From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #504 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, October 22 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 504 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- tribute ["Kate Bennett" ] The Fourth Estate, a letter NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: The Fourth Estate, a letter NJC ["Kakki" ] Subject: Joni Sept. 11th paintings in LA TImes ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: JMDL Digest V2001 #503 ["Kate Bennett" ] Today's Articles: October 22 [les@jmdl.com] Today in Joni History: October 22 [les@jmdl.com] Baseball NJC [MGVal@aol.com] Re: IRA etal - NJC [Richard Stevens ] NJC Re: Joni- Toronto World Leader's Tribute- Part 3 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni Tribute in Toronto [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Joni Tribute in Toronto ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Re: Joni Tribute in Toronto [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Joni- Toronto World Leader's Tribute- Part 1 2 and 3 ["Leslie Ross" <] Re: embarrassed fans (NJC) [Coyote4Joni@aol.com] Re: Teena Marie (njc) [Coyote4Joni@aol.com] Re: [Bobsart48@aol.com] smallpox - history of use as biological weapon - njc [M.Russell@iaea.org] RE: smallpox - history of use as biological weapon - njc [M.Russell@iaea.] RE: smallpox - Time article - njc [M.Russell@iaea.org] from Emily Gray TEDROWE (!!!) [Emily K Gray ] RE: smallpox - history of use as biological weapon - njc [M.Russell@iaea.] RE: smallpox - history of use as biological weapon - njc [M.Russell@iaea.] Re: smallpox - history of use as biological weapon - njc [Jerry Notaro ] the 'f' word [christopher blake ] teena marie (njc) [Michael Yarbrough ] RE: The Fourth Estate, a letter NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: teena marie (njc) ["Dolphie Bush" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 23:58:12 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: tribute mags, thank you for the wonderful description of the tribute & your beautiful poem! ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 00:21:43 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: The Fourth Estate, a letter NJC Here is a letter a friend recently sent me. I decided to post it here in hopes some might find it interesting & because it is related to our recent discussions on US foreign policy. Here it is: Dear NIGHTLINE, It is commendable that you seek to explore the causes of the hatred against us. Please do your best to turn this into a history lesson. I implore you to avoid trivialities. Nobody wants to destroy America because it produces porn, or because it does not cover its women. Much less because it supposedly promotes individual liberties. Even to suggest such a thing will distract the minds of Americans who need to understand what their government has been doing over the years. It is your job, as patriots, to inform Americans about things that the government might not want us to hear. That is the only sense in which you are the IV Estate. Otherwise, you are just the propaganda division of the US government. I beg you to rise to the patriotic occasion. Please address the following: 1) The Eisenhower administration's CIA brought down a popular representative government in Iran, in 1953, because Mosaddeq, the prime minister, wanted to nationalize Iran's oil. America installed, nurtured, cradled, and propped the Shah for the next 25 years no matter how dictatorial and oppressive he became. This behavior, of course, led to the bloody Islamic revolution in Iran. You have to SAY this, and to put the blame where it belongs: OUR CIA, and OUR foreign policy. Show us that you are a free press, and not the propaganda division of the US government. 2) Saddam Hussein is another CIA creation. We call him a 'Hitler' now, but he comes with a "Made in America" label stamped on the back of his neck. We installed him and supported him, and we encouraged him to wage a bloody war against Iran over a few square meters of real-estate. We needed to hit Iran hard, thru Iraq, because Iran had become dangerously anti-American because...uh huh...you begin to see the problem. 3) Saddam thought he had our blessing for everything. We had never stopped him before, and we had been supplying him with weapons. That is why he attacked Kuwait, the deliverance of which cost American lives. 4) Jihad as political holy war had been a dead concept in Islam for centuries. When a few crackpots in Pakistan and Afghanistan started talking about a holy war against the Soviet imperialists, the US thought, "Great! Let's get this started and launch millions of Muslims against our Cold War opponents." So we fostered, encouraged, and funded this holy war of the mujahideen. Osama bin Laden was our ally, spending his own money and organizing people on the ground, as well as bringing them from all parts of the Islamic world. WE built the network that is bin Laden's Al Queida. 5) When it became necessary to deliver Kuwait from OUR violent protegi Saddam Hussein, American troops were stationed in Saudi Arabia, bin Laden's homeland. But they never left, and this is holy soil. This insult is added to the fact that we installed the ruling family there and have been supporting them ever since even though they run the country in dictatorial fashion and are widely hated. That is what made bin Laden our enemy. We had already built him up into a powerful warlord, and now he had gotten out of control. Sounds like Saddam? Yes it does. 6) When the Islamic party in Algeria won in fair and free elections, we supported the violent crackdown of the military because, it was said, the Islamicists would abolish democracy. So we made sure it was abolished before the Islamicists had a chance to try. It is hard to imagine that the bloody rampages that have characterized Algeria since could have been worse under the Islamicists. But we will never know, because America hates democratic outcomes. What it likes is tin-pot dictators that are obliged in clientship relationships to the United States. Of course, this is very dangerous. But it keeps happening because what each President keeps thinking about is the next election, not long-term outcomes, and American's don't read History. 7) Finally, we have been supporting Israel since its inception, even though it is a state born of terrorist violence, and even though its abuses have been many. Menachem Begin, one of the first prime-ministers of Israel, used to be a wanted terrorist with a bounty on his head. But who knows this? Do you? Americans don't read history. They are not interested. YOU MUST BRING THIS UP. The Palestinians are guilty of crimes as well, but we have never shown an even hand in the region: we mostly condemn the crimes of the Palestinians, the crimes of the weak. We have been Israel's unconditional allies. 8) I want to end this list with the future. In a few days, NATO troops will leave Macedonia and a bloodbath will begin. Paramilitary squads are trained and ready, and it is likely that the army will join them in anti-Albanian rampage. Nobody on the ground believes that a peaceful outcome is even remotely possible once NATO leaves. The conclusion that Muslims everywhere will draw is that we don't care about Muslim lives, and that we have left Muslims in Macedonia to be butchered by Macedonian Slavs in retaliation for the bombings. This is how it will be seen. 9) Another point for the future is that, without firing a shot, our rhetoric has already radicalized many in Pakistan, and the country is becoming unstable. The brand of fundamentalism in Pakistan is Taliban, imported from the conflict in Afghanistan when the Pakistanis assisted the Taliban by letting them train inside Pakistan. If Pakistan falls to a Taliban revolution, the same people who are protecting bin Laden will control a country with millions of people AND nuclear weapons. This list is incomplete. However, it brings into relief that the claim that Americans are hated because of their "culture" is total madness. It will not help Americans understand why they have been attacked. Please: Educate Americans about this history. Stay away from the ridiculous claims that we are hated because we respect individual liberties. In the Muslim world, over and over again, we consistently HAVE NOT respected individual liberties but rather supported tin-pot dictators. Therefore, the claim that we are hated because of our "culture" is a complete travesty of the truth. Before the fiasco in Iran, Americans were perceived all over the Muslim world as a benign world power. The hated powers were the colonialists: France and Britain. American culture was not radically different then. Women showed their skin, unmarried people kissed in movies, there was pornography, drinking, etc. If we were really hated for our "culture" this hate should have peaked in the 60's. It is peaking NOW. Now that we have become much more conservative than in that decade. REMEMBER: It is your duty to educate. Patriotism for a media outlet, at this crucial moment, means teaching history. It means using the freedom of the press to say things that are difficult to say and hear. Patriotism means NOT BEING PROPAGANDISTS FOR THE GOVERNMENT. Patriotism, for you, and for me, and for all of us, means not allowing the truth to be the first casualty of war. Please, I beg you, do your duty. Now more than ever. Francisco Gil-White Fellow, Solomon Asch Center for Study of Ethnopolitical Conflict Assistant Professor of Psychology, University of Pennsylvania ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 00:51:10 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: The Fourth Estate, a letter NJC I would ask first if the professor is a Marxist, and if he is not I would refer him to this article and then ask him which side he wants to live under. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011021/wl/attack_venezuela_carlos_dc_1.htm l Kakki, sometimes wondering which side we will end up under. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 00:31:56 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Joni Sept. 11th paintings in LA TImes Kakki, thanks so much for posting these paintings....i really relate to the contrast of the exploding towers juxtiposed with the serenity of her garden...a powerful statement that i imagine many of us feel who are not in NYC.... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 00:53:43 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: The Fourth Estate, a letter NJC Here is the article in case the Yahoo link does not work. I really think it's getting time for people to make hard choices. Kakki Sunday October 21 1:15 PM ET Carlos the Jackal: Sept. 11 Victims 'Enemy Soldiers' CARACAS, Venezuela (Reuters) - Carlos the Jackal, the jailed Venezuelan-born revolutionary widely seen as a symbol of terrorism, was quoted Sunday as saying the victims of last month's suicide attacks in the United States were mostly ``enemy soldiers in uniform and ties.'' In an interview published in the leading Caracas daily El Universal, Carlos expressed support for what he termed the ''revolutionary, anti-imperialist'' war being waged by Osama bin Laden (news - web sites), the Saudi-born militant accused by U.S. authorities of ordering the Sept. 11 attacks in New York and Washington. ``The September 11 air attacks struck the command centers of Yankee imperialist aggression against the peoples of the world: the military center at the Pentagon (news - web sites) and the center of financial speculation in New York,'' said Carlos, whose real name is Illich Ramirez Sanchez. ``The dead are almost all enemy soldiers, in uniform in the Pentagon and wearing ties in New York,'' he added, referring to the more than 5,000 people believed killed in the attacks that damaged the Pentagon and demolished the World Trade Center. Carlos, now 52, graying and portly, is serving a life sentence in Paris' La Sante prison for the 1975 murder of two French secret service agents. He is believed responsible for some 80 killings in the name of the Palestinian struggle and other revolutionary causes during the 1970s and 1980 El Universal did not say when or how it conducted the interview with Carlos, who recently announced he would marry his French lawyer and also has relatives in Venezuela. The aging Venezuelan revolutionary, who was spirited by France out of Sudan in 1994, is being held in solitary confinement and makes occasional court appearances. Carlos, who called himself ``a revolutionary since I was 14 years old'', said he did not personally know bin Laden, who is being sheltered by Afghanistan (news - web sites)'s Taliban rulers. But he added: ``Sheikh Osama's fight to liberate the three occupied holy cities of Mecca and Medina (in Saudi Arabia) and Jerusalem is mine also''. Carlos, who described himself as a Marxist and said he had converted to Islam, said President Bush (news - web sites) ``had declared a crusade against the Muslim people of Afghanistan''. He said the Taliban were Afghanistan's ``legal government'' and hoped they would resist the U.S. offensive against them. ``The response is Jihad (Hold War),'' he said, adding that ''All those who stand up against imperialist arrogance are objectively defending world revolution''. Carlos, recalling his own violent career in support of the Palestine cause, said ``the conflict in Palestine is the epicenter of revolutionary war at an international level''. The Venezuelan revolutionary is best known for masterminding the 1975 assault on an OPEC (news - web sites) meeting in Vienna, where he and five others took about 70 people hostage, including 11 oil ministers. The incident made him the world's most wanted man and a symbol of terrorism. Carlos was asked how he viewed Venezuela's outspoken, left-leaning President Hugo Chavez, who two years ago wrote to the guerrilla in his jail cell, calling him ``Dear compatriot''. ``My political position toward Hugo Chavez has not changed, I feel solidarity toward our Bolivarian Revolution,'' Carlos said, referring to Chavez' frequent references to the 19th Latin American independence hero Simon Bolivar. In a recent visit to Paris, Chavez said his government had a duty to look after Carlos' human rights as a Venezuelan. Political opponents accused the Venezuelan leader of being ambiguous toward the U.S.-led offensive against terrorism. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 00:42:01 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2001 #503 ashara, thank you for your wonderfully detailed account of what sounds like an extraordinary once in a lifetime event! ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 04:42:42 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: October 22 On October 22 this article was published: 1998: "Taming the Tiger" - Seattle Times (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/981022st.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 643 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 04:42:42 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: October 22 On October 22 in Joni Mitchell History: 1988: Joni performs a short set in San Remo, Italy. Mauro Regis writes "This was the second (and last) Joni's appearance in Italy after 1983 tour. She was prized with the Premio Tenco, and performed a solo set of about thirty minutes. She was cold and throat ill, but played an incredible set, with one of the early (or maybe the first) live performance of "Night Ride home", and a building up "Passion Play" with no words." - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 05:55:30 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Baseball NJC In a message dated 10/22/2001 12:19:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << And if the Mariners can knock the Yankees out that would be a small consolation. >> After a few tense moments, the Yankees tied up the game in the bottom of the 8th and won it in the 9th with a two run homer! I don't know what was better: seeing them win or watching the shots of Paul McCartney dancing in the aisles! MG - another insomniac list peeker ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:31:27 -0700 From: Richard Stevens Subject: Re: IRA etal - NJC on 16/10/01 6:52 pm, Bobsart48@aol.com at Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > Rob Ettridge wrote: > > "To say that the 'British' should pull out of 'Northern Ireland' is an over > simplification." > > I certainly agree, and do not believe there are many (on a percentage basis) > in the US who hold that view. > > " As I think Colin said, one of the main problems is that > most of the population of Northern Ireland consider themselves British." > > I am not close enough to the feelings of the Northern Irish to evaluate the > nuances of that statement, but are you implying that the Protestant > (majority) generally does and the Catholic (minority) generally does not ? > > "The British Government consists of democratically elected MPs from all > sides of the conflicts, and we are all one country." > > I understand the 'democratically elected" part, but I do not fully understand > the 'all sides of the conflict' part. Could you please elaborate ? > > > " I honestly, honestly, honestly don't mean this to be a British vs US thing, > and I know that this is glib and an oversimplification but as a tenuous > example: to say that the 'British' should leave Northern Ireland makes as > much sense as saying that 'Americans' should leave Alaska or pull out of > Hawaii" > > If it is glib and an oversimplification, they why use it as an example ? My > very very limited understanding of Irish/British history is that the Irish > prior to 1800 were under British rule, but hated it. Around that time, there > was a rebellion, the British answer to which was to make Ireland part of > Britain (although Catholics were not given the right to hold office until 30 > years later). After WW1, when the Irish declared their independence, fighting > and negotiation led to southern Ireland becoming a dominion, with Northern > Ireland remaining part of the UK (presumably because most of NI was > Protestant). The end result being that, over a 120 year period, part of > Ireland became more independent of Great Britain while the other part became > more dependent (i.e., part of) Great Britain. I am sure it is more > complicated than that. However, the history is far removed from that of > Alaska and Hawaii, territories which applied for statehood and were accepted > as part of the US willfully, with no ongoing secessionist movement. > > Please note that I am a "mutt-American" - I have so many different roots I > am a man without a proper adjective. I have no particular emotional or vested > interest in the Irish situation. That said, my general view is that if one is > to engage in the terrors of war (where all is fair, in reality, in the end), > then one must have a strong and just cause. As of now, I am pretty far from > persuaded that the IRA has sufficient cause for its actions. > > On a different but related note, I am fully persuaded that the radical > Arab/Muslim terrorists do not have such strong and just cause for their > actions. I do not care if they disagree. They declared war, and clear > thinking Americans know we must and will defend ourselves against that terror. > > Finally, once again the evils committed along the lines of (if not directly > in the name of) organized religions are among the modern world's greatest. > That is one of my reasons for having walked away from organized religion - > net/net, they turn out to be divisive rather than unifying forces, IMO. > Catholic versus Protestant, Muslim versus Jew, Muslim vesus Hindu, Muslim > versus Christian, Christian versus Jew, Sunni vesus Shiite, etc. How sad. Don't forget though, Divisive left/right politics killed 200 million people in the 20th century far more than all religions have done in the history of mankind... R ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:05:29 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Joni- Toronto World Leader's Tribute- Part 3 Asharab, Ididnbthave anybproblem readingbyour postsb! Thankbsfor allbthe greatbreporting! :~D Bob NbP: ElvisbCostello, "Days"b ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:16:53 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Joni Tribute in Toronto I can now imagine what it must have felt like to be in the audience during the taping of PWWAM. I've only been to two of Joni's concerts, but this homage to Joni Mitchell outshines the concerts by far. Ashara did an excellent job of documenting this wonderful evening, so you already know the details. It was an amazing night in such an elegant setting. Men and women dressed to the nines to honor Joni. The reception, the dinner, and the actual tribute were 5 hours of total bliss for me. To be surrounded by such good friends from the list enhanced this evening even further. I could tell that Joni was really enjoying herself. She sat undisturbed with her good friends and family throughout the evening. No pesky reporters or photographers in her face. No adulating fans seeking autographs or as Bob Murphy so humorously mentioned "I wouldn't put it past any one of them to slap an inebriated arm around poor Kilauren and ask the nearest photographer to, "Get one of me and 'Little Green' here." LOL!! If any of this was going on, I certainly didn't see it. I had the privilege of finally meeting JM.Com's very own Jim Johanson. What a wonderful man! He showed what class he has when he sent a short note to Joni through one of the waiters which read something like : "Congratulations Joni, I know you are having a wonderful evening with family and friends and I don't want to disturb you. Just letting you know I'm here." (I know I didn't get the wording correctly Jim, and I hope you don't mind my mentioning this) Anyway, I'm just saying to the list what a gentleman you are, and how you exemplify this great Internet community. back to the tribute................The big event was a blend of Joni's peers showing their appreciation and respect by way of songs or short speeches. To see Gordon Lightfoot up on stage, to watch Mr. Kratzman sit and chat with Joni about her school days, to listen to Joni talk about her life, and then to top this all off with Joni playing the piano and singing bits from her upcoming album. This was an incredible evening of all sides of Joni which I shall never forget. SPECIAL NOTE: I must apologize to my dear friend Coyote Rick. He purchased our tickets the day they went on sale. Rick told me we were in the first row, but seats 34 & 35. Knowing this was a small venue, I figured we would be way to the left of the stage. The day of the tribute I told him I would rather have seats on the fourth or fifth row and be in the middle. (Here's where I eat crow.) We were ushered to our seats 34 & 35, but they sat us in the second row. We were right in the middle, but in the second row! Sitting next to Rick was jmdler Janine Sherman. I was happy with our center seats, but why this row of empty ones in front of us? WELL, in they walked, one after the other as my jaw hit the floor. Kilauren sat in front of me, Larry Klein in front of Rick, and Joni sat in front of Janine! It was the closest I've ever been to Joni. Don't worry folks, we did the JMDL proud. The three of us showed class. I only took the Altoids from Kilauren's purse. Then, using tweezers, Rick yanked a neck hair from Larry. (Larry slapped the back of his neck thinking it was a mosquito) AND lovely Janine kept kicking Joni's seat saying "Now, how do you think your housekeeper felt Ms. Mitchell???" :~D So, there Coyote Rick! I'm sorry I complained about our seats. Are you satisfied now???? Thank you Toronto and Joni for a wonderful evening! Jimmy (back in hot Ft. Myers) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 13:26:41 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: Joni Tribute in Toronto I love this! It's probably what I would be thinking if I was ast this close to Her Joniness! - ----- Original Message ----- > Don't worry folks, we did the JMDL proud. The three of us showed class. I > only took the Altoids from Kilauren's purse. Then, using tweezers, Rick > yanked a neck hair from Larry. (Larry slapped the back of his neck thinking > it was a mosquito) AND lovely Janine kept kicking Joni's seat saying "Now, > how do you think your housekeeper felt Ms. Mitchell???" :~D > > So, there Coyote Rick! I'm sorry I complained about our seats. Are you > satisfied now???? > > Thank you Toronto and Joni for a wonderful evening! > > Jimmy > (back in hot Ft. Myers) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:40:53 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Tribute in Toronto In a message dated 10/22/01 8:18:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FMYFL@aol.com writes: > Don't worry folks, we did the JMDL proud. The three of us showed class. I > only took the Altoids from Kilauren's purse. Then, using tweezers, Rick > yanked a neck hair from Larry. (Larry slapped the back of his neck thinking > > it was a mosquito) AND lovely Janine kept kicking Joni's seat saying "Now, > how do you think your housekeeper felt Ms. Mitchell???" :~D > > Jimmy, you are one sick pup!!!! ROTFLMAO fiftyblashes withbawet noodle Miss Crump rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 12:47:13 +0000 From: "Leslie Ross" Subject: Re: Joni- Toronto World Leader's Tribute- Part 1 2 and 3 This report was just excellent. I really regret not getting along to the event. Biiiiig mistake. The accounts of the new work in progress are just driving me mad with anticipation and I'm wondering at the same time how I could lig my way into the recording sessions here in London. Les (London) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:57:15 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Re: embarrassed fans (NJC) In a message dated 10/19/01 3:50:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, courtandspark@earthlink.net writes: << I am listening to Hall and Oates right this very minute. Love em. Belong to their posting site too though it is not as evolved as Joni's. Contrary to what some may believe, they are anything but shallow. Except maybe for that 80's hit stuff. >> I saw H&O the night before I left for Toronto. They gave a great show. One of the best concerts I went to all year - Hall was in great voice. Oates looked great as always (okay, I used to have a thing for that wild man). The show was in a smallish venue (about 3,000) 50 miles north of LA which was quite full. It was Hall's birthday - I think he said he was 61 -is that possible- and the audience sang happy birthday to him. They did the run of their hits and a few songs from their upcoming album. Cheesy? Yep - but I. Ioved most of it they sure sold some music. My reluctant other half even enjoyed the show. The only one I didn't think transferred well live was She's Gone, which was my favorite song of theirs -- first heard it crossing the Golden Gate Bridge in SF many moons ago. No regrets, Coyote Rick (still wondering what to write about Friday night) Casa Alegre Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:57:52 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Re: Teena Marie (njc) The main thing I recall about Teena (besides LoverGirl) is she was the first Caucasian woman to be signed by Motown records. The first caucasion group? Rare Earth many years before. I learned this at the Motown Museum in Detroit - - a must see for any Motown fans out there. No regrets, Coyote Rick Casa Alegre Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 09:24:22 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Marian wrote: "Now that I think about it, I think it was the Spanish in Central America who did the thing with the blankets. In some areas, 100% of the population was wiped out.................. In North America, I think more than 60% of the Native Americans died from smallpox." OK, so let me see if I have this right. The Spaniards in Central America intentionally sold blankets laced with smallpox (did they wear rubber gloves so they would not catch it themselves ?) to the Native Indians in Central America, who contracted it in large numbers. Then, just before their extinction, they managed to spread this communicable (but not so communicable) disease to the Aztecs through direct contact such as warfare, and before you know it, it had spread through intermarriage and whatever to all of the other 200+ tribes in North America until over 60% of the Indians were dead, but leaving the white man mostly unscathed (because of their secret vaccines). And that is how the Spanish intentionally killed off 60% of the Native Indians. Personally, I think there is some chance that diseases spread among Native Americans in many areas, in many ways, from many sources (no doubt most of them European), in the vast majority of cases unintentionally. I will give my "cousin" who is chair of the History department at Providence a call to see what most historians think happened there, in terms of intentional versus unintentional. Bob S. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:33:27 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: smallpox - history of use as biological weapon - njc What I wrote the first time was closer to the truth. This is what I read. Marian + + + + + + + + [JAMA is the Journal of the American Medical Association] http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v281n22/ffull/jst90000.html HISTORY AND POTENTIAL AS A BIOWEAPON Smallpox probably was first used as a biological weapon during the French and Indian Wars (1754-1767) by British forces in North America. Soldiers distributed blankets that had been used by smallpox patients with the intent of initiating outbreaks among American Indians. Epidemics occurred, killing more than 50% of many affected tribes. With Edward Jenner's demonstration in 1796 that an infection caused by cowpox protected against smallpox and the rapid diffusion worldwide of the practice of cowpox inoculation (ie, vaccination), the potential threat of smallpox as a bioweapon was greatly diminished. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:37:57 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: smallpox - history of use as biological weapon - njc Here's more on the history: http://seercom.com/bluto/smallpox/history.html Hispanola (modern Haiti and the Dominican Republic) were the first site of European contact. Exposure to smallpox during early Spanish attempts to convert the population into plantation slavery exterminated all 3.5 million inhabitants. They were replaced by African slaves, and this process was repeated throughout the New World for decades. Cortes introduced smallpox in 1520 during his unsuccessful assault on Techotitlan, the Aztec capital, now Mexico City. He had retreated to the coast and was surprised to find no retribution force following. After a few months he sent spies to the capital who reported widespread smallpox, and he returned to conquer the Aztecs in a matter of a few weeks, and established himself as their new god and emperor. The conquest of the continent was very much facilitated by rapid population declines. The history of early settlement was typically one of European settlers moving into an area, fighting aboriginals and over time, finding less and less resistance. The Aztec, Huron, Iroquois, Mohigan and other major nations with populations in the millions were reduced to thousands or eliminated altogether, mostly by smallpox. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:48:22 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: smallpox - Time article - njc From time.com : "First, the good news: There is no reason to believe anyone has any plans to introduce smallpox into the United States. Now, the not-so-good news: There is no guarantee someone won't use smallpox against us as a biological weapon. "Given the not-so-good news, the U.S. government has decided now might be a good time to look into vaccinating the entire nation against smallpox - a disease that was officially eradicated in 1977. It's no small task: Health officials estimate we now have about 15 million doses of the vaccine, and there are plans afoot to purchase another 300 million. The government could also dilute existing doses just enough to inoculate everyone - without, we can only assume, compromising the immunizing threshold of the vaccine. The vaccine, drawn from active smallpox cultures, can also slow or stop the advance of the disease if administered during the first four days after exposure to the virus. "It would be an emergency vaccination plan, designed to pick up where the government left off in 1972, when routine smallpox vaccinations fell out of favor. (Experts can't determine the level of immunity among those vaccinated before 1972, so pretty much everyone would have to be immunized again.) " http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,180313,00.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 09:42:01 -0400 From: Emily K Gray Subject: from Emily Gray TEDROWE (!!!) hi all. courtney and i got hitched on saturday, 10/20. it was beautiful, a small and perfect gem of a ceremony (officiated by ourselves and including a part where *I* told *HIM* "you may now kiss the bride!"). we had 40 people -- our friends and families -- and it was a real trip, i mean a real wonderful emotional burst of joy, to get all signed up officially with this person who has changed my life. and now for the JC! my two best friends, pro and semi-pro singers, sang "at last" a cappella and in harmony... and at the restaurant, where i had put "court and spark" in the CD changer (courtney got to choose one phish CD... his love), it turned out that the dance that we did with our parents was "free man in paris"! weird, but weirdly perfect. courtney and i did our "first dance" (well, SOME of these traditions i love, esp. the ones about music) to "bye and bye" off the new dylan album. all in all, a magical night -- one that filled this new yorker's heart with hope and love despite the concurrent acknowledgment that mourning and sadness don't go away... OK, so thanks for reading this (for those who care!) -- now i'm off to have some coffee with my HUSBAND (whoa). we're heading to a beautiful little wooden inn in the adirondacks next weekend where we will hike, sleep, and get out of NYC! love, emily tedrowe, reporting live from her second full day of marital bliss in brooklyn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:57:24 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: smallpox - history of use as biological weapon - njc http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/smallpox1.html Modern History Sourcebook: Smallpox, Indians, and Blankets From an Internet post by Mary Ritchie (ritchie@cs.uwp.edu) Fri, 2 Jul 1993. She addressed the question of whether Smallpox was really spread by blankets to American Indians This reference [for the story of American Indians and deliberate smallpox spreading ] is from American Indian Holocaust and Survival: A Population History Since 1492, by Russell Thornton, 1987 (Norman: U. of Oklahoma Pr.) pp.78-79 It is also during the eighteenth century that we find written reports of American Indians being intentionally exposed to smallpox by Europeans. In 1763 in Pennsylvania, Sir Jeffrey Amherst, commander of the British forces....wrote in the postscript of a letter to Bouquet the suggestion that smallpox be sent among the disaffected tribes. Bouquet replied, also in a postscript, "I will try to innoculate the[m]...with some blankets that may fall into their hands, and take care not get the disease myself." ....To Bouquet's postscript, Amherst replied, "You will do well as to try to innoculate the Indians by means of blankets as well as to try every other method that can serve to extirpate this exorable race." On June 24, Captain Ecuyer, of the Royal Americans, noted in his journal: "Out of our regard for them (i.e. two Indian chiefs) we gave them two blankets and a handkerchief out of the smallpox hospital. I hope it will have the desired effect." (quoted from Stearn, E. and Stearn, A. "Smallpox Immunization of the Amerindian.", Bulletin of the History of Medicine 13:601-13.) Thornton goes on to report that smallpox spread to the tribes along the Ohio river. ....To Bouquet's postscript, Amherst replied, "You will do well as to try to innoculate the Indians by means of blankets as well as to try every other method that can serve to extirpate this exorable race." On June 24, Captain Ecuyer, of the Royal Americans, noted in his journal: "Out of our regard for them (i.e. two Indian chiefs) we gave them two blankets and a handkerchief out of the smallpox hospital. I hope it will have the desired effect." (quoted from Stearn, E. and Stearn, A. "Smallpox Immunization of the Amerindian.", Bulletin of the History of Medicine 13:601-13.) Thornton goes on to report that smallpox spread to the tribes along the Ohio river. This text is part of the Internet Modern History Sourcebook . The Sourcebook is a collection of public domain and copy-permitted texts for introductory level classes in modern European and World history. Unless otherwise indicated the specific electronic form of the document is copyright. Permission is granted for electronic copying, distribution in print form for educational purposes and personal use. If you do reduplicate the document, indicate the source. No permission is granted for commercial use of the Sourcebook. (c)Paul Halsall Aug 1997 halsall@murray.fordham.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 16:06:09 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: smallpox - history of use as biological weapon - njc On 22 October 2001 16:06, Jerry Notaro [SMTP:notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu] wrote: > Why Marian, You're a Librarian! > > btw, I know Paul and he is a first rate librarian. > > Jerry :^D Yeah, I think I missed my calling! I should have listened to that Music Man song! Marian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:05:40 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: smallpox - history of use as biological weapon - njc Why Marian, You're a Librarian! btw, I know Paul and he is a first rate librarian. Jerry M.Russell@iaea.org wrote: > http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/smallpox1.html > > Modern History Sourcebook: Smallpox, Indians, and Blankets > > >From an Internet post by Mary Ritchie (ritchie@cs.uwp.edu) Fri, 2 Jul 1993. > She addressed the question of whether Smallpox was really spread by blankets > to American Indians > This reference [for the story of American Indians and deliberate smallpox > spreading ] is from American Indian Holocaust and Survival: A Population > History Since 1492, by Russell Thornton, 1987 (Norman: U. of Oklahoma Pr.) > pp.78-79 > It is also during the eighteenth century that we find written reports of > American Indians being intentionally exposed to smallpox by Europeans. In > 1763 in Pennsylvania, Sir Jeffrey Amherst, commander of the British > forces....wrote in the postscript of a letter to Bouquet the suggestion that > smallpox be sent among the disaffected tribes. Bouquet replied, also in a > postscript, > "I will try to innoculate the[m]...with some blankets that may fall into > their hands, and take care not get the disease myself." > ....To Bouquet's postscript, Amherst replied, > "You will do well as to try to innoculate the Indians by means of blankets > as well as to try every other method that can serve to extirpate this > exorable race." > On June 24, Captain Ecuyer, of the Royal Americans, noted in his journal: > "Out of our regard for them (i.e. two Indian chiefs) we gave them two > blankets and a handkerchief out of the smallpox hospital. I hope it will > have the desired effect." > (quoted from Stearn, E. and Stearn, A. "Smallpox Immunization of the > Amerindian.", Bulletin of the History of Medicine 13:601-13.) > Thornton goes on to report that smallpox spread to the tribes along the Ohio > river. > ....To Bouquet's postscript, Amherst replied, > "You will do well as to try to innoculate the Indians by means of blankets > as well as to try every other method that can serve to extirpate this > exorable race." > On June 24, Captain Ecuyer, of the Royal Americans, noted in his journal: > "Out of our regard for them (i.e. two Indian chiefs) we gave them two > blankets and a handkerchief out of the smallpox hospital. I hope it will > have the desired effect." > (quoted from Stearn, E. and Stearn, A. "Smallpox Immunization of the > Amerindian.", Bulletin of the History of Medicine 13:601-13.) > Thornton goes on to report that smallpox spread to the tribes along the Ohio > river. > This text is part of the Internet Modern History Sourcebook > . The Sourcebook is a > collection of public domain and copy-permitted texts for introductory level > classes in modern European and World history. > Unless otherwise indicated the specific electronic form of the document is > copyright. Permission is granted for electronic copying, distribution in > print form for educational purposes and personal use. If you do reduplicate > the document, indicate the source. No permission is granted for commercial > use of the Sourcebook. > (c)Paul Halsall Aug 1997 > halsall@murray.fordham.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:01:32 EDT From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: tribute to 9/11 victims NJC http://www.gambino.com/tribute/tribute.swf mary ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:23:38 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Songs with "F**k" in the lyrics (NJC) I'm glad that Rick and Susan, Vince and others have convincingly deflated the "Louie Louie" myth. The earliest f-word song I remember on the radio was Desmond Dekker and the Aces "Israelites", about 1967..."My wife and my children fuck off an'a leave me..." Great early reggae! - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:42:22 -0700 (PDT) From: christopher blake Subject: the 'f' word as a part-time lurker i wonder if it is my place to say anything but i will anyway. i would appreciate it, in future subject headings, if people could refrain from using profanity. there are other, more literate, means to convey a message to the masses. i am checking my mail at school and do not know if any young people saw the prominently displayed vulgarities upon my screen. in the future i will only check my mail after school hours when purveyors of smut can feel free to contact me. Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:17:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: teena marie (njc) OK, I haven't been around much for the last several months, but I do scan the archives every once in a while, and just could not bear to have Teena Marie go down in the annals of history as a one-hit wonder. Aside from her talent and general fabulousness, Teena's defining characteristic--and probably the reason she was discussed in the context of Laura Nyro--is that she is perhaps the most notable white musician to have a predominantly black audience. There are plenty of blue-eyed soul singers--Dusty, Annie, Lisa Stansfield--of course, but each of these has had a largely crossover audience, whereas Teena enjoyed airplay almost exclusively on R&B/urban stations. Teena's primary producer and love interest was none other than Rick James, and she recorded for Motown. I know she is still touring, though I suspect these are more nostalgic jukebox shows than anything. - --Michael NP: 'Retha, _Young Gifted & Black_ ===== ___________________________________________________________________________ "[Naipaul] is devoutly read wherever literacy in English prevails, as well as in parts of America." - --Gavin McNett, "The Black Sheep." http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2001/10/14/naipaul/index.html Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:17:07 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: The Fourth Estate, a letter NJC >>>I would ask first if the professor is a Marxist, and if he is not I would refer him to this article and then ask him which side he wants to live under. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011021/wl/attack_venezuela_carlos_dc_1.htm Kakki, sometimes wondering which side we will end up under.<<< I do not see a connection between the two articles but maybe I am missing something. I don't know whether the professor is a Marxist or not. I do not equate trying to understand the roots of terrorism with the support of terrorism. Along these lines was a report I watched last night on 60 minutes regarding education in Pakistan. They showed the public schools where students sat outside on the ground, the strict religious schools where they only memorize the koran & a private school (a big building where the students learned English & many wanted to study in the US). What was shocking/eye opening was the fact that many of these highly educated private school students related to Osama in some way. All of this to say that what concerns me the most, in this war against terrorism, is that it is being reduced to some kind of Batman type of scenario of good vs evil. It is far more complex than that. And that kind of good vs. evil rhetoric is off putting to me. I know I am not the only one that feels that way. I do believe that in order to "fight" terrorism we need to understand why it exists. I don't mean trying to understand Osama, but trying to understand why he appeals to his followers. And why others who do not support his terrorist acts still relate to him. What are the conditions that have created this situation. And what are the conditions that could alleviate this for future generations? ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:42:35 EDT From: ZZScotty@aol.com Subject: sig line njc Kate Bennett hopes that no one takes offense to her signature line. I certainly don't. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:38:52 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: the 'f' word s a part-time lurker i wonder if it is my place to > say anything but i will anyway. i would appreciate it, > in future subject headings, if people could refrain > from using profanity. there are other, more literate, > means to convey a message to the masses. i am checking > my mail at school and do not know if any young people > saw the prominently displayed vulgarities upon my > screen. in the future i will only check my mail after > school hours when purveyors of smut can feel free to > contact me. The first part of this post was okay, until the purveyors of smut comment. I don't ever remember using profanity here but if I did it would be appropriate since this is a site for Joni Mitchell and that word is from one of her songs. She also deals with adult content in her songs. I really don't think this is the place for censorship. If you, Mr. Blake, are allowing kids access to this site, then that is your fault, not the people who are doing the posting, and furthermore, using profanity does not make one a purveyor of smut. I suggest you find yourself a site more appropriate for you if you do not like what is written here. Also, smut is a subjective term, to say the least. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:40:46 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: teena marie (njc) > OK, I haven't been around much for the last several > months, but I do scan the archives every once in a > while, and just could not bear to have Teena Marie go > down in the annals of history as a one-hit wonder. > > Aside from her talent and general fabulousness, > > --Michael Hey, no offense intended. I don't remember that much about Teena but damn, she could dance. Mack > > ===== > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > "[Naipaul] is devoutly read wherever literacy in English prevails, as well as in parts of America." > > --Gavin McNett, "The Black Sheep." http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2001/10/14/naipaul/index.html > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. > http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #504 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?