From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #478 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, October 12 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 478 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: top ten movies on an island...NJC [colin ] Re: top ten movies on an island...NJC ["Dolphie Bush" ] Q Review of 'Shadows & Light' ["Paul Castle" ] Re: dates and measurements (njc) ["Norma Meatheringham" ] Re: top ten movies on an island...NJC [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: peace and calm (NJC) ["Kate Bennett" ] In Search of... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Musician's who make a difference (sjc) [Phyliss Ward ] Re: dates and measurements (njc) ["Sybil Skelton" ] Subject: RE: dates and measurements (njc) ["Kate Bennett" ] Desert Island Movies & Books - NJC ["Brenda J. Walker" ] RE: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] something southern or texan njc ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: dates and measurements (njc) [colin ] Subject: heroism on UA flight 93 (njc) ["Kate Bennett" ] Larry King; paul mccartney; joni ideas ["shane mattison" ] Alberta College of Art ["shane mattison" ] Re: top ten movies on an island...NJC [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: desert island movies (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Subject: heroism on UA flight 93 (njc) [colin ] NJC Re: Movies/Books/CDs/TV Shows [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] re: Desert Island Books NJC [pyramus@lineone.net] Re: an odd trio (njc) [Les Irvin ] Re: desert island movies (NJC) ["Bree Mcdonough" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 17:13:30 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: top ten movies on an island...NJC contact 6th sense sound of music bringing up baby the one with bette midler and shelly long tho the titel escapes me the land before time fantasia twister arthur hot and hard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:03:53 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: top ten movies on an island...NJC outrageous fortune, colin mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: "colin" To: Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 11:13 AM Subject: Re: top ten movies on an island...NJC > contact > 6th sense > sound of music > bringing up baby > the one with bette midler and shelly long tho the titel escapes me > the land before time > fantasia > twister > arthur > hot and hard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 17:23:42 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc Ron Greer wrote: > hi catherine > > thanks for your response, and the manner in which you put it. > > >>you wrote > > >>reason to be pro-gay or anti-gay or anything-gay. I > >>am straight, but I have lots of friends and co-workers > >>who are gay, male or female, and they're no more or > >>less screwed up than anyone else I know ;) Saying that > >>homosexuality is wrong is like saying being human is > >>wrong. It's just part of who a person is. As far as > > >>I know that if someone believes something is wrong, > >>deep within themself, that nothing I or anyone here > >>can say is going to change that, but it would be nice > >>if people who feel so strongly this way could at least > >>ask themselves why they feel this way. I guess I've > > i do not feel "so strongly" about it!!! > > personally it makes no difference - i thought that i made that fairly clear??? > Ron the reson I and others wewre offended hurt is ebcause you obviously thought it important enough to let us know how wrong you think we are. later I find out that you don't even know your bible well but well enoguh to decide based on it, that we as people are wrong. I was more offended at your not caring about our feelings than your homophobia. Why would you state your posotion at all? Surely you expected a response? You not only state that homomsexuality is wrong but also that you have gay friends. that is even more insulting. I would not be firends with a person who held this attitude. Why? Because I would know thye considered me less than and that is insulting. i know you don't undertsand and I don't think you are bad person. I do think you need to think about this more. beign gay is NOT about behaviouir it is about being. You state that being is wrong. We all must take responsibilty for our beliefs and the words we speak and the reactions they cause. Yoiur belief comntributes to the deaths of gay people, to misery and pain inflicted upon gay people. The fact you hold this belief and also have gay friends. I don't think I need to spell it out do I? We are all entitled to make mistakes and believe things that are wrong. That is waht life is about,. growth. We are also entitled to point out strongly dangerous and wrong beliefs. I know people such as yourself, who are 'nicely' homophobic would neevr beat a gay person to death or imprsion one for being gay, but you do support it by default. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 17:14:28 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Q Review of 'Shadows & Light' Here's the review from November's Q Magazine ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FAR-REACHING How a gentle folkie changed modern music Joni Mitchell Shadows and Light The Definitive Biography Karen O'Brien Virgin IN HER INTRODUCTION alone, Karen O'Brien manages an admirable feat, dropping references to Friedrich Nietzsche, Bob Dylan, Hillary and Bill Clinton and Meg Mathews within mear pages of each other. The common thread, it transpires, is the shear reach of the artist in question: rooted in the high- falutin' world of coffee house bohemia, for sure, but such a modern commonplace that she could give a future president the name for his daughter (taken from Mitchell's Chelsea Morning), and create the hippy-chick look occasionally "rocked" by the erstwhile Mrs Gallagher. In fairness, ephemeral points like these are a rarity. This is a book that seeks to decisively shine a light on Mitchell's artistic importance and, thanks to Karen O'Brien's capable writing and seemingly endless research, it impressively succeeds. In particular, the chapters about her decisive arrival - between 1969 and 1970 - are a joy, confidently placing her within the context of the '60s counterculture and its relationship with mainstream America. On occasion, in fact, the text masters its themes to the point that it teeters on the brink of social history. In keeping with all that, the book frequently alights on an all too familiar subject: Mitchell's recurrent clashes with cloth-headed sexism, particularly pronounced during the first phase of her progress. "Joni Mitchell is 90% virgin", read the tag-line on an early record company ad, before the copywriter sketched out her first album in terms of a long delayed female orgasm, finally brought on by some big-hearted male hippy. Groovy times, eh? **** John Harris - Q Magazine (Nov 01) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Very best PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:06:05 -0600 From: "Norma Meatheringham" Subject: Re: dates and measurements (njc) There will be a new soft drink on the market soon that will contain Viagra. They're gonna call it "Mount 'N Do." A bear walks into a bar and says, "I'll have a gin----------------and tonic." The bartender says, "What's with the big pause?" The bear says "I don't know, my father had them, too." *** norma - I say, please pass the root beer. Wally wrote: well, this is getting more and more interesting [at least for me]. so who says pop, who says soft drink, who says soda among you? i swear i am serious. wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:30:39 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Musician's who make a difference (sjc) Also, the bridge benefits tend to be acoustic, and we all know Joni's given up on playing or writing on an acoustic. Mark NP-Grateful Dead, 8/6/71-Loser At 11:39 AM -0400 10/12/01, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: ><woodstock, would be a little more politically minded. >> > >I dunno, Julie...Joni has ALWAYS said that she's not very political, >and I don't think that Woodstock is necessarily a POLITICAL song as >much as it is a celebration of an event where so many people >gathered during a turbulent time and existed in a peaceful >atmosphere, and the hope that that feeling could translate onto a >global setting. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 18:56:55 +0100 From: "Marian" Subject: desert island movies (NJC) Contact A Walk In The Clouds Anne Of Green Gables Close Encounters The Object Of My Affection Marian marian@jmdl.com http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/guitar.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 13:52:32 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: top ten movies on an island...NJC CDs, movies and books? Shipwreck me now, please. Well, we should talk food and drink first, I 'spose. - -Julius 1)Casablanca 2)Baghdad Cafe 3)Jackie Brown 4)Harold & Maude 5)Gone With the Wind 6)The Crying Game 7)Guess Who's Coming to Dinner 8)Sugar Cane Alley 9)Six Degrees of Separation 10)To Sir, With Love - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:44:03 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: peace and calm (NJC) wisely said colin & so very true...it is perhaps the hardest work one can do (outside of childbirth that is!)but both do involve a letting go... >>we cannot change others, only ourselves. whatever we want to see in the world we must first build in ourselves. we spend too much time thinking that others need to change and do things to that end when we should be pointing the finger at ourselves and doing the changing there. A lot easier said than done of course.<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 14:08:18 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: In Search of... Wonder if any of you traders out there have any live Erykah Badu available? Is so, let me know...I may need it for a Joni trade. Thanks in advance if you can help, Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:14:50 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Musician's who make a difference (sjc) You've already had some good responses to this but I would like to add that just because Joni hasn't performed at these events *lately* doesn't mean she isn't political or doesn't contribute. It could be she just chooses to do so in other ways. If memory serves me she did attend a fund-raising event for the democratic party in Los Angeles during the last campaign. She may be writing checks behind the scenes as well. We also shouldn't forget that she suffers from post-polio syndrone and traveling/performing is taxing on her physically. YORK48CAD@aol.com wrote: > I am disappointed that Joni is never involved in > these fund raising events. You would think that the person who wrote > woodstock, would be a little more politically minded. - -- Phyliss mailto:phyliss@goldenfigclay.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:17:53 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: desert island movies njc Raising Arizona Harold and Maude Slaughterhouse Five Koyaanisqatsi Shawshank Redemption Night Shift Trip to Bountiful etc.... Les - on his way to see Patricia Barber tonight in Denver! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 13:27:16 -0500 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Re: dates and measurements (njc) Having been born and raised in Texas (yes, in Texas we "raise" children as well as cotton), the only time I ever really "got" the metric measurements had to do with drugs. Cocaine always seemed to be sold in metric units - keys and grams. I learned real quick that there are 28 grams in an ounce and a kilo is 2.2 pounds. (What a misspent youth!) But pot always seemed to be sold in pounds and ounces - why the difference I wonder. I'm another one who grew up calling all soft drinks "Coke". Is that a Southern thing? Cold cuts were usually referred to as lunch meat, as delicatessen was a one of those mysterious Yankee terms. And I grew up in Dallas, a fairly large city! Of course, now the place is overrun with Yankees, and delis are commonplace. These charming regional differences in speech and customs seem to be disappearing with our increasingly mobile society. Kinda fun to share them and remind ourselves. Sybil _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 13:27:48 -0500 From: cvickery@danielrealty.com Subject: Re: desert island movies (NJC) just off the top of my head on a manic friday morning: Crash Wizard of Oz Sound of Music Harold & Maude Willy Wonka Blue Velvet Night of the Bloody Apes (a Mexican women's wrestling horror film which always makes me laugh out loud) Amadeus Koyaanisquatsi and the smuggle on - "those" 3 mins of Bound (yep, the 3 mins that all of you JMDL lesbians are thinking about) happy friday! cindy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:15:29 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Re: [JoniTribute2001] weekend plans Stephen from Vancouver wrote:>>Italian,family owned and run for many years, suberb food! We will have a fixedappetizer and antipasto first course, and then we can individually order a main course. No one will be disappointed, trust me on this one!<<< Oh yes trust him! Stephen took us to the most wonderful restaurant in Vancouver last winter (w/ Wally, Steve & Michelle Dulson)...Stephen knows his restaurants! Oh how I wish I could be there! Have fun you all! ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 14:55:03 EDT From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Desert Island Movies - NJC In no particular order Nightmare Before Christmas - One of my all time favorites! Great visuals and great music. One of the most under appreciated movies I know. I can't understand why this wasn't a huge hit. The World According to Garp - The only movie I can think of where I enjoyed the movie more than the book. The Fifth Element - A totally over the top Sci-fi movie. Great visuals, the most hilarious performance by Chris Tucker as a whacked out Prince type of character, and the opera piece by the blue alien is worth the price admission alone. I often play this scene (thank you DVD) all by itself. Stop Making Sense - The Talking Heads captured at their prime. One of the best (actually the best, IMO) movie on rock and roll ever. If this doesn't guess your ass waggin', nothing will. Amedeus - Great movie, great music, beautiful production values, and the death bed scene where Amedeus is dictating music to Salieri (sp?) is a classic. It captures the act of creation perfectly. Harold and Maude - For a movie that is pre-occupied with death, it is absolutely life affirming. Ruth Gordon is magical in this movie. It's hilarious, and heartbreaking at the same time. I love the scene where Harold gives Maude a gift, and she throws it in the lake - then tells Harold that this way she will always know where it is. I lost a very special ring in the surf of Hawaii, and my one consolation was that this way I will always know where it is. Plus it's got a killer sound track by Cat Stevens. Pulp Fiction - What can I say - I love this movie. I don't ever remember laughing this hard at a movie (except possibly Kentucky Fried Movie). I'm not sure why, but this movie pushes all my buttons. Moulin Rouge - Another over the top charmer. The Black Stallion - The first half of this movie is simply amazing. Some of the most stunning cinematography I've ever seen. Granted the second half reverts to stand movie fare, but that first half it pretty untouchable. The Philadelphia Story - How could I not have a Katherine Hepburn movie in the collection? Tough to narrow it down, and leave Spenser out of the picture, but Cary Grant sure helps. A true classic. Well, that's 10. I also want to comment on the notion that there are no good Stephen King movies. While this might be true about adaptations of his horror stories, it isn't true entirely. Stand By Me is a great little film, The Green Mile was good, Hearts in Atlantis looks good (though I haven't seen it) and The Shawshank Redemption almost made my top 10. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 14:57:45 EDT From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Re: Musician's who make a difference (sjc) And let's not forget that her appearances at these events are always greeted with open arms. If memory serves me correctly, she appeared at Farm Aid one year, and had beer cans thrown at her. Behavior like that sure wouldn't encourage me to attend more of these events. Just a thought. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 13:32:01 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: measurements ...and...gerswhin (njc) oooo, your measurements, england or france, your a bible lovin' baby an' i just wanna dance... or as ira gerswhin wrote, in Let's Call the Whole Thing Off Things have come to a pretty pass - Our romance is growing flat, For you like this and the other, While I go for this and that. Goodness knows what the end will be; Oh, I don't know where I'm at .... It looks as if we two will never be one. Something must be done. Refrain You say eether and I say eyether, You say neether and I say nyther; Eether, eyether, neether, nyther - Let's call the whole thing off ! You like potato and I like po-tah-to, You like tomato and I like to-mah-to; Potato, po-tah-to, tomato, to-mah-to - Let's call the whole thing off ! But oh, if we call the whole thing off, then we must part. And oh, if we ever part, then that might break my heart. So, if you like pajamas and I like pa-jah-mas, I'll wear pajamas and give up pa-jah-mas. For we know we Need each other, so we Better call the calling off off. Let's call the whole thing off ! Second Refrain You say laughter and I say lawfter, You say after and I say awfter; Laughter, lawfter, after, awfter - Let's call the whole thing off ! You like vanilla and I like vanella, You, sa's'parilla and I sa's'parella; Vanilla, vanella, choc'late, strawb'ry - Let's call the whole thing off ! But oh, if we call the whole thing off, then we must part. And oh, if we ever part, then that might break my heart. So, if you go for oysters and I go for ersters, I'll order oysters and cancel the ersters. For we know we Need each other, so we Better call the calling off off. Let's call the whole thing off ! And life is a road that I wanna keep going Love is a river, I wanna keep flowing Life is a road, now and forever, wonderful journey I'll be there when the world stops turning I'll be there when the storm is through In the end I wanna be standing At the beginning with you. or check out the melody in midi as you read or sing, baby: http://www.niehs.nih.gov/kids/lyrics/callitoff.htm shane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 13:44:55 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: taking action (njc) latest from bush: "When I take action, I'm not going to fire a $2 million missile at an empty $10 tent and hit a camel in the butt." shane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 12:51:09 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: RE: dates and measurements (njc) soda & lunch meats in santa barbara ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 13:15:56 -0700 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: desert island movies (NJC) >and the smuggle on - "those" 3 mins of Bound (yep, the 3 mins >that all of you JMDL lesbians are thinking about) > >happy friday! > >cindy Cindy, I'm intrigued, but could you expound a little? I've never heard of Bound. Maybe because I swing both ways? ;-) Bree---pondering......no clue _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 17:18:22 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: gays are ok but non troppo njc but julius, gay people's struggle is not only to be able to hold hands in public or have sex with whomever we want to just as the struggle of blacks is no longer to be able to vote. it has to do with the very same issues: with hatred and murderous ignorance. i have always felt a part of a world movement that includes every member of the oppressed classes. while black people were being branded as cattle, homosexuals were being burned alive, stoned to death, castrated, disfigured. while blacks were being sent to the back of busses, gays were being given electroshock therapy and in general subjected to very cruel attempts to be ''cured''. today our struggle looks of so much less historical and social importance than that of blacks but this is not a will & grace world. when i view the oppression that all of us live under, i don't think about the right to go to the company's party with my partner but, just to mention one, the right to live in this world being accepted and not merely tolerated. tolerance is such a hideous thing. i know that in your effort to explain your view you had to simplify them, but i still think that the roots of discrimination against homosexuals sink into the same putrid land and that the effects of that discrimination are a lot more than just my not being able to have more ikea ads portraying gay couples shopping for a mattress. wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 13:20:23 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Desert Island Movies & Books - NJC In no particular order except.... All About Eve - My #1. Babette's Feast - My favorite film about food. Cinema Paradiso - I'm with Joe on this one. Magnificently sentimental. Desk Set - Love when Hepburn gets drunk at the Christmas Party and sings "Night & Day" Manhattan Murder Mystery - Just barely edges out Annie Hall for me. There's a scene where Angelica Houston's face appears imposed on the head of a horse statue; I just lose it every time. It's so clear Woody did that on purpose. North By Northwest - The Cary Grant-Eva Marie Saint scenes on the train are a textbook on flirtation. Raising Arizona - The funniest movie I've ever seen. The Apartment - The score alone is reason enough. The Godfather Saga - Really don't need part III. Clueless - What can I say....guilty pleasure. Not many dramas here....guess it's a reflection of the times. Books Song of Solomon - Toni Morrison Confederacy of Dunces - John Kennedy Toole One Hundred Years of Solitude - Gabriel Garcia Marquez Knees of a Natural Man - Henry Dumas (Poetry) The Eye of Jazz - Herman Leonard (Photographs) Brenda n.p.: KCRW ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 09:32:45 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: desert island movies (NJC) Cindy wrote: > and the smuggle on - "those" 3 mins of Bound (yep, the 3 mins > that all of you JMDL lesbians are thinking about) Of course. You're talking about the scene where she's cleaning out the drains, aren't you? Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 17:25:35 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc >>>>>>>>. wearing clothes made from 3 different types of fabric. (funny - some of the other rules i can see as being basic hygiene rules for people living in a primitive desert environment, but this one eludes me completely!!) well, the egyptians, for example, mixed fabrics, so in order to preserve and celebrate their identity jews had to have clear rules regarding the way they dressed. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 17:30:39 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: dates and measurements (njc) sorry for the things that senility makes me do, but: 1- i love norma's jokes and 2- i can't get enough of this regional english thing. the mango and the toboggan stories are priceless. please keep on writing!!!!!!! wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:35:00 -0500 From: cvickery@danielrealty.com Subject: Re: desert island movies (NJC) I wrote: > and the smuggle on - "those" 3 mins of Bound (yep, the 3 mins > that all of you JMDL lesbians are thinking about) And Hell replied: <> I *LOVE* those New Zealand euphemisms. Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 13:26:16 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: RE: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc Ron wrote, >>>basically - the reason i see it as wrong is because of what i understand the bible to say. thats it - no other reason. and i should have made that clearer.i dont understand it - i dont understand the biblical position either, but i do understand it to be the biblical position.<<< Ron, I really appreciate your honest answer. (Just for background info my personal belief is that love comes in many forms & it is no ones business to judge anyone else for who they love.) I am no expert on the bible but do know enough about it to know that there are many versions, interpretations & that down through history, people in power (kings) have altered the bible to suit there own needs. So maybe the biblical interpretation of homosexuality being wrong is wrong. Heresy to some I know but that is the only way I can explain it. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 16:51:30 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: an odd trio (njc) Here's an odd piece of info I've come upon. Ramzi Yousef (who bombed the WTC in 1993) is jailed in Colorado in the maximum security wing of the maximum security prison. Amnesty International complained about him not being allowed to exercise, so he was eventually allowed to go out into a little yard for an hour a day, where he would have the company of two other prisoners. Now think, who might the other two have been (at first)? One was Timothy McVeigh. The other was Ted Kaczynski (the unabomber). I'll bet some guard has a picture of the three huddled in conversation. They apparently talked about their cases and the movies on Ted Turner's classic movie channel. Weird, eh? lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:54:08 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: something southern or texan njc Wally, I was out feeding the chickens a few minutes ago. Yes, believe or not, I still have chickens. Only have a few left but get a big kick out of em. I have said I live in oblivion so decided I might as well have some since we raised them during all my formative years and I always enjoyed them. Anyway, often there are too many roosters in relation to how many hens there are. What are you gonna do with them? No other option. Gotta eat em. I've heard of folks who wring their necks but we always, and still do, hung them up by their feet and cut the head off. That way they don't get dirty on the ground. We used to pluck em. Talk about a nasty job and oh, the smell. Now we just pull the skin off. Wash thoroughly, cut em up, always under running water, and the task is done. Nothing like fresh chicken. My mother even likes to eat the brain. After it is cooked, she just sucks it out. Pretty gross, I guess, to people not used to that kind of thing. She was raised in the depression. They wasted no food. I asked my dad if he had ever eaten the feet. He said they did once but it wasn't good. The dogs really enjoy the feet and I usually give em the heads too. Now that is a regional story for you. mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 22:11:06 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: peace and calm (NJC) Kate Bennett wrote: > > (outside of childbirth that is!) I have delivered many litters of puppies and kittens. i can understand a woamn having one bay. more than that and she must be nuts! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 22:24:16 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: dates and measurements (njc) In Australia I got used to the toilet being called a dunny, here in the UK it is the Loo and I have heard it called a John in the USA. Never understood that one. Not that i know how dunny or loo came to be either. arvo for afternoon in Aussie. Sarnie for sandwich. In the UK a well known savoury meat ball is called a faggot. In the UDSA a faggot is a gay man. Faggots were the bundles of wood used to burn gay people in the old days. Where John comes from they say 'well I'll go to the foot of our stairs' as an exclamation when they here something that surprises them. Pigsbum instead of bullshit, and bulldust instead of bullshit in Aussie. bugger me is a common UK exclamation. soft drinks and coke down south. Pop up north. blow, weed, hash, pot, grass for marijuana. rumpy pumpy for sex bonking for sex hiding the sausage for sex whipping the dripping and jerking the gherkhin for masturbation in Aussie. a hickey is a love bite here tits, boobs, cachongas, melons for breasts. dick, willy, plonker, diggy, for penis. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 14:07:56 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: heroism on UA flight 93 (njc) Shane, I don't know if you were referring to my post on pacifism when you wrote : >>> if they had stopped to ponder their pacifist auras<<<. To me, that shows no understanding of what pacifism is really about, nor does it serve any purpose other than taking a stab at someone. I was hoping we could all avoid in these discussions. I really like you & enjoy your posts but I think this remark was unnecessary to make your point. (I agree with you that those people were heroes on UA flight 93. I too have a friend who is a flight attendant. Her regular flight is American Airlines 11 from Boston to LAX. Fortunately for her, she flew that one on Monday, not Tuesday. Her kids are pretty freaked out though as she continues to fly. I am glad your ex is okay too.) Everyone is probably sick of me posting on this subject but what I am trying to convey is my belief that there are better ways of combating terrorism than bombing a country & killing more innocent victims which will only fuel the flames of terrorism. Yes, we need to do something about terrorism but how will bombing the Taliban stop terrorism? I really wish that I could believe that bombing Afghanistan in hopes of killing Osama & his people, would put an end to terrorism. I think I know enough about their beliefs to know that this will only create martyrdoom & strenghten those who wish harm to the USA. Now, & for generations to come. I admit that I have more questions than answers. I am open to learning & know that I have lots more learning to do. But my questions lead me to ask how can we speak about putting an end to terrorism without the USA taking some responsibility for how it has created violence in this world? Our government is the #1 exporter of arms. I do not think we can talk about this specific act of terrorism without looking at the whole issue of terrorism. Is it terrorism when it is done to us but not when we do it to someone else? Are we that self-righteous? I hope not. Just to be clear, I am NOT AT ALL suggesting that the 9/11 terrorist attacks are in anyway justifiable. I am not suggesting that these acts were not monumental & I am not suggesting that nothing is done to stop this from ever happening again. But I am saying that we need to understand the root cause in order to take effective action. After taking a news break for a couple days (highly recommended for peace of mind!), I watched a BBC documentary on Afghanistan which included the role of the USA in supporting the Taliban against Russia. Most of us know that Afghanistan was once a very different place than it is today. The list of things Vince wrote (deals with other countries) are a concern to me. Are we trading in long term security for short term results? Didn't we already learn this valuable lesson when we got involved in the war in Afghanistan? Is this only about an evil man & his fundamentalist fanatic religious followers. Or are there roots in global class differences? I believe if we as a country dare to look in this direction that we will begin to understand... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 17:30:22 EDT From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Please be thinking of Max the Wonder Dog (njc) Hi, all, I know this may seem trivial, given what the country (generally) and Anne S. (specifically) are going through, but I made it across the country from SF to RI, only to spend the last twelve hours holding our beloved Max, family dog for the last twleve years, through four major seizures. My mom and I are taking him to the vets for his final sleep in a little while, and I can't stop weeping. He's back on his feet again, and just came into the room to say hi while I'm typing. Boy do I need distractions. Gonna see old college buddy and wife and kid this evening, and still hoping to get together with Bob Murphy and Ashara this coming week. Please think of a large happy dog who looks like Benjy on steroids this afternoon. Thanks. Speaking of localisms (I did my almost-PhD. on Rhode Island dilaectology), we also have bubbler for water fountain (only here and in Wisconsin, I believe), and didn't they used to say "spa" for a local/corner store in Boston and environs? They say "tawnic" in Boston for soda, but "soda" here, 50 miles south. We also say "grinder" for submarine sandwiches, and (although it's fading), "cabinet" for a milk shake. Hope to talk to you all soon, and see Bob M. and Ashara soon, too. Hugs, Walt p.s. I screwed up the address the first time; this is actually being sent after the fact. Max was beautiful -- the color of sand on narragansett Bay -- and he went peacefully as my mom and I held him at the vet's office, about two hours ago. -- walt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 17:40:01 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Private lives NJC Kate Bennett wrote: > So maybe the biblical interpretation of homosexuality > being wrong is wrong. Heresy to some I know but that is the only way I can > explain it. Actually Kate, it is that some people *think* that the Bible has an interpretation that agrees with their biases that is the problem. The word "homosexual" dies not appear in the Bible. Not once. Not ever. If I listed all the places where the Scriptures speak of justice and peace issues, and very interestingly these days, treatment of the alien, the foreigner, this post would be very very very long indeed. There are hundreds, thousands of such references. The places where the Scriptures speak of anything that sounds like same-sexual relations are less than 10, and most of those seem to be talking ritualized prostitution and the few remaining, specifically in Paul's writings, looked at in whole contexts, are hyperbole - also denounced are gluttons, gossips, and people who disrespect their parents, for example, so we hardly have a list of some sort of evil sins but a kind of a preaching overkill to make a point. I would argue that there is much in Paul which affirms that something that is innate and natural to a person who has a good conscience, then it is good. Homosexuality as we understand it is never condemned in the Scriptures, in short. It may not be normative for society, but it is normal for people to be gay and I would suggest that gays are among the people created in God's own image. Again, this is a non issue in the Scriptures. Too often when the things that the Scriptures address: the sins of peoples, of nations, the violence and injustice and maltreatment of the alien and the oppressed, too often when these things come up, people want to change the conversation to something that God says very little about: one's private life. God is not some National Enquirer who is interested in who does what with whom, spying into people's private life (albeit that we are called to live personal lives of justice and integrity); God is concerned with things like war and peace, justice and oppression, and these are things that God addresses to nations, to peoples, to societies. Those who doubt that, begin reading the 8th century prophets. And just to show that God has a greater sense of humor about things than we do, King James VI and I, VI of Scotland and I of England, the only son of Mary Stuart, of the King James Bible translation - a flaming fag. And on that note, Kate, I have gotten great news: tonight I get both grandsons!!!!! Gage of course, and Brady is coming too tonight for his first sleep over with Gage and me! I have to go some some diapers and all, but this will be fun! I have a sneaking suspicion that in 30 minutes I will be crawling through the tubes at the McDonalds - tonight we are going to be silly and have fun! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 16:28:54 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: Larry King; paul mccartney; joni ideas show ideas? how about siquomb! let's all pitch in here! shane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 23:42:56 +0100 From: "Garret" Subject: shadows and light I just got my copy of this book, i really can't wait to start reading it!! It's on sale just about everywhere here in Dublin. i really enjoyed the Joni Mitchell Companion by Tracy Luftig; that gave me at least a tale a day. How my friends enjoyed that:-) However, i'm currently about half way through A Passage to India by Forster, and a whole lot of Aristotle reading that i've taken on, so it may have to wait a little. I was very interested to note that Kren O Brien mentions correspondence between Joni and Georgia O Keeffe, that should make for great reading! and now to my point:-) It has been mentioned a few times on the list that there are currently no plans for sale of the book in USA or Canada. On the inside flap of my copy there is both a UK and a Canadian price quoted. That would seem to suggest that there are in fact plans to give it a Canadian release. Here's hoping. GARRET ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 16:33:31 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: Alberta College of Art all jonifiles can check out the Alberta College of Art where joni attended, but has now improved since her time, safe to say: http://www.acad.ab.ca/ shane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 18:25:22 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: top ten movies on an island...NJC I forgot to mention one of my all-time favorite movies on my list, so I'm going to have to bump "To Sir, With Love" regretfully to make room for... 1) The Mission 1)Casablanca 2)Baghdad Cafe 3)Jackie Brown 4)Harold & Maude 5)Gone With the Wind 6)The Crying Game 7)Guess Who's Coming to Dinner 8)Sugar Cane Alley 9)Six Degrees of Separation 10)To Sir, With Love - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 18:36:31 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: desert island movies (NJC) << and the smuggle on - "those" 3 mins of Bound (yep, the 3 mins that all of you JMDL lesbians are thinking about) >> Cindy, don't sell us hetero boys short...Gina Gershon & Jennifer Tilly are MAJOR heat, and "that scene" in Bound is one of the steamiest I've ever seen! Bob NP: Ian Shaw, "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 23:50:24 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Subject: heroism on UA flight 93 (njc) I agree with you kate. I do not have problem with killing an idividual to save many. e.g Hitler. I do have a problem with killing Afghans. As we all know, ordinary people are being killed right now. This is not justice but revenge. A man to today was saying this was an unfortunate side effect of what muuts be done. i wondered oif he would say that if it was his family or freind that was killed as an unfortunate side effect. i also agree with Vince that this action is ot in keeping with faith ghbowever one tries to justify it. This will breed more of the same. we are headed down a dark road of our own making. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 18:47:57 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Movies/Books/CDs/TV Shows << But has anyone ever seen Cinema Paradiso? 1989 or so from Italy. Best foreign film that year. Pure joy from beginning to end. >> I'm with you on that one, Joe...not my number 1 (that would be Midnight Cowboy), but a sensational film. Another wonderful foreign entry is a 2-film combo, "My Father's Glory" & "My Mother's Castle". Anyone else seen these? Bob NP: Gloria Loring, "Song To A Seagull" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 23:59:11 +0100 From: pyramus@lineone.net Subject: re: Desert Island Books NJC The Complete Essays - Michel de Montaigne - the Humanists bible. Soul Mountain - Gao Xingjian - A strangely involving book and an epic voyage of discovery. Chroma - Derek Jarman - the best book on colour since Goethe. Strange Pilgrims - Gabriel Garcia Marquez - short stories of displaced South Americans - I take it with me on every trip. The Alchemist - Paolo Coelho - Life is following your dreams. Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 17:12:18 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: an odd trio (njc) At 10/12/2001 02:51 PM, Anne Sandstrom wrote: >Ramzi Yousef (who bombed the WTC in 1993) is jailed in Colorado in the >maximum security wing of the maximum security prison. >he was eventually allowed to go out into a little yard for an hour a day, >where he would have the company of two other prisoners >One was Timothy McVeigh. The other was Ted Kaczynski (the unabomber). Not to disagree with the fabulous Anne, but this story may not be exactly true. As a Colorado resident who has friends in the prison system (employees, not prisoners :-) I know that Ted K is in the federal prison in Florence and Timothy Mc is... er... was 140 miles away in another facility in Greeley. In addition, reports are that Ted K is a model prisoner and very polite when spoken to by the guards but refuses to interact with any other prisoner and spends every day - all day long - reading books in the library. Les NP: Whiskeytown "Factory Girl" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 16:22:17 -0700 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: desert island movies (NJC) >Cindy wrote: > > > and the smuggle on - "those" 3 mins of Bound (yep, the 3 mins > > that all of you JMDL lesbians are thinking about) > >Of course. You're talking about the scene where she's cleaning out the >drains, aren't you? > >Hell K, Cindy, now I know I must rent it. Tonight! I'll let you know my thoughts. Off to the Figi islands next week via Air Pacific... maybe some inspiration?... Bree ____________________________ >"To have great poets, there must be >great audiences too." - Walt Whitman > >hell@ihug.co.nz >Hell's Personal Photo Page: >http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm > >Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: >http://www.nbls.co.nz _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 16:59:06 -0700 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: Re: gays are ok but non troppo njc > but julius, gay people's struggle is not only to be able to hold hands in > public or have sex with whomever we want to... I know, Wally. That was just an example and probably a poor one at that. Sorry. >...just as the struggle of blacks is no longer to be able to vote. No, Blacks in the U.S. are still struggling for voting rights. The failure to count crucial Black votes in Florida during the last presidential election is merely the latest travesty. Thankfully, I don't think this is an issue confronting gay Americans, unless of course one happens to be a Black gay American. > it has to do with the very same issues: > with hatred and murderous ignorance. i have always felt a part of a world > movement that includes every member of the oppressed classes. Well, part of my point is that oppression of Blacks in America is much more multi-faceted than those atrocities alone. But certainly that's part of the struggle and I agree, one can't be truly free until everyone is free, to paraphrase MLK, Jr. > while black people were being branded as cattle, homosexuals were being burned alive, > stoned to death, castrated, disfigured. while blacks were being sent to the > back of busses, gays were being given electroshock therapy and in general > subjected to very cruel attempts to be ''cured''. I'm sure what you're saying regarding the treatment of homosexuals is factually accurate somewhere in the world during the period you're describing, but do you think it is useful to compare such occurences, as atrocious as they are, to the institution of slavery in the U.S.? After all, homosexuals were not brought here against their will by the millions and treated as non-human property. Again, this isn't intended to belittle the gay struggle, it just differentiates it from that of African-Americans. And another thing, since gay and Black are not mutually exclusive, it is illuminating to note that the oppression visited on Blacks for being Black pre-dating the Civil Rights Movement (the "back of the bus" era) were so all encompassing it was unfathomable, almost comic, to even think in terms of access to mental health care of any type for Blacks in order to treat any mental illnesses, real or imagined. Do you see what I'm getting at? > today our struggle looks > of so much less historical and social importance than that of blacks but > this is not a will & grace world. when i view the oppression that all of us > live under, i don't think about the right to go to the company's party with > my partner but, just to mention one, the right to live in this world being > accepted and not merely tolerated. tolerance is such a hideous thing. I see your point and agree with you, Wally. I'm loath to get into a who is more oppressed type discussion, but the word "intolerance" is a euphemism when applied to the conditions Black people have endured in America even up to present. I'm making a mental note to discuss this issue with one of my gay Black friends. I'm wondering whether they would identify first and foremost with their Blackness or their homosexuality and to what extent they see the two overlapping. Come to think of it, I'm sure James Baldwin had much to say on this subject. I think I'll look to his great writings for illumination. > i know that in your effort to explain your view you had to simplify them, > but i still think that the roots of discrimination against homosexuals sink > into the same putrid land and that the effects of that discrimination are a > lot more than just my not being able to have more ikea ads portraying gay > couples shopping for a mattress. Clearly, it's a lot more than that. But I think I'd be buoyed to see images of gays going about their normal everyday lives in peace reflected in Ikea ads, since advertising media often reflect societal acceptance trends...tolerance, if you will. It's about time that was considered non troppo, no? - -Julius ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #478 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?