From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #477 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, October 12 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 477 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: dates and measurements (njc) [jan ] RE: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc ["Ron Greer" ] Today's Articles: October 12 [les@jmdl.com] Rufus Wainwright's cover of "He Ain't Heavy" [NJC] [Richard Goldman ] Re: dates and measurements (njc) [colin ] Re: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc [colin ] RE: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc ["Ron Greer" ] Re: desert island books (njc) ["Marian" ] RE: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc ["J. R. Mills" ] Re: dates and measurements (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc [colin ] metric NJC [Yael Harlap ] NJC - cold.... & "the stand" ["Ron Greer" ] Re: desert island movies njc [Jerry Notaro ] Re: dates and measurements (njc) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc [cvickery@danielrealty.com] Re: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc ["J. R. Mills" ] dates and measurements (njc) [Steve Polifka ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 00:43:06 -0700 From: jan Subject: Re: dates and measurements (njc) So who would win in a fight betwixt 'Gram' Parsons, Sharon 'Stone' and Ezra 'Pound'? - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:25:18 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: RE: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc hi lori >>i wrote > my personal viewpoint is that homosexuality is wrong. > *BUT* it is no more wrong than fornication with same > sexes etc. >>lori replied >>Ron, I think I'm missing something here. What is the difference??? >>I don't want to start an argument; I sincerely want to know what you >>meant. lori - youre not missing anything - i did!! sorry - the difference is a typo :) what i meant to say is fornication with the other sex - i.e. - in biblical terms there is *no* differentiation between fornication with same sex, or other sex. sorry - that was a bad mistake. ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 03:27:15 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: October 12 On October 12 these articles were published: 1998: "Burning Bright" - Time (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/981012t.cfm 1998: "Taming Joni Mitchell - Joni's Jazz" - Austin Chronicle (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/981012ac.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 635 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 01:02:18 -0700 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Rufus Wainwright's cover of "He Ain't Heavy" [NJC] Rufus has done it again. He's covered The Hollies: "He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother" for the soundtrack of Zoolander, of all things, and it is one of his most amazing vocal achievements to date. Incredible boy, and voice, and arrangement. Richard n.p.-- Cyndy Lauper - Strawberry Fields Forever, from the Tribute to John Lennon Concert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:27:35 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: dates and measurements (njc) Yes but bear in mind that 15.71 stones does not equate to 15st 7lbs. It would be about 15st 10lbs. Thats the trouble with Imperial measuremetns-not divisible by 10. I also just found out that the US Gallon is not the same as the UK one. Our Gallon is 8pints i.e 8x20flozs, 160 flozs. Wally Kairuz wrote: > so if someone weighs 110 kg [guess who...] his weight in stone would be > 15,71 [i just figured it out]. how do you express the decimal part? if it > were in kilos we would use grams. do you say 15 stone and the rest in > pounds, for instance? > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: colin [mailto:colin@tantra-apso.com] > Enviado el: Jueves, 11 de Octubre de 2001 09:15 p.m. > Para: Wally Kairuz > CC: joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: dates and measurements (njc) > > It isn't just a Maugham thing! there are 14lbs to the stone. And yes it is > in > everyday use. Our scales measure in stones(those for weighing people). You > can > get kg ones too and lb ones but people here when talking about their own > weight > talk in stones and lbs. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:28:19 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: dates and measurements (njc) I'll see you on the beach then Wally! Wally Kairuz wrote: > lord, i've just figured out that my ideal weight should be about 10 stone! > all this talk has made me realized that i'm a whale!!!!!! - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:50:31 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc Ctaherine-Reuben wrote this to me(i have permisson to quote it). he wrote more but this is the most salient bit: "I love the underlying idea that many seem to carry with them that being gay is similar to being a vegetarian. I did not start out straight. I did not decide to be gay one day. I will not go back to being straight when I change my mind again. " One thing that really pisses me off is that those who judge us this way only quote the bible as their reason. they don't think. I do not think it is acceptable or wise. The KKK use the bible to defend their positon. No difference. It still appalls me that people can write what they like about us, gay people, but wouldn't dare write anything negative about people of colour or women. I would think that the reason that they quote the bible as thier only defence is because if they thought about why they believe homosexuality is wrong, they wqould change their mind. Fear prevents them doing that. As for gay people not going to Heaven. Well one that isn't true. the only requiremtn is a belief that Jesus is your personnal saviour. It is not about being without sin. If it is so, then I would not want to ne there anyway. I want nothing to do with a Goid that would create me and then condemn me. I don't believe it for a second, mind you. My idea of God is quite different. Heaven and Hell are states of mind. God does not judge us or condemn us. If there is punishement, we are punished BY our sins not for them. The very idea of a God that on the one hand loves us and on the other destroys us if we do not live up to his perfection, is crap and a toatlly human invention. In fact it is human God, God made in OUR image. Only humans behave like this, only humans misuse power in such a way, only humans demand such perffection, only humans judge, only humans condemn, only humans need their egos stroked in such ways. Those who believe that the bible is exact and true beyond doubt do not have faith in anything but their own judgement. One readson why they spout so much wickedness in the name of God. It is their own arrogance speaking. They have faith in nothing but themselves. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:54:42 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: RE: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc hi catherine thanks for your response, and the manner in which you put it. >>you wrote >>reason to be pro-gay or anti-gay or anything-gay. I >>am straight, but I have lots of friends and co-workers >>who are gay, male or female, and they're no more or >>less screwed up than anyone else I know ;) Saying that >>homosexuality is wrong is like saying being human is >>wrong. It's just part of who a person is. As far as >>I know that if someone believes something is wrong, >>deep within themself, that nothing I or anyone here >>can say is going to change that, but it would be nice >>if people who feel so strongly this way could at least >>ask themselves why they feel this way. I guess I've i do not feel "so strongly" about it!!! personally it makes no difference - i thought that i made that fairly clear??? basically - the reason i see it as wrong is because of what i understand the bible to say. thats it - no other reason. and i should have made that clearer. i dont understand it - i dont understand the biblical position either, but i do understand it to be the biblical position. i dont see a gay as a person with a problem. i *have* given it some thought & i dont even begin to understand why some people may be gay, and others may not. it is, quite frankly beyond my comprehension, (i know my limits) and none of my business. it gets even more confusing when the issue of transexuals, and people with hormone problems, etc. there are more important things in life. i dont plan to sleep with a gay person, & i dont flatter myself to be an object of desire to any gay person, so friendship, which is *not* affected by sexual orientation is more important - simple really. in cape town i had a friendship with an openly gay women. i loved her company, i loved the way she was, i had feelings for her - but obviously it did not & would not go any further than friendship. (her choice - not mine) but as i understand the bible it says it is wrong. if someone can put me straight i would welcome it. really my posting was response to someone who posted & said the bible says homosexuality is wrong, and therefore rejected the bible, and took vince to task, as they felt that he embraced some parts of the bible, and ignored the part/s which said that homosexuality was wrong. my response was yes, as i understand the bible it says it is wrong (if anyone can point me in the other direction please do - though off list may be better), but it is really a minor point. there are a lot more important things to deal with. i have friends who do things i may not agree with. i may or may not say anything about it. for eaxample - im a cat lover. i know people who love dogs - i dont understand or get it or agree with it. i may pass a comment eg - "how can you like dogs - cats are such beautifulo animals" " i may disagree with their taste in animals, i may think it is wrong, but they are still my friend. i still like & value & care for that person. its all a question of priority. if you can grasp that the issue of whether a person is gay means no more to me than the colour of their hair - then you start to understand how i feel about it. ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:28:02 +0100 From: "Marian" Subject: Re: desert island books (njc) Animal Dreams - Barbara Kingsolver Fried Green Tomatoes At The Whistle Stop Cafe - Fannie Flagg Ingathering: The Complete People Stories of Zenna Henderson - Zenna Henderson Betty Crocker Cookbook Hubble Atlas of Galaxies A Field Guide To The Stars & Planets Marian marian@jmdl.com http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/guitar.htm marian@jmdl.com http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/guitar.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 06:31:32 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc ron, really, i'm not trying to be smart or anything but the bible also says that it is wrong to wear clothes that are made from three different fabrics, that it is wrong to eat shrimp, that it is wrong to have sex with a woman during her period, that it is wrong to wear red, that it is wrong to touch your own semen. the bible also says that if a son should disrespect his father he must be stoned to death. the bible says so many things. would you stone your child to death if he disrespected you? would you throw out all your mixed fabric garments and do penitence? would you consider yourself impure and retreat to the desert for every time your own ejaculate has come in contact with your skin? if the answer is yes to all of these questions, then i have nothing more to say. but if you consider these laws ludicrous in this time and age, then why should the bible laws regarding homosexuality be considered current and good? isn't it just prejudice that makes us disregard some parts of the bible and uphold others? the bible was written in a time in which the jewish people needed to guarantee a steady growth in population, thus the condemnation of homosexuality, and only male homosexuality at that. all of the bible passages that are usually quoted to discuss homosexuality are so very dependent on their historical context! surprisingly, i conducted a workshop on the subject of bible and sexuality about 3 weeks ago. for every reason the participants gave to support the idea that the bible condemns homosexuality there was a historical or anthropological reason not to believe so. i am aware that there are passages that seem explicitly to say that homosexuality is wrong but further analysis, bearing in mind the need of the jews in biblical times to distinguish themselves from the ''pagan'' nations around them as well as the urge to grow in number, seems to indicate that the bible is referring to other aspects of jewish life rather than sexuality. the passages in the new testament [mainly paul's opinions] are also quite relative. interestingly, jesus never once spoke about the subject. in fact, he seemed to spend a lot more time with ''sinners'' than he did with scripture specialists. in any case, i'll still get you your silvio rodriguez cd's. :-) wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 06:36:24 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: dates and measurements (njc) well, how did i miss that? i spent two weeks in boston practicing 'gaaaahden'', ''paaaahk'' and ''caaaaaah''. you mean you could have been my coach and you never told me? how you betray me again and again, bob... wallyK, sad, very sad. - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Murphycopy@aol.com Enviado el: Viernes, 12 de Octubre de 2001 01:13 a.m. Para: wallykai@fibertel.com.ar; revrvl@chartermi.net; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: dates and measurements (njc) In a message dated 10/11/01 11:03:57 PM, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: (and we speak with our childhood accents -- really hahhhhhhhd on the eeyas, or "hard on the ears"). --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 05:48:12 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Desert Island Movies NJC Nice idea, Hell! Like you, in no particular order and subject to change. I also noticed the lack of "deep" stuff. When I send my kids up to the video store for a film, I'm always telling them: "get me something romantic or something funny." I find that I no longer have the stomach for anything with too much sadness. 1. What About Bob? (like you, one of my faves) 2. The Princess Bride, (assssssssssss yooooooooooouuuuuuuuu wishhhhhhhh) 3. Entre Nous, (wonderful French film) 4. Madame X, (Lana Turner in a grade B, (for boo hoo), flick, but I love it) 5. Spaceballs, (I drive my kids crazy with this one: May the Schwartz be with you) 6. Annie Hall, (just the best) 7. The Godfather, (boxset if it's allowed) 8. Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, (Harrison **sigh** Ford AND Sean **double sigh** Connery) 9. The Last Waltz (squeezes in some Joni content but I wish I could reach out and comb Neil Young's hair) 10. Camille Claudel, (oh! that Rodin makes me so mad whenever I watch this!) MG - too late getting to bed? too early getting up? Only my migraine knows for sure. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 12:30:48 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: RE: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc hi wally >>you wrote >>really, i'm not trying to be smart or anything but the bible also says that >>it is wrong to wear clothes that are made from three different fabrics, that >>it is wrong to eat shrimp, that it is wrong to have sex with a woman during my point exactly!!!!! its wrong in a strictly scriptural sense - but its NOT IMPORTANT!! its one of the little things that we really dont have to sweat about. there are more important things to work on. >>interestingly, jesus never once spoke about the subject. in fact, he seemed >>to spend a lot more time with ''sinners'' than he did with scripture >>specialists. i actually didnt know that. believe it or not, it makes me feel a lot better. it ties in with what i was trying to say - it may be wrong from a biblical perspective, but it is no more wrong than a million other things which people see as being so minor that they never fuss about. i obviously need very desperately to work on my communication skills - i have failed miserably at getting my point across, and i very sincerely apologise to anyone who may have been offended or hurt by any misunderstanding. if you are conducting workshops etc - you obviously know far more about it than i do. i am very willing to listen to your point of view, if you would be willing to take the time & effort to present it. i have a point of view - it does not mean that i am not open to being educated otherwise. >>in any case, i'll still get you your silvio rodriguez cd's. :-) i very much appreciate that wally. not just from the point of view that i would like to get the cds (which i very, very much would!!), but especially that you are willing to be open & helpful - even though you see me as disagreeing. i was & still am very touched that you made the offer based only on my passing mention that i really loved his music, & was battling to find it. on that subject - were there any shows on the list that i sent, which you would like a copy of?? & if anyone thinks that my posting is kind of gushing & insincere. yes - it is kind of gushing, but definitely not insincere. i genuinely feel bad that i have obviously hurt some people. if we were discussing it in person - i think no-one would have any trouble seeing that. trying to express it in writing isnt so easy.... regards ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 03:28:57 -0700 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: Re: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc colin writes: > It still appalls me that people can write what they like > about us, gay people, but wouldn't dare write anything negative about > people of colour or women. Time and time again I've read you compare being gay to being "people of color," colin. It's beginning to irk me, as I find this position a horrendous oversimplification. Before I go into a long, academic dissertation of why I don't think this an apt comparison, perhaps you can explain to me how you can equate being gay to being of African descent or being a woman, for example. I really believe you need to give this idea a lot more thought. I think you do a disservice to both gays and people of colour by lumping together as you do. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 06:52:07 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Desert Island movies - NJC In a message dated 10/12/01 1:35:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << 4. All About Eve - Bette at her best 7. The Big Chill - great cast, and a good story >> I'd pick these movies, plus "Blow Up" "Last Year at Marienbad" "Vertigo" "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory" "Shoot the Moon" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 07:46:58 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc oh no! your original post was not hurtful nor was your response insincere. and when i mentioned the workshop, i was just thinking of the synchronicity. i never meant to present myself as an authority on the scriptures! and i think that now i get your point: the bible says that homosexuality is wrong but that fact doesn't make homosexuality wrong per se. [did i get your point?] what i say is that even such apparently explicit condemnation is subject to interpretation. i know i should quote specifically [there are 9 passages that are particularly relevant to the issue] and put my money where my mouth is, but, oh ron, i am so lazy!!!!!!!! maybe when i go to south africa to sample its great wines. ;-) wallyk, 7:45 am and still haven't gone to bed! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 13:10:25 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: RE: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc hi wally >>oh no! your original post was not hurtful unfortunately it did hurt some people :( and was not very clear.... >>and i think that now i get your point: the bible says that homosexuality is >>wrong but that fact doesn't make homosexuality wrong per se. [did i get your >>point?] nearly - my opinion is that it is about as important as wearing clothes made from 3 different types of fabric. (funny - some of the other rules i can see as being basic hygiene rules for people living in a primitive desert environment, but this one eludes me completely!!) >>i know i should quote specifically [there are 9 passages that are >>particularly relevant to the issue] and put my money where my mouth is, but, >>oh ron, i am so lazy!!!!!!!! maybe someday - probably better off list :-) >>maybe when i go to south africa to sample its >>great wines. ;-) well - i dont live in the wine producing region any more, and im not much of a winedrinker - but any time you, or any other list member may be passing through the gauteng area of south africa - there is a spare bedroom at my place, and you, or they would be welcome. now you go to bed - & ill get back to work ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 08:18:08 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: dates and measurements (njc) > well, this is getting more and more interesting [at least for me]. > so who says pop, who says soft drink, who says soda among you? i swear i am > serious. > wallyK I just say coke usually. Not because I lived near the coke headquarters for so long but I've never like Pepsi and is usually seems simple to just ask for a coke. Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 13:47:03 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc If you ahev a loan with interest, a credit card, a mortgae etc you are also committing a sin. the bible says so. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 13:59:43 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc I don't undertsand your objection, although I have come across it before. Being gay, like being a woman, like being a person of colour(from a white western point of view), is not a choice. All of us are discriminated against and considered less than. I don't think i do a diservice to you, to me or anyone esle by seeing that as fact. Why is it alright to hold prejudiced views to ward gay people but to noward people of colour and women? the only difference i see is that women and people of colour also have prejudices toward gay people. Gay people too have prejudices toward women and people of colour. The one group that is universally dsicrimanted against in the world by all different peoples are gay people. Perhaps you could yourself give more thought to why you don't see the connection. Assuming I undertsood you request that I think about it. Because I have a different opinion to you does not mean I haven't thought about it. The one very obvious difference is that gay people can hide their gayness whereas a woman or person of colour cannot. Yet a person of colour does not have to 'come out' to their parents either and risk being disowned. they have the role models. they are accpeted at least by their own families. ditto for women, although of course there are those that feel that way about their own female children and we have sociteies that will kill or let die female babies. So I take it, hopefully wrongly, that you consider it okay to express anti gay feeling but not anti women or anti people of colour feeling? This does not sound like the Julius i have read over the years. I have read and reread your post and the bit you quoted and as yet cannot see an alternative way to interpret your post and what it is that irks you. "J. R. Mills" wrote: > colin writes: > > > It still appalls me that people can write what they like > > about us, gay people, but wouldn't dare write anything negative about > > people of colour or women. > > Time and time again I've read you compare being gay to being "people of > color," colin. It's beginning to irk me, as I find this position a > horrendous oversimplification. Before I go into a long, academic > dissertation of why I don't think this an apt comparison, perhaps you can > explain to me how you can equate being gay to being of African descent or > being a woman, for example. I really believe you need to give this idea a > lot more thought. I think you do a disservice to both gays and people of > colour by lumping together as you do. > > -Julius - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:07:34 -0400 From: Yael Harlap Subject: metric NJC Catherine said: >then around 1967 or so, >maybe the early 70s this country "officially" went >metric, so we learned that. This means that most >people in my age-range (people in their late 30s to >early 50s, I guess) who were educated in Canada, >probably understand the metric and British systems >fairly well. When I was in elementary school in Canada (probably around... 1979), I distinctly remember having "Metric Day" at school, where we played different games and did sports such as the long jump, measuring everything in metric! I guess that is the sort of effort that was needed to convert people over. :-) - -Yael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:37:50 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: NJC - cold.... & "the stand" we have cold meats - for sliced deli meats - ham, etc. cold drinks (zulu spelling - cod'nek!!) - for fizzy drinks such as coke (or just "coke" meaning any brand of fizzy cold drink) & take aways im glad to see others also really enjoyed "the stand" - ive only ever read the uncut re-released version. what a great book! has anyone seen the movie/video of the series? i got so excited when i found it at a video store - 2 tapes of 4 hrs each - but what a disappointment.... just like every other stephen king movie ive seen - once you pull out all the detail he puts in his books, you're left which a movie which may be really good (like "the shining" with jack nicholson, or the "it" miniseries), but which doesnt quite reach the standards of the book. a picture may paint a thousand words, but whose got time to read & savour all those words being painted on a movie screen?? another great example of this was watership down. what a fantastic, classic book. what a disappointing movie for anyone whose read the book... oh well - at least the song was good. also on the subject of books - has anyone else read any of tim powers' books, such as "the anubis gate", "the stress of her regard", or "the drawing of the dark" (i forget the other titles). they are fantasy at its best - wonderful, captivating writing, great and weird and original characters, and plots totally unlike anything ive ever come across. or even dreamed of. he writes in such a way that you really get drawn in. or a book called "the gnole" by alan aldridge, steve boyett & maxine miller - ive read it at least 10 times so far, & will probably continue reading it for a long, long time. classic fantasy fare, set in modern day americka, (the books spelling) about a hobbit like character tasked with finding the dark crystal & saving the world. ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:59:13 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: desert island movies njc A Child Is Waiting The Miracle Worker L'Enfant Savage Cabaret Thieves Lilies The Pawnbroker The Wizard of Oz Harold and Maude Blue Velvet Jerry (very excited to be seeing Ani DeFranco this Sunday) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:17:30 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: dates and measurements (njc) Pop in Buffalo, N.Y. It's a Great Lakes thing, like a nasal a. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:26:46 EDT From: YORK48CAD@aol.com Subject: Musician's who make a difference (sjc) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:38:44 EDT From: CherokeeLouise@aol.com Subject: Extra Tickets to Toronto Tribute(JC) Hi all I have two extra tickets to the Toronto Tribute next week(presentation only) Row V. If anyone is interested in these tickets please email me off list;I am willing to do a sliding scale payment(whatever you can afford) Sorry for posting this so late,but I have been without a computer for almost 2 months and have been extremely busy with work! I will Fed-Ex the tickets,so you should be able to get them in time. Take Care...Lisa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:41:37 EDT From: Kammass@aol.com Subject: Re: dates and measurements (njc) In the South everything's a Coke. If I want Mt. Dew, Grapico, 7-up, or any other type drink. I'll tell my husband bring home some flavors! lol kammy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:49:03 EDT From: YORK48CAD@aol.com Subject: Musician's who make a difference (sjc) One week from today, I leave for SantaCruz to stay with our friend's and go to Neil Young's annual Bridge School Benefit. For those of you who aren't familiar, Neil does a benefit for a school that he and his wife founded 15 years ago, for children with special needs. The concert has always been great with many different performers each year. This year's line up includes: Neil w/ crazy horse, REM, Pearl Jam, Dave Matthews and Tracy Chapman. My friend Joe got in line for tickets, they had a lottery, he picked #1, we have 5th row, front and center!!!!!! I am sooo happy! This brings me to my Joni point. I am disappointed that Joni is never involved in these fund raising events. You would think that the person who wrote woodstock, would be a little more politically minded. And although she is a Canadian, she lives in LA. When I watched the Joni tribute, I was very moved by all the performances. But when the would zoom to Joni, sitting in her box smoking, like she was the queen of Sheeba, I was a little disappointed. I have always thought of Joni as the "earth mother." Now, she kind of reminds me of a spoiled debutante, who gets to smoke even if it is not polite. Peace, Julie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:47:19 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc > really my posting was response to someone who posted & said the bible says homosexuality is wrong, and therefore rejected the bible, and took vince to task, as they felt that he embraced some parts of the bible, and ignored the part/s which said that homosexuality was wrong. > That "someone" was me. I did post that the Bible says that homosexuality is wrong. I never once said or intimated that I have rejected the Bible. As far as people who want to quote certain scriptures to back up their "personal" feelings and call it reason or whatever are another story. There is hate for homosexuals everywhere and those who say "I didn't really mean it" or "that's not what I meant" don't fool me for a second. I long ago quit worrying about what homophobes think about me or homosexuals. I didn't make the choice to be homosexual, something that some people can never understand or never try to understand, and since they hate me for it, that essentially means they hate my essence. They hate my being, the core of who I am. I have also given up sitting idly by while those who feel these things espouse their hate, based on the bible, their own ignorance, etc. As for the issue of race and being gay, it amazes me that some people of color think it is okay to be anti-gay but then rail against the world for being anti-color. I come from the southern part of the u.s. and that is exactly the same kind of rhetoric that has been used for, forever, to discriminate against people of a different color. Just goes to show you that ignorance and hate and racism are not exclusive to caucasians. mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 07:55:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: dates and measurements (njc) I grew up in North Canton, Ohio, the home of Hoover appliances. (I graduated from Hoover High School, which was NOT named for the 31st U.S. president.) There, people say: "pop" "lunch meat" unless it's ham in which case it's "chip-chop ham" "boloney," never "bologna" "hamburgs" as opposed to hamburgers "stocking caps" for those knit hats worn in winter "sweeper" for a full-sized vacuum cleaner Many people say "read up the house" or "read out the drawer." "Read" is pronounced "red," and it means to straighten up the house or contents of the drawer. For whatever strange reason, my family (including aunts, uncles, and cousins) calls a green bell pepper -- are you ready for this? -- a MANGO!!! I honestly did not know what a real mango is until I was about 20 years old. My mother makes a dish she calls "stuffed mangoes." Green bell peppers stuffed with ground beef and tomato sauce. (Jody will remember our conversation at Jonifest, when we laughed about what REAL mangoes stuffed with that concoction would taste like! Mmmm mmmm MMMM!) Loving my family but realizing they're a little odd, Lori in MD ~ Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:05:11 -0500 From: cvickery@danielrealty.com Subject: Re: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc Colin wrote: <> Colin - The scriptures state that God fashioned us in the womb and knew us before we were born. I agree with you - if homosexuality were a sin, a loving Creator would not build us with that sin hard-wired in. Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 08:03:29 -0700 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: Re: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc colin asks: > So I take it, hopefully wrongly, that you consider it okay to express anti gay > feeling but not anti women or anti people of colour feeling? This does not > sound like the Julius i have read over the years. I have read and reread your > post and the bit you quoted and as yet cannot see an alternative way to > interpret your post and what it is that irks you. Please. You take it wrongly. I stated clearly that what I was irked about was your recurring oversimplifications. I'll try to explain my objections to that directly. But for the moment, what I'd like you to think about is this: does it mitigate one wrong if two more wrongs are added to it? Misery loves company, but why should we wish the expression of bigotry on other groups just because we've been wrongly subjected to it? Far from being part of the solution, it's a big part of the problem. > Perhaps you could yourself give more thought to why you don't see the > connection. Assuming I understood you request that I think about it. Because I > have a different opinion to you does not mean I haven't thought about it. My apologies for appearing to suggest that you haven't thought enough about this, colin. You're quite right. To an extent it's an opinion thang. :-) I have always liked you and respected your perspective. I've been sitting here giving the connections you cite more thought, as you suggest. I accept that being gay, like being a woman and being a person of colour, is not a matter of choice. I agree that gays, women and people of colour are often discriminated against. However, and herein is where my objection lies, the prejudices have different root causes and vastly different manifestations historically. In order to deal with irrational hostilities, I think it is important to understand their underpinnings and effects. This is a terribly complex subject, which is why I never took issue with you on it before. To be brief, at the risk of oversimplifying myself, I'll put it this way. Prejudice against gays is largely a matter of sexual repression, which can manifest itself in ways that are similar to manifestation of racial prejudice. However, the struggle for freedom of sexual expression differs greatly from many of the struggles confronted by people of colour. Institutional racism, poverty, infant mortality, health care inaccessibility, racial profiling, to name but a few. While I abhor discrimination against gays just as I do discrimination against people of colour and women, the struggle for the right to have sex with whomever one wants and to hold hands in public is wholly different from the struggle for voting rights and equal access to health care, for instance. My explanation here is inadequate, I'm sure. Let me be clear in one thing. Whatever the western point of view is and whatever the scriptures may say, I have never accepted that gays, women or people of colour are created less equal than anyone else. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:15:31 -0400 From: "joseph tischner" Subject: Movies/Books/CDs/TV Shows ...So, the boss is out of town and I, along with everyone else in the office, have the luxury of plucking around the internet for at least a little while before we actually get motivated enough to DO SOMETHING. When I have the time I always stop by the DL to see what's going on. It seems like we're still reeling from Sept 11, in various degrees. It's gotten a little bit easier for me, though I feel guilty for not ALWAYS thinking about the victims, which is what I've been doing since. I passed the Manhattan skyline twice last week, and I didn't think I would recognize a difference. BOY was I wrong! It's just unbelievable, unimaginable. I don't know. I still pray every day for everyone. And I haven't forgotten anything; I never will. But we have to go on... To the trivia of Desert Island lists... which I've been finding thoroughly engaging and enjoyable. (It even helps to bring me outta my funk.) I think the main reason why we do this is to share with everyone the feelings we have for such great(?) works of art. And maybe by sharing, we give somebody the opportunity to discover something they mightn't have found on their own. If nothing else, we can compare notes on what each of us considers meaningful in our lives. I don't know why, but I can only rank movies in order from 1 to 10. There's a line of demarcation between each film on my list. But I can't do that with books and CDs. Anyway: 1:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cinema Paradiso!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2. A Room With A View 3. Broadway Danny Rose 4. Goodfellas 5. Entre Nous 6. Sense and Sensibility 7. Fight Club 8. Annie Hall 9. Hannah and Her Sisters 10.It's a Wonderful Life Animal House, Murder On The Orient Express, The Godfather There's gotta be a hundred others... But has anyone ever seen Cinema Paradiso? 1989 or so from Italy. Best foreign film that year. Pure joy from beginning to end. I cry like a baby every time. The soundtrack is even magnificent. SEE IT, you won't be disappointed! Books are difficult because there are many that I've forgotten. But the ones that stand out STRONGLY, some of which I've reread more than once: Emile Zola's Germinal and Nana John Irving's World According to Garp Jane Austin's Sense and Sensibility Edith Wharton's House of Mirth and Custom of the Country Thomas Hardy's Mayor of Casterbridge and Far From the Madding Crowd Gabriel Garcia Marquez' Love In the Time Of Cholera Guatav Flaubert's Madame Bovary Leo Tolstoy's Anna Karennina Germinal's my favorite novel of all time. The bleakest work that I've ever read and one of the most beautifully and best written. The heartbreak and devastation of the poverty coalminers faced in 1800s France is very powerfully depicted by Zola. Gerard Dippity Do starred in the 1993 French made movie. It didn't do the book justice. CDs are tougher still. How can I have a top 10 list that isn't soley comprised of Joni? There's that guilt thing again... Steely Dan: 2 Against Nature Joni (Don't be too surprised!!): Wild Things Any version of Maurice Ravel's La Valse Luis Miguel: Romances 2 Diana Krall: All For You ... and everything else by all of the above. Last year when 2 Against Nature came out, I gave one listen and said to anyone/everyone: "this is the best CD I've ever heard in my life." Bar none. I still feel the same way! Every cut is absolutely fantastic. It's on pretty much constantly and I haven't gotten tired of it yet. There's nothing meaninful that Fagan and Becker have ever said to me, but, musically, this one has it all. And I kinda feel the same way about WTRF. Except that EVERYTHING Joni does speaks to my heart and soul-like she does for all of us. It takes me back to my newlywed days (10/10/82) and our first apartment. This is our love album. (It introduced me to the bible also. I since have read from Corinthians at several friends' weddings. Proudly and with joy because I know how beautiful these words are.) Has anyone mentioned TV yet? I'll Fly Away All In The Family thirtysomething Roseanne The Nanny St. Elsewhere Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? (I'm a gameshow hound. I'm trying all the time to get on. I'll let you know WHEN it happens!) Love ya! Joe _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:22:50 -0500 From: Steve Polifka Subject: dates and measurements (njc) What about 'bubbler'? It's a poular substitute for 'water' or 'drinking fountain' here in Wisconsin. Steve, who has bottled water in his office area... Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:26:28 EDT From: Kammass@aol.com Subject: Re: toboggan njc same happened to me mack, my relatives are from vermont and joke with us about toboggans being hats. here in alabama its a hat. just read your replay about the coke, too, weird. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:39:01 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Musician's who make a difference (sjc) <> I dunno, Julie...Joni has ALWAYS said that she's not very political, and I don't think that Woodstock is necessarily a POLITICAL song as much as it is a celebration of an event where so many people gathered during a turbulent time and existed in a peaceful atmosphere, and the hope that that feeling could translate onto a global setting. That having been said...Joni has done LOTS of benefit shows for causes she believes in; rainforests, farmers, ecology, amnesty, etc. She may not jump on the bandwagon and do them all, but I would say she does her fair share. <> Regarding the TNT show, I recall her being into the show more than you give you her credit for. Dancing in her seat during "Raised on Robbery", flirting with JT, etc. If somebody did a song and she didn't agree with the interpretation, I'd hate to see her with a passport smile. Her honesty can be disarming in terms of her being in show business. As for her smoking...I hate it, but hey, she's a feisty broad, not given to convention. That's why I like her, but it's a double-edged sword as it can be frustrating as well. Congrats on your great seats - Those Bridge shows are always great, and I'm sure this will be no exception! Bob NP: Walecki Benefit, 8/8/00, "Mercury Blues" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:47:48 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Musician's who make a difference (sjc) SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Regarding the TNT show, I recall her being into the show more than you give you her credit for. Dancing in her seat during "Raised on Robbery", flirting with JT, etc. If somebody did a song and she didn't agree with the interpretation, I'd hate to see her with a passport smile. Her honesty can be disarming in terms of her being in show business. And during the Joni's Jazz concert (Bob's favorite), which was very long, Joni gave every performer her full attention. She bopped and danced to the music just like everyone else. Jerry np: Jeff Buckley - Kashmir ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:52:19 -0500 From: Steve Polifka Subject: top ten movies on an island...NJC My top ten for now would be: 1. Too Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything, Julie Newmar. Now when I'm down I can put his on and it changes my mood. (After knowing drag queens for years, it also brings back some fond memories, hey Jimmy?) 2. Aliens. As a scifi affectionado, a must have. and I love that Sigourney woman! This is one of the best films of the genre. 3. Victor/ Victoria. Funny, GREAT songs. My usual mantra is: "I can't cook and I hate show tunes," but this movie is a classic. 4. Gladiator. (It's not the movie, it's the scenery...) 5. Castaway... LOL! (But I do love Tom Hanks...really...) 6. Love. Only because Joni is in it! 7. The Fifth Element. It is too funny, love Bruce Willis, the soundtrack rocks, and of course, it is sci-fi. 8. The Color Purple. Moves me everytime. 9. Iron Giant. I love this film!!! 10. Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. Kevin Spacey- enough said... Now, is this VCR/ TV solar powered? Or can you make batteries out of mangoes and coconuts? Steve, Can't remember ANY of the professor's scientific discoveries on Gilligans Island... Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 17:07:52 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC - Scripture Posting Etc now njc > However, and herein is where my objection lies, the prejudices have > different root causes and vastly different manifestations historically. okay(tho I don't think the root is different) but I still don't see why it irks you that I make the comparison. it is there. > > > Prejudice against gays is largely a matter of sexual > repression, which can manifest itself in ways that are similar to > manifestation of racial prejudice. However, the struggle for freedom of > sexual expression differs greatly from many of the struggles confronted by > people of colour. It isn't just about sexual expression-it is about being. > Institutional racism, insttittutional homophobia too. I know about that one. > poverty, and that one-gay people who insist on not hiding lose out financially ands acreer wise. don't get hired, or don't get promoted, or even get sacked. > infant mortality, no. although many gays are killed in homophobic attacks(juts like people of colour) and in other countries are put to death or jailed for life. > health > care inaccessibility, well, here too, it happens. been refused treatment by dentist, partners excluded from hospital, wrongly diagnosed as mentally ill due to sexuality. And many are still refused the correct treatment as regards HIV.(I am talking about UK as I don't know yours tho Imagine it to be worse bevcause medicine is not free) > racial profiling, to name but a few. don't know what that is. > > > While I abhor discrimination against gays just as I do discrimination > against people of colour and women, the struggle for the right to have sex > with whomever one wants and to hold hands in public is wholly this is oversimpllification of the struggle for equal rights for gay people. > different from > the struggle for voting rights and equal access to health care, for > instance. so parts of it are different. The basics are not. I still fail to see where your irk came from. When it comes to discrimination, I fail to see where one cause is better or more desreving than another. > > > > have never accepted that gays, women or people of colour are created less > equal than anyone else. perhaps not but maybe you see the struggles as not equal? At least that is the impression i get. I undertsand everything you have to say. Not that i didn't undertsand the position before and the differences of the opression. None of which explains to me why my pointing out the similarities in opression gets you irked. To me it all has the same root. Fear of difference. bw colin > > > -Julius - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #477 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?