From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #466 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, October 6 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 466 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: just venting njc [dsk ] 20-3!!!!(njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Checking Out of My Blue Motel Room ... ["Kakki" ] abuse etc NJC [Yael Harlap ] Re: Checking Out of My Blue Motel Room ... [Coyote4Joni@aol.com] Re: proposed Joni sighting in London [Rick and Susan ] cary grant (njc) ["shane mattison" ] Re: proposed Joni sighting in London [dsk ] Re: just venting njc ["J. R. Mills" ] A Brush with the Famous and Not a Hair Brush (njc) [Coyote4Joni@aol.com] Re: Brushes with greatness (njc) [RobSher50@aol.com] Brush with greatness (njc) [RobSher50@aol.com] Re:ooh, low blow not to osama but to women! NJC [RobSher50@aol.com] Subject: just venting njc ["Kate Bennett" ] bad cop, no donut NJC NJC NJC [Yael Harlap ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 22:26:37 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: just venting njc No, MG, that was the whole message. What the purpose of it was remains a mystery to me. I sent it to the list because people are less likely to send such stuff privately if they know it will be made public. Nothing like that should ever be sent to anyone. I've met Brian and he didn't seem like a person who would send such a message so it was a huge surprise to me and with no explanation from him, I still don't know why he sent it to me. But he did send it. And what I forwarded was the entire thing. As far as Brian being a good or bad person... "good" and "bad" are such general and judgmental terms I never use those to describe anyone. To me we all do good things and sometimes not so good things, and him sending me that message was one of those not so good things. Debra Shea MGVal@aol.com wrote: > > >From Julius in response to a post from Debra Shea > > << I don't blame you at all for being angry, Debra. I'm horrified. There can > be no satisfactory explanation for what Brian sent you, in my opinion. >> > > Not to make trivial of anything that has been posted about abuse but I would > like to point out that all we saw what appears to be a snippet of an email > and Brian's tag line. > > I've known Brian Gross for a number of years and yeah, we may all have less > than desirable private opinions of others, (goodness knows I do), but I do > know from long association with him, that he is a good person. > > Anyhow, I just wanted to say that piece of mine. > > Thanks, > > MG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 22:31:46 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: 20-3!!!!(njc) Braves just got their 20th run...just need three more outs in the 9th Atlanta Braves Eastern Division Champions 1991-2001 Victor in Athens Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 19:36:53 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Checking Out of My Blue Motel Room ... Don Larry, Please don't leave forever - you are a long-time good (and not to mention very funny) presence around here and we will miss you. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 22:50:49 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: for Ron Greer, njc My emails to you bounce back. Thanks for the most moving story on the Fighting 69th. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 11:12:15 -0400 From: Yael Harlap Subject: abuse etc NJC Debra wrote: > From this and things people have written to the list, it looks like >Marcel's been doing some work in the background campaigning to get back >on the list and bad mouthing and telling lies about me. I just want to let you know that on my part at least, this is not the case. I wrote what I did because I have been reflecting on it for a while, and then Lama's statement about cyber-rapist vs cyber-bully inspired me to state it. And in regards to your post about the off-list posting. I guess so much stuff was going on around the situation - and I do know that it wasn't just Debra or Colin's situation, my apologies for representing it as such (that was just the stuff that was most salient to me) - that there were a lot of grey areas. And I interpreted the most offensive part being the content of Marcel's emails. Rather than that the emails existed altogether. But I see Debra's point there, and Colin's, that numerous times people did ask Marcel to desist with the private emails. I don't know *what* Brian's email was all about, but it was awful, and disappointing. Although I can't say I don't care about what people think of each other - I *do* care, and want everyone to respect each other - it is MOST IMPORTANT that people ACT respectfully and thoughtfully. Not only on the list, but in real life. Not only in real life, but on the list. Sometimes (though I stress, not most of the time) I feel like we need an elementary school teacher in here reminding people to respect each other (Sue! Get your butt over here! just kidding). And in response to Bob... I *do* support Les' decision. I think it must have been quite a hard decision to make. I think that what was going on was unacceptable behavior, and that being removed from the list was an appropriate consequence. I don't know if I sound like I am talking out of both sides of my mouth, but what I really meant is that while I think that Les did the right thing, I also thought it would have been good for us, as a community, to figure out what the circumstances would be under which the booted-off person (Marcel, here, but I would feel the same about anyone, I like to think) could re-join the jmdl. what I liked about the situation: Marcel needed to be removed at that point - I agree. what I didn't like quite as much: that there was no clear provision of his future with the list, or not, as the case may be what I really didn't like: the way some people jumped to say mean things about, and to, Marcel I realize Bob wasn't talking only to me, there (I think), but because I am very sensitive that people interpret my words correctly and don't think "she is supporting marcel's behavior" or "she thinks les shouldn't have removed marcel" or anything... And there are still 100s of other great people on the list, some dozens of whom share their thoughts and feelings and ideas with us on a daily basis. Hooray for the list! The best online community I have encountered. Way, way the best. OK, I am going to try and be quiet now. :-) hugs, Yael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 23:38:09 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Re: Checking Out of My Blue Motel Room ... In a message dated 10/5/01 10:02:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, blondeinthebleachers@hotmail.com writes: << Maybe in the future, for the future of this list, people who find it necessary to "bid adieu" do it to the people with whom they have the most off list contact >> I must say, this is a pretty good idea. But only if it's not because they are going through some (hopefully happy) life change that prohibits their continuation. Less drama this way and less a stimulus for negative discussions for those of us that remain true We all make our own choices for reasons that are personal to us and maybe a few close friends - even cyber-friends. Then The Blonde wrote: >>Two members of this list had an hour lunch with the woman for whom we are all here talking about, that is why I read this list, and I don't think on any other list can a group of people who don't know each other get together for a weekend and sing and have fun and actually become friends, and trust each other although they only know each other from daily emails. << RIGHT ON!!!!! RIGHT ON!!! RIGHT ON!!!! I've made some amazing, new, and most likely enduring friendships from this community. Happy Friday everyone. No regrets, Coyote Rick Casa Alegre Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 21:03:01 -0700 From: Rick and Susan Subject: Re: proposed Joni sighting in London > From: Gertus@aol.com > Apparently she'll be in London in November, maybe we > could hang around some grill or cafe bar waiting for her to turn up. Problem > is: there are thousands of cafes in London... Any ideas? > Raffaele A friend who occasionally does engineering for Sir George Martin told me that Joni records in London at Martin's Air Studios. A good place to start looking? Ranger Rick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 22:33:17 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: cary grant (njc) someone asked for my cary grant story. cary was sitting as a guest of the (yahoo!) calgary stampede in the mid-sixties, directly in the seat in front of me. it was what's called the 'grandstand show' where after the big chuckwagen races, a couple of tractors pulls the two halves of a variety stage together and then you get ed sullivan's show... minus ed. and then the finale is the big fireworks. my mother, knowing more about cary grant than i did, was elbowing me like a good jewish mother to ask cary for his autograph. what did i care...i was only about 11, so fine ...i did, tapping on his shoulder: "mr. grant, could i have your autograph?" cary turns around and was very gracious: "young man, you know, i'm flattered, but i really must tell you i made a decision early on in my career not to do autographs....etc....etc...but thanks for asking!" and he spoke of other niceties and trivialities. this was not the end of it....mother, who is always such a lady, hasn't given up yet. a veteran of downing tnts with queen liz, she prevails on me again in knowing showbiz fashion... "offer him this centennial pin!" what the hell, like i say, i don't really know the significance of this bloke... it wouldn't be my style now...but i'm just a kid: "mr. grant, i'd like to give you this centennial pin!" "well, thankyou very much young man, i shall treasure your generosity." a few more niceties and generalities followed. then he turned back of course to watch the big show. probably 10 minutes go by.... then, so cooly, his hand searches me out...with the prized autograph... not a word either...just a cool move...he was probably smiling to himself.... so, mother, like it was genetic or something, decides to hide the autograph in the house somewhere...she has hid many a thing, behind a brick... in some old jar or box, behind the wall...whatever... we never did come up with it... its still hidden away somewere in the house... and is probably worth more than her car, she never finds anything she hides... but i think she secretly smiles to herself that she got me to get cary grant to do something he never ever did... shane ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 00:30:53 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: proposed Joni sighting in London Londoners, don't you think Joni might go to the Kashmir Klub? It's similar to Fez in NYC, which she's been to many times. It seems that lots of well-known artists are going to the Kashmir Klub -- Jane Siberry recently, and Emmylou Harris and Sheryl Crowe and somebody else that I can't remember now. It's a place I think Joni would like, and she just might show up there. Debra Shea Rick and Susan wrote: > > > From: Gertus@aol.com > > Apparently she'll be in London in November, maybe we > > could hang around some grill or cafe bar waiting for her to turn up. Problem > > is: there are thousands of cafes in London... Any ideas? > > Raffaele > > A friend who occasionally does engineering for Sir George Martin told me > that Joni records in London at Martin's Air Studios. A good place to start > looking? > > Ranger Rick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 21:29:20 -0700 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: Re: just venting njc Oh boy. Sigh... Here's a piece of mine: I never said Brian is not a "good person," nor have I touched on my private opinion of him in any way, shape or form. I said, and still believe, that what he emailed to Debra is unconscionable. Okay? Thank you. - -Julius > From Julius in response to a post from Debra Shea > > << I don't blame you at all for being angry, Debra. I'm horrified. There can > be no satisfactory explanation for what Brian sent you, in my opinion. >> > > > I've known Brian Gross for a number of years and yeah, we may all have less > than desirable private opinions of others, (goodness knows I do), but I do > know from long association with him, that he is a good person. > > Anyhow, I just wanted to say that piece of mine. > > Thanks, > > MG ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 01:04:37 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: A Brush with the Famous and Not a Hair Brush (njc) Dear Correspondents: Rick Braun is on the radio, a nice glass of chardonnay in hand and some thoughts about the *greatnesses* of our land in the head. Living where I do, brushes with the famous and infamous are regular events. One of my favorites was pumping gas with Mr. Pitt, but I already told you that story... This story is from the late 1970s. My beautiful boyfriend at the time, Mr. Wright (but oh so wrong -- you know, the guy giving me that Coyote name, but I already told you that story, too...), and I were hiking in Big Sur - way outside the established trails. I grew up spending a lot of time in that area (family has some property there) but found myself hopelessly lost and it was coming on night. It was also a hot summer day and we were long out of water. Suddenly, we came upon a secluded, small cabin. Rustic, but nicely kept. The most important thing was the lights being on and shining through the window. We knocked, looking for water and directions back to the village. A nice woman, Jane, answered the door, warmly welcoming us in for water and rest. Ah, the spirit of Big Sur. The cabin smelled of good food cooking. Bread baking. We rested, drank water, and talked about many things including music (Wright and Jane being musicians). I was startled to hear a shuffling in the other room. Jane said it was her friend sharing the cabin. She asked us to stay for dinner, then she would *jeep* us back to the village. All we had to add to the dinner was some herbal remedy. Her friend came out of the bedroom. A nice looking lady with pretty black/brown hair. We exchanged greetings and I noticed Wright becoming increasingly apoplectic. He kept kicking me. He finally got the word to me that our other hostess was Joan Baez. I had no idea who she was. He finally mouthed *Diamonds and Rust.* "Oh, yeah, that Dylan woman," I whispered back. Wright knew my 1970s, dyed-in-the-wool, KLOS R-N-R orientation would only recognize that work, if that. Some of us smoked stuff, drank, laughed a lot and had a great evening. They were so much fun. Joan even sang us a tune or two. So did her friend, Jane. So did Wright. Dinner was good, too! I don't know if it was their place or not. I think they were just visiting or it belonged to a friend. It wasn't a very feminine place. I don't really remember what she said about Joni (thus the NJC and a result of the smoke, or the wine, or both), but her name did come up, since Wright was the biggest JM fan. I do remember her saying they were good friends. It meant little to me who they were, I just liked them. One of the last things Wright said to me before he passed four years ago was "remember our night with Baez?" I held his hand and said, "yep, Wright, the night they drove us back to town." He smiled so sweetly. No regrets, Coyote Rick Casa Alegre Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 01:13:06 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: Brushes with greatness (njc) Very nice, Lama man! I was very touched by this post. I feel the same way about you and the rest of the JMDL. I feel very fortunate and blessed to be a part of this. Sherelle In a message dated 10/04/2001 10:00:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 20:56:29 -0400 > From: "jlamadoo, home account" > Subject: Brushes With Greatness, njc > > I exchanged emails with Wally and JJ, called Simon on the phone, hung out on > Paz'es back porch till 6AM, sent cassettes to Karen in the U.K., ate John's > cooking, hugged Claud9, argued with Marcel, forwarded a seed recording from > Paul, watched David sit down to an impromtu set in a private room at the New > Orleans' "House Of Blues", swapped for prints by Sue and Rose, got invited > back to Ashara's, experienced Sherelle's singing at close range, talked IT > with Steve, danced with Leslie, drank with JulZie, took a road trip with > Yael, visited an archetectural marvel with MG, provided background info for > a book on album covers, applauded Kate from the front row, accompanied > Victor, photographed Joni from the lip of the stage, heard countless > talented and amazing friends sing, play, and chat, felt the vibrating top of > Terry's guitar as she played in open tunings, and finally, I received > literary praise from Kakki. > > As my friend Niki says, > > "What ever you give > you get back > ten fold." > > > Love, > > Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 01:21:34 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Brush with greatness (njc) My most memorable brush with greatness was in 1975 when I was a freshman at Immaculate Heart College in LA. McMillan and Wife was shooting an outdoor scene and so my friend pulled over. I ran out of the car, and climbed up on a wall so that I could see better. When the shoot was over, Rock Hudson walked past me, smiled with that one-of-a-kind smile, looked me in the eye and said "hello." I almost fell off the wall! I've never been affected in a chance meeting like I was the day Rock Hudson said hello. I'll never forget how kind I thought he was to acknowledge my presence. It made me feel more special than I've ever felt in my life. Sherelle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 01:25:25 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re:ooh, low blow not to osama but to women! NJC Dear Yael, The way I took it, it was a comment made on the way the "Taliban" feel about women not the rest of us. I think we all agree that their attitude towards women is totally sexist, but it would be poetic justice for Bin Laden to be returned to them in what they consider a 'lowly" form. I think the shame remains upon them. Sherelle In a message dated 10/05/2001 12:07:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 13:25:22 -0400 > From: Yael Harlap > > > My friend the Lama quipped, about Osama having sex reassignment surgery: > > >I think he's already half way there, Mags. I mean, anyone who goes out of > >his way to kill civilians already has no balls. > > Now, not to attack personally, I *promise* - I know this was not intended > as anything but a quip criticizing Osama... but it really is the kind of > statement that our sexist society socializes us into, unjustly. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 22:29:52 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: just venting njc i am on digest, so my stuff often shows up later...my abuse post had NOTHING to do with brian...NOTHING... i was trying to support stuff the stuff colin & debra were talking about but i am really sorry if it confused anyone... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 14:00:19 -0400 From: Yael Harlap Subject: bad cop, no donut NJC NJC NJC Time for a little levity here. This totally cracked me up. - -Yael Police make doughnut run via chopper ASSOCIATED PRESS Oct. 5, 2001 | ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. -- Albuquerque police have taken doughnut runs to new heights, swooping down in an official helicopter for a late-night snack. "I don't know how they decided that was a good idea," said Lt. Bob Huntsman, department spokesman. Huntsman said the department is investigating. "If they violated policy or procedure, they're going to get disciplined for it," he said. "We've worked too hard to make this a professional unit to let lack of common sense tear us down." Keith Turner, who works near a Krispy Kreme doughnut shop, said he was on a break with other people early Thursday when a police helicopter circled and landed in a dirt field nearby. "I was like, `No, they'd better not go and get doughnuts,"' Turner said. As the helicopter idled, someone got out and went into the store, returning 10 or 15 minutes later with a Krispy Kreme box, he said. The chopper gave what Turner presumed was a goodbye toot on its police siren as it took off, he said. Huntsman confirmed it happened but said he had not yet spoken to those aboard. He said it appeared the two officers were near the end of their shift and probably were flying back to a hangar on the same side of town. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #466 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?