From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #485 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, October 15 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 485 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re:IRA NJC ["Kakki" ] Today's Articles: October 15 [les@jmdl.com] Re: US/IRA (njc) ["Kakki" ] Re: maggie mcnally!!!!! njc ["hell" ] Re: dates and measurements (njc) ["hell" ] Re: j.r. tolkien (njc) ["hell" ] Re: maggie mcnally!!!!! njc ["Robert Holliston" ] Re: IRA NJC [colin ] Re: US/IRA (njc) [colin ] Re: IRA NJC ["Kakki" ] Re: US/IRA (njc) ["Kakki" ] SF Get Together NJC [MGVal@aol.com] desert island movies, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: IRA NJC [colin ] Re: Thisbe Nissen and Joni [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: US/IRA (njc) [Gertus@aol.com] New warning (NJC) ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: dates and measurements (njc) ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: New warning (NJC) [Phyliss Ward ] Re: one tiny correction/comment (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: desert island movies, NJC ["J. R. Mills" ] Re: New warning (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Re: desert island movies, NJC [Jerry Notaro ] njc ["jlamadoo, home account" ] Re: Thoughts while flipping through Vanity Fair (sjc) ["Sybil Skelton" ] Re: Judy Collins in Q (sjc) [Reuben3rd@aol.com] The Prison Bitch Name Generator (NJC) [jan ] because y'all have such good taste... NJC ["Marian" ] Anne & Ashara njc ["Kate Bennett" ] response to terrorism (njc) ["shane mattison" ] Bridget Jones NJC [colin ] Re: response to terrorism (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 23:29:02 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re:IRA NJC colin asked: > I was wondering why you and others have ignored the >remarks made concerning the American people's >fundning of the IRA? I think it is pertinent right now. Because it was a diversion from the topic we were discussing and I did not have the time to go into it. Also, your statement is an oversimplification. My own personal; knowledge of this is limited to hearing about a few Irish pubs in the U.S. passing a hat here and there 30 years ago. The U.S. government has NEVER supported the IRA and every Irish national I know who lives in the U.S. has NEVER supported the IRA and thinks it's a scrouge on the Irish people. When I was first learning about it in the news about 35 years ago, it was always said that the IRA did NOT represent the Irish people and in fact, was tied into other international terrorist groups around the world at that time, including various Marxist and radical Islamic groups. It had no credibility or support from anyone I've ever known. So there you go. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 03:54:27 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: October 15 On October 15 this article was published: 1997: "Rocking Gracefully into the Golden Years" - Newhouse News Service (Biography) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/971015nns.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 635 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 00:10:22 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: US/IRA (njc) Jacky wrote: > I'm with you on this and also your comments regarding >US support for the IRA and Tony Blair's recent >activities. What does he think he's doing? I'm probably stepping into another landmine around here but this subject really struck home with me last night at a party. A British woman who I've known from a friend for years started attacking me out of nowhere after my friend mentioned in another completely innocuous context about my Irish background. (Warning - very emotional and negative content here) First she started yelling at me demanding to know why didn't I wish Bush had been killed by the terrorists on 9/11. I have never been so stunned in all my life and felt like my heart was going to literally come out of my chest. Then she went on to yell at me about U.S. supporting the IRA terrorists all these years. Talk about "profiling"!! Jeazus! All I could sputter out is just what I wrote to colin. Then she got right up in my face and spitted that the entire Kennedy family had been financing the IRA for years. I told her I didn't know anything about that! All I could say is why then doesn't the people "in the know" about this try to get them indicted or something! I do know it is a federal offense in the U.S. to give money to terrorists groups including the IRA. That's about the extent of my knowledge. But I am disturned here by your comments and colin's because it seems people in the U.K. may have a view towards Americans that most Americans have no clue about! I will offer up this analogy, not to increase flames, but to bring it into perspective. The U.K. can also be said to have supported the Bin Laden terrorists for years because many of them have set up operations in the U.K. and make their money deals through U.K. banks. Wouldn't it be a terribly unfair and judgmental for anyone to say that to someone from the U.K.? I do NOT feel that way, of course, especially since it can equally be oversimplified that the U.S. itself facilitated the Bin Laden terrorists for years, too. I'm just trying to put it into perspective, Jacky, and I hope you know that most Americans, including myself, Irish background or not, know little or nothing about either the IRA or American support for it. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:39:46 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: maggie mcnally!!!!! njc wallyk wrote: > dear and beautiful maggie! no one chops veggies like you! > happy birthday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Happy birthday Maggie - I hope you have a wonderful day (and that someone else is doing the cooking)! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:48:12 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: dates and measurements (njc) Bree wrote: > Lori, YOU ARE NOT ALONE!! My mother also called green peppers..... mangos. > TOO weird. Of course growing up I didn't know it was weird of her to say > mango when she was really talking about green peppers. We said "pop" and I > still do. I can still hear her saying to my father as he went out the door > to get the groceries: "Daddy, get me a couple or three of real nice (meaning > big) mangos." (she grew up in Eastern Kentucky) (the daddy thing) Your > other regional things are very weird like "read" the house. ;-) Of course I > grew up eating catsup on macaroni and cheese and still do. Don't want it > unless I have catsup on top. Siblings and their children the same. How can you even consider eating macaroni cheese (we don't say the "and") without tomato sauce (what you call catsup). It just can't be done! And there needs to be a LOT! More US to NZ translations: Green (or red or yellow) peppers are capsicums. Freeways are motorways. Car bonnet = hood. Car trunk = boot. Sidewalk = footpath. Pavement = road. Tarmac = road. And when we eat, the fork stays in the left hand, and the knife stays in the right - the whole time. Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:53:17 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: j.r. tolkien (njc) Mark wrote: > The Lord of the Rings would definitely be on my desert island list. > I've read them several times over the years. I saw a preview for the > first movie recently and am very excited. It looks like they may have > done it right. Keep you fingers and furry toes crossed! If you're interested in seeing more of Peter Jackson's work before the LOTR movie, you should see if you can rent the movie "Heavenly Creatures" which was one of his earlier projects. It deals with the true story of two teenage girls in Christchurch, NZ who killed one of their mother's fairly brutally in the 1950's. The story is dealt with very well (and with some sensitivity - not easy, given the subject), and it's a pretty good look (I think) of his film-making style. Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 01:54:42 -0700 From: "Robert Holliston" Subject: Re: maggie mcnally!!!!! njc HAPPY BIRTHDAY, MAGGIE!! Whoever "they" are, they broke the mould when they created you! Hope you had a wonderful day, my dear, and I look forward to seeing you again soon..... Big hugs, Roberto > >wallyk wrote: > > > dear and beautiful maggie! no one chops veggies like you! > > happy birthday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:32:51 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: IRA NJC > My own personal; knowledge of this is limited to hearing about a few Irish > pubs in the U.S. passing a hat here and there 30 years ago. this is not true, not at all. MAJOR funding was received from Americans for the IRA. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:37:23 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: US/IRA (njc) > and I hope > you know that most Americans, including myself, Irish background or not, > know little or nothing about either the IRA or American support for it. no one is balming you Kakki! I would not for sa moment think you gave money to cause! However, as you stae you know little about it. It has been common knowledge heere for many years. It has only recently been illegal in the USA(like in then last year or two) to....to honest I don't know the specicifcs of the law as it relates to the IRA-I just know it was very recent. By the way, that person you met was an idiot! Our country and yours has supported terrorists when it has suited them, that is the point I was making. > > > Kakki - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 01:25:14 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: IRA NJC colin, You asked me to respond and I answered from my personal knowledge. I know nothing more about any of it, so please do not direct any more questions to me personally about it. It's like assuming I can explain about how someone in Anarctica does calculus. I don't mind you at all discussing the topic here, and would be interested to hear about it so as to know what people in the U.K. may think but please do not direct any arguments at me. Thanks, Kakki > this is not true, not at all. MAJOR funding was received from Americans for the > IRA. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 01:32:05 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: US/IRA (njc) Colin, I sent my last post before I read this one and feel I should respond to it. > no one is balming you Kakki! I would not for sa >moment think you gave money to cause! Neither ever gave money or supported it in priniciple or any other way. Always had nothing but disdain for it and all other groups like it operating in the world under the guise of religion or ethnicity. > By the way, that person you met was an idiot! Thanks - I needed to hear that! I am still really shaken by the whole thing - it really upset me very much. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 07:13:17 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: SF Get Together NJC << what do you think of doing it on her birthday -- Nov 7th?? -- but I am completely psyched to meet in person a couple of the people I've chatted with in SF and environs (having finally met my first live jmdler yesterday; hint: think small blue imaginary beings). I haven't gotten through the rest of the latest digest yet, but i had to get right off and respond the moment I saw your post. I hope others have responded! >> Count me in! I am on digest and not the best of thorough readers, so if you can be patient or email me off list that would be perfect. Coffee time. MG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:27:41 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: desert island movies, NJC Hi Julius , since I agree with your selection #1-3, I'd appreciate if you could write a short description (including director, main actors) on #6, 8-10 Thanks Laurent > > 1)Casablanca > 2)Baghdad Cafe > 3)Jackie Brown > 4)Harold & Maude > 5)Gone With the Wind > 6)The Crying Game > 7)Guess Who's Coming to Dinner > 8)Sugar Cane Alley > 9)Six Degrees of Separation > 10)To Sir, With Love > > - -Julius > Laurent's list, in no particular order: 1) Big Lebowski: this is a screamer, especially for you fans of Pulp Fiction & Jackie Brown & 5th Element. 2) Philadelphia Story 3) Casablanca (makes me cry every time) 4) Vertigo 5) circa 97-98 Clint Eastwood movie , don't know the english title, where he plays an aging retired gunman who is asked to perform 1 last time. 6) Some Like it Hot 7) 7 Year Itch 8) One, two, three: a 1960 Billy Wilder movie starring James cagney as a Coca Cola executive in Berlin, Jewish humor at its best. One joke per minute. Sort of Lubitsch's Ninotchka but funnier. Sample line from the movie: Cagney after being asked for a bribe: "Is everybody crooked?", response from Russian Commissaar: "I don't know, I don't know everybody" 9) Bertrand Tavernier: Coup de Torchon (Clean Slate in english) about a policeman (Philippe Noiret) in an African village who decides he won't take abuse anymore. 10) Knock: a 40's french movie about a doctor (Louis Jouvet) who convinces the town people that they're all sick. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:51:13 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: IRA NJC This was not a question, merely a reply to you. howeve, you have made yourself clear so that is the end of it. Kakki wrote: > colin, > > You asked me to respond and I answered from my personal knowledge. I know > nothing more about any of it, so please do not direct any more questions to > me personally about it. It's like assuming I can explain about how someone > in Anarctica does calculus. I don't mind you at all discussing the topic > here, and would be interested to hear about it so as to know what people in > the U.K. may think but please do not direct any arguments at me. Thanks, > Kakki > > > this is not true, not at all. MAJOR funding was received from Americans > for the > > IRA. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:08:07 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Thisbe Nissen and Joni <<"My novel, 'The Good People of New York' would be about three pages long if you took out all the Joni Mitchell lyrics." has anyone read this book? how does she use the quotes?>> Christopher, if that book has been discussed here, I don't recall it. I'd be interested to get a hold of it to see how which quotes are referenced. Bob NP: Judybats, "Ugly On The Outside" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:48:22 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: US/IRA (njc) In a message dated 15/10/01 09:12:26 GMT Daylight Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: > But I am > disturned here by your comments and colin's because it seems people in the > U.K. may have a view towards Americans that most Americans have no clue > about! I think you are taking this too personally, Kakki. We are talking about governments here. In the UK we have lived with IRA terrorism for many years which, perhaps, hasn't had much coverage in the US press. I will offer up this analogy, not to increase flames, but to bring > it into perspective. The U.K. can also be said to have supported the Bin > Laden terrorists for years because many of them have set up operations in > the U.K. and make their money deals through U.K. banks. Wouldn't it be a > terribly unfair and judgmental for anyone to say that to someone from the > U.K.? You can say that to me and I will agree with you and I will not be upset by it at all because, although I live in a democracy, I am one small voice with no influence. I don't feel personal guilt just sadness. In fact the UK has been home to many terrorists for many years, it would seem, but it's difficult and probably pointless to apportion blame for this. Better to be more aware and more vigilant in the future which, we hope, will be the case. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 07:14:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: New warning (NJC) Don't go to the bathroom on October 28th. CIA intelligence reports that a major plot is planned for that day. Anyone who takes a poop on the 28th will be bitten on the ass by an alligator. Reports indicate that organized groups of alligators are planning to rise up into unsuspecting American's toilet bowls and bite them when they are doing their dirty business. I usually don't send emails like this, but I got this information from a reliable source. It came from a friend of a friend whose cousin is dating this girl whose brother knows this guy whose wife knows this lady whose husband buys hotdogs from this guy who knows a a shoeshine guy who shines the shoes of a mailroom worker who has a friend who's drug dealer sells drugs to another mailroom worker who works in the CIA building. He apparently overheard two guys talking in the bathroom about alligators and came to the conclusion that we are going to be attacked. So it must be true. ~ Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 07:24:10 -0700 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: dates and measurements (njc) Bree wrote: >I grew up eating catsup on macaroni and cheese and still do. Don't want it > > unless I have catsup on top. Siblings and their children the same. > >How can you even consider eating macaroni cheese (we don't say the "and") >without tomato sauce (what you call catsup). It just can't be done! And >there needs to be a LOT! Hell, I never thought about "and" concerning macaroni and cheese. Maybe because they are two separate things that one puts together. Tomato sauce and or catsup, do all NZers do this? Or is this something exclusive to your family? >More US to NZ translations: > And when we eat, the fork stays in the left hand, and >the knife stays in the right - the whole time. Even if one is right-handed? (I saw a movie, can't recall the title, this guy, who I believe was a spy or Nazi, slipped up while dining and switched utensils to opposite hand after cutting his meat...anyway, he gave himself away. The others at the table saw his deadly mistake and knew he wasn't who he said he was) Is there a lesson here? Bree >Hell >____________________________ >"To have great poets, there must be >great audiences too." - Walt Whitman > >hell@ihug.co.nz >Hell's Personal Photo Page: >http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm > >Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: >http://www.nbls.co.nz > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:25:04 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: New warning (NJC) <> And I saw the same thing, Lori, and in an e-mail no less so it REALLY must be true! Plus I think Nostradamus predicted it! :~D Bob NP: Snuffy Walden, "Another Country (Melissa's Illness)" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:29:16 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: one tiny correction/comment (njc) Hi Victor. I agree wholeheartedly with your post. I do have one small comment, though. You were talking about the Taliban and said "We[sic] should we negotiate with people who would fly commericial airliners into skyscrapers and needlessly kill 6000 innocent people?" As far as I can tell from what's been published, the Taliban isn't actually responsible for the WTC attacks. They seem pretty much focused on terrorizing Afghanistan (and exerting influence in Pakistan). They are, however, harboring Osama bin Laden, and he is apparently ultimately responsible. Things are so interwoven between bin Laden, al Qaeda, and the Taliban that it's hard to know where one stops and the other begins. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:35:36 EDT From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: Re: putting it all into perspective (njc) i thought anne's post was one of the best i've seen on this list in a long time. so full of insight...some personal and some political. at one point, her words helped clarify a political thought which is my own....not > > > > true. But, in fact, there are probably only (well, you know all things being > relative) a few hundred, if that, who are willing and capable of planning > and leading a cell to do truly devastating acts. (Look around your company, > your city, even this list. How many real leaders are there?) this is why i feel the taliban is so evil in this situation. they allow the ideas and thoughts of a few sick individuals to be made manifest. this is also why i'm able to accept the bombings in afghan...because they are aimed at putting down this group. does that justify innocent people killed in the crossfire? no. certainly not. but the risk of not acting is too great, in my opinion, for our safety in the united states. i think they've only found 400 or 500 of the 7000 people burried in manhattan. as well,,,, i do think the only response to their offers to negotiate is ...no..., followed by more bombs. we need to bomb and bomb and bomb their buildings and government related industries...without fear or apology...until their makeup begins to crack and falter and weaken and someone gives in and offers up the location of bin laden. and i'm so glad to see that appears to be exactly what we are doing. there seems to be a critical mass of ingrediants that allowed these attacks. hate and anger on the part of the terrorists. money and intelligence on the part of bin laden. network and communication on the part of the taliban. all three ingredients played a role. cut out two of the three and we're left with more terrorists without money or leadership to see their hatred made manifest. we'll never cure the world of all the terrorists. but we can take out their money, their leadership, and their communication resources. to me, this is why the bombings are justified. i'm aware of the pacifist views some hold on the list. i fully respect their views and am glad we have some hearts with us that remain purely conflicted when trying to decide which evil is greater than another. at the same time, i'm very glad that we have people who are not conflicted in this situation and are able to work toward eliminating opportunities for this type of evil to happen in our cities again. my only other post on this issue came after reading several pacifist posts in a row. i met yael at a fest in michigan. she's a beautiful person and has a beautiful heart. i felt badly afterwards for posting about the pacifist poets. and i understand kate's feelings on this as well. and vince too. i do understand the conflict in thought. for whatever reason, this one is not such a problem for me. doesn't mean i'm right. just able to live with it. on a personal side, anne's comments: > I'm sure we all feel threatened. And we are. But, before you let that threat > ruin your life and take all joy, just look at the sky, the earth under your > feet, the house next door. They're still here. Feel your breath. You're > still here. We all have today. We have each other. What we don't have is > immortality. We do have the ability not to let our death walk with us. Kakki > wondered privately how I could remain positive in my situation. It's because > today I breathe. I don't let my death walk with me. > these words are just plain profound. thank you. pat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 07:37:24 -0700 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: New warning (NJC) >Don't go to the bathroom on October 28th. CIA intelligence reports >that a major plot is planned for that day. Anyone who takes a poop >on the 28th will be bitten on the ass by an alligator. Is this just a warning for the United states? I'll be out of the states on the 28th. Just in case... I will be sure to mark my calendar. And will pass this on to all family and friends that I love. Does this include outhouses? Port-a-pots? (feel safe with a DEPEND!!!) Dig a hole. Got to go. Bree _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 07:42:20 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: New warning (NJC) ROTFL! : - D Just the chuckle I needed this morning Lori, Thanks! "Lori R. Fye" wrote: > Don't go to the bathroom on October 28th. Phyliss mailto:phyliss@goldenfigclay.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:06:41 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: one tiny correction/comment (njc) > Things are so interwoven between bin Laden, al Qaeda, and the > Taliban that it's hard to know where one stops and the other begins. > > lots of love > Anne Yes it is....I was just thinking how in other relationships that are interwoven together, that they are so finely woven together they are quite beautiful and it is hard sometimes to see where one person ends and the other begins. Souls touching souls. Victor in Athens Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 08:23:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Making Converts of Coworkers I work with three African-American women from the DC area who don't know much about Joni but who are curious, so I brought some CDs in today ... currently I can hear BSN (the album) coming from one corner and Hits coming from another. Not a bad day at work! : ) Lori in Bethesda, MD ~ Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 08:43:13 -0700 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: Re: desert island movies, NJC > Hi Julius , since I agree with your selection #1-3, I'd appreciate if you > could write a short description (including director, main actors) on #6, > 8-10 > Thanks > Laurent Hello, Laurent. I'm glad to...thanks for asking. You missed my amended list, which places the film "The Mission" in the top spot, so I'll start with that. I'm surprised that this one hasn't been listed by anyone else. Incidently, I believe it has some relevance to current events, in addition to being a cinematic masterpiece: 1) "The Mission" (1986) South America, the 1700s: a pacifist priest (Jeremy Irons) and a reformed slaver (Robert DeNiro) join to convert the native Indians. The two men are thrust into conflict when corruption within Church and state threaten to violently destroy all that they have built. Acclaimed drama by by director Roland Joffe ("The Killing Fields") 126 minutes 6) "The Crying Game" (1992) Writer/Director Neil Jordan's acclaimed, surprise-filled thriller about an I.R.A. fighter who leaves Ireland for England and begins an affair with a former prisoner's "girlfriend," a hairdresser working in London's seamy East End. But his old allies won't let the past stay buried, and an already volatile situation becomes deadly. Stephen Rea, Miranda Richardson, Forrest Whitaker and Jaye Davidson star. 112 minutes 8) "Sugar Cane Alley" (1984) Award-winning drama by Euzhan Palcy set on a sugar plantation in 1930s Martinique, where an old woman struggles to send her grandson to school and give him a better life. Garry Cadenat and Darling Legitmus star in this realistic look at Third World colonial life. AKA: "Rue Cases Negres." 107 minutes. In French with English subtitles. 9) "Six Degrees of Separation" (1993) Triumphant translation of John Guare's award-winning play stars Will Smith as Paul, the slick and possibly dangerous con artist who poses as Sidney Poitier's son in order to infiltrate the household of snooty art dealers living on Manhattan's Upper East Side. Donald Sutherland, Stockard Channing, Ian McKellan and Mary Beth Hurt also star. 112 minutes 10) "To Sir, With Love" (1967) Sentimental heart-tugger stars Sidney Poitier as a first-year teacher at a run-down East End London high school who bucks the traditonal educational system, allowing his unruly students to learn through experience and acquire a sense of responsibility. Co-stars Judy Geeson, Christian Roberts and Lulu (who sings the title tune); written, produced and directed by novelist James Clavell ("Shogun"). 105 minutes. So there you have it! I should mention that all of these synopsis's are taken from one of the prized reference books in my personal library: "The Movies Unlimited Video Catalogue: A Century of Cinema." This 800+ pager is available for about $10 U.S. plus shipping at www.moviesunlimited.com . Also, virtually every movie ever made available on video can be purchase from them. I highly recommend the catalogue, it's an incredible resource and a fantastic bargain at the price. And, yes, Joni's movies are in there. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:47:53 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: New warning (NJC) "Lori R. Fye" wrote: > > > Don't go to the bathroom on October 28th. Might be best not to ride the subway, either, if Edwin Morgan's poem 'The Subway Piranhas' is to be believed. Some time ago I was involved in the publication of a book called 'Poems on the Underground' - an anthology of all the poems that had appeared in vacant advertising spaces on the London Underground. Poet Edwin Morgan had been commissioned by the Scottish Arts Council to write a series of poems for the inauguration of Glasgow's refurbished Underground system. Apparently this one sent such alarm through the Strathclyde Transport Executive that they decided not to use it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Subway Piranhas by Edwin Morgan Did anyone tell you that in each subway train there is one special seat with a small hole in it and underneath the seat is a tank of piranha-fish which have not been fed for quite some time. The fish become agitated by the shoogling of the train and jump up through the seat. The resulting skeletons of unlucky passengers turn an honest penny for the transport executive, hanging far and wide in medical schools. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PaulC (now try reading it in a broad Scottish accent - full of doom!) Scares the hell out of me!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:49:47 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: desert island movies, NJC I would venture that the one movie most recently mentioned was Harold and Maude (one of my all time faves). Shows what a weird lot this is! Jerry np: Jeff Buckley: Lilac Wine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:52:19 EDT From: Kammass@aol.com Subject: vljc-joni on the market-buy now $3.47 If anyone's interested in a game? hsx.com (Hollywood Stock Exchange) Joni is at $3.47. Not very good. I figured if ya'll bought it would help me. lol Register and they'll give you the money to play with. Kammy in Alabammy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:23:31 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: dates and measurements (njc) >> And when we eat, the fork stays in the left hand, and >> the knife stays in the right - the whole time. > > Even if one is right-handed? Yes. You'll find that people eat with the fork continuously in their left hand in Europe, too. It's considered to be rather crude and uncivilized to be switching utensils from one hand to the other. And it's a dead giveaway that you're an American if you do so. Also, Europeans -- or Germans, at least -- consider it childish to eat foods with one's fingers. French fries are eaten with a fork, even at McDonald's (where they offer little plastic two-pronged forks for fries). It took awhile for sandwiches to catch on there, or at least for sandwiches to be eaten as Americans do. Lori in MD ~ Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 12:28:06 -0400 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: njc If bin Lauden uses a microphone and a tv camera to communicate, isn't he breaking his own rules about eschewing technology?? "What up with that?" Lamadoo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 12:20:04 -0500 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Re: Thoughts while flipping through Vanity Fair (sjc) (7) Anyone heard Weezer? He sounds like a depressive from the description, but sometimes that makes for interesting music. I think Weezer is a "they" not a "he". And, yes, I've heard them, thanks to my 17 yr old son. Pretty good stuff. Ah, those young'ns keep me hip. Sybil _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:08:14 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: that kid thing njc (was this gay thing) >>>Child rearing is mainly done by women, they have the greater influence. A really good chance to change things.<<< Colin, it would seem that way but I don't think it is true. In my experience, men have an equal influence over their children, both boys & girls. And I have seen it work both ways. The influences are positive when both father & mother are present & involved, negative when either parent is not. >>>>If children are loved as they ARE and not moulded into what society expects them to be, we will have a greater chance of peace.<<<< Yes, love is a big part of it. Then there's the tough love part that is harder... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:44:19 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Nov 7 (NJC) British Airways and Air France today announced that they would be celebrating Joni's birthday by resuming Concorde flights on Nov 7. Well, they didn't actually mention Joni, but it seems obvious to *me*. :) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:49:13 EDT From: Reuben3rd@aol.com Subject: Re: Judy Collins in Q (sjc) I have this disc...its a nice compilation. Its a pretty good selection of hits up to (not including) Hard Times For Lovers. Good stuff! Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:04:27 -0700 From: jan Subject: The Prison Bitch Name Generator (NJC) http://www.prisonbitchname.com/ [Aaddzz Advertisement] [TABLE NOT SHOWN][TABLE NOT SHOWN][TABLE NOT SHOWN][TABLE NOT SHOWN] [IMAGE] [Aaddzz Advertisement] Privacy Policy [Aaddzz Tracker] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:20:10 +0100 From: "Marian" Subject: because y'all have such good taste... NJC I have a very dear aunt (in her 80's) who can't see very well anymore and she likes those audio books. She likes mysteries and things that are funny and she would probably like stories that are real to life and funny. I would like to send her something, or a few somethings, but I haven't been reading very much lately, mostly because I've been spending any spare time doing music and by the time I hit the sack I'm so tired that I fall asleep after about 5 minutes. Does anybody have some suggestions? It would be good if the books are relatively new, since she's probably listened to most things that have been around for awhile. Thanks in advance, Marian marian@jmdl.com http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/guitar.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:16:17 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Anne & Ashara njc Anne & Ashara, Thank you both for your wonderful & inspiring posts.... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:43:29 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: response to terrorism (njc) to the technicians who corrected my typos on J.R.R. Tolkien: you slammed my typos but ignored my point. immanuel is coming! to kate: i appreciate your friendly tone, especially the thought that we seek the same end but disagree about the means... i too wish you only goodwill and peace... i do deny however that my remark about pacifists on flight 93, that they would fail to stop the terrorists from their goal, displays a lack of understanding of pacifism... true pacifism is effective in many things... stopping armed terrorists is not one of them... i think my point about pacifism is basically this: there is a time and a season for a pacifist response. I believe today's situation would be made worse by it. pacifists are criticising a u.s. administration that has made very clear that they are stopping the immediate threat to the survival and security of the civilized citizens of the western world. i believe they have gone about it responsibly so far. i regret innocent casualties....conflict is a last resort, but limited conflict is required. i heard rumsfeldt state his regret a few times - i do not think he is arrogant. He even had the perspecuity to indentify the terrorists as followers of 'the theology of self'... which i believe, requires a very statesmanlike view to make such a profound observation. He is not a politician, but an appointed executive asking for integrity in his department and throughout the government...he even risked his life to go immediately to rescue victims at the Pentagon, knowing all the while he is a target...i know of no other cabinet member who did this... i agree with c.s. lewis, a peace loving man, but not an appeaser, when he said this about pacifism which is ill timed: "In the [Leftist] society the number of pacifists will either be large enough to cripple the state as a belligerent, or not.... If it is large enough, then you have handed over the state which does tolerate pacifists to its totalitarian neighbor who does not. Pacifism of this kind is taking the straight road to a world in which there will be no pacifists." - --C.S. Lewis vince, you do not seem to understand that the Taliban offer cannot be trusted in good faith. It has to be done on the terms of the allies, for if it was not, they could be in charge, in fact, of his escape -or any one of a multitude of scenarios that would only serve their interests to embarass the allies. Bin Laden is not only heavily allied to the Taliban, he has done many tasks, including assasination, on their behalf; he's been their defence minister, in effect. And as Kakki has already said, al queda has already admitted guilt and even called for more airplane attacks on american cities. If the Taliban were honest about giving him up; having heard him make further threats of airplane attacks - they should just give him up. Period. Likely, he would still face a kind of Nuremberg Trial, which is too generous to say the least for such a wretch. same with the two recent articles recently posted on the list. The authors fail to recognize that you cannot negotiate with terrorists. Pierre Trudeau proved that in successfully defeating the FLQ in Quebec. And anne, they do not just number a few hundred - bin laden trained 5000 of them and then sent them into the west with their assignments. And that is just one of the scores of terrorist organizations, most of the radical islamist ones being interlinked. You cannot negotiate with bin laden's cell and expect the rest to just smell flowers. It is already, in de facto, an u.n. alliance, including a majority of muslim countries. For God's sake, for the life of me i cannot easily understand or stomach less support coming from many jmdl listers than yassar arafat for the allied effort! or turkey, or pakistan, or syria, or egypt, or iran...! after the above said, i do understand the great desire for peace on earth that are revealed here. I am very concerned that two things be avoided: both world war III and totalitarianism developing on our own home fronts. I believe that a strong 'conservative response' is the best way to avoid this in the future - as it would have been during the weimar republic in germany. Churchill advocated going in with the 2 million strong french army as early as 1932 or earlier to disarm the naziis and remove hitler. But the appeasers like baldwin and ramsay macdonald thwarted him. If Churchill had succeeded in his plan, there would have been no holocaust! So i think it would be well that pacifists every- where at this time reflect on how to avoid appeasement and thereby giving ground to even greater evils that are even now being planned by the terrorists. Just yesterday, for instance, plans were found on them to attack the nuclear power stations in canada. The U.S. Catholic Conference of Bishops has released a statement as a guideline for the current response....the properly restrained use of force to defeat the terrorists. Secondly, I believe to be tough now has to be supplimented by our own spiritual return to God through Christ Jesus. One of the general points made in the new testament in its prophecies is - even when plagues come to the earth, men still 'did not repent of their wickedness' nor 'return to the Lord'. Personal repentance is primary. Christ did not denounce the governing roman empire, but called all people as individuals to repentance. That being said, i still would like a few wiser policies internationally. I would like the U.S. to purchase its oil elsewhere than saudi arabia; we've had since 1973 the warning of our dependancy on arab oil. Canada alone has the reserves to make up for it. Then it would follow that, even though the Saudi's asked the U.S. to establish a military base on the arab peninsula, i think we should look elsewhere and not be situated near the holy sites of islam - just being practical, given that the wahabiists cannot stomach it (even though jews or christians don't get too riled about bases near our holy sites....holy sites themselves are a somewhat illusionary perspective....the true Mt Zion is heavenly) ... just one of many ideas... i've rambled on but i hope you catch my drift...our chief hope is in heaven, in our Creator and Maker. He will send the Prince of Peace back shortly to establish an eternal peace, with Immanuel ('God with us') in our midst. In the meantime, we have to be tough on those who would destroy our children, if only for our children's sake and not our own. Trudeau showed that you can eradicate terrorism if you are tough enough. In this larger situation, perhaps you can only approximate that. And then hope - and pray with all our hearts - that we may have a respite from that armageddon the prophets have warned us about.... so peace to all of you of good intention, though we may disagree, as kakki and kate have recently said, about the means for a better world... statement of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops: http://www.nccbuscc.org/comm/archives/2001/01-175.htm shane ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:07:52 +0100 From: colin Subject: Bridget Jones NJC Just saw this film and enjoyed it muchly. Renee whatsit I have seen before in a weird but enjoyable film where she was a waitress who saw her hubby/boyfirend get murdered by Chris Rock. Shje was chased around the country by Rock and Morgan Freeeman. The point to this? Well is she American or English? Her english accent in Bridget Jones was excellent if she isn't British. I thought film was a real treat for using an ordinary woman instead of a Julia Roberts type. An excellent actress she is. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:01:05 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: response to terrorism (njc) > to the technicians who corrected my typos > on J.R.R. Tolkien: you slammed my typos > but ignored my point. immanuel is coming! I saw the point but chose not to comment and still do not really have a response. I have read The Lord of the Rings most likely around 12 times over the past 15 years and to me The Return of the King means the return of Aragorn, and everything else that ensues. The two towers are the Isengard, the home of Saruman, and the tower in Morder in which the Dark Lord, Sauron resides, and strikes fear into the hearts of men. I see the parallel you are making but it is not one that I would have made myself and is not something I can immediately say that I agree or disagree with. I did think it was interesting that The Lord of the Rings was opening this fall, and even mentioned that on list several weeks ago. It is interesting how often the same symbolism appears in myths from all time periods and cultures, ie...as with Osiris/Dionysis and Jesus Christ. This is something that has been studied heavily and I find it very intriguing. I'm also not a technician. However, Tolkien is as important to me as Joni Mitchell is to so many people. If his works are going to be discussed then they should be done so correctly. You don't see anyone writing about "Song to a Redchested Woodpecker" :~} Victor in Athens NP: John Martyn Solid Air Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 12:07:25 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: US/IRA (njc) Jacky wrote: > I think you are taking this too personally, Kakki. Because the original statements were so blanket "Americans support the IRA." As an American I did take it personally. >We are talking about governments here. But the U.S. government does not support the IRA and never has. >In the UK we have lived with IRA terrorism for many >years which, perhaps, hasn't had much coverage in the >US press. No, we have always had much coverage when IRA terrorism has struck in the U.K. But I haven't seen many articles here in the U.S. saying that we are supporting it or providing examples of who is supporting it. I think most Americans don't pay much attention to it, not because they are callous, but because the U.S. is a big complex country with so many of its own problems that we tend to primarily focus on. >You can say that to me and I will agree with you and I >will not be upset by it at all because, although I live in a >democracy, I am one small voice with no influence. I thought about this some more and you know it is exactly because we are free democracies that these terrorist and subversive, hateful groups often flourish. Not that I am advocating less freedom, but many of the democratic countries have bent over backwards for many years to allow the hate groups "free speech" and tolerance of any viewpoint, no matter how hideous, that there has been a huge downside in their going to the limit in raising funds and using the "tolerance" and freedom against the very people who are providing it for them. A well-known example here is allowing Nazi groups to have a parade in the predominately Jewish city of Skokie, Ill. However, there are more insidious groups at work in the U.S. who provide a fake cover for their fundraising to lure in naive people. I can imagine that some connected with the IRA would no doubt put up a donation box in Catholic churches in the U.S. asking only for money "for the poor orphans of Northern Ireland." Many people, unfortunately are just not savvy or educated enough to suspect it may be really going to the IRA and that they are being duped. This same type of con game goes on in the U.S. with many other subversive groups and that is well-documented. There have already been reports of some groups asking for money "for the poor chiildren of Afghanistan" and found that it was a complete front for people actually raising money for the terrorists. Much of the current anti-war movement in the U.S. is being directly orchestrated by radical socialist and Marxist groups who are openly and actively against Americans' way of life. This is not some right-wing rant, either - I learned about it from another anti-war group who is trying to distinguish and separate themselves from the anti-American subversive groups. This is all why we must all try to stand united in eliminating terrorist groups and not let ourselves fall prey to those who are duping us and trying to divide and dilute our resolve, IMO. Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #485 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?