From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #497 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, October 19 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 497 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Doctor's pills give you brand new ills (SJC) [colin ] RE: JMDL Digest V2001 #496 ["Kate Bennett" ] Inno di Mameli [] Re: Ryan Adams - NJC ["Paul Castle" ] swearing NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] Subject to Interpretation ["Mike Pritchard" ] R: Italian (NJC) [] Re: Ryan Adams (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Joni Potpourri ["J. R. Mills" ] NJC Re: Ryan Adams - VLJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Subject: Anne's CD [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Macy Grey alert (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: My personal setlist (wishlist) for the upcoming orchestral Project. [] Re: was JM Biography, now Covers Collection and Jonifest [SCJoniGuy@aol.c] The Tribute to Joni ( Thursday night lecture) [FMYFL@aol.com] Joni in VF [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: The Tribute to Joni ( Thursday night lecture) [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Joni in VF [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: IRA (NJC) [] Huh? (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: The Tribute to Joni ( Thursday night lecture) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Anne's CD [colin ] Re: Joni in VF [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Doctor's pills give you brand new ills (SJC) ["Donna J. Binkley" ] RE: where I'm coming from NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] Re: London's November Swan Song vljc ["Jamie Zubairi" ] embarrassed fans NJC [TimandMaryPowers@aol.com] Re: embarrassed fans NJC [colin ] Re: Joni Potpourri [Rusty10113@aol.com] Re: embarrassed fans NJC [jan ] Re: Joni in VF [JRMCo1@aol.com] The "Real" Deal about Nuclear, Bio, and Chem Attacks (long but good info) NJC ["Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Doctor's pills give you brand new ills (SJC) Hi Sherelle-good for you! I too would rather deal with my ups and downs myself and I do, fairly well. Okay, I am lucky in that my highs no longer send me crazy crazy. And my lows are no longer so dark as to incite suicide. Years of therapy paid off. Although I am hugely disappointed that the damned illness is still with me, it is now no where near as extreme. So the therpay did work-cleared awya the shit I wa scarrying, mostly, and thus I don;t have that added burden to fuel the mood swings. Unfortunately, you are right about other's attitudes. At best they are patronising and never see you as a real whole person. in discussions one is never taken seriously. For if you disagree with someone, it's 'well, he isn;t quite right is he?' At worst it is downright discrimination. Mental illness is still hugely discrimainated against, and acceptably so in our societies. Fear being the rooot of course. It doesn't help that tv and film often portray us as dangerous! Although i would have preferred not to have this thing, it has taught me much and it has enhanced my world view and my understanding of people. I tend to see things differently. yes, this sets me at odds with others but that is their problem. my different view shakes their world and they don't like it. The same can be said of my world of abuse when a child-yes I would rather not have had that-it would be great to have a family and a loving one at that. But that wasn't to be. It too has brought me much opportunity and I wouldn't be who I am today if I hadn't experienced all I have. However, I do not think any of this 'meant to be'. It just was and there was nothing I could about it. The worst aspect of it all, which still affects me today, is the doubting of my own thinking. I was always told that black was white or white was black or that my thoughts and doubts and questions were Satan's way of leading me astray, that it was Satan who put those thoughts in my mind.Thus I spent most of my life afraid and in excruiating doubt. I could not trust my own thinking, my own perceptions. Thus I was easily abused outside of the family as well. So people were able to do really bad things and I wouldn't see that and just think I was bad and it was my fault, I deserved it. I was lucky in that wehn I met my therapist my wal came tumbling down immediately-I trusted him straight away. Thru this trust of him I was able to start to trust myself. It did have it's drawbacks! For the first time in my life I felt rage, real anger, because now I knew what had been done to me and that it wasn't my fault! That was very hard to deal with. I also beagn to feel all sorts of other things, feelings I had long ago buried. I had learned as achild to 'shut down' and not feel anything. Thus when i wa sbeing hurt, I gave no reaction and felt nothing. unfortuantely those feelings stay with you and have to be felt one day. That day came for me and it was the most teryfying time of my life. Even today, I sometimes wish I could 'shut down' but I have leanred other methods of dealing with feelings. One thing I still do tho is 'disassociate'. i.e in situations I find diffiuclt, I go into a dream like state, shut down completely. Soemtimes this is okay but at other times it isn't because it leaves me exposed to danger and unable to defend myself. It does make me good in situations where others panic tho! The major side effect of feeling th bad stuff is I get to feel the good stuff too! bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 01:25:38 -0700 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: Re: JM Biography I haven't received my copy yet, even though Amazon.uk say it was "dispatched on October 10, 2001 via Royal mail." I wonder what's up with that? I hope I don't read the book in its entirety through excerpts here on the JMDL before I get my copy. I guess I'll busy myself reading the autobiography of Quincy Delightt Jones, _Q_, whilst I wait. Oooh, Diana Krall just came on "Late Night with Conan O'Brien." She's doing "I Cried a River for You." Sweet! Gotta Go. Bye. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 01:34:55 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2001 #496 Hell said, "Every time I read the drunken ramblings of Smurph, Alison, etc. I just about die laughing!" OMG, me too...i wrote about my first impression- claudia & all singing beautifully on the front porch (just like that photo)...well my last moment at ashara's was spent gasping for air as alison & smurph were composing their work...i laughed for days... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:35:37 +0200 From: Subject: Inno di Mameli Inno di MameliHallo Steve, I'll send you the words of italian anthem. = Angela invia un saluto agli amici americani della Joni-list. Fratelli d'Italia di Goffredo Mameli musica di Michele Novaro =20 Fratelli d'Italia, l'Italia s'=E8 desta, dell'elmo di Scipio s'=E8 cinta la testa. Dov'=E8 la vittoria? Le porga la chioma, che schiava di Roma Iddio la cre=F2. =20 Stringiamoci a coorte, siam pronti alla morte. Siam pronti alla morte, l'Italia chiam=F2. Stringiamoci a coorte, siam pronti alla morte. Siam pronti alla morte, l'Italia chiam=F2, s=EC! =20 Noi fummo da secoli calpesti, derisi, perch=E9 non siam popoli, perch=E9 siam divisi. Raccolgaci un'unica bandiera, una speme: di fonderci insieme gi=E0 l'ora suon=F2. =20 Uniamoci, uniamoci, l'unione e l'amore rivelano ai popoli le vie del Signore. Giuriamo far libero il suolo natio: uniti, per Dio, chi vincer ci pu=F2? Trascrizione a cura di: Luca Sambucci (Luca.Sambucci@student.unisg.ch)=20 Edizione HTML a cura di:=20 Riccardo.Scateni@crs4.it=20 Letteratura Italiana Home Page=20 [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of icon.gif] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:25:16 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: Ryan Adams - NJC Brenda brenda@killinggoliath.com wrote: > Ryan Adams, former leader of now defunct, alt-country posterchildren > Whiskeytown, has a new release out titled "Gold." Thanks for the review, Brenda - I had just been thinking I must check this out on a listening post - earlier this week I found a website run by US radio DJ Steve Scott, listing various roots (folk blues and beyond) music charts, and had noticed that his album 'Gold' (Lost Highway) is currently topping both the Gavin and CMJ Triple A charts. see http://www.hootholler.com/charts.html Richard Gillmann's Top 60 folkdj airplay charts are also always worth a read if you're on the lookout for new rootsy and/or singer songwriter albums. Here are the top three for September: 1: "New Favorite," Alison Krauss And Union Station (65) 2: "Every Single Day," Lucy Kaplansky (61) 3: "Time (The Revelator) ," Gillian Welch (52) all the best PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:55:15 +0200 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: swearing NJC Catherine wrote: >>It's kind of funny how the "swear words" in Quebec French all relate to church things - things like "Tabarnac'!" (Tabernacle); "Sacrament!" (same word in English) "Hostie!" (which means "host" as in Holy communion wafers)<< here in Spain/Catalunya they/we also use 'hostia'; or 'hostia puta' for emphasis. For a brit living in this Catholic culture I was initially amazed at how many people and young kids (9-15 yrs old) use 'bad language' here, usually with no negative reaction. I believe Hemingway's favourite expression was 'I spit in the milk of your whore of a grandmother'. (Is this used in Argentina, Wally?) My personal favourite was some graffiti (graffito?) in Barcelona which translates as 'I shit on Franco's skull'. Wasn't it Madeleine Albright who spoke of 'cojones'.? mike in bcn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:01:44 +0200 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Subject to Interpretation This is sent in the spirit of adding information to something already mentioned. Not to agree with a viewpoint or statement, not to contest a viewpoint or statement, simply to add light. This remark goes for my interventions on other topics too. Of course there will be times when I offer my own opinions but this will not always be the case. Usually my point is to widen the debate without my personal viewpoint being important. I will expand on this later and especially in relation to Ireland. Bill said: >>The kingdom of Hawaii and her Queen were overthrown in 1893 and annexed to the United States in 1898, led by a small group consisting of businessmen and descendants of missionaries, mostly American, with the assistance of American troops.<< Here's a quote from the life of General Smedley D. Butler, cited in Eduardo Galeano's "Open Veins of Latin America", which in turn gives the source as Leo Huberman 'Man's Wordly Goods' (NY: Monthly Review Press, 1952, p.265) "I spent 33 years and 4 months in active service as a member of our country's most agile military force- the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from a second lieutenant to major-general. And during that period I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street, and for the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism. Thus I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank to collect revenues in. and I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras 'right' for American fruit companies in 1903." mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:52:56 +0200 From: Subject: R: Italian (NJC) - -----Messaggio Originale----- Da: Steve Dulson A: Data invio: giovedl 18 ottobre 2001 16.37 Oggetto: Italian (NJC) > Knowing that we have some Italians on the list - can anyone send > me the words to the Italian national anthem?? Thanks in advance! I'll resend the lyrics of italian anthem. Ciao. > -- > ######################################################## > Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com > "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com > "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ Inno di MameliFratelli d'Italia di Goffredo Mameli musica di Michele Novaro Fratelli d'Italia, l'Italia s'h desta, dell'elmo di Scipio s'h cinta la testa. Dov'h la vittoria? Le porga la chioma, che schiava di Roma Iddio la crer. Stringiamoci a coorte, siam pronti alla morte. Siam pronti alla morte, l'Italia chiamr. Stringiamoci a coorte, siam pronti alla morte. Siam pronti alla morte, l'Italia chiamr, sl! Noi fummo da secoli calpesti, derisi, perchi non siam popoli, perchi siam divisi. Raccolgaci un'unica bandiera, una speme: di fonderci insieme gi` l'ora suonr. Uniamoci, uniamoci, l'unione e l'amore rivelano ai popoli le vie del Signore. Giuriamo far libero il suolo natio: uniti, per Dio, chi vincer ci pur? Trascrizione a cura di: Luca Sambucci (Luca.Sambucci@student.unisg.ch) Edizione HTML a cura di: Riccardo.Scateni@crs4.it Letteratura Italiana Home Page ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:48:03 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: Ryan Adams (NJC) And strangely Ryan Adams is all over the UK press today following his Shedherd's Bush Empire gig: - "Adams excels at putting across powerful sentiments in a nofuss, straight-forward manner' (Guardian p22) [Ryan Adams] "gives misery a good name" (Independent p27) "Most fans left the venue convinced that they had been in the presence of greatness." (Mail p53) And apparently he's been dating Beth Orton! Oooer! PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 05:30:46 -0700 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: Joni Potpourri Bon Voyage to all JMDLers traveling to Toronto, Canada (Oh Canada!) for the Harbourfront Joni Tribute! Like Cinderella, I wish I were going to the ball. Maybe someone will take video of Joni unveiling her star on the Canadian Walk of Fame (noon today, in front of the Royal Alexandra Theatre, 260 King St. W., Toronto) for those of us who aren't so blessed as to be able to be there. Photos, too, please. Plenty of Photos. :-) Here's a little hodge-podge of JC snippets from the media to snack on, gang: John Kelly will be doing his harolded Joni tribute at Fez in New York City this Saturday night: FEZ UNDER TIME CAFE. John Kelly's Shiny Hot Nights: More Songs of Joni Mitchell, VaVa Voom Room, late show, Saturday, 380 Lafayette St., NYC 212-533-2680. A funny from the Boston Globe re: the recent Vanity Fair cover picturing Joni among others: "It's always peculiar to see a dozen or so musicians from different eras and genres, most of them cover-worthy by themselves, all gathered together for the fold-out front of Vanity Fair's Music Issue. The star wattage is blinding, the posing is painfully precise, and you can't help but wonder about the long day of the shoot, with Beck mingling with Missy "Misdemeanor" Elliott while David Bowie makes sure the pancake reaches the bottom of his cleavage. You just know the chain-smoking Joni Mitchell flicked an ash or two at Jewel, one of the sort of early-Joni imitators whom she has so openly scorned. And standing on the sidelines would be Emmylou Harris, with her cowpoke jeans and her fabulous gray mane." From the Las Vegas Review-Journal review of a 10/14 James Taylor concert at Mandalay Bay Events Center, with content for Victor and colin: "There's been talk that Taylor's Las Vegas visit came at the end of his final tour. We'll see. He's only 53. Whatever the case, Taylor wiped his brow (was he crying or just sweating?) at the end of the night and said, 'Take care of yourselves and one another, and try to stay out of trouble.' That's good advice. Some of Taylor's friends and peers in the excellent 1970s genre of sensitive singer-songwriting have not always stayed that course. Carole King, who was the songwriting queen, has been gone too long, though she has a new Gap ad on TV. Carly Simon descended into making smarmy movie soundtrack songs that win Oscars. Nick Drake, the king of sorrow, killed himself after three albums, the bastard. Jim Croce, dead. Harry Chapin, dead. Cat Stevens, dead to the American scene. Judy Collins, who knows? Joni Mitchell, well, she was always too daring for this category, really." That's all, folks! Have a great weekend, everyone. Looking forward to reports from the North. - -Julius np: Clouds ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:09:41 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Ryan Adams - VLJC Thanks for the review, Brenda...I've been holding out on that one, despite the good reviews all around and despite liking Whiskeytown, but you just pushed me over the fence. Plus, I've been denying myself! After all, I haven't gotten any new music since...yesterday! :~) Bob NP: 3 Mustaphas 3 - Shika Shika (Thanks, Tyler!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:20:00 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: Anne's CD << Voice mail for Anne: 864-233-7584 >> Thanks, Jim...and if you've had difficulties, please try again. I've turned the phone ringer off for the next couple days, and will leave the recorder on, so feel free to call ANYTIME!! The phone won't ring and you won't wake anybody up... The real challenge will be to keep my son from turning the recorder off so he can play his computer games! :~) Bob NP: Loudon Wainwright III, "Housework" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:27:02 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Macy Grey alert (NJC) She also has a part in the film "Training Day", which I saw this week and was very pleasantly surprised with. Really had a twisting, turning plot. Everyone talks about Denzel but Ethan Hawke is the guy who really shows some range in this one. Denzel is pretty much a bastard from start to finish. The film also features nice bits from Dr. Dre & Snoop Dogg, who show a lot of talent as well. Bob NP: Ennio Morricone, a song with a very long Italian title! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:32:38 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: My personal setlist (wishlist) for the upcoming orchestral Project. << Judgement of the Moon andStars (Ludwig's Tune)>> Imo, she's already recorded THIS one with the proper orchestration! :~) << The Last Time I Saw Richard>> I think an orchestra would overpower the intimacy of this one. << Refuge of the Roads The Dawntreader Shadows and Light (With the Master Chorale) Impossible Dreamer Hejira Woodstock Cactus Tree Let the Wind Carry Me Love>> I'd love to hear ALL of these with some nice orchestral augmentation. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:36:51 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: was JM Biography, now Covers Collection and Jonifest << With 25+ CDs, there's one hundred people already! Any thoughts from anyone else? Bob? - it's your baby, after all! >> Well, I've got the labels covered...I LOVE the idea of the wood box to store them in. I would prefer to have 4-5 people work on the cover artwork, etc so there could be some consistency with the design and fonts, etc. But I'm open to suggestions. The good news is that the collection won't be "finalized" til summer of '02, so we have time to "tawk"! ;~) Bob NP: Harry Partch, "The Dreamer That Remains" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:44:46 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: The Tribute to Joni ( Thursday night lecture) Last night Coyote Rick and I attended the lecture on Joni's music given by Professor Bowman.( sorry I can't remember his first name) Mags also drove all the way from Hamilton to join us, which was quite a delight. Dr. Bowman did an excellent job of explaining the evolution of Joni's music. I wish I could have had a music appreciation teacher in college that was as interesting and enthusiastic as Dr. Bowman. He didn't tell us anything that most of us already knew regarding the musical periods of Joni's life. On the list we might discuss Joni's "electronic" or "pop" periods when someone starts a thread on one of Joni's albums. We can also go to Wally/Jim's page to learn a great deal about Joni's life. What was so wonderful about last night was that Dr. Bowman did this in 90 minutes using samples of all of her CD's. For example he would be talking how Joni would started using her voice as an instrument. He would play a few bars from "Car on a Hill" and point out where she would use this technique. Like I said, any diehard Joni fan would know all this, but it's great when you can discuss Joni's music in a "live" situation. It was a fascinating experience, and Dr. Bowman knows his Joni music!!! The lecture was followed by a 75 minute compilation of Joni videos and interviews. We had seen most of these before, but it was wonderful to view them on the big screen. It was another GREAT Joni evening. BTW, we found out that Tuesday night's performance of the "Tribute in Song" WAS recorded. The tape has to be sent to the participating artists, and I'm sure a lot of red tape is involved, but maybe one day we'll all get a chance to hear that wonderful evening. Time to get ready for the unveiling of "Joni's star" at noon. Hopefully we'll get some good photos. Wish us luck! Jimmy (and Coyote Rick) in Toronto...........I love the Canadians ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:53:30 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Joni in VF Thanks to Laura for posting the URL for that Joni pic! My issue arrived yesterday, and I enjoyed looking at while listening to a certain JMDL'er singing & playing the autoharp. A couple of notes: 1. GREAT pic of Tom Waits at his studio piano inside, and a nice Ani pic & write-up too. 2. A second small pic of Joni & Emmylou Harris inside, as well as this text about Siquomb: " Poet, composer, painter - Joni Mitchell started out 37 years ago as a high soprano with an acoustic guitar. But, as she would be the first to tell you, she is no folksinger. A complex songwriter and imaginative guitarist, she has produced an infuential, remarkable body of work that includes 21 albums, among them collaborations with Wayne Shorter and Charles Mingus; she has also had a retrospective of her paintings in her native Saskatoon, won five Grammy awards, and received a 1997 induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame that she refused to attend. A chain-smoker who rails at the dimished standards of today's pop culture, Mitchell is a wicked mimic and says that reading Nietzsche makes her smile. Her next project: two albums of her own songs with a symphony orchestra. At our cover shoot, when a nearly breathless Maxwell told her how much her music meant to his life, she stared at him for a minute, smiled, and said "Well then, give me a hug." Fashion note: in the photo she wears a blouse by Roberto Cavalli and Jeans by The Gap. Bob NP: XTC, "Harvest Festival" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:56:58 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: The Tribute to Joni ( Thursday night lecture) In a message dated 10/19/01 9:46:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FMYFL@aol.com writes: > Time to get ready for the unveiling of "Joni's star" at noon. Hopefully > we'll get some good photos. Wish us luck! > > Jimmy & Rick, Thanks for taking the time to share all of what's been going on with us. Here's hoping and wishing you guys get some great photos. Many hugs and much love, Rose in NJ rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:00:50 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in VF In a message dated 10/19/01 9:56:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > At our cover shoot, when a nearly breathless > Maxwell told her how much her music meant to his life, she stared at him > for > a minute, smiled, and said "Well then, give me a hug." > > Fashion note: in the photo she wears a blouse by Roberto Cavalli and Jeans > by > The Gap. > > I love it!!!! She looks damn good now, doesn't she though? Rose in NJ rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 15:21:02 +0100 From: Subject: Re: IRA (NJC) Mike wrote: Rob continued >>One example of an Irish-American who openly supported the IRA was Gene Kelly. He was proud of making regular donations and saw them as freedom fighters. << >>I think this would also go for John Ford and probably John Huston as well. Quoting from memory, don't sue me.<< No need to worry Mike, dead men don't sue :) But to be serious for a moment, this is new to me, and I don't think it's fair to say that these men supported murder without making reference to some source. A quote from an interview, a line from a biography, tv show or documentary. (Speaking of tv some of my favourite Parkinsons were interviews with Gene Kelly and John Huston.) I will accept any shred of evidence that these men as you say "openly" supported the IRA. I'm not disagreeing with you, just puzzled. >>The point I was trying to make was the fact that the two Cardinals visited Doherty makes it a newsworthy item, <<< Yes I agree it might have been wiser if they had sent one of their minions.. But maybe they wanted to highlight an injustice, as they saw it, by bringing public opinion to bear. If I was wrongly accused of murder I would want a visit from the Pope if it would help. BTW I'm interested why you don't you think NI is as british as Surrey, Glasgow, Liverpool etc etc Thanks for the discussion Mike, Kakki, Colin and others.. Philip np Court And Spark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 08:07:56 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Huh? (NJC) Pat wrote: >3. does colin et. all snap on the recently returned steve dulson for bopping >his posts with the full print outs attached? I don't understand this. if I am posting inappropriately, please explain. - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:11:31 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The Tribute to Joni ( Thursday night lecture) Jimmy, Thanks for the great updates - you guys rock and rule! I'm already getting psyched about the recording...man, am I a major covers slut or WHAT? ;~) Bob NP: Ani, "Out of Range" live ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 16:25:23 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Anne's CD Well I made my call. i only Anee can fathom what i was saying as I am thick with cold right now! My own fault-i was baoting last week that I have not had a cold or flu since moving to the country! Now this one has come with chills and headcahes and sweats and has lasted 10 days so far! And there I was thinking my 1gm of C and a garlic pill a day was keeping it away! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:13:18 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in VF << I love it!!!! She looks damn good now, doesn't she though? >> The coolest thing about her "look" is that it remains elegant, even when she's casual, and like her, there's nothing phony about it. Some of the other older music stars in the mag are still trying to look like teenagers, which is embarrassing. Joni looks her age in a GOOD way! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:23:37 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: Doctor's pills give you brand new ills (SJC) Dear Colin & Sherelle, My heart goes out to you both, as i read your posts this morning i became a little teary eyed because i could relate in my own way. My support to you both on doing whatever it takes to be strong again and cope with life. Colin, abusers always make you feel like it's your fault, like you being there just makes them do cruel things. That's a pant load. It is they who have a problem, NOT YOU. Keep remembering that and congratulations on your new strength, may it continue to grow. Love Donna - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of colin Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 3:10 AM To: RobSher50@aol.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Doctor's pills give you brand new ills (SJC) Hi Sherelle-good for you! I too would rather deal with my ups and downs myself and I do, fairly well. Okay, I am lucky in that my highs no longer send me crazy crazy. And my lows are no longer so dark as to incite suicide. Years of therapy paid off. Although I am hugely disappointed that the damned illness is still with me, it is now no where near as extreme. So the therpay did work-cleared awya the shit I wa scarrying, mostly, and thus I don;t have that added burden to fuel the mood swings. Unfortunately, you are right about other's attitudes. At best they are patronising and never see you as a real whole person. in discussions one is never taken seriously. For if you disagree with someone, it's 'well, he isn;t quite right is he?' At worst it is downright discrimination. Mental illness is still hugely discrimainated against, and acceptably so in our societies. Fear being the rooot of course. It doesn't help that tv and film often portray us as dangerous! Although i would have preferred not to have this thing, it has taught me much and it has enhanced my world view and my understanding of people. I tend to see things differently. yes, this sets me at odds with others but that is their problem. my different view shakes their world and they don't like it. The same can be said of my world of abuse when a child-yes I would rather not have had that-it would be great to have a family and a loving one at that. But that wasn't to be. It too has brought me much opportunity and I wouldn't be who I am today if I hadn't experienced all I have. However, I do not think any of this 'meant to be'. It just was and there was nothing I could about it. The worst aspect of it all, which still affects me today, is the doubting of my own thinking. I was always told that black was white or white was black or that my thoughts and doubts and questions were Satan's way of leading me astray, that it was Satan who put those thoughts in my mind.Thus I spent most of my life afraid and in excruiating doubt. I could not trust my own thinking, my own perceptions. Thus I was easily abused outside of the family as well. So people were able to do really bad things and I wouldn't see that and just think I was bad and it was my fault, I deserved it. I was lucky in that wehn I met my therapist my wal came tumbling down immediately-I trusted him straight away. Thru this trust of him I was able to start to trust myself. It did have it's drawbacks! For the first time in my life I felt rage, real anger, because now I knew what had been done to me and that it wasn't my fault! That was very hard to deal with. I also beagn to feel all sorts of other things, feelings I had long ago buried. I had learned as achild to 'shut down' and not feel anything. Thus when i wa sbeing hurt, I gave no reaction and felt nothing. unfortuantely those feelings stay with you and have to be felt one day. That day came for me and it was the most teryfying time of my life. Even today, I sometimes wish I could 'shut down' but I have leanred other methods of dealing with feelings. One thing I still do tho is 'disassociate'. i.e in situations I find diffiuclt, I go into a dream like state, shut down completely. Soemtimes this is okay but at other times it isn't because it leaves me exposed to danger and unable to defend myself. It does make me good in situations where others panic tho! The major side effect of feeling th bad stuff is I get to feel the good stuff too! bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:29:15 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: NJC Sorry people!! I forgot to put a NJC tag on that last one!!! db - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of colin Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 3:10 AM To: RobSher50@aol.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Doctor's pills give you brand new ills (SJC) Hi Sherelle-good for you! I too would rather deal with my ups and downs myself and I do, fairly well. Okay, I am lucky in that my highs no longer send me crazy crazy. And my lows are no longer so dark as to incite suicide. Years of therapy paid off. Although I am hugely disappointed that the damned illness is still with me, it is now no where near as extreme. So the therpay did work-cleared awya the shit I wa scarrying, mostly, and thus I don;t have that added burden to fuel the mood swings. Unfortunately, you are right about other's attitudes. At best they are patronising and never see you as a real whole person. in discussions one is never taken seriously. For if you disagree with someone, it's 'well, he isn;t quite right is he?' At worst it is downright discrimination. Mental illness is still hugely discrimainated against, and acceptably so in our societies. Fear being the rooot of course. It doesn't help that tv and film often portray us as dangerous! Although i would have preferred not to have this thing, it has taught me much and it has enhanced my world view and my understanding of people. I tend to see things differently. yes, this sets me at odds with others but that is their problem. my different view shakes their world and they don't like it. The same can be said of my world of abuse when a child-yes I would rather not have had that-it would be great to have a family and a loving one at that. But that wasn't to be. It too has brought me much opportunity and I wouldn't be who I am today if I hadn't experienced all I have. However, I do not think any of this 'meant to be'. It just was and there was nothing I could about it. The worst aspect of it all, which still affects me today, is the doubting of my own thinking. I was always told that black was white or white was black or that my thoughts and doubts and questions were Satan's way of leading me astray, that it was Satan who put those thoughts in my mind.Thus I spent most of my life afraid and in excruiating doubt. I could not trust my own thinking, my own perceptions. Thus I was easily abused outside of the family as well. So people were able to do really bad things and I wouldn't see that and just think I was bad and it was my fault, I deserved it. I was lucky in that wehn I met my therapist my wal came tumbling down immediately-I trusted him straight away. Thru this trust of him I was able to start to trust myself. It did have it's drawbacks! For the first time in my life I felt rage, real anger, because now I knew what had been done to me and that it wasn't my fault! That was very hard to deal with. I also beagn to feel all sorts of other things, feelings I had long ago buried. I had learned as achild to 'shut down' and not feel anything. Thus when i wa sbeing hurt, I gave no reaction and felt nothing. unfortuantely those feelings stay with you and have to be felt one day. That day came for me and it was the most teryfying time of my life. Even today, I sometimes wish I could 'shut down' but I have leanred other methods of dealing with feelings. One thing I still do tho is 'disassociate'. i.e in situations I find diffiuclt, I go into a dream like state, shut down completely. Soemtimes this is okay but at other times it isn't because it leaves me exposed to danger and unable to defend myself. It does make me good in situations where others panic tho! The major side effect of feeling th bad stuff is I get to feel the good stuff too! bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:34:43 +0200 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: RE: where I'm coming from NJC >>Well, maybe then you should be more straight out with your feelings or exactly where you stand from the beginning so I would not have to second guess the many comments you have directed towards me (Kakki). Not quite sure where you have been coming from in all this but that's cool.<< My posts have usually been in response to other matters opened by other listers and my intention generally is to submit material to provide more information on the matter under discussion. Sometimes I agree with the sentiment and say why, or I disagree with someone and say why. I wish to further and widen the argument or throw more light on it, not particularly to say where I stand on a particular issue in every case. It's not really about me, it's about the issue. For what it's worth, here's a clarification of where I'm coming from. I am against tyranny wherever it is and against whoever is responsible for it. Regardless of whether it is my country, your country, their country or whoever's. I am against the appalling treatment of Irish people historically in the USA and in the UK, including in the Six Counties / Northern Ireland. This does not mean I hate US or UK citizens. I am against the racist behaviour of the Spanish police and some members of the public but I love living here. I could leave but I don't. I refuse to blame the entire population of a country for the acts and policies of its government. There is a large Moslem community here in Catalunya and in many parts of it female circumcision is practiced. I am against this barbaric practice but it doesn't make me hate Moslems in general. I was against the policies of Thatcher and John Major in the 80s and 90s in the UK and left there partly for that reason. I return to visit my many friends and family but don't hate the people there. How could I? Kubrick, I think, stated that the big nations have always acted like gangsters and the little nations like prostitutes. I am against both forms of behaviour but that's the way of the world. Britain in the 80s managed to act like both at the same time; no mean feat. If I agree with anti-american comment this doesn't mean that I am anti-american in general. I believe I am not. If it appears that I adopt an anti-american stand on more occasions than a pro-american stand then that would suggest to me that the matters under discussion found me on one side rather than the other. If the matters had been different I might have made more pro- than anti- statements. If the dollar were not so high and the peseta so low I would spend more time in the US. I found it an admirable place and have never had a cross word with anyone while visiting. I have friends in San Francisco, Athens (yes, Victor, 'your' Athens), Chicago and New York. Some of my family live in Rome, NY state. I would like to visit my friends in Ontario too, but I will have to wait for better times, financially speaking. I hate the fact that the IRA, the UVF, the UFF and all the other paramilitary forces in Ireland are killing civilians and each other. I love to go to Ireland though, and had I not been born in Wales I would prefer to have been born in Ireland. I find the Irish people that I have met the finest, most agreeable people in the world, bar none. I detest the kind of barbaric violence visited on thousands of people in the recent attacks on the USA. I sympathise with all those affected, although I could not say that I understand what you're going through. How could I? I want to provoke debate, not antagonise listers. I want to provide light, not heat. I want to condemn the wrongs, regardless of who commits them. I want to congratulate fine deeds, regardless of who performs them. I want to hear other people's opinions and if I have to drag this out of people by 'provocative' postings, then I will do so, always without viciousness or insults. There are many things (and many people) I disagree with on this list but I hold my tongue more than I release it. This does NOT refer to kakki, mack, don rowe or anyone else who has been critical of my posts. I am thinking of different people altogether, I swear. Most of all I wish to make it clear that we should all, including myself, be careful about judging the particular as if it were general. If I make a stupid remark it does not mean I am stupid, just that one remark was stupid. If I make a brilliant, incisive comment, I may equally have moments of gross stupidity. If I support one act or opinion of an individual or organisation or government it does not mean I support that person or organisation or government in all other aspects. If I condemn one act or opinion of an individual or organisation or government it does not mean I condemn that person or organisation or government in all other aspects. That's probably about as much sermonising that anyone needs, so I'll stop here. mike. Maybe it's a little late now to comment on a remark of mack's which mentioned me, but I'll risk it. He said (something like) that he disagreed with practically everything I wrote but would never want to stop me writing. He was kind enough to say that he felt that he was a better person because of what he learned. I feel the same. I learn a lot from you guys and I really appreciate what you do and say, even when I don't agree with you all, or when my posts cause people to react. I enjoy your company and wouldn't know what to do without it. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2014 17:03:26 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: London's November Swan Song vljc While I agree with most of the above would take a chunk out of your purse...not sure if I remember Shakin Stevens on any Joni album to warrant me going. I mean Shakin Stevens!??!?!?!?! Just pulling your leg! From Jamie Zoob, also a London lurker.... - ----- Original Message ----- From: Preet To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 2:32 AM Subject: London's November Swan Song > 09 Nov Michael Brecker Union Chapel #15 > 10 Nov Wayne Shorter Royal Festival Hall #25 > 19 Nov Herbie Hancock 19th Forum #20 > 22 Nov Shakin' Stevens Pizza Express SW1 #3.50 > > Curse the London Jazz Festival. With a realistically disappointing chance of > seeing Joan on stage, gosh it's gonna be a dear month! > Now to book those tickets ... > > Preet Dhanoa > preetd@bigfoot.com > NP: Whoa Nelly > > [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 18:05:32 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: where I'm coming from NJC what an excellent post Mike. It is such a pity one cannot disagree with someone without them feeling hurt or put down regardless of the care taken with language. Of course we choose whther or not we are hurt. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:56:39 EDT From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: embarrassed fans NJC hello joni fans, I'm listening to John Denver right now. which makes me wonder: do you have any musical preferences about which you are *slightly* embarrassed? if you admitted you liked this musician, your friends would laugh? I grew up listening to Paul Simon, who was *never* popular with my age group, for example. NP: John Denver, the Eagle and the Hawk don't laugh, I like him! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 18:23:45 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: embarrassed fans NJC When I was teen, my music, Joni and Carly, was definately not IN with the rest of the teens at school/college. so what? Yes, for while I pretended to be into Black Sabbath and Deep Purple or some other male rockband but soon thought'oh stuff you, I like what i like'. Mind you I did hide my love of ABBA! Music snobbery is soooooo stupid and it still exists amongst the grown ups! Why, if you read eveery mail here, you might just come across it here too..... TimandMaryPowers@aol.com wrote: > hello joni fans, > > I'm listening to John Denver right now. which makes me wonder: do you have any musical preferences about which you are *slightly* embarrassed? if you admitted you liked this musician, your friends would laugh? I grew up listening to Paul Simon, who was *never* popular with my age group, for example. > > NP: John Denver, the Eagle and the Hawk > don't laugh, I like him! - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 13:26:06 EDT From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Potpourri just a note on john kelly's show... just calledfor info., and it says the Saturday show is at 8 pm... not the late show... they suggest getting there at 7 pm to get a good seat.. I saw John in the East Village recently and he's terrific, as many of you already know! Mitch ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:30:22 -0700 From: jan Subject: Re: embarrassed fans NJC I've never been embarrassed by any of my musical likes, 'cuz I know whatever *I'm* listening to NOW will be what others will be listening to LATER. Yes, I know it's lonely always being first, but such is the price for hard wired coolness. - -jan NP Buddy Greco Does Techno (so you guys will know what you'll be buying 6 months from now) :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 14:24:56 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in VF Bob quoted: "...At our cover shoot, when a nearly breathless Maxwell told her how much her music meant to his life, she stared at him for a minute, smiled, and said "Well then, give me a hug." Awwww. How sweet is that? Thanks for posting this, Bob. I'm going to see Maxwell in a few days. Just one degree of separation from a Joni hug. I'm getting closer and closer... I've got tickets to see Etta James next Friday night as part of the San Francisco Jazz Festival, too. I'm glad she's not still dead. :-) - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:51:54 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: The "Real" Deal about Nuclear, Bio, and Chem Attacks (long but good info) NJC A friend just sent this to me & I felt it was worth passing on: The "Real" Deal about Nuclear, Bio, and Chem Attacks Since the media has decided to scare everyone with predictions of chemical, biological, or nuclear warfare on our turf I decided to write a paper and keep things in their proper perspective. I am a retired military weapons, munitions, and training expert. Lesson number one: In the mid 1990's there were a series of nerve gas attacks on crowded Japanese subway stations. Given perfect conditions for an attack less than 10% of the people there were injured (the injured were better in a few hours) and only one percent of the injured died. 60 Minutes once had a fellow telling us that one drop of nerve gas could kill a thousand people, well he didn't tell you the thousand dead people per drop was theoretical. Drill Sergeants exaggerate how terrible this stuff was to keep the recruits awake in class (I know this because I was a Drill Sergeant too). Forget everything you've ever seen on TV, in the movies, or read in a novel about this stuff, it was all a lie (read this sentence again out loud!)! These weapons are about terror, if you remain calm, you will probably not die. This is far less scary than the media and their "Experts," make it sound. Chemical weapons are categorized as Nerve, Blood, Blister, and Incapacitating agents Contrary to the hype of reporters and politicians they are not weapons of mass destruction they are "Area denial," and terror weapons that don't destroy anything. When you leave the area you almost always leave the risk. That's the difference; you can leave the area and the risk; soldiers may have to stay put and sit through it and that's why they need all that spiffy gear. These are not gasses, they are vapors and/or air borne particles. The agent must be delivered in sufficient quantity to kill/injure, and that defines when/how it's used. Every day we have a morning and evening inversion where "stuff," suspended in the air gets pushed down. This inversion is why allergies (pollen) and air pollution are worst at these times of the day. So, a chemical attack will have it's best effect an hour of so either side of sunrise/sunset. Also, being vapors and airborne particles they are heavier than air so they will seek low places like ditches, basements and underground garages. This stuff won't work when it's freezing, it doesn't last when it's hot, and wind spreads it too thin too fast. They've got to get this stuff on you, or, get you to inhale it for it to work. They also have to get the concentration of chemicals high enough to kill or wound you. Too little and it's nothing, too much and it's wasted. What I hope you've gathered by this point is that a chemical weapons attack that kills a lot of people is incredibly hard to do with military grade agents and equipment so you can imagine how hard it will be for terrorists. The more you know about this stuff the more you realize how hard it is to use. We'll start by talking about nerve agents. You have these in your house, plain old bug killer (like Raid) is nerve agent. All nerve agents work the same way; they are cholinesterase inhibitors that mess up the signals your nervous system uses to make your body function. It can harm you if you get it on your skin but it works best if they can get you to inhale it. If you don't die in the first minute and you can leave the area you're probably gonna live. The military's antidote for all nerve agents is atropine and pralidoxime chloride. Neither one of these does anything to cure the nerve agent, they send your body into overdrive to keep you alive for five minutes, after that the agent is used up. Your best protection is fresh air and staying calm. Listed below are the symptoms for nerve agent poisoning. Sudden headache, Dimness of vision (someone you're looking at will have pinpointed pupils), Runny nose, Excessive saliva or drooling, Difficulty breathing, Tightness in chest, Nausea, Stomach cramps, Twitching of exposed skin where a liquid just got on you. If you are in public and you start experiencing these symptoms, first ask yourself, did anything out of the ordinary just happen, a loud pop, did someone spray something on the crowd? Are other people getting sick too? Is there an odor of new mown hay, green corn, something fruity, or camphor where it shouldn't be? If the answer is yes, then calmly (if you panic you breathe faster and inhale more air/poison) leave the area and head up wind, or, outside. Fresh air is the best "right now antidote". If you have a blob of liquid that looks like molasses or Kayro syrup on you; blot it or scrape it off and away from yourself with anything disposable. This stuff works based on your body weight, what a crop duster uses to kill bugs won't hurt you unless you stand there and breathe it in real deep, then lick the residue off the ground for while. Remember they have to do all the work, they have to get the concentration up and keep it up for several minutes while all you have to do is quit getting it on you/quit breathing it by putting space between you and the attack. Blood agents are cyanide or arsine which effect your blood's ability to provide oxygen to your tissue. The scenario for attack would be the same as nerve agent. Look for a pop or someone splashing/spraying something and folks around there getting woozy/falling down. The telltale smells are bitter almonds or garlic where it shouldn't be. The symptoms are blue lips, blue under the fingernails, rapid breathing. The military's antidote is amyl nitride and just like nerve agent antidote it just keeps your body working for five minutes till the toxins are used up. Fresh air is the your best individual chance. Blister agents (distilled mustard) are so nasty that nobody wants to even handle it let alone use it. It's almost impossible to handle safely and may have delayed effect of up to 12 hours. The attack scenario is also limited to the things you'd see from other chemicals. If you do get large, painful blisters for no apparent reason, don't pop them, if you must, don't let the liquid from the blister get on any other area, the stuff just keeps on spreading. It's just as likely to harm the user as the target. Soap, water, sunshine, and fresh air are this stuff's enemy. Bottom line on chemical weapons (it's the same if they use industrial chemical spills); they are intended to make you panic, to terrorize you, to herd you like sheep to the wolves. If there is an attack, leave the area and go upwind, or to the sides of the wind stream. They have to get the stuff to you, and on you. You're more likely to be hurt by a drunk driver on any given day than be hurt by one of these attacks. Your odds get better if you leave the area. Soap, water, time, and fresh air really deal this stuff a knock_out_punch. Don't let fear of an isolated attack rule your life. The odds are really on your side. Nuclear bombs. These are the only weapons of mass destruction on earth. The effects of a nuclear bomb are heat, blast, EMP, and radiation. If you see a bright flash of light like the sun, where the sun isn't, fall to the ground! The heat will be over a second. Then there will be two blast waves, one out going, and one on it's way back. Don't stand up to see what happened after the first wave; anything that's going to happen will have happened in two full minutes. These will be low yield devices and will not level whole cities. If you live through the heat, blast, and initial burst of radiation, you'll probably live for a very very long time. Radiation will not create fifty foot tall women, or giant ants and grass hoppers the size of tanks. These will be at the most 1 kiloton bombs; that's the equivalent of 1,000 tons of TNT. Here's the real deal, flying debris and radiation will kill a lot of exposed (not all!) people within a half mile of the blast. Under perfect conditions this is about a half mile circle of death and destruction, but, when it's done it's done. EMP stands for Electro Magnetic Pulse and it will fry every electronic device for a good distance, it's impossible to say what and how far but probably not over a couple of miles from ground zero is a good guess. Cars, cell phones, computers, ATMs, you name it, all will be out of order. There are lots of kinds of radiation, you only need to worry about three, the others you have lived with for years. You need to worry about "Ionizing radiation," these are little sub atomic particles that go whizzing along at the speed of light. They hit individual cells in your body, kill the nucleus and keep on going. That's how you get radiation poisoning, you have so many dead cells in your body that the decaying cells poison you. It's the same as people getting radiation treatments for cancer, only a bigger area gets radiated. The good news is you don't have to just sit there and take it, and there's lots you can do rather than panic. First; your skin will stop alpha particles, a page of a news paper or your clothing will stop beta particles, you just gotta try and avoid inhaling dust that's contaminated with atoms that are emitting these things and you'll be generally safe from them. Gamma rays are particles that travel like rays (quantum physics makes my brain hurt) and they create the same damage as alpha and beta particles only they keep going and kill lots of cells as they go all the way through your body. It takes a lot to stop these things, lots of dense material; on the other hand it takes a lot of this to kill you. Your defense is as always to not panic. Basic hygiene and normal preparation are your friends. All canned or frozen food is safe to eat. The radiation poisoning will not effect plants so fruits and vegetables are OK if there's no dust on em (rinse em off if there is). If you don't have running water and you need to collect rain water or use water from wherever, just let it sit for thirty minutes and skim off the water gently from the top. The dust with the bad stuff in it will settle and the remaining water can be used for the toilet which will still work if you have a bucket of water to pour in the tank. Finally there's biological warfare. There's not much to cover here. Basic personal hygiene and sanitation will take you further than a million doctors. Wash your hands often, don't share drinks, food, sloppy kisses, etc., ... with strangers. Keep your garbage can with a tight lid on it, don't have standing water (like old buckets, ditches, or kiddie pools) laying around to allow mosquitoes breeding room. This stuff is carried by vectors, that is bugs, rodents, and contaminated material. If biological warfare is so easy as the TV makes it sound, why has Saddam Hussein spent twenty years, millions, and millions of dollars trying to get it right? If you're clean of person and home, you eat well and are active you're gonna live. Overall preparation for any terrorist attack is the same as you'd take for a big storm. If you want a gas mask, fine, go get one. I know this stuff and I'm not getting one and I told my Mom not to bother with one either (how's that for confidence). We have a week's worth of cash, several days worth of canned goods and plenty of soap and water. We don't leave stuff out to attract bugs or rodents so we don't have them. These people can't conceive a nation this big with this much resources. These weapons are made to cause panic, terror, and to demoralize. If we don't run around like sheep they won't use this stuff after they find out it's no fun. The government is going nuts over this stuff because they have to protect every inch of America. You've only gotta protect yourself, and by doing that, you help the country. Finally, there are millions of caveats to everything I wrote here and you can think up specific scenarios where my advice isn't the best. This letter is supposed to help the greatest number of people under the greatest number of situations. If you don't like my work, don't nit pick, just sit down and explain chemical, nuclear, and biological warfare in a document around three pages long yourself. This is how we the people of the United States can rob these people of their most desired goal, your terror. SFC Red Thomas (Ret) Armor Master Gunner Mesa, AZ Unlimited reproduction and distribution is authorized. Just give me credit for my work, and, keep in context. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #497 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?