 2002- Beds and bob strictly specified ''no monkey business'' in his original request, so there you go. :-) wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de SCJoniGuy@aol.com Enviado el: Viernes, 07 de Diciembre de 2001 02:56 p.m. Para: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com; joni@smoe.org; northeastjonifest@yahoogroups.com Asunto: NJC Re: Jonifest 2002- Beds <> I'll dovetail onto that thought...when we had the N'awlins fest, I *requested* a roomie, and was fortunate to have Bern take me up on my offer. I didn't know him well as he's mostly a lurker, and enjoyed getting to know him and talk to him one on one. I can *guarantee* that you'll make a good friend by following Ashara's advice. Hi Bern!! Bob NP: Rosanne Cash, "River" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:15:52 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Jonifest 2002- Beds all right, people, i get it.... you won't HAVE to share a room with ME!!!!! so take it easy and sign up for pajama party fun. except you, bob murphy. you're coming with me, handsome. wallyK [folks you're safe. we go totally platonic and mellow at jonifest.] [and michael paz showers too!] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:17:54 -0600 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: Jonifest 2002- Beds Paz showered this year? db - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Wally Kairuz Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 2:16 PM To: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com; joni@smoe.org; NortheastJonifest@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Jonifest 2002- Beds all right, people, i get it.... you won't HAVE to share a room with ME!!!!! so take it easy and sign up for pajama party fun. except you, bob murphy. you're coming with me, handsome. wallyK [folks you're safe. we go totally platonic and mellow at jonifest.] [and michael paz showers too!] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:35:06 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Jonifest 2002- Beds njc he did he did! especially after he discovered that his whole spice rack had gone on his clothes. ask him. he'll tell you. wk - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Donna J. Binkley Enviado el: Viernes, 07 de Diciembre de 2001 05:18 p.m. Para: 'Wally Kairuz'; AsharaProducLLC@aol.com; joni@smoe.org; NortheastJonifest@yahoogroups.com Asunto: RE: Jonifest 2002- Beds Paz showered this year? db ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:03:02 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Jonifest 2002- Beds You're right, Ashara, as usual. The idea of sharing a room with a stranger, which the folks here cannot even be categorized as, is somewhat daunting but at the same time exciting and interesting. Reminds me of college days. I had one roommate and he was strange, even moreso than I, but I learned much from him despite it all. He was eccentric, worked in the university cafeteria, and would bring boxes of silverware back to the dorm room with him and store it under his bed. Tall and with a lurchlike gait, he thought I was really strange also. We never carried on one conversation that entire year but I can look back now and have some kind of affection for him. He stayed on his side of the room, minded his own business, and never gave me any grief. I did the same. Camp was much the same way but made a lot of friends there. Sounds exciting to me to meet a new friend. Mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 11:36 AM Subject: Jonifest 2002- Beds > I have had several e-mails from people saying that they really wanted a > single room and that they were not comfortable sharing a room with someone > they don't know. I am encouraging you all to be a bit more open minded in > that regard if this fest is going to work. At my house, people were packed in > like sardines into every available space I had, and what I found was that not > only did it work beautifully for everyone, but many deep and lasting > friendships were made *because* of it. > > Full Moon is not a large place, but it really is more than big enough if we > can all shift into the spirit of grace and cooperation. For this fest to > work, and for us to be able to have everyone that wants to be there be able > to come, we need to use all the available beds we can. It's not the Ritz, > I've already said that, but you probably won't be spending that much time in > the room anyway! Thanks, everyone. > > Hugs, > Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 21:18:14 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC Re: Jonifest 2002- Beds if i was going, which i am not, there is no way i would share. the stuff of nightmares for me. I completely undertsand the need for it tho. guess i'll never get to go now.:-( ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:12:42 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: pearl harbor njc 60 years ago today all of those folks lost their lives at Pearl Harbor. Watching the footage always evokes powerful emotions within me, not unlike those of a few weeks ago. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:17:57 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Q's greatest female singers njc I don't think Karen would have been Karen without Richard. He really did a lot for her. I, too, would have loved to have heard some more from her. She did an album without Richard and even with that voice, it really was not good. So sad that she had to leave us the way that she did. Mack > > where is karen? not within the top ten? i am listening to a new japanese > release with very rare previously unreleased material and i am surprised > that karen's brother, that un.speakable slave driver, could have prevailed > over karen in that way. you should hear karen doing standards. the quality > of her voice is so rich, so fresh yet so somber. someday she'll be > appreciated for what she was: one of the best singers ever. > karen, why didn't you live, baby, you'd be chubby, all right, and in the > year 2001 that would have been such a non-issue. you'd be alive and singing > the standards and i would have married you. karen karen karen... > wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:23:33 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: these lists njc There always seem to be lists. So subjective and more or less worthless but do serve a purpose; beginning discussion and allowing others to find someone new, perhaps. The only one on that list that I find in the league of Joni is Lennon. Why not McCartney? I didn't find his work after the Beatles more than average. And even then, Lennon was no Joni Mitchell. Mack > songwriters ever: > 1) Bob Dylan > 2) John Lennon > 3) Bob Marley > 4) Paul McCartney > 5) Paul Simon > 6) Cole Porter > 7) Jim Morrison > 8) Eminem <--------??????????? > 9) Joni Mitchell > 10) Irving Berlin > > Read it here: > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/010523bbc.cfm > > Les > NP - J.S. Bach "Prelude #7 in E flat minor BWV 876" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 13:36:11 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: ENDA (njc) Michael wrote: > House Leadership through those years, who >are the ones who control what comes up for a >vote: Gingrich, Armey, and most of all Delay. >First is GA, latter two are TX. Their >arguments deem such legislation to be creating >"special rights for homosexuals." Thanks - now I'm getting the picture. I'm sorry to say that I started to pretty much completely tune out and turn off from national politics around 15 years ago when I started perceiving that politcal discourse from both sides was degenerating into nothing more than extreme rhetoric and B.S. and becoming non-productive. About that time, however, I did become much more engaged in California state and local issues where I felt there was still real opportunity where one could effect real change and progress. In only the past couple years have I started to become more engaged in national issues again so I have a lot of catching up to do. Thanks for providing me with this information. It seems very crazy to that something that should have been resolved as a simple civil rights matter long ago probably got bogged down in a lot of side rhetorical B.S. I will read up on this some more and think that all of us in the U.S. need to start being more proactive in contacting our representatives and letting them know how we feel about issues. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 11:03:31 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Jonifest 2002- Beds Ashara wrote: > I have had several e-mails from people saying that they really wanted a > single room and that they were not comfortable sharing a room with someone > they don't know. I am encouraging you all to be a bit more open minded in > that regard if this fest is going to work. At my house, people were packed in > like sardines into every available space I had, and what I found was that not > only did it work beautifully for everyone, but many deep and lasting > friendships were made *because* of it. I'll add my two cents here. I travelled half-way around the world for Jonifest 2001, and obviously had never met anyone on the list before. I stayed with several different jmdlers in my travels and never had a bad moment the whole trip (except for the moment I had to leave). There wasn't a single person at Topsfield that I would not have been happy to share a room with - man or woman. We only slept a couple of hours a night anyway - we were all having too much fun to waste time sleeping! Anyone who feels uncomfortable with this, please don't. Trust me, you have NOTHING to worry about! The only thing you're in danger of doing, is making a life-long friend. Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:07:28 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Jonifest 2002- Beds (njc) Mack, you are cracking me up with your story about the roommate. Since I stayed in the dorms throughout my college career, we were sometimes assigned a new roommate every semester. Oh, I could write many colorful tales about my roommates. But I feel the same way as you - I still have some affection for even the strangest of them! For years now I've looked back and often thought that the main and possibly most important lesson of college life was the roommate experience ;-) Kakki >Reminds me of college days. > I had one roommate and he was strange, even moreso than I, but I learned > much from him despite it all. He was eccentric, worked in the university > cafeteria, and would bring boxes of silverware back to the dorm room with > him and store it under his bed. Tall and with a lurchlike gait, he thought > I was really strange also. We never carried on one conversation that entire > year but I can look back now and have some kind of affection for him. He > stayed on his side of the room, minded his own business, and never gave me > any grief. I did the same. Camp was much the same way but made a lot of > friends there. Sounds exciting to me to meet a new friend. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 14:33:08 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Fwd: Boulez "Detained" (NJC) >BBC News Online: World: Europe >Tuesday, 4 December, 2001, 19:44 GMT > >Swiss police detain famous conductor >It's emerged that one of the world's most famous conductors was detained >by police in Switzerland on suspicion of being a terrorist threat. >Reports said the French conductor, Pierre Boulez, who's seventy-five was >dragged by police from his hotel bed in the Swiss town of Basle. >They detained him for three hours and temporarily confiscated his >passport. >A BBC correspondent says police were acting on information that Mr >Boulez had once said in the nineteen-sixties that he thought opera >houses should be blown up -- comments which had placed him on a list of >possible terrorist suspects. >The organisers of the music festival the European Month of Music at >which Mr Boulez was conducting have demanded an apology from the >authorities. >>From the newsroom of the BBC World Service >http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/world/europe/newsid_1692000/1692329.stm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:46:43 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: Camping NJC all right, all right, that's just about enough ROSE! seriously, did you call me a wuss? ok, you spelled it woose, but i think that's what you were trying to say. LOL. i've camped in the craziest places, i'm certainly not afraid to camp in the catskills outside of woodstock with a bathroom close by. i spent two weeks on the colorado river through the grand canyon WITHOUT a shower, for chrissakes! so back off! or you'll be wishing i would let you inside my springbar family camper tent, which will be party central, i'm sure. alison e. in slc, who would even share a tent with wally AND bob murphy. ps. i miss you too, rosie! xoxo np: erykah badu - --- rosem_joy wrote: > Well it looks like I'll be camping out this year, > who's joing me, > Jody, Victor? Come on Alison, don't be such a woose. > BTW, Ali, I miss > you terribly. Come back!!!!WWWAAAHHH.......... > We're asking Santa for a BIG fecking tent this year > for Xmas, oh and > cash:) > I won't disclose the rest of my list:) > > Rose in NJ > NP: Hejira Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:52:51 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: Camping NJC how did i end up as the super smoker of this group??? jeezus, that's bad. i don't even smoke those big stinky cigars! although, i will admit that all the mosquito scars on my legs and feet are due to the fact that i was outside goofing off with the other smokers at the church. alison e. in slc, baiting my dutch uncle. np: pj harvey, just to test my memory hi jody! - --- Scott and Jody wrote: > I like your idea about getting a teepee for all the > smoke, especially > if Alison will be joining us. LOL! Hi Al! Victor > agreed to play "Box > of Rain" to lull us to sleep if we promised not to > smoke :~) > jody Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 18:41:09 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Camping NJC I knew that would get her going guys..... so Alison, tell me more about this tent of yours.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 19:31:05 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Fwd: No problem for me... :-) In a message dated 12/7/01 4:00:54 PM, BigWaltinSF writes: << Ashara, So sorry some people are giving you (hopefully) mild grief about having to share space. Sheesh. I know I've got shared space -- doesn't matter whether it's a room or a cottage or what -- and I don't care whether my roommate(s) are male, female, gay/straight/bi/whatever -- as long as they're mammalian. Well, okay, avian is okay, but I hold the line at reptiles. Hang in there, hugs, walt >> Return-path: From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Full-name: BigWaltinSF Message-ID: <104.d872f83.2942b236@aol.com> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 19:00:54 EST Subject: No problem for me... :-) To: AsharaJM@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 147 Ashara, So sorry some people are giving you (hopefully) mild grief about having to share space. Sheesh. I know I've got shared space -- doesn't matter whether it's a room or a cottage or what -- and I don't care whether my roommate(s) are male, female, gay/straight/bi/whatever -- as long as they're mammalian. Well, okay, avian is okay, but I hold the line at reptiles. Hang in there, hugs, walt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 19:51:06 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Erika Luckett (njc) -- keeping on the lyric-writing theme... Yo, Gang, I had the good luck to be at the Bazaar Cafe two nights ago (Wednesday -- it was miserably drizzly, nothing unusual in SF), and saw, besides the wonderful Garrin Benfield, who MCs and sings wonderfully, Catherine Chase and Erika Luckett. Catherine sounds like a young Joan Baez to me and I liked her enough to buy her CD, but !!!Erika Lucket is an amazing find!!! Any of you coffeehouse-cabaret circuit musicians know her? She's amazing! Her lyrics are all good, some funny, many musing, and some searing -- check this out, from "Lulu" on her second album (My Little Crime): Five o'clock in the morning and I don't know where you are. My hand stretches over dampened sheets to find the lengthy ridge of a scar that doesn't fade, a wound that does not heal. The absence of your breathing is like an ocean without waves -- an ocean where the tides have stopped, lost the pulse of an internal clock. That's me without you. That's me without you. That's just the first verse, and the other two are just as devastating (to me, at least). Oh, and her voice! -- I'm going crazy trying to remember the name of a singer (one of the multitude who has been compared to Joni over the years -- so unfair -- no one can be Joni, and I'm often mystified even when I end up liking the artist) who had an album called "Porcelain". I had the album and loved it, but I just cannot remember her name. Anyway, Erika's voice reminds me of this artist's. Smooth, maleable, adjusting perfectly to each lyric... Can you tell I like Erika? If you like intelligent but ?struggling artists, check out her website: I'm musically smitten, and believe me, it doesn't happen every day. warm wishes to everyone, walt ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 01:16:39 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Fwd: Boulez "Detained" (NJC) jan gyn wrote: > >BBC News Online: World: Europe > >Tuesday, 4 December, 2001, 19:44 GMT > > > >Swiss police detain famous conductor what pratts! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 20:13:54 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: elton njc Elton is on live by request. Tough for me because on the other station the Enterprise are battling the borg. Say what you will about the brit but he is some talented person. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 23:22:44 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: bedrooms and politics NJC magsulah, same thing came to my mind here! it looks like we're still bro and sis. the personal is political the personal is political the personal is political the personal is political the personal is political the personal is political repeat after me now. wah - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Mags Enviado el: Viernes, 07 de Diciembre de 2001 10:42 a.m. Para: joni@smoe.org; jlamadoo@fuse.net; courtandspark@earthlink.net Asunto: bedrooms and politics NJC Lama wrote to Mack: <> when I read this, I could not help but be reminded of a phrase that was central to my feminist politics courses at York University, a phrase which made so much sense to me, then and now, a phrase which is woven in to the very fabric of my life, still... "the personal is political" for some people, the aforementioned phrase has moved them to effect change not only in their own life, but in the life of others. Mags np: The Magdalene Laundries Turbulent Indigo - -- And this loving is a drawing close, a tuning in, an opening. Until one perfect moment; but how can it be expressed? A receiving, an enfolding as I cradle you in my arms. Within my heart, within my soul, You are my true love. --Lui Collins - --- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 18:25:16 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: No problem for me... :-) > Well, okay, avian is okay, but I hold the line at reptiles. > Well, Walt, I guess you wouldn't have stayed in the room I was in at Ashara's in '99! ;) Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 23:32:16 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Q's greatest female singers njc well, the solo album was horrible, i agree. but then again, she was being victimized by another producer, phil ramone in this case, who wanted to turn her into some kind of kristy mcnichols [sp?]. i agree that richard created the ''carpenters sound'', but i think that he was also responsible for cheesifying karen's talent. all those stupid tunes and those tv specials with perry como [sp?]!!! there's a duet with ella fitzgerald [ironically, from one of the tv specials] on this japanese release that i've been listening to and it is sooooo clear that she'd outgrown the please mr. postman stuff. richard was a good producer and not a bad pianist, but karen was genius genius genius. only time could have told, though. karen come back! on second thoughts, don't: i've read the monkey's paw. wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de mack watson-bush Enviado el: Viernes, 07 de Diciembre de 2001 06:18 p.m. Para: joni Asunto: Re: Q's greatest female singers njc I don't think Karen would have been Karen without Richard. He really did a lot for her. I, too, would have loved to have heard some more from her. She did an album without Richard and even with that voice, it really was not good. So sad that she had to leave us the way that she did. Mack > > where is karen? not within the top ten? i am listening to a new japanese > release with very rare previously unreleased material and i am surprised > that karen's brother, that un.speakable slave driver, could have prevailed > over karen in that way. you should hear karen doing standards. the quality > of her voice is so rich, so fresh yet so somber. someday she'll be > appreciated for what she was: one of the best singers ever. > karen, why didn't you live, baby, you'd be chubby, all right, and in the > year 2001 that would have been such a non-issue. you'd be alive and singing > the standards and i would have married you. karen karen karen... > wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 18:31:59 -0800 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: Alicia's uninspiring Keys/back after a long break (NJC) On 7 Dec 2001, at 11:34, Michael Yarbrough wrote: > Seriously, I mention the demo/psychographic info not > to rag on them, but just because they're not exactly > who you'd *expect* to go for Alicia, but they love > her. I'm fascinated by the obvious question: why? > > Her rendition of the Donny Hathaway song was pretty > good, and that is one of the things specifically > mentioned by my officemates. In fact, there were a > lot of surprisingly good performances on that show. > It's the first time I've *ever* liked Faith Hill. > > Bob's question and mine is not so much why is Alicia > as popular as the Belly Button Brigade, but why is she > so much more successful than the Erykahs or Jill > Scotts who ply similar trades with much more depth and > unique charisma. I think Alicia's popularity stems from not only the fact that she is very attractive (and thus "marketable") but also that she is the marquis act for Clive Davis' label J Records. After being tossed out of Arista under the guise of being too old (having passed BMG's draconian age limit for members of the executive suite), Clive was intent on proving that he was really sacked for being too successful and thus too powerful. (BTW - Arista has been a shell of its former self since the reigns were given to L.A. Reid.) Clive is arguably one of the most powerful record executives when it comes to media manipulation (probably only second to Tommy Mottola). He has the press in his pocket. (Witness Whitney Houston's embarrassing and public drug abuse descent which even the mainstream media started covering after Clive's departure. Her problem started long before she married Bobby Brown but Clive kept the wolves at bay for years.) And he has pulled out all the stops for Alicia. Success breeds success for new artists and he made sure that her album charted high the first week. She's had all the right magazine covers and television performances. It's been years since an independent label has pulled off something like this. Clive is proving that he can not only have success with immense talents like Whitney & Aretha but also with mediocre talent like Alicia. Alicia's appearance on Oprah undoubtedly helped her with the soccer mom set, although she sounded like she was at a high school talent contest to me - nervous vocal cracks and all. (India Arie was on the same show and did only a little better. Jill Scott, however! Quite simply, she rocked the house.) I thought Alicia's performance of the Donny Hathaway tune was rife with pitch problems and not fitting the genius legacy of the man, let alone the fairly high calibur of performances that evening. (If you want a treat, hear Kenny Lattimore or Donny's daughter Lalah perform it.) If you want the real goods on "new soul" check out the new album from Alicia's label mate Angie Stone. Brenda Finally returning from a long absence driven by work - something quite welcomed given the slow year I was having. You guys sure have been busy lately! I've still got another 700 posts to read to catch up. I'll write more later, particularly answering some of the things addressed to me specifically and to report on seeing Ryan Adams at the Troubadour (smile!) and Shelby Lynne at the House of Blues (high as a kite - her not me!). n.p. - Eagle Eye Cherry - Promises Made (Does anyone else think that this sounds alot like a Cat Steven's tune?) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 23:35:31 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: No problem for me... :-) oh mark, the poor thing is dead, didn't you hear? wallyK, grieving - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Mark or Travis Enviado el: Viernes, 07 de Diciembre de 2001 11:25 p.m. Para: BigWaltinSF@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: No problem for me... :-) > Well, okay, avian is okay, but I hold the line at reptiles. > Well, Walt, I guess you wouldn't have stayed in the room I was in at Ashara's in '99! ;) Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 18:59:50 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Blue lyrics > About the Blue lyrics, I agree with Hell here, I think ``the ink of a pin`` is > literally the tattoo ink (as introduced in the first line) and reinforced by > the crown and anchor image - the tatoo - Blue's tattoo? For years I thought she was singing 'ink on a pen' and talking about writing the song's lyrics down. Then it finally dawned on me that she was talking about tatooing and it was 'ink on a pin'. I don't think I ever saw it as a reference to drugs but I can see how that could be. For me 'crown and anchor me' is a metaphor referring to a ship. She says 'I've been to sea before', like a ship has been to sea. Then she gives Blue the choice to 'crown and anchor me', to anchor her like a ship or bind her to him in some way or to 'let me sail away', to set her free. I never felt that the references to drugs were specific to the lover so much as to the whole scene that Joni & that lover found themselves in. She says 'you gotta keep thinking you can make it through these waves' as if she's telling both Blue and herself that a positive course & outlook are essential for survival in the crazy time & place they're living in. She goes on to say that she's willing to at least check the whole scene out even though she knows that it isn't really the right way for her to go. Maybe Blue doesn't feel the same way as she does about it. Maybe he really believes that 'hell's the hippest way to go'. She ends by referring to her creation as a shell containing 'a sigh, a foggy lullaby, both phrases that are aptly descriptive of this gut-wrenching song. To me, 'Blue' is a confession of love bursting from Joni's very soul and a cry pain for a difficult but exhilarating relationship that she knows cannot last much longer. When she sings 'Blu-u-u-u-ue, I lo-ove yo-ou' it is such a cry of anguish and pain, it just cuts right through me every time I hear it. She's already feeling the pain of loss, knowing that the relationship is hopeless. Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 22:09:09 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Blue lyrics In a message dated 12/7/01 10:01:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: > She's already > feeling the pain of loss, knowing that the relationship is hopeless. > Oh God, you made me cry Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 01:08:02 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: bedrooms and politics NJC mary, the statement goes beyond ''public'' vs. ''private''. whether you choose to disclose some personal condition or not doesn't matter. your choice is still political. you can come out, you can stay in. it is still political. no such thing as bedroom politics, in my view. wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com [mailto:TimandMaryPowers@aol.com] Enviado el: Sabado, 08 de Diciembre de 2001 12:50 a.m. Para: wallykai@fibertel.com.ar; pholden@iprimus.ca; jlamadoo@fuse.net; courtandspark@earthlink.net Asunto: Re: bedrooms and politics NJC OK, so the personal is political BUT that is something that it seems to me must be decided by each person. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 00:02:59 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: the story of 'what's going on' (njc) There is an excerpt from the new book "What's Going On: Marvin Gaye and the Last Days of The Motown Sound" by Ben Edmonds on The Guardian Web site. You'll find it at: <> It tells the fascinating story of the making of "What's Going On." This is a must-read for fans of Marvin Gaye and the song, with lots of great tidbits -- for example, did you know that the songwriter (Renaldo "Obie" Benson) offered the song to Joan Baez? Or that Berry Gordy hated the song and refused to release it? Or that the sudden volume increase in the fade out was done by Gaye as a fuck-you to Gordy (who was also his brother-in-law)? Good reading. Check it out. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 02:17:59 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Erika Luckett (njc) -- keeping on the lyric-writing theme... In a message dated 12/7/01 5:24:17 PM, answering Walt's question who had the album "Porcelain" in the late 80's, SCJoniGuy wrote: << Julia Fordham? >> Yes!!!!! Thank you -- that was driving me crazy! - --Walt ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 09:43:36 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: Subject: Re: Salvation Army Bans Gays [njc] hi weve been having our first "big b(r)other" contest here in south africa - you know the program where the they stick 12 people in a house & hope someone will murder someone for the sake of "good" tv (now *there's* an idea for the ultimate "locked room" murder mysery :-) anyhow - one of the occupants, the only one with any kind of artistic inclination of any kind, who made a habit of getting the female occupants into bed, etc,, (he even played a guitar, and composed some songs - well - kind-of) - one of the more entertaining people on the show - pretty popular with the viewers, and with a pretty good chance of winning the million rand. then the national papers ran a picture of him at a "mother city queer project" party........ he was voted out of that house the very next weekend, with a huge majority,,, really sad,,,, also - i am really concerned about the tendency of people to react to bigotry with laws. does it, or can it, really work?? surely that is really just legalised mind control? wouldnt the best way be to educate people, and change attitudes?? or does forcing people to be together then cause them to start changing their attitudes?? i dont know - i do have a problem with bigotry (im actually getting some flack where i am at the moment - being an english speaking person in a very afrikaans speaking area) but i also have a problem with forcing people to behave a certain way - simply because you can never force them to think, feel, or be that way. or is it acceptable to force people to be together now, knowing it will be a disaster now, but they, or future generations will eventually adapt. i kind of see this happening here since apartheid was abolished, and people started mixing. - a word of explanation on the "mother city queer project". cape town, where i used to live, is fast becoming one of the worlds premier gay holiday destinations. this is due to the very liberal attitudes to gays, (most people wont even take a second look at gay couples in the streets) and numbers of gay bars, clubs, etc there. the mayor and tourism board are fully behind this - money has no sexual preference. now the locals are fast catching on that the best entertainment is in these gay clubs, and are flocking to them. once a year, around christmas time, the "mother city queer project" - a gay organisation which co ordinates tourist publicity, information, aids counselling, etc holds a party at one the the best clubs there. these parties are legendary in cape town, and attract crowds of thousands (around 15,000 if i remember correctly), including a number of overseas vistors who fly in especially for the party. again - people have realised that, gay or straight, you wont find a better party anyway in the country. ron ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #581 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?