From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #556 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, November 19 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 556 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: November 19 [les@jmdl.com] Re: Joni's painting & technical terms ["Kakki" ] Re. The wor(l)d is a handkerchief. NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_El_mundo_es_un_pa=F1uelo_and_Joni_content? = [fernan] Re: ???? njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: A Case [SAVtheWAVE@aol.com] my favourite position... [colin ] Re: More Star Studded news (NJC) ["Ron Greer" ] RE - Lisa Loeb (NJC) ["Ron Greer" ] Re: A Case NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] Re: SNL NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] NJC Re: Rikki, Natalie NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] wow Mikie!!!! (njc) [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: Billy's list-now RLJ & some Blondie (njc) [Michael Yarbrough ] RE: A Case (VLJC) [Susan Guzzi ] Re: brilliant, but not easy to listen to (NJC) [Michael Yarbrough ] RE: Rikki, Natalie NJC [Susan Guzzi ] Re: For cover completists [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: For cover completists [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Small World [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Small World [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Small World [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: brilliant, but not easy to listen to (NJC) ["Victor Johnson" ] The Return of Singer/Songwriters NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni's painting & technical terms [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Women in Afghanistan (njc) [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] re: A Case njc ["joe farrell" ] RE: The Return of Singer/Songwriters NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] virus? njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: The Return of Singer/Songwriters NJC ["Kakki" ] RE: The Return of Singer/Songwriters NJC [Michael Yarbrough Subject: Re: Joni's painting & technical terms Walt wrote: > I'm interested in art history, but am woefully ignorant of art techniques I've painted all my life and majored in painting in a university art school and am also somewhat ignorant of art techniques! I'm always impressed by Debra's and John's knowledge. "Back in my day" I guess the method was more to just to throw you off the deep end of the pool, assign you several hundred drawings or several paintings to complete by semester's end and see if you survived. I'm not saying that's a good thing but that is how I was taught or probably *not* taught ;-) The only classes where I learned anything new (or learned to "see" in a broader sense) was in design. > I may have the wrong term, but I had kind of concluded that Joni's style, > while reeling from complete abstractiop, through impressionism, to > more-or-less realism, was centered on the fauvist idea of the use of color -- > just as John said (in different words, of course). I'd put Joni in the fauvist category before I learned of her great affection for Matisse (the godfather of fauvism). She has often spoken in interviews of Van Gogh and Matisse as her favorites. A couple of her paintings from the Wild Things Run Fast album are homages to Matisse. By the way Walt, when are you going to tell us about your gathering in San Francisco?? And where's the rest of youse who were there? ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:07:31 +0100 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re. The wor(l)d is a handkerchief. NJC Fernando wrote: >>Hello, I write from Spain, I4m Spanish, and I must say to Michael Paz that "el mundo es un paquelo" has no sense in Spanish. The correct one is "el mundo es un paquelo" (the world is a handkerchief).<< Paz replied >>HUH??? Where I come from "El Mundo es un panuelo" is the world is a hankerchief. Where did this whole thing get started? I don't recall posting anything about the world being a hankerchief in any language. << mike in Barcelona says that he (and NOT Paz) wrote the original sentence referred to (and mangled up) above . I was talking about the coincidence about the Yoko Ono poster and the bar called 'Imagine' which was right next to it. Where in English you (we) would say "Small World" to express surprise at the coincidence, here in Spain we say 'El mundo es un panuelo' (except that the letter 'n' in panuelo would be the Spanish letter with the tilde above, as it would be in 'Senor'). It's very frustrating not to be able to use these letters on a standard keyboard. How Fernando got this mixed up I don't know. This is a classic example of ethnocentric thinking on the Internet. People are unable to write Spanish, Portuguese or French characters (not to mention not-European letters) because the Internet was created by and for English speakers. I have discussed this with Les and asked if it were possible to use these non-standard characters and was told to 'try it and see what happens'. Clearly, as you can see in the first extract above, it is simply not possible to write the word for 'handkerchief', or 'Mister', or 'tomorrow' in Spanish, all quite common words for people in New Mexico, Arizona, California and many other Spanish-speaking areas of the USA because the Internet protocols translate these characters into something else, such as 'paquelo' which does not mean anything. Sorry Paz got dragged into this mess without being responsible for it all, but that's the situation for people from other languages who want to use words, including their own name, which originate in other languages, even languages that share the same (more or less) character set. Any suggestions from anyone out there? Mike in Barcelona. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:13:35 +0100 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Galeano - Guanahani NJC 1492: Guanahani: Columbus He falls to his knees, weeps, kisses the earth. He steps forward, staggering because for more than a month he has hardly slept, and beheads some shrubs with his sword. Then he raises the flag. On one knee, eyes lifted to heaven, he pronounces three times the names of Isabella and Ferdinand. Beside him the scribe Rodrigo de Escobedo, a man slow of pen, draws up the document. From today, everything belongs to those remote monarchs: the coral sea, the beaches, the rocks all green with moss, the woods, the parrots, and these laurel-skinned people who don't yet know about clothes, sin, money and gaze dazedly at the scene. Luis de Torres translates Christopher Columbus's questions into Hebrew: "Do you know the kingdom of the Great Khan? Where does the gold you have in your noses and ears come from?" The naked men stare at him with open mouths, and the interpreter tries out his small stock of Chaldean: "Gold? Temples? Palaces? King of kings? Gold?" Then he tries his Arabic, the little he knows of it: "Japan? China? Gold?" The interpreter apologises to Columbus in the language of Castile. Columbus curses in Genovese and throws to the ground his credentials, written in Latin and addressed to the Great Khan. The naked men watch the anger of the intruder with red hair and coarse skin, who wears a velvet cape and very shiny clothes. Soon the word will run through the islands: "Come and see the men who arrived from the sky! Bring them food and drink!" Eduardo Galeano: Genesis, p. 45 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:36:09 +0100 From: fernando.fernandez@educ.mec.es Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_El_mundo_es_un_pa=F1uelo_and_Joni_content? = Hello, Michael, thank you for the answer. I4d swear to have read it in some of your messages. Perhaps as an answer to a message sent by you. I4ve been searching in the last messages and nothing have found. Wally Kairuz, in a message dated the 16th, says that the list cannot read one letter of the Spanish alphabet, and that4s what I imagined and that4s the point of the mess. No matter, and excuse me if you didn4t say nothing about it. Entering into Joni4s content, I would like to know if somebody of the list has more information on the collaboration of John McLaughlin in Joni4s Mingus (1979). He finally didn4t participate in the recording sessions, but he was in the previous sessions. What about that? Come in From The Cold Beatles Forever P.D.: I see that was Mike who wrote it, and I agree with his comments on the scarcity of characters in internet, although I think that, with some effort, something more can be reached. > ---------- > De: Michael Paz[SMTP:jmichaelpaz@telocity.com] > Responder a: Michael Paz > Enviado el: sabado 17 de noviembre de 2001 20:25 > Para: fernando.fernandez@educ.mec.es; joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: El mundo es un paquelo > > HUH??? Where I come from "El Mundo es un panuelo" is the world is a > hankerchief. Where did this whole thing get started? I don't recall > posting > anything about the world being a hankerchief in any language. Welcome to > the > list Fernando. > > Interesting, > > Michael (in English saying, "please have this, little bit of instant > bliss") > > on 11/16/01 1:02 AM, fernando.fernandez@educ.mec.es at > fernando.fernandez@educ.mec.es wrote: > > > Hello, I write from Spain, I4m Spanish, and I must say to Michael > > Paz that "el mundo es un paquelo" has no sense in Spanish. The correct > one > > is "el mundo es un paquelo" (the world is a handkerchief). > > > > Come in From The Cold > > Beatles Forever ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 05:15:00 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: ???? njc Thanks Michael. Mack > Stax was a rhythm and blues label in the late 50's and 60's. Great music and > artists. There might be more info on the web site allmusic.com > > Cheers > > Michael > > > on 11/18/01 4:30 PM, mack watson-bush at courtandspark@earthlink.net wrote: > > > Can someone who knows what they are talking about tell me what Stax is? I > > remember reading once that janis' music was considered Stax, by that > > particular writer, and have seen the term on RLJ album Pirates in the tune > > Skeletons. Please define. > > > > Mack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 06:22:10 EST From: SAVtheWAVE@aol.com Subject: Re: A Case Absolutely beautiful experience John, and thank you so much for sharing it with us all. "A Case Of You" is one of, if not my favorite Joni song and it was awesome for me to see Diana Krall do her version of it during the Tribute last year, if only on the televised broadcast. Your description of the hall and its acoustics almost brought me to Amsterdam. When a song come from ones toes, as you describe, in an arena like that which you described, how could it not be one of life's best moments. I am happy to hear that for you. Thanks again. Joe (in Rhode Island ) - coming out of lurk mode for the moment. Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 09:53:26 +0100 From: "John van Tiel" Subject: A Case Just wanted to share this with you ... Last Wednesday, Amsterdam, the Concertgebouw. Diana Krall in Concert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:27:34 +0000 From: colin Subject: my favourite position... ....is sitting in the garden on this cold bright morning, having a fag and coffee, watching the dogs playing and listening to Joni-this morning's choice being LOTC. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 13:41:00 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: Re: More Star Studded news (NJC) hi >>Paz (Still reeling) wrote >>studio in New Orleans was at his disposal. He said he would like that and >>blah blah. Next thing you know..... Oh god who knows whats next.. crosby, stills, nash & paz sounds quite good.... :-) ron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 13:51:08 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: RE - Lisa Loeb (NJC) Hi >>paz wrote >>>In other news Jack and I went to see Lisa Loeb (sp?) at House of Blues last night with a dear friend that came from out of town to hang for the weekend. She was really good. So sweet and i really love her voice.<< >>kate wrote I saw her a few years ago...she is funny & quirky (sorta like Dar Williams) & really enjoyable...her boyfriend at the time (Dweezil Zappa) was playing guitar with her...also adorable & the chemistry between them was cool...<< count me in on this one. i absolutely love "tails" & "firecrackers" ( i bought tails cause it had a picture of a cat on the cover - then just had to get firecracker). imho she has something special - after listening to her music i just feel so refreshed & revitalized..... ron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:53:31 +0100 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re: A Case NJC >>The acoustics of the hall are unbelievable. Even at capacity crowd, every whisper can be heard. Mikes are unnecessary. << I beg to differ. mike NP 'Forever Changes' - Love (with 7 bonus tracks!!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:53:41 +0100 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re: SNL NJC >>Watched SNL last night...in one skit ("the fenced in area") a woman snipped to her husband (billy bob thornton).<< The reference to Billy Bob Thornton reminds me of a spectacular mistake (well, it gave me a chuckle) made by a Spanish newspaper a year or two ago. At the time there were a couple of films directed by brothers (The Farrellys, The Washkowskys? -excuse spelling) on release and the newspaper reviewed a film that Billy Bob had directed, and credited it to the Thornton brothers. That's right, 'Slingblade', dirigido por Bill y Bob Thornton. (For our non-Spanish readers 'y' means 'and' as in 'Slingblade' directed by Bill and Bob Thornton). mike NP 'Forever Changes' - Love (with 7 bonus tracks!!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 07:12:47 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Rikki, Natalie NJC <> Here's the whole truth...Rickie was SUPPOSED to do Chuck E & Danny's All Star Joint. She wanted to do Coolsville, but was told to do Danny's All Star Joint instead. She of course DID do Chuck E, but when her second slot came up she performed the Coolsville that she wanted to do. Rebel, rebel, indeed. Bob NP: The Beatles, unknown ------------------------------ Date: 19 Nov 2001 06:10:52 -0800 From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: wow Mikie!!!! (njc) So, when they said 'seeing stars' they meant meteors. But I guess you interpreted this in your own unique way. You realize, of course, that if Kakki were on the east coast, Joni probably would have stopped by :-) Sounds like a really fun time! Congrats! lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 07:16:20 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: Re: Billy's list-now RLJ & some Blondie (njc) Mark E. wrote: > I'm curious what you think of 'Ghostyhead', Michael. > It's not the > easiest record for me to listen to but I do think > it's brilliant. I *love* _Ghostyhead_. Back when everyone and their proverbial dog was playing around with trip-hop production, RLJ was one of the very few (besides bona fide trip-hop artists) to pull it off, and I think it's because she approached it as much for its sensibility as its sound. Its experimentalism and moodiness are good fits for her, and she really managed to extend her palette here rather than simply overlay some vaguely hip-hop-jazzy electrobeats onto her standard work. As for k.d.--I do like some things on _Drag_, but on the whole I think it a bit uninvolving. _Invincible Summer_ I find totally boring. I have no problems with fun records--one of the reasons I love _Music_ so much is that it revels so unreservedly in pure joy. It's just that nothing on _Summer_ really grabs me. Now _All That You Can Eat_ is a criminally underrated album in my opinion. There are some great adult pop ditties on there! - --Michael NP: Wilco, _Being There_ ===== ____________________________________________________________ "Greetings cards routinely tell us everybody deserves love. No. Everybody deserves clean water. Not everybody deserves love all the time." - --Zadie Smith, _White Teeth_ Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 07:19:22 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Small World Bob and I showed our work this weekend at the Pasadena Fall Art Show. In addition to the visual artists, they had two stages with live music going all day both Saturday and Sunday. I was amazed at the quality of all the groups that played. On Sunday I heard some familiar sounds coming from the stage nearest us. Peaking around the corner of my booth I saw a familiar figure across the lawn. Sure enough, it was our own Kate Bennet!!! Seeing as we each live about 100 miles away from Pasadena, in different places, this was quite a trip. I guess it really is a small world after all! Kakki and Rick were possibly going to stop by that day so I tried to reach them via cellphone, to no avail. It turns ut they were unable to make it. Could have been a mini-impromptu JoniFest! Anyway, Kate, Jeff, Bob, and I had a nice little visit and Kate was able to see our work. I had really wanted to go to Kate's Joni Tribute but had other obligations so this was a nice little treat. I guess you never know where you are going to run into a JMDL'r... - -- Phyliss mailto:phyliss@goldenfigclay.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 07:22:13 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: RE: A Case (VLJC) John Van Tiel wrote: But whatever she was going through, she turned "A Case Of You" into an unbelievable experience. It was one of the highlights of my entire life as a concert goer. Got goosebumps just reading this John. You can't have any expectations for a song or a performance like that, they just come out of nowhere and knock you off your feet. Lucky you Uncle John, glad you had such a wonderful experience! Jack wrote: Now when is she coming to Chicago? Well if and when she comes to Chicago, I can't imagine it would ever be like this again - cause I'd be expecting it. But I sure would like to see her try, see you there Jack. Peace Susan Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 07:24:53 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: Re: brilliant, but not easy to listen to (NJC) Bob Murphy wrote: > Don't you hate it when brilliant music is difficult > to listen to? I was just thinking this (again) about what I deem hands-down the best record from last year, _The Marshall Mathers LP_. This reveals what a horse-race fanatic I am--every time I pull out PJ Harvey's _Stories from the City..._, which came out the same year and is also tremendous, I mentally lash myself for not putting the Eminem on more often. It *is* to my mind an even better record--wholly original, so musical while so gruff, but *so* damn disturbing. I just never seem to be in the mood to put myself through the heavy-as-hell-art-grinder any more. - --Michael NP: Radiohead, _Kid A_ Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:31:49 -0600 From: ssimpson Subject: For cover completists Christine Albert and Chris Gage of Austin (who are married) now have a Christmas CD that covers "River." Interestingly, it's Chris who sings the lead. Have other men covered the song? I find that rather fresh and daring. Joni or her "people" must be nice about permissions, since Christine and Chris were able to include the song. They noted at the last live performance I attended that writers are highly variable in response, from very laid back to savagely legalistic and rude. The album is very country inflected. It ranges from an original, "One More Christmas," about the last Christmas in the old homeplace as the parents decide to move away, to the "Linus and Lucy" theme, to "Go Tell It on the Mountain." And Christine, who has some French ancestry and speaks French, does a very lovely "Un Flambeau Jeanette Isabelle." Their website is www.albertandgage.com. Happy Thanksgiving to everybody! Suzanne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:01:33 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: RE: Rikki, Natalie NJC I have never gotten the Natalie hysteria myself and was especially pleased she was left off the "100 Greatest Women in Rock" list. I liked the early Maniacs okay. But the people who thought/think she is an exceptional singer/songwriter floored me. How could they elevate this women so quickly and highly, while Joni went unnoticed by them. Then I realized she was the Yuppie Music Queen. The trend hoppers latched on to her and ... oh sorry I am going into one of my paranoid yuppie-hating tantrums! That kind of hysteria can turn me off to an artist. Now if I really think they are great, I can deal with it but marginal people like her well ... Finally, I did catch her at the last Lilith Fair and I enjoyed her energy and her performance okay, but I think any of the women of Jonifest 2001 can out sing her and out write her. And even I can spin around barefoot, arms extended, head swinging - hell what do you think my interpretive dance looks like! Also, wanted to comment on "Company" - by Ricki Lee. It is one of the best songs and should be in the American songbook. During these troubled times, my ex Elaine asked me to remember if anything happened to her (she flies very frequently for business)that I remember to play "Company" at her service. I just smiled but of course agreed to it, well it wouldn't be the first time, I did it for Robin. It was also the song that Ricki Lee and I discussed over drinks back in 79, after her show at the Park West/Chicago, which I've mentioned here before. Can it be I was only half as old then as I am now?! DOH! Peace Susan NPIMH: What else - Company! Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:58:06 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: For cover completists Well, I guess your subject line is referring to me, Suzanne! :~) <> Thanks for the tip...I've added this one to the JMDL covers database. As for men performing the song, plenty have done so. Some of the more notable include: Robert Downey Jr. on the Ally MacBeal Christmas CD. This has proven to be a very popular version. He does a fantastic job with it. Marti Pellow, lead vocalist for Wet Wet Wet, did it on air during a BBC radio show. Gorgeous! Billy Squier (he of 'stroke me, stroke me fame) does a bizarre version where he begins with the proper lyric and then really takes the words into left field, seemingly making them up as he went along. What was he thinking? Kenny Lattimore does a Stevie Wonderish reading on Peter White's CD. A little over-sanitized maybe, but very soulful. Dave van Ronk gravel-voices his way through it; James Taylor turns in a very emotional performance of the song with Joni watching on during the TNT tribute. He sings "I wish I had a river so wide" instead of long, but that was no major foul in my book. The song, one of the saddest and prettiest of Joni's, works for either gender as is the case for almost her catalogue. "Woman of Heart & Mind" notwithstanding! ;~) Bob NP: Kate Bennett, "Full Moon Ride" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:31:23 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: For cover completists In a message dated 11/19/01 11:03:25 AM, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes about "River": << The song, one of the saddest and prettiest of Joni's, works for either gender as is the case for almost her catalogue. "Woman of Heart & Mind" notwithstanding! ;~) >> And then again, even "Magdalene Lauderies" can be sung by a man, as Les Ross proved so memorably at Jonifest 2001. --Bob Murphy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:39:47 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Small World In a message dated 11/19/01 10:21:05 AM, phyliss@goldenfigclay.com writes: << I guess it really is a small world after all! >> Yes, Phyliss, the world is apparently an incorrectly spelled Spanish handkerchief. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:00:00 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Small World Sorry I forgot to tag the subject line in my last post with a NJC. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:16:40 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Small World In a message dated 11/19/01 10:21:05 AM, phyliss@goldenfigclay.com writes: << I guess it really is a small world after all! >> Yes, Phyliss, the world is apparently an incorrectly spelled Spanish handkerchief. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 13:15:24 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: brilliant, but not easy to listen to (NJC) > I just never seem to be in the mood to put myself > through the heavy-as-hell-art-grinder any more. That's the principal reason I don't wish to explore Emimem and similiar music. The mood music puts you in I think is something to take into consideration when you're deciding what music you wish to listen to. I mean if I wanted to explore what it's like to be heroin addict, I could shoot myself up several times but I know I'm definately not interested in becoming one so its simply not worth it. I feel the same way about music and think that how it makes people feel is something that is often taken for granted I remember seeing "Henry, Portrait of Serial Killer" when I was in college and found it so chilling simply because it was so realistic. At this point in my life though, I find I am not as interested in being disturbed, I'm just not really in the mood and would rather focus on brighter more positive things. This is not to say I am not concerned about *actual* problems and heartaches in the real world but perhaps place a greater value now on time and quality of life and just don't feel a need or desire to explore or experience a darker side. This has nothing to do with any moral or ethical debates but is just a pure feeling. I have enough trials and tribulations in my own life so why would I want to listen to someone else singing about their pain. I think that the media has propogated this for years and years, this desire to share in other people pain, loss, and misery. I still find myself getting sucked into it from time to time but am grateful when I can clear my mind of it all, perhaps walking in the woods across the street, surrounded by nature, something that is all to often neglected. Jazz is difficult to listen to. When I went to my first jazz concert, Chick Corea Electrik Band II, I could only stay for the first half as it was so overwhelming...it took awhile for me to learn to listen to jazz and gradually developed a great love for many wonderful artists. Joni's music I have grown to love in a way I never would have imagined three years ago, and that took some real effort, more than I had put into it prior to joining this list anyway. Anway, that statement "brilliant, but not easy to listen to" I can apply to the examples above with no problem. This is music I have grown to love over a period of time and my passion for it continues to grow deeper and deeper even now. However, if I were to listen to Emimem, I don't think I could say the same thing, and certainly don't imagine it is music I would grow to love. In that sense, the fact that it is "not easy to listen to" in my opinion, detracts from his music and discourages me from wanting to listen to it. If I were a fan of his but found myself not wanting to listen to his album, that would indicate something to me. And it puzzles me still why he's considered brilliant when so much of the attention is focused on the subject matter and ethical issues rather than the music itself. Just hypothetically, can you picture him performing when he is eighty? I wonder how he will view his own music when he is much older. And can he put out music that is not so controversial, does not deal with hatred and violence, and still be just as successful? To me, that's more of a measure of whether I would consider someone brilliant or not. Some people are more sensitive than others and perhaps I'm on the more sensitive side but I'm glad to be that way and consider it an admiral quality rather than a handicap. Why run myself through a grinder when even today I am dealing with difficult descisions that will affect me the rest of my life, decisions I'm not even sure I'm able to make Victor NP: Neil Young "Midnight on the Bay" Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:00:54 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Jennifer Warnes NJC >>>I did always think that Jennifer Warnes has been an extremely underrated singer/songwriter. I haven't heard her new CD called "The Well" yet but am anxious to pick it up, next time I head to the music store.<<< I always thought of her as a singer of other's songs...does she write too? i have heard lots of praise for her album of songs by Leonard Cohen - Famous Blue Raincoat (i think that is the name)... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:52:59 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: The Return of Singer/Songwriters NJC YES! "a recent Sam Goody poll of nearly 800 teens from across the country shows times, and tastes, are starting to change. Most teens today are listening to rock bands, not boy bands, and singer/songwriters are getting more play than the packaged pop stars of a year ago....Forty percent of teens say singer/songwriters are the hottest new trend. Thirty-nine percent say guitar rockers are the next big thing." see the entire article at http://mi2n.com/press.php3?press_nb=29785 ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:01:31 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: More Star Studded news (NJC) In a message dated 11/18/01 12:54:35 PM, jmichaelpaz@telocity.com writes: << Well what are the odds of your friend bringing Steven Stills over to your house? >> Gee, Michael, most of us can't even get a pizza delivered in the wee hours of the morning -- and you get Stills? How fair is that? Congratulations! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:02:34 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: Re: The Return of Singer/Songwriters NJC Well, personally, I'd rather listen to some tuneful fun pop from N'SYNC than the faux-deep sh*t that passes for singer-songwriter "craft" these days. It's about quality, not genre. - --Michael NPIMH: Britney Spears, "I'm a Slave 4 U"--a damn good pop song, whether or not it's all her producers - --- Kate Bennett wrote: > YES! > > "a recent Sam Goody poll of nearly 800 teens from > across the country shows > times, and tastes, are starting to change. Most > teens today are listening to > rock bands, not boy bands, and singer/songwriters > are getting more play than > the packaged pop stars of a year ago....Forty > percent of teens say > singer/songwriters are the hottest new trend. > Thirty-nine percent say guitar > rockers are the next big thing." > see the entire article at > http://mi2n.com/press.php3?press_nb=29785 > > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett > www.katebennett.com > sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com > Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: > http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html > ******************************************** ===== ____________________________________________________________ "Greetings cards routinely tell us everybody deserves love. No. Everybody deserves clean water. Not everybody deserves love all the time." - --Zadie Smith, _White Teeth_ Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 20:27:10 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: brilliant, but not easy to listen to > I find I am not as interested in being disturbed, I'm > just not really in the mood and would rather focus on brighter more positive > things. This is not to say I am not concerned about *actual* problems and > heartaches in the real world but perhaps place a greater value now on time > and quality of life and just don't feel a need or desire to explore or > experience a darker side. Voctor-I would say this is a positve and healthy attitude to have! Why burden yourslef with too much shit? It seems you are sensitive and that probably translates in to the way yopu treat people, having comapssion for them, and doing what you can. This doesn't mean you have to immerse yourself in other people's pain. The listening I do on a regular basis to abuse survivors could easily send one over the edge, and can lead to a very negative outlook on life. It did for a while. I choose to listen to upbeat music and also am more careful about what i choose to watch in the way of tv and film. I don't want too much realism and I don't really need to be told how bad life can be. i know. I listen to it day in and day out. Having said that, sometimes it is healthy to listen to or watch stuff that is depressing. It helps get you in touch with your feelings, process them and get the hell out! TI does that for me! Magdelene Laundries, Sex Kills, Job's Sad Song, Turbulent Indigo, Sunny Sunday, in fact most of them. It acts as a release valve. if I want to be lifted up I don't often put on Joni. Too heavy, mostly. There is a big difference tho between what you describe and thos people who just choose to ignore the suffering in this world and thereby add to it. You aren't doing that. I think there is also a way to express pain and make your point without alienating. Admittedly that is not easy. Yoiu are right-you have no reason to feel ashamed of being sensitive. It is a good quality, if a difficult one to live with at times. Just rememebr that those you complain you are being too sensitve and are usually insensitve and or abusive people.(abusive people are not necessarily deliberately being so-they are insensitive to it so don't recognize it). So stay sensitive and protect yourself. You are useless to yourself and to others if you if you don't take care of yourself. bw coluin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 16:26:01 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's painting & technical terms In a message dated 11/19/01 12:49:04 AM, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << By the way Walt, when are you going to tell us about your gathering in San Francisco?? And where's the rest of youse who were there? ;-) >> Yo, Kakki and all, I finally have an afternoon free (and my fingers working reasonably well), and will be sending my account of our get-together here in SF on the jone-ster's b-day later today. I think no-one else has bothered because they *assumed* I'd do it, given my having the biggest mouth amongst the SF Bay jmdlers -- if not in the Bay Area, period. :-) hugs, walt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 16:35:50 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Women in Afghanistan (njc) Hi, all, I got a real good (but too long to post here) message from a friend at If you're concerned about the US administration's keeping the treatment of women in Afghanistan a priority in their negotiations with whoever the hell ends up in charge there, check out this site. They have info & recommendations for action, etc. I don't usually "proselytize", but I thought this was important enough. warmly, walt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:58:10 -0000 From: "joe farrell" Subject: re: A Case njc Hi John, How are you doin'? Sounds like the Diana Krall was amazing. What an experience, thanks for sharing it. Wonderful venue and a Joni song as well, terrific. Cheers John, take care, Joe. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 13:46:02 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: The Return of Singer/Songwriters NJC michael y- you are absolutely right...it is about quality not genre & in spite of our common appreciation of joni mitchell, there is an amazing diversity of tastes on this list...quality, we all know, is quite subjective i am not sure what specific artists you are referring to when you write "faux-deep sh*t that passes for singer-songwriter "craft" these days"...but there really is an amazing array of talented singer/songwriters that are (unfortunately) outside of the radar of most of the record buying, music listening, concert going public... i doubt anyone will hear it on most commercial radio stations...if someone were to attend, say, a folk alliance event, or listen to noncommercial radio, or attend concerts like our own steve dulson produces or one of the many great house concerts around the country that are popular today, you would be blown away by the level of songwriting & musicianship talent out there...no fauxness or lack of craft at all.. our very own gregg cagno is just one excellent example of great songwriting craft, superb guitar chops, fabulous voice & engaging stage presence...as is the much beloved & well known john gorka, & ashara's favorite cheryl wheeler....& there are oh so many more... the reason i posted this article is because it is so heartening to me to know that there seems to be a trend growing that might lead kids into pursuing a musical instrument rather than just being a "pop star" ... & a trend which might lead kids try writing their own songs rather than thinking that music is about wearing cute clothes & dancing with a headset... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 16:46:03 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: (njc) Virus alert -- pretty sure this one is valid Hi, all, A friend of mine got an e-mail yesterday from one Theresa Healy with Subject: The Puzzle Collection. She forwarded it to her hotmail account because they have a good vurus scan, and indeed it had a virus. (btw, She had no idea who this Healy person is, which is why she didn't open the puzzle attachment -- a good idea in general, n'est-ce pas?) Anyway, be alert to this name and attachment. warmly, walt Return-Path: Received: from rly-st07.mail.aol.com (rly-st07.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.18]) by air-xa04.mail.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILINXA44-1119080215; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:02:15 -0500 Received: from rly-ye05.mail.aol.com (rly-ye05.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.202]) by rly-st07.mail.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id IAA15984; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:01:27 -0500 (EST) From: Carolyn.Bray@reporters.net Received: from mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.46]) by rly-ye05.mail.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYE59-1119080108; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:01:08 -0500 Received: from carolyn-s ([12.79.101.213]) by mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20011119130107.RNQU29594.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@carolyn-s>; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 13:01:07 +0000 X-Sender: Philip_Bray@postoffice.brown.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:00:56 -0500 To: AVN8@aol.com Subject: alert-don't open attachment with Healy e-mail Cc: BLong@boscovs.com, colin@cpink.demon.co.uk, klompencor@aol.com, bray@physics.brown.edu, d07481@hotmail.com, drieper@yahoo.com, uuprovidence@aol.com, martin@holley.physics.brown.edu, jb@tinuviel.cs.wcu.edu;, jb@as220.org, KABNewport@aol.com, kmeb1@yahoo.com, source_6@juno.com, lrexroth@steelhector.com, kdejesus@yorku.ca, Kevin_DeJesus@hotmail.com, lmcenery@ric.edu, QESisQualitysBest@msn.com, marykollar@home.com, marsma@rit.edu, RhodaCarole@home.com, SophiaNan@aol.com, BigWaltinSF@aol.com, katie.julian@blacksci-asia.com.au, bridgart@optusnet.com.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: <20011119130107.RNQU29594.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@carolyn -s> Hi All, I got an e-mail yesterday from one Theresa Healy with Subject: The Puzzle Collection. I forwarded it to my hotmail account because they have a good vurus scan, and indeed it has a virus. I have no idea who this person is but don't open this attachment if you see it too. Carolyn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 13:34:56 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Small World (njc) Phyliss, I'm so sorry I couldn't make it yesterday - it was such a beautiful day and you all were at one of my favorite places! Glad you hooked up and please let me know about the next event ! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:56:49 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: virus? njc Thanks for the warning Walt. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 13:43:40 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: The Return of Singer/Songwriters NJC Kate wrote: > there really is an amazing array of talented singer/songwriters that are > (unfortunately) outside of the radar of most of the record buying, music > listening, concert going public... i doubt anyone will hear it on most > commercial radio stations This is so, so true - the really fine singer-songwriters are NOT being heard on commercial radio. What I do hear from this "genre" on commercial radio is often pretty insipid and it's no wonder it gets a bad rep overall. WHy does commerical radio do this to us? It must be some kind of conspiracy! ;-) If only there was the freedom of the old days where there were real djs who were daring enough to introduce us to all kinds of new and great music. > our very own gregg cagno is just one excellent example of great songwriting > craft, superb guitar chops, fabulous voice & engaging stage presence... Gregg was the first person who came into my mind as I started reading your post! In another age, I have no doubt that Gregg would be all over the radio. I am heartened that young people are being drawn more to this genre again because I think championing this important "root" will only raise the artistic levels of all genres all around. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:06:38 -0800 From: Richard Stevens Subject: How do I unsubscribe? Richard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:56:24 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: The Return of Singer/Songwriters NJC - --- Kate Bennett wrote: > it is so > heartening to me to > know that there seems to be a trend growing that > might lead kids into > pursuing a musical instrument rather than just being > a "pop star" Well, like, all "trend" research, this is an oversimplification of both where we've been and where we're going. For the last 20 years and esp. over the last six or so, there has been a *huge* trend among "kids" to create their own music and write their own songs with two turntables and a microphone. Whether it's taken the form of hip-hop, house, techno, or many of the other assorted forms of dance music, this assemblage of instruments (along with samplers, keyboards, etc.) has been a vital and exciting center of very real creativity. And these sounds directly influence the package that is teen pop. Acclaimed electro-dance artist BT produced several tracks on the recent N'SYNC album. The Neptunes produced that Britney song I love so much. Some teen-pop-packages are more adventurous than others, but these two artists have exploited their huge commerical appeal to expand the sonic palette for boys and girls in ways that, as these kids become older teens, often inspire them to purchase their own turntables and microphones. The rise of the turntable has meant, for a while, that many would-be teen musicians have gone this route instead of picking up a guitar. The balance of great underground music has thus shifted, at least my ears, away from guitar rock for a while and into hip-hop, R&B, and dance--or rock that includes a lot of elements from those genres. This Sam Goody survey may portend a shift back to a larger guitar presence in the great music to come. I do not think, however, that this shift also means an increase in teenage agency and creativity or in musical authenticity. My CD collection is full of great work by those in the singer-songwriter genre. But Jewel, or Michelle Branch, or Creed, or Staind, are not among them--though they are the artists these Sam Goody kids are buying, and it is their over-played tropes that will pass for "introspection" and "integrity" in these kids' minds. I see no creativity sparking from that. My CD collection is also full of great singer-songwriters who are not called singer-songwriters because they work in the R&B genre: Erykah Badu, Jill Scott, Maxwell, D'Angelo, Lauryn Hill, and the holder of the States' current #1 song, Mary J. Blige. None of these has yet played guitar on their records, though a couple are learning to. They all simply sing or rap and dance--with or without headphones--and WRITE. I don't think it was these artists Sam Goody asked about; I don't think it's these artists the youth thought of when answering. But these artists are selling like gangbusters already. The trend is already here, but it wears a black face. Could that be why it is invisible? - --Michael NP: Mary J. Blige, _No More Drama_ ===== ____________________________________________________________ "Greetings cards routinely tell us everybody deserves love. No. Everybody deserves clean water. Not everybody deserves love all the time." - --Zadie Smith, _White Teeth_ Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:22:15 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Natalie njc Alright. Enough is enough. Can we go back to dissing Jewel and Celine Dion again, please. I like Natalie Merchant. I like her alot, and I'll tell you why...as soon as I figure it out. Well, let's see... I *like* the way she dances. I like her incomparable voice. I like the sweetness and sensitivity she exudes. I like the 60's influences she mirrors. I like that she links her website to "The Nation" magazine without apology. She's a pretty good artist, too, you know? I don't find anything at all pretentious about her. I don't consider her a singer/songwriter though, 'cause as far as I know she doesn't play an instrument, which is a prerequisite for membership on that list of mine. I like the song "Jealousy." I love the way she sings "These Are the Days" from the Maniac days. I'm curious about her new release _Motherland_. I hope it's good, and if it's good, I hope it's a big success. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:53:02 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Albums sounding alike Hi, all, I was reading the latest deigest, and digressing from a discussion of Laura Nyro, Bob M. (SCjoniguy) started musing about albums sounding alike. It's been on *my* mind since TtT. In some ways, I compare DJRD to Hejira becuase they have a similar sound -- and of course, several or many of the songs on DJ had been composed during the same explosive period of creativity that had created Hejira. (I remember her singing Coyote, DJRD the song, Talk To Me and one other song from Hejira when I saw her in '76, whatever tour that was -- between Hissing and Hejira) But when TtT came out, I had the feeling that the mix or styles and tempoes was sort of a closing of a book of sorts, a summing up. And in retrospect, DJRD (the album) reminds me of that same feeling -- that there was a hodgepodge because she was ready to move on to something else. She certainly didn't stop recording, but she did move on musically. If so, we should be reassured -- she's not stopping (we know that already, of course, since she's recording, possbily as I write this -- what a nice thought!), she's just waiting to see where her muse will lead her next. Anyone else feel that way? Warmly, Walt ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #556 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?