From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #510 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, October 23 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 510 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- on a lighter note. . . (SortaJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: NJC Gere: treuth or gossip and innuendo? [Vince Lavieri ] Joni and Incredible String Band [Gertus@aol.com] Playing in the Band!(njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: And the Oscar goes to JMDL [Susan Guzzi ] Re: Buddhists & Christians NJC ["Brenda J. Walker" ] patsy cline njc ["Dolphie Bush" ] RE: Family stuff (NJC) ["Pitassi, Mary" ] Steve's concert database (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] The 4th Estate - NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Subject: Family stuff (NJC) ["Kate Bennett" ] Subject: marxist teachers in the US? (njc) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: "Smut" on the list! A suggestion (NJC) ["Sue Cameron" ] Re: The 4th Estate - NJC ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] Re: And the Oscar goes to JMDL ["hell" ] Re: Subject: marxist teachers in the US? (njc) ["Kakki" ] Re: Subject: marxist teachers in the US? (njc) [Catherine McKay ] RE: the 4th estate (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Corporate-speak NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Subject: marxist teachers in the US? (njc) ["Kakki" ] Re: Subject: marxist teachers in the US? (njc) [Catherine McKay ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:17:20 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: on a lighter note. . . (SortaJC) There was talk here and there on the list over the past couple of months about John Kelly performing a new salute to Joni "Shiny Hot Nights" in NYC in October. Has that happened yet? Did anyone from the list see his performance? Thanks, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:18:24 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: NJC Gere: treuth or gossip and innuendo? Richard Stevens wrote: > > > Jesus said turn the other cheek, not let your enemies run you through with > their sword, buddhists support passive resistance. Wrong. He said put away your sword. Read your Bible. He allowed nails to be nailed through his body and his body to be pierced with a spear. And suggest how each of the 11 disciples (other than Judas) died - maybe those who know Jesus learned something from Jesus. > > > The first thing muslim extrmists would do if the took over the world would > be to line up liberal civil liberties groups, Buddhists and left wing > chritian groups who support tolerance of muslim atrocities and shoot them... > > And would the Islamic extremists be joined by the Christian religious right like Farwell, Pat Robertson, etc. in eliminating their enemies? What about the Christian militias in Idaho and in Michigan, such as Timothy McVeigh belonged to? What did these people do? What did McVeigh do? Maybe it has nothing to do with religion but a lot to do with evil. And those who return evil for evil, they are not blessed by Jesus, who blesses indeed peacemakers, for peacemakers are the children of God. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:18:01 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Jesus (njc) > Meanwhile, Jesus was whatever Jesus was and ended up dead. Jesus Was Way Cool (hall-xefos) Jesus was way cool Everybody liked Jesus Everybody wanted to hang out with him Anything he wanted to do, he did He turned water into wine, And if he had wanted to, He could have turned wheat into marijuana, Sugar into cocaine, Or vitamin pills into amphetamines He walked on the water and swam on the land He would tell these stories and people would listen He was really cool If you were blind, or lame, You just went up to Jesus* And he would put his hands on you and you would be healed That's so cool He could have played guitar better than Hendrix He could have told the future He could have baked the most delicious cake in the world He could have scored more goals than Wayne Gretsky He could have danced better than Barishnikof Jesus could have been funnier than any comedian you can think of Jesus told people to eat his body and drink his blood That's so cool Jesus was so cool But then some people got jealous of how cool he was, So they killed him But then he rose from the dead! He rose from the dead, Danced around and went up to heaven I mean, that's so cool Jesus was way cool No wonder there are so many Christians Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:57:25 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Joni and Incredible String Band Hi Paul, I seem to remember you asking recently for information about Joni touring with ICB. I came across this paragraph in an article about the ICB in Mojo Aug 2000 issue:- "In fact, the String Band and the ridiculousness of rock culture were about to collide in the most spectacular fashion. Before their manager, Joe Boyd, booked them to play "a little up-state folk festival" in the New York area, they'd had a degree of success in the States. Admittedly, Robin tripped over the power cable at Big Sur Festival and the entire show ground to a halt, but they'd ended up afterwards in a hot spring in the rocks with Joni Mitchell and David Crosby, all of them "pink as shrimp" and singing Swing Low Sweet Chariot." Changing the subject, I went to the annual rally of the BMG Federation on Sunday - the most old-fashioned gathering of amateur musicians you could find. My friend and I won the duet category so are feeling chuffed especially as one of the judges, and later performers, was Simon Mayor. Very cool! Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:21:19 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Playing in the Band!(njc) Got a gig playing keyboards with a Grateful Dead cover band, Cosmic Charlie. We'll be doing three shows in North Carolina this weekend. It's kind of a spur of the moment thing but I think it will be alot of fun and a wonderful opportunity, and I can honestly use the work. I don't know if anyone lives in these areas but the dates are listed below. You can also visit their website, http://www.cosmiccharlie.net for more information. So far I've just met one of the guitarists but they sound like a really interesting band. Victor Thursday, Oct 25 Marzz Theater, Wilmington NC Friday, Oct 26 Lincoln Theatre, Raleigh NC Sat, Oct 27 Peasants, Greenville NC Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:31:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: And the Oscar goes to JMDL Ken wrote: Who could play Joni? Renee Zelwiger, Gwyneth Paltrow, Jodie Foster I must admit pretty nice selection. However, my first thought was not to consider Gwyneth Paltrow. Especially some of her recent choices and especially this latest one. I think it is insulting to women and women of size. I did not even think of Jodie because I felt a bit constrained with age and which Joni era we were going to play to. As you can see I didn't take this challenge too serious - aye Nuriel? So assuming a younger actress but not too young - my choices would be ... 1. Angelina Jolie 2. Hillary Swank 3. Cate Blanchett and beside Jodie Foster if you're looking over 35 how about Jessica Lang - ooh baby! She sure didn't hurt Patsy Cline any! As far as other stars playing people in Joni 's life still working on that Couldn't Joni play her own mother after all she says to Sharon "we look like our mother's did back when we were those kids age." This is fun thanks Nuriel! peace Susan Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:34:31 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Buddhists & Christians NJC On 23 Oct 2001, at 17:05, Vince Lavieri wrote: > > > > If America was Buddhist, it would have been destroyed and overun long ago, > > > > > > > Who said anything about America becoming Buddhist? > > (Brenda, no one did, but what a cool idea!) > I'd love it if we could start by collectively acknowledging that we have citizens who believe in Buddhist philosphies and therefore it is a part of our pluralist fabric, just like Islam, Judaism, etc. Speaking of Buddhists and Christians, have you ever read "The Good Heart: A Buddhist Perspective on the Teachings of Jesus"? It's a dialogue among the Dalai Lama and various participants at the 1994 John Main Seminar sponsored by the World Community for Christian Meditation. It's remarkable. Brenda ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 23:37:37 -0700 From: Richard Stevens Subject: Re: the 4th estate (NJC) on 23/10/01 1:12 pm, Kakki at KakkiB@worldnet.att.net wrote: > I think I'll just throw the towel in and say you that everything you believe > is right and I everything I say is wrong. The U.S. is a horrible country, > full of stupid and evil people. There is no hope for us except for the > enligthened ones who will show us the new world order. I will obey their > guidance. > > Kakki Yeah ,why don't we let Bin laden take over america and desescrate all our christian Graves, and set up a pure islamic stone age talifate, It would be good :( I jest of course R ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:48:20 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: the 4th estate (NJC) oh yes! and make some of them look like Corbin Bernsen please!!!!!!!! - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Kakki Enviado el: Martes, 23 de Octubre de 2001 05:46 p.m. Para: Victor Johnson CC: joni Asunto: Re: the 4th estate (NJC) > So everything on the X-files is true? Are the >aliens really coming??? I hope so, but they better be cute and sweet and like good 60s music ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:16:24 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: patsy cline njc Jessica Lange did a great Patsy but I was completely blown away by the job Beverly D'Angelo did playing Patsy in coal miners daughter. What a performance. Couldn't believe they didn't choose her for the movie but I guess not enough star power. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:26:09 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: RE: Family stuff (NJC) Lori in MD wrote: "I haven't been around in a few days ... my mom had what was expected to be a routine surgery last Thursday, but things got very complicated for her. I left work Thursday around 4 pm and drove to the Canton, Ohio area. The trip took about 7 hours after I got through DC metro traffic and hauled ass at 85 miles per hour afterwards. I hadn't played Blue in quite awhile but it seemed to be the perfect CD right then ..." Lori, I'm definitely "sending up my prayer" for you, your mom, and your whole family, defined as leniently as possible! Be well, all of you. Take care, Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:00:40 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Steve's concert database (NJC) It looks like Quickbase wants to start charging me $15 a month to host this, so I guess it's going off line Nov 9 - for more recent jmdlers, it's my list of some 1530 shows by some 830 artists that I have seen (and rated) in my possibly mis-spent life: https://www.quickbase.com/db/6yw6x5gv?act=q&qid=5 - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:52:40 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: The 4th Estate - NJC Bobsart wrote: >>Some of the points he makes about our short-term, historical, least of evils foreign policy decisions have the ring of truth - however, they would be better received if placed in full and proper context.<< Since as someone so nicely quoted Joni "life is for learning", I would love to hear your opinion on what the full context would be if you are willing. That is the whole point of this discussion, imo. >>I noted that he is neither a professor of history nor of journalism. Rather, an assistant professor of Psychology at Penn. <<< He is a Fellow, Solomon Asch Center for Study of Ethnopolitical Conflict, which I am guessing means he is spending a year studying ethnopolitical conflict. Someone correct me if I am wrong but I believe that this is what is meant by a Fellow. Which means he is adding to his psychology background in a very interesting way. >>> My personal, anecdotal theory is that the subject matter attracts those who are psychologically disturbed<<< IMO, the profession sometimes attracts people who have some pain in their past (anyone with no pain in their lives raise your hand ;~}). However turning ones pain into a gift is often the product of such a path & often these are the people best suited to help others in similar situations since they have walked in those shoes. Psychology also attracts people who are interested in learning about & working with & helping humans. The use of psychologically disturbed to describe anyone attracted to psychology is quite an blanket statement that makes no sense to me. BTW, I agree with Kakki's earlier post when she said that indeed the media is now broadcasting many views & lots of history. I imagine it took awhile for the letter to get to me & that it might have been written in the early days of this conflict when it was scary to say anything publically which was not 100% behind what the govt was doing... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:52:44 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Family stuff (NJC) i send my prayers of healing to you lori & your wonderful queen ida mom! >>>Please send up a prayer for my mom, "Queen" Ida, who plays the accordion pretty darn well and who gave me my love for music.<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:52:56 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: marxist teachers in the US? (njc) Mario wrote >>>I am quite surprised to read that, at least in some cases, marxist teachers had (or still have) an influence in the US educational system. This was totally unexpected from my italian point of view!<<< Mario, It was unexpected from my USA point of view also. This was one person's opinion but in my opinion not true. Maybe more have opinions on this. Or better yet, facts. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 20:31:45 EDT From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Corporate-speak NJC Hello, I am in (x company) project management training for 3 days! Three fun-filled days of nothing but corporate speak that points out how to manage projects in ways that I already know will never work!!! I am having flashbacks to Total Quality Management training (does anyone remember that? all the rage about 8 years ago). x company has a brochure in which they lay out all of the core competencies of a project lead. it is an extensive list. my perverted brain immediately turns to satire: core deficiencies needed to survive in the corporate world - - suppress all honesty - - originality in thought, dress, or conduct in general is not allowed - - an active imagination is a liability etc. i'm tired so this isn't coming out with the appropriate "corporate veneer". IE, the purpose of corporations is to systematically supress any veneer of atypicality (deliberate nonsense word) in its employees. The dangers of non-standard behavior cannot be overestimated. originality is not tolerated here at XYZ corporation... when i get time, i'm going to write about this. in the meantime, i wrote down a few buzz-words i heard today: grey zone, the important distinction between project and work effort, gatekeepers of knowledge, capability and maturity model etc. etc. etc. There was a detailed discussion of how you could give someone 200 billion dollars and not get the cure for cancer anyway! a bunch of non-physicians expounding on a topic on which they have no knowledge! par for the course in these things... i am very, very tempted to write a number of documents about this - project management training for what it really accomplishes, post-traumatic stress disorder brought on by boring meetings with earnest consultants making lots of money expounding upon the same old stuff, etc. etc. i love corporations! (anyone read that in the onion? wish i could work there. fortunately, i work for the government so corporate-speak is inflicted upon me only rarely. mary ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:12:44 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: the 4th estate (NJC) Yikes, what happened? I am sorry this conversation has made you feel like this Kakki. I don't understand how a conversation about the USA's foreign policy has led you to think anyone is saying that they believe the US is horrible or full of stupid & evil people. >>>I think I'll just throw the towel in and say you that everything you believe is right and I everything I say is wrong. The U.S. is a horrible country, full of stupid and evil people. There is no hope for us except for the enligthened ones who will show us the new world order. I will obey their guidance. Kakki<<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 20:46:35 -0400 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: Re: "Smut" on the list! A suggestion (NJC) I have a few suggestions of the smut I would like to see on list but I get the feeling that isn't what the subject line is referring to ;-) Suze ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 20:46:58 -0400 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: Re: God Angrily Clarifies 'Don't Kill' Rule (njc) >Arab-American Third-Grader Returns From Recess Crying, Saying He Didn't Kill >Anyone >ROYAL OAK, MI Eddie Bahri, 8, a Lincoln Elementary School third-grader of >Iraqi descent, tearfully denied accusations during morning recess Tuesday >that he was a terrorist who killed a bunch of people. "I did not kill >anybody," Bahri told classmate Douglas Allenby. "And my dad didn't, either, >okay?" Also implicated in the Sept. 11 attacks was 9-year-old Rajesh >Soonachian, a Lincoln Elementary fourth-grader of Indian descent. OMG! That is the elementary school I attended! How weird that you have this in here. Metro Detroit has become a haven for people of the Arab nations. I have feared this type of retaliation happening in my old home town, but this is too much. So I am going to share the funny story from 9-11. Sounds like an oxymoron, but those who know me realize that I am always looking for the bright side of things.....So here goes.... Luther is a 7th grader who isn't at the top of the class, if you get my drift...anyway, while waiting in line for lunch I notice that Luther has sided up next to me and is looking quite upset. Visiably shaken, in fact. When things die down in line I ask him quietly if everything is o.k. He asked me, in all seriousness, why Pellston (a neighboring village 8 miles north of us with a county airport) would fly it's planes into the WTCs. I tell him that Pellston was not involved in anything that occured today. He shakes his head at me, and says in this quivering voice, "But Mrs. Cameron, it said right on the news that the PELLstinians were the ones flying the planes". Of course I couldn't laugh, but several of Luther's buddies had stepped up and were chiming in with great glee that it was the PAListinians, from Palistine, not the PELLstinians from Pellston. Luther never did look reassured. So the week after the attack I am dealing with the slightly off balance kids seeking attention at school by saying that they had a family member on one of the planes or in WTCs. The second week I calmed the nightmares, and instilled that we're safe at school. The third week we lost power due to a wind storm and I thought a few of the kids were going to come apart at the seems, screaming "we are being attacked!" at the top of their lungs...Now this week it is kids crying because their parents are being called to duty. Wish I had the answers for these children... Thanks to everyone who is sharing what they are feeling. Thanks especially to our Toronto reporters for taking my mind off of recent events. Thanks to Murph for the Little Green remark then Jimmy for the comic retort. This is my oasis from the evening news and yes, there is a Joni lyric for every occasion in life! "I'm a lucky girl, I've found, my friends....." Much love, Suze ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:11:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: And the Oscar goes to JMDL Hello friends, Jessica could make a great Joni if "our" movie was about an insane bitchy nervous wreck which is 100% fine with me:) "Friends"'s Lisa could make a VERY FUNNY Joni and as you know there's no such thing. (Just kidding. I think Joni is a VERY FUNNY woman) Joni playing her own mother is AMAZING! I'm still drying my tears! Susan, you are a riot! Larry Klein's role, anyone? How about...Burt Reynolds? LOL! And Crossby could play Van Gogh! (How can anyone forget his heartbreaking role in Roseanne?) I think reviving Joni's songs as scenes in the movie could make it a trip. The movie's tytle...? mmmm...Blonde in the bleachers. - --- Susan Guzzi > wrote: >Ken wrote: >Who could play Joni? >Renee Zelwiger, Gwyneth Paltrow, Jodie Foster > >I must admit pretty nice selection. However, my first >thought was not to consider Gwyneth Paltrow. >Especially some of her recent choices and especially >this latest one. I think it is insulting to women and >women of size. > >I did not even think of Jodie because I felt a bit >constrained with age and which Joni era we were going >to play to. As you can see I didn't take this >challenge too serious - aye Nuriel? > >So assuming a younger actress but not too young - my >choices would be ... >1. Angelina Jolie > >2. Hillary Swank > >3. Cate Blanchett > >and beside Jodie Foster if you're looking over 35 how >about Jessica Lang - ooh baby! She sure didn't hurt >Patsy Cline any! > >As far as other stars >playing people in Joni 's life >still working on that > >Couldn't Joni play her own mother after all she says >to Sharon "we look like our mother's did back when we >were those kids age." > >This is fun thanks Nuriel! > >peace >Susan >Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. >http://personals.yahoo.com _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 20:19:23 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: The 4th Estate - NJC Dear Kate: We can all be wounded healers. :) I know I felt it in your music and in your words. Love and peace.......Sharon Kate Bennett wrote: > > Bobsart wrote: >>Some of the points he makes about our short-term, > historical, least of > evils foreign policy decisions have the ring of truth - however, they would > be better received if placed in full and proper context.<< > > Since as someone so nicely quoted Joni "life is for learning", I would love > to hear your opinion on what the full context would be if you are willing. > That is the whole point of this discussion, imo. > > >>I noted that he is neither a professor of history nor of journalism. > Rather, an assistant professor of Psychology at Penn. <<< > > He is a Fellow, Solomon Asch Center for Study of Ethnopolitical Conflict, > which I am guessing means he is spending a year studying ethnopolitical > conflict. Someone correct me if I am wrong but I believe that this is what > is meant by a Fellow. Which means he is adding to his psychology background > in a very interesting way. > > >>> My personal, anecdotal theory is that the subject matter attracts those > who are psychologically disturbed<<< > > IMO, the profession sometimes attracts people who have some pain in their > past (anyone with no pain in their lives raise your hand ;~}). However > turning ones pain into a gift is often the product of such a path & often > these are the people best suited to help others in similar situations since > they have walked in those shoes. Psychology also attracts people who are > interested in learning about & working with & helping humans. The use of > psychologically disturbed to describe anyone attracted to psychology is > quite an blanket statement that makes no sense to me. > > BTW, I agree with Kakki's earlier post when she said that indeed the media > is now broadcasting many views & lots of history. I imagine it took awhile > for the letter to get to me & that it might have been written in the early > days of this conflict when it was scary to say anything publically which was > not 100% behind what the govt was doing... > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett > www.katebennett.com > sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com > Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: > http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html > ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 21:31:33 EDT From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Re: And the Oscar goes to JMDL In a message dated 10/23/01 6:13:00 PM, nuriel@wowmail.com writes: >The movie's tytle...? mmmm...Blonde in the bleachers. no, no, no! that title implies Joni is a spectator in her own life! Trouble Child or Turbulent Indigo. or my favorite, hejira, though that's a bit obscure for the poor non-Joni fans mary People hurry by so quickly Don't they hear the melodies In the chiming and the clicking And the laughing harmonies - - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 21:50:48 -0400 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: "Get Over It" In this teen flick there is the funniest Joni reference since, well, ever! The name of the film is Get Over It. The plot summary is there's only one way to win back his girlfriend, and it involves a musical version of Shakespeare. So, one of the main characters is this young lady who composes and sings her own songs. She volunteers to help the main character study for his audition. The ditsy girl, commenting on her friend's talent, says "She could be the next Josie Mitchell" to which the songwriter replies "That's JONI Mitchell". I recommend those listers who have teens to rent and watch this movie with their kids. It is fun and well written....one of my favorite lines other than the Joni mention is "Hey, how did that lobotomy go?". Looking forward to using that one tomorrow! Sue ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:02:28 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: And the Oscar goes to JMDL Nuriel wrote: > "Friends"'s Lisa could make a VERY FUNNY Joni and as > you know there's no such thing. (Just kidding. I think Joni > is a VERY FUNNY woman) Personally I think Lisa Kudrow would make a very good SERIOUS Joni as well. She is a talented actress - comedy is not necessarily easier than drama. I have some doubts about her guitar-playing and singing ability (given what I've seen in Friends) - although after Neitchze's peeing efforts on Joni's paintings, maybe "Smelly Cat" is appropriate! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:56:54 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Subject: marxist teachers in the US? (njc) Mario wrote: > Mario wrote I am quite surprised to read that, at least in some cases, marxist teachers had (or still have) an influence in the >US educational system. This was totally unexpected from my italian point of view!<<< I think even if I were to compile lots of hard and anecdotal evidence indicating it were true here, some people would still not believe it, so I will just relate some of my experiences. The Marxist teachers I had in high school and college admitted they were Marxists and made no secret of it. Keep in mind that they were "American" Marxists and back in the late 60s when they taught me it was kind of "radical chic" in some circles to be into Marxism and the related ideologies. They may or may not resemble Marxism in other countries. I had interesting experiences, the first of which was very bad but it taught me a lesson and probably served to prejudice me. My high school Government teacher was of the young and hip of the day and ironically, for a Marxist, drove a brand new $70,000 (in today's dollars) Porsche. I had gone through almost the entire school year getting straight As on every test and paper. Then he gave us an assignment where he handed out political cartoons and asked us to write a paper analyzing them. The cartoon I received was of a Mickey Mouse-like creature turned into a rat holding a bomb and labed as a "Weatherman." You may know that the Weatherman and in some cases the SDS were 60s era anti-war, anti-establishment groups present on many university campuses, who were considered very radical because they used violence and bombings to get their points across. Kind of like mini-terrorists. So I had to research all about the groups (the old fashioned way by going to books and newspapers at the library in the stone age before the internet) and prepare an in-depth paper about them. I compiled all the information that I could and wrote a very extensive paper which presented just the facts. In my conclusion, I did briefly add my opinion (which was usually always allowable back then in such school papers) that I felt they should use peaceful, non-violent means to achieve their ends. Imagine my surprise when the teacher gave me a "D" on the paper. It was no different than any of my other work product that had received "As" except that I perhaps had stated a politically incorrect opinion by not presenting the Weatherman in a favorable light. I know many people personally from all over the country of all ages who have had similar experiences and received bad grades when they did not follow or agree with a certain "party line" of a Marxist professor. Later when I was in college, I learned to either not express my opinion with those of my professors who always said upfront that they were Marxist, or to challenge their opinions, and thereby did not jeopardize my good grades. I did have one (again admitted) Marxist Political Science professor who, to my amazement taught the subject straight, in that he never tried to insert his personal slant in teaching the U.S. system of government. I respected that and consider him one of the best teachers I ever had. To those who will challenge me about Marxist teachers gaining hold in the 60s I have two prominent names for you: Herbert Marcuse and Angela Davis Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 22:20:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC Gere being booed/the buddhist perspective - --- "Sharon L. Buffington" wrote: > Because we can...that is why. > > Richard Stevens wrote: > > > > on 23/10/01 8:37 am, Brenda J. Walker at > brenda@killinggoliath.com wrote: > > > > > On 23 Oct 2001, at 11:39, Richard Stevens wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> If America was Buddhist, it would have been > destroyed and overun long ago, > > >> > > > > > > Who said anything about America becoming > Buddhist? > > > > Because it was Hyperthetical, why are we having > this conversation? > > > > R To which I would like to add a) I think you (Richard?) mean hypothetical (unless hyperthetical means more than usually thetical, along the lines of hypo- and hypertension; and b) if the entire world were Buddhist (and lived according to Buddhist philosophies as I understand them), would anyone be destroying anyone else? Hmmmmm. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 22:24:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: the 4th estate (NJC) - --- Kakki wrote: > > So everything on the X-files is true? Are the > >aliens really coming??? > > I hope so, but they better be cute and sweet and > like good 60s music ;-) > > Kakki How about Kang and Kodos from the Simpsons? Too drooly? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 22:31:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Subject: marxist teachers in the US? (njc) - --- Kate Bennett wrote: > Mario wrote >>>I am quite surprised to read that, at > least in some cases, > marxist > teachers had (or still have) an influence in the US > educational system. > This was totally unexpected from my italian point of > view!<<< > > Mario, It was unexpected from my USA point of view > also. This was one > person's opinion but in my opinion not true. Maybe > more have opinions on > this. Or better yet, facts. > I don't know who made the original teachers-are-Marxists post but I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that teachers in the USA are probably similar to teachers in Canada and that many of them, esp. those of a certain age, are inclined towards socialism, but Marxism? A bit extreme, I'd say. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 22:32:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Steve's concert database (NJC) - --- Steve Dulson wrote: > It looks like Quickbase wants to start charging me > $15 a month > to host this, so I guess it's going off line Nov 9 - > for more > recent jmdlers, it's my list of some 1530 shows by > some 830 > artists that I have seen (and rated) in my possibly > mis-spent > life: You've seen that many shows? I am absolutely blowed away! I'm sure I could count all the live concerts I've seen in my entire life on my fingers and probably not all of my toes! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 19:24:22 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Aliens and the 4th estate (NJC) Wally, LOL, oh yes, thanks for bringing up a very cute one that I had forgot ;-) Kakki > oh yes! and make some of them look like >Corbin Bernsen please!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 22:34:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: the 4th estate (NJC) - --- Kate Bennett wrote: > Yikes, what happened? I am sorry this conversation > has made you feel like > this Kakki. I don't understand how a conversation > about the USA's foreign > policy has led you to think anyone is saying that > they believe the US is > horrible or full of stupid & evil people. > > >>>I think I'll just throw the towel in and say you > that everything you > believe > is right and I everything I say is wrong. The U.S. > is a horrible country, > full of stupid and evil people. There is no hope > for us except for the > enligthened ones who will show us the new world > order. I will obey their > guidance. Kakki<<<< > The US is not a horrible country and it is full of many wonderful people - the best ones are on this list. (Being sucky today, making up for being bitchy yesterday.) Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 22:40:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Corporate-speak NJC - --- TimandMaryPowers@aol.com wrote: > Hello, > > I am in (x company) project management training for > 3 days! Three fun-filled > days of nothing but corporate speak that points out > how to manage projects in > ways that I already know will never work!!! I am > having flashbacks to Total > Quality Management training (does anyone remember > that? all the rage about 8 > years ago). > > x company has a brochure in which they lay out all > of the core competencies > of a project lead. it is an extensive list. my > perverted brain immediately > turns to satire: > You and I would get along just fine. I can't take that stuff either and I'm constantly amazed at people who can talk like that *all the time* and sound like they really mean it. I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who just didn't get it. Perhaps I had stumbled into some mysterious cult and they thought I was one of them. Perhaps if I acted like a pod person, they'd never find out I wasn't really one of theirs - how frightening! One of the joys for me of working in government, I suppose, is that even though that sort of thing is trendy in gov't as well, it's not done with as great rabidity as it is in the private sector and there are enough of us who can sit at the back chortling and snorting and counting the cliches, while endeavouring to look serious about it all. What is the matter with these people? Speaking plain English is a lost art. Have fun - I hope they're feeding you and that the food is decent. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 19:34:30 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Subject: marxist teachers in the US? (njc) Catherine, I was me who made the remark about Marxist teachers' influence in the U.S. Maybe today they call themselves Socialists or Progressives and I'm sure they have a different idealogical agenda than they did when I was in school in the 60s and 70s. Back in my day they called themselves "Marxists" and were very open about proclaiming that politcal label. Then again, as I just wrote previously, it was considered to be hip in some circles back then to call onself a Marxist because it was "radical" and definitely a way to show that one was against the "establishment." I know a number of teachers currently in the system who also feel from certain administrators pressure to slant their subjects in a "progressive" ideological way. I don't like it but what can you do? Kakki > I don't know who made the original > teachers-are-Marxists post but I'm going to >go out on a limb here and assume that >teachers in the USA are probably similar to >teachers in Canada and that many of them, >esp. those of a certain age, are inclined > towards socialism, but Marxism? A bit >extreme, I'd say. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 22:45:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: "Get Over It" - --- Sue Cameron wrote: > In this teen flick there is the funniest > Joni reference since, well, ever! > > The name of the film is Get Over It. > The plot summary is there's only one > way to win back his girlfriend, > and it involves a musical version of Shakespeare. > > So, one of the main characters is this young lady > who composes and sings her own songs. She > volunteers > to help the main character study for his audition. > The ditsy girl, commenting on her friend's talent, > says "She could be the next Josie Mitchell" to which > the songwriter replies "That's JONI Mitchell". > Saw that with my daughter a few weeks ago on video. Found most of the story a bit boring, perked up at the Shakespeare scenes they were doing (quite funny!); really perked up at the "Joni Mitchell" mention and didn't the songwriter-girl character have a poster of Laura Nyro on her wall? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 22:51:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Subject: marxist teachers in the US? (njc) - --- Kakki wrote: > Catherine, > > I was me who made the remark about Marxist teachers' > influence in the U.S. > Maybe today they call themselves Socialists or > Progressives and I'm sure > they have a different idealogical agenda than they > did when I was in school > in the 60s and 70s. Back in my day they called > themselves "Marxists" and > were very open about proclaiming that politcal > label. Then again, as I just > wrote previously, it was considered to be hip in > some circles back then to > call onself a Marxist because it was "radical" and > definitely a way to show > that one was against the "establishment." Sorry about that, Kakki. I hadn't read your later post clarifying this, so it makes a lot more sense. Yes, it was very chic to be radical back in the 60s and even the 70s. I had a few of those, but probably none as radical as the ones you encountered - I never met one who called him- or herself a Marxist, but in university it may have depended on what courses you were taking. I was thinking more of teachers of today (one example being my brother-in-law) and I would think of them more as liberals or socialist-leaning, types, but with down-home values. Kind of ex-hippies who've mellowed out a bit. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 19:36:01 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Subject: marxist teachers in the US? (njc) Kakki, thanks for sharing your high school experiences with us. That is a shame that someone like you who was such a good student & worked so hard was treated so unfairly. For the record, I too felt very strongly & only participated in peaceful protests against the war. I never understood the point of protesting war by using violent means. And I don't challenge you on the fact that you had some Marxist teachers. It explains why you feel so strongly about Marxism for sure. What I do challenge you on is this statement that you made: "It's no secret that our educational systems in the U.S. have long been either dominated or heavily influenced by them." I challenge you because I have worked in the US educational system most of my life, spent a year at UCSB's Graduate School of Education & never ever heard such a claim. If it is no secret why haven't I ever heard of this? I have never had a teacher tell me he/she was a Marxist. That doesn't mean that they weren't but I never had anyone tell me that, either as a student or as a peer. It is one thing to have had some Marxist teachers, but quite another to claim it is commonplace knowledge that the US educational system is dominated or heavily influenced by Marxists. I am sorry to challenge you when you are feeling the way you do right now but this is a statement that needs to be backed up with substantial evidence. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 19:57:15 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Subject: marxist teachers in the US? (njc) Catherine wrote: > Sorry about that, Kakki. I hadn't read your later > post clarifying this, so it makes a lot more sense. > Yes, it was very chic to be radical back in the 60s > and even the 70s. I had a few of those, but probably > none as radical as the ones you encountered Probably because I was in California (and you know how we are ;-) where the movement to allow openly Marxist professors to teach began, and the fight to allow them to teach became a movement in itself. (See Herbert Marcuse and Angela Davis) - - I never met one who called him- or herself a Marxist, but in > university it may have depended on what courses you > were taking. Yes, they tend to not be found in the hard sciences, but more in the social and political Sciences. > I was thinking more of teachers of today (one example being my brother-in-law) and I would > think of them more as liberals or socialist-leaning, types, but with down-home values. Kind of ex-hippies > who've mellowed out a bit. Sounds like most of my friends - how did we get so gray and middle class? ;-). I guess my problem is with the ones who teach an agenda. I'm old fashioned in thinking that teachers should ultimately encourage people how to think for themselves independently. Isn't it all about exercising the brain, regardless of the subject, in the end? I think those who layer on a particular political agenda to a subject in school, or worse, punishing students who don't agree with them with bad grades, are taking advantage of their students and crossing the line. Again, this has just been my personal experience and that of some people I know. Others may never have had this experience and I'm sure experiences vary depending on where one grew up or went to school. Kakki Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 23:11:57 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: For Richard Thompson fans in the US (njc) Hi, I caught the tail end of this program and was very impressed with him. I remember some of my Jonilista's telling me a couple of years ago to listen for this man's guitar playing and songwriting abilities. I was not disappointed. My first impression of Richard Thompson was not what I expected on the "Tribute to Joni" special. I wasn't fond of how he interpreted Joni's song (can't even remember which one it was now). Many of his fans on this list came to his rescue and assured me that Richard was a very prolific guitarist, singer, and songwriter. Well, I finally saw that for myself. He was absolutely terrific for the small part of the program I was able to see. Very masterful guitar player, I might add. Here's to another Richard Thompson convert! Sherelle In a message dated 10/22/2001 9:14:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 23:37:21 -0400 > From: dsk > Subject: For Richard Thompson fans in U.S. NJC > > Richard Thompson will be on the tv show "Austin City Limits" this Friday > night, October 26 at midnight (officially October 27) in NYC on Channel > 21 WLIW. It may be showing at another time and on another PBS station in > other areas. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 20:04:44 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Subject: marxist teachers in the US? (njc) Kate, > What I do challenge you on is this statement that you made: "It's no secret > that our educational systems in the U.S. have long been either dominated or > heavily influenced by them." Maybe I should have said a Marxist/Socialist ideology. > I have never had a teacher tell me he/she was a Marxist. That doesn't mean > that they weren't but I never had anyone tell me that, either as a student > or as a peer. I had teachers in high school and in three different colleges in two states who called themself a Marxist. Maybe it was the classes I took - heavy on the arts, liberal arts and political and social sciences. > I am sorry to challenge you when you are feeling the way you do right now > but this is a statement that needs to be backed up with substantial > evidence. You're right. For me to come up with the substantial evidence is going to take a substantial amount of time. However, I will work on it in my free time and get the paper back to you sometime before the end of the term ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 20:35:25 -0700 (PDT) From: CHRIS TREACY Subject: A Note To Yael - not crazy! NJC Yael, I feel your pain. After seeing Tori in Boston (my 7th time, and as far as I'm concerned, not nearly enough), I was all melancholy and weepy about it being over after weeks of anticipation. The show was mind-blowing, as they all have been. Maybe a little crazy, but if I were in your shoes, I think I'd do it. You only live once. Have you been downloading the new tour MP3's as they come on 'Tori's Beauty' and 'Here In My Head' ? They might help quell the withdrawl. As far as crabby Bob's comments, I'll have to turn the other cheek...he usually has better taste than this. Both 'Chorigirl' and the studio side of the 'Venus' set have been amazing recordings. So smell that, Bob! - -Chris NP: Circle of Steel - Gordo ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #510 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?