From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #557 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, November 20 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 557 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- did you ever see Close Encounters? was "More Star Studded news (NJC)" ["J] Man of Heart & Mind :-) [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] The ContenderNJC [colin ] Re: Speaking of Afghanistan...(njc) ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] judgement of the moon and stars ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: The Return of Singer/Songwriters NJC [colin ] Re: judgement of the moon and stars ["Victor Johnson" ] A Case ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: judgement of the moon and stars ["mack watson-bush" ] mary blige njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: The Return of Singer/Songwriters NJC ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: The Return of Singer/Songwriters NJC [colin ] Nana Mouskouri (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Man of Heart & Mind :-) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Man of Heart & Mind :-) [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] 44 seconds of prime Joni cover free! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Man of Heart & Mind :-) [Gary Zack ] Fwd: Man of Heart & Mind :-) [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Re: Man of Heart & Mind :-) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] A Handkerchief World NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] (Wo)man of Heart and Mind... (less and less jc -- so njc) [BigWaltinSF@ao] RE: Man of Heart & Mind njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] At very long last -- the SFBayArea jdmlers get-together on 11/7 (njc) [Bi] Dingo of Heart & Mind njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: Dingo of Heart & Mind njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Dingo of Heart & Mind njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: Dingo of Heart & Mind njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: visits? njc ["Kakki" ] Re: Man of Heart & Mind :-) ["Kakki" ] RE: visits? njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 20:01:33 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: did you ever see Close Encounters? was "More Star Studded news (NJC)" Michael Paz meets Stephen Stills: "Have you recently had a close encounter? A close encounter with something very unusual?" Congratulations on your latest close encounter. You must know that I live vicariously through this type of posts. Thanks, bud. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 20:22:52 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Man of Heart & Mind :-) Hi, all, Bob Wrote: (at the tail end of a list of men who have done "River") <> Know you were kidding, but long ago, when I used to play (piano) and sing for myself and for anyone unlucky enough to be nearby, I reworked the lyrics for this song to fit a man. Of course, even less change is necessary if the song is sung from the point of view of a gay man singing to another man. But really: Has any man ever covered the song? It's soooo beautiful. Just curious, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 01:27:02 +0000 From: colin Subject: The ContenderNJC I just saw this film and thoroughly enjoyed it. I ceertainly could not have stuck to my principles if I was in the same position as the female vice presidential nominee. Even tho i believe she did the right thing. I just know I would not be able to saty silent when i knew I was innocent. I wonder what the femal listers, if they saw this film, thought of it and it's message? - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 20:26:42 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Speaking of Afghanistan...(njc) Maybe Bob Murphy has an Afgani-themed satire up his sleeve. A Trojan Joni. :) "Abdul, you're an oppressive wife-beater but I like you." Lamadoo Kakki said, <> Bob Muller said: >>> I'm game, but as soon as they hear those songs, they'll want to sing them and record them, and then we'll have all those Afghani Joni covers to deal with! :~D ps, Thanks for the Laura Nyro thread. I bought her "Smile" yesterday, my first. (used LP, perfect shape, 8 US dollars. Gotta love it.) The record store in Louisville had zero Dolly Parton (though tons of "Alabama"), no Bobby Dylan (though plenty of picture sleeves of the Rolling Stones) and zero Joni Mitchell (though multiple copies of Doobie Brothers.) Why would someone collect picture sleeves of the Stones? ("Oh, I gots to see Mick's LATEST picture." ?) JL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:26:34 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: visits? njc Have read with interest the postings concerning celebrity sightings and visits. Must be very nice. Would not mind spending an evening with Joni and though never liked CSN much, or Neil Young, for that matter (at least their music) I would not be averse to a visit with Stephen either. Of course Janis or Missy could visit and stay forever. Nevertheless, not much of a star watcher and have never written a fan letter. Would not go out of my way to see a star or entertainer perform but understand why others do so. More adventuresome and less neurotic than I. As for me, would much rather hear the knock of my door tonight and find Kakki or one of the Mary's at my door. Or Victor, or wally, or any number of JMDL's, or an old friend. I guess these kind of posts are frowned upon here but that is why I sought it out in the first place, to express my feelings to those whom I thought would understand. Feeling melancholy and found out tonight that a good friend has only 3 months to live, or less. Turned here out of reflex, for expression, and for an outlet that is not too close. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:40:47 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: judgement of the moon and stars of all the great joni tunes, I am always drawn back to this one. in my opinion, the best of the best. the more I listen to For the Roses, it slowly, yet surely, surpasses court and spark. I am lucky for I have yet to discover more Joni as do not have all of the albums yet. Keep listening to Hejira hoping to find it, what I keep reading is there, but have not yet done so. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 17:49:50 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Ricki Lee njc >>>It was also the song that Ricki Lee and I discussed over drinks back in 79, after her show at the Park West/Chicago, which I've mentioned here before. Can it be I was only half as old then as I am now?! DOH!<<< Susan, did I miss or forget this? Please tell the story again! LOL re: your interpretive dancing ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 01:51:23 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: The Return of Singer/Songwriters NJC > The trend is > already here, but it wears a black face. Could that > be why it is invisible? I may be misunderstanding what is meant by this remark, so I apologise in advance if I have. I have seen similar remarks made before. It makes me feel quite uncomfortable. If I am understanding it correctly, the implication is that as i dislike the type of music you are referring to, I am racist? I do not like Ms Hill at all. Is she the one who used to be with The Fugees? A band I heard of couple of murdered classics from. I don't like Ms Blige either. Nor NSync, nor All Saints, nor Britney, nor M&M, I don't like Hip Hop, I don't like Soul, I don't like Heavy Metal, i don't like bands like Bon Jovi, CSN&Y, I cannot stand Mr Dylan, nor RLJ nor Ms Krall nor Joplin(janis)the list is endless! I am fussy, very when it comes to music. The people I do like mostly are 4 white women and 2 black women - -singer/songwriters all. I also like an assortment of other people, mainly music rather than vocals. the one thing I definately lack is appreciation for male singers which may or may not have something to do with my general lack of appreciation for men. However, I think it is more to do with the fact that I just don't relate to what they sing about and because the voice just doesn't touch me. The sexuality of the male doesn't seem to make any difference. I can't abide listening to Elton John. To be fair tho I do have 3 Bowie albums that I like very much(DD< Ziggy and STS) and a couple of Jimmy Somerville's, tho his voice is very interesting and different. And I like some Elvis ballads etc. I think taste is taste and whilst I can well believe that there people who will not listen to a black persons music just because they are black, I don't think in general that people like myself who do not like certain music, dislike it because of the race of the composer/singer! For me I dislike it cos it irritates the hell out of me, it jangles me, it leaves me wanting less. this goes for any music I dislike. I really really really dislike RAP(or whatever it is called now) and I really really really dislike Opera-both for the same reason. They have the same effect on me as does the dentists drill or nails dragging down a chalkboard! bw colin > > > --Michael > > NP: Mary J. Blige, _No More Drama_ > > ===== > ____________________________________________________________ > > "Greetings cards routinely tell us everybody deserves love. > No. Everybody deserves clean water. Not everybody deserves > love all the time." > > --Zadie Smith, _White Teeth_ > Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals > http://personals.yahoo.com - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 20:52:47 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: judgement of the moon and stars > of all the great joni tunes, I am always drawn back to this one. in my > opinion, the best of the best. I love this tune also...I have fond memories of staying up every night for several weeks, listening to it over and over, picking out all the notes on the piano, and then playing it with Leslie Mixon in Topsfield...it is forever etched into my soul. I wish peace and comfort for your friend. Victor in Athens, wishing I could on a road trip to Texas or Mexico or Canada or the lost city of Atlantis Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 01:55:09 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: visits? njc > Feeling melancholy and found out tonight that a good friend has only 3 months > to live, or less. I am sorry to read this. Life can be a real bitch as they say. > Turned here out of reflex, for expression, and for an > outlet that is not too close. good for you. outlets. close or not, are important to our well being. > > > Mack - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:00:35 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: A Case John VT, how nice to hear from you! I love reading your review of this concert...it sounds like an amazing hall... >>>Just wanted to share this with you ... Last Wednesday, Amsterdam, the Concertgebouw. Diana Krall in Concert<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:55:38 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: judgement of the moon and stars > Victor in Athens, wishing I could on a road trip to Texas or Mexico or > Canada or the lost city of Atlantis Please let me go too Victor. Your words bare your soul and it is a soul that I very much like. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:01:22 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Ricki Lee njc susan susan susan susan susan susan susan susan susan susan susan susan susan susan susan susan susan susan !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DETAILS PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Kate Bennett Enviado el: Lunes, 19 de Noviembre de 2001 10:50 p.m. Para: Joni@Smoe. Org Asunto: Ricki Lee njc >>>It was also the song that Ricki Lee and I discussed over drinks back in 79, after her show at the Park West/Chicago, which I've mentioned here before. Can it be I was only half as old then as I am now?! DOH!<<< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 20:01:15 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: mary blige njc I have seen this woman mentioned frequently here. I have only seen her a couple of times, on television, and thought she did not have much of a talent for singing. It is hard for me to explain but I have found most of the singers, at least the popular ones that I have had the misfortune to hear, again on television, these days are not singing in a style that is natural. They do something odd with their voices, that I cannot explain into words, and I cannot stand to listen. I do like soul music and am especially fond of r and b of the sixties and seventies. My nephew was listening to Jewel and I told him that she sounded like a very bad Joni imitation. A synthetic Joni. He didn't understand but I find this woman very weak. mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: "colin" To: "mack watson-bush" Cc: "joni" Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 7:55 PM Subject: Re: visits? njc > > > > Feeling melancholy and found out tonight that a good friend has only 3 months > > to live, or less. > > I am sorry to read this. Life can be a real bitch as they say. > > > Turned here out of reflex, for expression, and for an > > outlet that is not too close. > > good for you. outlets. close or not, are important to our well being. > > > > > > > Mack > > -- > bw > colin > DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, > Duo80. > > colin@tantra-apso.com > http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:08:00 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: The Return of Singer/Songwriters NJC > I think taste is taste and whilst I can well believe that there people > who will not listen to a black persons music just because they are > black, I don't think in general that people like myself who do not like > certain music, dislike it because of the race of the composer/singer! > For me I dislike it cos it irritates the hell out of me, it jangles me, > it leaves me wanting less. I agree with you exactly! Stevie Wonder, Bob Marley, Ella Fitzgerald, John Coltrane...these black artists are very close to my soul and lift me up in a way noone else can. I simply do not like much of the modern hip/hop/r&b music that seems to be very popular, for the most part because of the repetitive electronic sounding beat that drives me mad. It certainly seems that most artists in the urban music scene have plenty of exposure though, regardless of color. I think a debate over which is better, singer/songwriters with a guitar or pop music, would go nowhere quickly but I don't think that was the point of Kate's post. If there is more interest in acoustic musicians then I think that is great and hope it continues. If some people like the more "pop" oriented music then that is fine too. Everybody has different tastes. Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 20:12:24 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: The Return of Singer/Songwriters NJC Stevie Wonder, Bob Marley, Ella Fitzgerald, John > Coltrane...these black artists are very close to my soul and lift me up in a > way noone else can. Everybody has different tastes. So true and what is interesting to me is that what one person can find so great, so touching and moving, another person cannot hear, or feel. Rosalie does not like Joni and laughs at me when I play her music. She loves Stevie Ray and hard rock. The headbangers I call them. That music moves her, touches her; while all it does for me is make me physically ill if I am forced to listen to it. I have tried to expand into other areas and find just what others hear but oft cannot. Is it inherent, learned, what? Mack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:28:28 -0500 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: Re: Natalie njc On Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:22:15 JRMCo1 wrote: I don't consider her a singer/songwriter though, 'cause as far as I know she doesn't play an instrument, which is a prerequisite for membership on that list of mine. Hey Julius! I am a Natalie fan too, and believe that she plays the piano. Her Maniac days are my favorite, although some of her newer stuff (thanks Chris M.) has grown on me over the last few years. What first brought me to the Maniacs and Natalie was an add for In My Tribe in Rolling Stone likening her to Joni. That was all the push I needed. So, jumpin' on the Nat Bandwagon while falling off the other wagon! n.p. Tom Petty "Something in the Air" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 02:51:21 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: The Return of Singer/Songwriters NJC > If there is more interest in acoustic musicians then I think > that is great and hope it continues. If some people like the more "pop" > oriented music then that is fine too. I like both types! I love msuic with a thump thump thump beat-like a lot of dance music. Always have. i love music that is created on synths with a heavy drum beat. And i ove to hear a woman and her guitar! And most nights recently I have let Nana Mouskouri sing me to sleep! there is no accounting for taste. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:58:11 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Nana Mouskouri (njc) She does a version of a really pretty song by Francis Cabrel, Repondez-moi. Now there's someone whose music I love and its all in French. I probably never would have discovered him if I hadn't had dated a French girl for half a year and for that matter, never would have discovered how beautiful the French countryside is. His songs are gorgeous and makes me wish I could sing in French all the time. Victor NP: Frances Cabrel Petite Marie Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:14:34 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Man of Heart & Mind :-) << But really: Has any man ever covered the song? It's soooo beautiful. >> Minnie Ripperton is the only one I've been able to find thus far. She changes the infamous line to "lay with strangers". So you might say she sings the fuck out of it! :~) I'd have liked to hear your take on it, Walt...there really are no boundaries I suppose. After all, Joni used to sing "Winter Lady" live and said that she wrote it for a man to sing to a woman, but liked it so much she sings it as well. Bob NP: Roger Cardwell, "The Circle Game" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:29:44 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Man of Heart & Mind :-) In a message dated 11/19/01 7:14:34 PM, SCJoniGuy wrote (re my version of "Woman of Heart and Mind" way back when): << I'd have liked to hear your take on it, Walt >> You know what -- it's been twentiy years since I sang my version, but I bet I can reconstruct my lyrics if i try. I'll let you, and everyone, know what I come up with. It won't be earth-shaking, of course, because (1) the original was so perfect and my changes were minimal, as I dimly recall, and (2) I'm *so* not a poet. :-) fondly, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:39:41 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: 44 seconds of prime Joni cover free! Stumbled upon this one today while looking for Joni covers: http://www.vocalogy.net/mp3s/drycleaner.mp3 It's a 44-second excerpt of Vocalogy's cover of "Dry Cleaner"...Manhattan Transfer style. I'm on the case trying to get the entire thing... Bob NP: Leslie Ritter/Scott Petito, "Woodstock" (ooooooh it's nice!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:05:40 -0500 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Man of Heart & Mind :-) BigWalt wrote: > << But really: Has any man ever covered the song? It's soooo beautiful. >> > Then SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Minnie Ripperton is the only one I've been able to find thus far. She changes the infamous line to "lay with strangers". So you might say she sings the fuck out of it! :~) I'd have liked to hear your take on it, Walt...there really are no boundaries I suppose. After all, Joni used to sing "Winter Lady" live and said that she wrote it for a man to sing to a woman, but liked it so much she sings it as well. > Bob > > NP: Roger Cardwell, "The Circle Game" I definitely agree here Bob. I know that in the past I used to record changing the lyrics from "he" to "she" when supposedly necessary to appear "normal" but I've grown to believe that a writer's lyrics should usually be sung the way they were written. Women have been doing this for years (singing songs in the man's persona), but there seems to have been a stigma against other men saying "he", which perhaps comes from a somewhat homophobic society. Being such a fan of Laura Nyro and Joni, and having done many of their songs through the years, guess I just decided to leave well enough alone!!! I have an old recording I did of Laura's "Tom Cat Goodby" that I did back in the '70s and I didn't change a word. Even sang it in the clubs that way. I loved the song and there just wasn't a better way to do it!! All the best, Gary ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:13:59 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Man of Heart & Mind :-) In a message dated 11/19/01 7:59:51 PM, garyzack@ameritech.net writes: [clip] << I have an old recording I did of Laura's "Tom Cat Goodby" that I did back in the '70s and I didn't change a word. Even sang it in the clubs that way. I loved the song and there just wasn't a better way to do it!! >> Gary -- That is so cool! I was a Laura fan before I was a Joni fan, and Tom Cat Goodby is a masterpiece of changing moods and tempos, and you're right, I wouldn't change a word -- and may or may not follow up on my threat/promise of reconstructing my "male" version of Woman of Heart&Mind. warmly, walt Return-path: From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Full-name: BigWaltinSF Message-ID: <69.1e35e1ee.292b3205@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:11:49 EST Subject: Re: Man of Heart & Mind :-) To: garyzack@ameritech.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 147 In a message dated 11/19/01 7:59:51 PM, garyzack@ameritech.net writes: << I have an old recording I did of Laura's "Tom Cat Goodby" that I did back in the '70s and I didn't change a word. Even sang it in the clubs that way. I loved the song and there just wasn't a better way to do it!! >> Gary -- That is so cool! I was a Laura fan before I was a Joni fan, and Tome Cat Goodby is a masterpiece of changing moods and tempos, and you're right, I wouldn't change a word -- and may or may not follow up on my threat/promise of reconstructing my "male" version of Woman of Heart&Mind. warmly, walt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:18:36 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Man of Heart & Mind :-) << I loved the song and there just wasn't a better way to do it!! >> I can relate, Gary...when I sang "Amelia" at Jonifest, I didn't consider changing the lyric to fit me. And it worked just fine. And of course, how can I mention "Winter Lady" without acknowledging your superb take on it! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 20:26:43 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: A Handkerchief World NJC It was so nice to run into Phyliss & meet her husband Bob & to see their beautiful creations- pottery, some of it raku with really beautiful golden metallic tones over the other colors...neither of us knew the other one was going to be there! In retrospect, I should have played some Joni songs but I would have had to alter the tunings in a major way...& of course Jeff would have been left out cuz he hasn't learned any harmonica parts to those songs (yet). It was a beautiful day in the Pasadena Park & we stayed to listen to the rest of the musicians that played after us & to eat from more than one of the many food boths there. Phyliss & I both fell in love with some very beautiful clothes designed & manufactured by, as it turns out, someone I knew from Santa Barbara. Fairytale clothes of silk & burned out velvet with wonderful flowing lines & elegant details...on the expensive side but beautiful enough to be worth it...eventually >>>Bob and I showed our work this weekend at the Pasadena Fall Art Show.... I guess you never know where you are going to run into a JMDL'r...Phyliss<<< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:31:16 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: (Wo)man of Heart and Mind... (less and less jc -- so njc) Hi, guys (and all), Our discussion of the merit (and mostly the lack thereof) of changing the lyrics when you're singing a song written by a person of the other gender brought to mind James Taylor's "Millworker" (the lyrics are from the point of view of an exhausted and hopeless woman who works in a mill), which I first heard when he performed it on Saturday Night Live sometime back in the late '70's or early '80's. Brought tears to my eyes then and ever since. I think it's on the Flag album. Bette Midler did a version of it. Know of it (silly question, knowing Bob :-)? Fondly, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 01:59:10 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Man of Heart & Mind njc well, while i was singing coyote at jonifest 2000, i seemed to change the lyrics to make it emphatically from a man to and about another man. marcel made me aware of that after he listened to the fest cd's [i never got them so i have to go by memory and the mp3 thingy i downloaded back then]. i never saw the point of changing the lyrics unless it is because you can't do the character. there's no reason why you should bother to sing other people's music if you don't feel it is right for you, although it may not be ABOUT you. i've never seen a coyote in my whole life, for god's sake, so should i sing about a dog? ''no regrets, labrador...'' so how is it any different when you sing ''i am a woman of heart and mind''? you ARE a woh&m if you chose to sing that song! if you feel that you can build upon the song, go ahead and ADD meaning to it. now, substracting from it because it doesn't seem right... uh uh. if you want to sing woh&m it is because you want to explore the topic: i'm not your mom, i am a woman of heart and mind. there's no re-genderizing such a simple message. about himself, many a man will choose to sing another song. wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 00:33:31 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: At very long last -- the SFBayArea jdmlers get-together on 11/7 (njc) Hi, all, To start, Darice deserves our hugest gratitude for being the instigator and coordinator of this thing -- Darice thank you, and I'm so glad I got to chat with you for a while before the music began! And mucho kudos to Richard for suggesting the locale. When I got there, Darice had already arrived, as had Richard G. and John G. and their domestic partners; I had in tow my two friends and houseguests, Evan and Dave; my own partner Robert arrived a little later, and to my huge surprise, so did my newest friend Alberto (a young Spaniard whom I met -- long story short -- because he and a friend left a backpack full of wallets, passports, camera, etc. on a bench in Alamo Square -- that little park from which one can take picture of gingerbread houses with the cityscape in the background; R & I took the bag to the nearest SFPD precinct, and the desk sarge hinted heavily that whoever left it there would be better served by our trying hard to locate the parties ourselves -- so we did, and Alfredo was one of the young lads we met as a result -- and he came to the Cafe!!). Also arriving late was Julius, whom I did at least get to meet briefly, but I didn't get a chance to really talk to. In fact, that was the only flaw in the evening, as far as I was concerned -- I only got to chat with the other jmdlers briefly at best -- but the good news was the music! There were three performers -- Garrin Benfield, who also MCs these things (gay and lesbian singer/songwriters, first Wed of ervery month -- Richard, correct me if i got any of that wrong) -- Holcombe Waller, and Mitchelle Tanner. Someone -- was it Darice or Richard or someone else? -- had made these sticky patch thingies of Joni as Van Gogh from TI, and all jmdlers were given one -- and Garrin and Holcombe wore them too. (I don't seem to recall Mitchelle wearing one, the obvious comparison between her first name and you-know-who's last aside.) Garrin's music was spectacular -- his lyrics are mostly about relationships, the ups, the downs, trying to maintain one, monogamy -- ring a bell? As broke as i am, I bought his album during the intermission. His voice ranges from a mid baritone most of the time to an occasional pretty deep bass; hard to compare voices, but maybe a little James Taylorish, although his writing style reminds *me* more of Marc Cohn or John Gorka. Only a cute gay male instead. Down to earth, accessible, but with great zingers. I keep playing his album, along with Holcombe's (more about him shortly). His website is , and his record label's is . Check him out. I am btw no-one's agent :-). Holcombe, in short, blew me out of the water. The songs he performed were all roller coaster rides, huge swings of emotion, and he acted every atom out of them. During the intermission, while he was signing the cd I was buying, I asked him he could do that -- sing songs like that and then immediately return to the "real world" (I want to ask that of all singer/songwriters of merit, of course, but he was the one I was talking to) -- and he just shrugged and smiled. His voice is hard to pinpoint... Do any of you know Kenny Rankin or (even more obscure) Brian Kennedy, who sounded eerily like Joni on the one CD of his I'm aware of ("The Great War of Words" -- the single that was released was "Hollow" -- released in '90', and i never saw anything else by him). But I digress. As usual. Back to Holcombe: he isn't afraid to swing back and forth between the male and female sides of his voice. Think maybe the great Laura Nyro, Kate Bush, Tori Amos.. sorta like that, but a cute gay male instead. His site is (not surprisingly) The third singer, Mitchelle, was, I gathered, better-known than the others, and I would swear I'd heard her name before. Anyone heard of her? Maybe she's done a Lillith or some such? Anyway, I wasn't overwhelmed by her. I should say I tend to like women singers more than men singers, so this shouldn't be read as a male/female thing (please!). I can't say she had an off night, because as far as i could tell, she was comfortable, seemed confident on stage. Her voice was fine -- I just wasn't impressed by her songs... They were competent, but not... thrilling, like Garrin's or Holcombe's. Go figure. That said, her website (or I guess just e-mail) is . I know -- this was supposed to be about Bay Area jmdlers, and I've written mostly about young singer/songwriters. But that was mostly what the evening turned out to be about. Nothing to gossip about, since we all barely met. I'm really looking forward to the next Bay Area jmdler get-together; perhaps we can find a place -- maybe even someone's pad (I volunteer, but it's so small, it'd be a tight fit), or cafe on an off night, where we can talk and get to know each other. Maybe something in Hayes Valley, where two of us jmdlers live (John G., any ideas for a place?). In the meantime, I'll be back at the Cafe Bazaar (ooo! the address! Damn -- I know it's between 21st and 22nd avenues on California -- Richard -- help me out here) next first wednesday (12/5) to hear more new singer/songwriters. hugs to all -- I've posted myself into exhaustion today! walt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 00:50:15 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Dingo of Heart & Mind njc In a message dated 11/20/01 12:01:40 AM, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << i've never seen a coyote in my whole life, for god's sake, so should i sing about a dog? ''no regrets, labrador...'' >> No, Wally, of course not. Although I would love to hear some of Hell's dingo ditties. XO, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 02:56:00 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Dingo of Heart & Mind njc hell will kill us all one day. there are no dingoes in nz!!!! wallyK, no regrets yorkshire poodle - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Murphycopy@aol.com Enviado el: Martes, 20 de Noviembre de 2001 02:50 a.m. Para: wallykai@fibertel.com.ar; garyzack@ameritech.net; SCJoniGuy@aol.com; BigWaltinSF@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Dingo of Heart & Mind njc In a message dated 11/20/01 12:01:40 AM, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << i've never seen a coyote in my whole life, for god's sake, so should i sing about a dog? ''no regrets, labrador...'' >> No, Wally, of course not. Although I would love to hear some of Hell's dingo ditties. XO, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 01:18:42 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Dingo of Heart & Mind njc In a message dated 11/20/01 12:57:41 AM, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << hell will kill us all one day. there are no dingoes in nz!!!! >> I know, but that didn't stop *some* people from driving poor Hell crazy at Jonifest with dingo comments. Come on, Wally, it's fun to torment Hell with dingo stuff. She particularly loves imitations of Meryl Streep crying, "The dingo took my baby!" with bad Aussie accents. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 03:22:58 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Dingo of Heart & Mind njc i know, i know, it's so much fun and SO addictive. it's just that i fear the girl's wrath, that's all. maybe the dingo ate my courage. - -----Mensaje original----- De: Murphycopy@aol.com [mailto:Murphycopy@aol.com] Enviado el: Martes, 20 de Noviembre de 2001 03:19 a.m. Para: wallykai@fibertel.com.ar; Murphycopy@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Dingo of Heart & Mind njc In a message dated 11/20/01 12:57:41 AM, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << hell will kill us all one day. there are no dingoes in nz!!!! >> I know, but that didn't stop *some* people from driving poor Hell crazy at Jonifest with dingo comments. Come on, Wally, it's fun to torment Hell with dingo stuff. She particularly loves imitations of Meryl Streep crying, "The dingo took my baby!" with bad Aussie accents. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:31:45 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: visits? njc > As for me, would much rather hear the knock of my door tonight and find Kakki or one of the Mary's at my door. Or > Victor, or wally, or any number of JMDL's, or an old friend. Aw Mack, that's so sweet! Yeah, the jmdler's are a good bunch. Hey let's have a Tex-Fest and we can rope in Paz and his pal Stills from nearby Nawlins to drop in ;-) Judgement of the Moon and Stars is my Number One Joni song. I guess I'd always dreamed of telling her that and I did squeeze it in real fast when I talked with her recently. She kind of seemed momentarily surprised at my choice but then quickly recovered and took that lead to go into a long discourse on Beethoven and then Mozart, etc. etc. ;-) When she performed it with the orchestra at the 2000 concert in L.A. - it was a complete surprise - and I totally flipped out!! I can't wait to hear it on the next album. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:35:15 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Man of Heart & Mind :-) Gary wrote: >I have an old recording I did of Laura's "Tom Cat Goodby" that I did back in the '70s and I didn't change > a word. Even sang it in the clubs that way. I loved the song and there > just wasn't a better way to do it!! And I am a lucky recipient of that recording! I also recall trying to make you play and sing it along with me at Coyote Rick's when you were here. Oh well, I dream big. Heh heh - thank you again for the indulgence ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 04:35:24 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: visits? njc baby, that's so sweet!!!!!! but be careful with what you wish because you may get it! wallyK, planning a surprise assault on mack's farm! - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de mack watson-bush Enviado el: Lunes, 19 de Noviembre de 2001 10:27 p.m. Para: joni Asunto: visits? njc or wally, or any number of JMDL's, ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #557 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?