From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #494 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, October 18 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 494 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Etta James died yesterday - NJC ["Kakki" ] Re: George Schultz (njc) ["Kakki" ] Re: Etta James died yesterday - NJC [Vince Lavieri ] harborfront tribute [bbBear ] Re: Etta Jones (not James) died yesterday - NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] Topsfield fest 2001 NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Subject: Re: JM Biography ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: IRA (NJC) ["Mike Pritchard" ] The Gallery [Leslie Mixon ] Re: IRA (NJC) ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:35:46 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Etta James died yesterday - NJC Brenda - a little Joni content here - Jones was known for the definitive version of "Don't Go To Strangers." I remember digging through some of my dad's old 78s and finding her name and thinking "Etta James isn't THAT old!" ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:39:33 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: George Schultz (njc) Julius writes: > He's a big San Francisco socialite these days. He had >a huge wedding a few years back that was the talk of >the town. I still run into him when I go visit friends at >Bechtel and he's always at Stanford basketball games. >Wealth and privilege is the best facelift, I guess. :-) That is too much. Geez, I thought he was in his late 80s 20 years ago! > I'll respond anyway: I never said that. But for those >who are "opportunistic," most any excuse will do. Whew, thanks for clarifying. I certainly hope the current situation does not result in the same abuses along those lines as happened during Vietnam. Kakki Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 23:36:44 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Etta James died yesterday - NJC Well, then it was Etta Jones that I heard talked about on NPR this morning, because they played Don't Go to Strangers, and the piece was truncated for fund raising pitches and I heard Etta and assumed it was James and then was just plain confused. Happy Etta James still with us, and what I said when I thought she wasn't, I direct towards Etta Jones. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 23:43:10 -0400 From: bbBear Subject: harborfront tribute I'm behind on reading digests, so forgive if this has already been covered... Joni Mitchell: A Tribute in Song Over the past 25 years Joni Mitchell has touched countless lives with her brilliant compositions and performances. For one night only, some of Toronto's best will thank her in the best way possible, by providing fresh interpretations of her songs. Aaron Davis, the man behind the legendary band Manteca, is the Musical Director for this special evening. A renowned keyboardist, arranger and composer, Davis has created a special band for this evening composed of drummer Mark Kelso, bassist George Koller, woodwinds player John Johnson and, of course, himself on keyboards. Special guest vocalists for the tribute include Jane Siberry, Suzie Vinnick, David Sereda, Marc Jordan, Martina Sorbara, Rebecca Jenkins, Tuku and Ember Swift. Tuesday, October 16, 8 pm Premiere Dance Theatre $25 http://www.worldleadersfestival.com/events/specialevents/performances.html some of you may also be interested in the gabriel tribute that also features jane siberry. barbara np: me'shell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:08:20 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Etta Jones (not James) died yesterday - NJC > http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusic/oct17_jones-ap.html This link says that Etta *Jones* died yesterday, not Etta *James*. Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 00:22:49 -0400 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: JM Biography Absolutely Bob! Congrats! You are truly the master of the covers and we do appreciate you!! Which reminds me, I still need to get my act together and complete my covers collection! Hope you still need this; snagged a cover of Both Sides Now by Chad Mitchell. (Bell label I believe/sealed) It hasn't arrived yet, but if you want it, when I get it, you got it! Best, Gary np: Nathan La Franeer - Joni 2nd Fret Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 10/17/01 9:15:31 PM, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: > > << i'm so happy that bob muller is getting some recognition for his labor of > love. congratulations, dear friend!!!!!! >> > > A big 'ME TOO' here. I am impressed with all the work you do for the covers > project, Bob. I think it's a very important archival achievement that will > one day be given the recognition it deserves (beyond your admirers here, of > course). > > Which reminds me, wasn't there a plan a few months ago to box the set and > send it to you-know-who? I think she would love -- and hate, of course! -- > many of the individual artists' efforts. In any case, I'm sure she would > treasure it. So if there's anything i can do to make it happen, let me know. > > --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:16:55 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Topsfield fest 2001 NJC brian wrote "Thanks for making me fall for the picture of Claudia strumming on the front porch." I LOVE that picture!!!!!!!!!...that's the very first glimpse we got of what was to be...as we pulled up to Ashara's on Friday afternoon...but first we heard them: Yael, Claudia & Les...beautiful strings & heavenly voices...what a welcoming....sigh... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:16:57 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Re: JM Biography HOORAY for Bob! That is so exciting to be in Joni's biography!!!!! woohoo!!!!! ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 00:44:13 +0200 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re: IRA (NJC) Mike wrote: >>What surprises me is that NORAID is unknown to people of Irish descent, like Kakki, and others. It is widely known in Britain and is hardly a secret in many places in the USA.<< Kakki responded: >>And I'm totally baffled that you would be surprised that I didn't know about NORAID. Do you think American people with some Irish background are somehow born with this knowledge?<< Mike says Without getting too (Groucho) Marxist about it, I would say that I am surprised that you are baffled that I would be surprised. No, I don't believe that anyone from any background is born with any knowledge. But I do believe that the well-educated population of the world's most modern industrial country lives in a well-informed society with a huge media presence and this would allow them (not force them) to have access to this type of information. I simply expressed surprise that these facts are unknown to many, and it's especially surprising, to me, that if we throw an Irish ethnic background into the equation, then we have a possible reason for looking into these areas. I stress 'possible'. I'm not suggesting people of Irish backgrounds must, or should, look into political matters, only that they would appear to have an extra interest (because of their ethnic background) in Irish matters. Presidents Reagan, Carter and Clinton all made trips to Ireland to find their roots, and thousands, if not millions of US citizens go over to Ireland for the same purpose. One of the key factors, for better or worse, in 'keeping alive' the idea of the 'ould country' is the oral transmission of the old stories. In the case of the Irish, I imagine that these would often refer to exile, famine, struggle and discrimination. Remember the scene in 'Michael Collins' where Liam Neeson points to the old family cottage, saying something like "That's where it all started, listening to stories round the old turf fire in Skibbereen". I quote from memory, forgive the errors. I find it difficult to believe that these 'old stories' are not still in circulation. Kakki said >> The way NORAID itself portrays itself (on the internet) is exactly as a humanitarian organization for oppressed families in Northern Ireland. They say nothing about being a channel for the IRA.<< Given that the IRA is now regarded as a terrorist organisation in the USA do you really expect NORAID to say it is a channel for raising funds for the IRA to buy weapons? Does the CIA's website say that they are undermining democratic governments? Does the French Government's website talk about blowing up the Rainbow Warrior in Auckland Harbour? Of course not. Kakki asked: >> You cannot imagine that some sympathetic people of Irish descent in the U.S. would give to them (NORAID) thinking that they were just trying to help poor children?<< Of course I can imagine this. I am absolutely sure that the majority of these people DO give for this reason. I can also imagine other people giving money knowing where it's really going. In the Basque Country here in Spain there are bars where the tips don't go to the barmen, but instead go into a bomb-shaped jar which then goes to ETA. In these circles it is very clear that humanitarian aid is not the real destination of the money. I strongly suspect (to put it mildly) that there are some people in the USA who are equally knowing about where NORAID money is destined to end up. Kakki said: >>I don't think you can expect Americans to solve or understand the problems over there very easily.<< I don't think anyone anywhere can understand the problems very easily, and I don't particularly want or expect the Americans to solve the problem, although anything that would help bring a lasting peace to Ireland is welcome. I think Clinton's visit was positive in this respect. Rob Ettridge said: >>NORAID is fairly well known in the UK. It is definitely a source of anti-American feeling, especially whenever there is a bomb or a bombscare. This is not to say that myself or the majority of the British public necessarily share this view. But I do know people that I would consider to be anti-American and the NORAID issue is definitely fuel to that fire.<< I agree with Rob's comments Rob continued >>One example of an Irish-American who openly supported the IRA was Gene Kelly. He was proud of making regular donations and saw them as freedom fighters. << I think this would also go for John Ford and probably John Huston as well. Quoting from memory, don't sue me. Mike wrote: >> The US govt has on occasions refused to extradite people wanted by the British govt for terrorist activities, accepting the argument that the person wanted by the Brits had been engaged in a 'legitimate conflict'. Judge Sprizzo, delivered this verdict in 1986 in New York,<< Philip said that: >>Judges make decisions based on law. Are you saying the judge should have disregarded the law and handed the man over just because Britain said so?<< NO. Philip said that: >>Britain's appalling record on human rights may have been a factor the judge had to consider (Britain was found guilty by an international court of torturing innocent citizens in Northern Ireland).<< I agree totally. Philip said that: >>Britain's disgraced legal system may also not have helped their case. The 80's was the time when the world became aware of innocent Northern Irish citizens banged up in British prisons for crimes they did not commit, based on confessions they were beaten into making.<< I agree totally. Mike said >> Doherty was visited in prison by Cardinal O'Connor of NYC and the Irish Cardinal O'Fiach.<< Philip said >>Not sure what point you are making here. Are you saying that prisoners should not be allowed visits? In this case a prisoner who had not been convicted of any crime.<< The point I was trying to make was the fact that the two Cardinals visited Doherty makes it a newsworthy item, one which I imagine people in NYC, and especially Irish-American people, would see on their TVs and read in their papers. Of course prisoners who have not been convicted should be allowed visitors, but can you think of other such cases where such high-profile people visited an accused terrorist? When was the last time any Cardinal went to visit anyone in prison? Did any Cardinals vist Timothy McVeigh? Would any high-ranking church official visit Bin Laden in prison? Philip said that: >>Terrorism and violence are abhorrent as far as I'm concerned.<< I agree. Philip said that: >>Northern Ireland is as legitimately and legally a part of Britain as Surrey.<< I don't agree on this one, but it's cool. mike in barcelona np Pogues, Birmingham Six ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:31:05 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: The Gallery Dear Mr. Lahm: And singing "The Gallery" to your accompaniment was a true honor and a warm arrangement. Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:47:29 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: IRA (NJC) Mike wrote: >But I do believe that the well-educated population of the >world's most modern industrial country lives in a well->informed society with a huge media presence and this >would allow them (not force them) to have access to > this type of information. I simply expressed surprise that >these facts are unknown to many, and it's especially >surprising, to me, that if we throw an Irish ethnic >background into the equation, then we have a possible >reason for looking into these areas. I think what I am hearing here is that something that is such a huge and crucial issue in the U.K. should of course be equally crucial and well-disseminated in the U.S. It's just not. That may seem unfair because I'm sure the U.K. hears and knows more about U.S. problems and issues than we in the U.S. hear or think about U.K. issues. That's probably what tends to make us seem national-centric. We no doubt are, but not always or neccessarily ecause we are only concerned about our own little world. Look at the size and diversity of the U.S. You can even look to some extent as the 50 states as 50 little countries. So much happens in the U.S. on so many regional and national levels that our interests and concerns are both on overload and also tend to disperse in importance according to location. Add to that our own personal problems and concerns and you can see how being knowledgeable about the situation in Northen Ireland can easily take a back seat. There are very few of pure Irish background across the U.S. There are concentrations of pure Irish in NY, MA and some other places in the east, but outside of that, the majority are mutts who consider themselves first as "Americans." Here is another, more current analogy. We just got attacked by an organization that has been threatening us and bombing us on a smaller scale for a number of years now. You can bet the large majority of Americans did not know anything about Bin Laden or the situation in Afghanistan before Sept. 11th. If we didn't even know about one of the worst enemies we've ever known, it is not hard to imagine that we don't have much knowledge about the IRA or organizations linked to them, Irish background or not. > Presidents Reagan, Carter and Clinton all made trips to >Ireland to find their roots, and thousands, if not millions >of US citizens go over to Ireland for the same purpose. Yes, and that has always been one of my dreams, too. But we go for more sentimental reasons and to take in the gorgeous countryside. We don't think of the political problems there. >In the case of the Irish, I imagine that these would often >refer to exile, famine, struggle and discrimination. That is very true, but no different than the tales handed down in families of Jewish, Polish, Ukranian, Native American or African background. Most all ethnic groups in the U.S. hand down their stories through their families. It's a common American tradition. I think where this bothers you is that the stories of Irish hardship inevitably makes the English look less than good. You probably feel that this has been perpetuated long enough and that it has led to nursing old greivances which can translate into money being sent by American Irish to the IRA, etc. I can understand your feelings. > Given that the IRA is now regarded as a terrorist >organisation in the USA do you really expect NORAID >to say it is a channel for raising funds for the IRA > to buy weapons? If they are, no. But then do you really expect for a naive softhearted Irish American to know that they are? I know the Europeans think we are a naive people in general and they are correct in some respects. We tend to be open, trusting and many of us believe everything at face value. If the media says it's true or doesn't tell us about something, that it's for a lot of people. We don't neccesarily go research the issue further. A trait that personally has bothered me quite a bit for a long time. >Does the CIA's website say that they >are undermining >democratic governments? I don't know - maybe I'll look it up. I do know for fact that the U.S. media or other information channels has always portrayed the IRA in a fairly hideous light, always as terrorists, and even more so by connecting it with other terrorist groups in the world. I just saw an article the other day saying they had fraternized with the Bin Laden operatives. Don't know if that is true, but the point is they are overwhelmingly not romanticized in the U.S. This discussion has been helpful to let at least some Americans on the list know more about these issues. If it stops someone from putting money in a box somewhere, it has been worthwhile. I will say that I am very saddened by the anti-American sentiment that I've seen revealed in a lot of the European press since Sept. 11th. I think we always had a vague idea that the Euros looked down on us a bit, but had no idea how deep the hostility runs. I think it is a rude awakening for a lot of us who go along like puppy dogs thinking everyone is our good friend. I am willing to reconsider how we are viewed by the world and the reasons why and I only hope that the Europeans would also try to reconsider us on some things, too. Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #494 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?