From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #493 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, October 17 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 493 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Clouds, Gallery,... NJC [cvickery@danielrealty.com] [none] ["shane mattison" ] Re: Today in Joni History: October 17 San Remo [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Clouds, Gallery,... NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Canada's National Post today (njc) ["shane mattison" ] eschewing technology, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] Kiss my ass, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] releasing evidence, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] for John Martyn fans, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Shane's Post on Terrorism ["J. R. Mills" ] Re: Clouds, Gallery,... [colin ] Re: Clouds, Gallery,... NJC [colin ] Herbert Spencer (njc) ["shane mattison" ] FDR saying (njc) ["shane mattison" ] Trudeau and the terrorists (njc) ["shane mattison" ] Subject: Re: Scary thing happened at work today njc ["Kate Bennett" ] 2 Joni tickets available - Friday Toronto [Les Irvin ] Re: Getting scarier (njc) ["Kakki" ] Topsfield fest 2001 NJC ["brian symes" ] Re: Getting scarier correction (njc) ["Kakki" ] Winston S. Churchill (njc) ["shane mattison" ] lobster magnet (njc) [jan ] Re: Sorry (NJC) ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: in defense of george schultz (njc) [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Getting scarier correction (njc) [colin ] Re: in defense of george schultz (njc) [colin ] Re: [Jonifest2001] 2 Joni tickets available - Friday Toronto [Mags ] Re: NORAD (njc) [] Re: eire (njc) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Shane's Post on Terrorism ["J. R. Mills" ] Re: in defense of george schultz (njc) ["J. R. Mills" ] Re: in defense of george schultz (njc) [Vince Lavieri ] RE: JM Biography ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: George Schultz (njc) ["Kakki" ] Getting scarier correction (njc) [Vince Lavieri ] Re: JM Biography [Vince Lavieri ] Anthrax update (njc) ["Kakki" ] Etta James died yesterday - NJC ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Re: George Schultz (njc) ["J. R. Mills" ] Re: JM Biography ["Kakki" ] Re: Etta James died yesterday - NJC ["Brenda J. Walker" > then the vigilant colin wrote: <> and jerry admitted: <> now me: jerry, i flubbed similarly earlier in the week, not knowing what "sweet bird" was. i was subjected to verbal abuse and was reduced to tears by the evil* lori fye and the appropriately-named* hell adcock. be strong, my brother. but be careful who you talk to about those "rising" hormones or they'll have you decked out in sensible shoes before you know what hit you. cindy NOTE: lori and hell are not actually evil. and any similarities to people living or dead are purely unintentional. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:45:18 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: [none] Charles Hill is diplomat in residence and lecturer in International Studies at Yale, and a Hoover Institution research fellow. Hill served as executive aide to former U.S. Secretary of State George P. Schultz (1985--1989) and was a special consultant on policy to the secretary-general of the United Nations from 1992 to 1996. He spoke to Yale Daily News Contributing Reporter C. Wallace DeWitt about the challenges facing the U.S. government and the present generation of Yale students. CH: The Cold War experience is important in a psychological sense and in a sense of an example of how much will power had to do with our eventual success there. And that's the kind of thing we'll need in the war against terrorism. We're going to hear again and again and again from within our own population "Now you've done enough, don't do any more," and we can't stop. We just have to listen to them but keep going. Because if we don't keep going, this affliction will really destroy civilization. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:36:15 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Today in Joni History: October 17 San Remo <> While I'm chuckling at the mental picture THAT conveys, I'll confirm that that unplugged Lakota is a part of the same show. The full setlist is: Lakota Hejira Number One Night Ride Home Passion Play Joni and Larry Klein are the musicians. It's about half an hour long. I've got a pretty good sounding copy if you're interested! And there's a lot of spoken Italian as well, which sounds to me like: Blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah blah Joni Meeetchell Blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah blah Larry Klein! :~D And I agree that Lakota is a much better song when it's freed from the slings and arrows of outrageous 80's production! ;~) Bob NP: Junior Kimbrough, "Meet Me In The City" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:40:08 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Clouds, Gallery,... NJC <> And here I thought the guy was just having another "Methuselah" moment! LOL! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:11:10 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: Canada's National Post today (njc) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:01:13 -0700 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: Re: Shane's Post on Terrorism I am very familiar with the Hoover Institution and have worked closely with George Schultz. I would take anything espoused by a Hoover Institution fellow or Schultz with a grain of salt, as they represent the extreme political right and have a vested interest in perpetuating the military-industrial complex in the U.S. and globally. - -Julius - ----- Original Message ----- From: "shane mattison" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 10:45 AM > Charles Hill is diplomat in residence and lecturer in International Studies at > Yale, and a Hoover Institution research fellow. Hill served as executive aide > to former U.S. Secretary of State George P. Schultz (1985--1989) and was a > special consultant on policy to the secretary-general of the United Nations > from 1992 to 1996. He spoke to Yale Daily News Contributing Reporter C. > Wallace DeWitt about the challenges facing the U.S. government and the present > generation of Yale students. > > CH: The Cold War experience is important in a psychological sense and in a > sense of an example of how much will power had to do with our eventual success > there. And that's the kind of thing we'll need in the war against terrorism. > We're going to hear again and again and again from within our own population > "Now you've done enough, don't do any more," and we can't stop. We just have > to listen to them but keep going. Because if we don't keep going, this > affliction will really destroy civilization. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:57:19 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: eschewing technology, NJC > If bin Lauden uses a microphone and a tv camera to communicate, isn't he > breaking his own rules about eschewing technology?? > > "What up with that?" > > Lamadoo I'm not sure about that. However, I'm sure Bin Laden did watch a few american movies in order to get tips and ideas on how to perform his terrorist attacks, past and future. Amazing how reality surpasses fiction. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:02:55 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Kiss my ass, NJC . (But in true Irish fashion, the only Irish-language phrase I ever learned from my grandfather means "Kiss my ass!") > > --Bob > Funny, that's also the only phrase my father taught me in Polish! Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:02:34 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: releasing evidence, NJC Hello Vince, How about the argument that releasing evidence to the Talibans would also give away intelligence sources? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:05:40 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: for John Martyn fans, NJC Calling all John Martyn fans: Terry Callier = american (black) counterpart of John Martyn, same voice, same style! or in other words: John Martyn = scottish counterpart of Terry Callier. recommended listening by Terry Callier: Time Peace (96) TC live at Mother Blues 1964 (very close to the early John Martyn folk) Live (2001) Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:07:23 -0700 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: Re: Shane's Post on Terrorism Yikes! That was obviously totally NJC. So sorry, Joni-Onlies. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:22:48 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Clouds, Gallery,... > Wish I got this much attention to my hormones > rising. this sounds interesting. do tell. > > > Jerry - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:26:26 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Clouds, Gallery,... NJC I could tell you some truly wicked stories about Lori and Hell but I was sworn to secrecy, which in this case was an easy oath to make considering what they were holding in thier hands when they made mw swear to forever keep my gob shut. That's what you get for fraternising with the Sisterhood. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:30:39 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: Herbert Spencer (njc) "The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools." --Herbert Spencer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:42:23 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: FDR saying (njc) as FDR said: "don't get ulcers... -give 'em!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:02:16 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: Trudeau and the terrorists (njc) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:38:19 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Re: Scary thing happened at work today njc That is horrible Catherine, I hope it is only a hoax. Which many of them are, still what a terrible thing to have happen. Re: the advisory on supspicious mail & the foreign country postmark part- haven't all of the cases in this country come from within the US? anyway, thanks for posting this Lori, its good to be extra aware of anything suspicious... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:48:42 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Joni Mitchell - A Tribute In Song - in Toronto (LONG - 100% JC - Get Coffee) wow, rick & jimmy, what an incredible night! thanks so much for posting this rick.... lol re: you never want to hear another guy sing case of you...my friend doug ingoldsby will be doing this very song at our santa barbara tribute to joni on november 7! (actually i love his version & some say he sounds like tracy chapman so maybe it'll be okay!) ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:35:52 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: in defense of george schultz (njc) julius wrote: including solzhenitsyn i suppose... wakey wakey... shane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:01:14 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Shane's Post on Terrorism Julius wrote: >I would take anything espoused by a Hoover Institution > fellow or Schultz with a grain of salt, as they represent >the extreme political right Now Julius - I thought the extreme political right were those ignorant, red-neck, gun-toting, Christian fundamentalist militia types. ;-) Kakki, who actually remembers Schultz being considered a "moderate" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:57:02 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: 2 Joni tickets available - Friday Toronto Urgent message from Amy Maestri: >Subject: 2 Joni tickets Friday Toronto >Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:25:10 -0700 >From: "Maestri Amy " > >I have 2 tickets to the JM Hommage in Toronto this Friday. Great seats! >3rd row, RIGHT, seats 48-49. I'll sell them for $50 US which is a >bargain. Face value for two is $255 US. Tix include Joni event and a >gourmet dinner prior at the Liberty-Grand Exhibition Place in Toronto. >Check the websites: www.Libertygrand.com or >www.worldleadersfestival.com/events/hommages/mitchell.html >email me if you are interested. I'll ship them FREE in time for Friday. >I'm in the N. Bay area if anyone is local and want to pick them up. >Hurry--event is this Friday! > >thanks much, >Amy > >amy.maestri@nokia.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:29:18 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Getting scarier (njc) Kate asked: > Re: the advisory on supspicious mail & the foreign >country postmark part-haven't all of the cases in this >country come from within the US? I've lost track of which ones came from where except that a few came from Florida, the ones to Tom Brokaw and Sen. Daschle came from apparently the same person in Trenton, N.J. and one came from Malaysia. I don't know if they know where the Anthrax found in Gov. Pataki's NY office has come from. Even scarier is that some news is reporting that the Anthrax that has been found in Daschle's and Feinstein's senate offices may have somehow been released into the Senate building's ventilation system. I just read two more reports about building in West L.A. and Seattle being evacuated and part of an oil refinery in Northern California has exploded with evacuation of people from nearby towns. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:14:43 -0700 From: "brian symes" Subject: Topsfield fest 2001 NJC Dear Maestro Ashara For not attending I will read the whole report with who knows how many pages of so many missed details. Thanks for making me fall for the picture of Claudia strumming on the front porch. Laughing thru Bob Murphy's report.Does Kate ever take a bad Picture She must allways be taking totally organic photogenic vitamins that they only sell in Socal. I do not play any Instruments so all i can do is put my two hands together and clap for your incredible work putting all this into the JMDL Two thumbs up for voting you into a JMDL DIVA membership Love Brian in Oregon The history of our life is written on the bottom of are shoes. Me Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:41:00 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Getting scarier correction (njc) I heard wrong - it was some of Sen. Feingold's (not Feinstein) staffers who have also tested postive for Anthrax exposure. Kakki > found in Daschle's and Feinstein's senate offices may >have somehow been released into the Senate building's >ventilation system. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:34:51 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: Winston S. Churchill (njc) many were working for appeasement, by deed and by tongue, when chamberlain brought home his so-called 'peace agreement', after kissing hitler's butt... while the crowds on the streets celebrated the shameful munich capitulation, winston s. churchill prophesied: "You were given the choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor and you will have war." shane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:36:57 -0700 From: jan Subject: lobster magnet (njc) http://www.512productions.com/lobstermagnet/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:58:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Sorry (NJC) Awesome report, Rick (and Jimmy)! Thanks!!! > Hey guys, we were in AOL hell for a while and > noticed that very long post may have been sent > two or more times. Apologies for the digest > length - we were scared the whole thing was lost > and didn't know AOL had sent it already. I was an AOHell customer for 3 or 4 years, and I learned this along the way: it's always best to write a long letter or post in a word processing program, then paste it to your email document. In lieu of that, use the "File" and "New" functions to open a text window in AOL. Since that feature is part of the actual software on your hard drive, if your AOL connection goes down, you'll still have the file. (Unless, of course, your computer goes down with it. Because MS Word and the like will generally create "restore" files in such a case, word processing is a better option). Again, thanks! Lori in MD ~ Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:09:32 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: in defense of george schultz (njc) Subject: Re: Getting scarier correction (njc) according to news I just saw, 31 people have tested positve for Anthrax in Daschle's office. The house is closed. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 23:41:58 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: in defense of george schultz (njc) JRMCo1@aol.com wrote: > > > is it just me or does anyone else have such a strong feeling of dejavu? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:31:22 -0400 From: Mags Subject: Re: [Jonifest2001] 2 Joni tickets available - Friday Toronto did anyone scoop these up yet??? mags. Les Irvin wrote: > Urgent message from Amy Maestri: > > >Subject: 2 Joni tickets Friday Toronto > >Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:25:10 -0700 > >From: "Maestri Amy " > > > >I have 2 tickets to the JM Hommage in Toronto this Friday. Great seats! > >3rd row, RIGHT, seats 48-49. I'll sell them for $50 US which is a > >bargain. Face value for two is $255 US. Tix include Joni event and a > >gourmet dinner prior at the Liberty-Grand Exhibition Place in Toronto. > >Check the websites: www.Libertygrand.com or > >www.worldleadersfestival.com/events/hommages/mitchell.html > >email me if you are interested. I'll ship them FREE in time for Friday. > >I'm in the N. Bay area if anyone is local and want to pick them up. > >Hurry--event is this Friday! > > > >thanks much, > >Amy > > > >amy.maestri@nokia.com > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck > Monitoring Service trial > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Gi0tnD/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/JPJolB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Jonifest2001-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ - -- And this loving is a drawing close, a tuning in, an opening. Until one perfect moment; but how can it be expressed? A receiving, an enfolding as I cradle you in my arms. Within my heart, within my soul, You are my true love. --Lui Collins - --- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:06:33 -0400 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: Joni's new 2 CD project in the works I hope Joni is gonna play some piano during her recording date NEXT MONTH month in London. Much as I love Herbie Hancock's contributions, I also love Joni's piano playing. np: "Let The Wind Carry Me" comes to mind. Oh my! Please play some piano, Joni! Lama Get well, Anne! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:17:52 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Anne's CD Isn't Joni just something? (so much for the Joni content) OK, Anne's surgery is scheduled for NEXT Friday, the 26th. So that means if you want to be a part of our "recording" project for her, you still have time. If you've been deleting digests, I'm collecting messages of love, faith & support for Anne and compiling them on a CD to send her. She'll use the messages to draw strength and in a way it'll be like we're there holding her hand. So, if you think it's too late to pitch in, it's not. You can send me a recording, tape or CD, or you can e-mail an Mp3 or a wav. file, or you can just call me and leave a message on my recorder, and through the miracle of modern technology and Playskool toys I'll do the Henry Lewy business! :~) Hey, call from work and it's free! Just be sure to call between the hours of 8-3 east coast time. If you screw up and call at the wrong time (as one of you crazy girls did & you know I love you for it!), no problem, I'll just tell you to call back and I'll let it record. My phone number....864-233-7584 Imagine that YOU are in Anne's place, and about to face something that put you in a place of much anxiety. Wouldn't it be great to hear from your JMDL brothers & sisters to feel the power that comes from this group? I'm not twisting anyone's arm, and I appreciate that everyone responds in the manner that suits them. Thanks for your time...I've gotten a good response, but if you feel so moved to chime in, please do so. Love & peace to ya, Bob NP: Ani, "freakshow" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:52:12 -0500 From: Kate Subject: tribute in toronto Hey fellas -- did they tape it for tv? Kate du Nord ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 01:41:34 +0100 From: Subject: Re: NORAD (njc) Kakki wrote : > You surprise me, Philip! I had this image of you as a hip, seasoned music It's ok Kakki, I'm really this skinny indie kid trapped inside an old man's body :) Colorado was a great place to visit. Besides the amazing scenery, the locals were just so laid back and friendly (like someone we all know). They'd take you along camping (nearly everyone owns an rv), water rafting, skiing. I wonder what film Joni saw in New York City that was shot in Colorado. I used to think it was The Shining (partially shot in Boulder and CO Springs I believe). But Badlands or Butch Cassidy seem to fit the "girl meets desperado" part better. Nice chatting with you as ever, Philip NP jazzy flute solo on Giles Peterson show ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:43:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: eire (njc) - --- TimandMaryPowers@aol.com wrote: > PS my father wanted to name me "Mara" as it is a > classic Irish name but my > mother put her foot down so they settled for "Mary > Katherine". My maiden > name is Ryan by the way. LOL - Tim Power also sounds pretty Irish to me! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:06:57 -0700 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: Re: Shane's Post on Terrorism > Kakki, who actually remembers Schultz being considered a "moderate" Well, Kakki, everything is relative. > Now Julius - I thought the extreme political right were those ignorant, > red-neck, gun-toting, Christian fundamentalist militia types. ;-) That would be some people's characterization (not mine, mind you) of "conservatives." I don't use "conservative" and "political right" interchangably. :-) Seriously though. George Schultz was Secretary of State during the Reagan Administration. Ronnie was a pretty secular guy. When I say "extreme political right," I mean politicians, lobbyists and others who attempt to concentrate political and economic power in the hands of a few industry giants and then turn around and go work for these enriched companies for untold millions in compensation after they leave office. Dick Chaney at Haliburton, George Schultz at Bechtel (where I worked with him), etc. This is where characters like Shane's Mr. Charles Hill and the Hoover Institution fellows come in. For those that aren't aware, the Hoover Institution is an ultra-right "think tank" located on the Stanford University campus. Theoretically, it is not affiliated with the University. Long story. Anyway, since the end of the Cold War there has been significant consolidation in the U.S. defense industry. A number of high-level mergers have subsequently occurred, resulting in the concentration of economic and political power in the hands of a few industry giants. For example, General Dynamics Corporation, which operates Electric Boat, acquired Bath Shipbuilding in 1995 and National Steel and Shipbuilding (NASSCO) in 1998, and now controls three of the nation's six shipyards which produce Navy vessels. The "Big Three" in the defense industry -- Lockheed Martin, Boeing and Raytheon -- alone accounted for 26% of all defense contracts in FY'99. In Fiscal Year 1999 the Department of Defense awarded $118 billion to contractors for goods and services. The reason an alarm goes off when I read something like shane posted from the Hoover Institution fellow, which I'll go ahead and repeat here, is that these guys' mouths are watering at the prospect of another prolonged "war against terrorism" whereby they can get the defense contracts flowing big time again and reap the huge dividends while the poor keep getting poor. The wealthy and those politically connected to the Pentagon (and the CIA) will be the one who can get the huge, huge dollars that flow from the limitless defense contracts. That's why George W. and his dad's pals wanted the "Star Wars" system so badly before this terrorism thing surfaced. It has very little, if anything, to do with national defense. They're all about the money! - -Julius "CH: The Cold War experience is important in a psychological sense and in a sense of an example of how much will power had to do with our eventual success there. And that's the kind of thing we'll need in the war against terrorism. We're going to hear again and again and again from within our own population "Now you've done enough, don't do any more," and we can't stop. We just have to listen to them but keep going. Because if we don't keep going, this affliction will really destroy civilization" > Julius wrote: > > >I would take anything espoused by a Hoover Institution > > fellow or Schultz with a grain of salt, as they represent >the extreme > political right ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:11:30 -0700 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: Re: in defense of george schultz (njc) "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex." President Dwight D. Eisenhower Farewell Address January 17, 1961 "A billion here, a billion there, sooner or later it adds up to real money." U.S. Senator Everett Dirksen :-) Julius ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:45:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: IRA njc - --- philipf@tinet.ie wrote: > Mike Pritchard wrote > > > The US govt has on occasions refused to > > extradite people wanted by the British govt for > terrorist activities, > > accepting the argument that the person wanted by > the Brits had been > engaged in > > a 'legitimate conflict'. Judge Sprizzo, delivered > this verdict in 1986 in > New > > York, > > Judges make decisions based on law. Are you saying > the judge should have > disregarded the law and handed the man over just > because Britain said so ? > Britain's appalling record on human rights may have > been a factor the judge > had to consider (Britain was found guilty by an > international court of > torturing innocent citizens in Northern Ireland). Not sure what the US's reason for refusing to extradite might have been, so I'll have to go with what Mike says. I do know that Canada won't extradite to any country where the person-to-be-extradited is likely to be executed, since we abolished capital punishment some time ago. One recent controversial case of this was the arrest of [first name?] Ng, a serial killer arrested in Canada. The U.S. wanted to get him back, but Canada wouldn't do it because he was sentenced to death. A lot of Canadians wanted him out of our country too, not wanting Canadian taxpayers' money supporting a convicted killer who wasn't even a Canadian. The sad part is, I don't remember what the outcome of this was - did Ng get sent back to the US? Did the US gov't agree not to execute him? I dunno! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:01:39 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: in defense of george schultz (njc) It is to the credit of the JMDL that it actually features threads about George Schultz! Julius has posted wisely and well on Schultz, who was no moderate, a staunch conservative, and a man whose mind could be very closed and vision very limited. I also have experience with George Schultz. There is much that could be said in criticism of the foreign policy during his tenure as Secretary of State. And the more that I think about it, the more critical one could be. But I am not starting any threads on that! Schultz was not a right-winger nor extremist, just very conservative - and rigid in his thinking, as opposed to say John McCain who is conservative but not with fixed mind. To the post that said: > > Julius responded: > > > This is your defense of George Schultz? Weak. > Exactly. Alexander Solzhenitsyn is a gifted writer, a person who has lived with integrity with his beliefs. For this he is to be admired, as well as for his courageous and necessary exposure of the Soviets oppression of their own people. As one of the few people who had read all the way all three volumes of the Gulag Archipelago as well as other of his works, I can assure you that Alexander Solzhenitsyn is no democrat, no friend of democracy, no supporter of a republic form of government. He is a monarchist, he has a dogmatic view of the polis as autocratic as one can possibly imagine, with the Orthodox Church serving in the function that can only be analogized as how Islam functions in the Taliban - civil authority subject to the clerics. Solzhenitsyn is also often accused of being anti-Semitic. That to me is not totally clear in his writings at all points but I have seen enough to suspect that it is true. Alexander Solzhenitsyn also harshly castigates America which is why he returned to Russia as soon as possible. He judges our culture harshly and our form of government more. He is totally Russian. Read enough 20th century Russian literature and you'll know what I mean! So Julius, I would differ from you in saying "This is your defense of George Schultz? Weak." by replacing the word "weak" with "strange." But where Solzhenitsyn and I would agree is that he was convicted of crimes for which he was not guilty because of secret evidence. Secret evidence... where has that been in the news recently? It is repressive regimes that claim that the evidence cannot be revealed because of state security concerns. The American constitution and legal justice system are predicated on prohibiting Star Chambers and secret evidence. Those of us of a certain Joni-esque age and slightly younger will remember UN Ambassador Adlai Stevenson, Jr. in 1962 at the United Nations, calmly laying out the evidence piece by piece of the Soviet installation of missiles in Cuba. When Stevenson was done, everyone knew that our intelligence system provided that information obviously - that was not a big surprise that the US has intelligence gathering capabilities. The world may have learned a bit about our capabilities - we all did, we were not aware until then as the general public of how well satellite photographs could show detail. The world also learned a great deal about the evidence and American justice and the world gathered around us and we quarantined Cuba and the world, minus the Soviet block, was on our side. And we may recall, violence was averted. There was in fact no war. The Soviets had to back down in the face of the evidence. They backed down. Were we to follow a similar procedure now, of laying out the evidence, I believe that the world will rally to our side on the basis of incontrovertible evidence - and nations that oppose our bombing Afghanistan will support measures to have a peaceful end to this and arrest of the terrorists - which the Taliban has promised to do when the evidence is given, their board of clerics have ruled so, and let the Crimes Against Humanity trials begin. That is justice. That is also a way to keep from creating more hatreds, suspicions, and more acts of terrorism. And we as a nation would come out of this true to our own principals and with a witness to the world that will bring us the safety and security that violence never will. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:06:41 -0400 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: JM Biography I received and forwarded a copy from Covington, Kentucky yesterday. Amazon U.K. did a fine job. The book was professionlly though simply packed in a folding, padded mailing wrapper. The billing was in British units, so until I check my account at the bank, I don't know it in USA Dollars. I read and loved the Forward and I'm looking forward (hee hee) to reading my own copy next week. The list of sources that Karen O'Brien read in preparation (the Bibliography) is immense. In that, she's truely one of us. As others have noted, she mentions the work of Les Irvin, Simon, Bob Muller, Wally Breese and JJ. In particular, Karen points readers to jmdl.com to research Covers of Joni's songs. Congratulations, Bob, on getting some recognition for this useful Work you've done. And thanks as always to Les for creating the space. (You already GOT your recognition, Les, at that al fresco lunch.) :) Life is good. Lama Get well, Anne! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 23:13:59 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: JM Biography i'm so happy that bob muller is getting some recognition for his labor of love. congratulations, dear friend!!!!!! wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:41:25 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: George Schultz (njc) Hey Julius, I have to tell you that I don't know that much about George but always feel queasy when people with his type of background are put into key positions in government - the Bechtel connection chilled me a bit at the time, too. >When I say "extreme political right," I mean politicians, >lobbyists and others who attempt to concentrate political >and economic power in the hands of a few industry > giants and then turn around and go work for these >enriched companies for untold millions in compensation >after they leave office. Dick Chaney at Haliburton, >George Schultz at Bechtel (where I worked with him), >etc. Why not just call them opportunistic rather than assign them an "extreme" political label? Schultz worked at Bechtel for years before he served in the Reagan administration - I think he was like the CEO or one of the directors as I recall. I was shocked when I saw him on TV a few weeks ago - he must be 100 years old at this point! ;-) I know Eisenhower famously warned against the military industrial complex, but that should not be taken to mean that we have no military industrial sector at all. I hope you are not thinking we are currently defending ourselves on a trumped-up reason just to throw tons of money to the defense industry. Maybe I don't want to know the answer to that one. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:30:49 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Getting scarier correction (njc) The news from Washington and New York is indeed scarier and more bizarre with each new news bulletin. It is obvious that whoever is doing these anthrax things is dedicated on shutting down our government by fear. The mistake of any practitioner of violence against a people is thinking that they can cower the intended victims of their violence. People, be it communities, nations, whatever, tend to rally together and unite. The same miscalculations that were evidently made on September 11th, that we were so totally materialistic that we could not unite, are still wrong with this new biological warfare threat. (And would it be my post if I did not point out that George W Bush alone among world leaders opposed the biological weapons treaty ban last spring, and thus without US support, it collapsed? The treaty that would have allowed us to inspect the Russian facilities were this type of high grade anthrax is produced? The treaty Bush opposed because he didn't want inspections of our facilities? The same G W Bush who withdrew Clinton's executive orders to beef up airport security that the airlines objected to as being too costly? Their cost analysis said that in repealing Clinton's executive order, projections were that we would lose one plane and 70 something people in an 8 year span, and that was cheaper than the expense of the new security measures ordered by Clinton? And so Bush withdraw Clinton's executive order increasing airport security.) Differ as we will on the type of response that our nation should make, and differ as we will on maybe the current administration should have had a larger perspective than that of the Heritage Society, whatever differences we have, we as a people need to be united more than ever. However each person expresses unity, I am in part doing it by ordering more car flags - I think it is almost inspiring to see our beautiful flag flying on so many cars around here - and a couple of "My Son is a Marine" bumper stickers to put on the car with the flags and with the peace sign bumper stickers. Might as well cover all bases! I also ordered a service person flag to hang in my window, proud of my Marine son, which will be next to the peace flag. I know that not everyone is a flag waver and that is ok, too, but in the face of these new biological events I wish to answer and this is all I can think of that I can right here right now for now. I will checking with the local VFW and American Legion as I realized that the 2nd month anniversary of September 11th will fall on Veterans Day, November 11th. I will be trying to coordinate a community service that will honor both observances. Those who practice violence act in ways counter productive to their cause. Despite all they do, that star spangled banner yet waves o'er the land of the free and home of the brave. And let us respond to these things with bravery and with integrity to our Constitutional procedures for meting out justice. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:35:35 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: JM Biography "jlamadoo, home account" wrote: > In particular, Karen points readers to jmdl.com to > research Covers of Joni's songs. > She thanks Bob Muller!!!!! p 334!!!!!!!! Bob, your name is in the book! (the Rev) Vince, very proud of you ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:01:05 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Anthrax update (njc) The news was coming so fast and furious today and many reports were later revised or corrected. It's difficult to get all the facts, but I guess in the current atmosphere of scarmbling and alarm, that is not surprising. Here is an update, originally from AP, clarifying some earlier reports. Kakki http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-anthrax-investiga tion1017oct17.story ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:42:40 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Etta James died yesterday - NJC http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusic/oct17_jones-ap.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:52:23 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: JM Biography In a message dated 10/17/01 9:15:31 PM, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << i'm so happy that bob muller is getting some recognition for his labor of love. congratulations, dear friend!!!!!! >> A big 'ME TOO' here. I am impressed with all the work you do for the covers project, Bob. I think it's a very important archival achievement that will one day be given the recognition it deserves (beyond your admirers here, of course). Which reminds me, wasn't there a plan a few months ago to box the set and send it to you-know-who? I think she would love -- and hate, of course! -- many of the individual artists' efforts. In any case, I'm sure she would treasure it. So if there's anything i can do to make it happen, let me know. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:55:57 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Etta James died yesterday - NJC Oh, no! That is so sad. I saw her on Late Night with David Letterman a couple of months ago and she was absolutely phenomenal. I remember Letterman saying something like, "That's all the talent we'll ever need on the show. Why book anyone else?" --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:57:01 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Etta James died yesterday - NJC Damn. There were talking about her on NPR this morning but it was truncated by their damned fundraising so I missed what the story was about. Rest eternal grant Etta, O Lord, and let perpetual shine upon her. Thank you that you gave us to her for her gift of music. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:53:55 -0700 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: Re: George Schultz (njc) Kakki writes: >Why not just call them opportunistic rather than assign them an "extreme" >political label? You're right, Kakki. Point well-taken. I never wanted to get into the semantics of terms like "right," "left," "conservative," "right-wing," "liberal" and the like. Too many connotations and associations. Like I said, those were just my definitions...your mileage may vary. >Schultz worked at Bechtel for years before he served in >the Reagan administration - I think he was like the CEO or one of the >directors as I recall. I was shocked when I saw him on TV a few weeks ago - >he must be 100 years old at this point! ;-) He's a big San Francisco socialite these days. He had a huge wedding a few years back that was the talk of the town. I still run into him when I go visit friends at Bechtel and he's always at Stanford basketball games. Wealth and privilege is the best facelift, I guess. :-) >I know Eisenhower famously warned against the military industrial complex, >but that should not be taken to mean that we have no military industrial >sector at all. I hope you are not thinking we are currently defending >ourselves on a trumped-up reason just to throw tons of money to the defense >industry. Maybe I don't want to know the answer to that one. I'll respond anyway: I never said that. But for those who are "opportunistic," most any excuse will do. I'll grant that I think the "star wars" initiative smacks of a trumped-up reason to throw tons of money at the defense industry though. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:14:57 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: JM Biography Me, too, too! Bob surely deserves it and I'm so happy for him!! > Which reminds me, wasn't there a plan a few months >ago to box the set and send it to you-know-who? I think >she would love -- and hate, of course! -- many of the >individual artists' efforts. In any case, I'm sure she would > treasure it. So if there's anything i can do to make it >happen, let me know. Well, we tawk about it and tawk about it and we should start working on it. Probably too late for her birthday now, but maybe a holiday or New Year's gift? Hell offered to make a beautiful box of rare New Zealand woods to house it in. Wouldn't it be funny to enclose a note from Bob telling her how she can get future installments? heehee ;-) Thanks also Bob, Ashara, Les and all the incredible photographers for the Jonifest page - it is truly spectacular! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:10:29 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Etta James died yesterday - NJC On 17 Oct 2001, at 19:06, Kakki wrote: > Hi Brenda - it was Etta Jones, not Etta James - my dad has a number of > Jones' old records. Kakki > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brenda J. Walker" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 7:42 PM > Subject: Etta James died yesterday - NJC > > > > http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusic/oct17_jones-ap.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:11:30 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Etta James died yesterday - NJC Thanks for the correction! Someone sent it to me and I didn't look at the URL first. What a relief! B On 17 Oct 2001, at 19:06, Kakki wrote: > Hi Brenda - it was Etta Jones, not Etta James - my dad has a number of > Jones' old records. Kakki > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brenda J. Walker" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 7:42 PM > Subject: Etta James died yesterday - NJC > > > > http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusic/oct17_jones-ap.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 23:18:38 -0400 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: "Doctor's pills give you brand-new ills." Hi Justin, Welcome to the wacky world of posting on the JMDL where you risk becoming a Public Person with a single mouse click. I don't remember the details about Joni's personal motivation at the time for the lines, "Doctor's pills give you brand-new ills." but certianly imperfect health is an ongoing theme in her life, most significantly when she was bedridden as a kid. If you don't know that story, check out the bio on www.jonimithcell.com first. The neat thing about her lyrics is that you can live inside a refrain for a time and live in another verse in another. What I mean is, the song is so true to the experience of Medicine that you have discovered the lyric for yourself. But anyway, back to your question. There are tons of articles on the www.jmdl.com site, built by Les Irwin of Colorado. If she talked about health problems in interviews for that album, you'll find the comments there. It's an amazing resource. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 23:19:40 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Clouds, Gallery,... I have heard Leslie Mixon sing "The Gallery" memorably. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #493 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?