From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #523 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, October 28 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 523 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: October 28 [les@jmdl.com] Today's Articles: October 28 [les@jmdl.com] Re: october 28!!!!!! njc ["Marian" ] Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc [PMcfad@aol.com] Christmas CDs NJC [ZZScotty@aol.com] halloween question, extremely NJC ["Deb Messling" ] RE: Christmas CDs NJC ["Deb Messling" ] Re: october 28!!!!!! njc ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] RE: Christmas CDs NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Three years ago today... ["Sue Cameron" ] Re: children's books NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] RE: the book disease NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: children's books NJC [colin ] Re: children's books NJC [colin ] Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc ["Kakki" ] RE: children's books NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Hypocrisy (njc) [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Re: Joni's time signatures -- thanks, Howard [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] A technical question for guitarists [Gertus@aol.com] Galeano NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] Re: A technical question for guitarists [slarty ] Re: fair? njc ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: A technical question for guitarists ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Song Polls ["Jamie Zubairi" ] RE: children's books NJC ["Deb Messling" ] book disease NJC warning long [TimandMaryPowers@aol.com] Re: A technical question for guitarists [Gertus@aol.com] Re: Song Polls [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: A technical question for guitarists [Gertus@aol.com] Re: Hypocrisy (njc) [colin ] Re: Song Polls ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: Song Polls ["Jamie Zubairi" ] all i want ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: all i want [Nuriel Tobias ] Those who saw Joni in Toronto know [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Hypocrisy (njc) ["Kakki" ] Re: Hypocrisy (njc) [colin ] Re: Hypocrisy (njc) ["Kakki" ] Re: Song Polls [RoseMJoy@aol.com] smashing pumpkins - njc [PMcfad@aol.com] Re: smashing pumpkins - njc ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: smashing pumpkins - njc ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: Christmas CDs NJC ["Victor Johnson" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 03:11:39 -0500 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: October 28 On October 28 in Joni Mitchell History: 1998: Joni performs in Detroit. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/performances/docs/981028.cfm http://jonimitchell.com/RoadAgainDetroit1098.html - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 03:11:39 -0500 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: October 28 On October 28 this article was published: 1998: "Preview of NYC Performance by Bob and Joni" - Time Out New York (Concert Preview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/981028tony.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 646 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 09:30:30 +0100 From: "Marian" Subject: Re: october 28!!!!!! njc Hey, Julius!!! I hope you have a wonderful birthday! Love, Marian On Sun, 28 Oct 2001 04:02:08 -0300 "Wally Kairuz" wrote: > happy birthday julius!!!!!!!!! > wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 06:32:59 EST From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc um...well....to respond honestly to the questions: > I'm not sure how you mean this - that the list is an anomaly because it is a > music list and most people would rather discuss the music, or that the music > somehow indicates a certain bent toward favoring one position over another? > i'd have to say...yes and yes. the list is what now...600 people? i know...only a few posters actually participate in the discussions. there are some who only want to discuss the music and get frustrated when the issues extend toward politics or controversy....ie. paz. at the same time....i do think we as a group maintain a slightly different demographic make up than say.....the rush limbaugh list....the jerry falwell list.....the metallica list....etc. to me...the joni mitchell list is the only cool list i've found and the only one i maintain over time because of the unique individuals that show up over time. i mean...the mark formerly known as mark in seattle...now known as E.....wallybear...the whore of babylon....colin...the tantric catman....paul i.....eat shit and die.....victor and the muppets. you know...every once in a while victor says something about muppets....well he has muppets all over his house...the dude's a muppet head.... we are an ecclectic bunch of folks with divergent views. i love us all here. at the same time....i know there is a whole block of individuals who get up in the morning and go to work and never even think about some of the things we've discussed. i guess i would agree that if we polled the 600...we'd find a representation of typical values. maybe. maybe i'd need to see that to believe it. i mean...i know for a fact that when you combine joni mitchell with dave matthews....you get really interesting results (and i ain't going any further on that one). i don't know. i've seen things over the years i've never seen anywhere else. and you know....i'm comforted by that...because i've found others like me here. but i still think we're different. in michigan i got in a car with four other jmdlers i've never met and in five minutes we could talk like we've known each other for years. it's a different place here i think. pat np. cartoons ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 07:16:30 EST From: ZZScotty@aol.com Subject: Christmas CDs NJC Peace, by Rotary Connection (wish I had it on CD, I have the album, but my turntable is belt-driven, and can't get those big rubber bands anymore). Also: Bing Crosby sings Christmas Songs ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 07:45:39 -0500 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: halloween question, extremely NJC I'd appreciate replies to a little survey about trick-or-treat, for those of you in countries that do this. Does your town hold trick-or-treat on Halloween night itself, or on a weekend night prior to Halloween? Please reply privately so as not to burden the list with this extremely idiosyncratic request. Thanks! - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling =^..^= - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 07:54:17 -0500 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: Christmas CDs NJC I'm a fanatic about Christmas music, and the Joan Baez CD is one of my favorites. Some others: Christmas - Bruce Cockburn (with an alternate version of the song Baez does, Down in Yon Forest) Sing We Now of Christmas - The Christmas Revels Christmas Night: Carols of the Nativity - The Cambridge Singers To Drive the Cold Winter Away - Loreena McKennitt (a little too ethereal, but I love the songs) Bright Day Star - Baltimore Consort (fantastic early-music group) Last Night of the Year - Kingston Trio The Bells of Dublin - Chieftains & Co Oy to the World - The Klezmanauts (klezmer versions of Christmas carols. Way cool!) And you know there may be more... > just curious - what are your favorite Christmas CDs? Mine is > Noel by Joan > Baez. The email on the Isle of Wight festival made me think of it. - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling =^..^= - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 07:52:21 -0600 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: october 28!!!!!! njc Happy Birthday Julius!!! Marian wrote: > > Hey, Julius!!! I hope you have a wonderful birthday! > > Love, > > Marian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 09:38:26 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Happy Birthday!!!! Happy Birthday Julius!!! Much love, Rose in Noo Joirzy rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:27:58 EST From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: children's books NJC Hello, just curious - what are your favorite children's books and are there any commonalities among them? Mine are Karen by Marie Killilea (nonfiction about a girl with cerebral palsy growing up in the 1940's), The Little White Horse by Elizabeth Goudge (fiction about a girl in Victorian England who goes to her uncle's country estate, and Tom's Midnight Garden by Phillipa Pearce (fiction about a boy who stays with his aunt and uncle and finds a garden in "a secret place in time". these books were all written in the early post-WWII period. Maybe I should look at others from that time. Mary (thinking back to childhood) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:45:24 EST From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: the book disease NJC does anyone else have the book disease? "when I get a little money I buy books, if any is left I buy food and clothes" - - Erasmus if you have the book disease, that's not entirely a joke. I'd love to share my story with the similarly afflicted. Mary ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 09:15:31 -0500 From: "Steve Polifka" Subject: Re: Naming the Supremes And Tammy Terrell- yea yea yea- Sheesh! LOL! Steve - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 10:26 PM Subject: Re: Naming the Supremes > In a message dated 10/26/01 7:35:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Murphycopy@aol.com writes: > > << What about Cindy Birdsong? >> > and Sherrie Payne? > > No regrets, > > Coyote Rick > Casa Alegre > Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 08:30:39 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: RE: Christmas CDs NJC >To Drive the Cold Winter Away - Loreena McKennitt (a little too ethereal, >but I love the songs >The Bells of Dublin - Chieftains & Co Another Loreena McKennit Christmas Cd is the beautiful and haunting---A Winter Garden. Snow (makes me wish that I would have snow to walk in up to my eyeballs while listening) and Seeds of Love------absolutely gorgeous!!! Incidentally, my niece is being married today and the theme is of the wedding is Celtic and Medieval. A lot of Loreena will be played as well as the Chieftains. I can't believe it... my sweet baby (28 years) I use to read to her while she sat on my lap is getting married and likes practically the same music as I. Although, I'm still trying to turn her on to Joni. :-) Bree.......who is nervous for her and swears she won't cry. Ya, right!! >----------------------------------- >Deb Messling =^..^= >----------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 11:41:58 -0500 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: Three years ago today... Dear listers, It was three years ago today that I had the wonderful opportunity to be in the presence of Joni Mitchell. My thanks go out to the late Wally Breese, Les Irvin, and Terry Matlan. Funny, because the day was bright and sunny much like it is here now.... Remembering this day has always brought me a sense of calm, even though I was the only one in the group to yell out something unfortunate. The best part of meeting up with Joni was walking out of the restaurant/bar. listening to her tell the story of the mockingbird who would sing when it heard a car climing, climbing, climbing the hill. Would love to hear everyone's best Joni in person moment(s).... Also, happy birthday Julius...sure did miss you in Topsfield... Sue n.p. Ben Folds "Losing Lisa" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 09:09:10 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: children's books NJC Little Women is number one on my list. And the C. S. Lewis children's books: Narnia and The Witch In The Wardrobe. I like his non-children's books too. And loved the movie about his life......Shadowlands. I don't cry easily and this movie made me cry like a bawling baby. Commonalities among them would I guess would be spirituality and death and dying. Bree >Hello, > >just curious - what are your favorite children's books and are there any >commonalities among them? Mine are Karen by Marie Killilea (nonfiction >about >a girl with cerebral palsy growing up in the 1940's), The Little White >Horse >by Elizabeth Goudge (fiction about a girl in Victorian England who goes to >her uncle's country estate, and Tom's Midnight Garden by Phillipa Pearce >(fiction about a boy who stays with his aunt and uncle and finds a garden >in >"a secret place in time". > >these books were all written in the early post-WWII period. Maybe I should >look at others from that time. > >Mary (thinking back to childhood) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:49:48 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: the book disease NJC infected and terminal here! wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Enviado el: Domingo, 28 de Octubre de 2001 12:45 p.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: the book disease NJC does anyone else have the book disease? "when I get a little money I buy books, if any is left I buy food and clothes" - - Erasmus if you have the book disease, that's not entirely a joke. I'd love to share my story with the similarly afflicted. Mary ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:52:27 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: children's books NJC Enid Blyton-Most of them. Alan Garner-The Weirdstone of Brisingamon, Elidor, The Moon of Gomrath, The Owl Service. Whoever it was that wrote My Darlimng My Hamburger. JK Rowling-All the Harry Potter books. Okay so i only read them this year! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:54:10 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: children's books NJC > And the C. S. Lewis children's > books: Narnia and The Witch In The Wardrobe. how could i have forgotton these? I read the whole lot! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 09:08:39 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc Thanks for your response, Pat - you wrote: > i'd have to say...yes and yes. the list is what now...600 people? i > know...only a few posters actually participate in the discussions. there are > some who only want to discuss the music and get frustrated when the issues > extend toward politics or controversy....ie. paz. > at the same time....i do think we as a group maintain a slightly different > demographic make up than say.....the rush limbaugh list....the jerry falwell > list.....the metallica list....etc. Yes, I agree the demographic is definitely different in that respect. I would doubt there are many, if any, here who are also on a Rush Limbaugh list and certainly would doubt there are any at all on a Jerry Falwell list. Metallica - who knows? ;-) > we are an ecclectic bunch of folks with divergent views. i love us all here. > at the same time.... That's what I have always loved about the list, too. > but i still think we're different. in michigan i got in a car with four > other jmdlers i've never met and in five minutes we could talk like we've > known each other for years. it's a different place here i think. Yes it is. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:59:28 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: children's books NJC the eloise series by kay thompson and hilary knight. j.m. barrie' books [e.g., the peter pan series]. momo by michael ende the water babies by charles kingley the wind in the willows [MY FAVORITE EVER] in general, victorian books. the works of maria elena walsh. ludwig bemelmans' madeline books. wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 13:07:05 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Hypocrisy (njc) Hi, all, I agree with Colin that we are all by nature a pile of contradictions ("Do I contradict myself? Very well..." -- W. Whitman), but if you want a real award-winning example of it, check out this article in the Village Voice regarding the N.Y. Time's Andrew Sullivan: http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0125/goldstein.php Wish *I* had the cojones to spring back like that -- or on second thought, no, I'm glad I don't. Warmly, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 13:43:51 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's time signatures -- thanks, Howard Thank you, Howard! I've printed up what you wrote regarding the time signatures on TI, TtT, and will be looking at it when I listen to the songs again. -- Walt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 13:51:06 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: A technical question for guitarists I've been puzzling about something arising from Karen O'Brien's biography, "Shadows and Light". At least twice Karen mentions the fact that polio left Joni with a deficiency in her left side which meant she was unable to master a "Cotten picking" style of guitar playing. While I can see that a weakness of the right hand could lead to difficulty in this respect I can't see why a problem with the left hand would lead to her "ending up playing mostly the 6th string, banging it into the 5th." Looking at early footage of Joni's playing she seems to use a highly developed finger picking style, although it's true this was later abandoned. The development of her many tunings as the result of left hand weakness I can understand as they make for more comfortable fingering on the whole, although more barring which takes quite a lot of strength. Comments welcome, Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 16:28:26 +0100 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Galeano NJC One of my students (a Law professor) sends a short poem to all the people on his mailing list every Friday. It is sometimes in Spanish, sometimes in Catalan, sometimes in French and sometimes in English. All his friends say they enjoy 30 seconds of poetry before they start their day. With the same aim in mind I intend to send something brief by Eduardo Galeano each weekend so that the jonilistas in North America will receive it when they wake on Monday morning. Spanish versions are available on request. Please give me feedback on this. If you want me to continue I will: if you want me to stop, say so. Have a good week. mike in bcn The first one is set in New York and is dedicated to the people who died on the 11th of September. 1944: New York 'Learning to See' It is noon and James Baldwin is walking with a friend through the streets of downtown Manhattan. A red light stops them. 'Look,' says the friend, pointing at the ground. Baldwin looks. He sees nothing. 'Look, look.' Nothing. There is nothing to look at but a filthy little pool of water against the curb. His friend insists: 'See? Are you seeing?' And then Baldwin takes a good look and this time he sees, sees a spot of oil spreading in the pool. Then, in the spot of oil, a rainbow, and even deeper down in the pool, the street moving, and people moving in the street: the shipwrecked, the madmen, the magicians, the whole world moving, an astounding world full of worlds that glow in the world. Baldwin sees. For the first time in his life, he sees. by Eduardo Galeano. from 'Century of the Wind' p.125 (Vol III of 'Memory of Fire'). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:28:38 -0500 From: slarty Subject: Re: A technical question for guitarists It's possible that she has trouble using regular bar chords as you have to put quite a bit of pressure on the neck with your left hand. Specially when you are learning. It's also possible that she was taking flak from some people for using her system and used that as an excuse though I favour the first reason. Gertus@aol.com wrote: > I've been puzzling about something arising from Karen O'Brien's biography, > "Shadows and Light". At least twice Karen mentions the fact that polio left > Joni with a deficiency in her left side which meant she was unable to master > a "Cotten picking" style of guitar playing. While I can see that a weakness > of the right hand could lead to difficulty in this respect I can't see why a > problem with the left hand would lead to her "ending up playing mostly the > 6th string, banging it into the 5th." Looking at early footage of Joni's > playing she seems to use a highly developed finger picking style, although > it's true this was later abandoned. The development of her many tunings as > the result of left hand weakness I can understand as they make for more > comfortable fingering on the whole, although more barring which takes quite a > lot of strength. > > Comments welcome, > Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:37:51 -0600 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: fair? njc Yea, Kate. She was wonderful. Would have loved to have kept her as governor and would not have been real upset if she had been the president. She definitely would have done things to suit me. She lost to Georgie Peorgie in the governors race. Texas is one odd political climate. The senators and the rep. that I mentioned are all far right on the page, so much that you cannot even see them there. I write them all relentlessly and have yet to get a response that is anything close to what I wanted. They probably see the ACLU tag on the letters and that sways their already biased opinions farther away from wanting to even read what I have written. Stenholm and Gramm are at least gracious in their blowoff letters. Hutchinson is not even that, if she writes back at all. Come back Anne, please. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:00:05 -0000 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: A technical question for guitarists Hi Jacky!! I think the 'Cotten' picking technique required a more articulate left hand on the bass lines, alternating the 6th string and 5th string bass lines to get a more 'folk' sound (like Suzanne Vega's 'Gypsy' for example) where a more articulate left hand would enable the player to get a bassline that is a little more.... flexible. Big Yellow Taxi, employs a little bit of this but I guess by this time Joni is so used to NOT utilising this technique, she just strums the 6th and 5th strings together, but the left hand alternating bass gives it a more boogie-woogie feel. I'm not sure if this is right but it's my take on what she means. Peace Much Joni Jamie Zoob - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 6:51 PM Subject: A technical question for guitarists > I've been puzzling about something arising from Karen O'Brien's biography, > "Shadows and Light". At least twice Karen mentions the fact that polio left > Joni with a deficiency in her left side which meant she was unable to master > a "Cotten picking" style of guitar playing. While I can see that a weakness > of the right hand could lead to difficulty in this respect I can't see why a > problem with the left hand would lead to her "ending up playing mostly the > 6th string, banging it into the 5th." Looking at early footage of Joni's > playing she seems to use a highly developed finger picking style, although > it's true this was later abandoned. The development of her many tunings as > the result of left hand weakness I can understand as they make for more > comfortable fingering on the whole, although more barring which takes quite a > lot of strength. > > Comments welcome, > Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 16:18:20 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: october 28!!!!!! njc - --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > happy birthday julius!!!!!!!!! For sure! Happy birthday to one of the most articulate people on the list! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:47:24 -0000 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Song Polls I have been to the jmdl site and I have voted for songs and alums. I have noticed NO ONE HAS EVER VOTED FOR LOVE OR MONEY!!!! Does this make it the worst Joni song ever? Or is it because it's stuck in the end of a double live album that not that many people will have had or heard... (then again, only members can vote, so I'm assuming that most of us will have heard it....) I've been thinking (don't do it Jamie, you;re meant to be learning your lines for the audition on Wednesday and thinking isn't your strong point...) has anyone else heard the original (well, the first draft) of All I Want? She premieres it during her televised set on the BBC and she uses some strange phrasing but the theme of the song is 'All I really wanted love to do' like the love affair is over and she is looking back at a relationship that she wanted to be beautiful and different and he just didn't get it. It's on one of the video trees Anyway, if anyone wants to discuss this, please lets! Much Joni Jamie Zoob Peace ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 16:53:01 -0500 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: children's books NJC Two of my favorites were The Little Princess by Frances Hodgeson Burnett and Harriet the Spy by Louise Fitzhugh. It's hard to compare the two books, but they do both deal with kids who are treated poorly by their peers. I was picked on sometimes, so they were a comfort. The heroines were both serious, smart little girls, as was I in those days. >just curious - what are your favorite children's books and are there any > >commonalities among them? > - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling =^..^= - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:06:55 EST From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: book disease NJC warning long OK, here are some symptoms of the book disease: first of all, I *will* send out those books I promised tomorrow. If you want books and haven't already sent your address, please do so. On to my symptoms: - - Inability to pass a bookstore without entering (and probably buying, though I'm getting better) - - Thinking constantly about books and which new ones I'd like to acquire - - Reading about fanatical book collectors through history, such as described in Nicholas Basbanes' A Gentle Madness, and thinking, 'hey, I don't have it that bad'. In Used and Rare Larry and Nancy Goldstone document their travels thru the book world. I actually calculated the amount they spent on books (it was about $7000) and reassured myself that that is more than I actually spend, therefore I am safe. - - Flirting with the idea of collecting first editions (watch the price go up exponentially). For example, there is a beautiful copy of the Little White Horse in fine condition (fine is the top) for 507.00. Did I mention it was th e first UK edition? that's the real first edition, not the lowly first US edition. Now the Little White Horse is available in reprint copy for 10.00 or so (and I've ordered it - my original copy fell to pieces) but geez, the reprint does not have that beautiful blue cover with the gold embossing! And it doesn't have the illustrations either (I don't think. waiting to get my copy). I really want that 507.00 copy. Getting into first editions is dangerous. - -spending time on listservs debating the merits of various books with like-minded fanatics. - - Getting pissed off when a wanted book can't be found "because this is DC, damn it" and spending a half-hour calling bookstores because someone must have it and I don't want to wait for the internet version. And I want to own it too. The book was Anya Seton's Katherine and I found it in a used book store for 2.00. - - Falling in love with expensive art books because they are pretty and buying them and then looking at the pictures, not reading the words. At least this provides a slight remedial education in art. For example, I successfully ID'd a postcard as the presentation of the queen of Sheba by piero della francesca. Chance in hell I would have known that before. - - Feeling rather strange because you get into stories so much. Wanting someone to discuss with. Most people will humor you but sadly they will not understand. - - mixing up your own life with what you read in stories - - buying books faster than you can read them, but continuing to buy them anyway - - Getting passionately worked up by those academic books in which people argue. For example, in "Dissociative Identity Disorder," just loving it when you compare and contrast Michael Simpson, a skeptic of many claims of child abuse, with Denise Gelinas, who says that therapists who treat trauma survivors are persecuted. - - Feeling a personal sense of betrayal when an author does the "wrong" thing. For example, in one of Lois McMaster Bujold's books, she has Miles drift out of the military into another career. Waste a lot of life energy chastising Bujold in your head because Miles's career change should have been a conscious decision, not an accident! Will happily expound on this ad nauseam. Lois, how could you???? - - Spending time daydreaming about books rather than living IRL. Get accused of being self-absorbed and selfish by parents. Wish your parents were more like the parents in your favorite book, Karen. - - Spending far too much money on books. (and I mean a lot. thousands of dollars a year) - - Spending far too much time typing emails in which you express your love for books. - - Going to library science school thinking it's all about books and discovering it's really about databases. One great exception: the course on children's literature. Which was almost cancelled because so few students were interested. Get really angry about how library schools ignore literature. - - Wonder if you are ever going to be good for anything IRL because you're so preoccupied with dreams and thoughts about books. Decide probably not (see self-absorbed and selfish, above). Settle for a career as a bureaucrat because you are sure that your real interests would lead you to starvation. However, hang onto the dream of having your own bookstore someday. - - Spend a lot of time surfing the Internet for books and talking to people about books. When you see someone with a book, you *must* see what they are reading. It could be something fascinating that you haven't discovered yet! - - When you hear about a great story, you must read it, preferably ASAP. None of this I learned in school btw. all despite school. it's a sick addition, but secretely I am proud of it because at least I will learn something. www.bookguys.com Mary ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:30:20 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: A technical question for guitarists In a message dated 28/10/01 21:00:46 GMT Standard Time, jamiezoob@freeuk.com writes: > > I think the 'Cotten' picking technique required a more articulate left hand > on the bass lines, alternating the 6th string and 5th string bass lines to > get a more 'folk' sound (like Suzanne Vega's 'Gypsy' for example) where a > more articulate left hand would enable the player to get a bassline that is > a little more.... flexible. Ah right! That does make some sense to me now. I was thinking more in terms of just holding down the chord while alternating 5th and 6th strings. Thanks for that, Jamie, Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:46:36 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Song Polls ...And in the same double live album she ends the song with "i want to make you feel" instead of "i want to make you feel free". I love the live version. The guitar sounds like a train on speed. lots of love and life to ya' Nuri - --- "Jamie Zubairi" > wrote: >I have been to the jmdl site and I have voted for songs and alums. I have >noticed > >NO ONE HAS EVER VOTED FOR LOVE OR MONEY!!!! > >Does this make it the worst Joni song ever? Or is it because it's stuck in >the end of a double live album that not that many people will have had or >heard... (then again, only members can vote, so I'm assuming that most of us >will have heard it....) > >I've been thinking (don't do it Jamie, you;re meant to be learning your >lines for the audition on Wednesday and thinking isn't your strong point...) >has anyone else heard the original (well, the first draft) of All I Want? >She premieres it during her televised set on the BBC and she uses some >strange phrasing but the theme of the song is > >'All I really wanted love to do' > >like the love affair is over and she is looking back at a relationship that >she wanted to be beautiful and different and he just didn't get it. > >It's on one of the video trees > > >Anyway, if anyone wants to discuss this, please lets! > >Much Joni > >Jamie Zoob > >Peace _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:49:49 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: A technical question for guitarists In a message dated 28/10/01 19:31:00 GMT Standard Time, slarty@sympatico.ca writes: > > It's possible that she has trouble using regular bar chords as you have to > put > quite a bit of pressure on the neck with your left hand. Specially when you > are > learning. It's also possible that she was taking flak from some people for > using > her system and used that as an excuse though I favour the first reason. > Yep - I see that. What I couldn't see was why that necessitated a different right hand technique but I'm getting there. Many thanks, Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 22:50:32 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Hypocrisy (njc) thanks for posting the link, Walt. I think both Sullivan and Paglia are goode xamples of homophobia internalised. as such, compassion could be a reaction after the inital anger and disgust. I guess that i didn't really mean this sort of blatent hypocrisy either. I find it very distasteful. The hypocrisy shown in my belief system is not deliberate but rather the reslut of indoctrination in childhood-ie. on the one hand being appalled by sexism and on the other having sexist thoughts and feelings. or being anti racist yet on the other having racist reactions. When one grows up being taught types of human are 'less than' it is very difficult to undo it. But undo it we must. when for many years we see a rac of people portrayed as violent and criminal, it is imbedded in the psyche and diffiuclt o dislodge, no matter how embarrasing it is. However, the self hatred shown by Sullivan(and it seems Paglia) is entirely different. it is calculated. It is presenting one image to the public, decrying one way of living(which i detest my self, more about that later) in order to be accepted and liked. Chronic people pleasing is a sign of self hatred. Yes, how the man operates is dreadful. It is also very sad and yet another product of deeply ingrained homophobia which none of us escape, not even we homsexuals. whoich leads me onto why i detest the culture he condemns(but lives in and revels in). When i was oyung I was a part of that scene-clubbing, sex and more sex. Did I enjoy it? Sometimes but mostly no. It just increased my self loathing. What was i doing then? Looking for acceptance and love. Only I wasn't going to find it that way! How could I? When what i was doing was not about accpetance and love and I was doing with others who also were driven by the same emptiness.(This is not confined to gay people-str8's do it too and for the same reasons tho the root of the loathing is different). What i really wnated was a normal everyday life shared with one person whom I loved and accepted as is and who likewise accepted and loved me. i found that. I was lucky. It gave me the perch i needed to do the work I needed to do on myself.(ditto for my partner). Of course that work never ends, life is about growing and learning. Having said all that, i do not believe that people who act out the way Sullivan does(and the culture he condemns) are bad people, just the 'lost and lonely ones clamouring to be found'. It REALLY pisses me off that this type of behaviour is used to beat us over the head with by the homophobes. THEY are the ones who sowed the seed for ti in the first place! Thru their laws and their hatred of us, they have made it very difficlut indeed to have long term relationships, in fact in may places it is illegal, punsihable by prison or death. the EXCLUDE us at every turn, close or bar meeting places, disallow marriage,refuse to take our reltionships seriously, force us underground. so when we resort ot meeting in public loos or backrooms or dark alleys because that is all THEY have left us with, they can say 'see we told you, these people are sick'!!!!! Of course, whilst one is looking for or indulging in sex, one does not have the time to be feeling the internal pain one is experiencing. So it becomes addictive, a way of keeping the darkness at bay, a way of keeping from being annihilated. So whilst we might be disgusted at Sullivan's overt hypocrisy, we might also feel compassion and understandign for him. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 16:51:24 -0600 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: Song Polls Jaime, I voted for it once because I felt sorry for it but it did not show up. Must be a technical glitch. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 23:01:46 -0000 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: Song Polls lol!!! I'm not sure if I would consider it a great effort in the Joni Mitchell final songlist... I mean, she describes it as a 'portrait of a disappointment - my favourite theme, hahahahaha' which, I dunno, may be indicative of a little boredom on her behalf of the themes that she is used to writing, maybe she wrote it and decided, 'hmmm this is what I usually do' and got bored with it... Anyways Peace and much Joni Jamie Zoob - ----- Original Message ----- From: Dolphie Bush To: joni Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 10:51 PM Subject: Re: Song Polls > Jaime, I voted for it once because I felt sorry for it but it did not show > up. Must be a technical glitch. > > Mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:11:00 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: all i want hey nuri, fwiw: it's a dulcimer not a guitar. wallyK >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The guitar sounds like a train on speed. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:24:29 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: all i want Be kind to my mistakes. - --- "Wally Kairuz" > wrote: >hey nuri, >fwiw: >it's a dulcimer not a guitar. >wallyK >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > The guitar sounds like a train on speed. _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:49:54 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Those who saw Joni in Toronto know Hi dear freinds, Could all our lucky listers who saw Joni in Toronto and heard her new demos please tell us EVRYTHING about them? 1000000 times please and 1000001 times thanks. Lots of love and life to ya' Nuri _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:00:06 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Hypocrisy (njc) Regarding hypocrisy - I'm not sure how to exactly define it sometimes. We can all be hypocrites in some ways because we are not pure and perfect, and I'm not sure we are meant to be. I can agree with someone completely on one issue and disagree with them on every other issue or agree with someone 90% of the time but not the other 10%. I think if everyone agreed with everyone else 100% of the time, we would cease to exist as a species. Diversity is the essence of survival. It is reflective that we are individuals and that we can think and consider issues on many levels and from many perspectives. I don't think anyone knows everything there is to know or can ever know everything. I think we all should strive to live up to our ideals - that is integrity - but we should not feel locked in to one position for fear of being called a hypocrite. Integrity is also about admitting we may not know everything and admitting that we may have changed our positions based on new information. That's why one could oppose the Vietnam war and other wars, but also support the current operation. All wars make me cringe, including this one, but I also can't think of any other real choice we have to protect ourselves at this point. Life is for learning. I really liked what Michael Y. said the other day about the "right-left fallacy" because "so many views that we tend to think go together are the result of particular American histories rather than any real philosophical consistency." Being flexible in one's beliefs, based on conscience, indicates open-mindedness to me and seems to me to be a virtue. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 00:51:10 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Hypocrisy (njc) > Being flexible > in one's beliefs, based on conscience, indicates open-mindedness to me and > seems to me to be a virtue. I agree. tho we do have to be prepared to accept responsibility for our conscience. Like I said in an earlier post, I believe in the principle of 'thou shalt not kill' yet i believe in euthanasia. if I believe it is right to bomb another country for whatever reason, I accept that in such circumstances, i also believe it is right to kill children, women and men in order to further my aims. there is no escaping that. As I cannot ever accept that it is right to kill children, especially, to achieve my aims, I cannot support war. War KILLS people, people just like those who died in NY and Wsashington. So if I say I support war, then i am sayoing I believe it is right to kill other human beings to achieve my aims. However, as I also said before, I have no problem with killing Osama Bin Ladin and the like for in doing so we save the lives of many others. If one has any spiritual beliefs, like that we survive death, then how do we account for our beliefs then that it was okay for the 10 year old son of the Taliban leader to be killed? How do we justify that? I don't believe we can. i do believe we will be held accoutnable for our beliefs as well as our actions. If I believe it is right to kill then i am accountabkle for the deaths that result even if i did not pull the trigger. The same way, as I believe it is right to help a aperson die in sevre cases of disease and pain, I am accountable for those deaths that result from this. I will have to account my support. My support dooes enable such things to happen. Perhaps I am not explaining myself very well, but I am trying to say there is a very real connection between what we believe and what happens. So that even if i do not pull the trigger, I am still accountable if I support pulling the rigger. > > > Kakki - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 16:13:48 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Hypocrisy (njc) > Perhaps I am not explaining myself very well, but I am trying to say there is a > very real connection between what we believe and what happens. So that even if i > do not pull the trigger, I am still accountable if I support pulling the rigger. I understand that from a standpoint of conscience. That's why this situation is such a dilemma. The Taliban were given a month to turn over Bin Laden peacefully. I do believe there is an abundance of proof that has been documented over the past decade that he is responsible and I wouldn't assume that we hadn't turned over proof to then just because they said so. I don't understand why some people don't regard the film footage of him and one of his right-hand people claiming credit and saying there will be more attacks against us as proof in itself, even if one had never learned about all the convictions in U.S. Courts against his operatives for many years. Even if he did not personally carry out the attacks (pull the trigger) he orchestrated, ordered and facilitated that trigger and all the other triggers that killed innocent people in the past 10 or so years. It's like the case of Charles Manson - he did not personally murder the victims, but orchestrated, ordered and facilitated the murders. Does that justify the killing of innocent children in Afghanistan? From a moral standpoint, no. However, it can also be asked if it is moral for the Taliban to have not gotten their children out of harm's way when they knew in advance that attacks were coming for a month? What kind of parent would ever put their child in harm's way like that? Another question - does the U.S. let perhaps thousands more innocent children and adults be killed by the terrorists because rather than risk one dead child in Afghanistan. It's a moral question that has always been a tough one and there are no easy answers. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:09:16 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Song Polls In a message dated 10/28/01 4:48:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, jamiezoob@freeuk.com writes: > I've been thinking (don't do it Jamie, you;re meant to be learning your > lines for the audition on Wednesday and thinking isn't your strong > point...) LOL, I think you think just fine Jamie, I love your posts. > > has anyone else heard the original (well, the first draft) of All I Want? > She premieres it during her televised set on the BBC and she uses some > strange phrasing but the theme of the song is > > 'All I really wanted love to do' > > like the love affair is over and she is looking back at a relationship that > she wanted to be beautiful and different and he just didn't get it. > > It's on one of the video trees > I've heard it Jamie Perhaps she's trying to convey to her lover what her needs are and that he's not meeting them. She's saying, here I've got this great love to give and if you reciprocate, we can both have the pleasure of being loved. But he's maybe not as emotional as she is or maybe he's afraid to let go of himself. Perhaps she's putting the pressure on to meet her expectations. Another take is that maybe the relationship is changing to something more low keyed, less emotional and she regrets that there's this loss of passion in their relationship. Just some of my thoughts..... ~Rose rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:20:02 EST From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: smashing pumpkins - njc we recently moved from a very small private neighborhood in south georgia to a city suburb in north carolina. i love the bigger city feel and being more northern. we can even get a cheese steak around here. but today, i came out of the house to find the pumpkins we bought for the kids last weekend smashed in the street in a big clump. and it was like...ok...welcome to the neighborhood. and to top it all off....it's really cold in north carolina as compared to florida and georgia. and i hate the cold. on the touchy and feely side, we went to church today. about 14 young teenagers sang a song in front of the church accompanied by a beautiful acoustic piano. it went something like: we are the voice of god..for the sick and the down trodden, for those suffering with aids, for those with addictions, for the weary and weak...we are the voice of god. anyway, i found it very touching ....even given my hard hearted thoughts toward the events of 9/11. i guess the acoustic piano and the line about the voice of god reminded me of fred who plays the piano but goes to church in the woods. i think he would have liked that song today. pat ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 19:31:55 -0600 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: smashing pumpkins - njc Wow Pat, that is really ratty about the pumpkins. Please tell me what is a cheese steak. Never, ever, heard that term anywhere in my 44 years of life. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 19:31:55 -0600 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: smashing pumpkins - njc Wow Pat, that is really ratty about the pumpkins. Please tell me what is a cheese steak. Never, ever, heard that term anywhere in my 44 years of life. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 23:25:59 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Christmas CDs NJC > just curious - what are your favorite Christmas CDs? Mine is Noel by Joan > Baez. The email on the Isle of Wight festival made me think of it. That was always my favorite one as well. Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #523 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?