From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #536 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, November 7 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 536 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: November 6 [les@jmdl.com] Today in Joni History: November 6 [les@jmdl.com] Confusion in the big city (Nathan La Franeer) [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Emmy Awards - njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Court and Sparks [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Peace Parades - Emmys ["Ron Greer" ] emmys - NJC ["Ron Greer" ] Re: Court and Sparks ["Sybil Skelton" ] Re: Emmy Awards - njc [Reuben3rd@aol.com] Re: Court and Sparks [Nuriel Tobias ] Spark it, sister Keziah! [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Spark it, sister Keziah! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Emmy Awards - njc [Michael Yarbrough ] Nutty Commercials (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: Nutty Commercials (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Nutty Commercials (NJC) ["Sybil Skelton" ] Re: Nutty Commercials (NJC) ["gene mock" ] Re: Nutty Commercials (NJC) [Michael Yarbrough ] Voting (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] testing njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Court and Sparks [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Emmy Awards - njc [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Emmy Awards - njc [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Emmy Awards - njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: The SFBay jmdlers get-together tomorrow nite! (njc?) [BigWaltinSF@aol] Re: Emmy Awards - njc [Michael Yarbrough ] Re: Emmy Awards - njc [Gerald Notaro ] njc ["mack watson-bush" ] barbra, greatest perfomer ever? njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Nutty Commercials (NJC) ["mack watson-bush" ] Madonna and/or barbra njc ["mack watson-bush" ] It's Raining Covers! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: It's Raining Covers! [cvickery@danielrealty.com] happy birthday Joni ["joe farrell" ] Northern Lights NJC [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Emmy Awards - njc ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: barbra, greatest perfomer ever? njc ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: WFUV etc. [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: WFUV etc. [Murphycopy@aol.com] NJC Re: It's Raining Covers! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: WFUV etc. [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] november 7!!!!!!!!!! JONI CONTENT ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: It's Raining Covers! ["hell" ] Re: a gay thing? njc ["hell" ] Re: WFUV etc. ["hell" ] November 7th ["hell" ] birthday present for joni ["shane mattison" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 03:10:28 -0500 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: November 6 On November 6 this article was published: 1998: "Mitchell influences folk, rock" - Penn State Digital Collegian (Biography) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/981106psdc.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 650 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 03:10:28 -0500 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: November 6 On November 6 in Joni Mitchell History: 1965: Tonight Joni performs at The Chess Mate in Detroit - the third of four nights in a row. - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 01:33:19 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Confusion in the big city (Nathan La Franeer) I guess that confusion ("...from confusion to the plane") takes place when you're facing a mixture of good and bad. You can't love it cause part of it is bad, you can't hate it cause part of it is good, so you go dizzy. In that sense, yes, i totaly understand why Joni could be somewhat ambivalent about leaving the City. But (and that's a big but), i think that this good-&-bad mixture is the thing she fears the most, the thing she's escaping from. Instead of looking at it as good and bad living side by side, the city's "hypocricy" is to use the good things as a decoration for the bad things in it. The confusion theme that the song begins with takes over everything and in that sense it's even hard to tell what's good and bad in the list of city sights she's naming. The parks and symphonies become as superficial as the plastic clothes. The place where meter maids and peace parades share the same space is painted by Joni as total mess. And i always felt this song is describing a total urban mess (like the paintings of that German dude, Brecht's friend, oh God what was is name?...George something...?) The "ghostly garden" lines are very strange, to say the least. The city sights in the song are very real and from this world - what's so ghostly about them? Is it like "a ghost town" that's growing there? Could it be that Joni's choice of the word "ghost" is to describe a city that's lifeless where everything in it will grow out to be lifeless too? Or is "ghostly garden", like we sometimes find in ancient Irish tales, a magical place where pale fairies and funny little demons live freely and untouched? I think of the strange back voice in the end of the song that sounds like a car passing - is very ghostly and in some way it's a reminder that Joni's a true dreamer and sometimes the way she captures things and sees them, as real as they may be, is like a dream (or a night mare) and the real things are the unseen ones. The city theme in Joni's debut was so important that she named the A side i came to the city and the B side out of the city and down to the seaside (both taken from the song "Song to a seagull"). One could say that the city as reflected here is a nightmare and the song "Song to a seagull" will probably confirm him right. Others can say that it's more about the thrill and fun and urban lights and "Night in the city" will confirm that. Others will say it's a combination of both. I think of it as a goodbie to an old world (both the real world and Joni's own world) before joining the new one. I see no reason why gangs and girlie shows should be a negative thing for Joni. Though it's not the same thing at all, i feel it's more like the "Tonight i'm going dancing with the drag queens and the punks" thing and the way that Joni's fond of non-middle-stream-people. Nuriel - --- "Mark or Travis" > wrote: >In that list of parks and plastic clothes cars and buses and cripples >seeling balloons and the rush hour of buyers and sellers, making Joni >seem like Lot escaping from his flaming city, mentioning the peace >parades is weird, and the fact that Joni's included them in her "grey" >list is (for my eyes only, Dear Bob) a statement. "Humans are hungry >for worlds they can't share" (Song to a Seagull) is surely not mocking >the unshared worlds. It's grieving them. As i see it the peace parades >are another lost world humans can't share and the way Joni's >mentioning them in Nathan makes it seem like they're also caught in >the city dirty games. > >I think there's something in what Bob said about Joni being somewhat >ambivalent about leaving the City. She talks about the 'ghostly >garden' but when she lists the things it grows with, she mentions >symphonies (culture, beauty, positive) along with the dirty trees >(pollution, negative) and parks (peaceful, positive) along with the >plastic clothes (superficial, negative) and peace parades (positive >action) along with the meter maids (money-grubbers, negative) and >wishing wells (hopeful, positive) along with the burglar bells >(negative, crime, fear, paranoia). So she does still have a few >positive things to say about the City. I think she is saying she is >sad that she will have to give up the parks & the peace parades & the >wishing wells to get away from the other negative stuff. The verse >about gangs and girlie shows doesn't fit this pattern, however. I >can't see that Joni would find anything she would miss about gangs or >girlie shows. > >Mark E. _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 01:39:51 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Court and Sparks I hear that a band named "The Court and Sparks" are about to release an album soon (or have already). Anybody knows who they are and why it's a Joni name they have chosen for themselves? Nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 08:23:44 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Emmy Awards - njc <> Many of you may recall that my Dad is a HUGE Richard Rodgers fan...I grew up with this song and all of his songs played often. My poor Dad can't hold a note in a barrel, although he does love music. No sense of pitch. Anyway, he was in the Greenville Little Theater's production of "Carousel", and he played the starkeeper. So he was onstage at the end when the whole cast comes out and sings 'You'll Never Walk Alone'. Thank God I couldn't hear him above the rest of the chorus, but just to see him on stage singing this song that he loved so dearly was very moving to me. Bob NP: Luther Allison, "Move From The 'Hood" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 08:49:05 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Court and Sparks <> Nuri, I have seen info about this band while surfing the net looking for covers of the song. As far as I can tell from what I've read, there's no connection or reference to Joni altogether. They're based in San Francisco, so maybe some of the west-coasters know of them. They have 2 records out, one last year and one this year. They haven't done any Joni songs. On a similar note, IS "Court & Spark" a Joni-coined idiom? I think it comes from an earlier source, though I don't know what it is off the top of my pointy head. Bob NP: Luther Allison, "You Don't Know" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:55:47 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: Peace Parades - Emmys hi >>Nuriel Wrote >>I was thinking about a line in "Nathan La Franeer" saying "And the sky goes on forever without meter maids and peace >>parades". What do you think is Joni's point of view when saying that there are no peace parades in the sky? Is Joni >>mocking the peace parades on earth? Or maybe the sky for not knowing what it's like to fight for peace? or is she perhaps saying the sky is really cool because they dont *have* to have peace parades??? (or meter maids either???) Ron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:03:58 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: emmys - NJC hi >>Hell wrote .....................Her comment, "what would annoy the Taliban more than a gay woman in a suit, in front of a crowd of Jews" was brilliant. i missed the emmys, but that comment made the news, and had me snorting up my mouthful of food with laughter!!! what a mess - fortunately no-one was there to see it :-) i was also upset that i missed phil driscoll........... how was his performance?? any other phil driscoll fans out there?? ron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 08:16:57 -0600 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Re: Court and Sparks >On a similar note, IS "Court & Spark" a Joni-coined idiom? I think it comes >from an earlier source, though I don't know what it is off the top of my >pointy head.> Isn't "court and spark" an old colloquial expression that essentially means dating? Perhaps I'm revealing my age here. Sybil _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 09:30:36 EST From: Reuben3rd@aol.com Subject: Re: Emmy Awards - njc I have always been curious as to whether or not, as a gay guy, I'd develop a Barbra thing. I have not, but I could certainly consider it after her emmy performance. That voice is amazing...totally perfectly clear. Amazing. I only caught the last hour of the emmys, but thought it was pretty good...EDg was great as the host. Too bad she doesn't do the Oscars...Around January 15th every year I have to start preparing myself for 2 plus hours of the intolerable Billy Crystal. Reuben np: Suzanne Vega - Songs In Red and Gray (By far her best since Days of Open Hand) >>Did anyone else catch the Emmys last night? I don't care what anyone says about Barbra Streisand, her performance of the Rogers & Hammerstein chestnut 'You'll Never Walk Alone' was one of the most moving that I have yet seen in tribute to the victims & heroes of 9/11. And Ellen DeGeneres was wonderful! One of the best jobs of hosting an awards show that I have yet seen. The audience gave her a standing ovation at the end of the show! Mark E.<< ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 06:43:30 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Court and Sparks I gave a total search on nearly every dictionary available on the net including those that search expressions from books, papers etc - and there seems to be no term as Court & Spark beside Joni's. But Sybil's got as close as i have to the answer: one dictionary that deals with American expressions from the 19 century says that the expression "to Court and Spark it" was "invented" in New England and was used for dating. Sybil...19 century? Your younger than my mother! Love, Nuriel - --- "Sybil Skelton" > wrote: >>On a similar note, IS "Court & Spark" a Joni-coined idiom? I think it comes >>from an earlier source, though I don't know what it is off the top of my >>pointy head.> > >Isn't "court and spark" an old colloquial expression that essentially means >dating? Perhaps I'm revealing my age here. > >Sybil > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 07:01:00 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Spark it, sister Keziah! Here's what seems to be the answer, taken from "The Americanism dictionary" : "TO SPARK IT. To court. To court and spark it. Fromed and used chiefly in New England. You were a nation sight wiser than brother Jonathan, sister Keziah, poor little Aminadab, and all the rest; and above all, my owny, towny Lydia, the Deacon's darlin darter; with whom I've sparked it, pretty often-times, so late.--D. Humphrey, The Yankee in England. SPARKING. 'To go a sparking,' is to go a courting; a common expression in the Northern States. Mr. Justice Crow was soon overtaken; Lieut. Col. Simcoe accosted him roughly, called him "Tory," nor seemed to believe his excuses; when, in the American idiom for courtship, he said, "he had only been sparking."--Simcoe, Military Journal, p. 73. He rolled his eyes horribly, and said that that was the way the young men cast sheep's eyes when they went a sparking.--Mrs. Clavers's Western Clearings, p. 16." _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 10:25:19 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Spark it, sister Keziah! Nice piece of research, Nuri! I thought that was a "borrowed" term...Les, should Nuriel's reference be included as a glossary term? And getting back to your great posts about Nathan La Franeer, in performance she said that it was a companion piece to Marcie, which is also a song about someone leaving the city and the dualities between the "reds" & the "greens". Fascinating songs, both of them. Do you think there's also a method to her song sequencing on STAS? Most of you here are more comfortable with this record than I am; I didn't pick it up until I joined this group in 1998. Bob NP: Allman Brothers, "Les Brer in A Minor" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 07:32:32 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: Re: Emmy Awards - njc Well, I'll be the contrarian and say that I thought Babs' performance was awful. Perhaps it's just my cheapie TV, but her pitch sounded flat and her tone wobbly and nasal to me. Of course, I've never been a huge fan of hers anyway, and my youth dropped me into her career after she had already eschewed humor and nuance for schmaltz. Nonetheless, that's my take. I'll go duck now. Ellen? Marvelous. And I was prepared to find her banal and unfunny. She was absolutely delightful. And a quick YAY for _Sex and the City_!! - --Michael NP: Elliott Smith, _XO_ ===== ____________________________________________________________ "Greetings cards routinely tell us everybody deserves love. No. Everybody deserves clean water. Not everybody deserves love all the time." - --Zadie Smith, _White Teeth_ Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 08:15:27 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Nutty Commercials (NJC) Speaking of nutty, sometime during the world series I saw a commercial, all flag-waving patriotism (can't remember for what - it can't have been very effective) that used PART of the Creedence song "Fortunate Son"..."some folks born, made to wave the flag, oooh, they're red white and blue, yeah" but they DIDN't use the next line "but when the band plays 'Hail to the Chief', oooh, they point the cannon at you". Not wishing to ignite any political debate :) and there's nothing wrong with flag-waving patriotism, but using a song written from a very anti-war perspective in a very different era in such an edited way really seemed wrong to me. - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 11:24:34 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Nutty Commercials (NJC) <> Sorta like Reagan wanting to use Springsteen's "Born in the USA" as a campaign anthem. Probably not the best choice he could have made... Also reminds me of when I was playing Supertramp's "Goodbye Stranger", and my Mom freaked when she heard them sing "say the devil is my saviour"...I had to remind her that the next immediate phrase is "and I won't pay no heed". Bob NP: Allman Brothers, "Stand Back" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 10:34:26 -0600 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Re: Nutty Commercials (NJC) Steve, I saw the same commercial - also can't remember what it was for, wasted advertising dollars. I just started howling at the television when it came on - "but that's an anti-war song !". Don't these ad people actually listen to the songs before they just stick a familliar tune on a product? Reminds me of Reagan trying to co-opt Bruce's "Born in the USA" when he obviously had no clue what the song was about. Oh well, style over substance I guess. And I agree with you that it's just wrong, wrong, dirty and wrong. Sybil (who also thought Babs sounded a bit "off" during the Emmys, still great but something was just missing in those once magnificent pipes.) >Speaking of nutty, sometime during the world series I saw a >commercial, all flag-waving patriotism (can't remember for >what - it can't have been very effective) that used PART >of the Creedence song "Fortunate Son"..."some folks born, >made to wave the flag, oooh, they're red white and blue, yeah" >but they DIDN't use the next line "but when the band plays >'Hail to the Chief', oooh, they point the cannon at you". _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 08:38:39 -0800 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: Nutty Commercials (NJC) hi steve, i agree but that's what the media does------takes out of context and twist the original intention of the author. what's sad is we as a people are accepting and believing these "sound bites" as fact. flag waving is great but who is really going to pay the real price (lives/monetary cost) for freedom? joni said it best. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- "Land of snap decisions / Land of short attention spans / Nothing is savored / Long enough to really understand / In every culture in decline / The watchful ones among the slaves / Know all that's genuine will be / Scorned and conned and cast away / Dog eat dog..." Dog Eat Dog- JONI MITCHELL 1985 Crazy Crow Music BMI - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- take care gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Dulson" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 8:15 AM Subject: Nutty Commercials (NJC) > Speaking of nutty, sometime during the world series I saw a > commercial, all flag-waving patriotism (can't remember for > what - it can't have been very effective) that used PART > of the Creedence song "Fortunate Son"..."some folks born, > made to wave the flag, oooh, they're red white and blue, yeah" > but they DIDN't use the next line "but when the band plays > 'Hail to the Chief', oooh, they point the cannon at you". > > Not wishing to ignite any political debate :) and there's > nothing wrong with flag-waving patriotism, but using a > song written from a very anti-war perspective in a very > different era in such an edited way really seemed wrong to me. > -- > ######################################################## > Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com > "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com > "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 09:43:47 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: Re: Nutty Commercials (NJC) Sybil wrote: > Don't > these ad people > actually listen to the songs before they just stick > a familliar tune on a > product? Reminds me of Reagan trying to co-opt > Bruce's "Born in the USA" > when he obviously had no clue what the song was > about. Well, the job of ad people is to reach and move people, and since many many Americans have used "Born in the USA" both in the distant and recent past as a patriotic song, my guess is these decontextualizations, no matter how "evil" or "wrong," are indeed reaching those people. Also remember that many people have to be paid to use a recording in an ad, and if the decontextualized artists in question retained any songwriting rights, they agreed to their song's use. - --Michael NP: Artful Dodger, _It's All About the Stragglers_ ===== ____________________________________________________________ "Greetings cards routinely tell us everybody deserves love. No. Everybody deserves clean water. Not everybody deserves love all the time." - --Zadie Smith, _White Teeth_ Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 12:47:49 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Voting (NJC) <> On a similar note, today is election day and we had elections for City Council. I went in to vote and was the only person in the building besides the volunteers! Guess it's easier to hang a flag on your car window than it is to go to "all the trouble" of registering and voting. They're calling for about a 20% turnout. Bob NP: Allmans, "Wasted Words" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:16:47 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: testing njc haven't seen my posts show up on the digest...did this one? ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 13:16:38 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Court and Sparks SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > < th an album ey have chosen for themselves?>>On a similar note, IS "Court & Spark" a Joni-coined idiom? I think it comes from an earlier source, though I don't know what it is off the top of my pointy head. Bob is correct. Court and Spark is an old familiar term for dating. I imagine its root comes from: court: conduct or attention intended to win favor; and spark: a latent particle capable of growth or developing. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 13:22:09 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Emmy Awards - njc Michael Yarbrough wrote: > Well, I'll be the contrarian and say that I thought > Babs' performance was awful. Perhaps it's just my > cheapie TV, but her pitch sounded flat and her tone > wobbly and nasal to me. But you think Madonna is a great talent? Come on, Michael. Not even a contest when it comes to singing. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 13:43:12 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Emmy Awards - njc SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > <> > > Many of you may recall that my Dad is a HUGE Richard Rodgers fan...I grew up with this song and all of his songs played often. > > My poor Dad can't hold a note in a barrel, although he does love music. No sense of pitch. Anyway, he was in the Greenville Little Theater's production of "Carousel", and he played the starkeeper. So he was onstage at the end when the whole cast comes out and sings 'You'll Never Walk Alone'. Thank God I couldn't hear him above the rest of the chorus, but just to see him on stage singing this song that he loved so dearly was very moving to me. Well hush my mouth. TWO generations of straight musical-lovin' Muller men! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 13:49:20 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Emmy Awards - njc <> And it may end there...my son makes a face whenever I try and get him interested in going to see a musical. But I WILL drag him to see "Fiddler" this spring when the professional troupe comes to town. It's my duty as a parent! ;~) Bob NP: America, "Here" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 13:54:53 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: The SFBay jmdlers get-together tomorrow nite! (njc?) Sorry Julius and all -- I had what we call in my family a "brain fart" and forgot what day it was when I posted my previous message. The SFBay jmdler get-together is, of course, Wednesday night, not tonite. Hope I didn't cause any uindue confusion! warmly (but dizzily), walt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:17:39 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: Re: Emmy Awards - njc I do think Madonna is a great talent. I do not think she is a great technical singing talent. I think she would have been a poor choice for the kind of emotional sentiment called for by such a performance as this. A large part of Babs' claim to fame, on the other hand, and undoubtedly part of why she was cast here, is her technical singing skill. In my opinion it was lacking in this performance. Any other oranges and apples you'd like to throw? - --Michael NP: Mary J. Blige, _No More Drama_ (a better singer than both those girls in my book, even if she can't find a pitch with a flashlight) - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > Michael Yarbrough wrote: > > > Well, I'll be the contrarian and say that I > thought > > Babs' performance was awful. Perhaps it's just my > > cheapie TV, but her pitch sounded flat and her > tone > > wobbly and nasal to me. > > But you think Madonna is a great talent? Come on, > Michael. Not even a > contest when it comes to singing. ===== ____________________________________________________________ "Greetings cards routinely tell us everybody deserves love. No. Everybody deserves clean water. Not everybody deserves love all the time." - --Zadie Smith, _White Teeth_ Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 16:09:52 -0500 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: Emmy Awards - njc Michael Yarbrough wrote: > I do think Madonna is a great talent. I do not think > she is a great technical singing talent. I Ah. It is her acting ability you admire.................. Jerry ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:22:07 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: njc Boy howdy. (I have definitely lived here too long) I love it when I come home and the JMDL is full of messages. You folks (damn, I have lived here too long) are great. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:26:51 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: barbra, greatest perfomer ever? njc Like I said I really like Barbra's music and have found her movies pretty darn good too. Major fan of the way we were. Guess it has a lot to do with when I was in high school and that flick was such a big thing. She can be a darn good actress and also very funny. Don't think her performances get the credit that they deserve. When she was in bed with Hubble; I have been there. Guess we all have except you people who were not the Katie's of the world. I was a Katie and proudly say so now but back then it wasn't so great. As far as being the greatest entertainer ever, which is why I write this post, I would have to give that nod to Judy Garland. Barbra is good but Judy was better, in my opinion. Apples and oranges I guess. Mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 7:49 AM Subject: Re: Court and Sparks > < th an album ey have chosen for themselves?>> > > Nuri, > > I have seen info about this band while surfing the net looking for covers of the song. As far as I can tell from what I've read, there's no connection or reference to Joni altogether. They're based in San Francisco, so maybe some of the west-coasters know of them. > > They have 2 records out, one last year and one this year. They haven't done any Joni songs. > > On a similar note, IS "Court & Spark" a Joni-coined idiom? I think it comes from an earlier source, though I don't know what it is off the top of my pointy head. > > Bob > > NP: Luther Allison, "You Don't Know" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:34:21 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: a gay thing? njc Rueben wrote: > I have always been curious as to whether or not, as a gay guy, I'd develop a Barbra thing. Always kind of irks me when I hear people saying things like that. Queer folks love Barbra and Judy and show tunes. No doubt that many homosexuals like them but not all. My gay friends don't like any of them. In contrast, back in high school we would pile into the speech van, or vans depending on the event, and listen to different music. Everyone loved Barbra and show tunes and since I have kept up with those folks I can tell you that I was the only fag in the bunch. Drats! Mack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:37:21 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Nutty Commercials (NJC) Boy Steve, do I agree with that. I was pretty disheartened when I saw that commercial and pretty disappointed that they sold it for that use. Must have needed the money pretty badly. Seemed like a major copout. Then again, walk the mile in the other guys shoes, I guess. Mack > of the Creedence song "Fortunate Son"..."some folks born, > made to wave the flag, oooh, they're red white and blue, yeah" > but they DIDN't use the next line "but when the band plays > 'Hail to the Chief', oooh, they point the cannon at you". > > Not wishing to ignite any political debate :) and there's > nothing wrong with flag-waving patriotism, but using a > song written from a very anti-war perspective in a very > different era in such an edited way really seemed wrong to me. > -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:45:31 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Nutty Commercials (NJC) Michael Y. wrote: > Also remember that many people have to be >paid to use a recording in an ad, and if the >decontextualized artists in question retained >any songwriting rights, they agreed to their >song's use. Good point. Also, does anyone know the ultimate outsome of John Fogerty's long battle with Fantasy Records and Saul Zaentz? Fantasy owned the rights to most of the CCR albums and may still (although I recall Fogerty won something in one of the lawsuits). The last I knew Fogerty did not have control over how his songs were used. Fogerty, from what I've read was a vet. I think Fortunate Son is not exactly an anti-war song but rather a protest against how the sons of the wealthy or powerful rarely served in Vietnam and had ways of getting out of the draft and service. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:41:54 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Madonna and/or barbra njc well, barbra is most certainly much more accomplished and naturally talented than Madonna, in my opinion. I don't see that they are even in the same league. On the other hand, let's give the material girl her due. She has put out some great music of her own and is quite the genius in marketing. It is apples and oranges but I have had some great times listening to Madonna also. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 17:05:37 -0500 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Peace Parades - Emmys That was exactly my take on that line too, Ron! The sky goes on forever...without (the need for) meter maids and peace parades.... Gary Ron Greer wrote: > > hi > > >>Nuriel Wrote > >>I was thinking about a line in "Nathan La Franeer" saying "And the sky goes on forever without meter maids and peace > >>parades". What do you think is Joni's point of view when saying that there are no peace parades in the sky? Is Joni > >>mocking the peace parades on earth? Or maybe the sky for not knowing what it's like to fight for peace? > > or is she perhaps saying the sky is really cool because they dont *have* to have peace parades??? (or meter maids either???) > > Ron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 17:22:49 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: It's Raining Covers! Hey Y'all, I did some more snooping around today and found another handful of Joni covers, so we've surpassed the 800 mark by a couple. Haven't snagged 'em all, but we're getting there! Better start chopping more wood, Hell! :~) Latest cover received: Both Sides Now by Davy Graham (you don't wanna know how much I had to cough up for this one) Latest cover obtained: River by Peter White, a deal on E-Bay at $4.65! Latest cover discovered: River by Enzo Pietropaoli (jazz bassist) on his 1999 CD "Stolen Songs" Now working on: Volume 27 (!) (Way past the point of good sense!) :~) Bob NP: Tori, "Bells For Her" (live) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:31:18 -0600 From: cvickery@danielrealty.com Subject: Re: It's Raining Covers! <> Oh, but Bob! Too much of a good thing can be wonderful! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 22:56:14 -0000 From: "joe farrell" Subject: happy birthday Joni Just want to wish Joni a really Happy Birthday. Hope she has a wonderful day. Love, Joe Farrell. NP: HOSL (Don't Interrupt The Sorrow) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 17:56:39 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Northern Lights NJC Intense Aurora Borealis Appears Across U.S. By AUDRA ANG .c The Associated Press (Nov. 6) - The Northern Lights appeared with rare intensity in skies across the United States, treating onlookers as far south as Georgia and Alabama to a shimmering display of blue, red and green. Did anyone see this Monday night? Just wondering...... Rose in NJ rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 18:02:59 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Emmy Awards - njc > Well, I'll be the contrarian and say that I thought > Babs' performance was awful. Perhaps it's just my > cheapie TV, but her pitch sounded flat and her tone > wobbly and nasal to me. I will say that I don't think television sound has ever done much for this woman's voice. With the possible exception of 'The Concert' when she took great pains to insure good sound (in her venues, anyway.) But personally I found her delivery very moving in spite of a certain flatness in the sound (not in her pitch.) Of course, I've never been a > huge fan of hers anyway, and my youth dropped me into > her career after she had already eschewed humor and > nuance for schmaltz. That's too bad. I will agree that her recent recordings have tended to lean toward schmaltz. 'The Broadway Album' was the last great record she put out, imo. And one of the highlights was the comic 'Adelaide's Lament' from 'Guys & Dolls. > > Ellen? Marvelous. And I was prepared to find her > banal and unfunny. She was absolutely delightful. I didn't know what to expect from Ellen either and was very pleasantly surprised. She managed to set the right tone and be very funny at the same time. Not an easy task considering the circumstances this year. Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 18:13:23 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: barbra, greatest perfomer ever? njc As far as being the greatest entertainer ever, which is why I write > this post, I would have to give that nod to Judy Garland. Barbra is good > but Judy was better, in my opinion. Apples and oranges I guess. I certainly would not disagree with you here, Walt. Garland was bursting with talent. She could move an audience in a way that very few can. Great actress, phenomenal singer, she could also practically memorize a dance routine after watching it just once. True genius. And she never had a chance to be anything like happy or normal. Very tragic. Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 18:18:30 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: a gay thing? njc Although I didn't take any offense at what Reuben wrote, I do have to say that Mack has a point here. I've said this before but what the hell I'll say it again. The talent of these two women has a much broader & more universal appeal than just to the gay men of the world. And for the record (I've said this before too) I resisted Judy Garland's talent for a long time simply because I didn't want to branded with a stereotype. I gave up worrying about that one a long time ago. I missed out on way too much and stopped caring about whether I was perceived as stereotypical or not. Mark E. > > > > I have always been curious as to whether or not, as a gay guy, I'd develop > a Barbra thing. > > > Always kind of irks me when I hear people saying things like that. Queer > folks love Barbra and Judy and show tunes. No doubt that many homosexuals > like them but not all. My gay friends don't like any of them. In contrast, > back in high school we would pile into the speech van, or vans depending on > the event, and listen to different music. Everyone loved Barbra and show > tunes and since I have kept up with those folks I can tell you that I was > the only fag in the bunch. Drats! > > Mack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 22:36:37 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: WFUV etc. All right Sue ! I will be listening between 7 and 8 (and more, if necessary). I had alerted the list to WFUV's Joni day just before you did, as a result of my recent listening (I had not been aware of the station until a couple of months ago). Well, Sunday I was on my way to work (ugh) when the guy on WFUV decides to play four covers in a row from Blue: Blue Sarah McLachlan A Case of You Phoebe Snow River Holly Cole All I Want Keith Jarrett (apropos of his recent concert review by Stephen Epstein) And the guy (forgot his name) tries to describe how great a songwriter JM is and gives up - saying "well, it's just so obvious". So, I figure I'd better subscribe to the station as a matter of conscience (not to mention tithing for the propagation of the faith), which I did. I believe they do this all day thing on her birthday every year (only a few artists are so honored - I was told by a friend that Hank Williams is another). Can learn more at www.wfuv.org. Speaking of which, Bob M, have you considered (or done) any covers CD's that replicate a JM album (using the best of the covers) ? I realize that may not be possible for all of the albums, but it must be possible for at least some of them. Finally, another friend who was at the Central Park Joni Jazz concert wondered if there was a tape of that - I recall your posting that there was - could you update me on that ? Bob S ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 23:20:39 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: WFUV etc. In a message dated 11/6/01 10:38:07 PM, Bobsart48@aol.com writes: << Speaking of which, Bob M, have you considered (or done) any covers CD's that replicate a JM album (using the best of the covers) ? >> Why, no, I haven't. But I bet the *nice* Bob M has. But seriously, folks, I think this is a great idea. It could even make a nice, quick stocking-stuffer for you-know-who that will give her a taste of what's coming when the box set is finally done. I bet Muller could put together a damn fine CD of the best covers of songs from one album. And who wouldn't love something extra to do this holiday season? (By the way, has any one album been completely covered, Bob?) --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 23:28:23 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: It's Raining Covers! << Too much of a good thing can be wonderful! >> Shit, I know it...I just hate that I'm so fecking old that the above statement relates to Joni covers! LOL! Bob NP: David Bowie, "Jean Genie" (live) Thanks Byron! ;~) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 23:56:22 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: WFUV etc. << Speaking of which, Bob M, have you considered (or done) any covers CD's that replicate a JM album (using the best of the covers) ? I realize that may not be possible for all of the albums, but it must be possible for at least some of them.>> Extremely interesting question, Bob...only two can be replicated in their entirety: Blue & Hejira (Thanks to Lorraine Gervais & her cover of Blue Motel Room) STAS lacks 3 songs Clouds lacks 1 (The Gallery) LOTC lacks 2 (Blue Boy, The Arrangement) FTR lacks 5 (a real crime!!) C&S lacks 3 HOSL lacks 3 (although Bjork has done Boho Dance, it's just not out yet) DJRD lacks most of 'em Mingus only lacks 1! (The Wolf...) And then up from there the air gets pretty thin! Finally, another friend who was at the Central Park Joni Jazz concert wondered if there was a tape of that - I recall your posting that there was - - could you update me on that ? >> Yes, the concert was recorded by Simon and shared with the list. It's on 2 cassette tapes or 3 CD's. The sound is really nice, too bad that so many of the performances are lacking. BUT the more I listen to this, the more I like it, and when Joni comes on stage to sing "Help Me" with Chaka it is pure bliss, even though they fumble around for the words. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Shore Leave" (live) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 02:11:18 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: november 7!!!!!!!!!! JONI CONTENT OH MY GOD!!!!! IT'S JONI MITCHELL'S BIRTHDAY!!!!!!! this merits the long awaited always prayed for almost despaired of RETURN OF THE BIRRRTHDAY FAIRY! dearest joni, if it weren't for you i would never have been a birrrthday fairy. after this moment, pregnant with emotion and fairy tears we go back to our regular broadcast. signed: the gorgeously revamped, patched and overhauled BIRRRTHDAY FAIRY ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 18:19:04 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Court and Sparks Nuriel wrote: > I hear that a band named "The Court and Sparks" are about > to release an album soon (or have already). Anybody knows > who they are and why it's a Joni name they have chosen for > themselves? This intrigued me, so I did some digging and found the following article (the relevant bit copied below): http://www.muse.ie/180800/reviews/revu_wheels.html "Named after a Joni Mitchell album, this San Francisco four-piece are the latest in a long line of alt country outlaws to emerge on the German label." It would be interesting to contact them, and find out more about their choice of a Joni-inspired name. When I find the time, I'll get around to it - unless anyone else wants to (hint, hint)?!? Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 18:23:43 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: It's Raining Covers! Bob wrote: > I did some more snooping around today and found another > handful of Joni covers, so we've surpassed the 800 mark by > a couple. Haven't snagged 'em all, but we're getting there! > Better start chopping more wood, Hell! :~) Now, look! I'm making these damn things to hold 40 CDs, and that's it! If a third box is required somewhere down the line, that's fine, but this will have to do for now! Hell - wondering what the hell (pun definitely intended) she's let herself in for! ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 18:26:50 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: a gay thing? njc Mark wrote: > Although I didn't take any offense at what Reuben wrote, I do have to > say that Mack has a point here. I've said this before but what the > hell I'll say it again. The talent of these two women has a much > broader & more universal appeal than just to the gay men of the world. > And for the record (I've said this before too) I resisted Judy > Garland's talent for a long time simply because I didn't want to > branded with a stereotype. I gave up worrying about that one a long > time ago. I missed out on way too much and stopped caring about > whether I was perceived as stereotypical or not. I can relate to this. I resisted listening to Melissa Etheridge and the Indigo Girls for a long time, simply for the same reasons - I didn't want to be stereotyped, I still don't. But that doesn't change how good they are - now I'm just annoyed that I waited so long! But then I still knit and sew, and do cross-stitch, and that's definitely not stereotypical. Although I do know quite a lot about car engines, carpentry and household maintenance. Damn! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 18:28:29 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: WFUV etc. Bob wrote: > Extremely interesting question, Bob...only two can be replicated in their > entirety: Blue & Hejira (Thanks to Lorraine Gervais & her cover of Blue Motel > Room) This doesn't surprise me, given the popularity of these two albums - quite often mentioned as people's favourites. They would make a nice little "taster" for Joni for Xmas, wouldn't they?!? Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 19:42:42 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: November 7th Happy birthday, Joni. Thanks for everything. Boy, does THAT seem inadequate! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 00:47:46 -0700 From: "shane mattison" Subject: birthday present for joni oh happy birthday, joni joni... my present for you is a new photo gallery...and some of these images of you haven't been seen on the web before... so here you are...shane's joni more to come with a little time: http://www.angelfire.com/art/cactussong/cactusjoniphotos.html with love from shane with a new address: cactussong@shaw.ca ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #536 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?