From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #549 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, November 15 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 549 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Tr: John & Beverley Martin, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] good news on a grey day (njc) ["Ron Greer" ] Re: Billy K's list NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] Re: Billy K's list NJC [colin ] Fw: A Don Con Christmas 2001(covers Joni Mitchell River) ["Victor Johnson] Re: Billy's list - now njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Fw: A Don Con Christmas 2001(covers Joni Mitchell River) [SCJoniGuy@a] RE: good news on a grey day (njc) [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #353 [Jerry Notaro ] Joni in Film NJC [Steve Polifka ] Re: Joni in Film [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni in Film [Steve Polifka ] Joni on Hinton [Les Irvin ] What Is An American? [Rhymes46@aol.com] Re: Joni on Hinton [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Joni in Film [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Joni in Film [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] I'm back, too.....and pedophilia (njc) [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Re: BSN - Life As A House [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Joni in Film [Steve Polifka ] Joni in Film [Steve Polifka ] Re: Joni in Film [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Billy's list-some additional comments [Wtking59@cs.com] Re: Joni in Film [Steve Polifka ] Benvenuto a JMDL [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Re: I'm back, too.....and pedophilia (njc) [colin ] Re: Joni in Film [Steve Polifka ] (njc) just curious [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Re: What Is An American? [Rhymes46@aol.com] Re: Joni in Film [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Benvenuto a JMDL [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Benvenuto a JMDL [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: (njc) just curious [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Joni in Film [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Joni in Film [Steve Polifka ] Re: Billy's list-some additional comments [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni in Film [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Suzanne Vega / Live on 92.5 now - Boston (NJC) [Scott and Jody ] Re: Ryan Adams NJC [Les Irvin ] patrice chereau's new movie NJC ["Wally Kairuz" Subject: Tr: John & Beverley Martin, NJC > > From: "Paul Castle" < > > > I was trying to find a copy of John and Beverley Martyn's > > album 'Stormbringer' today after seeing John Martyn on > > several deserts. Hi Paul, Just came back from London and saw both John Martyn's first 2 CDs, including Stormbringer, at the Tower Records which is right across from Kensington High tube station. I guess they must have been re-released. Anyway, could you please let me know next time John plays in London so I'll hop over. Thanks Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:55:11 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: good news on a grey day (njc) Hi >>Anne wrote >>Well, I just got back from meeting with the surgeon. All of the pathology >>reports (except the one we already knew was malignant) came back showing no >>cancer cells. the god of the squirrels was obviously pleased with your offering :-) just kidding,,,,,,,,,,, wonderful news. Ron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:27:43 +0100 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re: Billy K's list NJC >>Yoko Ono's latest "Blueprint For A Sunrise." Surely the hardest rocking 68 year old around.<< Four times a week I get off the bus at the stop near the office I teach at. Near the stop there are posters with a picture of Yoko Ono advertising her new show (or retrospective?) which is on here for four months. She doesn't look 68 in the photo, but maybe it's not recent. Right next to her picture is a 'musical bar' called (wouldn't you know it) 'Imagine'. Small world (or 'el mundo es un paquelo' as we say here: the world is a handkerchief). mike in storm lashed barcelona. (Sr. Paz, the beach in Tossa was washed away last week, maybe you better run with the Honduras idea). NP Walking on thin ice: written by yoko, sung by elvis Costello ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:52:29 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Billy K's list NJC > the beach in Tossa was washed away > last week, okay i know I am a big child and it probably isn't pronounced the way it is spelt, but this made me giggle. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:20:00 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Fw: A Don Con Christmas 2001(covers Joni Mitchell River) > Cogtone Records of Alamosa, Colorado, is pleased to introduce a special > holiday CD-single by Don Conoscenti: "A Don Con Christmas 2001." > > Recorded late last month in Chicago, the disc offers a stunning interpretation > of Joni Mitchell's song "River" along with a moving version of the traditional > anthem to finding peace, with the past and within oneself, "Auld Lang Syne." > In addition, an original instrumental, "Black Hills" wraps up a very special > Christmas tradition for children of all ages. > > Don decided to record the single after he was invited to participate in the > NPR holiday broadcast produced by WKSU-FM, "Ornaments and Icing." He recorded > a chilling version of the John Lennon and Yoko Ono song "Happy Xmas (War is > Over)" exclusively for the special then returned to the studio to create a > little something extra. > > The single is expected to be ready for shipping around Thanksgiving and will > be available in concerts and at http://www.donconoscenti.com > > > Best, > Vera > vera@donconoscenti.com Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson > _______________________________________________ > folkmusic mailing list > folkmusic@grassyhill.org > http://grassyhill.org/folkmusic ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:25:07 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Billy's list - now njc <> While I'm sure that Joni digs that whole record (and makes it a point to say as much), she picked the other Captain (For Dark Mornings) for her Top 12. (Sorry to pick such a teeny nit, Kakki...) I was late coming to both NYT and CATBOS (via a 1998 discussion of them on this list), and see them as virtual companion pieces. I don't see how you could choose one over the other, really...they sound to me like it could have been a double album. Also, I don't see how anyone can say that Joni influenced Rickie Lee Jones...RLJ is such an obvious disciple of Laura there's no discussion. Bob, (also a big Spitfire fan, Mark) NP: The Beatles, "From Me To You" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:34:13 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Fw: A Don Con Christmas 2001(covers Joni Mitchell River) Thanks for the info, Victor...Steve Dulson sent this notice to me earlier this week, so I've plugged it into the database. Next step, sweet talk Vera into a copy! ;~) Bob NP: The Beatles, "Eight Days A Week" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:41:55 -0500 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: good news on a grey day (njc) >> That's the kind of news I like to hear! That and the fact that those 8 people have been rescued from Afghanistan. Way to go, Anne! Yes, amazing! Miracles do happen. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:44:07 -0500 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: good news on a grey day (njc) >> the god of the squirrels was obviously pleased with your offering :-) That's one of the funniest things I've ever read :-) ROTFLMAO Thanks Ron! lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:51:07 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Speaking of Afghanistan...(njc) I was talking to a freind over dinner last night, and we were talking about the Taliban's retreat and how men were rushing to get their beards cut off, and how music was being was being played again...my friend John said: "Now that they're playing music again, we've got to make sure they play the GOOD stuff, like Joni Mitchell & The Beatles!" That sure sounded great to hear! Bob NP: The Beatles, "Paperback Writer" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:25:48 EST From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #353 Does anyone know what Joni thought of the Hinton book? People seem to be really down on it .... why so much? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 06:46:29 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Billy's list - now njc > Also, I don't see how anyone can say that Joni influenced Rickie Lee Jones...RLJ is such an obvious disciple of Laura there's no discussion. I said as much way back when just about everybody I knew was playing 'Pirates' all the time. That record in particular has strong echoes of Laura, imo. Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:47:00 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #353 StDoherty@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone know what Joni thought of the Hinton book? People seem to be > really down on it .... why so much? Because there were so many factual errors in it. I don't think Joni ever expressed any opinion on the book, at least not publicly...... Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 07:10:58 -0800 (PST) From: CHRIS TREACY Subject: Suzanne Vega Show NJC Greetings - Just thought I'd pipe in about the Suzanne Vega show I saw here at Berkeley (in Boston) last night. I haven't seen her since the 99.9 tour, and she was awesome! It's so nice to go see some dependable talent these days... She opened with "Marlena...", and then paused to explain that 6 months ago she broke her hand (!!) so she was only able to play her own guitar parts on 6 or 7 tunes. The gentleman who plays guitar for her did a bangup job, playing both his parts, her parts, and managing a spectrum of foot petals which triggered samples. I was really hoping she'd get through the set without doing "Luka," but she did it towards the end. I guess I'm just bummed that of all the great songs she's written, this is the one that made the top 10. "Left of Center" was performed just vocal and bassline, and "Rock in This Pocket" was particularly charged. I sorely missed the inclusion of "Birthday" and "World Before Columbus", but she stopped mid-set and did a reading from her book (the amusing short story "Millie") which made up for thar in spades. All in all, a great show, chock full of new material. For those skeptical, I must say that "Songs in Red & Grey" is a wonderful SV disc - poignant poetry with pop sensibilities. Get yourself a copy! - -Chris NP: 99.9 - SV Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:12:34 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Joni in Film NJC Hi, I have always wondered why the Mitch never went into film. Not to do what Striesand did- (but that would have been interesting- hmm...) I mean she's photogenic, has a great speaking voice, could write, direct and act and do the score. (Hell, she could just start her own production company...) After waiting almost 20 years to se LOVE (in which Joan's and 2 other segments are the only good ones in the whole darn thing) She had it going on- totally. And what about those movie themes she wrote? Will those ever surface? I know she wrote one in 74- she mentions it in her Time Mag interview- and she mentioned that she wrote several themes again in Toronto at her tribute. To see her now, she could still do it. "I'm ready for my close up, JMDL..." LOL... Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:26:27 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in Film <> Film-making is a time-consuming process. I don't see as she ever had the time block necessary to pull it off. Besides, if she's opposed to the MUSIC industry BS, what would be her reaction to the HOLLYWOOD system. Also, she's a control freak (I don't mean that in a bad way) and film-making can be a very co-dependent process most of the time, from what I can imagine. Bob NP: The Beatles, "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:56:10 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: Joni in Film At 11:26 AM 11/15/01 EST, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: >Also, she's a control freak (I don't mean that in a bad way) and film-making can be a very co-dependent process most of the time, from what I can imagine. > >Bob Well Bob, So is doing an album, especially if you are in a band and have producers. A few of her projects were not her own, much to her dismay. Dog Eat Dog, for one. Even though she has been self-sufficient, motivated and actualizing, I can't imagine that she got these projects finished overnight. Also, she had to write her own material. So in the 70's she was a songwriting machine, whipping out a project almost every year for 10 years. Now the songwriting had slowed down in the 80's and 90's and we had to wait THREE WHOLE YEARS between projects to be graced with her voice and imagery. I bet a film could have been made in the time frame that she did an album. Just my 2 cents, Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:00:11 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Joni on Hinton At 07:25 AM 11/15/2001, StDoherty@aol.com wrote: >Does anyone know what Joni thought of the Hinton book? People seem to be >really down on it .... why so much? When I was fortunate enough to be in her presence a few years, she said to me: Joni: "Have you read that new book about me?" Les: "The one by Brian Hinton? Yeah it's not too good..." Joni: "No! It's horrible! HORRIBLE!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:37:45 EST From: Rhymes46@aol.com Subject: What Is An American? I received this from a friend in Montevideo, Uruguay, this morning. Thought I would share it with the list. I don't know the author's name. Linda - ---------------- What Is An American? You probably missed it in the rush of news last week, but there was actually a report that someone in Pakistan had published in a newspaper there an offer of a reward to anyone who killed an American, any American. So I just thought I would write to let them know what an American is, so they would know when they found one. An American is English, or French, or Italian, Irish, German, Spanish, Polish, Russian or Greek. An American may also be African, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Australian, Iranian, Asian, or Arab or Pakistani, or Afghan. An American may also be a Cherokee, Osage, Blackfoot, Navaho, Apache, or one of the many other tribes known as native Americans. An American is Christian, or he could be Jewish, or Buddhist, or Muslim. In fact, there are more Muslims in America than in Afghanistan. The only difference is that in America they are free to worship as each of them choose. An American is also free to believe in no religion. For that he will answer only to God, not to the government, or to armed thugs claiming to speak for the government and for God. An American is from the most prosperous land in the history of the world. The root of that prosperity can be found in the Declaration of independence, which recognizes the God-given right of each man and woman to the pursuit of happiness. An American is generous. Americans have helped out just about every other nation in the world in their time of need. When the Soviet army overran Afghanistan 20 years ago, Americans came with arms and supplies to enable the people to win back their country. As of the morning of September 11, Americans had given more than any other nation to the poor in Afghanistan. An American does not have to obey the mad ravings of ignorant, ungodly, cruel, old men! American men will not be fooled into giving up their lives to kill innocent people, so that these foolish old men may hold on to power. American women are free to show their beautiful faces to the world, as each of them choose. An American is free to criticize his government's officials when they are wrong, in his or her own opinion. Then he is free to replace them, by majority vote. Americans welcome people from all lands, all cultures, all religions, because they are not afraid. They are not afraid that their history, their religion, their beliefs, will be over run, or forgotten. That is because they know they are free to hold to their religion, their beliefs, their history, as each of them choose. And just as Americans welcome all, they enjoy the best that everyone has to bring, from all over the world. They have the best science, the best technology, the best products, the best books, the best music, the best food, and the best athletes. Americans welcome the best, but they also welcome the least. The national symbol of America welcomes your tired and your poor, the wretched refuse of your teeming shores, the homeless, tempest tossed. These in fact are the people who built America. Many of them were working in the twin towers on the morning of September 11, earning a better life for their families. So you can try to kill an American if you must. Hitler did. So did General Tojo, Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung, and every bloodthirsty tyrant in the history of the world. But in doing so you would just be killing yourself. Americans are not a particular people from a particular place. They are the embodiment of the human spirit of freedom. Everyone who holds to that spirit, everywhere, is an American. So look around you. You may find more Americans in your land than you thought were there. One day they will rise up and overthrow the old, ignorant, tired tyrants that trouble too many lands. Then those lands too will join the community of free and prosperous nations. And America will welcome them! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:52:14 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on Hinton In a message dated 11/15/01 12:03:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > When I was fortunate enough to be in her presence a few years, she said to > me: > > Joni: "Have you read that new book about me?" > Les: "The one by Brian Hinton? Yeah it's not too good..." > Joni: "No! It's horrible! HORRIBLE!" > > > Well I guess that settles that! lol rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:59:09 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in Film In a message dated 11/15/01 11:59:08 AM, polifkas@milwaukee.tec.wi.us writes: << I bet a film could have been made in the time frame that she did an album. Just my 2 cents >> I agree with Muller on this one, Steve. It's not just a matter of time, it's the whole team effort part of movie making that Joni would not enjoy. Even if she can write, act, direct and score, but she would still need to depend on lots of others for lighting, sound, make-up, wardrobe, set design, etc. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:00:30 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in Film <> We're on the same track...what I meant to imply was that she was SO into the music there just wasn't time for a film project. And I would suggest that the 70's were her most prolific period. She's just not as inspired anymore to write songs, but you know the one thing to be sure of with Joni is that there's NOTHING to be sure of! ;~) I wonder why she's never gotten into sculpture...as much as she enjoys the visual arts and HAS remained inspired with her painting, it seems to me like she would have branched out into some other media. Maybe she could become another Dr. Junk! Bob NP: The Beatles, "I Want You" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:14:12 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: I'm back, too.....and pedophilia (njc) Hi, all, I've only been a jmdler for about 10 weeks, so I don't know if my absence was noticed, but I haven't been able to get to my computer for about 10 days (houseguests staying -- mostly *sleeping* -- in the room with the computer, so I couldn't use it without disturbing them), and I'm way behind on the digests -- and I wasn't in Paris ;-)-- but in any case, I'm back, too. I wanted to add to colin's comments about pedophilia. I thought they were apt. And I have some first-hand experience of the damage it *can* have long-term. When I was 5 and my sister 4, we were both molested to various extents by the elder brother (and to a lesser extent, the elder sister) of our best friends; god knows how long it had been going on with our *friends*, who lived with these... sick *&^%$#@! twerps. In any case, it all was brought out into the open when I came home one day with my underwear stained and on backwards, and my mother was alerted. It was all quietly taken care of -- at first my friends' parents were disbelieving, but I guess the evidence was compelling. Shortly after, the folks in question left town, with their children (which meant, of course, including our best friends). Here's the interesting (to me) part. My sister and I both just forgot about it -- maybe that's the best that can be hoped for. It came back to me when I was 17 or 18. I had some odd dreams, and I asked my parents about it, and they confirmed that it had all happened. As far as we could tell, my sister didn't remember any of it. [For what it's worth, neither my parents nor I believe(d) that the molestation was the "cause" of my being gay; I just am, probably was "born" or genetically headed that way -- "it" runs on both sides of the family.] It later turned out that while I was the greater target (especially of the older boy), my sister was the one with scars. She's neurotic in more ways that we can count, unable to make or maintain relationships with men, and has only non-sexually expressed relationships with women, mostly gay ones, although she professes to be sexually attracted only to men. When she entered therapy sometime in the early 90's, she apparently began to remember some aspects of what had happened -- and became convinced *my father or me* had been the perpetrator of these horrible attacks. She spoke to no-one in the family for at least five years. She only came around when my father was dying two years ago, and during a discussion at that time, I asked her if she remembered what had been done to us way back when. She was stunned. Her "recovered memories" (which by then were falling out of favor) hadn't been completely artificial, she and /or her therapist had just drawn the wrong conclusions from her incomplete memories. I think I came out unscarred, but I'm furious when I think what's been done to my sister's life, and how it even indirectly removed *her* from *our* lives. I'm sorry to return on such a sour note. I've had a delightful (if exhausting) two weeks or so, and I want to talk about the wonderful jmdl g et-together some of us had in SF about a week ago -- but in another posting - -- I don't want to contaminate it with this topic. Warm feelings to you all, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:26:06 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN - Life As A House Mark wrote: > How is 'Life As A House'? I've been seeing a lot of ads for this > movie. Anybody else seen it? I agree that Kevin Kline is very > talented. He's also very skilled in comedy. It was a REAL tearjerker, contrived, but wonderful! I really enjoyed it a lot, and it was a very pleasant surprise to hear Joni. The score was good, and definitely added to the extra- Kleenex response. Two thumbs up from me! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:26:36 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: Joni in Film At 01:00 PM 11/15/01 EST, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: >I wonder why she's never gotten into sculpture...as much as she enjoys the visual arts and HAS remained inspired with her painting, it seems to me like she would have branched out into some other media. Maybe she could become another Dr. Junk! > >Bob Some of her work has been mixed media as I recall (not counting the cat pee on the Rain Barrel painting...) ;-) That is an interesting question. Maybe her health and time constraints again come into play here. Or maybe she has done some sculpting. Although I can't imagine her having someone holding up pieces of metal for her to weld into place...lol. (Well, now that I think about it-lol) You can always go back to a painting if it is unfinished, or you are frustrated with it, but can you go back to a song? (Okay, Two Grey Rooms not withstanding.) I have a whole CD of what I call 'Unfinished Business'. Songs that i never finished- complete orchestrations with no words or melody. But my friend Yolanda took one of the songs and put lyrics and a melody to it and it is quite beautiful. Alot of musicians who have told me the same thing happen. When you are hot on it, or inspired, it seems to come together magically, but when there is a big gap in time, it's like the momentum is lost and your never going to get there. And you have an unfinished piece. And you listen to it and listen to it and it has such potential... So Joni must have a few pof these laying around. I mean, look at some oif the early versions of All I Want and other songs that we have heard. She kept on these and kept them alive. She waw and felt the potential not to let these ideas die and to actually let them become something greater than what they started as- lyrically, that is. Now what this has to do with sculpture is beyond me...sorry for the digression-LOL Steve Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:28:39 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Joni in Film At 12:59 PM 11/15/01 EST, you wrote: Since this is 'guesses at most...' I wonder how she enjoyed doing LOVE. I was short, but had all the elememts of a full film. I'm sure she's thought about it. She has contacts and friends in every aspect in life- I'm sure some of them are in the film industry- Jack Nicholson, for one, and how about Angelica Houston and Susan Sarandon- (Yes, they are all actors, but who knows who else she knows?) Anything is possible- especially when it comes to Joni Mitchell. So Smurph, I still disagree. However, since she has not done a film and is fed up with the whiney white kids and record executives, it is a safe bet that you are probably on the money... Hugs, Steve >In a message dated 11/15/01 11:59:08 AM, polifkas@milwaukee.tec.wi.us writes: > ><< I bet a film could have been made in the time frame that she did an album. >Just my 2 cents >> > >I agree with Muller on this one, Steve. It's not just a matter of time, it's >the whole team effort part of movie making that Joni would not enjoy. Even if >she can write, act, direct and score, but she would still need to depend on >lots of others for lighting, sound, make-up, wardrobe, set design, etc. > > --Bob > > Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:41:00 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in Film <> Joni alludes to doing that early on...she introduces "Mr. Blue" as a song that was made up from unfinished fragments, the most notorious was the line from a song she called "The Gambler": "In a day or two, I'll be laying you... (delay) Odds" I don't know how much of that was true and how much was part of her act. She also tells Johnny Cash when she was on his show in the 60's that she had written about a hundred songs. That's the stuff that intrigues me the most! Bob NP: The Beatles, "The Continuing Story of Bungalow Bill" (demo) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:42:58 EST From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: Billy's list-some additional comments You're right, Bob. Joni picked "Captain For Dark Mornings" (from Nyro's NYT'berry) rather than "Captain St. Lucifer." The former, along with "Tom Cat Goodby" (Laura's spelling) and the title track remain my absolute favorites from that masterpiece of an album. Searing brilliance from start to finish. However, I disagree (as a longtime Nyro-nut) that "NYT" & "Xmas" sound like they could have come from the same record. They sound nothing alike to me. If you love Joni, you should really try to immerse yourself in Laura. It's so hard for me to pick one over the other since I truly believe Nyro accomplished things even Joni never did. And Kakki--I agree that Joni's "For The Roses" is on a par (and perhaps a bit similar) with "NYT." As you stated, both are very deep--and endlessly rewarding. To me, they're maybe even more alike than even "NYT" & "Xmas." As you can tell, I absolutely adore Laura Nyro. If you haven't done so in the past, please spend some study time with "NYT'berry." Let's just hope the officials with the R&R Hall of Fame come to their senses soon and promptly induct Laura Nyro. The true female counterpart to Bob Dylan--in oh so many ways. And, yes. Rickie Lee Jones really seemed to cop much more from Laura than Joni. One reason I've never been too hip on Rickie was that IMO she was always a second-rate Nyro (sorry Wally). She never really had the true poetic originality that Laura possessed, and musically was much more conventional and far less adventurous than Laura. A bit of a poser to me, even though she picked a great one to copy. In a word, overrated. I'd rather hear an original like Laurie Anderson or Patti Smith any day. BTW Bob, the new remastered version of "Under The Big Black Sun" by X includes their subsequent single version of Otis Blackwell's classic "Breathless" (the old Jerry Lee Lewis hit), which is X without the art--with a positively killer guitar solo by Billy Zoom. A glorious, dizzying moment that should have been a massive hit in a perfect world. And sorry Mark. Didn't mean to dismiss Blondie's "Parallel Lines," but I still much prefer the polished beauty of "Eat To The Beat." Yes, "Shayla" and "Union City Blue" are great songs, but so is "Dreaming"--not to mention the rave-up's "Living In The Real World" (companion piece to "Dreaming") and the title track. It was virtually ignored in the states, and overshadowed at the time by their massive, banal single "Call Me." Their next record, "Autoamerican" was pretty dismal. Rather like "The Hissing..." coming after the stunning "Court And Spark." (sorry Hissing fans. don't clobber me too hard on this one.) And I'm glad you like Starship's "St. Charles" as well. Another "Spitfire" song, "Dance With The Dragon" is fabulous too. After this record, they went down the toilet fast. Whew! Finally finished. Thanks for bearing with me here. I love reading everyone's posts every morning...and finally had to jump in after reading "Bel-Air." And hang in there Anne. I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's Lymphoma Cancer in 1998 and underwent chemo and radiation for almost a year. Overwhelming, yes. But you'll get through. They've made remarkable strides with treatments in recent years. Just muster up all the strength, courage and support you can, and have lots of faith. You'll make it, and hopefully come out better than ever! Maybe I'll make it to a Jonifest one day. It really looks (and reads) like a blast. XXXOOO, Billy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:49:53 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: Joni in Film At 01:41 PM 11/15/01 EST, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: ><> > >Joni alludes to doing that early on...she introduces "Mr. Blue" as a song that was made up from unfinished fragments, the most notorious was the line from a song she called "The Gambler": > >"In a day or two, >I'll be laying you... >(delay) >Odds" > >I don't know how much of that was true and how much was part of her act. She also tells Johnny Cash when she was on his show in the 60's that she had written about a hundred songs. That's the stuff that intrigues me the most! > >Bob I forgot all about that! I was thinking more along the lines of the last few years. Those early songs would be quite the find, eh Bob??? LOL! Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:56:49 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Benvenuto a JMDL Marco, Non parlo italiano molto bene, ma vorrei dire "benvenuto" a JMDL. La persona chi e "archivista" (?) per noi e Bob Muller . Si tu hai questioni riguardo alla musica di Joni, lui sabbra le riposte. (Ma non so si lui parla italiano!) Anche, non so si ci sono altre "JMDLers" chi parlono -- imagino che ci sono-- ma tu puoi sempre contactarmi quando vuoi. (Mi pare che parli inglese bene -- chissa non hai bisogno di traduttore?) Ciao, Walt Breen (For those jmdlers who speak even less Italian than I do, I just basically said welcome, that Bob Muller is our "archivist" and that there almost *has* to be someone in jmdl-land who speaks better Italian than I do, but maybe he doesn't need a translator anyway.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 18:58:17 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: I'm back, too.....and pedophilia (njc) Walt-I noticed you were not posting. I get the feeling I am not your cup of tea, but for what it is worth, we do have more in common than you perhaps think. I was abused many times during my childhood. By my parents, by a school teacher who was a child pornographer, by total strangers. Seems rather a lot doesn't it? One reason why i believed oiyt was my fault for many years. How could it happen so many times? Simple. i was abused by my parents(my brother swears he saw my father rape me but I don't recall that-I just recall his nastiness and his fists. My mother was just as nasty and inappropriate in her touching and comments) and was therfore 'set up' to be victimised again and again. I was frightened of adults and was very desperate to be a good boy, so i did whatever an adult told me. it would not have occurred to me to do otherwise. This went on way into my own adulthood. I had no conception of what boundaries were, let alone felt I had any. I 'voluntarily' had sex plenty of times as an adult because I could not say no and because I numbed out and therefore could not do anything for myself. I was the subject lots of times (like thru school) to physical abuse becasue my reaction was to 'numb out' and not react in anyway-I just stood there whilst I was hit or kicked and spat on. ALL my relationships with people suffered. i had totally inapporopriate 'friends', i was easily manipulated and treated badly and taken advantage of. i didn't recognize any of that then. I just believed it was my fault if you treated me badly. I must have been bad. I was very fortunate to have met John almost 21 years ago. During most of our relationship I was confused by him and convinced he must have some ulterior motive, that he was a closet psycho. I just couldn't believe he loved me. Spiritually too, I was stuffed. I was taught God hated me, I was very bad and destined for Hell. A very real fear for me that really came to the fore in therapy. I was terrified. I was finally telling and truly believed I would be struck down dead and pushed into that fire. I fell apart completely. Honour thy Mother and they Father. Well telling on them wasn't honouring them so I knew I was evil.Plus I knew I was anyway because if my own parenst hated me then I must be bad. Unlike your sister, I didn't forget anything. I just didn't feel anything. I remember precisely when i stopped feeling. I witnessed my best childhood friend killed before my eyes when i was 7. It was a racially nmitvated killing. He was half japanese and I half spanish so we were 'wogs' and were bullied all the time. he was killed during one of these attacked. I KNOW people can repress memories because i have no recollection at all of the actaul death. I know I was there. it was in the papers. the front page headline was 'THE BOY WHO DIED OF HATE' I remember clearly the paper. I remeber when asked who the boy was on the front page I said 'me'. I wa asked because I had not spoken about it. To this day i don't remember him or the incident. anyway so i stopped feeling until June 26th 1994 when the dam burst. Very very scary. I fell into the darkness and had no choice but travel thru it. I'd rather die than repeat that. I am glad it happened. I have learned a lot of things-mainly that i believed a lot of nonsense, that my world view was corrupted. I believed I was evil, stupid and worthless. I had not felt anger or rage toward anybody ever because I never realised that i didn't deserve what happened. i knew what had been done to me was bad but I believed 'i drove them to it'. So now I knew a new feeling and I hated it-anger and rage. i also knew shame like never before. How could I have been so gutless and stupid? How could I have let this happen to me? I still struggle with that feeling today. i cringe inside when I recall the stuff I have let people do to me, the so called friends who used me, who didn't give a toss about my feelings. I have spent so long trying to forgive my abusers and only recently have relaised that i have been barking up the wrong tree. it is me I need to forgive. I just don't know how. The list has helped me greatly over the last 4 years. Thru the many lovely people I have met amnd thru those not so lovely. I have learend I can express myself. I have learned that many people are screwed up and behave badly and don't think about it. I once got into a spat with a person. I for the first time, told them precisely what i thought of them - that they were cruel, hypocritical and other things. i believed every word and still do. This person passes themselves off as highly moral and a good xtian and is no longer on the list(i think) but still writes to my friends telling them what a bad person I am! I guess I really pushed some buttons for them. So anyway, life is often a struggle, confusion and doubt are constant companions. I ofetn wish I hadn't written something somthing or other, that i would keep my gob shut. But having been quiet most of my life I find that rather difficult now!!!! I know I piss people off. I am too forthright. and too honest. perhaps I still don't get the boundary thing. I truly believe tho that i take care the best I can not to be nasty to people. I do not name call. not that it makes any difference really. People read what they want to read and feel what they feel. Sometimes I feel i should not be open at all about my life but then I think to myself that it might help someone(and I know it has from the mail i get) and besides,it was silence and secrecy that nearly destroyed me. Sorry this was so long Walt. Some post just set me off and i off i go on a roll and spew. i fyou reply, please do so only to me as this was apersoanl reply. take care colin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:58:12 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: Joni in Film At 01:41 PM 11/15/01 EST, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: >She also tells Johnny Cash when she was on his show in the 60's that she had written about a hundred songs. That's the stuff that intrigues me the most! > >Bob This brings up one other thing I worry about. In 20 years I can just see you peddling Joni's rarities on Gamma Disc- "See", Bob says on his webfo- mercial. "I have 16 different versions of Little David on this disc- I especially like the one where she stops in the middle and coughs... I swear you can hear Chuck Mitchell in the background ordering a beer..." "And then there are the ultra-ultra rare recordings- demo's even- of some movie themes she wrote some years back. I have them all, I tell you. You can get any and every possible version of any of her songs from me. Live, studio, you name it, I have it. "Oh, listen to this! if you order any disc right now, I will give you the complete boxed set of her covers- that's right, a complete 2,689 song set of others doing Joni Mitchell covers..." (Somebody stop me...) Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:06:41 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: (njc) just curious Wally K. wrote: I've never read any of Casual Sex's stuff. Was s/he a contemprorary of Edith Wharton's? just curious :-) Walt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:07:25 EST From: Rhymes46@aol.com Subject: Re: What Is An American? You're welcome. Yes, you may forward it to others. Linda ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:09:08 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in Film <> Well, we've got a bunch of them already...I'm certainly grateful for what we DO have! I never would have imagined that they existed until I joined this wacky lot! As for the rest, a fella can dream, can't he? :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:12:06 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Benvenuto a JMDL <> I'm no archivist...I'm just a dude with a CD burner and a good attitude! :~) "Anarchist" might be more accurate! Bob NP: The Beatles, "Child of Nature" (demo) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:12:08 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Benvenuto a JMDL <> I'm no archivist...I'm just a dude with a CD burner and a good attitude! :~) "Anarchist" might be more accurate! Bob NP: The Beatles, "Child of Nature" (demo) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:15:23 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: (njc) just curious << Wally K. wrote: >> Talk about oxymorons -- casual sex! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:21:06 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in Film In a message dated 11/15/01 2:13:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > <> > > Well, we've got a bunch of them already...I'm certainly grateful for what > we DO have! I never would have imagined that they existed until I joined > this wacky lot! > > As for the rest, a fella can dream, can't he? :~) > > Bob > Not to rain on your parade, but that is one of my favorite habits... I wouldn't be surprised if Joni would prefer that we leave well enough alone and let those songs stay buried the way she intended. But then, I suppose someone probably once paid a lot of money for the stick figures Picasso drew when he was 6, too. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:25:47 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: Joni in Film At 02:21 PM 11/15/01 EST, IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 11/15/01 2:13:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, >SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > > ><<>> > >Well, we've got a bunch of them already...I'm certainly grateful for what >we DO have! I never would have imagined that they existed until I joined >this wacky lot! > >As for the rest, a fella can dream, can't he? :~) > >Bob > > >Not to rain on your parade, but that is one of my favorite habits... >I wouldn't be surprised if Joni would prefer that we leave well enough >alone and let those songs stay buried the way she intended. >But then, I suppose someone probably once paid a lot of money for the stick >figures Picasso drew when he was 6, too. > >Paul I If she didn't know before, she knows now that we have some of her old, old, early songs. She's shuddering right now... LOL! Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:29:56 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Billy's list-some additional comments <> I'll buy that, I'll play them both tomorrow when I'm off and cleaning the house and report back. Like I said, I'm new to these records, so I'm not as immersed in them as you. <> Such as...?(not challenging, Billy, just trying to prompt some discussion...) << In a word, overrated. I'd rather hear an original like Laurie Anderson or Patti Smith any day.>> I think RLJ is 'influenced' by Laura, but she's also a great writer & performer in her own right. Sorta like saying that Springsteen is a Dylan rip-off. There's enough room for all of these magnificent talents. Maybe RLJ doesn't get the points for *innovation* that Laura gets, but she's far from a poser. <> Wasn't that released on "Much More Fun In The New World" anyway? Seems like everytime I break down and upgrade to CD, a month later they come out with a re-released version with extra tracks! :~( <> Too late...we're lining up already to start slapping you silly! LOL! Both C&S & HOSL are pure musical genius as far as I'm concerned, that goes for her entire 70's output. They have their differences, surely, but that's what artistic growth is all about. Bob NP: The Beatles, "A Case of the Blues" (demo) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:48:31 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in Film <> No rain on my parade, Paul...you're spot on! I'm sure Joni would be mortified to see that people are seeking out & listening to this stuff...BUT in the same way I like looking at Andrew Wyeth's sketches & studies (our local art museum has lots of Wyeth stuff), I enjoy listening to Joni's earliest writing, much of which stands with her best! Look at Urge For Going, that song was one of her first and is as uncomplicatedly lovely as anything she's written since. Bob NP: The Beatles, "Love You To" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 15:25:16 -0500 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Re: Suzanne Vega / Live on 92.5 now - Boston (NJC) Suzanne Vega is on 92.5 radio The River - Boston right now. jody ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:51:03 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Re: good news on a grey day (njc) Yay Anne, so happy to hear this good news! ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:51:02 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Re: joni as queen of hollywood in "bel air" Paz wrote "Bob Don't ever stop writing. I am still laughing hysterically and Julian wants to know if dad has lost it. BTW I have an underwater microphone that can be used for the production." Paz, omg, now YOU have me laughing & choking on my cereal! ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:01:09 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Ryan Adams NJC Can we talk? I really like this album. I don't have any Whiskeytown records. To anyone who has heard both RyanA & WTown (hi Les...), what do you suggest? Also what other alt country bands do you suggest...have heard about so many of these bands over the last couple of years... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:06:23 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Ryan Adams NJC At 02:01 PM 11/15/2001, you wrote: >I don't have any Whiskeytown records. To anyone who has heard both RyanA & >WTown (hi Les...), what do you suggest? Hi Kate! "Pneumonia" and "Faithless Street" are my faves. >Also what other alt country bands do you suggest...have heard about so many >of these bands over the last couple of years... Freakwater is a really cool band.... The Old '97's are quite good as well. Les ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 18:12:14 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: patrice chereau's new movie NJC have you seen ''intimacy'' yet? how was it rated wherever you are? i thought it was fantastic though i agree that some people may find it too slow or too crude. wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:14:48 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Ryan Adams NJC <> My wife tells me I'm in a rut. I usually always play lot of different records, but "Gold" has been in near-constant play since I picked it up. Easily the best record to come out this year, maybe the best in the last decade, in terms of it not being merely a product OR a product of its times but rather in its timelessness. Had this record been released in 1972, it would be a revered classic alongside of Layla, Exile on Main Street, Blonde On Blonde, all of which it echoes without being derivative. <> Stranger's Almanac is my favorite... <> I've always been partial to Son Volt & Wilco, even though I wasn't crazy about Uncle Tupelo which was made up of the stars of Son Volt & Wilco. Go figure! :~) Back to Ryan...I stayed up and watched SNL last Saturday night to see Adams...he did "New York, New York" (the obvious choice), but he didn't do a second song! Shit! The worst part was that I sat up through their very unfunny stuff just waiting on his second song. Do the SNL musical guests just play one song nowadays? I haven't watched that show in years, and it looks like I ain't missed much! Bob, WAY over my posting limit...sorry y'all! NP: Belly, "Untogether" ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #549 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?