From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #520 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, October 27 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 520 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Ben Folds (njc) [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] NJC The Gourds (njc) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Tori does "River" [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] To Terry: Macca vs. Mick (njc) [Janene Otten ] Subject: Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc ["Kate Bennett" ] anne njc ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: anne njc ["Kakki" ] Re: Subject: Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Subject: Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc [TimandMaryPowers@aol.com] [none] ["marianne marianne" ] Re: Subject: Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Subject: Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc [TimandMaryPowers@aol.com] Re: Subject: Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: Flags njc [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Bouncy Hell NJC ["hell" ] Re: To Terry: Macca vs. Mick (njc) [colin ] school reports njc ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: Flags njc [colin ] Joni on BRAVO!!!!!!!! YAY!!!!!!!!! [AsharaJM@aol.com] Tiny (Case of you) [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Anne (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Mars njc [TimandMaryPowers@aol.com] Re: Jimmy's new jump [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Was Pro-American/what should our response be? long njc ["Brenda J. Walke] Radio Sonicnet RIP - NJC ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Re: War etc NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Subject: Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: joy, joy, joy, joy NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: foolish bob NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Bouncy Hell NJC ["Kakki" ] Re: Bouncy Hell NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Bouncy Hell NJC ["Kakki" ] Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Geriatric rockers..... NJC [TerryM2222@aol.com] Re: Naming the Supremes [Coyote4Joni@aol.com] Re: To Terry: Macca vs. Mick (njc) [TerryM2222@aol.com] Re: Bouncy Hell NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Golden Birthday ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] Re: Anne (NJC) ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] Re: Jim Crow njc ["Brenda J. Walker" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:26:55 EDT From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Ben Folds (njc) In a message dated 10/26/01 10:14:25 AM, SCJoniGuy writes: << Gourds, "I Like Drinking" >> lol. Huh??!! Sounds like my kind of group! What can you tell me/us about *them*? btw, thanks for the info on Ben Folds -- I didn't know until I'd finally finished the digests that you'd already clarified the BF info, and better than I had. Walt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:51:51 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC The Gourds (njc) ***<< Gourds, "I Like Drinking" >> lol. Huh??!! Sounds like my kind of group! What can you tell me/us about *them*?*** Well, not much...it's a track on K-Tel's "exposed roots - the best of alt.country". Here's what the liner notes say: "Whatever differences may drive apart rockers & rednecks much of the time, drinkin' songs inevitably bring them together. The Gourds, from Texas by way of Louisiana, turned in this textbook example of the form on their 1998 album Stadium Blitzer. Parlaying instrumentation such as mandolin, accordion, and lap steel into a rootsy, backwoods sound often reminiscent of The Band, The Gourds top it all off with high lonesome vocals from Jimmy Smith and Kevin Russell." Also, a little known fact, this song was used in Jimmy Stewart's "I'm a ice-skatin' redneck, goldurn it!" exhibition show last year! :~D Bob, at work but certainly not working... NP: 6-String Drag, "From Me to Clayton" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:57:00 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Tori does "River" This just in from our Tori-reporter Stephanie Morrison: <> Cool! Tori must have been reading the JMDL and is now trying to get back on my good side! ;~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:08:25 -0400 From: Janene Otten Subject: To Terry: Macca vs. Mick (njc) Terry, don't be disheartened. Ads, printed photos & T.V. DO NOT do PAUL justice. I had the pleasure of meeting him a few months back and damn!!! he looked so good. He had a neat tan, was wearing a simple gray suit and looked at least 10 years younger than any of the photos I'd seen or even younger than when I'd seen him on stage from 100 feet back. His hair was not as gray as I thought although I'm sure he colors it sometimes. He's still a cutie and much taller than I expected! *lol* That sounds so clichi but honestly, if the seasoned New Yorker was on the same street as McCartney I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't recognize him the way he looked that day. That was my impression. Mick is also very much that way. I didn't have the pleasure of meeting him but I did see him up close at a club and I don't know of many 50 year olds that look like Mick! My mom always says "he looks so old". But Ma, he's fifty. Not so old but again, Dad's golf partners don't look half as good as Mick. They also probably don't have a bank account half as big to aid in the preservation. Just my .02. Peace, all. Janene np: Paul McCartney "From A Lover To A Friend" Janene Otten janeneo@mji.com www.RockDaily.com www.RockNews.com "I stood unwound beneath the skies And clouds unbound by laws. The cryin' rain like a trumpet sang And asked for no applause" - B. Dylan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:55:07 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc Thank you Fred. I agree with this plan 100%. The Marshall Plan has worked in averting war in the past & no you are not the only one. Fred said, >>>Here's one: Marshall Plan First ... While we're at it, this is the year 2001, it's the 21st century, we're living in the future now ... let's develop some meaningful alternative energy, get the oil monkey off our backs, then maybe we wouldn't have to use the Muslims' holy lands as our military bases to police "our" oil fields. How's that for a viable alternative? You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one ... - - -Fred ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:31:56 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: New e-mail address (sorry, joni-onlies!) I am sending this to the Joni-only list as well as the larger one, in case any Joni-onlies might wish to write to me at some point in the future. The news is: I plan for this to be the last e-mail from my current address. I have set up a new account exclusively for JMDL correspondence, and it is (all small letters): blckcrow@chorus.net I apologize in advance for the awkward spelling. The ISP only let me have 8 letters! But we'll see how this works. Take care, Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:49:54 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: Support for war effort Mary wrote: Mack: wrong, unless you're counting me as that one (and Deb Messling has already volunteered to take that spot!). No Mary, not wrong. I said I can only remember three. I didn't say there were only three and that I knew that for a fact. I was not thinking of you when I wrote anything and not thinking of anyone in particular. I was responding to a post that had already been made and I was stating my agreement with it. I have found your posts very interesting and insightful. Hope you are well. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 15:01:50 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: anne njc I would suppose that Anne is still in surgery. I am sending up a prayer for her. Hope she is doing fine. Would love to hear news as soon as possible. Cheers, Mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:39:44 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: anne njc Thanks for the reminder, Mack. Prayers for Anne right now. Kakki > I would suppose that Anne is still in surgery. I am sending up a prayer for > her. Hope she is doing fine. Would love to hear news as soon as possible. > > Cheers, > Mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 16:18:16 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc In a message dated 10/26/01 1:13:52 PM, kate@katebennett.com writes: >Thank you Fred. I agree with this plan 100%. The Marshall Plan has worked >in averting war in the past & no you are not the only one. You're welcome, Kate. If we had started out this way right from the start it would have been more effective, although it's not too late yet. Technically speaking, the original Marshall Plan didn't avert war, it was only instituted after we destroyed Germany and Japan, wreaking terror on Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki unlike any before. The idea here is to institute a Marshall Plan *first* instead of massive destruction. All we are saying is give peace a chance. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 16:45:23 EDT From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc In a message dated 10/26/01 1:21:25 PM, FredNow@aol.com writes: > >All we are saying is give peace a chance. I'd like to chime in here. I don't believe in giving peace any more of a chance than it's already gotten (remember, the Taliban had a month to turn over bin laden). Frankly, I think all this peace talk does not reflect reality. Remember the 6,000 people who were killed? We didn't ask for that, and if we don't strike back, we're saying their lives are in essence worthless. Kill our people and we'll give you lots of aid. Huh? All through the 90's, we failed to retaliate when struck and now we get this. There are a lot of people who hate us. I don't care why they hate us; they just do. Whether it's our fault or not (and I think much of it is not) is beside the point. We have to strike back when we are attacked this violently. I agree that there has been a very great deal of anti-American sentiment expressed on this site. It's gone beyond criticizing to demonizing. When you paint the US as more evil than the Taliban and Bin Laden, which I think a number of these posts have done, you demonize us. I've seen too many emails along the lines of "poor victim bin laden, protecting his culture against the evil US". That is demonizing us. My feelings on pacifism were expressed by columnist Michael Kelly: Pacifism http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26290-2001Sep26.html his response to angry readers http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61527-2001Oct3.html A number of you are going to be offended by this. I'm sorry, but I've been equally offended at all of the "evil US" stuff I've been hearing around here lately. For example, that IMO disgusting editorial by Barbara Kingsolver. When people strike us like that, we just can't roll over and die. Mary ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 16:57:16 -0400 From: "marianne marianne" Subject: [none] Back to the soup joni was making in the dream I had about her last night: I am having tecnical difficulties trying to draw these urns on the computer. Suffice it to say that the urns were shaped like long pinecones, widening at the top. There you have it. . . Joni's soup in pinecone pots. There's some dream flavor for you. Much love Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 16:58:24 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc It seems to me that the positive side of patriotism means being able to stand up for and support everyone's right to free speech and freedom of expression. Isn't that what the constitution sais?That we have the right to protest, to disagree, to express our viewpoints? I get the feeling that this extreme form of patriotism that has developed since September 11 wants to silence dissent, and any views and opinions which differ from the conventional opinion of the moment-and this narrow mindedness seems to me VERY un-American... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:11:25 EDT From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc In a message dated 10/26/01 2:00:55 PM, Relayer211@aol.com writes: >I get the feeling that this extreme form of patriotism that has developed since September 11 wants to silence dissent, and any views and opinions which differ from the >conventional opinion of the moment-and this narrow mindedness seems to >me VERY un-American... Since I expect to hear this from a lot of people, I'd just like to say that I consider this position to be very unfair. I did not speak out against anyone's right to free speech. Nor did I say that I want to silence dissent. If you think I'm narrow minded, that is your right. However, I feel compelled to stand up in defense of the right of the United States to strike back when attacked like this. I have seen numerous emails over the last several weeks pointing out the flaws of the US and its foreign policy and pleading for peace. I've been biting my tongue and not responding. If you feel blamed by what I said, let me tell you that I feel equally blamed when reading editorials such as Kingsolver's. Also, calling me un-American is a really low blow. I will defend your right to say whatever you please, but that does not mean I have to agree with it. Mary ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 16:49:11 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc Relayer wrote: > It seems to me that the positive side of patriotism means being able to > stand up for and support everyone's right to free speech and freedom of > expression. Isn't that what the constitution sais?That we have the right to > protest, to disagree, to express our viewpoints? I get the feeling that this > extreme form of patriotism that has developed since September 11 wants to > silence dissent, and any views and opinions which differ from the > conventional opinion of the moment-and this narrow mindedness seems to me > VERY un-American... I don't remember anyone telling anyone not to dissent, to air their opinions, or to not post what they thought. Except someone telling Shane to not discuss the war since we here at the JMDL had decided not to do so. Saying that I feel there is anti american sentiment here does not mean that I said that anyone here is a bad american, cannot dissent, cannot voice their opinions. I used the term in the vein of against american policy and did not mean that anyone here doesn't love their country, isn't patriotic, etc. As far as narrow mindedness, I would guess that this is subjective and subject to the opinion of the poster. I don't think Mary is un-american because she posted her opinion and most certainly not narrow minded because she did so. Whether or not I am narrow minded is up to individuals perceptions and on some issues being narrow minded is not a bad thing, in my opinion. mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:52:48 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC The Gourds (njc) In a message dated 10/26/01 1:51:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy writes re: The Gourds "I Like Drinking" <> Yep Bubba Bob! We all here been working real hard for this seasons show Tanya Harding along with Peter, Paul & Mary in "If I Had a Hammer". We filled the cement pond with ice and I bought me a new pair of Wilson "Hans Gershwiler" blades. I've been working on a new jump.......a triple toe walley combo death drop. I'll keep yall posted ;~D Jimmy aka Jilly ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:12:51 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Flags njc The 9/11 atrocity was an attack on all of humanity. I wince more than a little these days when I hear large crowds chanting "U-S-A! U-S-A!" Imagine there's no countries ... nothing to kill or die for. If people wanna wave the American flag that's cool, I guess, and it isn't cool to prevent them from doing so, but as for me I'm waving the Earth flag, designed to honor Earth Day in the 1970s, a beautiful photo of the Earth from outer space, set on a dark blue field. That's my "country," the Earth ... one world is big enough for all of us. Music, love, humanity, nature ... that's my church. We're all born, we all die, we all love, we all cry. It's time to set aside artificial differences of culture, nation, religion, it's time to embrace our common humanity, it's time for all people of Earth to come together ... ... and kill all the motherfuckin' Martians! - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:14:42 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Anne (NJC) I just got off the phone with Russ, Anne's partner, and he said the operation went VERY well! They found a mass, which was totally isolated, took it out, and could find nothing else. She was in and out in 2 hours time, which was the minimum amount of time for that type of operation. She is doing great, and I am SO damn frustrated that I can't go see her, because I am nursing an incredibly awful cough. She is due home Monday or Tuesday. I'm hoping I will be well enough to see her by the end of the week, or at the latest, the beginning of the following week. I will bring flowers from all of us at the JMDL. If you'd like to send a card: Anne Sandstrom 39 Brown St. Waltham, MA 02453 USA It would be AWESOME if we could inundate her with cards!!!!!! :-) Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:17:02 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: Anne (NJC) Thanks Ashara, you are the greatest. Mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 5:14 PM Subject: Anne (NJC) > I just got off the phone with Russ, Anne's partner, and he said the operation > went VERY well! They found a mass, which was totally isolated, took it out, > and could find nothing else. She was in and out in 2 hours time, which was > the minimum amount of time for that type of operation. She is doing great, > and I am SO damn frustrated that I can't go see her, because I am nursing an > incredibly awful cough. She is due home Monday or Tuesday. I'm hoping I will > be well enough to see her by the end of the week, or at the latest, the > beginning of the following week. I will bring flowers from all of us at the > JMDL. If you'd like to send a card: > > Anne Sandstrom > 39 Brown St. > Waltham, MA 02453 > USA > > It would be AWESOME if we could inundate her with cards!!!!!! :-) > > Hugs, > Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:20:35 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Flags njc In a message dated 10/26/01 6:14:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, FredNow@aol.com writes: << We're all born, we all die, we all love, we all cry. It's time to set aside artificial differences of culture, nation, religion, it's time to embrace our common humanity, it's time for all people of Earth to come together ... >> EXACTLY!!!! That's the message that I'm always trying to get across...Love of country is fine but infinitely more important on a deeper, more spiritual level, is a love of all people and every other creature on Planet Earth, where God is in each and every one of us...Race,religion,gender,nationality,age,class,political persuasion...these are all artificial divisions that separate instead of unite... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 11:51:35 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Bouncy Hell NJC Bob wrote: > "She has a natural bounce and curiosity which helps place her > in the above average category." > > LOL! And obviously still so true about you, Hell...and two thoughts > come to mind: > > -That teacher was very perceptive; Interesting that you say this. Fraser Smith (the teacher in question) was one of the best teachers I ever had. Considered very "alternative" at the time - he wore toe sandals, jeans and had long hair and a beard (shock, horror)! He was also best friends with NZ's most well-known contemporary poet - Sam Hunt, a personal favourite of mine. He really cared about his students, and made learning a lot of fun. One of those rare teachers (as discussed here recently) for whom teaching was a true vocation. I would put my own mother in that category too - far and away the best teacher I ever had, for three years of high school! And Kate wrote: > too smart? too cheerful? these are bad things? some teachers are weird.... Smart in this case is not smart-intelligent, but smart-cheeky, or smart-alecky! Cheerful I'm not sure about, I guess that goes along with the comment about being too chatty, I was always getting told off for talking when I should have been listening! Hell NP: Ani Difranco - Glass House ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 00:03:45 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: To Terry: Macca vs. Mick (njc) > but I did see him up close at a club and I don't know of many 50 year olds > that look like Mick! I hope not cos mick is 58! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:52:19 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: school reports njc I could never keep my mouth shut. Constantly being marked for talks too much. In the 5th grade, in Muleshoe, Tx, believe it or not, Mrs. Smith had had enough. She made me move my desk to the front where it connected with hers. Pretty humiliating. Made the honor roll the entire time sitting there. But couldn't talk to anybody. Misery. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 00:10:59 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Flags njc > EXACTLY!!!! That's the message that I'm always trying to get > across...Love of country is fine but infinitely more important on a deeper, > more spiritual level, is a love of all people and every other creature on > Planet Earth, where God is in each and every one of > us...Race,religion,gender,nationality,age,class,political persuasion...these > are all artificial divisions that separate instead of unite... I have never been patriotic/nationlistic. i think becasue of having lived in so many places due to being in an army family. I think it is outrageous that we cannot go anywhere we damn well please on this OUR planet. Borders are about separation. When we relaise we all ONE and not separate we might get what we want-peace. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:38:28 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Joni on BRAVO!!!!!!!! YAY!!!!!!!!! Well, I did a little sleuthing today, and it paid off! The Joni segment on BRAVO will air again: It is episode 104 of Arts & Minds. It airs again on Friday, November 9 at 2:30PM and Saturday, November 10, 14 hours later at 4:30AM Eastern Time. Thanks to Sharon for the "heads up" the first time around! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:13:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Tiny (Case of you) My best friend said Case of you is a breakup song. I said, "No breakup here, Mookie". I told Mookie that i think the story begins with a time freez. The woman stopps the clock "just before...", goes to a bar and paints her love on a cartoon coaster. The next 2 verses, i said, are at the bar. The cartoon coaster painter is drifting from the whiskey to her memories. Then she meets a woman. Maybe she's sitting next to her by the same counter. The 2 women know the man. One is still with him. The other belongs to his past. Maybe they're enemies but while the whiskey's beeing served they have some small chat. "Go to him", says the other woman. Mookie asks "Then what?" I said "Then the woman pays the bill and rushes home as fast as she can to her man". You know, Mookie, i had the same night once. 8 years ago, when we decided to share our lives, i got so scared, felt so much love and relief and anger, i walked to the bar, thinking i don't need you and planning to forget you while you were sleeping. You know i don't drink too much, so i drank only one Vodka, met someone who knew you once, paid the bill and rushed back home to you. Thank you for stopping by, Nuri _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:00:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Anne (NJC) - --- AsharaJM@aol.com wrote: > I just got off the phone with Russ, Anne's partner, > and he said the operation > went VERY well! They found a mass, which was totally > isolated, took it out, > and could find nothing else. She was in and out in 2 > hours time, which was > the minimum amount of time for that type of > operation. She is doing great, > Thank you so much for keeping us up-to-date, Ashara - this is great news! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:08:39 EDT From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Re: Mars njc In a message dated 10/26/01 3:14:46 PM, FredNow@aol.com writes: > >... and kill all the motherfuckin' Martians! You must have seen "Mars attacks". a funny movie. People hurry by so quickly Don't they hear the melodies In the chiming and the clicking And the laughing harmonies - - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:26:48 EDT From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Jimmy's new jump In a message dated 10/26/01 2:52:48 PM, FMY FL writes: << I've been working on a new jump.......a triple toe walley combo death drop. >> Jimmuh, please bring roller blades to the next Jonifest so you can show us this one! (as if the music and cameraderie weren't enough to get us all there) lol, walt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:26:02 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Was Pro-American/what should our response be? long njc Mary wrote: > Kill our > people and we'll give you lots of aid. Huh? We cannot forget that the aid (relative to Fred's plan and our food drops in Afghanistan) is not being given to the terrorists. In this particularly instance, it is being given to the Afghani people, the overwhelming majority of whom are not terrorists. Let's not forget that bin Laden is not even from Afghanistan! His father is Saudi and his mother is Syrian. I don't think there is even a piece of evidence to substantiate that even one of the 19 hijackers was from Afghanistan. As much as there may be more comfort in trying to draw a clearly divisible line in the sand, it just isn't that simple. The war on terrorism is one thing. The bombing of Afghanistan is just one part of it. Below is an excerpt from an article by Philip C. Wilcox, Jr. a retired Foreign Service Officer who served for three years as U.S. ambassador-at-large for counterterrorism. The article was published in the October 18th issue of the New York Review of Books. Bear in mind it was written on September 19th, so some of what he speaks of has happened already. http://www.nybooks.com/articles/14636 "Armed force, however, while politically popular, is usually an ineffective and often counterproductive weapon against terror. Before acting, the US would be wise to construct a more sophisticated strategy. This should include strengthening traditional methods of counterterrorism, while reserving the use of force as a limited option. But a new national security strategy must also include a broader foreign policy that moves away from unilateralism and toward closer engagement with other governments, and that deals not just with the symptoms but with the roots of terrorism, broadly defined. "We should also search for ways to strengthen the common bonds between Western values and Islam to combat the notion of a "clash of civilizations" and to weaken the Islamist extremist fringe that hates the West and supports terrorist actions. Such new departures in US foreign policy would require devoting far greater resources to support a more engaged, cooperative, and influential American role abroad. Redefining national security and counterterrorism in this broader sense is the most promising way to fight the war against terrorism. " Striving for a "more engaged, cooperative and influential American role abroad" has influenced the decisions the President has made since 9/11. He has spoken in support of a Palestinian state. He went to China (not the least reason for which, I'll bet, is China's radical islamist population in its most oil rich Northern province). We've dropped sanctions against Pakistan. We are engaged in overthrowing a government despite the fact that the President ran on a platform of not being into nation building. (Imagine the headache he had the night he realized that our response would require just that. And the rhetoric in the media seems to now emphasize that our objective is moreso the overthrow of the Taliban than the capture of bin Laden. Secretary Rumsfeld has commented more than once on bin Laden's potential elusiveness, perhaps in an attempt to prepare the public for the fact that we may never catch him.) And certainly there were numerous unpublicized but necessary concessions which were made to get the world coalition formed and to hold it together. On top of it all, Ramadan begins November 17th. If we continue strikes during the Muslim holy month, we risk losing the support of Islamist nations like Indonesia and the global coalition could begin to come unglued. Without the coalition, there is no war. And these are only the things which have been publicized that I've read about. **And by the way, I'm not making a judgment about any of these things one way or the other. I've tried to state them as plainly as possible and to separate my opinion where necessary. I hope it reads that way.** There has been at least one call for someone here to propose an alternative to the bombing. Truly how can anyone on this list answer that in any manner but an ideological one? There's too much we don't know. (For instance, I keep wondering about the trials for the U.S.S. Cole and the African embassy bombings. Do we have evidence that implicates bin Laden in those attacks? If so, shouldn't that be sufficient to present for the Taliban to turn him over for an international criminal trial? Protection of intelligence sources has been given as the reason for not turning over evidence relative to 9/11, but has there been any comment on presenting evidence on Africa & the Cole? Is it possible that we are holding back because we've made a deal with one of the Taliban's enemies which requires us to support the overthrow?) The war on terrorism is justified in my book. But whether the battle of Afghanistan proves to be an efficacy step in the war can only be answered by the passing of time - as more things that are now hidden become revealed and outcomes both expected and unexpected are faced. Brenda n.p.: Mica Paris - "More Love" (Whatever happened to her anyway?) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:34:57 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Radio Sonicnet RIP - NJC For those interested, MTV has shut down Sonicnet's listener customized radio stations. Bummer. http://www.latimes.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=la%2D000085113oct26 Brenda n.p.: Mica Paris - "I've Been Watching You" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:38:00 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: War etc NJC > So all in all, I hold comntradictory beliefs and am a hypocrite. Just > the same as everyone else. I also have no answers for the problems in > the world. It is easy to say, yes well, if we loved eachother and > followed such obviously correct principles as having positive regard for > ewacother then the world would be okay. Huh! If only! > > In the end we can only be honest with ourselves and grow the best we > can. > bw > colin If we were all gathered in a room together I would stand up & applaud. I admire your guts, Colin. Reading through this I saw myself reflected SO many times in your remarks. Bravo! Mark E. fellow hypocrite ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:42:46 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc I've seen too many emails > along the lines of "poor victim bin laden, protecting his culture against the > evil US". Where the hell did you see anything like this??!! We must be reading different lists. Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:55:22 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc Relayer wrote: >It seems to me that the positive side of >patriotism means being able to stand up for >and support everyone's right to free speech >and freedom of expression. I would attribute this to being a positive American rather than to the concept of "patriotism," which apparently can be defined by people in different ways. > Isn't that what the constitution sais?That we >have the right to protest, to disagree, to >express our viewpoints? It absolutely does. >I get the feeling that this extreme form of >patriotism that has developed since >September 11 wants to silence dissent, and >any views and opinions which differ from the > conventional opinion of the moment-and this >narrow mindedness seems to me > VERY un-American... While I'm sure there may be some who would wish they didn't have to hear some of the dissent, I would also bet everything that the people who you would characterize as "extreme patriots" would be the same ones fighting the hardest to defend and secure your right to dissent. I also find it strange that you characterize the overwhelming sense of unity that Americans have felt since Sept. 11th as "extreme patriotism" like it is some "movement" that people consciously decided to create sole for the purpose of making dissenters feel uncomfortable or to "silence" the views of dissenters. It troubles me that perhaps some people can't just look at American people coming together in a time of crisis as simply hearts and souls showing solidarity with each other. To me, it is really more about hearts and spirits feeling protective and supportive of each other than "nationalism" or some kind of "political" statement. My motivation to put a little flag on my car after Sept. 11th had nothing to do with feeling like I had to be in someone's face with my nationalism. People probably have varying motivations for displaying a flag, but to me (someone who by the way has never displayed an American flag for any purpose ever before in my life) it felt like the only way I could send a signal to others around me that I shared in our national grief - to me it was the only way to outward indicate empathy for the victims and each other at that point. The flag should mean many things to people because it stands for many things, most of all our collective heart. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 22:34:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: school reports njc - --- Dolphie Bush wrote: > I could never keep my mouth shut. Constantly being > marked for talks too > much. My report cards consistently said I didn't talk enough! That I should be "contributing" more in discussions. You can't win, can you? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 22:45:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: joy, joy, joy, joy NJC - --- colin wrote: > A knitting email friend just gave birth to quads! > Imagine 4 bundles of > joy at one time! They'll take a lot of running > around after-when she can > walk again...... > Four? It's a damn good thing she can knit, then. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 22:48:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc - --- "Brenda J. Walker" wrote: > I've never missed an election. My dad served in the > army only to return to his > home town in the Jim Crow south where folks were > physically blocked from the > polling place. So every time I punch the card I > feel like I'm honoring him. I've never understood the meaning of "Jim Crow". I can tell by context, but does anyone have any idea how the expression came about? Just curious and your using the expression reminded me it was one of those things I always wanted to ask, but never remember to! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 22:51:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: foolish bob NJC - --- hell wrote: > Oh boy, you're going to regret this! I've saved all > my school report cards > (or at least my mother did). My mother did that too and she gave every one of us a bagful of goodies, including these old report cards, which I still have, some time before she died. I am so grateful to her for doing that! > > Form 5 (age 15): She is sometimes a little too > chatty and cheerful in class. *Too cheerful*? Like that's a bad thing? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:16:32 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Bouncy Hell NJC These report cards are so funny (did these teachers all learn the same phrases and catchwords for these reports??) and many say much the same as mine - probably another indication of common traits among jmdlers. I don't have mine here but remember frequent comments of: "Cheerful, pleasant, cooperative Gets along well with others, verbal, sometimes likes to chat too much with her neighbors (did others have teachers who called classmates "neighbors?") Doesn't always work up to her potential (that was the dreaded one I always didn't want my mother to notice ;-) Kakki, who also was lucky to have had a couple Mr. Kratzman's along the way. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 22:59:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Bouncy Hell NJC - --- Kakki wrote: > These report cards are so funny (did these teachers > all learn the same > phrases and catchwords for these reports??) I think it's part of what they learn at teacher's college - teacher-speak. Just the way HR people use the same stupid buzzwords that sound like they mean something until you translate into plain English. > Gets along well with others, verbal, sometimes likes > to chat too much with > her neighbors (did others have teachers who called > classmates "neighbors?") Definitely. It is pretty weird when you think about it - neighbours? it's not like they lived next door to me! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:26:14 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Bouncy Hell NJC > Definitely. It is pretty weird when you think about > it - neighbours? it's not like they lived next door > to me! LOL - that's what I always used to think - "neighbors" were the people who lived next door! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 23:13:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Pro-American, JMDL? njc - --- "Sharon L. Buffington" > Placing a slice of freshly baked lemon bread on > Mack's plate... > All this talk about politics now and all I keep noticing is the (mmmmmmm) references to (mmmmmmm) lemmmmmmmmmmmon bread. Can I please, please, puleez have the recipe? I'mmmmmmm getting hungry! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 23:28:47 EDT From: TerryM2222@aol.com Subject: Re: Geriatric rockers..... NJC In a message dated 10/26/2001 11:26:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: << you are kidding right? Just saw Mr jagger on tv being interviewed and he looked awful-like a prune! >> He looked a zillion times better than I'd ever seen him- on the VH1 special. I guessed he might have had some "work" done or something. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 23:26:37 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Re: Naming the Supremes In a message dated 10/26/01 7:35:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Murphycopy@aol.com writes: << What about Cindy Birdsong? >> and Sherrie Payne? No regrets, Coyote Rick Casa Alegre Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 23:32:54 EDT From: TerryM2222@aol.com Subject: Re: To Terry: Macca vs. Mick (njc) In a message dated 10/26/2001 2:10:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JaneneO@mji.com writes: << I had the pleasure of meeting him a few months back and damn!!! he looked so good. >> Oooh, I am envious. Please tell me more! Every picture I've seen of him in the last 5 years or so has been awful. To me, he looks much older than his 59 years, though he does seem to be in good shape. I'm sure he colors his hair, as I've seen photos of him grey as well as brunette. His eyes were always his best feature, so perhaps if he darkened his eyebrows, he'd look better. I can't believe I'm obsessing over him at my age! God, was I in love with him. I've told the list more than a few times how I had the chance to meet him but chickened out. By the time I gathered up the courage to go (he was staying at a friend's apt building in NYC), he'd just left for the airport. So all I got to see was Linda's backside as she hopped into a car. Details! I need details! Terry www.addconsults.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 23:34:48 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Bouncy Hell NJC << (did these teachers all learn the same phrases and catchwords for these reports??) >> Well, at least they had to actually WRITE something. Nowadays the teachers all have pre-written comments, from which they can choose electronically, and it prints it on the card. Point & Click. Pretty obvious when you get 6 teachers all saying, "A joy to have in class"... I usually got several "doesn't work up to his potential" every year...and I would always think, "well, after all, who the hell DOES!" ;~) Bob NP: Laura Nyro "Sweet Blindness" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 00:10:25 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Golden Birthday Sorry I forgot to send this to my friends from the 'group' :) Dear Mags: I hear this is your golden birthday...24 years old on the 24th!! You DO know right...that you can eat anything you want on your golden birthday and not gain a pound. It is part of the golden rule. So enjoy all the liver and onions, lima beans, brussel sprouts, canned peas, squid, sweetbreads, and knockwurst to your heart's content. I have made a fabulous brown sugar bundt cake (heavy as a pound cake) for your birthday. Hell offered to bring the ice cream. Yael quietly sang a song she wrote about not traveling with ice cream over international borders. Lori is bringing rainbow hats and fortune cookies along with some very great news about her mother. And Kerry, well she has a thing for Miss Muffet and her tuffet so she is bringing cheese curds. Susan, also known as "The Gutz" has prepared a video for you of her riding her Moto Guzzi while singing "Black Crow". Happy Birthday Mags. Peace.......Sharon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 00:18:22 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: Anne (NJC) Dear Ashara: Thank you so much for the update on Anne. :) And thank you for taking the flowers to her and for the card suggestion. You are such a good person. Love and Peace.......Sharon...still cold in Wisconsin AsharaJM@aol.com wrote: > > I just got off the phone with Russ, Anne's partner, and he said the operation > went VERY well! They found a mass, which was totally isolated, took it out, > and could find nothing else. She was in and out in 2 hours time, which was > the minimum amount of time for that type of operation. She is doing great, > and I am SO damn frustrated that I can't go see her, because I am nursing an > incredibly awful cough. She is due home Monday or Tuesday. I'm hoping I will > be well enough to see her by the end of the week, or at the latest, the > beginning of the following week. I will bring flowers from all of us at the > JMDL. If you'd like to send a card: > > Anne Sandstrom > 39 Brown St. > Waltham, MA 02453 > USA > > It would be AWESOME if we could inundate her with cards!!!!!! :-) > > Hugs, > Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 23:51:52 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Jim Crow njc On 26 Oct 2001, at 22:48, Catherine McKay wrote: > > I've never understood the meaning of "Jim Crow". I > can tell by context, but does anyone have any idea how > the expression came about? Just curious and your > using the expression reminded me it was one of those > things I always wanted to ask, but never remember to! > Jim Crow was a character created by the first white actor to wear blackface, Thomas Rice, who is credited with being the father of the minstrel show. He took the character from a description he heard in a slave song in which the singer jumps around and dances. Rice painted his face black with burnt cork and did an exaggerated song and dance number which was meant to mimic a slave and show him as a grinning, dancing fool. His act was very successful and he toured the country with it in the mid 19th century. The Jim Crow character became a staple in minstrel shows and the foundation from which he created other characters like Sambo and Dandies. From its popularity in the minstrel shows, the term became popular as a racial slur meant to portray blacks as lazy, stupid and inferior. It was later adopted as a description for the post-Reconstruction segregation laws, social mores and intimidation practices which were in principle based on the idea that blacks were inferior to whites and thus the two groups should not mingle. C. Vann Woodwards' "The Strange Career of Jim Crow" is practically required reading if you desire to learn more about it. http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=1-0195146905-0 Hope that answer is not too long-winded! Brenda n.p.: Anita O'Day - "A Nightingale Sang in Berkeley Square" ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #520 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?