From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #499 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, October 20 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 499 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Doctor's pills give you brand new ills (NJC) ["Kakki" ] njc - nix on the anthrax - njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: embarrassed fans NJC [HiBill ] Re: Doctor's pills give you brand new ills (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: embarrassed fans NJC ["Kakki" ] Re: embarrassed fans NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: njc - nix on the anthrax - njc ["hell" ] RE: Picture of Joni at the Walk of Fame ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: embarrassed fans NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: embarrassed fans NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] RE: embarrassed fans NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] omfg definitely joni content [Mags N Brei ] a place where you don't spit [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: swearing NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 18:59:32 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Doctor's pills give you brand new ills (NJC) Hi Hell > Well, I'm certainly no expert on depression or mental >illness, but I know my father could not have functioned >without medication (and I know he did try). He suffered >from serious depression for most of his adult life, and >even had electric shock treatment at one point, which >certainly didn't help - You are right and I did not mean to minimize that medicine for depression is literally a life-saver for many people. It's probably important for people to have a good doctor who is astute at monitoring the dosage and prescribing the appropriate drug. As for the electric shock treatment, I had thought that had been abadoned way back in the 1950s or something but then was suprised to learn that a colleg friend's father was receiving it here in the 1970s, too. Eesch - now there was a barbaric treatment. In a way, we can thank God that medicines came along to replace THAT idea. > It seems to be the great "cure-all" for anything that ails >us - pop a pill and you'll feel better - rather than trying to >treat the real cause of the problem, which may be >environmental, rather than physical. Yes - I've also know some people who were wrongly diagnosed with depression when what they really had was diabetes, bad hayfever, or not simply not enough hormones ;-) and that is why the Prozac wasn't helping at all! > Not such a bad idea! Apparently New Zealand was >voted the safest country to be in the world, right now! >Why doesn't everyone come visit!? I am not surprised New Zealand is looking more appealing than ever now. Careful what you wish for Hell!! ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 22:02:01 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Doctor's pills give you brand new ills (NJC) > Victor, > > I also am of both minds about drugs for depression, schizophrenia, OCD, etc. > I have known people whose lives would not be functional at all without them > and have known others whose lives were made much worse by them. I have a friend in Atlanta who is a brilliant songwriter. However, he suffers from paranoia schizophrenia and is in and out of the mental ward at the hospital. When he takes his medication, he is usually okay, but I think too often, people have given him acid and other drugs in which case he doesn't take his medication, which serves only to further screw his mind up. This has been going on for years. He is a very warm, genuine person and very caring, even in his madness. He played for many years, in an Atlanta band, Zen Dixie, along with my friend Mark Richard(wrote HFB). I see him occasionally these days. Lately he's been in the hospital alot. At this point, I think drugs are the only thing that keeps him from completely going mad. Even when he's telling some of the most absurd stories and conspiracy theories, he's so sincere, almost believable. Victor NP: Snakes and Braves, not good... Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 22:13:23 EDT From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Re: Doctor's pills give you brand new ills (NJC) Pills and mental illness - what a subject my thoughts (and i've got experience believe me email me off list if you want material to cure insomnia otherwise known as my journey thru the mental health system) - - fads in psychology come and go. the 80's/early 90's fad was everything was caused by psychological trauma. today it's everything is biological. the truth is somewhere in the middle between these extremes, plus other factors too i'm sure (like unhappy marriage, poor job situation, lack of money, etc.) - - people are individuals and 'mental illness' varies widely from garden-variety blues to severely incapacitating maladies. people always think they can generalize from their experience (or their friend, their relative, etc) - that is extremely hazardous. your 'answer' depends on your circumstances and the other person may be much more or less severely affected than you are. - - diagnoses are subject to fads and interpretation, like so many other things in life. also among the so-called experts diagnoses vary widely. i've had a number myself. this has made me start counting them. it's up to about 7 by now, if not more. after a while they start to lose their impact. - - race, class, and gender affect who gets diagnosed with what and it's important to recognize that the poor are both more likely to be traumatized and also underserved. otoh, if abuse happens in a well off family, the survivor is often accused of making it up. - - the psychiatric profession as a whole is long on self-proclaimed experts and short on good listeners. just a few thoughts. mary ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 19:21:34 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Doctor's pills give you brand new ills (NJC) Victor wrote: > I have a friend in Atlanta who is a brilliant songwriter. >However, he suffers from paranoia schizophrenia and is >in and out of the mental ward at the hospital. When he >takes his medication, he is usually okay, but I think > too often, people have given him acid and other drugs in >which case he doesn't take his medication, which serves >only to further screw his mind up. I also had a close songwriter friend in much the same situation - it was so heartbreaking. It would make me so angry, really furious, when his so-called "friends" would lay out the "other" kind of drugs for him. I think that is almost criminal. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 20:06:02 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Doctor's pills give you brand new ills (NJC) Hi Mary, > Pills and mental illness - what a subject Well, Joni started it! ;-) I think all of your points are very insightful. I certainly am more of an observer in this realm than someone who has been critically affected by it, although I have thought about it a lot for many years. The "experts" can't say it is all "this" or "that" and I wonder why they have often taken such a narrow view. One thing I've been told with regard to depression, and I would tend to agree with, is that a severe emotional trauma or event can sometimes shock a person's system to the point that it literally changes one's physiological chemistry, not always neccesarily in the brain but systemically. That's why a pill alone may not cure and why someone may also need some tender loving nurturing or counseling to regain their overall health and well-being. The emotional often cannot be divorced from the bio-chemical - one can affect the other. Thanks for your input. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 23:36:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: swearing NJC - --- Mike Pritchard wrote: > here in Spain/Catalunya they/we also use 'hostia'; > or 'hostia puta' for > emphasis. For a brit living in this Catholic culture > I was initially amazed at > how many people and young kids (9-15 yrs old) use > 'bad language' here, usually > with no negative reaction. I believe Hemingway's > favourite expression was 'I > spit in the milk of your whore of a grandmother'. > (Is this used in Argentina, > Wally?) My Mexican brother-in-law says something that sounds pretty much like that - I do hear the "puta madre" part, but I'm not sure what the first word is - sounds like "chinga" - the whole thing sounds to me like "chinga tu puta madre". I know the "puta madre" bit means "whore mother" - not sure about the "chinga" part. I guessed it was a slangy expression for something unpleasant! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 23:51:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: njc - nix on the anthrax - njc So, finally got the results of the test done on the sample powder/envelope removed from our office Tuesday. Preliminary tests are negative - no anthrax, no nothin' that can hurt people. However, they've decided they're going to do further testing because apparently there was a "threat" attached to this. When I asked the public health guy what this meant, he said he wasn't actually sure. I'm just speculating that maybe the letter inside the envelope (we hadn't opened it - but there was a white powdery stuff all over it and the rest of the mail in the same pouch) had a threat of some kind in it. Or maybe it was because a number of gov't offices had similar envelopes that day. So, as suspected, it seems the whole thing was a hoax. Or 99.99% sure a hoax. The rest of the testing is a 48-hr test but they have people working on the weeend and would call if they found anything bad. It is sometimes difficult trying to explain to staff that they have better odds of being hit by a car, but these are the times we're living in. I talked to my stepmother yesterday. she had just come back from a month-long trip/tour to England. She is from England originally but hadn't been back there for a few years - the last time was maybe 3-4 years ago, not long after she and my Dad married. Lily left for England the last week or so of September. She said a lot of people had bailed out following the events of Sept 11, but her feeling was, she wasn't going to let this stop her - if her number was up, then it was up. She also told me that when she was a young woman living in London during WW II, they didn't let the war prevent them from going about their lives - she said even if there was bombing going on, they'd still go out dancing. I like that. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 21:28:28 -0700 (PDT) From: HiBill Subject: Re: embarrassed fans NJC TimandMaryPowers@aol.com writes: > hello joni fans, > > I'm listening to John Denver right now. which makes me wonder: do you have any musical preferences about which you are *slightly* embarrassed? if you admitted you liked this musician, your friends would laugh? My guilty pleasures: Streisand circa the "Funny Girl" era -- how do I communicate to my fellow 12-year-old pals that I totally relate to this rather unique-looking Jewish girl who shows what can be accomplished through talent, ambition and sheer will? Karen Carpenter -- I was in high school when The Carpenters were popular, and boy, did I catch a lot of gas for that one! Loved her voice; only wished she could've rocked a little harder. (Or should I say, rocked at all?!?) 5th Dimension -- well, what can I say? At least I discovered Laura Nyro through them, so not a total waste ... And these days: If you look through my CDs, I think you'll find copies of, among others, Paula Abdul, Babyface, Michael Bolton, Celine, Mandy Patinkin ... and not all of them were birthday and/or Christmas gifts, either! Yikes! Okay, you can stop laughing now ... Bill Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 21:32:04 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Doctor's pills give you brand new ills (NJC) As for the electric shock treatment, I had thought > that had been abadoned way back in the 1950s or something but then was > suprised to learn that a colleg friend's father was receiving it here in the > 1970s, too. Eesch - now there was a barbaric treatment. In a way, we can > thank God that medicines came along to replace THAT idea. Well Kakki, my mother has been undergoing ECT for some time now. It is not the horrific ordeal that it once was. Patients are put under general anesthesia and given medication to minimize any spasms. My brother, sister-in-law, father & even Mom herself have all said that the treatments have helped her quite a lot. Last Christmas she was in the grip of a severe, deep depression. She would hardly respond when spoken to. Having a phone conversation with her was a one-sided affair. From what she sounds like on the phone now, there has been a significant improvement. So although I can't speak from first-hand knowledge, not having actually seen my mother for over a year now, I can say that my family tells me that ECT has helped her a lot. And Mom has told me that the treatments aren't bad at all. She sleeps for awhile when they're done and then doesn't remember anything about them. We're planning to get the family all together this Christmas. Just need to decide if we're gathering at my brother's in Omaha or at my folks in Iowa. Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 21:38:38 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Doctor's pills give you brand new ills (NJC) > - fads in psychology come and go. Reminds me of one of Lily Tomlin's old routines: 'I'm great, you're great, we're all great! Hi! This is Dr. Eileen Dacey, founder of Fundamental and Developmental psychology, also known as FAD.' Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 21:47:57 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: embarrassed fans NJC > My guilty pleasures: > Streisand circa the "Funny Girl" era -- how do I communicate to my fellow > 12-year-old pals that I totally relate to this rather unique-looking Jewish girl who > shows what can be accomplished through talent, ambition and sheer will? > > Karen Carpenter -- I was in high school when The Carpenters were popular, and boy, > did I catch a lot of gas for that one! Loved her voice; only wished she could've > rocked a little harder. (Or should I say, rocked at all?!?) > > 5th Dimension -- well, what can I say? At least I discovered Laura Nyro through > them, so not a total waste ... Hmmm... Sounds like our record collections in high school were very similar, Bill! I also was gaga for Karen Carpenter. And I also was quite a fan of the Fifth Dimension. Their versions of 'Stoned Soul Picnic' and 'Save the Country' along with Streisand's versions of 'Stoney End' and 'Time and Love' were my first exposures to Laura Nyro as well (not counting 'And When I Die by...was it Gary Puckett and the Union Gap? Somebody help me out here!) Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 21:57:56 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: embarrassed fans NJC > Hmmm... Sounds like our record collections in >high school were very similar, Bill! Yeah, what is so embarrassing? ;-) > I also was gaga for Karen Carpenter. And I also >was quite a fan of the Fifth Dimension. Their >versions of 'Stoned Soul Picnic' and 'Save > the Country' along with Streisand's versions of >'Stoney End' and 'Time and Love' were my first >exposures to Laura Nyro as well (not counting > 'And When I Die by...was it Gary Puckett and the Union Gap? Somebody help me out here!) Me too, exactly, with regard to the exposure to Laura. Don't know about Gary Puckett but I thought he was great, too! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 01:10:38 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: embarrassed fans NJC In a message dated 10/19/01 11:48:58 PM, mark.travis@gte.net writes: << 'And When I Die by...was it Gary Puckett and the Union Gap? Somebody help me out here!) >> It was Blood, Sweat and Tears, Mark. Do I win anything? --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 18:24:44 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: njc - nix on the anthrax - njc Catherine wrote: > So, finally got the results of the test done on the > sample powder/envelope removed from our office > Tuesday. Preliminary tests are negative - no anthrax, > no nothin' that can hurt people. Great news, Catherine, you must be feeling VERY relieved! > She also told me that when she was a young woman > living in London during WW II, they didn't let the war > prevent them from going about their lives - she said > even if there was bombing going on, they'd still go > out dancing. I like that. I like that attitude too. It was kind of how I felt a week or so after the WTC attacks (even though I'm a long way away). I just thought "I'm not going to let these bastards win - I'm going to carry on like I did before, as much as I can." I certainly have no qualms about flying anywhere - in fact, I think I feel safer now! It's just those looooong security delays that will annoy me (at the same time as being glad that they're there, of course)! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 02:52:24 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Picture of Joni at the Walk of Fame joni and atwood together!!!!! this is such a sweet picture! thank you, les! wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Les Irvin Enviado el: Viernes, 19 de Octubre de 2001 07:42 p.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Picture of Joni at the Walk of Fame Hurry while it lasts.... http://www.canoe.ca/JamIncludes/photo_of_day.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 23:02:27 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: embarrassed fans NJC > << 'And When I Die by...was it Gary Puckett and the Union Gap? Somebody help > me out here!) >> > > It was Blood, Sweat and Tears, Mark. Do I win anything? > > --Bob That's right! How did I come up with Gary Puckett and the Union Gap??! As for winning anything, uh, how about my undying love & affection? ;-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 03:08:38 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: embarrassed fans NJC karen carpenter was the love of my life when i was in high school. she and diana rigg as emma peel. what my friends couldn't understand was that i also loved yes, emerson lake & palmer and joni. and laura nyro and carole king and claude debussy and richard strauss. i had a carpenters t-shirt. my friends thought that it was an ultra sophisticated joke on my part, like how could wally have a carpenters t-shirt unless it's a joke. so in a perverse kind of way i ended up looking cool. but i was never embarrassed to be a karen fan. the opera stuff embarrassed me a bit, though. especially the wagner thing. some of my teachers thought it was morbid and that i perhaps should masturbate more. wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 23:20:41 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: embarrassed fans NJC > karen carpenter was the love of my life when i was in high school. she and > diana rigg as emma peel. Emma Peel! Oh she was the ultimate in cool! Loved her & loved the show! So witty and fun! Patrick McNee was the perfect match for the ultra-cool, ultra chic Ms. Rigg. Mark E. who is now pretty much a confirmed, die-hard RLJ fan, btw ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 03:23:49 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: embarrassed fans NJC oh mark! i always forget to tell you and the list. i hereby declare that i sang ''something cool'' [a rickie number] in honor of mark. wallyK Mark E. who is now pretty much a confirmed, die-hard RLJ fan, btw ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 23:40:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: omfg definitely joni content two thirty five a.m...cannot go to bed without saying something and yet I cannot find a way to articulate what it meant to us, to all of us who shared this incredible and very intimate evening celebrating the life of Joni. I felt like I was sitting in the livingroom with Joni... she was so relaxed and beautiful and obviously having the time of her life. Her voice is in fine form and her piano playing... yes you are reading that right...her piano playing... that's where the omfg comes in. She sat down at the piano and graced us with compositions from her heart and soul. and then came the demo tapes. okay, i think that's enough of a tease. i am certain that our roving reporters will tell all... and just wait until Janine tells her story!!! and Stephen... and Ashara... and jimmmmmmyyyyyy omfg.... love to all.... night, magsnbrei....together in hamilton. just like dorothy says. ;) p.s. Thanks Joni, for us. ===== I've got you to see me through, looking out for what I do Spreading sunshine from the skies, placing rainbows in my eyes Got you watching out for me, making sense of what I see When my world is wearing blue, I've got you to see me through . - ---by Eleanor McEvoy on her album Yola (2001) . Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 02:43:09 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: a place where you don't spit Here's a quotation from a news story about Joni's induction to Canada's Walk of Fame. "I'd like that little spot on the sidewalk to be a place where you don't spit," quipped singer-songwriter Joni Mitchell, during her thank-you speech at her induction ceremony for Canada's Walk of Fame in Toronto. You can read the whole story at: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/rolls/20011019/en/canada_honors_joni_1.html --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 03:55:07 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: swearing NJC mike, argentine bad language is so much less colorful than that of the rest of the spanish speaking world. i have heard spanish people say such things as ''me cago en dios/la hostia/la virgen'' [i shit on god/the host/the virgen], but i have never ever heard an argentine say anything like that. our most popular insults have to do with female relatives, for example: ''la concha de tu hermana/madre/abuela'', [you sister's/mother's/grandmother's cunt], ''la puta que te pario'' [the whore that gave you birth], and combinations. one of the most common ways to call someone an asshole is to say ''boludo'' or ''pelotudo''. it roughly means that your testicles are inordinately large. you can also use the feminine forms ''boluda/pelotuda'' to insult a woman, although it obviously doesn't make any sense at all!!! we also have a large menu of insults of the go-to-hell kind. however, we send people to parts of their female relatives's bodies. e.g.: ''andate a la concha de tu madre'' [go to your mother's cunt]. we also use ''andate a la mierda'' [go to (where the) shit (is)]. they are nonsensical still highly insulting. the forms are fixed and you must be careful when you create your own combinations because there's a thin line between insult and pure nonsense. for example you never say ''go to your father's cock'' but you do say ''go to the cock'' [''andate al carajo'']. another way to call someone a moron is to say ''sos un forro'' [you are a condom]. as you can see we simply don't know how to insult someone with style and imagination. our bad language is very surrealistic. wallyK ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #499 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?