From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #483 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, October 14 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 483 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: October 14 [les@jmdl.com] RE: bruce willis njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: This gay thing NJC ["Marian" ] Re: movies, books, NJC ["Marian" ] Re: tit for tatNJC [colin ] Re: An Offer of Healing (NJC) [colin ] Re: ten desert island movies (njc) ["hell" ] Re: This gay thing NJC [colin ] Re: ten desert island movies (njc) [colin ] Re: Report from Afghanistan NJC [colin ] maggie mcnally!!!!! njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Q Review of 'Shadows & Light' ["Paul Castle" ] Re: j.r. tolkien (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Joni meets Phil [Gertus@aol.com] Re: maggie mcnally!!!!! njc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Joni meets Phil [colin ] Re: An Offer of Healing (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: dates and measurements (njc) ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Clive and the postino [Mauski4648@aol.com] Re: putting it all into perspective (njc) [Vince Lavieri ] Re: ten desert island movies (njc) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: j.r. tolkien (njc) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: putting it all into perspective (njc) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Serendipity (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: maggie mcnally!!!!! njc ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: j.r. tolkien/ The king (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] njc CBS news report [Vince Lavieri ] Re: j.r. tolkien/ The king (njc) ["shane mattison" ] Bay Area Get-together -- yes!!! [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Re: ten desert island movies (njc) ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: njc CBS news report ["Victor Johnson" ] Two Down - Two to go! [Susan Guzzi ] Re: Two Down - Two to go! ["Mark or Travis" ] afghan children and people, refugees njc ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: War and ideology (njc) [] Re: Two Down - Two to go! NJC! [Susan Guzzi ] about pacifism etc (njc) ["Kate Bennett" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 03:00:38 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: October 14 On October 14 this article was published: 1998: "Joni Mitchell, Still Good And Mad" - Washington Post (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/981014wp.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 635 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 04:09:14 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: bruce willis njc all right, all right. here you go! http://terence.clarence.com/galleries/images/piselli03/piswillis.html love, w - -----Mensaje original----- De: colin [mailto:colin@tantra-apso.com] Enviado el: Sabado, 13 de Octubre de 2001 08:51 p.m. Para: Wally Kairuz CC: joni Asunto: Re: bruce willis njc well thank you. I was disappointed tho. As it came from you i was expecting a NUDE Brucie! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 09:24:22 +0100 From: "Marian" Subject: Re: This gay thing NJC colin wrote: > quash their tender side, their vulnerablity, their fear > and other things not considered masculine. TRhat is > why we have so much trouble with men as adults, > violence, wars, abuse etc. The thing I cannot understand > is that women have been fightin this for a long long time > yet they are still bringing up men to be what they are fighting > against! I know women who are trying to raise sensitive sons, but you have to remember that the fathers have equal if not greater influence, plus there are all the cultural influences and especially peer pressure. A mother can only do so much. Marian marian@jmdl.com http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/guitar.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 09:32:56 +0100 From: "Marian" Subject: Re: movies, books, NJC On Sat, 13 Oct 2001 10:21:57 -0400 Yael Harlap wrote: > The Breakfast Club Yes! What a great movie. I want to add that one to my list. Marian marian@jmdl.com http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/guitar.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 09:15:50 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: tit for tatNJC > As > much as their religious views may be skewed, they are not advocating and > committing acts of terrorism. they do. they bomb abortion clinics! And yes, they are a minority-however, I asked you to imagine of they weren't. > > > Those who think they should do > nothing are just as much wishing innocent people to be killed. I don't think anyone thinks we should do nothing. > > > Kakki - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 09:21:40 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: An Offer of Healing (NJC) what a beautiful thing you did Ashara. Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 21:16:26 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: ten desert island movies (njc) Mark wrote: > > Moonstruck (can't help it, I love this movie. Cher is great, but > > even better is the ensemble of older and not well-known actors. > > Wonderful score - a friend of mine is in it for a few seconds! - > > and a wonderful love letter to Brooklyn) > > Arrggh! Another favorite I left out! Olympia Dukakis absolutely > cracks me up in this one. And Cher really proves she can act. Great > movie all the way around. The best romantic comedy made in the last > 20 years, imo. I'd add this to my second twenty for sure - and the movie that proved Cher can act (as fas as I'm concerned) was Mask. She was wonderful. And if you like Olympia Dukakis, you should check out "Steel Magnolias". She and Shirley MacLaine are hilarious (although Sally Fields annoys me a lot)! A real "chick-flick" though. Another good one is "Crimes Of The Heart" with Jessica Lange, Dianne Keaton and Sissy Spacek - great performances. Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 09:35:41 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: This gay thing NJC Marian wrote: > colin wrote: > > > quash their tender side, their vulnerablity, their fear > > and other things not considered masculine. TRhat is > > why we have so much trouble with men as adults, > > violence, wars, abuse etc. The thing I cannot understand > > is that women have been fightin this for a long long time > > yet they are still bringing up men to be what they are fighting > > against! > > I know women who are trying to raise sensitive sons, but you have to > remember that the fathers have equal if not greater influence, Yes, there are other infulences as you say. However, I was tlaking about, and didn't explain so it's my fault, what i see mothers doing all the time. It seems to me that mothers do have more influence in the early years and these are the formative ones. Of course not ALL mothers. I have in mind a woman I know, a feminist and lesbian, who admonished her son, in front of me, for crying, calling him a sisssy! I was astounded! The point is it is the raisng of chilfdren that causes the problems. I see it all around me-they stereotyping of children. I see girls and boys being treated differently. I see boys being encouraged not to show emotion. I also hear women(bear in mind that most of interaction is with women) chide and joke about men who are 'soft'. Yes adult men can and do do this too, I know they do intimately, but they are doing what they have been taught to do. Child rearing is mainly done by women, they have the greater influence. A really good chance to change things. I do not intend to blame women for the mess we are in! No it is down to all of us. I just feel that people don't real;ly accept that it is change in the way we relate to children and the way we teach them that will have the greatest and most lasting effect on this world of ours. With each new birth we have the opportunity to change our world, to raise a child who is in touch with all of themselves, who will not be afraid to feel, who will not hate either bits of herself or himself, or others. We are missing the greatest opportunity we have. If children are loved as they ARE and not moulded into what society expects them to be, we will have a greater chance of peace. > plus there > are all the cultural influences and especially peer pressure. A mother can > only do so much. > > Marian > marian@jmdl.com > http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/guitar.htm - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 09:41:09 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: ten desert island movies (njc) > And if you like Olympia Dukakis, you should check out "Steel Magnolias". > She and Shirley MacLaine are hilarious (although Sally Fields annoys me a > lot)! a great film. I agree with you about sally-ther is somethbing annoying about her! I loved her as the Flying Nun tho, but I was just a boy! > A real "chick-flick" though. Another good one is "Crimes Of The > Heart" with Jessica Lange, Dianne Keaton and Sissy Spacek - great > performances. haven't seen this. I really like Sissy Spacek asnd Jessica Lang and sometimes enjoy Diane too. Diane was in a recent film about 3 sisters, the other two being Meg YRyan and her from Friends whose name escapes me right now. Anyway, I thought during this film-who are you kidding? Diane was MUCH older than the part she was trying to play. Were we supposed to pretend she wasn't? Anpther actress I really like is Jo Beth Wuilliams and we don't see enough of her. > > > Hell > ____________________________ > "To have great poets, there must be > great audiences too." - Walt Whitman > > hell@ihug.co.nz > Hell's Personal Photo Page: > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm > > Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: > http://www.nbls.co.nz - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 09:47:09 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Report from Afghanistan NJC Thank you. Yes it was interesting. I was wondering why you and others have ignored the remarks made concerning the American people's fundning of the IRA? I think it is pertinent right now. Kakki wrote: > Colin, > > Here is a report from your U.K. Times which is enlightening. Kakki > > http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2001/10/14/stiusausa01034.html - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 06:34:23 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: maggie mcnally!!!!! njc dear and beautiful maggie! no one chops veggies like you! happy birthday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 11:14:46 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: Q Review of 'Shadows & Light' > > Mitchell's recurrent clashes > > with cloth-headed sexism, particularly > > pronounced during the first phase of > > her progress Catherine anima_rising@yahoo.ca asked > Does anyone have any idea what cloth-headed sexism is > supposed to mean, as is this quote from the Q article: When I first heard Joni - not that long after the release of STAS - I was immediately attracted by her musicality and lyricism - I'd not heard the like before - and, when I first saw her at the Festival Hall here, not long after, it was pretty irrelevant to me liking her and wanting to buy her albums that she happened to also be an extremely attractive and charismatic woman. So I, too, was amazed to read in Karen O'Brien's book that some bright spark record company marketing executive chappy had chosen to concentrate on a nudge nudge wink wink 'liberated' (know what I mean?!) media hippy chick image to launch Joni's music to the world. Whilst she did apparently retain a very high level of control over her artistic image (for the day, at least), it seems that 'the star-maker machinery' was more interested in what we would call "going for the tabloids". I admit I've been guilty myself on occasion (in the past!!) of saying to friends that "For my money, Joni Mitchell is by far the best female guitarist" - without really thinking what a cloth-headed sexist remark that is. &&&&& (&&&&&&&&) ( < (.) (.) > ) () ( ---- ) ... PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 08:39:05 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: j.r. tolkien (njc) > > *fellowship of the rings > > > > *the twin towers > > The *Two* Towers, not the twin towers. And I don't think Tolkien had > anything to do with Nostrodamus. Nor do I see any significance in > this. And it's The Fellowship of the *Ring*, not rings, and J. R. R. Tolkien. If there's anything that I'm serious about, it's Tolkien. Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 09:00:06 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni meets Phil From the Daily Telegraph 13th Oct 2001 by Craig Brown. >>How We Met (5): Joni and Phil Mitchell Joni Mitchell: I'd been playing Hyde Park. The sunshine had been holding my guitar that day, and the gentle breeze had been strumming it. It was all so sweet and high. We were stardust. I'd just come offstage, and I was on a cloud, walking in the park, getting my head what had been blowing our minds, listening to the hissing of summer lawns, humming a simple song of trees and leaves and merry-go-rounds to myself. And then this guy comes up. Phil Mitchell: And I said, cut it out, willya? Can't hear myself think with that racket goin' on. I've 'ad your bloody 'umming up to 'ear! Joni: I'd never heard any human soul speak that way before. So blunt. So coarse. So.....direct. I thought to myself "This is the voice of heaven." Phil: And she carried on with that hummin' like nobody's business, so I says, "Give it a rest. Shut it!" Joni: I stopped humming. And there was this silence. I looked at my beautiful stranger and I said, "You are the sun. And I am the moon. Maybe we should get together." Phil: And I said, "Don't start" I fort to meself "I've just abaht had enuffa this!" But I looked at her agin and I fort, "Hmm...tasty bird." Joni: We were married the next day, two doves afloat on a sea of love. But soon our boats began to drift apart. Phil: It was always songs, songs, songs. Mornin', noon and wodever. I couldn't take it. I were that stressed. In the end, I jist snapped. I said, "I don't bloody care if you've looked at life from both sides now, Joni. I don't wantcha to look at it from any sides no more. - ave you got that?" Joni: So I went along, just me and my guitar, to the Queen Victoria bar, and I offered to play for free, singing of soft summer days and silk in the evening sun. Phil: And they all screamed, "Give it a bloody rest, Joni!" Joni: Nobody stopped to hear me, though I wanted to play so sweet. So I left with a sad farewell, my friends. Phil: I never 'eard from 'er again. Good riddance or what? Tell you what, I learnt my lesson. I'll never marry a singer-songwriter agin. Nah. I bin dahn that road.<< Wierd! Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 10:15:18 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: maggie mcnally!!!!! njc HAPPY BIRTHDAY MAGGIE!!!!! LOVE, Rose rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 15:47:02 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Joni meets Phil Thanks jacky. only one small comment: Phil finks. he doesn't think! god, todays omnibus left my face wet. this is definately the best soap and certainly the best acted. pity there are no likaeble people in it-cept maybe Pat and Sonia. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 10:35:59 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: An Offer of Healing (NJC) << Well, if she had asked me to stand on my head and spit nickels, I would have also said yes, so of course, I agreed. >> This would also be how many of us would describe our relationship to you, Ashara! ;~) Thanks on behalf of the people you helped to heal. Bob, practicing his nickel spitting... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 07:43:14 -0700 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: dates and measurements (njc) >For whatever strange reason, my family (including aunts, uncles, and >cousins) calls a green bell pepper -- are you ready for this? -- a >mango honestly did not know what a real mango is until I was about 20 years >old. My mother makes a dish she calls "stuffed mangoes." Green bell >peppers stuffed with ground beef and tomato sauce. > Lori, YOU ARE NOT ALONE!! My mother also called green peppers..... mangos. TOO weird. Of course growing up I didn't know it was weird of her to say mango when she was really talking about green peppers. We said "pop" and I still do. I can still hear her saying to my father as he went out the door to get the groceries: "Daddy, get me a couple or three of real nice (meaning big) mangos." (she grew up in Eastern Kentucky) (the daddy thing) Your other regional things are very weird like "read" the house. ;-) Of course I grew up eating catsup on macaroni and cheese and still do. Don't want it unless I have catsup on top. Siblings and their children the same. Bree _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 11:48:27 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: putting it all into perspective (njc) I've been following the recent political discussions here with much interest. There have been valid points raised by all involved. There have also been many opinions, some I agree with. Others I don't. Kakki mentioned the "suitcase nukes." From what I've read, we think they (al Qaeda) got a hold of some. They may also have some raw radioactive material. It sounds like we don't have proof positive. Still, I assume the best strategy is to figure out who has the technical expertise to use these weapons and arrest them. (Apparently al Qaeda did try to import some former Soviet talent, because they couldn't figure out how to use various technology.) I believe Shane mentioned there being thousands of followers. Yes, that's true. But, in fact, there are probably only (well, you know all things being relative) a few hundred, if that, who are willing and capable of planning and leading a cell to do truly devastating acts. (Look around your company, your city, even this list. How many real leaders are there?) I'm not disputing your point Shane, simply clafifying. The few hundred (or possibly fewer) actually want to "destroy the table." Many thousands more would be content with "a place at the table." If we silence the ones bent on destruction, we have a chance at negotiation. And, for those who wonder what I mean by "silence," I'll point out that it's advantageous from the point of view of investigation that we arrest the destroyers and not destroy them. Often the destroyers are arrogant enough to boast of their acts and future plans. We need that information. I'm sure we all feel threatened. And we are. But, before you let that threat ruin your life and take all joy, just look at the sky, the earth under your feet, the house next door. They're still here. Feel your breath. You're still here. We all have today. We have each other. What we don't have is immortality. We do have the ability not to let our death walk with us. Kakki wondered privately how I could remain positive in my situation. It's because today I breathe. I don't let my death walk with me. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 11:51:43 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: Serendipity (njc) Thanks to whoever recommended this movie. Just the right film at the right time! Yes, I noticed the 2 Nick Drake songs. But, what was the instrumental that was playing during the re-encounter skating rink scene? I could almost place it, but then it ended. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 11:54:30 EDT From: Mauski4648@aol.com Subject: Clive and the postino Right you are about the postino, especially the scene where Neruda explains to the postman what metaphors are while walking by the beach....Karin From Germany ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 12:09:42 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: putting it all into perspective (njc) Anne Sandstrom wrote: > What we don't have is > immortality. We do have the ability not to let our death walk with us. Kakki > wondered privately how I could remain positive in my situation. It's because > today I breathe. I don't let my death walk with me. > Anne, it is words like these that bring light and life to us all! It is also words like these that I borrow for use in sermons and everyone thinks of me as being so wise! I'm not of course, I just have great sources! Vince PS Ashara, thanks for the airport words, and do you think that a really great fundraiser for the JMDL would be at the next JoniFest to have Bob standing on his head spitting nickels and everyone pledge for as long as he is able to do it? I think people would travel from all over just to see that! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 12:11:24 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni meets Phil In a message dated 14/10/01 15:35:21 GMT Daylight Time, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: > only one small comment: Phil finks. he doesn't think! Very true but I didn't write it! > > god, todays omnibus left my face wet. this is definately the best soap and > certainly the best acted. pity there are no likaeble people in it-cept maybe > Pat > and Sonia. > Unfortunately, I've never actually watched Eastenders! Hard to believe, I know, but I just don't have the time. My kids watch it though and were very excited a few years ago because Grant Mitchell was supposed to have bought a house just down the road from here and was certainly spotted by a few people, but not by us. Also, Colin, you wrote:- >Tit for tat is not moral. The killing of 7000 people at the wtc was appaling. the killing of inncent afghans is likewise. shifting the blame to the Taleban for the deaths of afghans doesn't wash.< I'm with you on this and also your comments regarding US support for the IRA and Tony Blair's recent activities. What does he think he's doing? All the best Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 17:29:27 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Joni meets Phil > >Tit for tat is not moral. The killing of 7000 people at the wtc was appaling. > the killing of inncent afghans is likewise. shifting the blame to the Taleban > for the deaths of afghans doesn't wash.< > > I'm with you on this and also your comments regarding US support for the IRA > and Tony Blair's recent activities. What does he think he's doing? making sure he is re elected...? > > All the best > Jacky - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 09:53:59 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: ten desert island movies (njc) > I'd add this to my second twenty for sure - and the movie that proved Cher > can act (as fas as I'm concerned) was Mask. She was wonderful. I was convinced after seeing 'Come Back to the Five & Dime Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean'. Whatever else you think of Cher, she is a talented, natural actress. She's great in 'Silkwood' too. > > And if you like Olympia Dukakis, you should check out "Steel Magnolias". > She and Shirley MacLaine are hilarious (although Sally Fields annoys me a > lot)! A real "chick-flick" though. Another good one is "Crimes Of The > Heart" with Jessica Lange, Dianne Keaton and Sissy Spacek - great > performances. > > Hell I've seen both of these, Hell. I agree Olympia & Shirley MacLaine are the best things about 'Steel Magnolias'. Sally had kind of a thankless part in this one. I loved her in 'Norma Rae', however, another favorite I forgot to include! I also really like 'Crimes of the Heart', especially Jessica Lange & Sissy Spacek. Dianne Keaton kind of annoys me in parts of it but I love the scene where she chases their cousin Chick out of the house & all around the back yard with a broom. And Sissy's character always makes me laugh! Mark E ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 09:58:00 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: maggie mcnally!!!!! njc Maggie, I still remember you as being one of the sweetest people I met at Ashara's two years ago. Have a Wonderful Birthday! You deserve it! Love, Mark E (in Seattle) > dear and beautiful maggie! no one chops veggies like you! > happy birthday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 10:03:54 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: j.r. tolkien (njc) (> > And it's The Fellowship of the *Ring*, not rings, and J. R. R. Tolkien. If > there's anything that > I'm serious about, it's Tolkien. > > Victor Thanks, Victor. I noticed that t0o but it was the other error that stood out. I'm glad somebody else point that one out. The Lord of the Rings would definitely be on my desert island list. I've read them several times over the years. I saw a preview for the first movie recently and am very excited. It looks like they may have done it right. Keep you fingers and furry toes crossed! Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 10:11:45 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: putting it all into perspective (njc) Words of wisdom from a truly brave soul. I admire your spirit tremendously, Anne. Thank you for this. I knew it but needed to see it put into words to remember it. Love & Healing to you, Mark E. > > I'm sure we all feel threatened. And we are. But, before you let that threat > ruin your life and take all joy, just look at the sky, the earth under your > feet, the house next door. They're still here. Feel your breath. You're > still here. We all have today. We have each other. What we don't have is > immortality. We do have the ability not to let our death walk with us. Kakki > wondered privately how I could remain positive in my situation. It's because > today I breathe. I don't let my death walk with me. > > lots of love > Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 11:59:52 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: j.r. tolkien (njc) interesting, with the new film coming out this fall, the order of three of the books of j.r. tolkien: *fellowship of the rings *the two towers *the return of the king contrary to what mark e. states, no reference to nostradamus was either made or implied. what i think is significant is that the very king of kings will be returning soon... shane ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 13:51:20 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Serendipity (njc) > Thanks to whoever recommended this movie. Just the right film at the right > time! > Very welcome! Just the perfect movie for me too! > Yes, I noticed the 2 Nick Drake songs. But, what was the instrumental that > was playing during the re-encounter skating rink scene? I could almost place > it, but then it ended. > This was played twice, once when they were sneaking up towards the house in the woods, and the scene you mentioned. The song is "Black Dog" from Time of No Reply and is actually not an instrumental originally but works very well in this movie and also when it was used in "Practical Magic". A very haunting song, chilling...I found it interesting that they used Nick Drake as John Cusack was also in the movie, "High Fidelity" written by Nick Hornby who is a fan of Nick Drake, as he has made several references to him in his writing. Victor in Athens > lots of love > Anne Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 13:52:44 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: maggie mcnally!!!!! njc A very happy birthday to you Maggie!!! Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 13:57:16 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: j.r. tolkien/ The king (njc) > what i think is significant is that the very king > of kings will be returning soon... > What!!??!!! Elvis is coming back????? :>D Victor in Athens Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 11:19:47 -0700 (PDT) From: christopher blake Subject: Thisbe Nissen and Joni hi all! As i read the Hartford Courant's sunday "arts" section, as is my habit, i came across a curious little item. y'all may have discussed this previously but here i go: quoting Thisbe Nissen's article about her use of song lyrics in her novels: "My novel, 'The Good People of New York' would be about three pages long if you took out all the Joni Mitchell lyrics." has anyone read this book? how does she use the quotes? can anyone recommend it unconditionally? she mentions that one of her characters in another story spoke almost entirely in fleetwood mac lyrics so i wonder if that is the case in this book. Thisbe also mentions in the article that she "used to pretty much only listen to lesbian folksingers." i am pretty sure that Joni is not the former, and would cringe at the latter... p.s. i have not yet totaled the number of students who decided to "sign" Joni to their record labels yet, that will be appearing soon. have an awesome day - chris(topher) Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 14:56:34 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: njc CBS news report Just getting ready to leave for the movies and CBS news reports that the Taliban has offered (again) that if the US will release the evidence, they will turn over bin Laden to a (this part is a new variation) third country for trial. The US immediately rejected the offer, CBS news reports. If this is true, and it has been before that they have offered to give up bin Laden in exchange for the evidence being made public, and the current administration has refused, then we continue to wage war rather than release the evidence. And that speaks for itself. From almost the beginning, there has been an urging to take the evidence and go to the World Court or the War Crimes Tribunal and lay out the evidence for all the world to see. And that would allow the world to unite on the evidence in relation to the terrorists. The Taliban has said that they would turn him over of the evidence is presented to them. We have so many forums for doing this and we do not. If you don't trust the Taliban - and I don't especially - I'd still call their bluff before you do anything else. We are a country of law and the rule of law. We should be Americans about this. And on this, as an American who loves my country, I stand on what I said on 24 September for those who say that none of us have put forth what to do other than wage war: "Back to the Constitution which is the essence of what it means to be an American - a nation of laws, not people. Do we violate our own legal procedures by having no evidence, no proofs, no place where we lay these things out for the international community to judge, no place for bin Laden to hear the evidence against him (6th Amendment), no place to gain a verdict in our favor that would give such moral force to our cause of seeking punishment on those who did these terrorist acts on September 11? "Law, and our following that law, following the covenant of the Constitution that makes us a nation of law, this defines the United States and makes us the beacon of justice that we are. It is essential to our nation especially at this time to adhere to our Constitution. There must be a trial - before the War Crimes Tribunal, in absentia for bin Laden if he so chooses, or in the United Nations, but someplace. England and Libya came to agreement on how to try those accused in the Lockerbee bombing. We can certainly do the same if we seek that route. We must confirm our self-control and not act impulsively out of the emotions of the events. The rule of law is essential to America. The last question: do you know the words to "America," the words to "O beautiful for spacious skies." I provide them for those who do not know all three verses: O beautiful for spacious skies, For amber waves of grain; For purple mountain majesties Above the fruited plain! America! America! God shed His grace on thee, And crown thy good with brotherhood, From sea to shining sea. O beautiful for heroes proved In liberating strife, Who more than self their country loved, And mercy more than life! America! America! May God thy gold refine, Till all success be nobleness, And every gain divine. O beautiful for patriot dream That sees beyond the years Thine alabaster cities gleam, Undimmed by human tears! America! America! God mend thine every flaw, Confirm thy soul in self control, Thy liberty in law. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 13:19:09 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: Re: j.r. tolkien/ The king (njc) lol....ya got me.... but victor, elvis is already back and having "trouble with girls"... the trailer for which is just what the doctor ordered... http://video.aristotle.net:8080/ramgen/epe/trailers/TroubleWithGirls.rm shane - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Johnson" To: "shane mattison" Cc: "joni" Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2001 11:57 AM Subject: Re: j.r. tolkien/ The king (njc) > > what i think is significant is that the very king > > of kings will be returning soon... > > > > What!!??!!! > > Elvis is coming back????? > > > :>D > > Victor in Athens > > > Victor Johnson > http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson > > "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, > Come when you lay down your head. > While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, > That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." > Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 16:09:42 EDT From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Bay Area Get-together -- yes!!! Darice -- Yes!! I was going to suggest that very thing when I got back from RI -- what do you think of doing it on her birthday -- Nov 7th?? -- but I am completely psyched to meet in person a couple of the people I've chatted with in SF and environs (having finally met my first live jmdler yesterday; hint: think small blue imaginary beings). I haven't gotten through the rest of the latest digest yet, but i had to get right off and respond the moment I saw your post. I hope others have responded! Thrilled at the thought of a get together, Warmly, Walt Breen (usually in SF, but in R.I. at the moment) np: Joni covers # 12, borrowed from a gracious and funny smurph (whoops). Michael Holland has a nice voice (Case of You); never heard of him. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 15:11:47 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: ten desert island movies (njc) >Hell wrote: > And if you like Olympia Dukakis, you should check out "Steel Magnolias". > She and Shirley MacLaine are hilarious (although Sally Fields annoys me a > lot)! A real "chick-flick" though. Another good one is "Crimes Of The > Heart" with Jessica Lange, Dianne Keaton and Sissy Spacek - great > performances. > > Hell You are right hell. A major chick flick. I hated it. It was like pulling the remaining hairs I have out of my head to sit through it. Of course, every female I know was oohing and aahing throughout. mack > ____________________________ > "To have great poets, there must be > great audiences too." - Walt Whitman > > hell@ihug.co.nz > Hell's Personal Photo Page: > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm > > Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: > http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 13:41:43 -0700 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: Re: San Francisco get-together Sounds great to me, Darice. Please count me in. - -Julius > I have noticed so many SF area people on the list and it has been a long time > since we have had a Bay Area Joni-list get-together. > I am happy to help arrange one (before the holiday season ?!?!?) > What does everyone else think about this, MG?, Walt?, Richard?, Julius?, > others? > Darice ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 16:55:43 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: njc CBS news report > If this is true, and it has been before that they have offered to give > up bin Laden in exchange for the evidence being made public, and the > current administration has refused, then we continue to wage war rather > than release the evidence. And that speaks for itself I don't think releasing the evidence is the real issue here. The Taliban's refusal to cooperate with the United States indicates that they support the terrorism and would have it continue. The U.S. and England and others are striking key military targets and seeking to dismantle the Taliban regime and in essence, disable and eliminate terrorism. If someone breaks into a private home, attempts to rape the resident, and is shot and killed I would support the victim who fired the gun and be glad that she was able to protect herself and not be harmed as opposed to what might have happened if she had not been armed, and possibly killed herself. In the case of the United States being attacked, there was no instant action taken and several weeks went by before any military response. The Taliban was given a chance to cooperate with the United States and chose not to. We should we negotiate with people who would fly commericial airliners into skyscrapers and needlessly kill 6000 innocent people? How does releasing evidence, if it were released, do anything to stop the development of terrorism and bring those responsible to justice? If indeed the Taliban cannot be trusted, we should we agree to anything on their terms? Before this all happened, I would have taken an anti millitary stance, but the events of the past month have forced me to question that and I cannot so easily believe that the United States is not justified in the bombings of Afghanistan. Violence, by its very essence, is inherent in nature. So is sex. Both are powerful and both can kill. But not all sex is bad and in many cases it is necessary. Perhaps violence is necessary in this case. Victor in Athens Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 15:22:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Two Down - Two to go! Well here is the post I've been avoiding, because I am so indecisive ... my desert island movies & books ... songs & albums to follow later. Actually it's a miracle I ever got any of these narrowed down but here goes .... Movies: 1. All About Eve ... everything after this in no particular order. One of the last great movies with great dialogue, not to mention 4 or 5 GREAT performances. "And what will Eve have? A milkshake." 2. Being There ... It's so outrageous a notion but because of it's direction and the fabulous Peter Sellers it seems possible! 3. Bonnie & Clyde ... for every reason ever written and Estelle Parsons - "My Eye! My EYE!" 4. Harold & Maude ... Performance, writing music and reasons we've all written about here before. 5. The Manchurian Candidate ... a very good movie made great by one of the most compelling performances I have ever seen - Angela Lansbury. I can't believe we don't hear more about her in this role, way underrated and overlooked. 6. Network ... no mistake here to see a second Faye Dunaway movie. Although they did not like each other in real life, Bette Davis & Faye Dunaway both attack a role in the same way and are similar - to me anyway. 7. Stage Door ... Hepburn, Eve, Ginger, Lucy, Ann all the gals are here and they all live together hmmmm? 8. The Shawshenk Redemption ... Robbins & Freeman, it's inspirational, it's well done and different from all other prison movies. 9. The Wizard of Oz ... how could I keep a movie off this list that I have seen at least 40 times. Also my only musical and the movie I watched with my niece Angela her first time. I always cry when Judy sings "Over the Rainbow" and my little niece noticed and held onto me during the whole song. 10. Rear Window ... Love Hitchcock. Grace Kelly - so nice to look at. Jimmy Stewart & Thelma Ritter, writing - also love "Rope." Honorable Mention - Pulp Fiction so close to making it. May have yesterday. Books: 1. Siddhartha - Hermann Hesse (my spiritual guide) 2. Naked - David Sedaris (my satirical guide) 3. The Bell Jar - Sylvia Plath (so much talent so sad) 4. Pentimento - Lillian Hellman (makes me want to be a writer) 5. The Color Purple - Alice Walker (so empowering) 6. Anything by Anais Nin (beautiful verse just to read aloud on the island) 7. Music for Chameleons - Truman Capote (I love short story writing) 8. Catcher in the Rye - J. D. Salinger (just a classic you can read over & over) 9. Bring On The Empty Horses - David Niven (one of the best books on Hollywood) 10. Atlas Shrugged - Ayn Rand (philosophically my opposite but a great novel nonetheless) Honorable mentions: To Kill a Mockingbird & The Women's Room. Well that's that ... only 2 more list to go! Peace Susan Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 15:53:11 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Two Down - Two to go! > 7. Stage Door ... Hepburn, Eve, Ginger, Lucy, Ann all > the gals are here and they all live together hmmmm? Another one of my favorites. This is another one that has some fantastic dialogue in it and an amazing ensemble cast. Kate Hepburn & Ginger Rogers bristle at one another and some of Ginger's quips are priceless. Eve Arden and Lucille Ball get in some great ones too. > > 1. Siddhartha - Hermann Hesse (my spiritual guide) > For me it would be 'Demian'. > > 4. Pentimento - Lillian Hellman (makes me want > to be a writer) > I'd have to say 'Three'. It's a single volume with all three of the memoirs in it & some additional commentary by Hellman. Great choices, Susan! I think we'd get along on that island very well! Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 19:49:13 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: afghan children and people, refugees njc Watching a Msnbc documentary, National Geographic on the refugees in Afghanistan, at least this portion of it. All those sweet, poor little children. Sick, with sores everywhere, dying, hungry. Breaks my heart. I work as a nurse in the convalescent center in this little town of 300, in oblivion. The amount of food that they throw away each day is unreal. They serve these frail, old folks such outrageous portions of food and the rest goes down the disposal. For example, a 100 lb. 90 woman gets a full bowl of oats, 2 pieces of bacon, 2 biscuits, a lg. glass of milk, and a small juice, for breakfast. Of course, she and the others eat very little of this. These proportions and my struggles to do anything about it from a nursing standpoint or any standpoint whatever are another story. Anyway, all that food thrown away. They put it all into a 50 gallon plastic bucket underneath the disposal. Full every day. Most of it untouched food. What the starving of the world could do with our waste, and how very happy they would be to get it. If only we could, if only we would, if only....................... Breaks my heart. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 02:03:27 +0100 From: Subject: Re: ten desert island movies (njc) Five Easy Pieces A Hard Day's Night Nashville To Sir With Love Last Picture Show A Clockwork Orange The 39 Steps Fat City If... Manhattan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 02:04:17 +0100 From: Subject: Re: War and ideology (njc) Colin wrote: > > I'd like to know why everyone forgets or refuses to acknowldege that the people > of the USA provided the IRA with the means to kill us in Broitain. > The US gov never supported that organisation. A small minority of misguided americans did. > Also, his list, Bush's, of most wanted are only those that affect America. No > Ira, no Basque, no anyone else. Given that Blair has just recently released the IRA terrorists from prison it wouldn't seem to make a lot of sense to have them on Bush's wanted list. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 19:24:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Two Down - Two to go! NJC! Hello Mark You know I have to agree with you ,,, we would get along well on that desert island. I think we've shown ourselves to be very "simpatico" since we've met - on list at least. And yes the dialogue (Stage Door)is sharp & sassy. And SSHHHHHH about the Hellman book, I like to think of it as another short story collection. Peace Susan P.S. Sorry about forgetting the NJC on my original post. - --- Mark or Travis wrote:> > 7. Stage Door ... Hepburn, Eve, Ginger, Lucy, Ann> all> > the gals are here and they all live together> hmmmm?> > Another one of my favorites. This is another one> that has some> fantastic dialogue in it and an amazing ensemble> cast. Kate Hepburn &> Ginger Rogers bristle at one another and some of> Ginger's quips are> priceless. Eve Arden and Lucille Ball get in some> great ones too.> >> > 1. Siddhartha - Hermann Hesse (my spiritual > guide)> >> For me it would be 'Demian'.> >> > 4. Pentimento - Lillian Hellman (makes me > want> > to be a writer)> >> I'd have to say 'Three'. It's a single volume with> all three of the> memoirs in it & some additional commentary by> Hellman.> > Great choices, Susan! I think we'd get along on> that island very> well!> > Mark E.> Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 19:59:29 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: about pacifism etc (njc) Shane you are right, you did not name me personally. But the remark you made about pacifism did not show an understanding of pacifism. It sounded sarcastic. Perhaps you were upset. I apologize for not understanding that & for taking it personally. Re: Rumsfeldt- I wasn't judging his heart, I was reacting to his words. It upset me that he said he would offer no apologies for killing innocent people. I never disagreed with you about the fact that you said those people on board the flight were heroes for bringing down that plane. I totally agreed with you on that. Somehow we've had a communication breakdown. I apologize for my part in creating that. I apologize to you or anyone elso who feels that I have been hurting morale through my online posts. I have pretty much said everything I felt I needed to. I believe I want the same thing as you do, its just that I disagree about the means. Kate wrote: <>> if they had stopped to ponder their pacifist auras<<<. To me, that shows no understanding of what pacifism is really about, nor does it serve any purpose other than taking a stab at someone. I was hoping we could all avoid in these discussions. I really like you & enjoy your posts but I think this remark was unnecessary to make your point.>> Kate - you took my remarks personally, because you are a pacifist. You were not named in my post at all, nor referred to. But you are the one who made it personal by saying, not only that i have no understanding of what pacifism is, but that somehow i took a stab at you personally. First, it still remains utterly unclear how any pacifist aboard UA flight 93 could have stopped the terrorists without being willing to get into a violent fight. No matter how you cut it, a violent fight had to be entered into if you were going to stop the terrorists. Therefore, if no one was willing to fight, then they couldn't have saved potentially hundreds, if not thousands of others who were targeted. As indicated, I have personally and compelling reasons to feel strongly about any (on board, kate, on board) who would not be willing to fight the terrorists: a love of mine might just as easily been the one to have her throat cut. Strong feelings? You bet! And how, pray tell, is that about you personally? Like you're the one person i'd surely have been thinking about. You were not the one "stabbed", but a friend and colleague on the very same United flight crews as my love, trish. Second, you are wrong and unjust to claim i therefore display "no understanding of what pacifism is really all about." I wrote, many weeks ago, in the JMDL, a piece about j.s. woodsworth, the sole conscientious objector in the Canadian parliament when the vote for conscription took place, after Canada declared war on Germany. In that post i described this belief: that one person like woodsworth may be called to be a pacifist; another, like Churchill called to be a warrior. In mystery then, does Providence weave the tapestries of our lives. Personally, i do not agree with woodsworth. In fact, i think his view was perilous to the future of free civilization, given nazi ambitions. However, it was an act of a kind of bravery perhaps, to be the sole M.P. to vote against conscription. It was but one incidence in a life (which i studied by the way) dedicated to certain principles of community and spiritual compassion, perhaps not too different from gandhi. And you have the right likewise to be pacifists, vince and you. But you are unjust yourself when you judge Secretary Rumsfeldt for not caring about stray bombs. I watched him; i detected only a sincere man, a caring man - a man of integrity. And you are unjust to judge him - you cannot know what goes on in his heart. Such charges do nothing for morale at such an imperiled moment of history, i believe. I have been a life long student of gandhi and his five principles of non-violence (contrary to your accusing me of being of no understanding), and i have kept them close by at various times, and pondered over each of them, seeing how i might use them in my own life. I have both met and talked personally with Indira Gandhi and Richard Attenborough, who directed his film master- piece on Mohandas Gandhi. And one of my best friends, from India, who i meet and have lunch with at the University of Calgary, Prof. Anthony Perel, specializes in Gandhi, was Head of the Department of Political Science at U. of C. and lectures at Cambridge on Gandhi. Finally, I have devoted the majority of years of my adult life to the study of Thomas Merton, who was also a Gandhi admirer to say the least. In spite of the above, i recognize, instead of my following any ideology across the board, that there are times in history that confront us with a sore need. Certain armed, trained terrorists numbering in the thousands, are bent upon the self-admitted genocide of millions of people in the civilized west. It is then incumbent upon us that they be defeated, in no uncertain terms. If we are not tough now, I believe down the road, that totalitarianism could occur here, in our own society. I only pray to God, as i'm sure you do, that it is already not too late, for we have a fifth column by the thousands in our midst. A majority of canadian mosques have been taken over by the radical fundamentalists, and that is a well testified fact. In short, we are in a serious mess. A heroic and relentless effort, as the U.S. administration has said, involving intelligence, police, and military -has to be undertaken. Lives will be lost on both sides. But factories manufact- uring chemical, biological, even nuclear weapons are taking place in Iraq right at this moment. And just like UA flight 93, the only way we can stop them is to fight - still hoping that the Redeemer of all mankind will be our deliveror. Many have given their lives before. Their lives still speak out to those of us today who can, thanks to them, speak and email in freedom. They fell at el alamein, they bled and died at omaha beach, in holland, and crossing the rhine. They were the last to love war, but the first to make the ultimate sacrifice. shane ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #483 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?