From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #546 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, November 13 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 546 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni's Birthday Card! [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: socialism, capitalism NJC ["Kakki" ] Chuck & The Gallery [Leslie Mixon ] NJC Re: Joni Tribute Band in Italy [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Chuck & The Gallery ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: the Niemoeller quote - NJC ["Kakki" ] NJC Re: where it's at. 99% JC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: socialism, capitalism NJC [Vince Lavieri ] Re: socialism, capitalism NJC ["Kakki" ] Re: the Niemoeller quote - NJC [Vince Lavieri ] [none] ["Steve Polifka" ] Re: socialism, capitalism NJC [Vince Lavieri ] "Shadows And Light", a biography, JC? ["jlamadoo, home account" ] Hollywood Propaganda NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] IT'S NOVEMBER 13TH, WHERE'S JOAN? ["jlamadoo, home account" ] Adlai NJC ["Norma Meatheringham" ] forgot the major one NJC ["Norma Meatheringham" ] Subject: Re: socialism, capitalism NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] JMDL sweater NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Media and some good news NJC [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Subject: Re: socialism, capitalism NJC ["Kakki" ] Re: socialism, capitalism NJC ["Kakki" ] Re: IT'S NOVEMBER 13TH, WHERE'S JOAN? ["Kakki" ] Re: IT'S NOVEMBER 13TH, WHERE'S JOAN? ["Kakki" ] Re: IT'S NOVEMBER 13TH, WHERE'S JOAN? ["Stephen Epstein" Subject: Re: socialism, capitalism NJC colin asked: > How would you that? I have often wondered >this. I know I couldn't leave this country no >matter what. Laws of other countreis make >that impossible. Where would you go legally >as an American citizen? Can you somehow by >pass the laws of other countries? Do >American citizens have different rights than the >rest of the world? You couldn't come here, >unless you married a Brit(sorry I am taken). > Or would you leave everything behind and be >a penniless refugee? Well, I thought there was still legal emigration to several countries in this world. You have to apply for it, but it is really not that difficult for an American to emigrate to a number of countries. You have to show that you can support yourself and not have a criminal record, but that isn't an impossible barrier. I've actually considered it seriously myself a few times. Isn't is also easy for you to emigrate to all the countries in the British Commonwealth, too? > Leaving your own country is not easy-unless >you are a Doctor or some other needed >profession. Although I know of a lorry driver >who is emigrating to Canada > because Canada needs lorry drivers. Of course it's not easy and probably not desireable to most people. I just don't understand how someone can grow up in a country, despise it on many levels and still want to stay there. If they despise it so much, then living there shouldn't mean that much to them, especially if they see other countries as far more desirable places to live. I think it's an honest question. If terrorists took over your country and started making you adhere to their fundamentalism, would you still want to stay there? Most people would probably flee as fast as they could from their country rather than live that way and many people from many countries have done just that throughout the past couple centuries. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:24:21 -0800 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: Chuck & The Gallery I have to admit that singing with Claudia was one of my most enjoyable musical experiences (and I've sung with the Persuasions). When we were practicing The Gallery, everything worked: Chuck's playing, and Claudia's pitch perfect harmony. My only regret is that we didn't record it - thank you Chuck and Claudia for this beautiful memory and I do hope we get to sing it for everyone next year. Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:25:09 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Joni Tribute Band in Italy << Thanks for the tip Bob. >> It was my European covers soul-mate Monica that found it, so she gets the credit. <> Yippee! I'm always in need of a fix of the musical kind. And you don't know how fecking happy I am to see your by-line here again!! Bob NP: Dave Matthews Band, "Digging A Ditch" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:25:42 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Chuck & The Gallery > I have to admit that singing with Claudia was one of my most enjoyable > musical experiences (and I've sung with the Persuasions). > > When we were practicing The Gallery, everything worked: Chuck's playing, > and Claudia's pitch perfect harmony. > > My only regret is that we didn't record it - thank you Chuck and Claudia > for this beautiful memory and I do hope we get to sing it for everyone > next year. Having never attended a Jonifest that Claudia has also been present at, I can't say that I am familiar with her singing. I have, however, heard Leslie sing and I would therefore I know this would be fantastic! I would love to hear it! Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:28:22 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: the Niemoeller quote - NJC Vince, This seems so odd that it would be misquoted all these years. The more well-known, quote mentioned them coming for the Catholics, Gypsies, etc. as I recall. Which is some of the groups the Nazi's came after. Somehow this corrected quote doesn't make sense to me, and maybe you can enlighten me. Was Germany filled with Communists at the time? Why would they come for the Socialists when the name "Nazi" is short for "National Socialist Party?" And I guess the rest of your post makes the analogy that Ashcroft is a Nazi? O.K. Kakki, again reconsidering emigration from Amerika ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:39:25 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: where it's at. 99% JC << Or write to Victor Johnson directly for a copy of "Tangled". >> I think Victor's "Tangled" is also available from CDBaby... << Also, I love Gregg Cagno's indie release "Present Moment Days". No idea how to obtain it though. (Gregg, are you there? Do you have other discs available?) >> His website is GreggCagno.com (who would have ever guessed THAT one! ;~D) His CD's are readily available. He's got 3, 2 of which I have and love. If you like James Taylor, John Gorka, etc. you'll like Gregg. He may not be checking his e-mail much, though. I think he was trying to get a job as Diana Krall's dresser on her tour! ;~) Bob NP: DMB, "Big Eyed Fish" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:43:05 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: socialism, capitalism NJC I am not sure who it is that despises one's country. I despise some of our government's current policies. The last election was waged in part by people who despised the policies of the previous administration - those despises were the Republicans. While I wouldn't mind if all the Republicans left the country, I do not encourage it as my father would have a hard time adjusting to a new country, and probably wouldn't live long enough to become a citizen somewhere else and it would take me a long time to travel to see him. But as for despising one's country - who does that? I may have a long list of things that need to be corrected by my country, a long list of changes that I think need to be made. How many husbands and wives, how many parents and children, have long lists of things they would change about the other? I despise some of our government's current policies. I love my country. I follow the tradition of Carl Schurz: "My Country! When right keep it right; when wrong, set it right!" Schurz was a Union general, US Senator, and Cabinet member so I think I am safe in having Schurz as a role model. Because I love my country, I vote in every election. Last week the voter turnout in my city was under 10%. Kalamazoo had a huge turnout of 25%. I think instead of worrying about who we should encourage to leave the country because we think they despise our country, we ought to turn our attention to those who give lip service to loving our country and yet do not take part in the essential act of any patriotic American who wants the nation to work: voting. Just my old radical opinion; don't mean a thing. (the Rev) Vince information on Schurz: http://www.germanheritage.com/biographies/mtoz/schurz.html Kakki wrote: > If terrorists took over your country and started making you > adhere to their fundamentalism, would you still want to stay there? actually yes; I would consider it my duty as an American to resist - nonviolently, but resist in every way that would have meaning. I am not one of those "cut and run" people; this is my country. I would have no qualms about giving my life for my country. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:54:49 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: socialism, capitalism NJC Vince wrote: > I think instead of worrying about who we should encourage to leave the country > because we think they despise our country, we ought to turn our attention to > those who give lip service to loving our country and yet do not take part in > the essential act of any patriotic American who wants the nation to work: > voting. Oh geez, I am not encouraging anyone to leave the country. You wouldn't mind if all the Republicans left the country? That's a really scary comment. Why would you want to eliminate half of the population of the U.S.? Good lord - at one time we were all Americans. Let those who hate the U.S. chant for our downfall and they won't know what they had till it's gone. Voting will be the first thing to go after the "revolution" whatever form that takes. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:59:05 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: the Niemoeller quote - NJC Kakki wrote: > Vince, > > This seems so odd that it would be misquoted all these years. The more > well-known, quote mentioned them coming for the Catholics, Gypsies, etc. as > I recall. Accretion. The Gypsies were in fact gathered up for extermination, along with gays and people with mental and physical retardation. As any story gets told over and over, it gets "added to" in the oral tradition. The additions do not take away the essential meaning of the quote and are probably added because it reinforces the quote. > Which is some of the groups the Nazi's came after. The Catholics were never rounded up. There were of course individual Roman Catholics who were, but it was the Protestants who formed the Confessing Church, including Niemoeller, who took the hit there. > Somehow this > corrected quote doesn't make sense to me, and maybe you can enlighten me. > Was Germany filled with Communists at the time? There were some, yes, although Germany was hardly "filled with Communists." And only a Hitler would think that because someone was a Communist, they should be put into concentration camps. (For anyone who wants to make the obvious replies to that statement, I invite you...) > Why would they come for the > Socialists when the name "Nazi" is short for "National Socialist Party?" I cannot help you if you do not know the difference between the Nazi's and the socialists. If you wish to take the name of the Nazi party at face value, I can only suggest that you do some reading on the subject. The Nazis were not, *not*, not in any way, socialists; they were fascists, the mortal enemies of socialists. > > > And I guess the rest of your post makes the analogy that Ashcroft is a Nazi? > O.K. No, Kakki, it does not make that analogy, I did not say that, and frankly, I resent the implication. I seriously resent it. Not OK. That is a very unfair statement. > > > Kakki, again reconsidering emigration from Amerika This land was made for you and me, Kakki. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:03:20 -0600 From: "Steve Polifka" Subject: [none] >Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:42:30 -0800 >From: Michael Paz >Subject: Re: Joni Tribute Band in Italy >Thanks for the tip Bob. BTW a package >was mailed out to you today VIA UPS. It's your usual allotment of >medication. Enjoy! And we all know that Bob's drug of choice is more Joni covers... Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 23:11:28 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: socialism, capitalism NJC Kakki wrote: > Vince wrote: > > > I think instead of worrying about who we should encourage to leave the > country > > because we think they despise our country, we ought to turn our attention > to > > those who give lip service to loving our country and yet do not take part > in > > the essential act of any patriotic American who wants the nation to work: > > voting. Kakki responded: > > > Oh geez, I am not encouraging anyone to leave the country. You wouldn't > mind if all the Republicans left the country? That's a really scary > comment. Kakki, get real. You are scaring me in what appears to me as a willful desire to misinterpret and create division and smear people who disagree with you. I made the specific comment about my father to show that I was speaking tongue in cheek to say that it is wrong to say that someone who despises the policies of our government - as Bush did, as my father did, as a lot of people despised the policies of the prior administration - should be confused with those who despise out country, in response to your posts that the latter group should leave our country That was an attempt at a humorous response to separate out the issue of those who despise certain policies with those who despise the country. Kakki said: Why would you want to eliminate half of the population of the U.S.? I am having a real tough time with your replies. You are better than that. So - - go ahead and say more of what you want, I am out of this conversation as I am not willing to have my words twisted so. Once again, when you spin what is said to demonize those who disagree with you as you are doing to me now, I out of respect for all your many contributions to the JMDL and Joni fans everywhere, I am now out of this conversation. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 23:52:36 -0500 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: "Shadows And Light", a biography, JC? Until Les' buddies over at Helter Skelter replenish their stock of Karen O'Brien's Joni biography, consider purchasing at http://www.amazon.co.uk They even ship to the USA. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 00:00:53 -0500 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: Nero or CD Creator? NJC I'm about to format my Windows machine and start over. I'm hearing that Nero is the way to go for burning audio CDs. While I appreciate that JMDLers are a little shy about sharing their opinions, I'm hoping to hear some advice on this matter. Lama ps, Yes, that was gentle, tongue in cheek humor. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 21:37:32 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Hollywood Propaganda NJC Mike wrote: >>>>PS I don't agree with you about the Guardian, or with Debra's comment ('The Guardian is a left-wing paper and doesn't claim to give an objective view') but I'll wait for comments by other readers before commenting myself.<<<< I have always thought the Guardian to be left leaning...or at least it used to be so...haven't read it in a long time.... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 00:38:33 -0500 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: IT'S NOVEMBER 13TH, WHERE'S JOAN? 1.) She was planning to be recording in the UK in November with the same band as last time. 2.) It's November. 3.) Is it on? Is anyone crashing it? Never shying away from senselessly taunting his friends, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 21:47:47 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Shadows and Light/Helter skelter Chuck E wrote: I am in the middle of Tim White's 'James Taylor'bio, and I think it's excellent. Rather a lot about ancient ancestors in Scotland(Guess what? some ancestors were tailors!) but White apparently feels it sheds light on some of James' choices and predilections (as for the sea and boats). Could be...also, James is a Pisces & fishy folk are always drawn to the sea...just ask our NJ shore lovin Rosie! ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:55:42 -0700 From: "Norma Meatheringham" Subject: Adlai NJC since politics and the like give me gas, I thot a little Adlai goes a long way. these quotes, and more, were in our Sunday reader section of our newspaper a few weeks ago: - -It is often easier to fight for principles than to live up to them. - -The definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular. - -The sound of tireless voices is the price we pay for the right to hear the music of our own opinions. and my favourite: Supporter: "You'll have the support of all thinking Americans, Mr. Stevenson!" Adlai: "That's not enough. I'm going to need a majority." Democratic thought for the day: "If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates." - Jay Leno ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "For it was not into my ear you whispered, but into my heart. It was not my lips you kissed, but my soul." - -Judy Garland Most of us go to our grave with our music still inside of us. The next time you feel like complaining, remember: Your garbage disposal probably eats better than thirty percent of the people in this world. And remember... "Man who buy drowned cat, must pay for stinking, wet pussy." Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari? How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? Neutiquam erro. I am not lost. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 23:03:17 -0700 From: "Norma Meatheringham" Subject: forgot the major one NJC Adlai on Patriotism: - -What do we mean by patriotism in the context of our times? I venture to suggest that what we mean is a sense of national responsibility...a patriotism that is not short, frenzied outbursts of emotion, but the tranquil, steady dedication of a lifetime. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "For it was not into my ear you whispered, but into my heart. It was not my lips you kissed, but my soul." - -Judy Garland Most of us go to our grave with our music still inside of us. The next time you feel like complaining, remember: Your garbage disposal probably eats better than thirty percent of the people in this world. And remember... "Man who buy drowned cat, must pay for stinking, wet pussy." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 03:07:06 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Adlai NJC who or what is adlai? where can you read more about/by him/her/it/them? wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Norma Meatheringham Enviado el: Martes, 13 de Noviembre de 2001 02:56 a.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Adlai NJC since politics and the like give me gas, I thot a little Adlai goes a long way. these quotes, and more, were in our Sunday reader section of our newspaper a few weeks ago: I am not lost. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:17:59 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Re: socialism, capitalism NJC Not sure if they have changed California's Medi-Cal eligibility but it used to be only available to very low income (i.e. below the poverty line) residents. It also used to be mostly (not always) pretty low quality health care, one reason being that only a very few doctors were willing to accept it. >>>In addition in many states such as California we have Medi-Cal for anyone who doesn't have health insurance and Disability insurance.<<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:23:55 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: The Gallery that never saw light Oh! Was that the song that was being worked on in the other room when the auction was going on? Someone called out to me to join in but I was too caught up in the auction fever...what a fool I was!!!! Towards the end of this year's Northeast fest Leslie Mixon and Claudia and I were working on an arrangement of The Gallery that was totally transcendent. What voices these guys have! Anyway, we didn't get to do it because of time constraints, but hey, there's always next year! ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:23:56 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: JMDL sweater NJC Wow, What a beautiful sweater Colin!!!!!!! >>>Les kindly put it on the site: http://www.jmdl.com/colin.jpg<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 01:23:48 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Media and some good news NJC "Kakki" wrote: >I'd always heard the CSN was good for objectivity Yes, especially "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes." - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:49:17 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: socialism, capitalism NJC Kate, This may be some good news - I have one friend, not below the poverty line, but without health insurance who just had a brain tumor removed by the top surgeon at Cedars Sinai (top hospital) and was put in a gorgeous suite and Medi-Cal paid for all of it without a hitch. I have another friend also not below the poverty line but without insurance, who needs some serious complicated surgery done and Medi-Cal is paying for him to have the top surgeon from USC perform the surgery. I had to use Medi-Cal about 25 years ago when I had a job but didn't have insurance and there was no red tape at all and no restrictions on who I went to. Kakki > Not sure if they have changed California's Medi-Cal eligibility but it used > to be only available to very low income (i.e. below the poverty line) > residents. It also used to be mostly (not always) pretty low quality health > care, one reason being that only a very few doctors were willing to accept > it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 23:00:17 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: the Niemoeller quote - NJC Thanks for the information, Vince. > The Catholics were never rounded up. >There were of course individual Roman > Catholics who were, but it was the >Protestants who formed the Confessing > Church, including Niemoeller, who took the >hit there. My 8th grade Social Studies teacher told us that millions of Catholics were also killed in the concentration camps. He wasn't singling them out - just letting us know about all the people who were exterminated. > I cannot help you if you do not know the >difference between the Nazi's and the > socialists. If you wish to take the name of the >Nazi party at face value, I can only suggest >that you do some reading on the subject. The >Nazis were not, *not*, not in any way, >socialists; they were fascists, the mortal >enemies of socialists. No, I totally knew they were fascists (actually that's probably too good a word for the likes of them) but they did represent themselves as some "socialists." No truth in advertising there, I will agree. Kakki > > > > > > > And I guess the rest of your post makes the analogy that Ashcroft is a Nazi? > > O.K. > > No, Kakki, it does not make that analogy, I did not say that, and frankly, I > resent the implication. I seriously resent it. Not OK. That is a very > unfair statement. > > > > > > > Kakki, again reconsidering emigration from Amerika > > This land was made for you and me, Kakki. > > (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 23:02:53 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: socialism, capitalism NJC Vince wrote: > Kakki, get real. You are scaring me in what >appears to me as a willful desire to >misinterpret and create division and smear >people who disagree with you. Oh no! I apologize for that. I didn't realize you were kidding. No desire to smear anyone or create division - probably just me being overactive. Sorry! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 23:04:58 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: IT'S NOVEMBER 13TH, WHERE'S JOAN? Good questions, Lama! Enquiring minds want to know ;-) Kakki P.S. Yes, I guess she is available now - haha > 1.) She was planning to be recording in the >UK in November with the same band as last >time. > > 2.) It's November. > > 3.) Is it on? Is anyone crashing it? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 23:04:58 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: IT'S NOVEMBER 13TH, WHERE'S JOAN? Good questions, Lama! Enquiring minds want to know ;-) Kakki P.S. Yes, I guess she is available now - haha > 1.) She was planning to be recording in the >UK in November with the same band as last >time. > > 2.) It's November. > > 3.) Is it on? Is anyone crashing it? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 02:15:00 -0500 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Re: IT'S NOVEMBER 13TH, WHERE'S JOAN? When Kakki and I had the most wonderful opportunity to share an hour of Joni's time last month, she said a couple of things that relate to your queries, Jim! She DID tell us that she and Donald had split, and even more publicly, at the Toronto Harbourfront Tribute, mentioned the same, in the presence of lots of press. The second was- I asked her if she would be back in Toronto this week for the Issye Mayake tribute, as she is such a fan, and she replied that she couldn't, due to other commitments, which I believe is the London sessions. UK listers- any sightings yet? Best, Stephen in Vancouver NP: David Gray- White Ladder Good questions, Lama! Inquiring minds want to know ;-) Kakki P.S. Yes, I guess she is available now - haha > 1.) She was planning to be recording in the >UK in November with the same band as last >time. > > 2.) It's November. > > 3.) Is it on? Is anyone crashing it? ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #546 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?