From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #528 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, October 31 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 528 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- halloween cooptation NJC [Yael Harlap ] letterman NJC ["Stephen Epstein" ] Children's Books ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: The Snowman njc - Christmas animation [TimandMaryPowers@aol.com] RE: Maugham - NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Victor in a coffeehouse, Friday, (sjc) ["jlamadoo, home account" ] Re: children's & other books NJC ["hell" ] Maughm knows best - NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: Maughm knows best - NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Maughm knows best - NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Children's books (NJC) ["hell" ] Re: Confessions of a Bookaholic (NJC) ["hell" ] Re: Maughm knows best - NJC ["hell" ] Re: halloween question, extremely NJC [Scott and Jody ] RE: "All I Want" ["Mary E. Pitassi" ] _Valley_ memories (NJC) ["Mary E. Pitassi" ] Re: children's & other books NJC [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: _Valley_ memories (NJC) ["Stephen Epstein" ] Re: _Valley_ memories (NJC) ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 20:49:56 -0500 From: Yael Harlap Subject: halloween cooptation NJC Les described: >As one who is actually in the Halloween industry, I find this >interesting. Believe it or not: There is a movement gathering steam among >Halloween costume suppliers to have the holiday officially moved from the >31st to the last Saturday of October every year. They've actually hired a >lobbyist to promote this idea. The idea has one purpose only - to sell >more costumes. When Halloween falls on a Sunday through Thursday, there >are not as many parties and therefore a smaller demand for products. > >Nothing is sacred in the retail industry! THIS is a prime example of what's wrong with capitalism. Retch, retch, puke. thoroughly disgusted, Yael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 21:31:52 -0500 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: letterman NJC Hi all, I believe Laurie Anderson is a guest tonight on Letterman. Grace Slick turned 62 today!! Best Stephen in Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:54:58 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Children's Books How could I forget the very funny & quirky books by William Steig. My mom is the one who discovered these & gave them to my son when he was a little boy. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 22:08:23 EST From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Re: The Snowman njc - Christmas animation anyone remember "the year without a santa claus"? Heatmeiser and Snowmeiser and mother nature? I love that show! well, really I love the song about heatmeiser and snowmeiser and how their little assistants dance. Heatmeiser has to have a hot christmas and snowmeiser needs it cold. they fight a lot. santa needs a favor - snow in the south - but he can't get them to cooperate and mother nature (their mother) has to settle things. I'm mr. heatmeiser, I'm mr. sun. I'm mr. green christmas, I'm mr. hundred-and-one they call me heatmeiser, whatever I touch starts to melt in my clutch I'm too much not Joni, but it's cute. with the little assistants dancing. Mary ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 00:49:56 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Maugham - NJC that scene in the razor's edge is my favorite too!!!!!!! how many times i have looked at bob murphy that way! ted morgan's biography has been unavailable for ages, and so has robert calder's ''willie''. if anybody wants to make a blue boy happy, now you know what i want for christmas. wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de MGVal@aol.com Enviado el: Martes, 30 de Octubre de 2001 09:04 a.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Maugham - NJC Wallyk wrote: i have been re-reading the works of w. somerset maugham. Good choice Wally! I love Maugham and recently re-re-re-re-re-read "The Razor's Choice," one of my all time favorite books. He captures a lot in a slim volume and there is one simple scene where he watches Isabelle look at Larry's wrist that manages to convey deep desire with a few simple paragraphs and nary a heaving bosom in sight. A wonderful writer and now I know what I am going to read over my long weekend: Of Human Bondage. As well, the biography by Ted Someone or other called "Maugham, A Life," is also pretty good. Another mark on my "to re-read" list. MG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:09:58 -0500 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: Victor in a coffeehouse, Friday, (sjc) You go, Victor! My opinion, not that anyone asked, is that I hope you can do Music on a full time basis. Karen O'Brien says that some people tried to dissuade our Joni from music, even after her songs were all on the radio as covers! Dylan's manager, Albert Grossman thought she was 'too domestic' as judged by her beautifully decorated home. (?) Can you imagine a man's seriousness about a career being judged by his house?? ["Hey, Dylan, man, I dig the music, but since you put up curtians, you must not be a *real* musician." (?)] Lamadoo I'll be doing my first solo performance in Athens this Friday. It will be at The Bean'ry, a local coffeeshop, a very cool place with lots of couches, christmas lights, candles, and a mural on the wall. If any of y'all from Atlanta or anywhere else want to drive up, I'd be glad to see you. Details are below. Victor Johnson at The Bean'ry 510 Thomas Street Athens, Georgia 30601 (706)425-9911 Starts about 9:30 with opening act no cover ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:18:32 -0500 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: Fame? NJC I haven't un_s_u_b_bed but I've been deleting whole digests for awhile now. During that time, I've been ruminating about some topics. Like "fame". It's funny how I have an attitude towards people who are "supposed" to be good. I'm talking here about the phenomenon of hearing the "buzz" about someone's music before I've heard the music. Like, for me, a good example is Bob Dylan. Dylan was "supposed" to be good (according to my best source of intellegence at the time, Rolling Stone.) Now, for me, Bobby lives up to his rep but others, who will remain nameless, have not. Like there are some very highly praised folkies in particular whom I just don't "get". Significantly, it seems to me to be a deficiency in me. That is, since people who's opinion I value, like "x", I have adopted an attitude that not everyone agrees on everyone. Remarkably, even on the JMDL, not everyone appreciates, say, Bruce Springsteen as highly as I do. I struggle with this: If you get "Amelia", how can you NOT get "Thunder Road"? Failed opportunities (Joni), last chances (Bruce), the road (Both). When I see so many, many similarities, how can someone else like one and abhor the other? And why is it that some bands like the Cowboy Junkies garner a familiar kinship similar to pride? Why do I use the word "proud" to describe how I feel about the Junkies' "lay it down". (?) Certianly they didn't go to my high school or live on my block. So in what manner do I feel 'pride' for people I've only met fleetingly and superficially? These relative values shift even further. If I hear a voice on the radio, and pay attention, trying to catch a name when the announcer comes on, I trust my instincts on that, whether or not everyone else thinks that, say, "Night Moves" is a trite. Complicating things further, there's the perspective of corresponding with or hearing a JMDLer, then purchasing a disc. Now that's a wierd one. Cause when at work, I say, "I'm listening to my friend's disc", people think I'm a name droppper. It's so wierd. It's completely different listening to a JMDLer's work than learning about it from the radio. I'm automatically PROUD of them. The most extreme example of this was when I found out that my friend Niki, the dj, had toured with her own band, supporting a disc of her own originals. Suddenly, my friend became one of the hallowed and illustrious "Songwriters" (caps intentional). On the obverse, I went round back during the loadout and chatted with Michael Timmins after a Junkies' show. That was wierd. He's just a bloke who's made some money at music. So why did I feel out of place talking music with a musician? What is it about Success that puts a barrier between listeners and players? What is it about Airplay that distinguishes Famous from Local Talent? I suppose that the Junkies can walk in and out of 24 hour gas stations all across North America without being recognized. Isn't that inconguous? So what does it mean to be a "Star"? What does it mean to be a former member of a serious band like the Police? A former member of a silly band like Three Dog Night? Are they forever Public Persons or do they cross over into just being a face in the crowd? What's it like to be Furry, singing the blues? Lama ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:29:15 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: children's & other books NJC Kakki wrote: > I was also so addicted to books growing up that I would actually ditch class > every afternoon in 6th grade to go to the library and read. Looking back > I've never understood why my teacher let me get away with it - she still > gave me good grades and never called me on it!. We had to read at least 10 > books that year and compile our list of them at the end of the term. My > list was something like 120 books read! I suspect she was one of those rare people in the field of education, who understands that learning is about more just listening to a teacher, and that you were gaining valuable knowledge by doing this. Further thought may have suggested that discouraging you might forever turn you against reading - she was obviously a very good teacher! Different if you had been skiving off at the local video game parlour - not something I ever did, obviously ;o)! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:25:24 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Maughm knows best - NJC In a message dated 10/30/01 10:52:36 PM, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << how many times i have looked at bob murphy that way! <> if anybody wants to make a blue boy happy, now you know what i want for christmas. >> That's it! I've HAD it, Wally! Enough of your public posts. If you don't start e-mailing me privately, buster, there will be hell to pay. XO, --Bob NPIMH: Miss Otis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 01:30:23 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Maughm knows best - NJC why drag hell into this? leave her alone, you heartbreaker you. - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Murphycopy@aol.com Enviado el: Miircoles, 31 de Octubre de 2001 01:25 a.m. Para: wallykai@fibertel.com.ar; MGVal@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Asunt That's it! I've HAD it, Wally! Enough of your public posts. If you don't start e-mailing me privately, buster, there will be hell to pay. XO, --Bob NPIMH: Miss Otis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:33:30 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Maughm knows best - NJC In a message dated 10/30/01 11:31:30 PM, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << why drag hell into this? leave her alone, you heartbreaker you. >> You idiot! She's the one with all the frequent flyer miles. Ha-ha! XO, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:41:10 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Children's books (NJC) Steve wrote (about Biggles): > Some of the earlier books contain some ethnic, racial and national > stereotyping very common in the world of their day, causing some to > be banned from libraries, etc. in recent years. On stereotyping, Nevil Shute is another author whose works are quite dated. A lot of stereotypes, particularly of women's place in society. One of his books also had as a main character a man is is one-eighth Australian Aborigine, an octaroon, who says he "will probably never marry, because women don't like the colour thing." The same goes for a lot of Enid Blyton - The Famous Five in particular. Anyone read No. 9 (Five Fall Into Adventure) or No. 14 (Five Have Plenty Of Fun)? They meet a gypsy girl, Jo, but don't like her because she "smells funny" and is dirty. She became much nicer once she'd been given a bath! And far more socially acceptable (though not on their "level") once she'd been "adopted" by their cook's sister. Speaking of Famous Five, if you get a chance, watch the Comic Strip parodies of the Famous Five, "Five Go Mad In Dorset" and "Five Go Mad On Mescalin" in which Aunt Fanny is a "screaming nymphomaniac" and Uncle Quentin is an "incurable homosexual". Comic Strip includes Rik Mayall, Adrian Edmonson, Jennifer Saunders (actually married to Edmonson) and Dawn French. Hilarious stuff. > Trivia - I just watched the great NZ movie Heavenly Creatures again, > which features Kate Winslett and her friend reading Biggles books > and "flying" through the garden. One of my favourite films gets yet another mention - and there's that Peter Jackson again! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:44:13 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Confessions of a Bookaholic (NJC) Mary wrote: > Yes, I can relate. Vacation...now there is an opportunity to read! Although > I read quite a bit normally, there's this thing called "work" that keeps > interfering. The selection of books to read on vacation is crucial. > Sometimes, I want really light reading; other times, I want something more > inspirational. I used to read the "Karen" (nonfiction) books over and over > when my family went to West Virginia on vacation. I think I have parts of > them memorized. That's one of the reasons I love going up to my sister's beach house in the summer. There's no TV, and one wall of the living room is entirely covered in books. My niece and nephew (seven and nine) also have the reading bug - my niece reads voraciously, and has even written a "chapter book" of her own! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:47:21 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Maughm knows best - NJC Bob wrote: > << why drag hell into this? leave her alone, you heartbreaker you. >> > > You idiot! She's the one with all the frequent flyer miles. Ha-ha! Nyah, nyah, nhay-nyah, nyaaah! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha......... Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 00:04:34 -0500 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Re: halloween question, extremely NJC Deb wrote: > This stinks! This sucks! Halloween would lose all its delightful eeriness > if they move it around like President's Day. As a kid I absolutely believed > that this was the day the Dead Walked, and I don't think we can just > arbitrarily move that day around, CAN WE? > Deb, I know, it was the one night where we could let our imaginations run wild!! It's become a dress rehearsal, rather than OPENING NIGHT!!!! The Magic is gone :~( I realized this tonight as we had trick or treaters *scheduled* to come to our house from 5:30 to 8:30 the day before Halloween. jody ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:14:31 -0600 From: "Mary E. Pitassi" Subject: Children's books, NJC [NOTE: Now I see that the post I apologized about for not sending it with the "NJC" tag didn't even make it to the list this morning! Sorry if you wind up getting this twice. Again, and with some editing:] What a wonderful thread! When I was growing up, I devoured a series that I'm not sure was sold in stores, but that my family must have purchased in installments (I think my paternal aunt did the honors on behalf of us kids). It was called "The Happy Hollisters," and was written by a "Jerry West," which was really a pseudonym for Andrew E. Svenson, who was himself writing for something called the Edward Startemeyer Syndicate, as I found out today. Whew! At any rate, this was years and years before another book, "The Happy Hooker" by Xaviera Hollander, gave the book series title a whole 'nother connation. ;-) The series featured a family of five children, Pete, Pam, Ricky, Holly, and Sue, who were forever 12, 10, 7, 6, and 4, respectively (they must have had a HELL of a year!!). They had a knack for solving mysteries, and traveled everywhere, to the point that my mother sniffed, "their father owns a *hardware store.* How the *heck* do they get to go to a fraction of those places?" Years later, I might have smiled and said, "the willing suspension of disbelief." The books were chock full of information, however. It was from them that I first learned what an arroyo was, and that you could determine the age of a tree by counting the rings from the center, and the barest essentials of sign language for the deaf and hearing-impaired, and the wonders of Chinatown in New York City, and my first couple of words of Spanish. The books came every other month or so, and, as the oldest child in my family (and, for a time, the only one who could read them), I couldn't wait for the next one to arrive. I also read some of the Nancy Drew books, but just didn't fall in love with them. Same with the Bobsey Twins and the Betsy/Tacy series. One series I absolutely loved, however, was Cherry Ames. Cherry was a registered nurse, and she was smart, single, confident, loved a good mystery, worked in the most interesting of places, *always* had nearly complete control over her work environment (in contrast, I'm afraid, to some real-life RNs I've known since), and NEVER worked mandatory overtime! One book in the series had her breaking up a scam by which a ginseng product was being marketed as medicine, thus, perhaps, anticipating the "nutraceutical" industry by about 50 years, although on a much smaller scale. In another, she experienced with both the crushing poverty and the distinctly different way of life of a small Appalachian town. Maybe, if I were to read any of these books today, I would find them antiquated, or quaint, or not as well-written as I remember, or, despite the fact that I absolutely hate the phrase, "politically incorrect." However, for a child of 8 to 12 or so, they opened up a magical new reality, and that is how I will always remember them. Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:31:53 -0600 From: "Mary E. Pitassi" Subject: RE: "All I Want" Bob transcribed an early version of "All I Want": "(Hums intro) I am on a lonely road and I am traveling Looking for the truth in men and me Oh, my jealousy, my greed, they all unravel me It undoes all the joy that could be" Me now: QUITE a bit darker than the finished version! The song on _Blue_ is one of new love and possibilities, while giving some hint of storms among the rainbows; this version seems to be mainly storms. I've got to say that I like the later one a lot better! How fascinating, though, to see Joni the Writer at work. Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:42:34 -0600 From: "Mary E. Pitassi" Subject: _Valley_ memories (NJC) Coyote Rick wrote: "But, my most secret book was Valley of the Dolls. Banned in our quasi Ozzie and Harrietish household, at about age 9 or ten, I struck gold when I saw our neighbor's, the divorced Mrs. Teal with painted toenails, copy in the alley trash can. I sneaked it inside to my room and read it every night. I never got caught. It was so sexy - at least what I understood, which wasn't a lot. " Rick, so glad I'm not the only list member who came to adolescence in the late 60's/early 70's and remembers sneaking peaks at "Valley of the Dolls" as a rite of passage! I was 12 when I read the whole darn thing, but didn't have to visit Mrs. Teal's trash can: it was sitting right there on my parents' bookcase. I strongly suspect that my mother knew, but she never said a word. , Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 07:48:12 +0100 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: children's & other books NJC On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:31:33 -0800 "Kakki" wrote: > I read each of the Laura Ingalls Wilder > books about 4 times and they were also > very much my favorites. I forgot about those! Those are wonderful stories. I read all of them. In fact, I'm pretty sure I read them before I discovered A Wrinkle In Time. I like the Anne of Green Gables stories, too, but didn't discover them as books until I had seen the movie (which is excellent) about 10 years ago. I also like Harry Potter - hope they do justice to the movie. > I found a link for you and Marian regarding > Juana Maria, the lone woman of the island > of the blue dophins. > http://www.powersource.com/gallery/womansp/chumash.html Thank you for the link, Kakki. I never knew anything about what happened to her until now. Too bad she was "rescued"! > I was also so addicted to books growing up > that I would actually ditch class every afternoon > in 6th grade to go to the library and read. Looking > back I've never understood why my teacher let > me get away with it - she still gave me good > grades and never called me on it!. We had to > read at least 10 books that year and compile > our list of them at the end of the term. My > list was something like 120 books read! This is a great story! How amazing that you read so many books! Marian marian@jmdl.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 02:05:12 -0500 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Re: _Valley_ memories (NJC) My secret adolescent book was Candy- don't remember the author, but a movie starring Richard Starkey (Ringo Starr). My group of 13 year old friends passed it around, and I recall having to lock the door to the bathroom in order to read it!!! Rather hot, if I recall! Best Stephen in Vancouver "Rick, so glad I'm not the only list member who came to adolescence in the late 60's/early 70's and remembers sneaking peaks at "Valley of the Dolls" as a rite of passage! I was 12 when I read the whole darn thing, but didn't have to visit Mrs. Teal's trash can: it was sitting right there on my parents' bookcase. I strongly suspect that my mother knew, but she never said a word. , Mary P." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 22:07:19 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: _Valley_ memories (NJC) I was around 16 and my mother was raving about the book and *wanted* me to read it!! Of course, because it was my mother wanted me to do something, I didn't want to do it, so I missed out! Kakki > Rick, so glad I'm not the only list member who came to adolescence in the late > 60's/early 70's and remembers sneaking peaks at "Valley of the Dolls" as a > rite of passage! I was 12 when I read the whole darn thing, but didn't have > to visit Mrs. Teal's trash can: it was sitting right there on my parents' > bookcase. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #528 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?