From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #447 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, September 27 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 447 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: 10 Desert Island CDs ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Let us melt tempers....hot emotions...SEX (njc) (nmc) (nic) :~) [FMYFL@ao] So ripe and Ready to diminish and deride NJC [Steve Polifka ] Re: silliness, etc and Good-byes [RobSher50@aol.com] Re: Happy Trails to you NJC [dsk ] this could be long, I dunno (njc) [Anne Sandstrom ] Fw: paul asks neil to join benefit NJC ["James L. Leonard" ] Re: The JMDL (a lurker's perspective) njc ["J. R. Mills" ] Re: So ripe and Ready to diminish and deride NJC ["Kakki" ] Re: new texas single njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Correction NJC ["Kakki" ] Re: Happy Trails to you NJC [Jerry Notaro ] RE: Morning Notes - NJC (Smurf Content) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: dryer lint (NJC) ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: dryer lint (NJC) [jan ] Fw: dryer lint (NJC) ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: dryer lint (NJC) ["Dolphie Bush" ] a whole bunch of stuff njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: a whole bunch of stuff njc ["Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: 10 Desert Island CDs This is always harder than I think it's going to be.... Joni - Hejira Stevie Wonder - Innervisions Cream - Disreali Gears A Tribe Called Quest - The Low End Theory Cassandra Wilson - New Moon Daughter Vince Guaraldi Trio - A Charlie Brown Christmas Branford Marsalis - Romances for Saxophone Gillespie Y Machito - Afro-Cuban Jazz Moods Radiohead - The Bends John Coltrane - My Favorite Things Brenda n.p.: KCRW ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:58:54 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Let us melt tempers....hot emotions...SEX (njc) (nmc) (nic) :~) Bree asks: << If, you could make love to anyone on planet earth besides your significant other, who would that person be and what music would you have playing? >> Why Jim Nabors of course, and we'd be listening to his version of "Both Sides Now" :~) and I hope some of you don't take me seriously like you did for my top 10 deserted island cd's. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:20:41 -0500 From: Steve Polifka Subject: So ripe and Ready to diminish and deride NJC To whom this may concern: I was not going to touch this, but: Who the fuck are you people to condemn anyone else? Have you all met Vince? I have, and have emailed him in many a private conversation. I consider him to be a wonderful human being. Or Marcel? He made a joke to a post I made not too long ago, and sent me a private email hoping he didn't offend me. I had to laugh because he was hilarious! And he knocked me over with his warm side in New Orleans. Get off your high self-worshipping ass and look in the mirror. When you are not mortal then post this shit.(See the following below my post.). You snipe so steady, snub so snide... Just like terrorists. Haven't you had enough? Instead of criticizing this and that over the internet, why don't you get out in the real world, deal with real people and real issues and get some perspective on what's really goin' on. Oh, don't you know? It's not us and them. It's just us... Steve p.s. When you are better than the rest of the planet, and not just in your mind, feel free to criticize... >Maybe it was, but I can tell you that I received several private >posts >thanking me for saying what others had been thinking. <>One longtime and respected JMDLer said, "His constant positioning >as the >JMDL Preacher' makes my skin crawl." >Paul I Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 10:36:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Desert island CDs nJC > But the DREAM would turn into a NIGHTMARE when > you find out that all Joni wants to is smash wild > berries to make paints! :~) Hmm ... that has all kinds of possibilities ... ; ) Lori, who - in lieu of any other possibilities - could be content watching Joni smash wild berries all day, for days on end ... ~ Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:38:55 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: silliness, etc and Good-byes What a wonderfully honest statement! I laughed so hard when I read this! So true. Thanks for sharing it! Sherelle In a message dated 09/27/2001 9:19:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > "Family aren't necessarily persons with whom you share genes, > but those with which you occasionally share flatulence." > > That includes the verbal variety, too. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:00:36 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Happy Trails to you NJC Jerry Notaro wrote: > > have read the entire post to comment on it, but what part of "discussion of > historical facts" do you not understand? He was not preaching, not educating > about religion, but of history. Correcting facts. Something you do all the time > on this list. And the fact that he IS an ordained priest of the Catholic Church NO!!! He's not. Please, let's straighten this out right now. Vince was ordained in the Lutheran Church, and broke off with that to start (or join) a much smaller separate church. From the look of his website his current church has retained many of the Lutheran ways of worshiping. How confusing his posts must have been if people are thinking he's a Catholic priest! Lutherans and Catholics have many similarities so it's hard sometimes for people to see a difference between them. One huge difference is in the political structure of the churches, with each Lutheran congregation having much more freedom so they can sponsor some very unusual ministries. One Lutheran church where I worked as the communications editor has a Jazz Ministry started almost 40 years ago by a pastor who loved jazz and who ministered to the musicians who would probably never go into a church building. His work was supported by the congregation of the church I was working in. There were also many openly gay members in that congregation, which I saw as a very good thing since the claim of Christianity is that God has created us all and loves us all unconditionally. Another huge difference is that Catholic priests are not allowed to marry and are expected to remain celibate (whether they do or not is a separate issue) and they usually live in a community with other priests. There's no way as a Catholic priest that Vince could now be raising grandchildren. > means he is an authority on the subject whose opinions on a discussed topic are > more than educated. Since Vince is ordained in the Lutheran Church, he would have a formal education in theology, **from the Lutherans' point of view**. I know from being a Catholic and working with the Lutherans for several years that there are many similarities between the two groups and many differences too, and almost always some (usually friendly) rivalry. I always paid attention to what Vince had to say but never took him as an authority on Christianity, especially not on what the Catholic Church teaches. His views were certainly valid, as are everyone's, but limited too, again as are everyone's, my own included! I hope that Vince returns soon. The more voices here the better. With lots of people talking there's some chance of getting a hint of the bigger picture that we're each unable to see on our own. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:05:40 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: this could be long, I dunno (njc) Well, good news comes and good news goes. or "just when you think you've finally got it made bad news comes knocking at your garden gate." In short, I had an MRI to try to confirm what the last CT scan indicated - that the tumor has shrunk or was gone. I got the MRI results this morning. They show what all the previous scans had indicated. There is a tumor. It's where they've been watching. It's my option, but they're recommending surgery. I do have a question. Has anyone else had an NG tube post surgery? What was it like? I have visions of gagging for days! Oh, my dear friends. It makes me so sad to have to share this with you. Damn, it was mice being a 'walking miracle' for a couple of weeks :-) I hope this doesn't sound self indulgent. I've now heard this reaction from other cancer patients and talked to the social worker at Dana-Farber, who indicated she has not only heard this from patients, but that this has been kind of all the buzz at DFCI. I felt like the Tuesday morning of the attack, the whole rest of the world knew what receiving the diagnosis feels like. It made me so sad. And apparently, other patients felt the same thing. Terrible sadness for everyone else who before that day felt like they were on solid ground. That observation has had a dramatic effect on the doctors and staff. They have a sober understanding of what getting the news is like, on a very personal level. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying "gee, I'm in the same position as those who lost their lives or loved ones." But the sense of sorrow and insecurity is very similar. I've learned how to cope. I'm still learning. So, if I may humbly offer to anyone to share some of the small techniques I've learned, I'd be happy to. I think that may be what I'm supposed to do with this? I still believe miracles happen. Call them occurrences that are highly improbable if you will. You are a grand community. Yeah, we've been squabbling. That's what happens when the earth quakes under your feet. But you have the love to heal - and maybe even the love to cure. If someone could send this along to the recent 'defectors from the petty wars' I'd be most grateful. I'm tired and I'm going to take a nap now. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:33:06 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Ireland NJC Mike Pritchard wrote: > > Debra wrote: > >>More Brits were killed in the attack on the WTC than have been killed in the > entire history of terrorism in England; hearing that shocked me considering > the number of incidents that have occurred there.<< > > This needs a little clarification, given the propensity that exists in many > places to use 'England' to refer to Great Britain or the United Kingdom (i.e. > including Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland as if they were mere regions). Hi Mike, The week of the 11th is something of a fog for me so I'm not exactly sure of the specifics. My best guess is that it's something I heard Tony Blair say on TV and since I'm now picturing him with Chirac, think it was probably at the press conference he and Chirac had in Paris soon after the attacks. I'm pretty sure he did say England, rather than Great Britain. And, of course, it was said with the intention of getting the British people especially to back him in whatever decisions he made. Whether Blair's statement is even accurate, I don't know. Always have to take a politician's statements with a grain of salt. It did get my attention, though, in the sense of, wow, that must be a lot of people since terrorism is something Europe has been dealing with for a very long time. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:05:24 -0400 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Fw: paul asks neil to join benefit NJC - ----- Original Message ----- From: bh To: rust list Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 2:57 PM Subject: paul asks neil to join benefit US-TERRORISM/CONCERT PAUL MCCARTNEY TO STAGE BENEFIT CONCERT FOR FIREFIGHTERS' FAMILIES 09/27/2001 EFE News Service Copyright (C) 2001 EFE News Services (U.S.) Inc.; Source: World Reporter (TM) London, Sep 27 (EFE).- Former Beatle Paul McCartney is hoping to recruit other stars for a New York concert to benefit the families of firefighters who perished in the attacks on the World Trade Center. A spokeswoman for the legendary musician said Thursday that the organizers of the event, set for Oct. 20 at Madison Square Garden, are approaching Rolling Stones' lead singer Mick Jagger and veteran rocker Neil Young to appear onstage with McCartney. Former Beatle Ringo Starr has already come onboard for the event. After the support shown by other media outlets such as MTV, British television networks have also expressed interest in broadcasting the event in their country. According to his spokeswoman, McCartney was in New York on Sept. 11, when the World Trade Center towers collapsed after being hit by two planes hijacked by terrorists, and "like everyone, has been affected very deeply by it." The musician, who announced his plans for the concert on Sept. 21, said he wants to help all those who have suffered in the "horrible tragedy." The ex-Beatle has always felt a special respect for firefighters because his father, Jim McCartney, worked as a volunteer firefighter in his native Liverpool during World War II. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:04:36 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Happy Trails to you NJC dsk wrote: > Jerry Notaro wrote: > > > > have read the entire post to comment on it, but what part of "discussion of > > historical facts" do you not understand? He was not preaching, not educating > > about religion, but of history. Correcting facts. Something you do all the time > > on this list. > > And the fact that he IS an ordained priest of the Catholic Church > > NO!!! He's not. Please, let's straighten this out right now. Vince was > ordained in the Lutheran Church, and broke off with that to start (or > join) a much smaller separate church. Vince IS a priest of the Catholic Church. He is not a member of the Roman Catholic Church. Though Roman Catholics (of which I was raised) do not like to admit it, there are many other Catholic Churches, such as the Polish National Catholic, The Old Roman Catholic, and the Old Catholic Church of America, which Vince ministers. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:05:03 -0700 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: Re: The JMDL (a lurker's perspective) njc Thank you for your thoughtful reply, Jim. Let me start by saying that I never intended to suggest that you have a cold heart...on the contrary, my impression is that yours is a heart of gold. (I'm a big Neil Young fan, too.) However, to be honest, I didn't find much constructive in your original post on this subject. I'm heartened by your more assuaged comments today though. My primary beef with your original post was how you seemed to be arbitrarily ascribing motives to people. I'm glad to see that you've backed away from that, somewhat. Bully for you, too. :-) > I do think some of the public posts of what, I believe, should be privately > communicated are, by very virtue of their public nature, suspect in their > sincerity and their motivations. They read as self-congratulatory to me > because of the context, whereas, if I were to receive these types of > messages off-list when I needed comfort and support, I would be thrilled, > and know they are from the heart. We disagree. Well, first off you'd have to be more specific about the exact nature of the public posts you're referring to. But generally speaking, I don't see how saying something publicly rather privately diminishes the message's sincerity at all. I'd argue that the opposite is true. (Isn't that what weddings are about, for example.) And I believe that one should judge not that ye be not judged, when it comes to motive. Despite the fact that I'm posting this reply to you publicly, I hope you will not write off my sentiments as being disingenuous. > My post was born of frustration with the constant bickering and the > purported defections, and was sent in the hope my opinion on this would be > seen as a constructive one. I saw something I thought was true about the > list, and which I still stand behind today, and I said it out loud. For what > it's worth, I received many words of agreement off-list, and some from > people I was very pleasantly surprised to receive them from (and who shall > forever remain nameless, you have my word). What one person perceives as bickering, others see as reasoned debate. Again, you'd have to be specific about what posts you mean. If I followed your reasoning, I would not be putting much stock in the sincerity of your comments, coming as they are in a public forum. You should email us all privately if you really mean it, shouldn't you? As to all the off-list words of agreement you've received, I say "great" and "so what?" Have none of these people ever been guilty of coming to the JMDL for conversation and a measure of comfort, sometimes? Perhaps the next time someone gets out of you comfort zone with their posts on the JMDL, you should email them privately on an ad hoc basis rather than admonishing all 800 of us. I just don't see the utility in blanket indictments for individual behaviors. >The other lists to which I'm subscribed have a similar-to-one-another, very >different character than that of the JMDL. Whatever support one lister >wishes to be to another in a time of personal crisis or blessed event seems >to be communicated off-list, because there are none of the types of posts I >see here. Close personal friendships do develop on these lists, but they >develop off-list. I was on the Neil Young list for awhile and it has its attributes. To each his or her own, but give me the JMDL...any day. The Rust-list type communitiy with its anonymity ("handles"), ticket grovels and ubiquitous bootleg trading is one of the alternatives you thought I forgot to mention, by the way. That's all fine, it's just not my cup of tea at this juncture and I don't think it's anything that the JMDL should aspire to at all. >I have no intention of unsubscribing, and have every intention of continuing >to read the digest. The atmosphere on the list, however, encourages a >conformity to a "type" of involvement in it, which I am not comfortable >with, as I said yesterday, "from a participatory standpoint." Great! It's comforting to know you'll be somewhere out there taking it all in, man. It's always a pleasure hearing from you too, Jim. Post more on jazz, man! You like Joshua Redman? I'd love to send you some and discuss it with you. Joni should record or perform with him, don't you think. I know he's covered her. I think you're mistaken about your perception that the list encourages a certain type of involvement, though. I hereby encourage you to post whatever you feel comfortable posting. After all, what is the virtue in taking without giving something back? Getting your intelligent and well-informed input on music can only serve to make the List a better place. Should I have said that privately?. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 20:57:45 +0100 From: "joe farrell" Subject: new texas single njc Driving in to work this morning listening to BBC radio they played the new single by Texas, one of the lines is: "you brush against a stranger and you both apologise" Now where have i heard that before? Joe. NP: Kathryn Williams Little Black Numbers. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:01:40 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: So ripe and Ready to diminish and deride NJC Steve wrote: > Have you all met Vince? I have, and have emailed him >in many a private conversation. I consider him to be a >wonderful human being. > Or Marcel? > He made a joke to a post I made not too long ago, >and sent me a private >email hoping he didn't offend me. I had to laugh because >he was hilarious! > And he knocked me over with his warm side in > New Orleans. And from what I've heard stated by both of them, Vince and Marcel (who it can be said, probably without any debate, are political opposites) were/are very close friends. In fact, some may recall that Marcel dedicated his music set to Vince in Topsfield a few weeks ago. Vince has shown himself to have a caring heart and he is just as human and fallible as the rest of us. I don't want to cause more anguish here, especially because I seemed to be caught in the middle of the thread that hurt Vince, but others have put in their thoughts and I feel I have to say something. I feel bad he was hurt by anything Debra or I wrote. I could not see anything Debra wrote that called Vince Anti-Catholic. She said he wrote vehemently and that is also what I perceived and she said it appeared he did not like some things about the Roman Catholic church, which I also perceived. Both Debra and I have all indicated we don't like a lot of things about the Roman Catholic church, so to me, that is a common ground we all have for discussion. As Debra and Jerry pointed out, Vince is a minister in a church that includes the name Catholic, which is not recognized by the Roman Catholic church. Likewise, the church Vince ministers in does not recognize Rome. These groups of other Catholic churches have made their break with the RCC, just as the Protestants made their break centuries ago. I'm saying one is right or wrong - I have friends who have left the RCC to embrace these other Catholic churches. I also believe that all religions should be respected and it turns me off when ANY religion says that theirs is the "true church," whether it be Roman Catholics or ANY other ones we know. As someone who has seemed to been put in the middle of this, I am not sure what else to say. I'm confused at some of the posts directed to me here sometimes and I waver between letting them go without comment or seeking to clarify and sometimes defend myself. At any rate, I do apologize for causing or adding to anyone's discomfort here. I am very appreciative of those who have been supportive to me and I strongly ask that no one strike out against them for that support. Take it up with me privately, please. I don't have much time to have long private email exchanges (my best friends here know I am pretty bad about replying timely) but I hope to continue this offlist if it needs to be continued. Thank you to those who have been indulgent of me. May all the good people who have left return. We do need their voices. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 21:01:11 +0100 From: Howard Subject: Joni piano music to "For Free" A note to all piano players on the list: I've added a transcription of the piano part to "For Free" to the JMDL site. If you're interested, check it out at: www.jmdl.com/guitar Follow the link in the "recent additions" box, or use the search facility and choose type: piano music. Enjoy! Howard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:57:49 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Re: Happy Trails to you NJC Jerry writes: Though Roman Catholics (of which I was raised) do not like to admit it, there are many other Catholic Churches, such as the Polish National Catholic, The Old Roman Catholic, and the Old Catholic Church of America, which Vince ministers. Coyote Rick asks: I am a life-long practicing Episcopalian and in our mass, we say the Nicene Creed. Part of that creed includes the words, *I believe in the holy catholic and apostolic church.* Is this what you mean, Jerry? I noticed that in my prayer book that catholic is not capitolized. I remember as a young acolyte asking my mom why it says this since we aren't Catholic. She never really explained it to me and I don't think I have thought about it again until now. No regrets, Coyote Rick Casa Alegre Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:07:59 -0400 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Fw: "Come Together: A Night for John Lennon's Music (NJC) - ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ Dugoni Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 3:49 PM Subject: [Vantrades] "Come Together: A Night for John Lennon's Music (NVC) FYI: ...A TV special will air next Tuesday, October 2, entitled "Come Together: A Night for John Lennon's Words & Music". It will air on some local stations and on TNT. Here's the recap of it from TV Guide Online. Music stars pay tribute to John Lennon's legacy by performing his songs in concert. Kevin Spacey hosts the event, which benefits New York disaster-relief organizations. Slated acts include Alanis Morissette (singing Dear Prudence), Marc Anthony (Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds) and Cyndi Lauper (Strawberry Fields Forever), along with the Dave Matthews Band, Stone Temple Pilots, the Isley Brothers, Lou Reed, Moby, Nelly Furtado and Yolanda Adams. When asked how songs were selected for the concert, Yoko Ono, Lennon's widow and an executive producer of the program, says, "[Artists are] doing this out of their love for John, and respect. And so I really feel that unless it clashes with somebody else, they should choose the songs. And they have." She adds, "I really like the fact that they chose really good songs. Well, there isn't a bad song. Let's put it that way." Ono hopes that the concert will appeal to all ages but is especially pleased to have young performers included . "I think we should all have fun and be totally excited by the music," she says, "and I think that's going to happen." Ono also offers her feelings on how Lennon, who was slain at age 40 in 1980, made such a profound contribution to popular culture in his short life. "I think that somehow people who die young...might [sense they will] on a very subconscious level," Ono says. "And so they're in a rush. [John's] life was totally intense." She adds, "I'm feeling that his spirit is still around, and kind of helping us all. - -- http://www.tnt.tv/Specials/0,6752,,00.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:07:59 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: Joni piano music to "For Free" Thank you Howard... Peace.....Sharon who just returned from her jazz piano lesson Howard wrote: > > A note to all piano players on the list: > > I've added a transcription of the piano part to "For Free" to the JMDL > site. If you're interested, check it out at: > > www.jmdl.com/guitar > > Follow the link in the "recent additions" box, or use the search > facility and choose type: piano music. > > Enjoy! > > Howard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:18:31 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Happy Trails to you NJC Oh, I see what you mean. Whenever I see the word Catholic capitalized I take that to mean the Roman Catholic Church. I think most people do because of the huge numbers of Roman Catholics compared to the numbers of people in other Catholic churches. Vince himself said recently he was ordained in the Lutheran Church. The fact that the word Catholic is now part of the title of the church in which he ministers is confusing. Even with that word as part of the name of his current church, I would not call him a Catholic priest because that has certain implications that can't be avoided. Whatever he would call himself, his theological training was not as a Roman Catholic, and he did not make that clear in what he wrote, even though he was talking specifically, and with supposed authority, about the Roman Catholic Church. That is the point I was trying to make. Debra Shea Jerry Notaro wrote: > > Vince IS a priest of the Catholic Church. He is not a member of the Roman Catholic Church. Though Roman Catholics (of which I was raised) do not like to admit it, > there are many other Catholic Churches, such as the Polish National Catholic, The > Old Roman Catholic, and the Old Catholic Church of America, which Vince ministers. > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:13:09 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: new texas single njc <<"you brush against a stranger and you both apologise" Now where have i heard that before?>> Thanks for reminding me, Joe. The song "Gin" on the Amy Correia CD I've been praising reminds me a lot of "Down To You". Both are one-night-stand songs, detailing the futility & emptiness of that experience. I won't post Amy's entire lyric here, but if you're interested you can check it out at: http://hollywoodandvine.com/amycorreia/gin.html Bob NP: XTC, "The Last Balloon" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:26:08 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Correction NJC Arrr, there I go again and this time my excuse is a patch over my left eye (been getting lots of "so where the parrot sitting on your left shoulder, too?" comments at work, ;-) Please insert the word "not" before the word "saying" here. > I'm saying one is right or > wrong - Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:17:43 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Happy Trails to you NJC Coyote4Joni@aol.com wrote: > Jerry writes: > > Though Roman Catholics (of which I was raised) do not like to admit it, there are many other Catholic Churches, such as the Polish National Catholic, The Old Roman Catholic, and the Old Catholic Church of America, which Vince ministers. > > Coyote Rick asks: > > I am a life-long practicing Episcopalian and in our mass, we say the Nicene Creed. Part of that creed includes the words, *I believe in the holy catholic and apostolic church.* Is this what you mean, Jerry? I noticed that in my prayer book that catholic is not capitolized. I remember as a young acolyte asking my mom why it says this since we aren't Catholic. She never really explained it to me and I don't think I have thought about it again until now. No. catholic with small c means universal. Though the Anglican and Episcopals are the direct descendants of the Roman Catholic Church, I believe, and the Old Catholic ( Capital C because it is an organized religion) Church of America is a direct American descent of the English Anglican Church. They have a The Rite of Ordination to the Sacred Priesthood, just as the Roman Catholic Church does. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 17:54:31 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Morning Notes - NJC (Smurf Content) not only that, bob. i have PICTURES... wk, np bjork ''it's not up to you'' - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de SCJoniGuy@aol.com Enviado el: Jueves, 27 de Septiembre de 2001 10:48 a.m. Para: MGVal@aol.com CC: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Morning Notes - NJC (Smurf Content) The Smurf doll and I had only a one-night stand, witnessed by Jody, Suze, and Wally K who were shameless in their voyuerism! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 17:25:52 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: this could be long, I dunno (njc) Dear Anne, I'm so sorry to hear of your recent health challenges. I've only met you once before, ever so briefly in Topsfield year before last, but you've made a very positive impression on me with your inspired music and your sweetness and sensitivity on the List. I recall being reduced to tears as you sang your composition, "Wounded Eyes" so beaufifully that day in MA. "Wounded Eyes" is right up there with Kate Bennett's "Irene" and Claudia's rendition of "Conversation" on my list of favorite JMDL member originals. I'll be praying for you and hoping that whatever therapies you choose will work wonders for you. - -Julius npimh: Anne Sandstrom, "Wounded Eyes" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:43:25 -0500 From: "Steve Polifka" Subject: Re: So ripe and Ready to diminish and deride NJC Hi Kakki, First of all, I should have directed my earlier post to that certain individual that ticked me off. You have been such a good friend to me, thank you for writing this post in response. It was not directed at you or Debra, but more at the attitude that seems to be abundant at times on the JMDL. To everyone: I'm angry that Marcel was removed. I'm sad that Vince and others decide to leave for nothing more than (if I'm distilling this down too far, forgive me) semantics. Here's a quote I want to share... "You wanna know the truth?' he said gruffly, the sparkle in his eyes returned as he loosened his grip on my wrists. "There is no truth; there is only perception. Everything on the planet is a perception. Love, fear, hate- it's all perception. And you want some words from me? What are words? Inadequate symbols used to convey a message or a feeling, all of which can be misconstrued, misunderstood or misinterpreted. Or misused. "And you like words, doncha. You use them cleverly- sometimes to the point of where you piss others off..." And to quote the Bee Gees: They're only words And words are all I have To take your heart away... Look at all the things we can do with words... Peace, Steve - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kakki" To: "Steve Polifka" ; Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 3:01 PM Subject: Re: So ripe and Ready to diminish and deride NJC > Steve wrote: > > > Have you all met Vince? I have, and have emailed him >in many a private > conversation. I consider him to be a >wonderful human being. > > Or Marcel? > > He made a joke to a post I made not too long ago, >and sent me a > private > >email hoping he didn't offend me. I had to laugh because >he was hilarious! > > And he knocked me over with his warm side in > > New Orleans. > > And from what I've heard stated by both of them, Vince and Marcel (who it > can be said, probably without any debate, are political opposites) were/are > very close friends. In fact, some may recall that Marcel dedicated his > music set to Vince in Topsfield a few weeks ago. Vince has shown himself to > have a caring heart and he is just as human and fallible as the rest of us. > > I don't want to cause more anguish here, especially because I seemed to be > caught in the middle of the thread that hurt Vince, but others have put in > their thoughts and I feel I have to say something. I feel bad he was hurt > by anything Debra or I wrote. I could not see anything Debra wrote that > called Vince Anti-Catholic. She said he wrote vehemently and that is also > what I perceived and she said it appeared he did not like some things about > the Roman Catholic church, which I also perceived. Both Debra and I have > all indicated we don't like a lot of things about the Roman Catholic church, > so to me, that is a common ground we all have for discussion. As Debra and > Jerry pointed out, Vince is a minister in a church that includes the name > Catholic, which is not recognized by the Roman Catholic church. Likewise, > the church Vince ministers in does not recognize Rome. These groups of other > Catholic churches have made their break with the RCC, just as the > Protestants made their break centuries ago. I'm saying one is right or > wrong - I have friends who have left the RCC to embrace these other Catholic > churches. I also believe that all religions should be respected and it > turns me off when ANY religion says that theirs is the "true church," > whether it be Roman Catholics or ANY other ones we know. > > As someone who has seemed to been put in the middle of this, I am not sure > what else to say. I'm confused at some of the posts directed to me here > sometimes and I waver between letting them go without comment or seeking to > clarify and sometimes defend myself. At any rate, I do apologize for > causing or adding to anyone's discomfort here. I am very appreciative of > those who have been supportive to me and I strongly ask that no one strike > out against them for that support. Take it up with me privately, please. I > don't have much time to have long private email exchanges (my best friends > here know I am pretty bad about replying timely) but I hope to continue this > offlist if it needs to be continued. > > Thank you to those who have been indulgent of me. May all the good people > who have left return. We do need their voices. > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:38:34 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: Correction NJC Ahoy Matey! I already knew the 'Not' belonged there. Buccaneer Buffington Kakki wrote: > > Arrr, there I go again and this time my excuse is a patch over my left eye > (been getting lots of "so where the parrot sitting on your left shoulder, > too?" comments at work, ;-) > > Please insert the word "not" before the word "saying" here. > > > I'm saying one is right or > > wrong - > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 19:07:04 EDT From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Safe topics/my perspective (NJC) In a message dated 9/27/01 4:03:44 AM, MGVal@aol.com writes: >And hey! Mary the Newbie! Where's your post? Get it in there gal! Hello, It seems to me the JMDL could be a much safer place if people confine themselves to boring topics. MG suggested the following: "Maybe we just need to pretend we are talking about GAAP. At the very least, we'll be asleep before the next post hits the inbasket." In this spirit, I hereby nominate the most boring topics I can think of: 1. Dryer lint 2. Federal regulations (name your topic) 3. Stating the obvious (my, the sky is blue today. How exciting. And unless it rains or it's cloudy (or there's a nuclear war) the sky will be blue tomorrow too). 4. Product safety information - all those labels with the really tiny print that no one reads. I challenge you all to make these topics interesting. I'm a relative newcomer, and I've noticed that there's a lot of passion in these exchanges, but everyone has a valid point. In other words, I haven't see any truly off-the-wall emails such as I saw on another listserv, in which several people accused the US government of orchestrating this tragedy so that we'd have an excuse to go to war. As a Fed myself, I took that opportunity to leave the list. Something about being accused of cold-blooded murder just doesn't sit too well with me. Mary ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 20:17:46 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: dryer lint (NJC) well, dryer lint turns me on. i have often pictured myself lying in the nude in a pile of dryer lint. suddenly, ed harris enters the laundry basement and says, ''hey, all that lint is a fire hazard''. and i say, ''that's the idea, baby...'' wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Enviado el: Jueves, 27 de Septiembre de 2001 08:07 p.m. Para: joni@smoe.org CC: revrvl@chartermi.net Asunto: Safe topics/my perspective (NJC) In this spirit, I hereby nominate the most boring topics I can think of: 1. Dryer lint ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 18:40:27 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: dryer lint (NJC) Okay, I will play. the dryer that I have is not designed well. The thing that catches the lint is located on the top so when you take it out to empty it, it goes everywhere. That wasn't much fun, Mary. Mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wally Kairuz" To: ; Cc: Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 6:17 PM Subject: dryer lint (NJC) > well, dryer lint turns me on. i have often pictured myself lying in the nude > in a pile of dryer lint. suddenly, ed harris enters the laundry basement and > says, ''hey, all that lint is a fire hazard''. and i say, ''that's the idea, > baby...'' > wallyK > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > TimandMaryPowers@aol.com > Enviado el: Jueves, 27 de Septiembre de 2001 08:07 p.m. > Para: joni@smoe.org > CC: revrvl@chartermi.net > Asunto: Safe topics/my perspective (NJC) > > > In this spirit, I hereby nominate the most boring topics I can think of: > > 1. Dryer lint ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:45:18 -0700 From: jan Subject: Re: dryer lint (NJC) (snip) >> well, dryer lint turns me on. i have often pictured myself lying in the >nude >> in a pile of dryer lint. suddenly, ed harris enters the laundry basement >and >> says, ''hey, all that lint is a fire hazard''. and i say, ''that's the >idea, >> baby...'' >> wallyK I've often sat upon washers when they go through the spin cycle. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 18:53:16 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Fw: dryer lint (NJC) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dolphie Bush" To: "Dolphie Bush" Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 6:50 PM Subject: Re: dryer lint (NJC) > I just cannot work with lint, unless of course Ann-Margret was doing the > laundry. Though as a general rule not a stargazer or rabid fan type, and > usually prefer the other sex, Ann could change my mind, in a hurry. ahhhhh. Who made up the island game? Can I have Ann there with me? > > > mack > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dolphie Bush" > To: "joni" > Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 6:40 PM > Subject: Re: dryer lint (NJC) > > > > Okay, I will play. the dryer that I have is not designed well. The thing > > that catches the lint is located on the top so when you take it out to > empty > > it, it goes everywhere. That wasn't much fun, Mary. > > > > > > Mack > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Wally Kairuz" > > To: ; > > Cc: > > Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 6:17 PM > > Subject: dryer lint (NJC) > > > > > > > well, dryer lint turns me on. i have often pictured myself lying in the > > nude > > > in a pile of dryer lint. suddenly, ed harris enters the laundry basement > > and > > > says, ''hey, all that lint is a fire hazard''. and i say, ''that's the > > idea, > > > baby...'' > > > wallyK > > > > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > > > TimandMaryPowers@aol.com > > > Enviado el: Jueves, 27 de Septiembre de 2001 08:07 p.m. > > > Para: joni@smoe.org > > > CC: revrvl@chartermi.net > > > Asunto: Safe topics/my perspective (NJC) > > > > > > > > > In this spirit, I hereby nominate the most boring topics I can think of: > > > > > > 1. Dryer lint ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 18:55:03 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: dryer lint (NJC) Ooooh Jan, that sounds like fun. Can I join you? Mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: "jan" To: "joni" Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 6:45 PM Subject: Re: dryer lint (NJC) > (snip) > >> well, dryer lint turns me on. i have often pictured myself lying in the > >nude > >> in a pile of dryer lint. suddenly, ed harris enters the laundry basement > >and > >> says, ''hey, all that lint is a fire hazard''. and i say, ''that's the > >idea, > >> baby...'' > >> wallyK > > I've often sat upon washers when they go through the spin cycle. > -jan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:59:08 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: a whole bunch of stuff njc MG, keep posting! I love your posts they make me laugh! Jim Leonard, it is so good to hear from you, I wondered where you were...please post more often! Just a comment on this paragraph: "I do think some of the public posts of what, I believe, should be privately communicated are, by very virtue of their public nature, suspect in their sincerety and their motivations. They read as self-congratulatory to me because of the context, whereas, if I were to receive these types of messages off-list when I needed comfort and support, I would be thrilled, and know they are from the heart." I usually just post publicly & sometimes try to remember to cc the individual too. But I am on digest & often too lazy to do all that work. I like publicly posting to the individual because it feels like a big party of people sitting around all having a conversation together. Just so you know that not all of the public personal posts might be suspect as you said. Vince- I do not think he was trying to be the preacher here. He was just sharing who he is, just like the those of us who talk about ourselves here. I found him to be one of the most open minded devoutly religious people I have ever (not) met. And his presence added to the really wonderful diverse mix of people on this list. I have to speak up for him again because there were a few people who reacted to his leaving in a really cruel way. Vince is going through some really painful stuff right now, worrying about his son who he doesn't know where he is & being grandpa to his son's son. People keep leaving out Steve Dulson in the list of folks who unsubscribed. Why I am here- I joined because of my great awe of Joni's music but I stay here because of the incredible variety of people & the deep intelligence that I have not found on any other list I am on. Sometimes I think of unsubing because I think I spend too much time on the computer. Maybe a time will come when I have to do that but I know I will come back if I do ever leave. It is hard to be a lurker for me but maybe I will try doing that. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 19:25:33 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: a whole bunch of stuff njc Please don't lurk Kate, I like it when you write. I am sorry for the silly posts folks. I am so bored. Have been as constructive as I can today and now, all alone here in oblivion. 20 miles to the store, 45 miles to beer, endless miles to anywhere, too many miles to someone. Help me out. What are you listening to right now and what does it tell you, mean to, take you away to. come on, play. Mack I am listening to the Commodores. the particular song is brick house. Takes me to a bar called the Merrimac in Ft. Worth, Tx. in the late 70's. Dancing, dancing, dancing. My brother, me, my cousin Janet and her husband Janet. His name was Gary. We would spend the entire night talking to each other exclusively. Wanted each other. More than I can say. What a mess, what a predicament. And what to do about Janet. Needless to say, I did the right thing. Haven't seen him in years. will never know, will I? Mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" To: "Joni@Smoe. Org" Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 6:59 PM Subject: a whole bunch of stuff njc > MG, keep posting! I love your posts they make me laugh! > > Jim Leonard, it is so good to hear from you, I wondered where you > were...please post more often! > > Just a comment on this paragraph: > "I do think some of the public posts of what, I believe, should be privately > communicated are, by very virtue of their public nature, suspect in their > sincerety and their motivations. They read as self-congratulatory to me > because of the context, whereas, if I were to receive these types of > messages off-list when I needed comfort and support, I would be thrilled, > and know they are from the heart." > > I usually just post publicly & sometimes try to remember to cc the > individual too. But I am on digest & often too lazy to do all that work. I > like publicly posting to the individual because it feels like a big party of > people sitting around all having a conversation together. Just so you know > that not all of the public personal posts might be suspect as you said. > > Vince- I do not think he was trying to be the preacher here. He was just > sharing who he is, just like the those of us who talk about ourselves here. > I found him to be one of the most open minded devoutly religious people I > have ever (not) met. And his presence added to the really wonderful diverse > mix of people on this list. I have to speak up for him again because there > were a few people who reacted to his leaving in a really cruel way. Vince is > going through some really painful stuff right now, worrying about his son > who he doesn't know where he is & being grandpa to his son's son. > > People keep leaving out Steve Dulson in the list of folks who unsubscribed. > > Why I am here- I joined because of my great awe of Joni's music but I stay > here because of the incredible variety of people & the deep intelligence > that I have not found on any other list I am on. Sometimes I think of > unsubing because I think I spend too much time on the computer. Maybe a time > will come when I have to do that but I know I will come back if I do ever > leave. It is hard to be a lurker for me but maybe I will try doing that. > > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett > www.katebennett.com > sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com > Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: > http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html > ******************************************** ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #447 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?