From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #577 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, December 6 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 577 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Who is Betsy...? [Nuriel Tobias ] Rolling Stone George Harrison Tribute njc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Who is Betsy...? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Who is Betsy...? [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Salvation Army Bans Gays [long and njc] ["Kakki" ] Re: Who is Betsy...? [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Some Guitar Advice (NJC) [Randy Remote ] Re: Who is Betsy...? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Advice to mack, njc ["Kakki" ] Re: Who is Betsy...? [RoseMJoy@aol.com] advice to mack njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Betsy's blue [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: PJ..PU! NJC [Michael Yarbrough ] RE: Betsy's blue ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: "covering" (NJC) [FredNow@aol.com] RE: Joni's orchestral sessions [Alison E ] Joni impersonater playing in New York! [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: A turbulence of indigos! njc [Les Irvin ] Re: RV: Salvation Army Bans Gays [long and njc] [colin ] Re: Some Guitar Advice (NJC) [Michael Paz ] RE: Jonifest 2001 VIDEO TAPES!!!!!!!!!!!! ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: "covering" (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: Joni impersonater playing in New York! [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Joni impersonater playing in New York! [Relayer211@aol.com] Joni in Seventeen [MGVal@aol.com] Subject: NJC RE: Kate's advice on viruses ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Who is Betsy...? [Michael Paz ] Re: "covering" (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: Joni impersonater playing in New York! [Michael Paz ] Advice to mack, njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Subject: RV: Salvation Army Bans Gays [long and njc] ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: "covering" (NJC) ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Re: NJC Jonifest 2001 music [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Advice to mack, njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Advice to mack, njc ["Kakki" ] almost famous njc ["Kate Bennett" ] elton john njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: "covering" (NJC) [FredNow@aol.com] what a bunch ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Salvation Army Bans Gays njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: elton john njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Joni in London [Rick and Susan ] Re: almost famous njc ["gene mock" ] Re: elton john njc ["gene mock" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:04:08 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Who is Betsy...? Hello dear people, Who is Betsy...? "Betsy's blue She says "Tell me something good!" (MATW) "Mama and Betsy say "Find yourself a charity" (SFS) Nuri _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:08:55 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Rolling Stone George Harrison Tribute njc there are some good articles here: George Harrison Tribute: 1943-2001 "The first time I met George Harrison, he appeared behind me as if he were a ghost . . ." http://www.rollingstone.com/features/featuregen.asp?afl=mail1&pid=184 Inside the Beatles Hit Factory Inside the Hit Factory: The Stories Behind the Making of 27 Number One Songs http://www.rollingstone.com/features/beatles/default.asp?afl=mail1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 16:10:19 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Who is Betsy...? Peter Asher's wife...Peter was Joni's manager for a time. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:10:43 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Who is Betsy...? In a message dated 12/5/01 4:06:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, nuriel@wowmail.com writes: > Who is Betsy...? > Nuriel, She is a childhood friend of Joni's ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:11:47 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Salvation Army Bans Gays [long and njc] It seems that there is a conflict of laws going on here. I was researching this along related lines to obtain information for Mack the other night. 13 of the states, including California, prohibit discrimination based upon sexual orientation. The Federal law, however, regarding discrimination does not yet address this. However, the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity (EEOC) does prohibit such discrimination in entities which receive federal funding. A case could be made, for example, that Salvation Army offices located in states such as California would be in violation of state law if they discriminate on this basis. It sounds like they would also be in violation of the EEOC prohibition because they receive federal funding. A review of the laws is in order here. I'm of two minds as to federal assistance to religious-based charities - on one hand it seems draconian to cut them off because they do have a long record of good works. On the other hand, by giving them federal funding, you get into to these separation of church and state messes. My simplistic reaction has always been that the state should stay out of the church and the church should stay out of the state, but reality is not that simple. From reading the Wash. Post article which was linked, former laws such as the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the 1996 Welfare Reform Act have set the precedent for the current rights of the religious organizations. There should be more of a movement to amend the existing Federal law to get in line with the states which have prohibited this discrimination. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:27:40 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: lyric writing Anne, I think this is a fantastic idea! With a number of the group who are songwriters and have participated in workshops, perhaps a group song or two could also be worked up. (Although now I am having visions of the crack parody composers sharpening up their pencils, too ;-) But it might be really cool to collectively create a few new tunes at the Fest. Kakki > Anyway, so I'm going to be at Northeast JoniFest 2002 and I've indicated in the form that I'd like to conduct a workshop >on lyric writing. This is really preliminary (obviously, nothing will be decided about what workshops will happen, who will >conduct them, etc... for a while.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:35:15 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Who is Betsy...? So is Rose's Betsy (The childhood friend) and Bob's Betsy (Asher's wife) the same woman? I'm asking cause i'm always confused when it comes to names in Joni's lyrics. "Who cares what I meant? What does it mean to you?" - Joni Mitchell (We all know this line from the lyrics page in JMDL.com) - just don't work in this cases. I mean unless you know someone who is Betsy or Carol, names are not a metaphore. I mean, there ARE many names that have a meaning and/or represent a cultural meaning, an image, a myth, a hero etc'...but most of the names in Joni's lyrics are people she knew and her choice to include their names in her songs is very often strange and leaves me wondering. In that sense, i think it's those names in her songs, that make the songs something that belongs to her and her alone, don't you think? Nuri _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 13:50:34 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Some Guitar Advice (NJC) If it is an Adamas, and the action is good, and it's in good shape, it's probably worth that much. Check ebay for comparisons. Does it look like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1491905967#DESC I've never been much into Ovations because of the plastic and, like Victor said, they tend to slide off your knee... They sound a bit different than wooden guitars. Then again, John McLaughlin, Paul McCartney, Nancy Wilson and others seem to like them! RR Ron Greer wrote: > help!! > > i need some advice!! i ahve been offered a very good cond, ovation guitar - the fancy one with the little round sound holes on the top, not under the strings (is it an adamas?) for R5,000 - which is US$ 500.00. > > it is in very good condition, with the original hard case, no scratches etc, all the electrics work fine, & the neck looks straight to me. > > im just not sure about the value - is us$500 a reasonable price?? & what is the general opinion on these guitars?? i would really appreciate some advice!! > > thanks > > ron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 16:51:53 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Who is Betsy...? <> I'm not sure, Nuriel...I'm copying JMDL'er Tony King on your question because Betsy is a friend of his. When you need an answer, go to the source, right? :~) <> I think that's a valid point, especially in the case of a song like "Song For Sharon" which is so blatantly autobiographical and personal. Even though some of the lines are feelings we can relate to, there is a strong sense of the song "belonging" to her. Bob NP: Tracy Chapman, "Behind The Wall" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:46:27 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Advice to mack, njc This is a really good point, Lama. I've had to do criminal record searches in some of my cases and it is VERY expensive and time-consuming, especially if one wants to go back several years. Most databases out there only go back a few years and if you want to look further it often involves long, archival court searches. I would also guess that they either won't find this or, it may have been automatically expunged, as is sometimes done with minor juvenile infractions. At any rate, if this is used against Mack, I think he has a excellent chance of winning any fight against them. Kakki > I meant to respond to your question the other day but got sidetracked. > Anyway, I'll bet they're asking about a criminal record going back up to 3 > years. I doubt that they'll pay for a backgound check going back further on > every single employee. (Was it in another state? If so, I really, really > doubt they'd check all states, going back more than 3 years!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 17:12:02 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Who is Betsy...? In a message dated 12/5/01 4:53:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > I'm not sure, Nuriel...I'm copying JMDL'er Tony King on your question > because Betsy is a friend of his. When you need an answer, go to the > source, right? :~) > > It Could be. I thought there was a betsy in one the photographs that was in the little museum in the town Joni grew up in... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 19:18:19 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: advice to mack njc oh please mack, do what jim says! it is such good advice! i will be standing by you. wally ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:22:09 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Betsy's blue SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: "I'm copying JMDL'er Tony King on your question because Betsy is a friend of his. When you need an answer, go to the source, right? :~) Oh that's so nice of you, Bob. Poor Betsy. Imagine having your name in a Joni song and knowing it's YOU and no other Betsy in the world. Brrrr. And she's in 2! Poor poor woman...:) Ah btw, i'm listening to a live version of Moon at the Window (Joni and the acoustic guitar and it seems like it's been recorded in a small place) - do you know where it's from? (Again, i found it in the Audiogalaxy so friends who haven't heard it before - check it out, it's lovely) Nuri _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:51:58 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: Re: PJ..PU! NJC Bob asked: > How does [To Bring You...] compare to "Stories..."? Much less of a conventional rock-n-roll album. It's very moody--lots of organ, etc. Her vocals do get a bit ragged in places (in a good way IMO), but the setting is much more stagey and dramatic (and, i guess, melodramatic) than on _rid of me_, for example. The _Stories_ tracks that would most fit here would be "The Mess We're In" and "Kamikaze" IMO--and the differences between these two tracks sort of point to the dominant forces underlying _Bring_. Think of it as a dispatch from the Howlin' Wolf Cabaret. :-) > BUT many of the same critics also > dig Liz Phair, I'm *not* getting into the Liz fight with you again. ;-) But, in any case, I do think PJ has ten times the talent of Liz, and I think quite highly of Liz. I'll start my own flame war--while I don't think anyone is this generation's Bob Dylan, if anyone is, it's PJ. And she's definitely this generation's Patti Smith. Hell, she's already put out as many great albums as Patti has. - --Michael NP: Erykah Badu, _Baduizm_ ===== ____________________________________________________ "I'm just a little bit heiress, a little bit Irish, A little bit Tower of Pisa whenever I see ya, So please be kind if I'm a mess." - --Rufus Wainwright, "Cigarettes and Chocolate Milk" Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 19:53:17 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Betsy's blue oh nuri, sour grapes, eh? what would you give to hear joni sing ''nuriel says have children!''? wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Nuriel Tobias Enviado el: Miircoles, 05 de Diciembre de 2001 07:22 p.m. Para: Joni@smoe.org Asunto: Betsy's blue Poor Betsy. Imagine having your name in a Joni song and knowing it's YOU and no other Betsy in the world. Brrrr. And she's in 2! Poor poor woman...:) Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 18:17:42 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: "covering" (NJC) "Kate Bennett" wrote: >Paz, you & Paul Mc... who started writing Yesterday with only the words >ham&eggs Actually, it was literally "scrambled eggs." I think Paz was referring to that bit of trivia. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:53:26 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: RE: Joni's orchestral sessions - --- Johnson Victor wrote: > > Who thinks we can convince Joni to throw in some > Nyro covers? > > > Actually, I was kind of hoping she'd do some old > Black Sabbath, > maybe Children of the Grave or Sweet Leaf... > > Victor that's my boy! one of my best friends is in a bluegrass band that does "unique" covers...a little ozzy, a little pink floyd, a little ACDC, there ain't nothing better. seriously, there's just about nothing more fun to dance to. which brings me to my second reason for posting.. "CANT SEPARATE A MAN AND HIS JONI TAPES! JONI MITCHELL TAPES!" "in his chevy he did perish to a free man in paris" man, for those of you who haven't heard the SNFU song "joni mitchell tapes", do it now. i was actually a fan of SNFU in my postpunk days, saw them live many times. this was a real treat. i've been meaning to download it for some time. finally did, and thank god. alison e. in slc np: SNFU Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 18:53:19 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Joni impersonater playing in New York! I just read in "Timeout New York" magazine that a male singer impersonating Joni will be singing her songs at a Manhattan club called "The Fez" every saturday night through Jan.12th.I think I'll take a look this saturday! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 17:03:07 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: A turbulence of indigos! njc At 12/5/2001 01:15 PM, BigWaltinSF@aol.com wrote: >I tried the lyric search engine at jmdl that SCBob and Rose pointed me to, >and it worked fine -- except when I tried "indigo" -- at which point it >listed *all* of the songs on TI, plus one song (Moon at the Mirror, I think) >that wasn't on any album, but *did* have "indigo" in it. I don't know whom >to notify about this glitch, so I thought I'd report it here. Yes Walt... you've illuminated one of the caveats of the search engine. Since each page of lyrics also includes the name of the album the song is from, the search engine picks that up as well. Thus, searching for a word that is in an album title will bring up every song on that album. Guess I need to fix that... :-) Les ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 00:31:19 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: RV: Salvation Army Bans Gays [long and njc] Wally Kairuz wrote: > i got this from [former?] jmdl member howard motyl. more outrage, but this > time the boycott is really fun. > wallyK > I really cannot undertsand why anyone, especially PFLAG are surprised at this. What religious organizatuion can you think of that does not hate us? I cannot for the life of me undertsand why any gay person needs an organized religion in order to have faith. And whiltst I get the point about the discrimaintaion in the job feild, what the hell is a gay person doing working for an organization that spreads this anti gay hate message? Would a perosn of colir work for the KKK? A jewish person work for KKK or some other Nazi organization? Myabe the campaign should be to get all gay people who work for the SA other jobs! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 18:37:30 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: NJC Jonifest 2001 music Oh Ok. Did you also get the new Sex Kills put in the proper place as opposed to the disc five location?? It really should'nt be their twice, the second one is supposedly a different version do you hear any difference at all between the two? Paz NP-Forthcoming Leslie Smith release. This woman is the bomb! Check her out at www.onlyleslie.com . Her album Paper Moon is really good and quite different that her earlier stuff. on 12/4/01 7:57 PM, SCJoniGuy@aol.com at SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: How the feck did I miss the artwork for the CD's. And I can't believe they are already being distributed seeing how I am waiting for world from Ashara on the final cut.???? Huh???? Steve WHERE is the artwork?? Easy, Michael...I have the CD's and Steve sent me the art. I got the instructions about cutting Linger & adding the track markers for Wally's set (which I enjoy more each time I hear it, Wallista!), and I'm off to the races. Probably jumped the gun, but hey, no point in fecking off! Besides, how can I say "no" to my Jimmy! ;~) Bob NP: Randy Newman, "Baltimore" (live) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 18:42:38 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Some Guitar Advice (NJC) Personally I have trouble playing the Ovations because of an opposing round belly problem. Which is why i love my Parker. It has an indentation for my round belly that fits perfectly. I think $500 may be a little high cost wise for a used one. I believe the Adamas version of their guitars is the entry level ones. Bottom line is if it feels good and sounds good and you like it for the money and don't have access to getting what you want (wherever you live??? what are R5,000???), then go for it and happy music making. Paz on 12/4/01 10:38 PM, Ron Greer at GreerR@rav.co.za wrote: > help!! > > > > i need some advice!! i ahve been offered a very good cond, ovation guitar - > the fancy one with the little round sound holes on the top, not under the > strings (is it an adamas?) for R5,000 - which is US$ 500.00. > > it is in very good condition, with the original hard case, no scratches etc, > all the electrics work fine, & the neck looks straight to me. > > im just not sure about the value - is us$500 a reasonable price?? & what is > the general opinion on these guitars?? i would really appreciate some advice!! > > > > thanks > > > > > ron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:38:39 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Jonifest 2001 VIDEO TAPES!!!!!!!!!!!! cool...what does NTSC & PAl mean? is the party stuff only on the comp tape? >>Go here to see what is on each tape and order form with prices: http://www.jmdl.com/jonifest/2001tapes.cfm<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 00:46:59 +0000 From: colin Subject: humble pie NJC well despite deep reservations and my anti drug stance, which i have made more than clear, I have been taking meds for the last 10 days. I needed lots of coaxing and assurances it wouldn't send me mad or kill me before I even took the 1st dose. My hand literally shook as I took the fist 20mg. I am building to 400 mg daily and am so far up to 200. Nothing untoward has happened and the only side effect is my appetite has diminished, which for a fat git, is good! I did an excellent job of healing myself and learning how to control the swings but really it got so tiring, exhausting really. I decide after all this time of working on me I desevred to be much better. Flying hugh is fun but wading thru treacle is not fun. Maybe it is my 'neurotransmitters' and beyond my control, maybe I was born with it, maybe not. whatever, I just had to get over my feelings of shame and admit defeat. It'll take a year before I know if it works. Right now, I am sleeping the best I have for years and am alert and capable and not fraught and worried and white kncukling during the day. AND it has had other effects. I nearly got arrested this evening. No fear. No anger. Cool as cucumber I stayed. The story is long but invloved a woman, false accusations(guess!), ne being let go and her being told off. I didn't even shake afterwards! Thought it rather funny. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 18:51:59 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: "covering" (NJC) Gosh Kate Thanks so much. I guess I can be too self critical at times and to me it doesn't sound exactly like she does, but I think it may be the channeling from how the songs make me feel. I think the one I FEEL the most is Song For Sharon cause there are so many things about that song that remind me of my own life. Let's do Amelia together next year???? Love Paz on 12/5/01 10:48 AM, Kate Bennett at kate@katebennett.com wrote: > > I have always loved hearing Paz play Joni songs...Paz you nail every little > detail & it is amazing to hear how you are able to do that. Her stuff is NOT > easy to do straight up imho, it is easier to interpret your own way. She has > her own inner rhythm that is really hard to nail down. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 19:51:17 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni impersonater playing in New York! yes,his name is John Kelly. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 19:51:15 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni impersonater playing in New York! yes,his name is John Kelly. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 20:14:46 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Joni in Seventeen Taking a break from things, I noticed a bona fide Joni mention in the January 2002 issue of Seventeen magazine. (and I'm not even going to get into my son's supposedly witty comment: "Gee Mom, why don't you start up a magazine called "Forty Three."). Anyhow.... They had a small list of Girl Rock from A to Z. Joni is listed as Mitchell, Joni, (unlike my CD collection which has her listed under the J's unlike the Springsteen CDs which are under the S's), with the comment: "You're not a chick-rock connosseur 'til you own her 1971 classic "Blue." So there you go. She's out there for another generation. Signing off MG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 17:17:18 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: NJC RE: Kate's advice on viruses Thanks Chuck for the added info. I only meant this advice as an addition to having virus protection. No one should be without virus protection!!!!! Unless you have a Mac. Over the last few days I have been hit with several warnings each day for viruses coming in...the badtrans is one that you can get without even opening an attachment which is why protection is vital! I have my live updates on automatic...everytime I connect to the internet I get another update if needed. Otherwise if you forget to update, in just one day you could be hit with a new virus (ala the goner one that got hatched yesterday) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 19:23:03 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Some Guitar Advice (NJC) cause they are FREE to them. I remember a story about McCartney coming into a store I worked at called Sound City. When he was recording Venus and Mars at my friend Allen Toussaint's studio he went to the store to pick out an acoustic lefty to use on the record. Paul insisted that they send the guitar over right away and Ovation would take care of it cause they gave them to him free. The boss man refused and told Paul that if he wanted that one he would have to pay for it before it left the store. Paul left in a huff and awhile later Ovation called up the boss man and asked if he was fecking crazy did he KNOW who Paul was??? LOL He said yes he knew, but he wasn't impressed and seeing how they (the store) had already paid for the guitar Ovation should butt out. To make a long story short they ended up wire transfering the money (FULL LIST PRICE NO DISCOUNT) to the store before it was delivered. In a related story, Linda wanted a Fender rhodes for the session and went and tried it out at the store, but insisted they send one over brand new in the box. The boss man was in the parking lot (with Allen and Paul) of the studio when the one that was on the floor was delivered and they got all pissed off cause it was not a new one in the box. He expalined that the new ones had to be set up and tuned and very often worked in before they were playable, but she insisted on the new one. The guys left the one they brought first in the parking lot and hurried back to get the NEW one. When they got back they opened up the new one and set it up and she played it and then played the other one and then went back to the first and finally admitted that he was right and that she would take the first one. After she had gone into the studio the boss man said, "who WAS that bitch!". Paul got a little (not much) preturbed and answered, "That was me wife!". The boss man never missed a beat and stubbed out his cigar in the oyster shell covered parking lot and said, "You got a real problem there son!". Paul laughed his ass off as well as everyone else that was there even though it was probably one of the most embarrassing moments in rock history. Legend has it that McCartney sent him Christmas cards after that episode (I never saw them if he did). Paz (still snickering) on 12/5/01 1:50 PM, Randy Remote at guitarzan@saber.net wrote: > They sound a bit different than wooden guitars. > Then again, John McLaughlin, Paul McCartney, Nancy Wilson and > others seem to like them! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 19:23:42 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Who is Betsy...? Are you quite sure it wasn't Betsy Ross???? on 12/5/01 2:12 PM, RoseMJoy@aol.com at RoseMJoy@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/5/01 4:53:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, > SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > > >> I'm not sure, Nuriel...I'm copying JMDL'er Tony King on your question >> because Betsy is a friend of his. When you need an answer, go to the >> source, right? :~) >> >> > > It Could be. I thought there was a betsy in one the photographs that was in > the little museum in the town Joni grew up in... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 19:24:29 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: "covering" (NJC) true indeed! on 12/5/01 3:17 PM, FredNow@aol.com at FredNow@aol.com wrote: > "Kate Bennett" wrote: > >> Paz, you & Paul Mc... who started writing Yesterday with only the words >> ham&eggs > > Actually, it was literally "scrambled eggs." I think Paz was referring to > that bit of trivia. > > -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 19:26:01 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Joni impersonater playing in New York! Say hi to my VG-8 while you are there and give John Kelly a big kiss for me (it's ok he will be in full Joni drag). And you will LOVE his show. I am gonna make it up there after the new year come hell or high water. Paz on 12/5/01 3:53 PM, Relayer211@aol.com at Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > I just read in "Timeout New York" magazine that a male singer impersonating > Joni will be singing her songs at a Manhattan club called "The Fez" every > saturday night through Jan.12th.I think I'll take a look this saturday! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 17:27:35 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: lyric writing Very cool analysis of Blue Anne! I love love love love this idea of a workshop Anne! I have gotten tremendous value from songwriting workshops (formal & informal ones) through the years... Count me in! >>>Anyway, so I'm going to be at Northeast JoniFest 2002 and I've indicated in the form that I'd like to conduct a workshop on lyric writing. This is really preliminary (obviously, nothing will be decided about what workshops will happen, who will conduct them, etc... for a while.) I'd love to hear other JMDLers' song ideas, especially works in progress. lots of love Anne<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 17:47:45 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Advice to mack, njc What grounded advice Lama! I agree with Lama...do the white lie....pretend you forgot all about it cuz what you did was not a criminal act...what the officer did to you was criminal. Also, there must be some sort of Gay & Lesbian Resource Center somewhere in your area to get advice from or talk to a lawyer...maybe through a a college? This sort of thing just can't be legal can it? Where's Sharon the beekeeperlawyervampireslayer? >>>(I can't believe I'm suggesting this but....) So I suggest telling a "white lie" and say you have a clean record. I don't see that you have a good alternative, if you don't want to come out to them in Central Texas.<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 17:57:52 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: RV: Salvation Army Bans Gays [long and njc] Thanks Wally, I have downloaded the coupons & have them ready in my purse for guerilla shopping! ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 21:05:43 EST From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Re: Jonifest 2001 VIDEO TAPES!!!!!!!!!!!! Kate wrote: <> NTSC is the format that is used in the US, Canada, Japan, and other regions. PAL is the format used in Europe, the UK, New Zealand, and many other regions. The reason the PAL tapes are a bit more, is because the place I sending them out to be dubbed is charging that difference to me. <> Yes. Friday night's footage is only on the edited compilation tape. (Which, IMHO, is AWESOME!!!!!!!) The performance tapes are completely raw, unedited footage. Rich really did a great job, and it is so cool to have Jonifest available on tape! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 18:58:46 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Advice to mack, njc It depends on the specific circumstances. The lawyers on the list would know more about this. I don't know all the details of Mack's situation, but I've worked on a few employment cases and honesty is the best policy if he wants to bring an action against them later. If they can show he lied in one way or another it may dilute his case - I've seen defendants lose on unfair termination and discrimination actions when the other side can prove they lied - it plays into employers' rights. Bottom line, though, I think Mack is going to be just fine and they would be very foolish to mess with him! And if they do, I hope he gets a big fat settlement! ;-) Kakki > What grounded advice Lama! I agree with Lama...do the white lie....pretend > you forgot all about it cuz what you did was not a criminal act...what the > officer did to you was criminal. Also, there must be some sort of Gay & > Lesbian Resource Center somewhere in your area to get advice from or talk to > a lawyer...maybe through a a college? This sort of thing just can't be > legal can it? Where's Sharon the beekeeperlawyervampireslayer? > > >>>(I can't believe I'm suggesting this but....) So I suggest telling a > "white lie" and say you have a clean record. I don't see that you have a good > alternative, if you don't want to come out to them in Central Texas.<<< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 22:24:29 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: "covering" (NJC) "Scrambled egg", dear. Ham and eggs was Theodore Geisel. :) >>Paz, you & Paul Mc... who started writing Yesterday with only the words ham&eggs...lol..better stay with this one! Bravely climbing back up on the (Beatles trivia) horse that threw him, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 22:45:39 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Jonifest 2001 music <> Yes, Michael, If you'll recall it was I who pointed out the double occurence of SK. It was good, but once on the set is plenty! :~) I assumed they were the same track, so I haven't listened closely enough to tell. Bob NP: REM, "All the Way to Reno" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 19:48:14 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Advice to mack, njc listen to kakki, not me, mack...she knows the law much better than i do...i am truly coming from an emotional point of view cuz it is just so wrong that you have to deal with this s@#$ at all. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 19:51:16 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Advice to mack, njc That's O.K. Kate - my first thought was to tell him to fib about it, too! But then I started thinking long-view for a possible legal action. It makes me so angry that he has to be concerned about this. Kakki > listen to kakki, not me, mack...she knows the law much better than i do...i am truly coming from an emotional point of view cuz it is just so wrong that you have to deal with this s@#$ at all. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 20:31:43 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: almost famous njc watched it last night...they used the word feck!...is that how this whole fecking thing got started? ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 20:36:27 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: elton john njc i read somewhere that he's had it with the recording industry...that this is his last album (he's done 40 of them !) i hear good things about his new one...that its like his early stuff...i loved his early stuff...he lost me several times in the past 2 decades but he may win me back...has anyone heard his new one? he credited ryan adams with major inspiration for this new, last? album...not ryan's gold...something earlier ryan... sometimes when i listen to elton speak i think of colin & imagine that colin looks kind of like elton...colin, i hope this isn't a bad thing... i think elton is cute now that he is acting more down to earth... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 23:38:47 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: "covering" (NJC) In a message dated 12/4/01 3:17:26 AM, M.Russell@iaea.org writes: >Something that really bugs me here is all the comparison that goes on. >This artist is better than that one, that artist is trying to be like so and >so, and on and on ... Rickie Lee Jones has >a solid base of people who think she is the best musician who ever walked >the face of the earth, just as most people here feel that way about Joni, and >other people I know feel that way about Natalie Merchant, Jewel, Brittany >Spears, Madonna, Bob Dylan, etc. I've said this before, and it bears repeating now. It's very important to always keep in mind that there is personal taste, and there is critical assessment, and these are two quite independant judgements. Personal taste is completely subjective, and something with which you just can't (and shouldn't) argue, but critical evaluation has objective components, such as standards of quality based on a thorough working knowledge of the topic, and a broader consensus tempered by historical perspective. To illustrate crudely, if someone says that Kenny G is their favorite jazz saxophonist, well ... that's their taste (and their problem, as far as we may be concerned). But if that person wants to extrapolate from their own taste and claim that Kenny G is a higher quality saxophonist than, say Wayne Shorter, that's pretty much wrong, plain and simple. Yeah, I know everyone's entitled to hold their own opinion, but that's all they're entitled to ... holding it. Just because one may hold opinion "A" doesn't necessarily mean that it has as much inherent validity as opinion "B." In other words, it's essential to not confuse one's own taste with critical appraisal, especially when the two don't intersect. That may seem harsh, but that's how excellence is determined. I mean, really ... from as objective a viewpoint as is possible for imperfect, subjective humans to have ... is Madonna as good a songwriter as Joni Mitchell? Does her body of work demonstrate the same level of craft and inspiration in the manipulation of the materials? If Madonna's music means more to you (not *you,* but "you") personally than Joni's, if she grooves you more, speaks more directly to your inner life, then fine ... no one can argue. But if everyone's work is equally valid, if there is no attempt at objective examination, then what's excellence? - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 22:38:24 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: what a bunch I still don't know what I am going to do. The new owner doesn't take over until the 1st so I have this time to try to figure something out. I am writing this post to tell you all that you are really special people. I have a tendency to be a pessimist and living around here I often lose faith in humankind in general. You have given it back to me. I love you all. You have given me strength and knowing that I am not alone means very much to me. Thanks doesn't even begin to cover the gratitude I have to you, each one of you. I love you. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 23:12:56 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Salvation Army Bans Gays njc I always get really irritated at them asking for my money when I don't have any, though have felt guilty about it. I have never given them anything because I was afraid it was not reputable. Instead give it to an orphanage where my mom used to take me when I was little, with a church group. Now I am glad I never gave them anything. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 23:16:11 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: humble pie NJC I hope it is a positive thing for you Colin. Mack > well despite deep reservations and my anti drug stance, which i have > made more than clear, I have been taking meds for the last 10 days. > I needed lots of coaxing and assurances it wouldn't send me mad or kill > me before I even took the 1st dose. My hand literally shook as I took > the fist 20mg. I am building to 400 mg daily and am so far up to 200. > Nothing untoward has happened and the only side effect is my appetite > has diminished, which for a fat git, is good! > I did an excellent job of healing myself and learning how to control the > swings but really it got so tiring, exhausting really. I decide after > all this time of working on me I desevred to be much better. Flying hugh > is fun but wading thru treacle is not fun. Maybe it is my > 'neurotransmitters' and beyond my control, maybe I was born with it, > maybe not. whatever, I just had to get over my feelings of shame and > admit defeat. It'll take a year before I know if it works. Right now, I > am sleeping the best I have for years and am alert and capable and not > fraught and worried and white kncukling during the day. > AND it has had other effects. I nearly got arrested this evening. No > fear. No anger. Cool as cucumber I stayed. The story is long but > invloved a woman, false accusations(guess!), ne being let go and her > being told off. I didn't even shake afterwards! Thought it rather funny. > > -- > bw > colin > DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, > Passap 6000, Duo80. > > colin@tantra-apso.com > http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 23:24:40 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: elton john njc It does seem that Elton has went from genius (Your Song) to very great (the 70's) to average and bad to worse. Every once in while though, even on those bad albums, some great Elton will show up. Since I don't have much hair left myself, on my head, I have noticed his hairpiece. When he first got it, it looked great, now it looks kind of silly. Still like him though because he had the strength to stand up and tell the truth. A lesson for me, I suppose. Then again if I had that kind of money I wouldn't be near as upset as I am. haha. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 21:32:25 -0800 From: Rick and Susan Subject: Joni in London > From: LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk > Here is a URL for Air Studios where the recent Joni recordings are taking > place......it's quite a place. > >> http://www.airstudios.com/tour/index.shtml Great site, Les. Thanks. I have it on good authority that the engineer for Joni's sessions was Geoff Foster, AIR's Chief Sound Engineer, whose bio can be found by clicking on his name on this page: http://www.airstudios.com/engineers/engineers.shtml A tech note: Joni's sessions were the very last ones ever recorded on the Neve VRP Legend console that has been used in the Main Hall control room for the last ten years. Ranger Rick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 22:11:21 -0800 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: almost famous njc hello kate, i'm still having good vibes watching "almost famous" over the weekend. do you happen to know why joni's river is in the movie but not the official soundtrack and who was doing the instrumental songs in the movie soundtrack. happy holidays and still grinning from the movie-------gene p.s. back in those days we actually said fecking when we meant the other. it was socially acceptable. later - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" To: "Joni@Smoe. Org" Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 8:31 PM Subject: almost famous njc > watched it last night...they used the word feck!...is that how this whole > fecking thing got started? > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett > www.katebennett.com > sponsored by Polysonics > Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: > http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html > ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 22:13:22 -0800 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: elton john njc hello again, wonder what took him so long to see where the music industry has gone. i guess after being knighted "sir" and making a few millions you can change your mind. take care gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" To: "Joni@Smoe. Org" Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 8:36 PM Subject: elton john njc > i read somewhere that he's had it with the recording industry...that this is > his last album (he's done 40 of them !) i hear good things about his new > one...that its like his early stuff...i loved his early stuff...he lost me > several times in the past 2 decades but he may win me back...has anyone > heard his new one? > > he credited ryan adams with major inspiration for this new, last? > album...not ryan's gold...something earlier ryan... > > sometimes when i listen to elton speak i think of colin & imagine that colin > looks kind of like elton...colin, i hope this isn't a bad thing... i think > elton is cute now that he is acting more down to earth... > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett > www.katebennett.com > sponsored by Polysonics > Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: > http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html > ******************************************** ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #577 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?