From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #512 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, October 24 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 512 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: God Angrily Clarifies 'Don't Kill' Rule (njc) [FredNow@aol.com] Today in Joni History: October 24 [les@jmdl.com] Today's Articles: October 24 [les@jmdl.com] Happy birthday!!!! - NJC [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: Toronto Tribute - Thankyou's NJC ["Leslie Ross" ] Re: For Richard Thompson fans in the US (njc) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Playing in the Band!(njc) [RoseMJoy@aol.com] October 24!!!!!!!!!! ["kerry" ] Re: A Note To Yael - not crazy! NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Golden Birthday ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] Re: October 24 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Toronto Tribute ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] Re: Subject: marxist teachers in the US? (njc) [Michael Yarbrough ] happy day! [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: ...and the Oscar Goes To... ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] NJC Re: ...and the Oscar Goes To... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Subject: marxist teachers in the US? (njc) ["Kakki" ] RE: re: Marxist teachers in the US (NJC), or, Breaking the rules ["Pitass] HPBD! ["Kate Bennett" ] Subject: David Crosby (NJC) ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Mr. Kratzman ["Wally Kairuz" ] Mr. Kratzman ( NJC) ["Pitassi, Mary" ] Re: Mr. Kratzman [Jerry Notaro ] RE: Mr. Kratzman ( NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Subject: Toronto Tribute ["Kate Bennett" ] Subject: Re: And the Oscar goes to JMDL (NJC) ["Kate Bennett" ] 10-17-01 Graham Nash Interview ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: and the Oscar goes to [JRMCo1@aol.com] NJC Re: and the Oscar goes to [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: and the Oscar goes to ["Donna J. Binkley" ] Re: October 24 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Merk54@aol.com] NJC Re: and the Oscar goes to [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: and the Oscar goes to [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: NJC Re: and the Oscar goes to ["Brenda J. Walker" ] NJC Ryan Adams "Gold" [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: marxist teachers/Gil-White speaks for himself (njc) ["Kate Bennett" <] (Fwd) Re: Marxism/Is Gil-White a Marxist? No. (NJC) ["Brenda J. Walker"] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 03:12:55 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: God Angrily Clarifies 'Don't Kill' Rule (njc) "Sue Cameron" wrote: >>Arab-American Third-Grader Returns From Recess Crying, Saying He Didn't Kill >>Anyone >>ROYAL OAK, MI Eddie Bahri, 8, a Lincoln Elementary School third-grader of >>Iraqi descent, tearfully denied accusations during morning recess Tuesday >>that he was a terrorist who killed a bunch of people. "I did not kill >>anybody," Bahri told classmate Douglas Allenby. "And my dad didn't, either, >>okay?" Also implicated in the Sept. 11 attacks was 9-year-old Rajesh >>Soonachian, a Lincoln Elementary fourth-grader of Indian descent. > >OMG! That is the elementary school I attended! How weird that you have >this in here. Metro Detroit has become a haven for people of the Arab >nations. I have feared this type of retaliation happening in my old >home town, but this is too much. Sue, this was a fictitious article from The Onion, a satirical online/offline newspaper, from their post 9/11 issue, although this story in particular could easily have happened and, somewhere, probably did. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 03:20:48 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: October 24 On October 24 in Joni Mitchell History: 1994: Tonight, Reprise Records held a "Turbulent Indigo" record release "meet & greet" at the Ruth Bloom Art Gallery in Santa Monica. The invited guests and the press could view more than 30 of Joni's paintings while hearing the new album tracks (released to the public the next day)on the gallery's sound system. - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 03:20:48 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: October 24 On October 24 these articles were published: 1980: "Shadows and Light" - BAM (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/801024b.cfm 1998: "Dylan, Mitchell keep the old crowd coming" - Minneapolis Star Tribune (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/981024mst.cfm 1998: "Legends of the fall" - Toronto Globe and Mail (Concert Preview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/981024tgam.cfm 1998: "There's no escaping the Sixties time warp" - Ottawa Citizen (Concert Preview, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/981024oc.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 644 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 09:30:09 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Happy birthday!!!! - NJC Happy birthday, Mags! I hope you have a wonderful day!!! Marian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 08:07:38 +0000 From: "Leslie Ross" Subject: Re: Toronto Tribute - Thankyou's NJC Hi Steve, Ashara, Jimmy and all >From: "Stephen Epstein" >I am still reeling a bit from the events of last weekend- wonderful, >surreal, magical- a night I will never forget! I just wanted to thank all the reporters from what was clearly a very special event. For those of us who did not attend, the quality of your recollections has been beyond criticism and hugely appreciated. bests Les (London) by the way... following the splendid example of Vancouver Steve, I indulged in a pair of ruby slippers while holidaying is Spain. I'm wearing them at the moment at work.....the engineers are appalled.....result! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 05:12:55 -0500 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Richard Gere's comments CONCERT FOR NEW YORK Madison Square Garden Oct. 20, 2001 Richard Gere's comments, from the VideoTape: "Hi New York. I just hope Clemens wins tomorrow -- that's all I care about. This is, this is, this is something I think we're all going to remember for the rest of our lives. This is the moment when we needed to be healed. And when music showed us the way. Music does what it does best, it helps us to heal. And I think in this situation right now, when, when we have the possibility of taking this energy -- this horrendous energy that we're all feeling -- and the possibility of turning it into more violence and revenge -- we can stop that. We can take that energy and turn it into something else -- we can turn it into compassion, into love, into understanding. (crowd boos) That's apparently unpopular right now, but that's alright. My friends right now are the cops, the firemen, the emergency workers. Those are the ones who don't ask if you're a good guy or a bad guy if they're going to save you. They don't ask what your religion is when they save you. They just do it because it need to be done. (crowd cheers) That's the heart that I'm talking about, that's compassion, that's the real thing. That's what we all need to aspire to. Before introducing our final New York film tonight, I just want to remind you to call the number on your screen or go to the Web address to donate to the New York Fund. And if you haven't given anything yet, now's the time to do it. Just call up and make your donation. Now if you've already given -- see if you can dig into your pocket a little more -- cause it's really needed now. In the midst of our grief for the lives that were lost on September 11th, many voices have emerged to help us understand the meaning of this tragic and historic event. Among the most poignant is that of Ric Burns whose epic series on PBS "NEW YORK: A DOCUMENTARY FILM" aired its final episode just two weeks after the tragedy. People most needed it to restore a vibrant vision of New York to our national consciousness. "NEW YORK: A DOCUMENTARY FILM" celebrates the richness and diversity of America seen through the lens of its greatest city, New York City." (End of Richard Gere's comments, film excerpt is then shown) for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- they sin by their silence ... when they should have spoken out. A. Lincoln ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 07:42:31 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: October 24 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (NJC) Brian wrote: "IT'S MAGS' BIRTHDAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssss" Oh Damn, I was trying to stay up past midnight so I could be the first to wish Mags a happy birthday. I thought I could beat the birthday fairy to the punch, but here it's Brian to do the posting. I figured you two would be tangled up like a couple of fishing worms last night ;~) Anyway, it was so good to see you both in Toronto. Mags have a happy happy birthday. No one deserves a better one than you! love, MagsnJimmy (oops I mean just Jimmy :~D ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 08:11:48 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: October 24th!! Happy Birthday Mags!!!!!!!! Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 08:28:22 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: For Richard Thompson fans in the US (njc) Hi Sherelle, Just in case you're racking your brain, Thompson performed "Woodstock" & "Black Crow" at Joni's tribute. I thought both were spellbinding, and kudos for him doing Woodstock when Stone Temple Pilots pulled out towards the end. I also saw him live this year in a very intimate setting, and was in awe of his guitar prowess and his quick wit and fan rapport. I can't believe after all his work that he's not appreciated on a higher level. Oh well, I guess Joni sorta falls in the same category. Anyway, if you want to pick up one of his records, Mock Tudor is a great one. Bob NP: John Hiatt, "The Tiki Bar Is Open" (speaking of underappreciated...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 08:39:31 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Playing in the Band!(njc) In a message dated 10/23/01 6:24:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: > Got a gig playing keyboards with a Grateful Dead cover band, Cosmic Charlie. > We'll be doing three shows in North Carolina this weekend. Oh, how wonderful for you Victor! Maybe you'll play Box of Rain for me? Rose in NJ remembering that afternoon on Ashara's deck :0) rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 07:50:00 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: October 24!!!!!!!!!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY MAGS!!!!!!!!!! (our wonderful new H.L.!) Hope you have a great day!! Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 09:11:58 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: A Note To Yael - not crazy! NJC <> Yep, and they smell plenty! ;~) Didn't mean to come off as crabby...and believe me, I was as ready as Yael to take the Tori plunge as well after "Under The Pink" which is a brilliant record from start to finish. The lyrics, though somewhat cryptic, are still "breakable" code, and the melodies and song structures remain accessible. Boys For Pele was a disastrous mess, you didn't mention that one so I assume you agree. Choirgirl was an improvement (Playboy Mommy being the best of the lot)and got her more comfortable with recording with a full band, and Venus was aptly named...except for "Concertina", all these songs are too "spacy", inaccessible & forgettable. And believe me, I've tried to like these records, listened to them again & again, and nothing sticks. By the same token, I can look at the song titles of most of Earthquakes & Pink and hear the songs in my head. Can't do that with the later work. And now her words are so cryptic they've become nonsensical. "Daddy, I killed my monkey..."? Anyway, she set the bar very high for herself with Earthquakes & Pink. She's had a hard time reaching that pinnacle since. I would say it's why she turned to a covers project, for some inspiration in terms of her songwriting. Maybe she should title her next one "Y Kant Tori Write?" ;~) Believe me, if I didn't think she had the goods, I never would have said anything in the first place. But, that having been said, I TOTALLY understand that someone can become totally spellbound by the "sound" of an artist and lose their objectivity. I do it all the time. So Yael, you're really not crazy, and you only live once. Go for it, chick! Bob NP: Jay Farrar, "Feed Kill Chain" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 08:26:37 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Golden Birthday Dear Mags: I hear this is your golden birthday...24 years old on the 24th!! You DO know right...that you can eat anything you want on your golden birthday and not gain a pound. It is part of the golden rule. So enjoy all the liver and onions, lima beans, brussel sprouts, canned peas, squid, sweetbreads, and knockwurst to your heart's content. I have made a fabulous brown sugar bundt cake (heavy as a pound cake) for your birthday. Hell offered to bring the ice cream. Yael quietly sang a song she wrote about not traveling with ice cream over international borders. Lori is bringing rainbow hats and fortune cookies along with some very great news about her mother. And Kerry, well she has a thing for Miss Muffet and her tuffet so she is bringing cheese curds. Susan, also known as "The Gutz" has prepared a video for you of her riding her Moto Guzzi while singing "Black Crow". Happy Birthday Mags. Peace.......Sharon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 06:38:36 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: October 24 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > IT'S MAGS' BIRTHDAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssss > > This is indeed cause for rejoicing & general dancing in the streets. HAPPY BIRTHDAY, MAGS!!!! Hope it's the best ever! xoxox Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 06:45:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Family stuff (NJC) I would rather take the time to write personal notes but am swamped with work ... Thank you to everyone who has said a prayer and sent positive thoughts and vibes for "Queen" Ida -- all of your wonderful energies must be working! She is breathing on her own and although she still has some sort of blood infection, the nurse says Mom is very strong and one of my cousins informed me that Mom is now pissed off! because her wrists are strapped down. : ) Intubation should cease today, which will hopefully mean she will be free to move her arms again. Perhaps someone can sneak an accordion into the ICU ... Thanks again, and love to all of you, Lori in MD ~ Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 08:56:37 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: Toronto Tribute Dear Kakki: From the stories you have shared about your Mama...I am not one bit surprised she remembered the Toronto Event! If Joni did not mention Coco...I have told Coco stories. :) Love and Peace....Sharon Kakki wrote: > > What a sweet report, Stephen! I'm just so happy for all of you who could be > at such an incredible event! Maybe it's good I didn't go - I probably would > have been loudly hyperventilating when she took to the piano and started up > the bit of Paprika Plains! > > I was surprised that my mother had remembered the event was coming up and > called me for a full report on Saturday. She started choking up when I told > her the story of Mr. Kratzman. > > It sounds like you all had such a stunning time. These Joni events always > seem to be unfailingly incredible and fantastic for the jmdlers. > > Oh, and did she say anything about Coco?? ;-) > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 09:08:44 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: Family stuff (NJC) Dear Lori: I am glad your Mother is doing better. It is heartening to know she is pissed! Sharon....playing "Say I Do" on her accordion for "Queen" Ida. "Lori R. Fye" wrote: > > I would rather take the time to write personal notes but am swamped with > work ... Thank you to everyone who has said a prayer and sent positive > thoughts and vibes for "Queen" Ida -- all of your wonderful energies must > be working! She is breathing on her own and although she still has some > sort of blood infection, the nurse says Mom is very strong and one of my > cousins informed me that Mom is now pissed off! because her wrists are > strapped down. : ) > > Intubation should cease today, which will hopefully mean she will be free > to move her arms again. Perhaps someone can sneak an accordion into the > ICU ... > > Thanks again, and love to all of you, > > Lori > in MD > > ~ > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. > http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:06:45 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: Joni and Incredible String Band Jacky Gertus@aol.com quoted from Mojo >Admittedly, Robin tripped over the power cable at Big Sur >Festival and the entire show ground to a halt, but they'd >ended up afterwards in a hot spring in the rocks with >Joni Mitchell and David Crosby, all of them "pink as shrimp" >and singing Swing Low Sweet Chariot." Thanks for this Jacky - I'm sure I remember seeing some film footage of Crosby in a hot tub looking totally off his bing bong, surrounded by several young girls - or did I dream this - maybe it was a clip from the Big Sur film. Last year I drove up Highway 1 and spent a night at the Big Sur Hotel - staying in the tiniest single room I've ever slept in - in a log cabin in amongst the tallest trees. I went down the road a bit for something to eat and ended up in a biker's roadside cafe, full of ZZ Top look-alikes - I felt a bit out of place as I'd long since cut my hair!! I found this in a Rolling Stone review of the 1969 Big Sur Festival - see http://www.suitelorraine.com/suitelorraine/Pages/rncsny69.html "The Incredible String Band followed [Joan Baez], appearing in a vast assembly of instruments, singing their tales of troubadours, one of them about a pig, dedicated to "the Hog Farm people" who've done alot for us and for the country." and later "Joni Mitchell sat at the piano and offered a song she said she had written about Woodstock: "We are stardust, we are golden, and we've got to get ourselves back to the garden". Did anyone on the list go to that festival? According to http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html she only played one UK gig supporting the ISB in 1967 at The Speakeasy in London - and she also played at The Marquee in Soho on that tour (how I wish I'd known about it then!). At the time I was living in Oxford and vividly remember seeing Robin Williamson and Mike Heron of the ISB at the Town Hall. Still love their early material, particularly 'October Song' from their first album (one of Dylan's favourites, too, I see in this Dirty Linen article http://www.futuris.net/linen/feature/32isb.html and 'The First Girl I Loved' from their second album '5,000 Spirits or the Layers of the Onion'. > Changing the subject, I went to the annual rally of the BMG Federation on > Sunday - the most old-fashioned gathering of amateur musicians you could > find. My friend and I won the duet category so are feeling chuffed especially > as one of the judges, and later performers, was Simon Mayor. Very cool! Many congratulations, Jacky - Simon Mayor is an internationally renowned player - so very cool indeed!! I imagine you've visited his www.mandolin.co.uk website. Have you seen any of his instructional videos? Would you recommend? very best PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 07:35:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: Re: Subject: marxist teachers in the US? (njc) Kakki wrote: > To those who > will challenge me about > Marxist teachers gaining hold in the 60s I have two > prominent names for you: > Herbert Marcuse and Angela Davis As both teachers and intellectuals, Marcuse and Davis were quite influential in certain circles in the 60s, including significant portions of academia. But that was then and this is now. Understatement alert: the 60s were a pretty unusual time of great political and cultural upheaval. While some significant changes were set in motion during that period, I think it's overstating the case to say that Marxist doctrine is dominant or even significantly influential in the postsecondary education of most Americans. The huge numbers of business majors churned out by American colleges and universities is alone enough to refute that fact. Two relevant points to shed light. First, the well-documented disconnect between American academia's two functions (research and writing on the one hand, teaching on the other) means that the most famous of America's Marxist and otherwise leftist academics do not necessarily have a lot of direct classroom contact with undergraduates. The longstanding American obsession with "practical" education (cf. Tocqueville) means that U.S. postsecondary education today is by and large better characterized as training. The inculcation of skills--whether lower- or higher-order--doesn't allow much room for the coincident inculcation of ideology. (Though a Marxist might argue that such a focus is inherently an inculcation of capitalist ideology--division and alienation of labor, etc.) Second and more importantly, Marx's body of work is large and full of several distinct core principles that do not necessarily on their own link to a communist or (especially) a Stalinist ideology. For example, the idea that "consciousness" (ideas, opinions, perspectives) naturally and necessarily follows from "material conditions" (economic and political structure) has evolved into a school of literary criticism that in no way implies a necessary *critique* of any *particular* material conditions (e.g. the American status quo). Other Marxist ideas--that capitalism as a system, dependent on growth and profits, must inexorably expand--have been borne out by history, and it would be difficult to find even neoclassical economists who would disagree. My personal opinion is that Marx did a better job than anyone in history of diagnosing the source and nature of capitalism's problems--he just did a pretty shitty job of prescribing a solution, and left plenty of loopholes for megalomaniacs like Stalin to exploit. The point? That even self-identified Marxist academics display a wide variety of opinions on many topics. Not only does this diversity undercut fears of some monolithic influence on the academic system, it also means that an anti-American stance emphatically does *not* naturally follow from their particular Marxist perspective. Whew. - --Michael NP: Rufus Wainwright, _Poses_ ===== ___________________________________________________________________________ "[Naipaul] is devoutly read wherever literacy in English prevails, as well as in parts of America." - --Gavin McNett, "The Black Sheep." http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2001/10/14/naipaul/index.html Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 10:24:10 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: October 24 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Happy Birthday Mags!!! Hope your day is filled with love and laughter. Love Donna - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Brian Gross Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 11:30 PM To: Joni@smoe.org Cc: pholden@iprimus.ca Subject: October 24 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT'S MAGS' BIRTHDAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssss She is the love of my life and today I would like her to know just how special she is to me and to all of us. Happy Birthday Sweetie love, Brei xoxox ===== After twenty-three years you'd think I could find A way to let you know somehow That I want to see your smiling face Forty-five years from now. --Stan Rogers Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:32:46 -0400 From: Janene Otten Subject: ...and the Oscar Goes To... hey, how about Joan Allen? Does anyone like Joan Allen? She's wonderful. J np: Son House - Low Down Dirty Dog Blues Janene Otten janeneo@mji.com www.RockDaily.com www.RockNews.com "I stood unwound beneath the skies And clouds unbound by laws. The cryin' rain like a trumpet sang And asked for no applause" - B. Dylan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:35:13 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: happy day! Happy Birthday Mags!!!! That means that two of my favorite people were born on the same day - you and Russ! And, for the Joni content, the biography is an interesting read. It fills in a bunch of details, but, of course, leads me to wonder about questions I never considered before. The thing I've found most surprising so far is what Joni said she would say if she were to do the introducion that Joan Baez asked her to during the Rolling Thunder Review. Frankly, I don't know what to make of it. She uses a word I never thought would escape her lips - and the one word I've never used. (it starts with 'n') Seeing as how I'm about to disappear for a week or so, I hope this doesn't start an interesting discussion on Joni and racial relations. (wait for me! wait for me! well, ok, you don't have to...) Anyway, the book touches on this subject a bit, especially Joni's dressing up as "Art Nouveau" on the cover of DJRD, and even in the line "while Muslims stick up Washington." It also talks about how she pissed off Furry Lewis, and the fact that she was frowned upon by some for being a "white chick" who collaborated with Mingus. Frankly, I've always been uncomfortable with Joni's dressing in blackface. But then again, I have a certain narrow prejudice myself that unless you grew up in a neighborhood in racial turmoil you couldn't truly understand the complexities of racial relations. I realize I'm wrong about that, but I guess it gives me the attitude of "well, I didn't have a lot of what others seemed to have, growing up, but I did have the first hand experience of cultural clashes and attempts to resolve them from a very early age". Anyway, the book is quite interesting. And there are references to us, both directly and indirectly, including general quotes from discussions we've had. (Remember the Urge for Going thread of a couple of years ago?) So, I guess we're famous... lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 10:44:13 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: ...and the Oscar Goes To... Joan Allen gets my vote! Janene Otten wrote: > > hey, how about Joan Allen? Does anyone like Joan Allen? She's wonderful. > J > > np: Son House - Low Down Dirty Dog Blues > > Janene Otten > janeneo@mji.com > www.RockDaily.com > www.RockNews.com > "I stood unwound beneath the skies > And clouds unbound by laws. > The cryin' rain like a trumpet sang > And asked for no applause" - B. Dylan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:15:50 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: Re: Happy birthday, Mags! (NJC) Dear Mags, Happy birthday! Even if you read this one day later. Tim Spong Dover, Del. U.S.A. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:50:29 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: ...and the Oscar Goes To... <> She was wonderful in Pleasantville, a great little sleeper of a film. When Bill Macy tries to put his foot down and tell her that when he comes home, she'll have his meatloaf ready for him, she says, simply: "No dear...I won't" In such a great way...not mean or even disrespectful, but in such a way that indicates that her eyes have been opened to such a broader spectrum. With that one line she captures the essence and beauty of this film. Not to mention Reese Witherspoon in argyle sweaters! Hubba Hubba! ;~) Bob NP: Ryan Adams, "Sweet Black Magic" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 09:37:01 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Subject: marxist teachers in the US? (njc) Michael wrote: > But that was then and this is now. But that set the stage for a lot of what is now. I don't have time now to respond to all you wrote but will try to maybe later. In general, and I know this may still be unclear, I was thinking that more Marxist-styled ideology subtly influences many schools and colleges. Just because someone is studying business and getting an MBA does not necessarily mean that, ideologically, that they are a capitalist. And yes, there are many "variations" if you will, of Marxism. I found something suprising last night when I went to the links on Professor Gil-White that Kate provided. On his website where he has his letters on our current war, he has a link to another article titled "The Road Taken." When you link to that article you are taken to a website titled "Common Dreams - Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community." Go to the link for "Community" and read about many of the organizations that affiliate with the Progressives and their philosophy. There are links there that are mainstream in the U.S. and those are not the ones I wish to point out. There are many other links of organizations which take the position of being "anti-corporate" and working toward "global" solutions and so on. To me, a lot of Progressive ideology looks like Marxism reconstituted in a pretty, new age sensitive package - a kind of enlightened neo-communism with strong "One World" overtones. It sounds really wonderful, but scratch the surface of it a little deeper and you may have some other questions. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 10:29:07 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Richard Gere's comments NJC Thank you for posting this. All of the sound bytes pull from the middle of his comments, so it's nice to see the whole thing. Brenda On 24 Oct 2001, at 5:12, simon@icu.com wrote: > CONCERT FOR NEW YORK > Madison Square Garden > Oct. 20, 2001 > > Richard Gere's comments, from the VideoTape: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:32:49 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: Mr. Kratzman Stephen Epstein wrote: "Perhaps the crowning glory of the evening was having Mr. Kratzman arrive onstage. Big hugs between the two of them. He is a gentleman, articulate, loving and kind and far younger looking that I thought was possible! Joni was in tears, as was most of the audience. It was a loving tribute from him, to her!: Stephen, thanks so much for posting your wonderful report, but especially, for letting us feel as though we were in the front row of the audience for this special reunion. I have been touched over the years by the consistency with which Joni has mentioned Mr. Kratzman, who, of course, "taught [her] to love words." However, I had assumed that poor Mr. Kratzman was likely long departed from this world. Am so glad that isn't the case, and that former student and teacher had the chance to publicly demonstrate their appreciation and affection for one another. I work with teachers professionally, and can only imagine what it would have been like to have the chance to encourage and influence a student like the young Joan Anderson, who had so much to offer, although her gifts, perhaps, were not visible to just anyone. Arthur Kratzman's statement, "if you can paint with a brush, you can paint with words," literally changed Joni's life. . .and quite possibly, ours in the process. Talk about a "teachable moment"! So go hug a teacher today. And that means YOU, anyone who knows Sue Cameron! ;-) . Thanks again, Stephen. Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:42:11 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: RE: re: Marxist teachers in the US (NJC), or, Breaking the rules Kate wrote, in response to Kakki: "LOL. Good one, glad to see the smilie [. . . ]" To which I add a spirited: ME, TOO! So kick me off the list, Les! ;-) Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 10:34:24 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: HPBD! Happy Happy Happy Happy Birthday Dear Mags! I hope you have a wonderful day!!!!!!!!! ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:16:07 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: David Crosby (NJC) Rick, I am sure that was Croz you saw at LAX. First, no one looks like him & second he had a gig w/ CPR the next day in Maui on Oct 13th. David is very very appreciative of his fans & usually spends time after each show meeting & greeting. He is sometimes hard to connect with when he is playing with CSN if they have to get going to another gig right after the show, but its easier when he is out with CPR. I am sure he will sign your book for you as long as he knows you are a fan & not one of those autograph people who turn around & sell stuff. I imagine it would be lots more fun for you getting him to sign your book in person. I will let you know of any upcoming CPR gigs. I missed the one in Solvang but am hoping hoping hoping that they will do another one in SB. Rick wrote >>>So, I was telling Jimmy I would never post this -- but look what I am doing. No one will believe this and I don't blame you -- it's just too damn weird. Imagine this. I was standing in the line for first class passengers (thank God for frequent flyer points -- especially these days of gruesome, long lines) at LAX Thursday morning, October 12, ready to leave for Toronto. It was about 9AM. When I first walked in the door, which is just in front of the first class line, I thought I saw David Crosby at the ticket counter. Well, it was him. I was about the fifteenth person in line. He had a large group with him, including someone who seemed to be a guard, or manager, or something. The latter was making apologies for how long they were at the counter for those of us waiting in line. We were moving, thanks to United's opening of another station. I kept getting closer and closer -- more and more excited to be that close to someone I admired. Here's the killer. I had his autobiography (in hardcover) in my carry-on. I was waiting for Karen's book to arrive, thinking I would take it to Toronto for the whole Joni experience -- get it? Well, it didn't, so I took David's thinking it was at least SJC. I've had his book for years, but never read it. So, I calmly pulled out a pen, hoping to ask him to sign my book -- if only I got close enough. Line moving slowly. His entourage was having some problems so, to my delight, they remained at the counter as I moved closer and closer. Security is tight and there is no way I can make it through the plastic ropes to go up to him -- especially risking being thought a stalker. My dream is to get to the counter just next to him and say, "Hey David, canya sign my book?" I thought he would be as blown away as I was. Didn't happen. His arrangements were made and I was still four people behind. As God is my witness, this is the truth. Maybe our Kate can someday verify he was in the airport that same day. At least Jimmy can testify that I did have the book. I read it to him often in our *swanky* Toronto apartment. By the way, Kate - you gotta get this signed for me!<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:38:21 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Mr. Kratzman you can hug ME too!!!! i taught my first class when i was 15 and i haven't stopped ever since. it's been 25 years. wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Pitassi, Mary Enviado el: Miircoles, 24 de Octubre de 2001 02:33 p.m. Para: joni@smoe.org; septstein@agmont.com CC: scam1@freeway.net Asunto: Mr. Kratzman So go hug a teacher today. And that means YOU, anyone who knows Sue Cameron! ;-) . Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:40:21 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: Mr. Kratzman ( NJC) Wally! How could I ever not hug *you*?! TWO big hugs for that tireless teacher and BF without peer, Wally the K!!! ;-) Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:44:03 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Mr. Kratzman I used to use Joni's lyrics when I taught Jr. High English. And once used the entire Tommy work for an extended study, music and lyrics. Years later I still get comments from grown men and women how much it meant to them and how much more they understood them because of it. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:46:10 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Mr. Kratzman ( NJC) aw..... shucks!!!!! [but how i love jmdl hugs......] wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: Pitassi, Mary [mailto:PitassiM@WEAC.org] Enviado el: Miircoles, 24 de Octubre de 2001 03:40 p.m. Para: wallykai@fibertel.com.ar; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Mr. Kratzman ( NJC) Wally! How could I ever not hug *you*?! TWO big hugs for that tireless teacher and BF without peer, Wally the K!!! ;-) Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:26:22 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Toronto Tribute Stephen, thanks for the wonderful review of this evening. So, now that she has publically shared some of what she told you privately with Kakki, IT IS TIME TO SPILL THE BEANS! ;~} >>>Talk about repetism! Many of the things she and Kakki and I talked about a few weeks ago were chatted about- break-up w/Donald, the events of Sept 11th and how she was affected, painting......<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:26:27 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Re: And the Oscar goes to JMDL (NJC) I agree with Lisa Kudrow playing Joni & Joni playing Georgia O'Keefe. How about the movie title Lady of the Canyon? ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:10:01 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: and the Oscar goes to Has someone else already proposed this? I suggest our own Claudia should play Joni. Now the REAL question is - who should play Bob Muller (since he IS in the bio after all...) lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:08:43 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: 10-17-01 Graham Nash Interview Here is a recent interview with Nash (once Joni's boyfriend so there is the Joni content)...he talks about the current world situation, music (vinyl records, some great CSN, Everly Bros, & Grateful Dead stories) as well as his digital photograpy. http://www.themusic.com/ ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:35:09 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: and the Oscar goes to Anne writes: > Has someone else already proposed this? > > I suggest our own Claudia should play Joni. > > Now the REAL question is - who should play Bob Muller (since he IS in the bio after all...) Great casting call! Claudia should play Joni for sure. As to who plays Bob Muller...Richard Gere, of course. ;-) - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:47:19 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: and the Oscar goes to <> But he'd probably just say something terribly inappropriate...well, I guess that DOES make him a perfect choice! LOL! Bob NP: Ryan Adams, "Goodnight Hollywood Blvd." (3rd time 'round today) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:51:30 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: and the Oscar goes to Now here's something i agree on! Claudia should definitely play Joni. But Richard Gere's not cute enought to play Bob, he's also a tad shallow, our Bob is much more down to earth. But then i don't have a better suggestion either. But that's my take on the subject. Bob should play Bob. db - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of JRMCo1@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 2:35 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: and the Oscar goes to Anne writes: > Has someone else already proposed this? > > I suggest our own Claudia should play Joni. > > Now the REAL question is - who should play Bob Muller (since he IS in the bio after all...) Great casting call! Claudia should play Joni for sure. As to who plays Bob Muller...Richard Gere, of course. ;-) - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:12:57 EDT From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Re: October 24 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mags, Happy Birthday, Mags!!! Have a great day! Talk to you soon, Jack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:14:19 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: and the Oscar goes to <> Well I heard Muller does have a fondness for gerbels :~) Jimmy NP: Rough Trade "Highshcool Confidential" (finally found it in Toronto) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:19:03 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: and the Oscar goes to In a message dated 10/24/01 4:03:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, djb@binkleybarfield.com writes: > But > Richard Gere's not cute enought to play Bob, he's also a tad shallow, our > Bob is much more down to earth. Well, to each his own, but Gere is pleasing to my eyes. rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:21:45 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: NJC Re: and the Oscar goes to On 24 Oct 2001, at 15:47, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > NP: Ryan Adams, "Goodnight Hollywood Blvd." (3rd time 'round today) > It's really something isn't it? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:30:15 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Mr. Kratzman A couple of things that I remember from the conversation between Joni and Mr. Kratzman (who did look quite good for his age). He said that he remembered Joni always sat in the back of the class to the left. She picked people from the class that she wanted to sit around her. They even mentioned names of a classmate or two. Joni said she knew Mr. Kratzman was cool when he said "you can chew gum in class, as long as you bring enough for everyone". I could be wrong on this, but I believe she also said that Mr. Kratzman didn't like the text books they were using in the class and told everyone to disgard them. Since he was from Australia, he was going to teach the class about that! (Did I dream that last part? Help!!! Rick, Janine, Ashara, Pearl, Mags, Brian, J.J., Polifka, Stephen, someone??? Jimmy, who would hug Suze or Wally anytime! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:10:21 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Common Dreams site (was marxist teachers in the US?) (njc) Kakki which orgs are you referring to in your post? There are so many, it was hard for me to guess which ones you felt were questionable... If anyone else is interested, here is the link http://www.commondreams.org/community.htm >>>There are many other links of organizations which take the position of being "anti-corporate" and working toward "global" solutions and so on. To me, a lot of Progressive ideology looks like Marxism reconstituted in a pretty, new age sensitive package - a kind of enlightened neo-communism with strong "One World" overtones. It sounds really wonderful, but scratch the surface of it a little deeper and you may have some other questions. Kakki<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:32:47 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: marxist teachers/Gil-White speaks for himself (njc) On 24 Oct 2001, at 9:37, Kakki wrote: > > I found something suprising last night when I went to the links on Professor > Gil-White that Kate provided. On his website where he has his letters on our > current war, he has a link to another article titled "The Road Taken." ....There > are many other links of organizations which take the position of being > "anti-corporate" and working toward "global" solutions and so on. To me, > a lot of Progressive ideology looks like Marxism reconstituted in a pretty, new > age sensitive package - a kind of enlightened neo-communism with strong > "One World" overtones. It sounds really wonderful, but scratch the surface of it > a little deeper and you may have some other questions. Rather than try to speculate or imply as to what Professor Gil-White's position is, I decided to ask him. Last night, I sent him an email asking him if he is a Marxist. He answered this morning. He is not a Marxist. I will forward the email separately. Brenda ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:20:20 -0400 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Re: and the Oscar goes to > I suggest our own Claudia should play Joni. > I like that idea. I can't think of anyone more suited. I would also like to suggest that the part of Bob be played by Richard Dryfuss, of "Goodbye Girl" days. He's got Charisma and when he says...Hey Kid or How's it goin' kid, you know it comes straight from his heart!! It's so good to be back. love, jody ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:41:45 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Ryan Adams "Gold" <> Yes indeed..it's something ELSE! Reminds me a lot of some of The Band's recordings, in terms of it's genuineness and musicality. Ryan obviously pulls from a lot of sources, and he really mixes things up. This one will go down as a classic. That Les may not say much, but what he DOES say is worth hearing! ;~) Bob NP: Elvis Costello w/Brian Eno, "My Dark Life" (giving Ryan a well-deserved rest!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:23:43 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: marxist teachers/Gil-White speaks for himself (njc) LOL Brenda, how down to earth you are! >>>Rather than try to speculate or imply as to what Professor Gil-White's position is, I decided to ask him.<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:50:15 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: (Fwd) Re: Marxism/Is Gil-White a Marxist? No. (NJC) Here is the response which I received from Professor Francisco Gil-White. (I've made a couple of insubstantial edits in terms of what I wrote, but all of his responses are intact. I'm happy to forward the unedited email to anyone who wants it.) I wrote to him because I was very disturbed by unsupported generalizations made about the U.S. school system. It certainly did not reflect my experience growing up in the late 70's in public schools and attending college in the 80's - -- not that I, on the other hand, expect that everyone had the same experience as me or that my experience is indicative of what the system is in a broad sense. I firmly believe that drawing such conclusions and making these claims without some type of supporting evidence does a grave disservice to the individuals who sacrifice to serve as educators in our country and to people outside of our country who will develop perhaps a distorted picture of who we are as a nation. Brenda - ------- Forwarded message follows ------- Date sent: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:48:05 -0400 To: "Brenda J. Walker" From: Francisco Gil-White Subject: Re: Marxism Thanks for your letter. Comments below. (Incidentally, I have updated the original letter into an essay that you can find at: http://www.psych.upenn.edu/~fjgil/usfpolicy.html At 09:40 PM 10/23/2001 -0700, you wrote: >Dear Mr. Gil-White: > >I am sure that your letter to Nightline has become the topic of much debate >among many people, not only at the water cooler but also at the keyboard. > >So I am certain that you must be swimming in a significant increase of email >due to the letter's circulation on the internet. You are quite right! But it has been fun. > >Are you a Marxist? Ha ha. Nope. I am a libertarian. I LOVE the free market. Libertarians are very suspicious and skeptical of the concentration of power in government hands. Marxists LOVE the concentration of power in government hands. Since I am criticizing abuses of power and secrecy in the executive branch, it is unclear why one should infer that I am a Marxist. Nothing in my email rails against the free-market. On the contrary. The US government distorted international markets by using the US military as a bargaining tool for rent-seeking American multinationals. That was at the beginning of my complaints (the overthrow of Mossadeq and the installment of the Shah, who gave us all of the Iranian oil). ___________________________________________________ Office Phone: (215) 573-2622 Cell: 267-971-3070 Fax: 215-898-7301 fjgil@psych.upenn.edu http://www.psych.upenn.edu/~fjgil/ Assistant Professor of Psychology University of Pennsylvania 3815 Walnut Street, Suite 400 Philadelphia PA 19104-6196 Fellow Solomon Asch Center for Study of Ethnopolitical Conflict MEXICO home: (52-5) 259-2461 or 8328 <> Helen Keller ____________________________________________________ - ------- End of forwarded message ------- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #512 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?