From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #554 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, November 18 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 554 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: November 17 [les@jmdl.com] Today's Articles: November 17 [les@jmdl.com] Joni's Visual Art. [johnirving ] Re: natalie njc [PMcfad@aol.com] RE: Rikki, Natalie [Chuck Eisenhardt ] One man....(njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] NJC Re: Rikki, Natalie [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: TTT for ME ME ME ["Blair Fraipont" ] NJC Laura Nyro follow-up [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: El mundo es un pa=?ISO-8859-1?B?8Q==?=uelo [Michael Paz ] Re: Rikki, Natalie [Michael Paz ] Re: Gregg in finals (NJC) [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Joni's Visual Art. ["Kakki" ] Fwd: Best Christmas *Ever* (njc-same situation/story...) [BigWaltinSF@aol] Re: Best Christmas *Ever* (njc-same situation/story...) [Murphycopy@aol.c] Re: Today in Joni History: November 16 [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Among the Reasons God May Temporarily Be Unavailable toBless America (njc) [Randy Remote ] shooting stars/Stills in New Orleans (NJC) [Michael Paz Subject: Joni's Visual Art. Hi Debra, "...it's hard to imagine her doing sculpture considering how flat her paintings are, not the surface itself but the lack of believeable illusionistic depth. Her sense of space is very flat, which is not a criticism, just a description." Interesting to hear some conversation about Joni's painting. During my visits to the exhibit in Saskatoon, I left a note recommending the illustrator, Rob Howard to Joni. I doubt she got the note... or paid much attention to it if she did. A shame. Rob is one of the best painters around with lots of info that would help her painting. Her form painting is flat because she hasn't figured out form painting on her own -which is based entirely, well predominately- on color value. Given her impulsive nature, I can't imagine her ever having the patience to master form painting based on value. It's so by the numbers. She's so attatched to the idea of color hues as expressive content and metaphor. It's hard to believe she'd ever give up that "freedom" and start squinting for values. The rules of impressionism work great for sweeping panoramas and vistas, but they don't work for planes that are an inch or so apart. Compliments don't make form in a face. -The area she's improved with masterfully is the chromatic values of the TI paintings. Her use of titanium white to bring the values higher really kills many of the earlier paintings. It's what helps make them so flat. -Thankfully, her sharp eye is seeing how the master's did it: lighter tube colors of the same hue, and intermixing hues to make value changes. Not white. Not black. On the subject of permanence, she would do well to sell the Turbulent Indigo painting now while it commands big dollar offers. It is a gorgeous piece, truly deserving of the term 'masterpiece.' But all those slathered layers of oil rich paint (and man, there are many!!!! That painting has undulating hills and valleys almost half an inch deep in spots.) are already going through some serious deterioration. One week with Rob and she'd be the genius she already is. Speaking of genius, I just got home from a VNV Nation concert in Chicago and it was awesome beyond awesome. They're the kind of music the kids listen to, so I'm sure they're unfamiliar to most in this neck of the woods. It's a form of music verrrrry contrary to Joni's. I wonder what she would think of them. What struck me is how someone like VNV and Joni can get up on a stage, of no proportions larger than the average human being, and then by the sheer gift and brilliance of their artistry, stand larger than life. That amazes me. I hope someday to learn how to do that. John. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 05:49:00 EST From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: Re: natalie njc i like natalie and i'm not exactly sure why. i think she has deep feelings. she might be a little self centered....i'm thinking of the third track on tigerlillies. a great song but sounds like she thinks alot of herself. but i still like her. ophelia has some very dark sounds on it. i've never thought of natalie as sexy or hot. now...the chick that plays lead guitar on tigerlilly....now she's hot. she curls her lip when she bends strings and that says a lot to me. speaking of tigers....i listened to ttt this past week. i was so dissappointed when that came out. the best thing for me about that album was her self portrait because she was obviously so very happy. but this week i really liked it. i have a headset phone at work so i can walk around and pace the floor behind my desk. anyway, those phones pick up everything and i was talking to a customer on the phone and he said....is that a pipe organ playing in the background? i said...no shit, that's so funny that you said that, it's only joni's lazy guitar that sounds like a pipe organ...so anyway....you gonna book december or what? pat np. stevie nicks - sorcerer > I don't really enjoy her much anymore. I get that same feeling being > slightly annoyed. I did meet her once when she played Chastain back when > Tigerlilly came out. I talked to her for a minute about singing and tried > to quote some dr.suess lyrics. I had a big crush on her for about six > months, and kept hoping she would call me. > > Victor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:55:21 -0500 From: Chuck Eisenhardt Subject: RE: Rikki, Natalie I recall that in Rikki Lee's first appearance on national TV (Saturday Night Live) supporting the first album, she refused to sing the big hit and did 'Coolsville' instead (probably the least accessible cut on the whole album.) I don't know exactly what this says about her need to differentiate her art from that of certain other long-haired blonde pop singers, but clearly she chose to present herself in this huge first exposure with a sparse, arty, bohemian, attitude rife example rather than the poppy, full-production 'Chuck E's in Love' I love this whole album - 'Company', 'Night Train', Youngbloods' 'Last Chance Texaco'...great stuff. I think 'Company' belongs in the front rank of American songbook classics. As for Ms. Merchant I will break a cardinal rule (If you can't say something nice...') to say I can't stand her! I could never at all fathom why 10,000 Maniacs ever got airplay on MTV or on rock-format stations! It was never even close to the genre. She has what are to me really annoying vocal mannerisms which she seems to hope will stand in for style, a limited range, a playbook of identical- sounding mid-tempo navel-gazers, and some reputation for falling down in personal appearances. She was embarrassingly bad in the Concert for New York. According to the paper she made her recent Boston audience nervous by playing mostly off her just-released album (see above), mostly avoiding the familiar, and then closed the concert by starting and quickly aborting several songs after a few bars, which seemed to even upset the band. She's probably a very nice person, tho! ChuckE ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:13:42 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: One man....(njc) In case you didn't hear it in the news yesterday, one man caused the entire Hartsfield Airport to shut down and be evacuated, 10,000 people sitting outside for hours, planes rerouted, everything in havoc for most of the day when he ran past two security guards and down an up escalator and disappeared into the crowd. It turns out he was on his way to the Georgia Ole' Miss football game and was late for his flight. Unbelievable... Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:54:12 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Rikki, Natalie << According to the paper she made her recent Boston audience nervous by playing mostly off her just-released album (see above), mostly avoiding the familiar, and then closed the concert by starting and quickly aborting several songs after a few bars, which seemed to even upset the band. >> Funny you mention this, Chuck...I just had a former lister from the area that attended this show tell me how brilliant it was and offered to make me a copy of her new record. I turned him down, saying that I found her vocals to be cloying & annoying. I remember when I bought the Maniacs "The Wishing Chair", and laughed out loud listening to it because I couldn't understand a fecking word! I think I still have that record (in mint condition) if anybody's interested! ;~) Bob NP: Harry Partch, "The Dreamer That Remains" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:52:16 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: RE: TTT for ME ME ME WHen Taming LE Tigre came out I was excited mainly because it was the first new Joni Release to come out since I had become a fan in 1996.. So, I devoured it, but soon found myself a bit empty with it,, especially the half after the Title track.. But it was only 9 months later that I had made a compilation for myself and threw on "Stay in Touch" .. Somehow I really connected with the song (one of the few Joni songs I can really connect to) and started listening to the album again. If anything, it is a really good album in that the songs are all well crafted, possibly the order in which they are arranged (bar the first 3 songs in order) may have to do with it slumping off a bit. Also, there was some link that someone had sent here a while back.. maybe in August and interview with Joni in 98' or 99' and i am sure she said something to the degree, "with that album I discovered that i was playing only to make a record" That is very fuzzy and probably mostly incorrect. But that is my piece of the pie.. Blair NP-"Cocaine Decisions" Frank Zappa > >speaking of tigers....i listened to ttt this past week. i was so >dissappointed when that came out. the best thing for me about that album >was but this week i >really liked it. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:12:20 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Laura Nyro follow-up OK, I said I would give some intense listening to Tendaberry & Christmas, based on the fact that I found them to be so similar and Billy found them to be so separately unique. I listened to each disc twice, uninterrupted striaght through, and for good measure spun 'Angel In The Dark' a couple of times too. I must say FWIW I still stand by my original statement. The records came out in 1969 & 1970, so there was not a major time lapse as far as Laura's artistic growth is concerned. Both records are piano driven (duh!) and both have some stark sounding songs, some complex songs with shifting rhythms and melodic patterns, both have some songs that feature a fuller band sound, and both are peppered with Laura's catchy and more accessible songs. CATBOS has 'brown earth', 'blackpatch', and 'freeport', NYT has 'Save the Country' & 'Time & Love'. I DID learn that the guitar part on the majestic 'Beads of Sweat' is played by Duane Allman...no wonder I liked it so much! Anyway, still sounds to me like the same sessions could have produced these two records, both in terms of composition, lyrical passages, instrumentation, and production. An over-analysis probably, but an enjoyable exercise to plunge into such lovely and timeless music. Bob NP: Dave Matthews/Tim Reynolds, "Jimi Thing" 3/14/99 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:25:43 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: El mundo es un pa=?ISO-8859-1?B?8Q==?=uelo HUH??? Where I come from "El Mundo es un panuelo" is the world is a hankerchief. Where did this whole thing get started? I don't recall posting anything about the world being a hankerchief in any language. Welcome to the list Fernando. Interesting, Michael (in English saying, "please have this, little bit of instant bliss") on 11/16/01 1:02 AM, fernando.fernandez@educ.mec.es at fernando.fernandez@educ.mec.es wrote: > Hello, I write from Spain, I4m Spanish, and I must say to Michael > Paz that "el mundo es un paquelo" has no sense in Spanish. The correct one > is "el mundo es un paquelo" (the world is a handkerchief). > > Come in From The Cold > Beatles Forever ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:33:07 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Gregg in finals (NJC) YeeeeeeHaaaaaaa! Go Gregg! BEST OF LUCK TO YOU! Paz on 11/16/01 11:31 AM, Paul Castle at pdcmusic@freeuk.com wrote: > Just seen that jmdler Gregg Cagno has been chosen > as a finalist for the 2002 South Florida Folk Festival's > Singer/Songwriter Competition. > > Congratulations, Gregg - and lots of luck > > PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:48:50 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Rikki, Natalie Chuck I have to agree with you here. I am NOT big on Natalie at all. I got a promo of her new record last week and gave it a spin. The songs on the new record were more accessible for me than her past work, but I still have a hard time getting by that voice. Well I did the only honorable thing to do. I Fed Ex'ed it off to some one who thinks she is the bomb and of course THEY couldn't be happier. I am so happy to have found two new records that I really like this week. The ever popular Ryan Adams and the new Lucinda record. I reckon I'm just a little bit country. In other news Jack and I went to see Lisa Loeb (sp?) at House of Blues last night with a dear friend that came from out of town to hang for the weekend. She was really good. So sweet and i really love her voice. I had forgotten about her, but plan to catch up on her soon. The audience was pretty rude and many were talking during her set which pisses me off to no end. If people wanna chat why don't they go someplace where someone is NOT singing. Have a great weekend eveybody! Paz NP-You're Very Nice But...-Rob Jackson (NICE!) on 11/17/01 5:55 AM, Chuck Eisenhardt at chucke@tiac.net wrote: > As for Ms. Merchant I will break a cardinal rule (If you can't say something > nice...') > to say I can't stand her! I could never at all fathom why 10,000 Maniacs > ever > got airplay on MTV or on rock-format stations! It was never even close to > the > genre. She has what are to me really annoying vocal mannerisms which she > seems to hope will stand in for style, a limited range, a playbook of > identical- > sounding mid-tempo navel-gazers, and some reputation for falling > down in personal appearances. She was embarrassingly bad in the Concert > for New York. According to the paper she made her recent Boston audience > nervous by playing mostly off her just-released album (see above), mostly > avoiding the familiar, and then closed the concert by starting and quickly > aborting several songs after a few bars, which seemed to even upset the > band. > > She's probably a very nice person, tho! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 12:52:20 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Gregg in finals (NJC) In a message dated 11/17/01 12:29:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, jmichaelpaz@telocity.com writes: > YeeeeeeHaaaaaaa! Go Gregg! BEST OF LUCK TO YOU! > > Paz > > > on 11/16/01 11:31 AM, Paul Castle at pdcmusic@freeuk.com wrote: > > > Just seen that jmdler Gregg Cagno has been chosen > > as a finalist for the 2002 South Florida Folk Festival's > > Singer/Songwriter Competition. > > > > Congratulations, Gregg - and lots of luck > > > > PaulC > > > This is wonderful news Gregg! Rootin for ya. Now don't forget, besides your talent, use that charm of yours. Do that look up to ceiling and smile thingy ;~) That aughta gettem. ~rose ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:13:53 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni's Visual Art. John, Very good comments - I think you've hit an important on the head. I also think she did get your note and probably did pay attention. When she was discussing painting with Stephen and I last month, she went off into a kind of inarticulate reverie at one point, trying to describe how she has recently been experiencing the actual act of painting. In this instance she was having some difficulty communicating what she meant and was saying "you know?" a lot. It's would be easier for me to relate it in person with hand gestures as she did. ;-) Even though I can't properly or exactly relate it, what I understood her to be saying is that she was "squinting" a lot more and really getting into seeing, and practicing with, the micro aspects of form and color. The flip side of impulsiveness is great patience and it sounded like she maybe was enjoying that groove lately. Kakki > During my visits to the exhibit in Saskatoon, I left a note recommending the > illustrator, Rob Howard to Joni. I doubt she got the note... or paid much attention to it if she did. > A shame. Given her impulsive nature, I can't > imagine her ever having the patience to master form painting based on > value. It's so by the numbers. She's so attatched to the idea of color > hues as expressive content and metaphor. It's hard to believe she'd ever > give up that "freedom" and start squinting for values. The rules of > impressionism work great for sweeping panoramas and vistas, but they > don't work for planes that are an inch or so apart. Compliments don't > make form in a face. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 13:26:48 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Best Christmas *Ever* (njc-same situation/story...) << In a message dated 11/16/01 10:29:20 PM, Bob Murphy (referring to the Best Crhistmas Ever/Louise story I forwarded to the list) wrote: << but I thought this story ACTUALLY HAPPENED to Colin >> Don't feel bad -- several people I sent this to -- exactly one from the list, and at least one from outside the list -- thought the same thing -- and suggested I embark on a writing career -- not realizing that I am the Editor of the (non-existent) "Bitter Unpublished Wrtiers Weekly". btw, I think you look more like a Patrick O'Callahan than a Bob Murphy, but mom and I never did see eye to eye on such things. hugs, walt Return-path: From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Full-name: BigWaltinSF Message-ID: <73.162cd74f.292804f8@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 13:22:48 EST Subject: Re: Best Christmas *Ever* (njc-same situation/story...) To: Murphycopy@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 147 In a message dated 11/16/01 10:29:20 PM, Murphycopy writes: << but I thought this story ACTUALLY HAPPENED to Colin >> Don't feel bad -- at least one person I sent this to -- exactly one from the list, and at least one from outside the list -- thought the same thing -- and suggested I embark on a writing career -- not realizing that I am the Editor of the non-existent "Bitter Unpublished Wrtiers Weekly". btw, I think you look more like a Patrick O'Callahan than a Bob Murphy, but mom and I never did see eye to eye on such things. hugs, walt ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 13:33:55 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Best Christmas *Ever* (njc-same situation/story...) In a message dated 11/17/01 1:29:59 PM, BigWaltinSF@aol.com writes: << I am the Editor of the (non-existent) "Bitter Unpublished Wrtiers Weekly". >> Ah, Walt . . . maybe your spelling has something to do with that. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 13:52:12 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Today in Joni History: November 16 les@jmdl.com wrote: > On November 16 in Joni Mitchell History: > > 1975: A phone call was placed to someone involved in the Rolling Thunder Review, inviting them to drop by the Tuscarora Indian Reservation located near the US side of Niagra Falls. Many of the group, including Joni, Dylan, and Eric Anderson, showed up at the Reservation's Community House. Robert Shelton wrote "Song swapping between this troupe and the Indians reached some intense moments: Tuscaroroa's did traditional songs and dances to drum beating." I saw this show. It was the opening of the Niagara Falls Convention Center. People were walking all around like they were at a festival and chatting up. When Joni came on it was all so distracting. These two behind me were talking away about some term paper. I'm normally very laid back but I asked them to stop talking so I could hear Joni. She was singing Coyote if I remember correctly. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 14:00:25 EST From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Re: Best Christmas *Ever* (njc-same situation/story...) In a message dated 11/17/01 10:29:59 AM, BigWaltinSF@aol.com writes: > >Don't feel bad -- several people I sent this to -- exactly one from the >list, >and at least one from outside the list -- thought the same thing -- and > >suggested I embark on a writing career Hello, I'm the one from the list! Fessing up, Mary People hurry by so quickly Don't they hear the melodies In the chiming and the clicking And the laughing harmonies - - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:20:16 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: "Christmas with Louise" njc >>> But here's the kicker, as we say in the ad biz - -- I don't know how much eggnog I had in me when I read it last year, but I thought this story ACTUALLY HAPPENED to Colin (or whoever posted it).<<< yes, & as i remember it, there were a few who believed jimmy was an olympic skater also...lol ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:44:30 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Among the Reasons God May Temporarily Be Unavailable toBless America (njc) 11. Because God is the ultimate absentee landlord. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 22:45:52 EST From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: Re: NJC Laura Nyro follow-up ? ? ? I still can't imagine what you were/are hearing Bob, but I appreciate your effort. Specifically, do you think LOTC & Blue sound like they were from the same sessions? Or Blue & FTR, or FTR & C&S, or C&S & THOSL, or THOSL & Hejira? These all sound completely different to me... Nyro's NYT sounds more like "Angel In The Dark" than CATBOS. Roy Halee's dark, spare, intense production soundscape on NYT is nothing like Arif Mardin's lavishly tempered approach on CATBOS. As different as daylight and dark to my ears. Her profound yet economic lyrical style on NYT is also completely reversed on Xmas in a much more laid-back, wordy, less original way---and, as much as I adore CATBOS, it's hardly recognizable as the work of the same author. I'll try to explain... For example (you asked for examples), she often 'invented' words, names and phrases on Eli & NYT (unlike anyone else in popular music--Joni included), but on CATBOS she retreats into much more conventional, sometimes almost ordinary lyrical territory. Comparing her classic trilogy, CATBOS reveals some of her weakest compositions over-all ("Blackpatch," "Brown Earth," and "When I Was A Freeport And You Were The Main Drag" come to mind, as much as I love even those weaker moments). Anyhoo, I'm still glad you took a second listen. I think with Laura Nyro you either totally grasp the incomparable brilliance of it all, or else you're simply, merely impressed. Cheers, Billy NP--"Patty Waters Sings" by Patty Waters, 1965 ESP Disk-Calibre ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 22:12:46 -0700 From: "shane mattison" Subject: joni photos newest photo for my jonigallery: y'all come... http://www.angelfire.com/art/cactussong/cactusjoniblue.html shane ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 02:01:57 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: shooting stars/Stills in New Orleans (NJC) On this night for gazing at the stars on my way home from a gig, my pal Jack (a limo driver/singer-songwriter) called me to tell me he was picking up Stills at the airport. I drove out to meet him on my way home just in time to see him picking up Steven. Apparently he was invited by the owner of the Colts to come in for the football game tomorrow. Jack was elated to be picking up one of our heros. We are in the process of working on his album which should be out early next year. I hope he played some of the demos for him. He is a very talented songwriter and one of my oldest friends and inspirations. I just came in from outside watching the star show and had to share with you guys. Hope everyone has a good night and gets to see the show. Peace Michael Paz ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #554 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?