From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #540 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, November 10 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 540 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: November 9 [les@jmdl.com] RE: Today's Articles: November 9 njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: weird NJC [colin ] RE: weird NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: stereotypes NJC (long) [colin ] Re: weird NJC [colin ] email problems njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re:Gay thing/Babs NJC ["Ron Greer" ] psalm 23 njc ["Ron Greer" ] Madonna NJC ["Ron Greer" ] Re: TV Land Honors Joni ["hell" ] thank you for the daffodils (njc) [Anne Sandstrom ] NJC Re: TV Land Honors Joni [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Child abuse NJC [TimandMaryPowers@aol.com] (NJC) Some thoughts about Veterans Day that came to me in my sleep-- ["Lo] Re: Singing about Joni [Michael Yarbrough ] Re: NJC: We Belong Together [Fauchja@aol.com] Extremely rare Sandy (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Re: psalm 23 njc [FredNow@aol.com] Artist Perhaps of Interest: No Joni Content [ssimpson ] cold njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: stereotypes NJC (long) ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: stereotypes NJC [cvickery@danielrealty.com] Re: Singing about Joni [FredNow@aol.com] Re: stereotypes NJC (long) ["mack watson-bush" ] Fwd: Message from Marco (Italy) [Bounced Message ] Re: cold njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Message from Marco (Italy) ["mack watson-bush" ] RE: cold njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] favorite season/allergies NJC [TimandMaryPowers@aol.com] Re: cold njc ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: favorite season/allergies NJC ["mack watson-bush" ] Laura Nyro(NJC) [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: readers of the world, unite! NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: readers of the world, unite! NJC ["Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Today's Articles: November 9 njc oh les!!!! this story is priceless!!!! again and again, thank you. wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de les@jmdl.com Enviado el: Viernes, 09 de Noviembre de 2001 05:10 a.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Today's Articles: November 9 On November 9 these articles were published: 1995: "Cat Fight: Chrissie Hynde Hits Carly Simon At Joni Mitchell Show" - Addicted To Noise website (Review - Concert, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/951109atn.cfm 1999: "Joni Mitchell To Sing On Next Album From Jazz Drummer Brian Blade" - AllStar Website (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/991109as.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 650 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 08:22:16 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: weird NJC I have mentioned it before so I won't go into a long piece about it but my road trip around New England in 97 was all the more wonderful and exciting precisely because it was so cold and there was so much snow! I got caught in a blizzard in the Vermont mountains, saw icebergs floating down the St Lawrence in Quebec City, saw many frozen lakes. Never have I experienced such cold-minus 30 at times. Lovely! mack watson-bush wrote: > colin, I am so glad that you are happy with the snow and and doubly happy I > am not there. Our forecast for the evening is a low of the high 40's and I > can deal with that but not too happily. > Mack - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 08:22:59 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: weird NJC > I'm really not the center of the universe, glad you have learned that. we can't BOTH be the centre of the universe! > and things are never as bad as they seem. > > Reuben - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 05:26:46 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: weird NJC oh mack!!!! how can you say that! blasphemy! sacrilege! i adore jack frost and i thrive only in subzero weather. i wish i were in north dakota right now. and it's not even really hot here yet. come january, i'll be crying you a river. wallyK, i love coffee i love tea i love icebergs and they love me. mack watson-bush wrote: > colin, I am so glad that you are happy with the snow and and doubly happy I > am not there. Our forecast for the evening is a low of the high 40's and I > can deal with that but not too happily. > Mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 08:29:59 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: stereotypes NJC (long) When I was young, I was not into 'gay things'. I was 16 before I got into music and then it was Joni and Carly. Nevr was into musicals except for the SOM. Onl7y as I have gotten older have I become more myself and i guess being into knitting and sewing might be considered a gay thing! And my dogs, maybe? and the cats? well there are many str8 men into the same breeds of dog and cat. I love Bette Midler. I only like female singers. I tend to like 'chick flicks' mainly. But I am not into fashion, am not a good housekeepr as in cleaning. Howver, the most obviously gay thing about me is that I have been in love with the most wonderful man for the last 21yeas(almost). John howver, who is very masculine and no one thinks is gay, is really into Opera, most of the Divas(Babs etc), Royalty, musicals, Piaf, Callas, and basically a lot of theings assocaiteds with gay people, well gay men anyway. Actually, not at all sure what is supposed to be lesbian stuff apart from Jodi Foster! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 08:30:56 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: weird NJC Glad it isn't just me-I love winter. Wally Kairuz wrote: > oh mack!!!! how can you say that! blasphemy! sacrilege! i adore jack frost > and i thrive only in subzero weather. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 01:11:40 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: email problems njc I am having major problems sending emails to the list by using the reply...so I just resent a bunch when they didn't show up on the digest...my apologies if any are doubled... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 12:19:44 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: Re:Gay thing/Babs NJC Hi >>From: Chorando6@aol.com >>Subject: Re:Gay thing/Babs >>I have to say that I do, as a gay man love babs. Always have and always will. >> I>M>H>O I think its an archetypal thing and the combination of ugly beauty, >>vulnerable wounded strength, that fabulous over the top acting and a voice to >>die for like no other. There are qualities that run through all the fag icons but how can you *truly* appreciate her if you dont appreciate that sexy body ??? :-) ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 13:12:28 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: psalm 23 njc Hi >>wally wrote >>psalm 23 has always been very special to me. my appreciation of that psalm was much increased, once i finally got that "i shall not want" part. up to the age of around 30 i could never understand why the writer of the psalm didnt want the shepherd he was talking about?? i was absent from school the day they taught it to us, too embarassed to ask the question, and just figured it had to make sense somehow cause everybody else seemed to get it :-) then one day - a blinding flash of inspiration & i got it!! (kind of like a joni lyric??) ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 13:18:41 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: Madonna NJC hi >>lama wrote >>Or her fashion sense??? Or because of fine moral character?? I never will >>"get it". BTW, is her 15 minutes up yet? >>Fingers crossed, follow the link somebody (Kate??) posted to the groovelily site, ( www.groovelily.com )download the "open letter to madonna" track, & have a good chuckle!! also - all the tracks are well worth downloading & listening to if you havent yet. ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 00:33:35 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: TV Land Honors Joni Bob wrote: > Susan, the intro to that episode was a dead giveaway... > > Come and listen to my story 'bout a gal named Joan, > She was an only child, Canadian born and grown > But then one day she was strummin' on a uke, > And all her teenage friends they began to jive & juke > (Folk music that is...major chords, 4/4 time) I'd copy the whole thing, but I'd be laughing too much to type! Honestly Bob, where/how/why do you come up with these things!?! This is priceless! Hell - still chuckling! ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 07:37:56 -0500 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: thank you for the daffodils (njc) Thank you so much for the story of the daffodils. It's just what I needed right now. (I feel like I've taken a few steps backward in the healing process, plus I've managed to get into something of a flame war about the quality of what we produce at work, and I've been just generally cranky. Oh, and the 120 daffoldil bulbs that I did plant - the squirrels dug up every single one! My garden is now just a bunch of little holes!) So, I guess I'll plant more daffodils in the spring... lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 07:47:46 -0500 From: Chuck Eisenhardt Subject: NJC: We Belong Together I REALLY like Rikki's 'We Belong Together'....that line about 'the only angels we have left are written right before us'....and of course one of the two best drum entrances of all time....along with Elton's 'Don't Let the Sun'... btw my Internet provider has been melting down again. Don't even think about signing on with inter.net....We 're moving to a new service, which will mean a new mailbox soon at chucke.net....details to follow, but I guess I'll be chuck@chucke.net.... ChuckE ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 08:13:02 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: TV Land Honors Joni <> It comes from years of reading MAD magazine, Hell...(Cartman voice on) It warped my fragile little mind! (Cartman voice off) Glad I could make you chuckle, and even cooler that having met you I can envision your beaming grin! :~) Bob NP: Joan Armatrading, "Love & Affection" live '83 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 08:55:04 EST From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Child abuse NJC In a message dated 11/8/01 1:19:22 AM, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: >The best way to comntinue in conflict is to contniue to minimise, ignore, >deny the abuse of children. Here are a couple of resources from a local therapist (Washington, DC) who has dedicated her career to helping adults sexually abused as children. Her name is Christine Courtois and she is clinical director of a center for treatment of post-traumatic stress disorders resulting from child abuse. She has written several books on the topic: Recollections of Sexual Abuse (1999): addresses the recovered memory controversy http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0393702812/qid=1005313630/sr=1-2/ref=sr _1_10_2/002-2929706-5107203 Healing the Incest Wound (1988) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0393313565/qid=1005313861/sr=1-1/ref=sr _1_6_1/002-2929706-5107203 It's hard to believe that someone could write compassionately and non-sensationally about incest but she manages it. Link to hospital information: http://www.thecenteratpiw.com/about_thecenter.htm In a better world such resources would not be needed. Mary People hurry by so quickly Don't they hear the melodies In the chiming and the clicking And the laughing harmonies - - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 07:09:44 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: (NJC) Some thoughts about Veterans Day that came to me in my sleep-- Judy Higgins is a veteran of the Air National Guard and a friend of many years. She was kind enough to share this with me, and I'd like to share it with all of you. Lori Fye - ----- ----- ----- Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 13:38:54 +0000 This was written by a friend of mine, a former Navy man, and now a stringer reporter. I feel fortunate to have made his acquaintance and wanted to share this piece that he wrote, with you, my friends and family. Judy Higgins "Plans are simply dreams, put into action." - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Beth & Scot Celley" This quite literally came to me in my sleep. Please forgive my pomposity: Let the word go forth, from this time and place, to friend and foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans, born in this century, tempered by war, disciplined by a hard and bitter peace, and unwilling to witness nor permit the same undoing of those human rights to which this nation has always been committed and to which we are committed at home and around the world. It has been more than 40 years since President John F. Kennedy spoke those stirring words during his Inaugural Address. It has been a little less than that since I fell in love with his voice and those words in my parent's home in Carteret, New Jersey. And little did we realize at the time that he was speaking of what we today call The Greatest Generation. We have difficulty placing that young face, with the experienced veterans we come across in our daily lives today. The sacrifices they made at the time to defeat the evil those who would not hesitate to crush us cannot be over stated. One of my father's prized possessions is a picture of my grandfather, taken shortly by the Boston Globe shortly after the attack on Pearl Harbor, marching off through the streets of Boston to the train station to enlist in the Navy. On his shoulders was his young son, my father. My grandfather, and quite literally millions of others, dropped everything they were doing and changed their lives to fight the evil that threatened our existence then. It is almost unthinkable today to us how much lives were changed. Everything- from the major league baseball games that we followed in the papers, to the movies we watched, to those who worked in the stores and factories here, to the availability of common things we take for granted today, such as butter- was affected. Nothing in daily life was left untouched. The gruesome horrors faced on battlefields and oceans throughout the world also cannot be overstated. Many, understandably, had difficulty coping with their exposure to such ugliness for years to come. When they returned home, few spouses and offspring would hear what the war was really like; it was just too horrible to tell. And yet they left what was comfortable and known and did so with a lot of fear and a lot of faith to face an enemy that threatened us all. In that same Inaugural Address, President Kennedy also said, I do not believe that any of us would exchange places with any other people or any other generation. The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light this country and all who serve it. And the glow from that fire will truly light the world. We are still basking in the glow from that fire that was lit on battlefield and ocean by that generation. Our debt to them is immeasurable. How can we thank them? By making sure that the fire, which they lit with so much faith and wisdom and courage, will not be extinguished. Today we face an enemy that wants to extinguish us as a people just as much as the Nazis or Japanese did six decades ago. It is for us, this generation of Americans, to marshal and devote every strand of our lives into preserving that flame. Not just for Americans but for all people, for all time. History demands no less from us. Those who will inhabit the future, many autumns from now in the invisible future, depend on nothing less. ~ ===== If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. -Catherine Aird- Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 07:10:16 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: Re: Singing about Joni Prince, "The Ballad of Dorothy Parker" on _Sign of the Times_. - --Michael NP: Mary J. Blige, _No More Drama_ - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > < about Joni (or that Joni's mentioned in their > songs/music, or even just a Joni theme from her > songs)?>> > > Neil Young's "Sweet Joan From Saskatoon", Dave Van > Ronk's "Song For Joni", Alanis Morrisette mentions > her in a song, there's a couple of others... > > Bob ===== ____________________________________________________________ "Greetings cards routinely tell us everybody deserves love. No. Everybody deserves clean water. Not everybody deserves love all the time." - --Zadie Smith, _White Teeth_ Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 11:26:00 EST From: Fauchja@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: We Belong Together We Belong Together and Living it up are GREAT!!! But we've missed my favorite - Woody & Dutch on the Slow Train to Peking. Fauchja ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 17:02:07 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Extremely rare Sandy (NJC) Thought some on the list might be interested in news of a new CD release of one of the ultimate Sandy Denny- related rarities; the "Strawberry Music Sampler No. 1" - the long lost out-takes from the first 1967 Strawbs album - with Sandy singing an early version of 'Who Knows Where the Time Goes' - it appears that just 99 copies of this record were originally pressed on 12" vinyl as a publishing demo back in 1969, and according to the liner notes of the new CD, it's one of the UK's most collectible records, currently valued at around 500 UK pounds each. The new CD edition is available from Strawbs original member, Dave Cousins at Witchwood Records, see http://www.witchwoodrecords.co.uk/strawbs_sampler.htm UK 12.00 pounds ; US $16.50; Canada $24.00 all the best PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 12:04:41 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: psalm 23 njc "Wally Kairuz" >psalm 23 has always been very special to me. Then you might be interested in a brand new album released by singer/songwriter Ingrid Graudins called BRAVE AGAIN which features a beautiful arrangement of Psalm 23. Ingrid is a wonderful singer who has sung on some of records as well as several of those by Jonatha Brooke (The Story), with whom she recorded and toured for a number of years up until the most recent album. You can check it out at ingridg.com - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 11:33:40 -0600 From: ssimpson Subject: Artist Perhaps of Interest: No Joni Content Last night I went to see Jennifer Daniels, accompanied by her husband Jeff, at the Vintage Bar here in Houston. Pete, Vernon, the singer-songwriter Ken Gaines, and I were really the only people who came. Three other people wandered in and out, mainly for drinks. Jennifer and Jeff live on Lookout Mountain in Tennessee (Chattanooga); they have a tiny cabin and a little pool from a creek. Jennifer's music sounds rather like a combination of Joni Mitchell and Natalie Merchant, though she said she didn't listen to Joni 'til about 2 years ago. There's a similar sensibility, though, very poetic. She said that she largely grew up on poetry because as children they were rarely allowed to listen to the radio. Jennifer and Jeff played their hearts out despite the small (though very appreciative) turnout, which is a commitment I always admire. She had some better bookings in Austin and next will play Uncle Calvin's in Dallas, which is a good venue. She mentioned that Eddie, owner of the famous Eddie's Attic in Atlanta, is going to sell, mainly because he has another baby now and may need a more secure income. It would be a real shame if Eddie's didn't continue, for it's the breeding or testing ground for a lot of artists such as Jennifer and the wonderful Caroline Aiken. Anyway, Jennifer's a very lovely woman with lovely music, and she was very honored that I saw a Joni likeness. Toni Price cancelled tonight's Duck performance because her guitarist, Champ Hood, passed away just a few days ago and the service, in Austin, is Sunday. Champ played with Lyle Lovett, Walter Hyatt, and others besides Toni. He had lung cancer (heavy smoker) and was only 49 at the time of his death. Suzanne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 12:03:10 -0600 From: cvickery@danielrealty.com Subject: Re: Artist Perhaps of Interest, now Toni Price NJC <> Hi Suzanne..... Though I'm sorry to hear about her guitarist, it's good to hear mention of Toni Price. She and my girlfriend, Gisele, traveled in the same musical circle in Austin and became friends, and Gisele still covers one of Toni's covers ("Richest One") and gets great audience response every time. We have a couple of Toni's CDs (one live, where she really shines) - she has a real knack for picking great songs. Since Gisele left Austin, she'd lost track of Toni, and will be excited to know that she's out there and still making great music. Thanks for the update! And for the uninitiated, you might want to take a look at Ms. Price. The lady rocks! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 14:19:55 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Artist Perhaps of Interest: No Joni Content She mentioned that Eddie, > owner of the famous Eddie's Attic in Atlanta, is going to sell, mainly because > he has another baby now and may need a more secure income. It would be a real > shame if Eddie's didn't continue, for it's the breeding or testing ground for > a lot of artists such as Jennifer and the wonderful Caroline Aiken I have no doubt in my mind that Eddie's will continue, being the institution that it is. It is my feeling though, and I know this is shared by a lot of other musicians I know in Atlanta, that the best thing that could happen for Eddie's is for some new blood to come in and stir things up, shake things around a little bit, give it some new life. As much as a success as it has been, it is this same success that has limited what Eddie's could be and instead of continuing to grow and develop, Eddie's has seemed to stick with what is comfortable and familiar, falling into a niche, and becoming somewhat predictable. Not to say that I haven't seen some wonderful shows there including the aforementioned Jennifer Daniels, and other artists, however, for several years and from its inception, I attended the Eddie's Attic open mics almost religously, have personally dealt with Eddie, and it is from this experience that I have drawn my conclusions. In any case, I am really interested to see what unfolds in the next year. Victor in Athens Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 19:52:02 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: Artist Perhaps of Interest: No Joni Content Suzanne ssimpson@bcm.tmc.edu wrote > Last night I went to see Jennifer Daniels, accompanied > by her husband Jeff, at the Vintage Bar here in Houston> >Jennifer's music sounds rather like a combination of >Joni Mitchell and Natalie Merchant Thanks for the recommendation Suzanne - I shall look out for her. >Jennifer and Jeff played their hearts out > despite the small (though very appreciative) >turnout, which is a commitment I always admire. Sting told a great story on a UK chat show (Parkinson) last week. He said that when The Police first toured the States, their very first gig had just three people in the audience. A bit disappointed, he nevertheless invited them to sit down the front and chatted with them throughout the band's full-on high energy set. It wasn't until the end of the evening that he found out that these three guys were DJs from three different radio stations in the city - and each one promised to play The Police on their shows the next day. Goes to show you never can tell! PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 09:48:19 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: NJC Re: TV Land Honors Joni Bob wrote: > It comes from years of reading MAD magazine, Hell...(Cartman > voice on) It warped my fragile little mind! (Cartman voice off) OK, I understand now! I've got about 100 Mad magazines (and a few "Cracked", and even a couple of "Crazy") sitting in a cupboard - I used to LOVE reading them. My high school history teacher (who was a Catholic priest) even recommended we read them for the satire! The quality has gone down-hill over the years, and they're not as good as they used to be, but there were some hilarious articles! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 15:15:44 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: cold njc Wally wrote: > oh mack!!!! how can you say that! blasphemy! sacrilege! i adore jack frost > and i thrive only in subzero weather. i wish i were in north dakota right > now. and it's not even really hot here yet. come january, i'll be crying you > a river. Guess it is all though Texas Panhandle winters Wally. I hate snow. I hate the cold. I hate the mess snow makes when it melts. I hate blizzards. I hate awakening and having to walk around in a cold house. I hated waiting in line for the heater when I was a child and constantly getting bumped out of the way because I was the smallest. I hate having to put on a bunch of clothes to go outside when it is cold. I hate the north wind. I hate winter. I hate my heating bill each winter. I hate the ice on my windshield. I hate having to scrape it off and having to wait until the defroster will clear the window. I hate cold, dreary days where clouds are everywhere; gloomy and sad. I hate the trees, bare and naked without leaves. I hate seeing my pets shiver. Give me 70-80 degrees, forever. Mack > > colin, I am so glad that you are happy with the snow and and doubly happy > I > > am not there. Our forecast for the evening is a low of the high 40's and > I > > can deal with that but not too happily. > > Mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 15:33:58 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: stereotypes NJC (long) Reuben wrote: > This whole thing got me thinking...I made a flip comment about Streisand=gay a couple of days ago, and several people got up in arms about stereotyping. Maybe irked was the wrong word. Maybe confounded would have been better, or perplexed. Grace Jones, Madonna, Boy George, Cyndi Lauper, (and the one the made my dad the most uncomfortable) Bette Davis...I later realized as I grew up were often labeled as "gay icons", and I figured oh well, makes sense to me. Grace Jones--- never really figured her out. Boy George- didn't care too much for him and thought he was an embarrassment to the gay world. I felt as if he was a definite step back for homosexuals and that the straight world would assume that all or most homosexuals were like him. Cyndi Lauper- Kind of liked her but not enough to buy her music and didn't even know she had a gay following. Bette Davis- I didn't know she was a gay icon either. She was okay, pretty good actress. Diana Ross and the Supremes- never wanted to be Diana but loved their sound. Their harmony, the words and emotions, and the whole package. Show tunes- some are pretty good, some are pretty bad. Judy- nough said Barbra- ditto Bette- never really dug her that much until the rose and that was because of Janis. Now, really like her a lot. chick flicks- like some, not others. Never wanted to be a woman or dress up like one. Love to play basketball and tennis and haven't been averse to throwing an elbow or two when needed, or smacking someone in the face while they were at net, if they deserved it. Like Colin, not that great of a housekeeper. Like it relatively neat but no Felix Unger. Don't cook. Don't want to and definitely don't want to have to clean it up afterwards. Don't want to have sex with EVERY SINGLE MAN that I see. Has always amazed me that some really gross guys think that homosexuals want them. You must be kidding. Don't like to be called gay. Not gay, homosexual. Hate that word. Don't have a designation like top or bottom and hate those kind of terms too. Just a person. I like tenderness and sweetness and moments together. Not interested in who is sleeping with whom and wonder why everyone is so interested in who I might be sleeping with. Just a person like anyone else who happens to get turned on by some men. Everyone is different, including homosexuals, and those images and preconceptions are just stereotypical. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 15:36:38 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: stereotypes NJC (long) Colin said: Actually, not at all sure what is supposed to be lesbian stuff apart from Jodi Foster! > I found that an interesting topic and would wonder about that too. Just exactly what is lesbian stuff? Mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 21:58:18 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: stereotypes NJC (long) > Boy George- didn't care too much for him and thought he was an embarrassment > to the gay world. I felt as if he was a definite step back for homosexuals > and that the straight world would assume that all or most homosexuals were > like him. You know, many gay people would find this very offensive. It is a common attitude amongst 'str8 acting' gays. It really just speaks of not being comfortavle with your own sexuality. It is sad that we as gay people discriminate in this way. Efeminate gay men are who they are too and should not be ostracised for it. > > > > Everyone is different, including homosexuals, yes we are and some of us are effeminate. I admire the flamboyant effeminate gay men. they don't hide behind a str8 exterior. they are out there. If I don't say so, I usallu pass. But I try and make sure that doesn't happen. I don't like people making assumptions about me and when someone talks to me as if I am srt8 I put them str8 fairly quickly! There was a good scene about this gay prjuice towards effeminate men in that film with De Nira and Christopher whatisname. Can't recall the title of the film eithetr but it is recent and excellent. > and those images and > preconceptions are just stereotypical. > > Mack - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 16:02:14 -0600 From: cvickery@danielrealty.com Subject: Re: stereotypes NJC Colin said: <> And Mack added: <> Shall I tackle this one, JMDL sistahs? *IF* (and that's a big "if")Bette and Judy Garland and Barbra, etc etc etc, are "gay icons" which appeal to male homosexuals, then the following celebs appeal (in the same stereotypical manner) to the females, because they, in their various degrees of outness, have rallied behind the lesbo flag! Jodie Foster, as mentioned Ellen deGeneres The Indigo Girls Melissa Etheridge Rosie O'Donnell Angelina Jolie and to some degree, Cher and Madonna, for their support of alternate lifestyles, and Sharon Stone, for her fearlessness in "playing one on TV." Not an exhaustive list, but hopefully at least a partial explantion of "lesbian stuff." Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 17:10:23 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Singing about Joni Nuriel Tobias wrote: >Do you know of artists that wrote/composed songs about Joni (or that Joni's >mentioned in their songs/music, or even just a Joni theme from her songs)? It's an instrumental-only song, but I wrote and recorded "Song For Joni Mitchell" on my first album, MUSAIC, released by the Simon and Bard Group on the Flying Fish label in 1980. - -Fred Simon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 16:09:32 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: stereotypes NJC (long) Colin wrote: > You know, many gay people would find this very offensive. It is a common > attitude amongst 'str8 acting' gays. It really just speaks of not being > comfortavle with your own sexuality. It is sad that we as gay people > discriminate in this way. Efeminate gay men are who they are too and should not > be ostracised for it. Well, that might be the case if I were referring to his being effeminate, which I was not. I didn't say anything about his being effeminate but have stated before that I have had many drag queens for friends, and they were most certainly effeminate. As for being or not being uncomfortable with one's sexuality, I would suggest you not play psychologist. I also remember you chastising someone not long ago for saying something about you and you told them to not do so for they didn't know you. Well, ditto. Furthermore, I would imagine that quite a few people would find being called trailer trash pretty darn offensive. I was referring to his self destructive lifestyle, which is no secret and though the things he did, in that regard, were no different than what some heterosexuals might have done, they would not remember that, only that he was gay. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 16:21:57 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: stereotypes NJC thanks Cindy. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 13:56:07 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Fwd: Message from Marco (Italy) >From: "M. B." >Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 08:37:04 +0100 > >Good morning, friends of JMDL! > >My name is Marco and I'm wraiting from Venice (Italy). >Excuse me for my terrible english, I hope that you undertand what I'm >trying to write! > >Compliments for your beautiful site, I think that is one of the best on >the world dedicated to an artist! > >I read the "tape tree page" and I'd like to receve everything! In >particular the seven cd and the video (PAL version). >Please, is it possible? >How I can get it? >Do you have an italian friend of the tree who can contact me (in italian, >if is possible)? >Please, help me! >Of course all the material (cd, video, tapes...) will be ONLY for my own >pleasure (NO BOOTLEGS!!! I hate the people who does it!!!) > >My email is: cush63@hotmail.com > >I have another question: why, in the list of the songs to vote, I have not >found the beautiful "Real good for free"? >I'd like to vote this song! > >Thanks for your amazing work in the JMDL! > >Ciao! > >Marco. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 17:09:10 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: cold njc "gene mock" > CALIFORNIA!!!! > >I love that Gene. hehehehe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 17:11:02 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Message from Marco (Italy) Marco, welcome. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 17:03:16 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: testing 123 testing ... did this get through? ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 22:41:47 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: cold njc i guess that i have some hormonal problem or something, but i get the most dreadful seasonal depression in SPRING!!!!!! the lengthening of the days makes me phobic and listless. i love winter in southern argentina, especially tierra del fuego, where the days are so brief and never really more than just a twilightish thing. i like sunny days only in winter. the dry, crisp winter days in northeastern usa or in southwestern argentina. i like all things wintry: frost, ice, blustery winds, blizzards, frozen bays, snow in all its varieties. i even don't mind slush as much as other people do. i also seem to be abnormally vulnerable to hot weather and freakishly resistant to cold weather. i almost never wear down coats or hats, except when the wind chill factor is brutal [this is a very windy city]. when i arrive in new york in january and it's 6 am and the wind is howling i can't help but smile and wag my tail wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 21:16:02 EST From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: favorite season/allergies NJC In a message dated 11/9/01 5:43:02 PM, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: > i like sunny days only in winter. the >dry, crisp winter days in northeastern usa or in southwestern argentina. >i like all things wintry: frost, ice, blustery winds, blizzards, frozen bays, >snow in all its varieties. Hello, I definitely hate winter. with a passion. even the mild winters we get here in DC. yuck. I hate summer too. here it is so damned hot and humid that it's not enjoyable. the AC is running all the time. Spring is OK now but I've had severe allergies to trees my entire life (15-year veteran of allergy shots and I'm still getting them) and I used to get asthma, sinus infections, colds, etc. The thing about bad allergies is how they make you feel that you want to die. Does anyone know what I mean? It is immensely irritating because everyone extrapolates from their sore throat/runny nose and so they think you are a weakling. They don't know about the congestion, flulike awful 'yuck' feeling, for lack of a better term, and the monster sinus headaches and accompanying stomachaches. Plus the burning eyes, ugh. Hey, did you know it's called 'fever' because the histamine reaction raises body temperature? I got a bunch of skin tests done and my arm felt hot - I thought the doctor heated up the serum - but he explained it was the histamine reaction. So that's why I felt like my blood was burning all those years! the spring allergies used to be called 'rose fever' interesting but useless fact. I love autumn 'season of mists and mellow fruitfulness' the weather is good, the sky is clear blue, the leaves are beautiful. And you know Christmas is coming, but it's too early for the frantic holiday rush. Perhaps not coincidentally, my birthday is in September. Do many of you have your favorite season coinciding with your birthday? Mary People hurry by so quickly Don't they hear the melodies In the chiming and the clicking And the laughing harmonies - - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 18:27:12 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: cold njc This is a pretty accurate description of how I felt when I left Iowa 23 years ago. Mark E. > > Guess it is all though Texas Panhandle winters Wally. I hate snow. I hate > the cold. I hate the mess snow makes when it melts. I hate blizzards. I > hate awakening and having to walk around in a cold house. I hated waiting > in line for the heater when I was a child and constantly getting bumped out > of the way because I was the smallest. I hate having to put on a bunch of > clothes to go outside when it is cold. I hate the north wind. I hate > winter. I hate my heating bill each winter. I hate the ice on my > windshield. I hate having to scrape it off and having to wait until the > defroster will clear the window. I hate cold, dreary days where clouds are > everywhere; gloomy and sad. I hate the trees, bare and naked without > leaves. I hate seeing my pets shiver. > > Give me 70-80 degrees, forever. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 20:32:42 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: favorite season/allergies NJC Darn Mary. I could have written that. definitely hate winter. with a passion. even the mild winters we get here > in DC. yuck. ditto > > I hate summer too. here it is so damned hot and humid that it's not > enjoyable. the AC is running all the time. ditto > > Spring is OK now but I've had severe allergies to trees my entire life > (15-year veteran of allergy shots and I'm still getting them) and I used to > get asthma, sinus infections, colds, etc. The thing about bad allergies is > how they make you feel that you want to die. Does anyone know what I mean? > It is immensely irritating because everyone extrapolates from their sore > throat/runny nose and so they think you are a weakling. They don't know > about the congestion, flulike awful 'yuck' feeling, for lack of a better > term, and the monster sinus headaches and accompanying stomachaches. ditto. Used to really like spring. In the Panhandle, spring and summer are lovely. Not humid at all and the heat is just nice. Here in central Texas the humidity is a killer. Also, hardly any allergens in the Panhandle. Great place to live if not for winter. ove autumn 'season of mists and mellow fruitfulness' the weather is good, > the sky is clear blue, the leaves are beautiful. late autumn which is now is pretty good. The allergies seem to not be as bad but early autumn, late summer is bad. Ragweed and elm eat me up. my birthday is in September. Do many of you have your > favorite season coinciding with your birthday? Makes you a virgo or a libra and they are both groovy. Me, September 30th. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 22:25:28 EST From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: readers of the world, unite! NJC Ok, here it is: a reader's manifesto http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2001/07/myers.htm by a critic at the Atlantic who is tired of modern "literary" fiction. I happen to agree. many of the highly praised authors he discusses are people I have no interest in or tried and really disliked. Mary People hurry by so quickly Don't they hear the melodies In the chiming and the clicking And the laughing harmonies - - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 22:35:51 -0500 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: Re: Birthday card NJC, Some Babs Content I'm relieved that someone in our community remembered the birthday card tradition. I've a very bad track record on birthdays. Mea culpa. Thanks Steve and JJ. It's back to discussing Babs and Madonna now. sigh. Strange that noone wants to discuss fame itself on a discussion list dedicated to an artist. Or discuss Joni's lack of writing. I'm getting burned out on entertainment in general and beginning to question what it means to put an actor or even a songwriter on a pedestal. We don't emulate gardeners or programmers. We don't gossip about school teachers or follow the career of business people. Why atheletes? Whither the pretty face? What does it mean to have charisma? What is it about Whoppee Goldberg that makes me happy and proud? What's it all about, Alfie? (Babs Content) A sad smile, my apology. Sad eyes reaching for the door. Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 23:14:20 -0500 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: Re: rickie!!! njc Mark, Thanks for reminding me about this breathtaking album. She does many amazing things with silence and metaphor on that album. (Rickie Lee Jones' "Pirates") It's perfectly polished and realized but it swings somehow although it's nothing like the 50s jazz that it reminds me of. You hit it on the nail with "Is this album kinda like 'West Side Story' meets Kerouac meets Fellini?" You could definetly segue into Springsteen's "Jungleland" from any cut. "The street's alive in a real death waltz." You betcha and it's so fitting to me now, living in the inner city, surrounded by endless news about terror and plots in Boston and New York. I have it on vinyl and I don't know if the pregnant breaks and deep breathing are audible on CD or not but I love that album. It's one of those that I played for a few months and never tired of it. I'm gonna revisit it now. I feel sentimental now and want familiar things around me. Maybe it's the impending Holidays. Maybe it's paranoia. Maybe it's sensitivity. " What do birds leeeeeave behind of the wings that they came with? or a son in the tree building model planes? skeletons. " (c) 1981 Rickie Lee Jones Lama You said, in part, >>>>>> Omigod, is today Rickie's birthday? The day after Joni's??! You aren't serious!! I'm listening to 'Pirates' at this very moment. I've been trying to decide which is the more awesome song: 'We Belong Together' or 'Living It Up'. Is this album kinda like 'West Side Story' meets Kerouac meets Fellini? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 23:47:16 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Laura Nyro(NJC) I love Laura Nyro's music, but I have trouble understanding what some of the songs are about. For instance what is "Stoned soul picnic" about? I can't figure it out. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 00:02:36 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: readers of the world, unite! NJC In a message dated 11/9/01 10:26:50 PM, TimandMaryPowers@aol.com writes: << many of the highly praised authors he discusses are people I have no interest in or tried and really disliked. >> I have no idea who B. R. Myers is, Mary, but boy did take on a few authors whose over-inflated reputations have always baffled me. Like Annie Proulx, for example. And the paragraph he quotes from Don DeLillo's "White Noise" is the exact paragraph that made me put down that book and never bother to even think of attempting to read another DeLillo novel. But his take on that insufferable gas bag Toni Morrison -- who in my opinion makes an exceptional sleep aid, but is hugely overrated as a writer -- was priceless: "At the 1999 National Book Awards ceremony Oprah Winfrey told of calling Toni Morrison to say that she had had to puzzle over many of the latter's sentences. According to Oprah, Morrison's reply was "That, my dear, is called reading." Sorry, my dear Toni, but it's actually called bad writing. Great prose isn't always easy, but it's always lucid; no one of Oprah's intelligence ever had to wonder what Joseph Conrad was trying to say in a particular sentence." And all this time I thought I was missing something with Proulx, DeLillo, Morrison and some of the others mentioned in this article . . . Thanks, Mary. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 02:11:34 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: readers of the world, unite! NJC oh yes!!!! at last somebody has the courage to trashshshshsh that unbearable third-rate metaphor avalanche, toni morrison. please somebody take care of paul auster next. no one comes close to the classics. no one. i read contemporaries only if it's something like joe keenan, you know, american comedy style novels. the rest of my time i devote to casual sex and edith wharton. wallyK, so much like mark from seattle sometimes. must be my moon in taurus. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #540 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?