From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #501 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, October 21 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 501 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Songs with "Fuck" in the lyrics ["Kakki" ] Re: Press Release ["Kakki" ] Re: Grace Slick and Songs with "Fuck" in the lyrics [Matthew W Gardner ] Re: A memo to American Muslims - NJC [FredNow@aol.com] Re: NJC The Language of Women Festival 2001 (U.K.) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: What's playing on joni's cd player?... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re:NJC The Language of Women Festival 2001 (U.K.) [Gertus@aol.com] Re: Doctor's pills give you brand new ills (NJC) ["jlamadoo, home account] RE: Doctor's pills give you brand new ills (NJC) ["Garret" ] NJC, Bad Language ["jlamadoo, home account" ] Re: Songs with "Fuck" in the lyrics [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Doctor's pills give you brand new ills (NJC) ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: Embarassing Attractions [Bobsart48@aol.com] RE: Press Release ["Kate Bennett" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 12:34:38 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Songs with "Fuck" in the lyrics A friend of mine had gone and said Grace was a kick but I didn't hear all these details! Thanks for telling the story. Kakki >Speaking of Ms. Slick, did anyone catch her >reunion with the Jefferson Starship at a Long >Beach benefit for the victims of the September 11 >tragedy? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 13:07:53 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Press Release Bob wrote: > That's an awesome release, Kate...congratulations >in advance for all your hard work in putting the >event together! Fingers crossed that a certain >someone with straw hat & American Spirit > cigarette shows up! ;~) Kate, this sounds like a stunning night! I hope you record it! I wish I could be there but it may be too hard to get there on a Weds. night ;-( I'll see how my schedule goes. November 7th is Joni's birthday, too! When we saw Joni, Stephen asked her is she was going to (Joni's favorite desginer) Issye Miyake's (sp?) Harbourfront Tribute on November 6th. Joni said how much she wanted to be there because she loves him so much, but that her schedule would prevent her from attending. We suspect she will be in London by then. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 15:46:42 -0400 From: Matthew W Gardner Subject: Re: Grace Slick and Songs with "Fuck" in the lyrics It's not the best quality, but you can view the Grace reunion with Jefferson Starship at the JS website: http://jeffersonstarshipsf.com/video.htm Grace, as always, steals the show. If you were a JA or JS fan, this is well worth watching. You will find links for both wideband and dial-up connections. Matt Gardner Long Island, NY Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 15:11:21 EDT From: Marksa973@aol.com Subject: Re: Songs with "Fuck" in the lyrics Before the Airplane, Grace Slick sang with The Great Society and recorded "Father Bruce," a tribute to Lenny Bruce, which ends with a loud "FUCK!" There's a live version from 1985 or 1967 on an old Great Society/Grace Slick collection. Speaking of Ms. Slick, did anyone catch her reunion with the Jefferson Starship at a Long Beach benefit for the victims of the September 11 tragedy? Grace, who will be 62 this month, wandered out on stage disguised from head to toe in one of those horrible outfits that Afghani women are forced to wear. She shook her head at the loud musicians, displayed shock at the mini-skirt on the Starship's lead singer, checked out her daughter China Slick Kantner's boobs and then tore off the disguise, revealing an American flag covering her front and a sign on her back that read "Fuck Fear." She explained it all succinctly pointing to the robe and saying: "This is not about Islam; this is about oppression." Pointing to the American flag she said, "This is not about politics; this is about liberty." Then she joined in with Paul Kantner, Marty Balin and the rest of the band on "Wooden Ships" and "Volunteers," later welcoming some firefighters on the stage. White hair and all, it's good to know Grace is as outrageous as ever. In a message dated 10/20/2001 9:24:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Relayer211@aol.com writes: I've been wondering what the first song was that had the word "Fuck" in it. Before Pink Floyd's "Speak to me" there was Joni's "Woman of heart and mind" and before that was Jefferson Airplane's "We can be together".Were there any songs before that? >> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 16:33:31 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: nix on the anthrax - njc Also glad to hear it wasn't anthrax, Catherine ... but you know, I'm not that worried about anthrax ... it's hard to deliver in mass quantities, not contagious, fairly easy to treat, and usually not fatal. No, what I'm worried about is smallpox ... there is no cure, it's very contagious (easily spread by coughing, sneezing and other general contact), and fatal in many cases, permanently scarring in survivors. A terrorist could easily infect himself and then wander around infecting people, who would in turn infect others, who would ... you get the idea. Supposedly, remaining cultures exist in only two well-guarded locations in the world, but terrorism experts agree that other unauthorized cultures exist in Russia, North Korea, and possibly Iraq. Very scary. My ultimate terrorism fear, though, is the "unassuming" terrorist in a business suit, going to his job carrying a small nuke in a briefcase, sitting at his desk at the Sears Tower, for instance, and pressing the button. It is widely believed that the terrorists want to do this, are trying to do this, and one day just might. Have a nice day! - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 13:51:18 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: nix on the anthrax - njc > My ultimate terrorism fear, though, is the >"unassuming" terrorist in a business suit, going to >his job carrying a small nuke in a briefcase, sitting > at his desk at the Sears Tower, for instance, and >pressing the button. It is widely believed that the >terrorists want to do this, are trying to do this, > and one day just might. Uh, huh, Fred. I think they still are "suitcase sized" at this point. But did you hear about someone who was caught coming into Israel the other day with what was called a "backpack radiological device?" Not quite a nuke but a bomb that spreads radioactive material. Geez. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 16:52:11 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: A memo to American Muslims - NJC >No matter how much we condemn it, and point to the Quran and the Sunnah to argue >that Islam forbids the killing of innocent people, the fact remains that the >perpetrators of this crime against humanity have indicated that their >actions are sanctioned by Islamic values. "The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose." -William Shakespeare, poet and dramatist (1564-1616) - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 17:33:31 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC The Language of Women Festival 2001 (U.K.) Both Julie & Kiki have recorded Joni songs, Kiki of course with her great version of Carey, and Julie with an early version of BSN, that is on its way to me as we speak! Bob NP: Ani, "Sorry I Am" 8/13/96 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 17:47:37 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: What's playing on joni's cd player?... << Beside musicians that are her friends, what does Joni listen to when her home stereo's on? Love to know. >> Nuriel, from what I recall from listening to interviews, she listens mostly to jazz when she's painting late at night. Bob NP: Ben Folds, "Annie Waits" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 18:29:11 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re:NJC The Language of Women Festival 2001 (U.K.) Kevin, Many thanks for this tip. I don't live too far away so shall try to go. >>Full details at: http://www.chequermead.org.uk/artists/lang.htm (Don't go in through the main page - broken link).<< Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 19:55:22 -0400 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: Re: Doctor's pills give you brand new ills (NJC) I'm having a busy weekend but want to jump in with a quick (!) note about this thread. My hat is off to those who have been able to live life unmedicated. (Side note to Colin: I don't want to offend so please, Colin, take this as the positive comment it's meant to be: You are doing so well lately, that I'm happy for you. That you'be been able to do so well the past year without drugs is amazing. I remember the bad old days when some folks were posting hourly, around the clock for days at a time. Having recurring insomnia, I can identify with the agony of it.) I have tried the drug-free route over and over again and I do LOTS better with an anti-depressant. Two short years ago the available drugs had some very unpleasant side effects that played significantly in my abandonment of medication. I'll share this much in the hope that others with chronic depression with benefit: There are new drugs that don't have the unpleasant side effects. Take care, all. All the best, Lama ps- Best "medication" for short-term treatment for depression: JoniFest 2nd best medication: live music in general ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 01:30:01 +0100 From: "Garret" Subject: RE: Doctor's pills give you brand new ills (NJC) I'm a little behind on digests right now, so this topic may well have been put to rest already. I would just like to put in one or two thoughts on this. After the talk of "side effects" of drugs, i was reminded of a conversation i once had with a lecturer of mine, a clinical psychologist by trade. He said that our attitudes towards medication really should change. Firstly because many people seem to be given medication as a "qucik fix" solution- a quick fix for both patient and professional. While this may be quick, it certainly does not "fix" the underlying problems. He also made a very pertinent point as regards these "side effects". It would seem wiser, in some regards, to think of side effects as *other* effects of the drug. These may not be the intended effect, but their occurence can not be swept into what many of us would/could interpret as an unimportant bracket-"side effect". Consider for a moment the case of the drugs most commonly administered to individuals diagnosed with schizophrenia- chlorpromazine and clozapine. Perhaps if Heather were still knocking around the list, she could support my claim that these drugs have the effect of blocking dopamine activity. They are administered due to the belief that an excess of dopamine causes shizophrenia (or at least causes in part; there is indeed empirical evidence to support this with some, not huge, degree of confidence). These drugs *do* yield positive results, don't get me wrong...... they **do** lessen the schizophrenic characteristics that were previously exhibited. They aren't, however, without inherent problems- problems that are too often described away as "side effects". The above mentioned drugs have been shown to lead to short term parkinsomism. So, then anti-parkinsons drugs have to be administered, and this, i think, brings us back to one of the original/earlier points of this thread. Consistent long term use can lead to permanent damage of the nervous system, and result in tardive dyskinesia. The thing that hits me hardest is the fact that these drugs do not help in any way about 25% of those that they are given to. My point is that we need to see that while drugs can be, and are, helpful, they are (or rather should be) only ONE part of an overall treatment or intervention, and that doses better serve most individuals in small and short term doses, if at all needed. Mary said: > fads in psychology come and go. the 80's/early 90's fad was everything was >caused by psychological trauma. today it's everything is biological. the >ruth is somewhere in the middle between these extremes, plus other factors >too i'm sure (like unhappy marriage, poor job situation, lack of money, etc.) I agree with this sentiment. The most modern beliefs are *integrative* of all the theories taht have come before for the vast majority of what we can call the commonly occuring mental illnesses, including, for example, depression and shhizophrenia. This seems to make a lot of sense considering that there is a wealth of literature and statistics and case studies that will lend support to theories coming from points of view as diverse as the biological/genetic theories, cognitive theories, social theories and so on. Someone commented that mental illnesses are caused by physical abnormalities in the brain. I don't think that we know enough about either mental illnesses or the brain to be able to make a hard and fast statement of that kind. I would opt for the "on the fence" standpoint: perhaps physical abnormalities (including retarded chemical production) do play a role in the liklihood of developing a mental illness, but couldn't say that they are the sole cause. Someone also said that no amount of will and self determination will help people with mental illnesses. I can see arguements supporting this viewpoint, but it all comes down to what you are defining as "mental illness". For example, most of us would consider depression a mental illness, and i for one do believe cognitive and behaviour therapy's that stress this positive thinking can be immensely helpful in helping to deal with some forms of depression. I think (i stress the i think here) that Colin said that drugs merely "shove the feelings further down". I would qualify this with "sometimes". Other times, and i guess this is the intention, the drug helps people to cut out behaviour and/or thoughts that are impedeing their ability to *deal with the feelings*, if it is indeed feelings that need dealing with. I realise that i'm probably making very little sense because i'm talking in such generalities. To close with i'd like to mention that in order to come up with an intervention for a mental problem, or a psychological problem of any sort, a formulation must be made.. The factors to be considered are: the predisposing factors, this could include a genetic vulnerability; the precipitating factors, this could include some major event, or be more like family life cylce transitions; and then the maintaining factors, the things that keep the problem going. i hope that i didn't sound *too* didactic, for that was not my intention. i intended only to voice some thoughts on one or two issues of interest to me that arose in the course of the discussion. GARRET ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 20:07:55 -0400 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: RE: swearing NJC This is silly, but I've never hesitated to say something silly before.... sooooo...... In the lower income neighborhoods, it's an insult to shout: "You ain't shit." Conversely, it's a complement to say, "Lucinda Williams is the shit, man." And of course, George Carlin noted long ago that uhh, we normally associate sex with something pleasant, so why is it a pox on an ememy to wish, "F**k you, man!" I guess in a perfect world then, we would never have sex and "be" the shit?? hee hee Dosed up on antidepressants and LOVING IT, Lama ps- "Doctors pills give you brand-new will and the bills don't matter much in comparison." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 20:17:20 -0400 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: NJC, Bad Language I think I have a winner here. There's an old blues song that predates rock entirely called "Do Your Duty". Somewhere around here I have a cd transfer of a scratchy 78 wherein we hear Bessie Smith (I think) urging her man: "Daddy, when you're down on your luck, Give your lover your last f**k. Do your duty." Relayer: I've been wondering what the first song was that had the word "Fuck" in it. Before Pink Floyd's "Speak to me" there was Joni's "Woman of heart and mind" and before that was Jefferson Airplane's "We can be together".Were there any songs before that? Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 20:56:27 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Songs with "Fuck" in the lyrics In a message dated 10/20/01 2:46:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anima_rising@yahoo.ca writes: > What ARE the lyrics, apart from "Loo-eh, loo-eye, whoa > baby, we gotta go?" (at least that's what it sounds > like to me.) > > : Every night at 10, I lay her again. Fuck you, girl, all kinds of ways. (Can't remember this line) I felt my boner in her hair. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 20:00:35 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: Doctor's pills give you brand new ills (NJC) "someone commented" > Someone commented that mental illnesses are caused by physical abnormalities > in the brain. I don't think that we know enough about either mental > illnesses or the brain to be able to make a hard and fast statement of that > kind. I would opt for the "on the fence" standpoint: perhaps physical > abnormalities (including retarded chemical production) do play a role in the > liklihood of developing a mental illness, but couldn't say that they are the > sole cause. I never said they were the "sole" cause of mental illness. I was referring to the post that was advocating the complete disregard and disuse of drugs to treat mental illness, and as a matter of fact, as I understood it, a complete disuse of drugs of this kind in general. There has been extensive research done on mental illness and of course there are many different therapies to deal with it, INCLUDING drug therapy. A variety of therapeutic measures may be used. Among the kinds of therapy used are antipsychotic agents and psychotherapy, depending on the individual and the individual case. And of course there are many different causes of mental illness including environmental, brain abnormalities, etc. The drugs do work on the brain and the body to alleviate some of the symptoms, and used in conjunction, or without, other therapies are very beneficial. As far as what we know about the brain and mental illness, the research has been extensive and there is most certainly more to learn but much has been learned already, therefore the great strides medicine has made into the problems of mental illness. "someone also said" > Someone also said that no amount of will and self determination will help > people with mental illnesses. I can see arguements supporting this > viewpoint, but it all comes down to what you are defining as "mental > illness". For example, most of us would consider depression a mental > illness, and i for one do believe cognitive and behaviour therapy's that > stress this positive thinking can be immensely helpful in helping to deal > with some forms of depression. Of course psychotherapy, postive thinking, behavioral therapy, etc. are all beneficial in helping with depression. In the context of my earlier post I was referring to someone with severe mental illness. Of course there are people who are strong enough to overcome their problems by their will or therapy alone, or positive thinking alone, etc. Again, I was referring to someone who is not able to overcome these things without drugs. That was the entire point of my post. Some people are not able to do so and are not able to function in this world. They are at their last stop. Drugs can be beneficial. I never said there were not side effects. I never said they were for everyone, etc. Some, like my brother, and I am not trying to make my point stronger by placing someone close to me into the argument ,(as someone suggested) cannot be helped by therapy alone. He cannot live in this world by positive thinking and all the good intentions of the human race. The only thing that has brought him back and allowed him to return to reality are the drugs. People here can debate whether or not drugs are effective until the cows come home but I have seen it, with my brother, and with many others. In summation, drugs are beneficial to some, not to others, have side effects, sometimes dangerous, sometimes not; but they have a place and thank goodness, thank all the research and scientists who have brought them to us. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 18:11:42 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: VH1 to air the concert tonight for NYC (njc) Rose, Thanks for the heads-up - I'd heard about this but didn't know when it was going to be on because I never have a TV guide or watch TV much! I did read that McCartney's new song is very powerful. Kakki, thinking those kids in Toronto are still too in shock and bliss to report in yet ;-) > On Saturday, October 20 at 7 p.m. (ET/PT), VH1 >is proud to host the live broadcast of "http://click.vh1.com/Y9RA0612542F8DEE6A7D">The >Concert for New York City a five-hour benefit >concert and tribute to the victims of the World >Trade Center tragedy. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 14:32:42 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: VH1 to air the concert tonight for NYC (njc) Kakki wrote: > Thanks for the heads-up - I'd heard about this but didn't know when it was > going to be on because I never have a TV guide or watch TV much! I did read > that McCartney's new song is very powerful. > > Kakki, thinking those kids in Toronto are still too in shock and bliss to > report in yet ;-) Well, I wish they'd damn well hurry up! Some of us live our lives vicariously through this list, and need the facts NOW! Come on, 'fess up - who met Joni?! Put us out of our misery, for god's sake! Hell - impatient in NZ ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 21:32:42 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: VH1 to air the concert tonight for NYC (njc) In a message dated 10/20/01 9:07:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: > Kakki, thinking those kids in Toronto are still too in shock and bliss to > report in yet ;-) > Yeah, what's up with that? Is Steve with them? They must be doing the Ganja lines. NP: The Who @MSG live woo hoo rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 21:39:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Songs with "Fuck" in the lyrics - --- IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/20/01 2:46:01 PM Eastern > Daylight Time, > anima_rising@yahoo.ca writes: > > > > What ARE the lyrics, apart from "Loo-eh, loo-eye, > whoa > > baby, we gotta go?" (at least that's what it > sounds > > like to me.) > > > > : > > Every night at 10, I lay her again. > Fuck you, girl, all kinds of ways. > (Can't remember this line) > I felt my boner in her hair. > > You're kidding! How could anyone possibly HEAR that? It sounds like someone singing with a mouthful of stones! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 21:59:23 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject to Interpretation (was Re: IRA etal) NJC Hibill98 wrote: "While it may be that Hawaii AS A TERRITORY 'applied for statehood and was accepted as part of the US willfully' " It may be? In 1959, by the narrow voting margin of 94% to 6%, after the last in a long string of applications for statehood between 1919 and 1959 was finally approved by Congress. We might note that it is statistically 'unlikely' that the overwhelmaing majority of "Native Hawaiians" (who comprised about 15% of the population at that time, I believe) voted against. We might also note that the first application in 1919 was filed by Hawaii's delegate to Congress, one Jonah Kuhio Kalanianaole. "The kingdom of Hawaii and her Queen were overthrown in 1893 and annexed to the United States in 1898, led by a small group consisting of businessmen and descendants of missionaries, mostly American, with the assistance of American troops" Yes, very small. Led by 13 people. Her Queen apparently did not have the deepest support of the 100,000 or so 'Natives", judging from the fact that the overthrow was bloodless. "Sadly, the plight of the Native Hawaiians since that time is similar to that of other indigenous peoples (the various tribes of the American Indians and Native Alaskans, for example): decimation of the Native Hawaiian population,..." Well, are the indigenous ones the descendants of the Polynesians who were first there 2000 years ago, or the Tahitians who won control 1200 years later ? Or the Japanese and Chinese who came in the mid-1800's ? Anyway, I do not think the numbers have decreased since 1898 - over the period between then and 1959, the 'Native" population increased slightly, I believe (though I read there had been some decimation in the mid-1800's due to 'imported' disease). "and there IS indeed an 'ongoing secessionist movement.' .......Within the last twenty years or so, however, there has been a renaissance..... and a growing movement towards sovereignty. What direction that goes -- reparations, return of ceded lands, nation-within-a-nation status or outright secession and complete independence -- remains to be seen. For a more thorough discussion, http://www.hawaii-nation.org " Well, I did learn that there is a secessionist 'movement'. INDEED. What a website. No wonder the movement is so tiny even within the Native Hawaiian communtiy. A truly thorough (and balanced) discussion! Especially the petition to the United Nations (at whose recent Durban conference, Iran, Libya and Syria got to call the US a racist country that abuses human rights - - what a joke). Outright secession and complete independence --- ARE YOU KIDDING ? I certainly hope you are not holding your breath waiting for that history to be made. All of which begs my initial point, during which I objected to the use of an analogy which implied that the US/Hawaiian relationship is comparable to the Great Britain/ Northern Ireland relationship. I stand by my objection there. Despite the fact that I am totally unsympathetic to the IRA (and not overly sympathetic to its cause). "Okay, history lesson's over. Sorry to go on so long. Thought it was about time I started contributing, as I have learned SO much from you guys! But I should get back to the music, right?" Bill, I am impressed that you know so much that you have learned so little from "us guys". For my part, I was not trying to teach you anything (nor am I with the above post - I am just trying to help the other listers evaluate whether your history lesson was thorough and unbiased). I was simply replying to a post from Rob E. Bob Sartorius ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 23:31:35 EDT From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Mental illness (NJC) And now, to throw another monkey wrench into this discussion: what do you all think about forced or "assisted" treatment for those with severe mental illness such as schizophrenia and bipolar illness? My view is that these most severe illnesses are biological, although other factors can perhaps play a role in exacerbating them, and correct treatment is essential. Here's a link to a group called the Treatment Advocacy Center, which is controversial: http://www.psychlaws.org/ On the board of directors is E. Fuller Torrey, who has written extensively about schizophrenia. My opinion is that although abuses exist, this type of treatment can be necessary and even life saving in some cases. Torrey has spoken out condemning the tendency of shrinks to focus on the "worried well" who are a lucrative source of income and relatively easy to treat, while ignoring those with the most serious illnesses. I think that is something of an oversimplification, because severe depression and anxiety can be quite debilitating, but it's undeniable that society has in many cases abandoned the most seriously ill. The new generation of anti-psychotics: geodon, zyprexa, etc. are called "atypical" and are thought not to cause tardive dyskinesia, at least not as often any maybe not at all. It is commonly agreed that anti-psychotics can help with the "positive" symptoms such as hallucinations. They are less successful with the "negative" symptoms such as apathy and social withdrawal. When someone develops a relatively safe drug that combats negative symptoms, I think there will be a breakthrough in the quality of life for those with schizophrenia. I hope that happens soon. Both positive and negative symptoms are thought to be due to abnormalities of dopamine in the brain: positive caused by too much, negative by not enough. It's ironic that dopamine can be present in both excess and insufficient quantities in different parts of the brain, but that's the current theory as I understand it. I am not psychotic, although at a couple of highly stressful times I have experienced some vaguely psychotic symptoms. They are frightening. Fortunately I don't have to take any medication for them however. I used to live in fear that someday I'd have a real schizophrenic breakdown, but I've been reassured that at my advanced age of 33 it is highly unlikely. I feel very bad for people who are schizophrenic, because it involves tremendous suffering. Mary ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 23:49:36 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Songs with "Fuck" in the lyrics In a message dated 10/20/01 9:39:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anima_rising@yahoo.ca writes: > > > You're kidding! How could anyone possibly HEAR that? > It sounds like someone singing with a mouthful of > stones! > > But that's the only way they could get away with it in those days. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 00:08:14 -0400 From: Mags Subject: in this moment in this moment i will try to share an image or two..the feeling of electricity in the air...we speak with the people around us...when and how did you find Joni...what does she mean to you and why....oh we all have our "why I am connected to Joni stories". I love to hear them all.. . The lights go dim...a hush moves across the crowd like a magical, mystical fog rolling in .... and we know that there is a large group of people headed for the front of our side of the stage and suddenly, there she is. Joni. Cheers, applause, shouts, gasps....everyone focusing their energy and love upon her. What a moment for her. She is so very loved. It is obvious as the audience stands up and gives her a well deserved ovation which lasted for quite some time. I will touch ever so briefly upon the beginning of the evening for now with just a quick mention of the amazing and gifted Rebecca Jenkins who was absolutely brilliant .. she performed heart wrenching, soul gripping interpretations of Blue and Two Grey Rooms which made us cry..and Joni stood up at the end of Blue and gave Rebecca a very exuberant standing ovation of her own. if only I could take you there...let me try....... imagine....... ....Joni sitting on stage sharing stories ...she is absolutely beautiful, radian, magnificent.... Joni speaks to us in rivers. Her brilliant stream of consciousnesss talk talk and more talk when all of a sudden there is mention of Joni doing something and she gives us a choice....piano or the demo tapes....and Polifka, beside me hollers PIANO!!!!!!!!!! as did Stephen Epstein... and omggggggggg she stood up and walked toward a grand piano on the side of the stage right where Stephen, Ashara, Sal, Jimmy, Rick and Jim Johansen were sitting! I thought I would burst. Joni seemed a little shy or hesitant at first...she told us her piano chops were a bit rusty or something like that....and as we all sat there collectively holding our breath....already overwhelmed with her very presence....she walked over to the piano like she was going home to an old friend who had been patiently waiting for her, knowing that one day she would return. And return she did. Through the touch of Joni's hands, we were transformed. If I could only find the words...if you were there, you would understand how difficult it is to explain...unplanned... she created her shapes and colours which I am certain came from deep within her. Joni at the piano...something I thought I would never see...and a wonderful gift for Brian because it was so much a part of his heart's desire to see Joni play piano just one more time. That was so special for me, knowing that one of his dreams had come true. Joni's voice is in fine form. Incredible. Images of the bits and pieces that she sang are swirling around in my mind. The passion she exudes with each note..her whole body sings. Truly incredible. A moment in time. Thank you Joni, again and again. Because of you, Brian and I are. love and hugs to all with a promise for more. I still need to talk about the Thursday night lecture/video...the lecturer Rob Bowman was my music prof at York University in Toronto...a vibrant, incredibly passionate person whose warmth eminates in such a way that he takes time to listen as well as share his indepth knowledge of Joni. He has such a deep respect for Joni and her music and from what Jimmy told me, he went into such depth and expressed so much in such a short time. Wondering if we can get a hold of the tape that was running that night. I will try to reach Rob by email and let you all know. and the videos were incredible...I especially loved Two Grey Rooms. Tired again, still, and yet so filled with all the glorious images of Joni which we are holding close to our hearts. In this moment I know that this was one of the most precious, special evenings I have ever been a part of. always, Mags and Brian npimh: the voices of all of our wonderful list family gathered round the table at dinner tonight. - -- And this loving is a drawing close, a tuning in, an opening. Until one perfect moment; but how can it be expressed? A receiving, an enfolding as I cradle you in my arms. Within my heart, within my soul, You are my true love. --Lui Collins - --- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 00:32:21 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Embarassing Attractions Bob M wrote (a while back) "And I agree that Lakota is a much better song when it's freed from the slings and arrows of outrageous 80's production! ;~)" Good, I think it is a very artistic song ! But can you handle this embarrassing attraction (from a later thread) ? I like Dancing Clowns (makes me laugh) ;-) Anyway, congratulations on your "citation" in the bio. You got it the old-fashioned way. Bob S. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 22:09:29 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Press Release thanks ya'll for such wonderful support...i know we will have so much fun & your spirits will be SO much with us...maybe in a few years we will be ready for joni but for now its more about learning her songs & sharing with each other & whoever attends...the cool thing is that when i brought in the press release to the local arts paper the editor said he LOVES joni...so hopefully we will get some recognition on a wider scale...no matter what happens we will all enjoy listening to each other in a very nice venue...i definately will see if we can tape this thing...nothing like being both producer & performer...lots to hold together...lots to get together & remember...(like learning songs in 3 different tunings!) better find my ginko biloba ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #501 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?