From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #543 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, November 11 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 543 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Key Z RIP NJC [FredNow@aol.com] JMDL sweater NJC [MGVal@aol.com] three book thingie njc ["joe farrell" ] Re: gay/str8 porn njc [AsharaJM@aol.com] thank you for the daffodils (NJC) ["Ron Greer" ] Re: gay/str8 porn njc [colin ] Re: JMDL sweater NJC [colin ] lost children's book found!! NJC [TimandMaryPowers@aol.com] Re: Marcel Proust et Alain De Botton (NJC) ["Preet" ] re: guitar discussion [Anne Sandstrom ] RE: thank you for the daffodils (NJC) [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: Hollywood. njc [TimandMaryPowers@aol.com] Re: Shadows & Light bio [Michael Paz ] Re: november 11!!!!!! njc [Michael Paz ] Re: Hollywood. njc [Janet Hess ] Re: Hollywood. njc [TimandMaryPowers@aol.com] Re: november 11!!!!!! njc ["Mark or Travis" ] RE: Hollywood. njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: BSN - Life As A House ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Hollywood. njc [Janet Hess ] Re: Key Z RIP NJC [Randy Remote ] Billy Joel(NJC) [Relayer211@aol.com] Congrats, Dreams & Pornaramic Views (NJC) [Susan Guzzi ] Re: One of the Hollywood Ten. NJC (long) ["Mike Pritchard" ] Re: Congrats, Dreams & Pornaramic Views (NJC) [colin > This is the first digest I've read in weeks and what are the odds my sweater is mentioned in it? I'm wearing it right this second! It's really lovely and not only did I have two compliments on it this past week but my oldest, Signe, and I had a bit of a tousle over who got to wear it last night! If I had the money, I'd finance Colin's Across the Pond Boutique in a snap. MG ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:12:10 -0000 From: "joe farrell" Subject: three book thingie njc I've had this Joni audio book on order with Amazon since April and it still hasn't been released. I don't think the audio book version of the memoir will appear until the Joni memoir is finally published. I found another site taking orders for the autobiography i ordered then they emailed me to say the book wouldn't be published until 2006!!! Don't place too much store in seeing these items advertised by Amazon or others they are not yet available it seems to me. Cheers, Joe. NP Gillian Welch Time The Revalator ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 08:08:46 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: gay/str8 porn njc I think detailed discussions about gay/straight porn as well as pedophila really stretches the boundaries of what is acceptable here. Yes, this is a discussion list about Joni Mitchell, AND her life and times, but I truly think this is really stretching it a bit too far. Just my humble opinion. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 16:26:49 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: thank you for the daffodils (NJC) Hi >>anne wrote >>and the 120 daffoldil bulbs that I did plant - the squirrels dug up every >>single one! My garden is now just a bunch of little holes!) little holes and lots & lots of happy squirrels :-) >>I feel like I've taken a few steps backward in the healing >>process, i hope & pray that this is only temporary, & that youre already well back into the process.. ron (who used to love feeding the squirrels in cape town. no squirrels in pretoria tho'. the things we do for money...) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:38:09 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: gay/str8 porn njc AsharaJM@aol.com wrote: > I think detailed discussions about gay/straight porn as well as pedophila I take on board the first part of this sentence but don't understand the second. there was no lurid discussion about peodophlia just one factual post from me. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:39:43 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: JMDL sweater NJC MGVal@aol.com wrote: > With freaky timing, Colin writes: > > << About a year ago I knit MG a silk/wool cardigan with JMDL embroidered on > it. I have asked Les if maybe it can be posted on the site. If this is > not possible, I can email a pic to anyone who might want to see it >> > > This is the first digest I've read in weeks and what are the odds my sweater > is mentioned in it? I'm wearing it right this second! It's really lovely and > not only did I have two compliments on it this past week but my oldest, > Signe, and I had a bit of a tousle over who got to wear it last night! > > If I had the money, I'd finance Colin's Across the Pond Boutique in a snap. Before anyone asks, i cannot do this for money as it is too difficult! Already looked into it for someone who wanted a sweater. > > > MG - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 09:57:23 EST From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: lost children's book found!! NJC I'm SO excited! the Internet Public Library found my lost children's book! The one I sent a message about a couple of weeks ago. It is about a family with a life in ancient Egypt and a life in modern day America. They have a cat. It is called "Cat in the Mirror" by Mary Stolz. I've attached the message from IPL because I thought it's possible that there might be questions that some of you want to ask them and this message shows how they conduct searches. It's made my day! Mary People hurry by so quickly Don't they hear the melodies In the chiming and the clicking And the laughing harmonies - - Joni Mitchell Return-Path: Received: from rly-xa02.mx.aol.com (rly-xa02.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.71]) by air-xa01.mail.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILINXA18-1111084833; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 08:48:33 -0500 Received: from aristotle.si.umich.edu (aristotle.si.umich.edu [141.211.203.36]) by rly-xa02.mx.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXA21-1111084808; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 08:48:08 1900 Received: (from ipld@localhost) by aristotle.si.umich.edu (8.11.1/8.11.1) id fABDj1k10868; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 08:45:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 08:45:01 -0500 (EST) From: iplref@ipl.org Message-Id: <200111111345.fABDj1k10868@aristotle.si.umich.edu> To: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Re: [ref#180572] LIT: Children's book which protagonist lives in ancient Egypt and modern-day U.S. (no date) X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello from the Internet Public Library, In response to your question about the title and author of the young adult novel that you described, we have found the following information. The title is "Cat in the Mirror" and the author is Mary Stolz. Currently the book is out of print, but is available in libraries or can be purchased from a vendor dealing with out of print materials. We found a description of the plot from the the Dalton School in New York City: "An unhappy teenage girl, unable to cope with problems at home and at school, suffers an accidental blow on the head and is transported 3000 years back in time to another existence in ancient Egypt." The description and general information on the book can be found on the following page from the Dalton School's Libraries: http://www.dalton.org/libraries/fairrosa/sum/citmstom.txt Below is the the cataloging information from the Library of Congress Online Catalog: Stolz, Mary, 1920- Cat in the mirror / by Mary Stolz. 1st ed. New York : Harper & Row, c1975. 199 p. ; 22 cm. The Library of Congress call number is PZ7.S875854 Cat3. The Library of Congress (LOC) Online Catalog is located at: http://catalog.loc.gov/ We conducted the search on the LOC Online Catalog by choosing the Subj/Name/Title/Call# search, selecting "Title", and entering the search terms: "cat in the mirror". The second search result is the book. The book is available for purchase on Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060258330/qid=1005482715/sr=1-1/ref =sr_1_4_1/103-6748490-2067057 In addition, the IPL has a page for finding used and rare books: http://www.ipl.org/ref/QUE/FARQ/usedbookFARQ.html The search strategy that we used to locate the information was using the Northern Light search engine at: http://www.northernlight.com/ and entered the search terms: "cat in the mirror" We also tried the Google search engine at: http://www.google.com/ and entered the terms: "cat in the mirror" "cat in the mirror" plot "cat in the mirror" description Please let us know if we can be of further assistance. Thanks for asking the IPL! > Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 14:24:28 EST > From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com > Subject: reference question > To: > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > My name is Mary Powers and I live in Laurel, MD. my email is timandmarypowers@aol.com. > > There is a book from my childhood I am looking for. However, I don't know > the author or the title. It is about a family (two parents and a daughter) > who keep getting reincarnated. One of their lives is in ancient Egypt and > another is in America. They have a cat. The mother and daughter never get > along. I've asked around and no one is familiar with the book, which I > read in the late 70's or early 80's. I would love to read the book again > if I could find it. > > I have consulted children's booksellers, children's librarians, and a listserv. > > I'd prefer a factual answer but if you could refer me to a reference source on children's books, that would be fine. > > I have no deadline for this question. > > thanks, > > Mary Powers > > [/|\] Kristen Arbutiski |-+-| iplref@ipl.org - http://www.ipl.org/ref/ [\|/] "the Day Begins at Midnight" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 15:10:54 -0000 From: "Preet" Subject: Re: Marcel Proust et Alain De Botton (NJC) Somebody must have mentioned the book on Proust by Alain De Botton "How Proust can change your life"(1997). It's absolutely fan-dabi-dose. He could have easily called it "Proust without the Pain". I also recommend his newer work "The Consolations of Philosophy" if you have not already flitted through it's aladdin pages. Preet De Londinium preetd@bigfoot.com "Proust covers the butterfly shadows ..." - Virginia Woolf Proust said "a woman whom we need and who makes us suffer elicits from us a whole gamut of feelings far more profound and more vital than does a man of genius who interests us." [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 10:13:08 -0500 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: re: guitar discussion WOW! Paul, thank so much for pointing the way to this site. I'm going to have fun trying a lot of these tunings. I'm especially pleased to see Lynne Saner included. I LOVE her song "A Child Once." Imagine my surprise when one day about a year ago, I was talking to my manager. We started talking about music because he had a radio on in his office, tuned to a local folk station. I mentioned that years ago I appeared live on the station a few times. He said his wife had too. I knew his wife's first name was Lynne. Well, after a few minutes of talking generally about the local coffeehouse scene, I finally put 2 and 2 together and said "Your wife's not Lynne Saner, is she???" He laughed and said yes. Well, I BEGGED for a copy of her CD (which I hadn't been able to locate in any music stores). Sadly, she doesn't sing much anymore. And kudos to Sue M and eveyone else who has contributed to the Joni Mitchell guitar site. I daresay ours is one of the most 'scholarly' of fan sites on the Web. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 10:19:23 -0500 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: thank you for the daffodils (NJC) little holes and lots & lots of happy squirrels :-) Sigh, yes. I guess that's one way of trying to look at the glass as being half full. But y'know, the little critters are just NEVER satisfied!! lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 09:20:22 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Hollywood. njc This post is of no great importance but just something that irritates me and I wanted to get it off of my chest. I just watched the most ridiculous movie called "Dill Scallion". Anyone who has seen it will know what I mean. This person was supposedly from Muleshoe, Texas. At the end they show the landscape of Muleshoe, supposedly. Hollywood license again. There are no large hills in the distance from Muleshoe, Texas. Only flat land for as far as the eye can see. That area is the beginning of what is called the South Plains and the end of the Great Plains. I am sure not interesting to most but irritating to those of us who are from that area. Makes me wonder how much disinformation we get from films. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 10:32:23 EST From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Re: Hollywood. njc In a message dated 11/11/01 7:24:27 AM, courtandspark@earthlink.net writes: > Makes me wonder how much disinformation we get from films. this reminds me of a story about a Bruce Willis film, forget which one. Part of it was set in DC, at Dulles airport. They had "Pacific Bell" phones shown. Plus, they had a major snowstorm in DC around Christmas, which never happens. Also, the media portrayal of the government leaves a lot to be desired in terms of accuracy. Which encourages a lot of conspiracy theories. In the movies, we are always either incompetent or involved in Macchiavellian plots in which people get killed. Mary People hurry by so quickly Don't they hear the melodies In the chiming and the clicking And the laughing harmonies - - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 10:58:24 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Shadows & Light bio Hey Mark- The Dave solo is fantastic thanks so much! Is this Tim Reynolds from a solo release? He was here last thursday at Tipitinas, but I had dinner plans that went till almost midnight (two hours past show time). Best wishes Paz NP-Pleine Lune En Decembre-Zachary Richard on 11/10/01 2:17 PM, Mark Domyancich at mark@jmdl.com wrote: > Mark > NP-Tim Reynolds, Decline in Reason ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 11:04:50 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: november 11!!!!!! njc Julie Z Happy Fecking Birthday to you girl. Hope all is well in your end of the world. Michael on 11/10/01 11:00 PM, Wally Kairuz at wallykai@fibertel.com.ar wrote: > JULIE Z WEBB > > is having a birthday today > > and she wants to hear you say > > H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y > > JULIE ADORED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > PIPPIN MISSES YOU! > > the birthday fairy withdraws. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:03:13 -0500 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: Hollywood. njc Yeah, DC really takes it in the movies. I forget what the movie was, but there was a thriller in which some of the action took place in the Georgetown METRO (subway) station. When that movie played around here, theaters erupted in laughter in the middle of a chase scene: there is no METRO stop in Georgetown. OTOH, I once worked for Lambda Rising, DC's major G/L/T/B bookstore. We closed down for a day or two because "Enemy of the State," action flick with Gene Hackman and Will Smith, was renting the bookstore to film a scene...and turning it into a hetero frilly undies store in which Will Smith buys something sexy for his wife. So those who know DC were aware that Will was making this purchase in one of DC's gay landmarks, which spiced things up a bit but in a whole nother direction. BTW, when I rented "Enemy of the State," I was surprised by how really entertaining it was. If you have an evening with nothing else on tap, you could do a lot worse that watching "Enemy of the State." Cheerz, Janet and Deanna Ivy the Wonderkitty, who must have conked out somewhere because seconds ago she was streaking around this apartment impersonating Flying Kitty, and suddenly the crazed kitty soundtrack is over At 10:32 AM 11/11/2001 -0500, Mary wrote: >this reminds me of a story about a Bruce Willis film, forget which one. Part >of it was set in DC, at Dulles airport. They had "Pacific Bell" phones >shown. Plus, they had a major snowstorm in DC around Christmas, which never >happens. - -------------- You've got to shake your fists at lightning now You've got to roar like forest fire You've got to spread your light like blazes All across the sky Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:39:20 EST From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Re: Hollywood. njc In a message dated 11/11/01 9:06:12 AM, hessj@ix.netcom.com writes: > >OTOH, I once worked for Lambda Rising, DC's major G/L/T/B bookstore. We >closed down for a day or two because "Enemy of the State," action flick >with Gene Hackman and Will Smith, was renting the bookstore to film a >scene...and turning it into a hetero frilly undies store in which Will >Smith buys something sexy for his wife. what an odd choice! I really like Lambda Rising by the way. Their selection of women's books is great (though I am not a lesbian...does anyone have a problem with that??) What possessed them to turn it into a "victoria's secret" kind of place? I mean, why not just pick a Victoria's secret location and film there? Mary People hurry by so quickly Don't they hear the melodies In the chiming and the clicking And the laughing harmonies - - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 09:54:25 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: november 11!!!!!! njc > JULIE Z WEBB > > is having a birthday today > > and she wants to hear you say > > H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y > Happy Birthday, Julsie! Come back & play with us! Mark E. (in Seattle) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:56:18 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Hollywood. njc welcome to the club! how many times have i seen buenos aires depicted as a little town where people take a nap in the streets, children ride donkeys and the palm trees sway in front of quaint adobe houses. most of evita was filmed in budapest because it looks more like buenos aires than buenos aires itself. go figure. wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 10:22:19 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: BSN - Life As A House How is 'Life As A House'? I've been seeing a lot of ads for this movie. Anybody else seen it? I agree that Kevin Kline is very talented. He's also very skilled in comedy. How was Isham's score? It's nice to see that BSN got some exposure. Joni sometimes manages to sneak into things when you least expect her. When I went to see 'Funny Girl' a couple of weeks ago, my friend & I had some time to kill so we went into a bar across the street from the theatre. There was a variety of jazz vocalists playing over the sound system. I was pleasantly surprised to hear Joni singing 'At Last' and then a little later on they played another cut from BSN, don't remember which one. My friend is taking a jazz singing class and occasionally attends open mike night at a local jazz club so of course I had to call it to his attention! Boris (Mark E.) My Darlink Natasha wrote: > On this rainy Saturday afternoon, Steve and I decided to catch a > matinee. We chose the new Kevin Kline film, "Life As A House." During > a pivotal moment in the film, his ex-wife (played by Kristin Scott > Thomas) puts a CD in the player and all of a sudden Joni is singing the > orchestral version of BSN; Mark Isham scored the music for the film. > > Before I knew it the tears were flowing, both mine and Steve's. > > I think Kevin Kline is a terrific dramatic actor. > > Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 13:34:44 -0500 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: Hollywood. njc A big chunk of the action in one section of "Enemy of the State" is around Dupont Circle (OK, OK, there are those who would say that a big chunk of the action is always around Dupont Circle, but I'm Above All That). The tunnel that carries Connecticut Avenue beneath the circle was crucial for this scene, if I recall correctly. So the film folks were pretty much looking for a shop in that section of Conn. Ave. They scoped out Lambda Rising and really liked the physical structure of the store -- the windows, the layout, etc. -- for their purposes. It was wonderfully surreal to watch the gay and lesbian bookstore you work for be transformed into a Victoria's Secret-ish place, and not by customers. ;p In addition to renting out the bookstore itself for a day or two, the movie people bought Lambda Rising a new awning. And a bunch of staff and friends were extras in "Enemy." Glad you like Lambda Rising. It was hard to work there because I wanted always to spend every cent on books and music. And many customers are drawn from the non-GLBT world. I haven't been by for a few months and just typing this reminds me that I should pop in. Cheerz, Janet and Deanna Ivy the Wonderkitty, who roused herself to demand a few Fishy treats before falling asleep yet again At 12:39 PM 11/11/2001 -0500, Mary wrote: >In a message dated 11/11/01 9:06:12 AM, hessj@ix.netcom.com writes: > > >what an odd choice! I really like Lambda Rising by the way. Their selection >of women's books is great (though I am not a lesbian...does anyone have a >problem with that??) What possessed them to turn it into a "victoria's >secret" kind of place? I mean, why not just pick a Victoria's secret >location and film there? > >Mary > > >People hurry by so quickly >Don't they hear the melodies >In the chiming and the clicking >And the laughing harmonies >- Joni Mitchell - -------------- You've got to shake your fists at lightning now You've got to roar like forest fire You've got to spread your light like blazes All across the sky Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:41:54 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Key Z RIP NJC FredNow@aol.com wrote: > Novelist, 60s Icon Ken Kesey Dies > 11/10/2001 3:23 PM EST (I've away for awhile, but this brought me out of lurkdom). Too bad about Kesey. Aside from his more popular books, "The Last Go Round", written with Ken Babbs was one of the best books I've ever read, a tale about a black cowboy on the rodeo circuit in Oregon, based on a true story. Also "The Demon Box", a collection of shorter pieces is great. He also wrote a piece in the 9-11-01 commemorative edition of Rolling Stone. You'll be missed, Chief. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 17:08:10 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Billy Joel(NJC) Billy Joel is performing and answering questions tonight from 9:00 to 11:00 on channel A&E. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:32:08 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Congrats, Dreams & Pornaramic Views (NJC) Hello To All, Just wanted to comment on a couple of threads going. Kate, Congratulations! I know you were a bit worried, but I knew you would pull it off all along. I'm so looking forward to listening to this - ya know after the rush when you come back down. Tomorrow the return of Edina and Patsy. Comedy Central at 9:00 est/8:00 central time. After my Jennifer Saunders dream last night, which I don't remember a whole lot of details about, I am really chomping at the bit. Relax my gay brothers, nothing here to add to the porno thread ... yet. Colin wrote: I find that difficult to swallow ...>> and I don't know anyone who spills a pint. Colin you are right, but it still made me LMAO! Although I am not a fan of gay male porn, I have heard many lesbians say they do like it. That I don't get at all, however, lesbian porn is sooooo bad, perhaps it's just the lesser of 2 evils. I did come across (watch it) a documentry of sorts last night on Anne Sprinkle. She is a kind of porn performance artist. I loved her openness & her lack of inhibition. Has anyone heard of her and what's your views on her films/performance? Not a huge porn fan, but she got my interest. So I did wind up talking about porn! This still has nothing to do with my dream! Take care all ... Peace Susan P.S. Wondering if I'll be the only women to visit the "porn" thread. Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 20:27:50 +0100 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Galeano NJC 1493 Barcelona Day of Glory The heralds announce him with their trumpets. The bells peal and the drums beat out festive rhythms. The admiral, newly returned from the Indies, mounts the stone steps and advances on the crimson carpet amid the silken dazzle of the applauding royal court. The man who has made the saints` and sages` prophesies come true reaches the platform, kneels, and kisses the hands of the queen and the king. From the rear come the trophies: gleaming on trays, the bits of gold that Columbus had exchanged for little mirrors and red caps in the remote gardens newly burst from the sea. On branches and dead leaves are paraded the skins of lizards and snakes; and behind them, trembling and weeping, enter the beings never before seen. They are the few who have survived the colds, the measles, and the disgust for the Christians` food and bad smell. Not naked, as they were when they approached the three caravels and were captured, they have been covered up with trousers, shirts, and a few parrots that have been put in their hands and on their heads and shoulders. The parrots, robbed of their feathers by the foul winds of the voyage, look as moribund as the men. Of the captured women and children, none has survived. Hostile murmurs are heard in the salon. The gold is minimal, and there is not a trace of black pepper, or nutmeg, or cloves, or ginger; and Columbus has not brought in any bearded sirens or men with tails, or the ones with only one eye or foot - and that foot big enough when raised to be protection from the fierce sun. Eduardo Galeano Genesis Vol I of 'Memory of Fire' ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 19:18:24 +0100 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re: One of the Hollywood Ten. NJC (long) Mike wrote: >> It is hard to be objective about this film, given my feelings towards it, but I urge anyone who has seen 'Salt' to see it. It seems to me the perfect time to have made this film, given the current climate where freedom of expression seems under threat and any 'dissenting voices' (including on this list) are treated as 'undemocratic' or 'marxist inspired' 'un-American' or whatever else.<< Kakki replied >>Oh dear, Mike. I believe I'm the only one who has discussed the marxist dissenters. My context was the marxist groups in the U.S. who are against our current actions simply IMO because they are against anything that the U.S. does to begin with and are sometimes moved more by anarchist or other motivations more than anything else. I have clearly said that dissent is part of being a free American. I have seen much written in the past few months (outside the list) that has come from marxist sources and then seen people who don't know the source grab onto and believe the propaganda. I only wish to make the point that there should be a separation between those voices and other antiwar groups. To at least clarify my own viewpoint, I do (not) think "any" dissenting voice is "undemocratic," "marxist" or "un-American." Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions. I can't recall if I have seen Salt of the Earth but it sounds familiar and like it is a classic.<< Mike's replies to Kakki's comments: >>Oh dear, Mike. I believe I'm the only one who has discussed the marxist dissenters. << This may be true about the JMDL (I'm not sure it is but let it pass) but I was talking about dissenting voices in general, "including on this list". 'Including', but not 'exclusively' on this list, and not specifically to you. Like you, I also read things other than this wonderful list. >>I have seen much written in the past few months (outside the list) that has come from marxist sources and then seen people who don't know the source grab onto and believe the propaganda.<< Do you think everything that comes from marxist sources is propaganda? Do you think that nothing the US government publishes or produces is propaganda? Do you think people are so gullible? Why don't you credit people with intelligence? Do you think nobody is able to read information from many sources and see the bigger picture or form an opinion? >>My context was the marxist groups in the U.S. who are against our current actions simply IMO because they are against anything that the U.S. does to begin with and are sometimes moved more by anarchist or other motivations more than anything else<< Do you really think marxists and anarchists are the same thing? If not, why do you think marxists would be moved by anarchist motivations? If you do, why? >>To at least clarify my own viewpoint, I do NOT think "any" dissenting voice is "undemocratic," "marxist" or "un-American." Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions.<< Don't you? Are they? So why do you imply that these people who are 'entitled to their beliefs and opinions' are duped by propaganda when the opinion they form does not coincide with your own? My comments regarding dissent would have been stronger if I had read today's papers before sending the mail on Friday. Today (re-printed in the Spanish press) I see that around 40 Hollywood executives were meeting government officials in order to be briefed about what material they might like to contribute to the war effort. If this is not propaganda, then my name is Thomas Jefferson. It will be interesting to see what people like Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins, and others of the Hollywood left have to say on this. Even more reason to see 'One of the Hollywood Ten'. I include the piece at the end of this mail. I'm sure there must be thousands of Marxists working in the USA and perhaps they have been doing so for many years, many of them for the whole of their working lives. Has the USA fallen to communism? No. Have these people made enormous contributions to US society in many fields, such as Education, Labour, Showbusiness and many others? Yes. Do all marxists wish to see the US become a workers' republic? I doubt it. Given the above, should we dump all marxists into the same pot and say that they are trying to bring down the US government or are against 'anything that the U.S. does to begin with'? I don't think so. Are all marxists against the war? I don't know. Do you? As mack rightly said in another context, >>all people are different, even homosexuals. We do not all think alike, are not all alike, and in some cases, have very little in common.<< It's tough to disagree with this and I would suggest that 'marxist' would serve equally well in place of 'homosexuals', as would 'jonilistas' or 'American' or anything else. >>I can't recall if I have seen Salt of the Earth but it sounds familiar and like it is a classic.<< It is a classic and I hope you get to see it, and the Hollywood Ten film too. mike NPIMH - Coltrane 'Africa/Brass Sessions' Here's the story "US showbiz executives to do their bit with war summit" Duncan Campbell in Los Angeles Guardian Friday November 9, 2001 Some of the most powerful figures in the entertainment industry will assemble for a "war summit" in Beverly Hills on Sunday to discuss ways of assisting the White House in getting its message across to the world. Around 40 senior showbusiness executives will look at everything from possible plot lines in films to morale-boosting public service announcements as ways of winning the propaganda war. Karl Rove, George Bush's senior adviser and the man widely credited with masterminding his presidential campaign, will meet senior figures in the film and television industries at a private gathering in a Beverly Hills hotel. Invitations signed by Jack Valenti, chairman of the Motion Picture Association of America, have been sent to senior media figures such as Rupert Murdoch and Sumner Redstone of Viacom. A key figure in arranging the summit was Gerald Parsky, who ran the Bush campaign in California. Mr Valenti's co-hosts will be Sherry Lansing of Paramount studios and Jonathan Dolgen, the chairman of Viacom Entertainment group. The White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said Mr Rove would brief executives from DreamWorks, cable TV channel HBO, Showtime, and other companies about the themes the government is emphasising, including "tolerance, courage, and patriotism". He said that one way Hollywood could assist might be through public service announcements such as those used to warn children of the dangers of drugs or to stop drunk driving. There would be no attempt to impose storylines on film-makers. "It's important to hear what Hollywood has on its mind. These are judgments that Hollywood makes. These are their movies. These are their TV shows." Mr Valenti said: "I heartily endorse Hollywood getting involved to help out in any way we can in this war." He said that if a storyline was good, it was appropriate to make movies that would "show the heroism of American armed forces". The move follows growing concern that the US is losing the propaganda war in Asia and the Middle East and that support for the bombing campaign is starting to slip in Europe. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 19:01:39 EST From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Noel by Joan Baez re-released NJC When I started the thread on Christmas CDs, there were several of you who agreed with me that you really liked "Noel" by Joan Baez. FYI, it has been re-released with new songs. The following songs have been added: The first Noel We three kings (instrumental) Virgin Mary (a beautiful song) Good Christian Kings (instrumental) Away in a manger (French version - vs. what was originally on there which is English) all of the original tracks are still there. it's copyright 2001. of course I bought it asap and I consider it worth the money (about 16.00) though I had the original on CD too. wonder why they didn't release all of the tracks in the first place? cost constraints? Mary People hurry by so quickly Don't they hear the melodies In the chiming and the clicking And the laughing harmonies - - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 19:10:13 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Hollywood? No big deal NJC Mike, I would respectfully suggest that worries about Hollywood being co-opted by the administration are among the lesser things to worry about these days. Of a little greater concern to me: Ashcroft, attorney general. There were those of us who vigorously opposed his confirmation. Last week he sought to use federal authority to over-ride the state of Oregon's law - twice passed by Oregon voters - that allows under certain limited circumstances a doctor to give a lethal injection to a terminally ill patient who requests the same as a relief from pain. Oregon has gotten a temporary injunction to block Ashcroft. As far as the usual "conservative" position of state rights, Ashcroft is the poster boy for hypocrisy - as well as for a nice violation of the conservative doctrine of non-governmental intrusion into people's private lives. Ashcroft's ploy was to reverse a decision by Janet Reno (how I miss her). Reno said that the feds would not take away an Oregon's doctor's license to prescribe narcotics and other drugs of certain categories, if an Oregon doctor was in compliance with the Oregon law. Ashcroft has reversed, saying that any doctor who follows Oregon law will lose his federal license to prescribe those pharmaceuticals. Maybe 70-80 people have opted for this procedure. Other than the intense horrible suffering of a small number of a people, the greater threat is to the general practice of medicine to the dying. Since Ashcroft proposes to audit the prescriptions written by all doctors in Oregon, the threat is that if any doctor prescribes, say, morphine in Ashcroft determines is suspicious amounts, that doctor will be lose their license. Not talking suicide here, but pain relief in modern medicine. Managed health care - bureaucrats in this administration deciding if your grandmother's doctor wrote an Rx a little heavy on morphine so that her pain could be eased while she died. So any doctor is going to be hesitant to write prescriptions that the doctor feels is in the best interests of the patient for pain relief because Ashcroft has chosen to try and over-ride the Oregon law. And that is his better action of the week. Ashcroft's other decision was to allow the government to listen in on all conversations between attorneys and their clients for those held in detention and/or arrest for anything related to September 11th. That eliminates a whole series of civil liberties - the right to confidentiality between the accused and their lawyer, the right to effective counsel and effective defense, the right to a presumption of innocence. Things like this take away the very essence of what it means to be America. One the rights of the accused are limited because the accused are unpopular - we have been down that road before, and it is always a dark and ugly road that defiles what America means. Meanwhile, Bush in a little noticed executive order last week issued an executive order to override federal law which says that all presidential papers must ultimately be made public. After all, it is our presidency, our government; this was a Watergate reform, to ensure that the president could not act in a way that is not ultimately accountable to the American people. The particular circumstances of this new Bush order involve some papers of the Reagan-Bush administration that they want to forever prevent access to by historians and scholars - and the people (as in government of the people, by the people, for the people - those people). Daniel Schorr was apoplectic on NPR the other day about what this Bush is trying to hide from us of the Reagan-Bush administration - since many of the cast of characters in the same, and since these documents covered by G Bush's order would reveal if the first Bush committed perjury when he said he was out of the loop on Iran Contra. Like Daniel Shorr, I wonder why this Bush is trying to override federal law to hide things that by law should be made public from the Reagan-Bush administration. But then again, in the current New Yorker, there is a little item that the Reagan-Bush administration used the bin Laden multinational corporation, bin Laden assistance via Salem bin Laden, Osama's older brother who was then head of the bin Laden Group (Salem since died in Texas in a private plane air crash) to launder money ($34 million) during Iran-Contra. So who knows what this administration is trying to hide, but is has got to be really good stuff. So Mike, to worry about Hollywood selling out right now - not a big deal. Hollywood already has been a patsy for the current administration even before this administration was put into power. After the bombing of the two US embassies, Clinton launched missile attacks on positions where intelligence showed Osama to be. Evidently those missiles just missed Osama - that is, those missiles which hit their intended target. I remember a certain governor of Texas who joined with other Republicans and the media wits in general in denouncing Clinton for going after Osama bin Laden - yes, denouncing Clinton for going after bin Laden- with the term "Wag the Dog" used nonstop to mock Clinton for supposedly considering Osama bin Laden a major threat to the US only because Clinton wanted to distract from the Lewinsky stuff. (the Rev) Vince, now reading "Betrayal: German Churches and the Holocaust" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:20:25 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Congrats, Dreams & Pornaramic Views (NJC) > Colin you are right, but it still made me LMAO! > Although I am not a fan of gay male porn, I have heard > many lesbians say they do like it. That I don't get > at all, however, lesbian porn is sooooo bad, perhaps > it's just the lesser of 2 evils. > I haven't known any lesbians who watch gay male porn but I have known str8 women who get off on it. why not? str8 men get off on watching women together. Mind you they are always part of a str8 film and look appalling.Am I right to assume that lesbians do not want their women to look like cheap versions of Pamela Anderson? bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 19:22:15 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Noel by Joan Baez re-released NJC TimandMaryPowers@aol.com wrote: > When I started the thread on Christmas CDs, there were several of you who > agreed with me that you really liked "Noel" by Joan Baez. FYI, it has been > re-released with new songs. The following songs have been added: > > The first Noel > etc. You mean the geniuses in the record company released an album named "Noel" that did *not* have "The First Noel" on it? It sounds like a great album nonetheless and I will have to look for it - Baez has a great voice and great arrangements and I have to believe that she did real musicianship on her Christmas album as opposed to the usual Christmas schmaltz... so thanks for the info, Mary, as always! (the Rev) Vince, whose favorite Christmas song of the 20th century was Merry XMas (War is Over), favorite album is Streisand's Christmas album, and whose favorite Christmas carol is, with gender-neutral title, "God Rest Ye Merry Gentle Folk, let nothing you dismay..." and loves the Messiah - every last baroque note of it - and rocks out on "Handel's Messiah - A Soulful Celebration" released in maybe 1994? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:26:56 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Congrats, Dreams & Pornaramic Views (NJC) this was supposed to be private. i rubbed the joni bit out. don't know how it got back in. colin wrote: > > Colin you are right, but it still made me LMAO! > > Although I am not a fan of gay male porn, I have heard > > many lesbians say they do like it. That I don't get > > at all, however, lesbian porn is sooooo bad, perhaps > > it's just the lesser of 2 evils. > > > > I haven't known any lesbians who watch gay male porn but I have known > str8 women who get off on it. why not? str8 men get off on watching > women together. Mind you they are always part of a str8 film and look > appalling.Am I right to assume that lesbians do not want their women to > look like cheap versions of Pamela Anderson? > bw > colin - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #543 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?