From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #443 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, September 26 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 443 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- song by a friend (njc) ["shane mattison" ] Harbourfront Tribute October ["Stephen Epstein" ] I can do this one last time NJC [Vince Lavieri ] Top Ten Island Discs ["Ron Greer" ] Virus warning and questions NJC ["Ron Greer" ] No where else ["blonde in the bleachers" ] Re: Happy Trails to you (Quicksilver Messenger Service version) NJC ["gen] NJC Re: Mama and Betsie say [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: silliness, etc. (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] James & Joni [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] The JMDL (a lurker's perspective) ["James L. Leonard" ] Overture ["William Waddell" ] Rebuild? Or memorialize? (NJC) ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: victor johnson!!!!!! (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Happy Trails to you (NJC) ["Lori R. Fye" ] Toronto here I come!!!!! [FMYFL@aol.com] from the onion (njc) [jan ] Re: If you had just one question ... [jan ] Re: Happy Trails to you NJC [dsk ] Re: grief and hurt(njc) ["Kakki" ] NJC - Paperback Writer [<657174974@amena.com>] Re: No where else ["Dolphie Bush" ] jaco ["William Waddell" ] ONB ["William Waddell" ] Re: grief and hurt(njc) ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: Happy Trails to you NJC [dsk ] RE: Happy Trails to you (Quicksilver Messenger Service version) [Susan Gu] Re: victor johnson!!!!!! (njc) [Susan Guzzi ] Re: victor johnson!!!!!! (njc) ["Dolphie Bush" ] Subject: Virus warning and questions NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] In the background ["William Waddell" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 10:31:28 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: song by a friend (njc) one of my best friends is a communications prof at u. mass. amherst; he sent me a song he wrote after his dad died: Train to Paradise All aboard for paradise No stops in between, just paradise Not on the map, don't bother to look Just watch your step as you go Sun shines like a wafer in the sky Streaming lights of crimson fly In the faces of those who take their seats Aboard the train today Tell me you're down Tell me you're tired Tell me there's nothing inside Tell me there's no place left to hide anymore Taking this train Nothing to lose Just think you've got to choose Between this earth and the great blue sky Take a train to paradise Can you tell me What's beyond life's horizon Across the great divide Don't need no ticket, don't need no bags Don't need no boarding pass Just come as the child that you are And leave your cares behind Tell me you're down Tell me you're tired Tell me there's nothing inside Tell me there's no place left to hide anymore Taking this train Nothing to lose Just think you've got to choose Between this earth and the great blue sky - -- Henry Geddes ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 12:31:14 -0400 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Harbourfront Tribute October Hi all, Any and all going to the Toronto tribute next month, please mail me off-list so we can plan a get together! Thanks in advance Stephen in Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 12:33:23 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: I can do this one last time NJC To have the words "vehement" and "antiCatholic" tossed at me - when I have been anti any type of people, any person? When? have tried to affirm everyone and find worth in all people. I have tried, and sometimes failed, but I have tried to post as gently towards people as I could and spoken directly on other things.. If I failed to do that, then I have sinned, but the accusation that I am anti anybody goes to the core of who I am. I don't give a damn about the fact the people may disagree with me but to attack me at my core essence as a person: when I have been anti anybody? The "if you don't agree with me, you are the enemy" talk that is going around a great deal these days is incredibly destructive. That no one jumped up and said, "hey, Vince is not anti-anyone" between the time that the post was made and the time that I read it, that says something to me about where I fit into this community. Either I am not worth speaking up for because you as a group perceive me as being anti-people, or because no one values me enough to say a word on my behalf, or because you think that I am so tough that I can laugh this stuff off. As for the last. I hurt, too, I bleed as easily as any other wounded person. And as for the others, that confirms this is not a community for me. And that some people think I am upset because of a opinion difference rather than the personal attack, well, what can I say. Have it how you see it; I know how it hit me like a rock in my stomach. As far as my not being a part of the JMDL - I will deeply miss a lot of it. What Les has accomplished is, and it is Les who I am feeling badly about, because he did not create the JMDL for people to hurt one another, but what Les has accomplished is a rare gift in the world. I have communicated privately to Les and tried to say what I need to say to that good man. You all won't miss me. A month from now I'll be a faded memory, in six months a trivia question/answer if anyone remembers me at all. Life will go on for us all, and this JMDL will do just fine without me. Obviously. Next time someone throws the word "anti" at someone in here, the next time someone goes in rhetorical overkill and plunges a dagger into the heart of another, will anyone care? I hope the next person so assaulted fares better than me, and finds someone to intercede on their behalf. for the last time: (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 18:54:31 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: Top Ten Island Discs hi id probably go for - in no particular order from number 2 onwards: 01 - shadows & light 02 - bob dylan - bob dylan 03 - mary chapin carpenter - hometown girl 04 - emmylou harris - wrecking ball 05 - michelle shocked - kindheartedwoman (Original acoustic version) 06 - daniel lanois - for the beauty of winona 07 - tom waits - tales from the underground ('cause its 5 discs long & i can get more music!!) 08 - richard thompson - action packed - the best of richard thompson 09 - beth orton - central reservation 10 - keb mo - keb mo & smuggle on disc - sophie b hawkins - timbre & i have to ask - i recently got hold of an album called "love me or leave me - the best of mary coughlan" which was on my list but got bumped when i remembered the keb mo :-) does anyone know anything about her - she is absolutely superb!!!! a warm, voice, plenty of timbre, styles of music all over the place, great arrangements, some really, really wicked lyrics (tho i dont think she writes them - she sure knows how to pick them!!) if you like mary chapin carpenter - run, dont walk (to steal a phrase from this list) to check out the "other" mary ron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 18:54:33 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: Virus warning and questions NJC hi >>garret wrote >>I have a question for any techies on the list: should i really pay attention >>to these virus warnings? do they only activate (if that's the right word) >>when i open an attachment? or can they do harm merely through receiving >>them? more & more of these warning are true - due to more & more viruses in circulation. some viruses can be activated when they are just previewed in the preview pane - others need to be activated by running the file to which they are attached.. the best way to safeguard yourself is to take the following steps: 1 ) get an antivirus program macafee, norton, f-prot - are all good, reliable programs 2 ) get an antivirus program 3 ) get an antivirus program macafee, norton, f-prot - are all good, reliable programs. macafee used to release a free, shareware version for home use - im not sure if they still do. 4 ) update your virus definition files regularly 5 ) subscribe to a reputable newsletter - i would recomend woodys office watch, or woodys windows watch http://www.woodyswatch.com/ i cant say with authority that is is the best - but it works for me!! 6 ) download microsoft security patches & update regularly - *BUT* only after your newsletter has reviewed the updates and advised - some of these are total disasters & will cripple your system!!!! go to the link above, and do some research as to how to determine which software versions, service packs, and security patches you have, & which you need to apply - im not sure how easy this is as ive never actually done it myself - the company keeps up to date on these things. 7 ) set your machine to show all file extensions. *NEVER* click on an executable attachment unless you know where it is from , and it has been scanned by your anti virus. extensions concerned would be .exe .com .bat vbs .dll pay particular attention for files with double extensions - eg - filename.txt.vbs, or filename.txt.vbs - 99.99999% sure to be a virus!! 8 ) if in doubt - delete!!!!!! then go to your "deleted items" and delete again!!!!! 9 ) if possible - back up regularly. ron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:15:40 -0400 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: No where else "My leaving will surely be an answer to some people's prayers... Good-bye all. (the Rev) Vince" I am sorry but everytime I read some post of some one having a little hissy fit and declaring they are leaving, it really makes me want to laugh my ass off. This is a hard time for everyone and everyone has a different opinion and a different way of looking at things, but just because some one may hurt your feelings or disagree with your beliefs or in the heat of the moment write things that cause you pain you can't go run away and say you will never post again, what does that prove? Nothing, except you will miss out on great posts about Joni Mitchell and her albums. Sometimes events transcend the actual point of this discussion list, and this one rightfully should, it effects everyone, but we are a diverse community with different ideas and beliefs, and sometimes passionate debates are bound to happen. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:22:06 EDT From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: No where else Amen to that! I couldn't have said it better, as one who loves the Joni news and lists that flourish here, but roll my eyes every time another sensitive soul takes some silly post personally... thanks for sharing with us.. M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:26:29 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Happy Trails to you/ grief and hurt NJC Vince wrote: > In that we have reached a point where a discussion of historical fact leads to > charges of my being vehemently antiCatholic then whatever I am doing here is not > doing any good, and the attacks by this friend and silence of others tells me > that it is time for me to go. I am making no contribution in here if *this* is > how what I wrote is interpreted. The fault must surely be mine and this new > level of pain in my heart caused by one friend's words and other friends' > silences lets me know that it is time to go. and Lieve wrote: My only point was that the grief is not exclusively American, that we are just as depressed and hurt here. ... Anyway, thanks to the many more listers who have sent me personal messages of support, at least some people found my contribution useful, widening the debate, which is all I wanted to do. Vince, Lieve, everybody- As Ashara so eloquently stated, everybody is hurting right now, everybody needs to share their grief, and everybody needs support. Over a week ago, even before the tragedy in New York/D.C., gentle requests were made for more peaceful, friendly posting and less fighting. This is even more poignant now and it is such a simple request. It seems that everytime there has been a major conflict on this list recently, politics and religion has been at the center of it. Once, again I think we should avoid getting in to these heated debates because I don't enjoy them, many other people don't want them, they turn into ugly arguments, and really detract from the peaceful feeling that we all want. Especially now, it seems that everyone is over sensitive and it seems perhaps subconsiously looking to take offense at something so they can release their frustrations and use it as an emotional outlet. Well, before you let this flood of emotions out and direct it at someone, or something they said, please take a moment, and give them the benefit of the doubt. If you think they are a "nice person" then they probably are. It is really easy to read something the wrong way and to take offense at it. But this list is here for support, friendship, and fellowship through the wonderful music of Joni Mitchell. Maybe, if something you read makes you upset, think about that for a moment before you respond and realize we are all here for each other and that everybody's feelings do matter. Vince, if you feel that you need to leave then I think that maybe you should. And I don't think you should single yourself out and make yourself a scapegoat, but at the same time, if you feel that you contributed to these heated debates are partly to blame then you are probably right and should accept that, and move on instead of being so down and taking the blame for everything. Please everybody, forget about your egos and try being a little more positive and supportive of each other. Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 12:26:29 -0500 From: cvickery@danielrealty.com Subject: Re: No where else << but [I] roll my eyes every time another sensitive soul takes some silly post personally>> what you see as a silly post might not seem so silly when they're coming after *you* with the boards and nails! just my $.02. cindy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:34:07 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Jimi (NJC) <> Tim, you were at the one and only Dorton Arena. That great sagging roof made it ideal for rodeos and such, but not too sporty for concerts. I saw America there with Burton Cummings opening. Burton was great, did mostly all old Guess Who material. America was pretty limp, they were touring behind their "Harbor" release which was forgettable to say the least. I also saw a "Battle Of The Bands" there, my date was probably a full foot taller than me! Thanks for the memories... Bob NP: XTC, "Roads Girdle The Globe" (live at Hurrah's NYC) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 12:39:16 -0500 From: "William Waddell" Subject: Mama and Betsie say Blood on the Tracks - The ultimate album Hejira - The epitome of taste Abbey Road - The best example of what is possible Meet me in the blue motel room bathroom window. Same eyes just like yours. Mud slide slip sliding away on a free, free... way. One song he played I could really feel. Old Willy sings and points a boney finger at you ... from a shanty street rain falling on my shoes, heading out for Sunday on the phone to Monday. Hey! Any other Prince fans out there? Ain't heard a diddley squat from HRP in a while. What is this about Him being a JW? Sign o' the Times? Member of the Dorothy Parker club. Horticulture. Help me I think I'm ... Willy the Chic _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 10:52:54 -0700 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: Happy Trails to you (Quicksilver Messenger Service version) NJC lately we seem to have been losing some of our best contributors. i too would hate to see you leave vince because you do seem to put balance in the discussions. you made a very good point about a "world tribunal." isn't that why we have the united nations? and why have they been so silent? don't worry about your son. he's a marine now, he can take care of himself and he will. rest easy vince, this is going to be a long one. take care gene > My leaving will surely be an answer to some people's prayers... > > Good-bye all. > > (the Rev) Vince > > Les, I will email you separately and let you know how I wish to accomplish this. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 14:01:08 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Mama and Betsie say <> Willy, you could switch these descriptions around and they'd still work! That is to say, each phrase could describe any of these classics! <> While he's no longer the critics & fans darling, his 3-CD set "Emancipation" is not to be missed. Great originals, GREAT covers, and he bounces around every genre known to man and makes up a couple along the way. I also like "Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic" a lot. And I'm not an easy sell with Prince, he's put out a lot of crap too. Bob NP: XTC, "Complicated Game" (live) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 14:14:46 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: silliness, etc. (NJC) Norma wrote: << and finally, most important of all... (Gas Warfare Act) You may flatulate in front of a woman only after you've brought her to climax. But if you trap her head under the covers for the purpose of flatulent entertainment, she's officially your girlfriend. >> LOL, in high school we used to call that a Dutch oven :~) (no offense Uncle John) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 14:17:06 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: James & Joni Firstly Bill, let me welcome you to the "never a dull moment" of the JMDL! :~) <> Among the legitimate recordings are the ones on "Blue" where James backs up Joni on some tracks. Check the record credits for more detail. He also sings back-up vocals on "Man To Man" on Joni's "Wild Things Run Fast" release. The two of them also sing backup on Carole King's "Will You Love Me Tomorrow" from Tapestry. Joni does a beautiful duet with James on "Long Ago & Far Away" on his excellent "Mud Slide Slim" release, as well as add vocals to "You've Got A Friend". As for bootlegs, there is basically one. They performed together (and separately) at the Royal Albert Hall in 1970 (the exact date is unconfirmed, but from what I can tell the recording date and the broadcast date on the BBC were both in December). As this was a radio broadcast, the quality of the recording is very nice. There are MANY different bootlegs out there of this show, some that identify it as 1972 and 1973. As far as I know, there is only one. Here is the complete songlist, including some soundcheck material: 1. Joni - That Song About The Midway 2. Joni - The Gallery 3. James - Rainy Day Man 4. James - Steamroller Blues 5. Joni - The Priest 6. Joni - Carey 7. James - Carolina In My Mind 8. Both - California 9. Both - For Free 10. Both - The Circle Game 11. Both - You Can Close Your Eyes 12. Joni - Hunter 13. Joni - River 14. Joni - My Old Man 15. Both - A Case of You 16. Joni - Carey (with extended story) If you're interested in obtaining this audio, it's available both in cassette or CD, for only the cost of postage and blank media. It's the one that Brian Gross hooked me with, and now I'm a hopeless addict slut. But no 12-step program for me, thank you veddy much! :~) Hope that answers your questions, looking forward to hearing more from you! Bob NP: Andy Partridge, "The Wheel & The Maypole" (demo) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 14:31:47 -0400 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: The JMDL (a lurker's perspective) When I first subscribed to the JMDL, I jumped in with both feet and posted a lot. It didn't take long for me to retreat into lurk mode, by choice, but I've faithfully read every JMDL Digest for about a year and a half now. Why did I retreat? The truth is that the high level of interpersonal communication that exists here on the JMDL makes me uncomfortable, at least from a participatory standpoint. I often feel that much of what is posted here would be best posted privately, one lister to another. There's so much "personal business" on this list. I'm on other lists, devoted to other artists, and there's nothing like the JMDL's touchy-feely-ness about them. I think the personality you've allowed the JMDL to develop has its pros and cons, but as a fan of Joni Mitchell's, I think it's mostly cons. I believe the "loving, caring community" you strive for sets you up for these constant petty wars. For me, it's been like having been invited to a non-stop peoples' party where I end up being Stone Cold Grace, behind her fan. Some people here have so much of their ego and self-image invested in their "JMDL image" that slights are seen where none are intended. There's a constant need by some on the list to be seen as the most eloquent, or the most sensitive, or the most knowledgeable and well-read, or the most caring, and, when there's so much, by so many, invested in that kind of thing, this circle game of war and peace on the list is bound to "reoccur" (intended Joni-related humor there). There's all this talk about how much everybody loves one another so much. Sometimes when I'm reading all these selfless, loving, caring pronouncements, I wonder what it would be like to see a "Reality TV" re-make of Hitchcock's "Lifeboat," starring the JMDLers. I don't want off-list flames (see Debra vs. Marcel). Call me what you will on the list, however. That's fair. You all seem to be nice people (with the possible exception of Paul IV :-)) and I don't have a single thing against any of you. All I'm trying to tell you is that what I had hoped to find here was a Joni Mitchell Discussion List, which at least had music as its foundation, if not Joni's music, exclusively. Mostly, though, what I've found here is a Social Club cum Fly On The Wall At The Local Psychoanalyst's Office List. I don't think a true "JMDL" is possible under these circumstances, and I don't see a way to retrench from what's been established here now. Something lost on many list members, I believe, is that there are probably hundreds of lurkers like me. It's not just a small circle that reads all these cringe-inducing personal posts. They would be wonderful, one lister to another in times of pain or joy, but, instead, they seem disingenuous to me in their having been sent for all to see. With love and best wishes (say what you will, because I do care for you knuckleheads), Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:04:26 -0400 From: slarty Subject: Club 47 I've come across some mp3's of Joni singing live from Club 47. From what I gather there is at least 12 songs since the mp3s' are numbered, maybe from some bootleg cd. I don't think they've appeared on any of the trees. Any one know more about these recordings. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 14:11:03 -0500 From: "William Waddell" Subject: Overture Thinking about when you go to "Overture". Any time you listen to ... Such a flighty intro - takes me any time I go to ... Cotton ... See that patch ... I guess it's just the ... The intro makes me think of possibilities, makes me think of guitar tunings and the possibilties there within, the hope, the summer in the young blood. I find the intro makes me think of things of ... What goes thru your head? Martha, landscapes? From Willy the Shake, you know neither a borrower, shut me up and talk to me. WX _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 12:30:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Rebuild? Or memorialize? (NJC) There's a cool photo of an idea for what might "replace" the WTC at this link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25966-2001Sep25.html Working in commercial real estate these days (yes I know I change jobs as the wind shifts), I'm all too aware of the value of office space in Manhattan. Personally, though, I'd rather see a park where the towers once stood. Lori in MD http://www.cresapartners.com, for those who are curious ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:52:51 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: victor johnson!!!!!! (njc) > We hope you have a very happy birthdsy, Victor! > > Lots of hugs, > > Magsnbei Thank you Magsnbrei and everyone else for your birthday wishes. love and sunshine, Victor in Athens Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 12:53:42 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Musical tidbits/Carole King (njc) Her new album is out now. The song she slipped into was the title track, "Love Makes The World." You can listen to the whole album on her web site - http://www.caroleking.com/index_main.html Select "New Album" and "Listen" from the menu at the top. B n.p.: Carole King - "The Reason" On 26 Sep 2001, at 23:17, hell wrote: > Walt wrote: > > > (2) I assume most of you have seen the Gap ad with Carole King and her > > daughter Louise Goffin, CK at the pinao while LG sings So Far Away, and > then > > CK slips into a song I don't know -- something about "I can't help > > believing..." -- I understand CK has a new album out, or coming out ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:05:18 -0500 From: "William Waddell" Subject: If you had just one question ... I'd love to ask Joni how she conceived "Paprika Plains". _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 16:02:07 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: No where else In a message dated 9/26/01 1:17:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, blondeinthebleachers@hotmail.com writes: > (the Rev) Vince" I am sorry but everytime I read some post of some one > having a little hissy fit and declaring they are leaving, it really makes > me want to laugh my ass off. This is a hard time for everyone and > everyone has a different opinion and a different way of looking at > things, but just because some one may hurt your feelings or disagree with > your beliefs or in the heat of the moment write things that cause you > pain you can't go run away and say you will never post again, what does > that prove? Nothing, except you will miss out on great posts about Joni > Mitchell and her albums. I think this is a most salient point. People who feel they have to leave the list because others do not agree with their POLITICAL viewpoints are merely hurting themselves. I do not wish them to go, but I also think if they are that weak then I swill not miss them. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:07:05 -0500 From: "William Waddell" Subject: Just one question Why'd you have to be so jive? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:10:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Happy Trails to you (NJC) Ashara wrote: > It saddens me to lose even ONE of our valued members, > let alone the many numbers that have left recently. > Michael, Vince, Roberto, and all others that have left, > or are considering leaving, please rethink your choice. > We need each other. Thank you for writing that, Ashara. I'm saddened by the departures, too. It's a rough time for everyone, but arguing about politics and -- worse -- religion isn't helping to heal our wounds. Please give it a rest, folks. This list can and should be a place where we can come for comfort and support. Please, those of you who have left recently, come back soon. You're already missed. Lori in MD ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 16:05:46 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Toronto here I come!!!!! It's now official. "Coyote" Rick Hobbs and I will be attending the hommage to Joni at the Harbourfront Center in Toronto on Oct. 19th. Looking forward to seeing all the jmdlers that are attending! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:03:19 -0700 From: jan Subject: from the onion (njc) >President Urges Calm, Restraint Among Nation's Ballad Singers > >WASHINGTON, DC In the wake of the recent national tragedy, President Bush >is urging Mariah Carey, Michael Jackson, and other singers to resist the >urge to record mawkish, insipid all-star tribute ballads. "To America's >recording artists, I just want to say, please, there has already been enough >suffering," Bush said. "The last thing we need right now is a soaring Barbra >Streisand-Brian McKnight duet titled 'One For All.'" Reports that the FBI >had confiscated several notebooks and audio tapes from Diane Warren's home >could not be confirmed as of press time. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:05:00 -0700 From: jan Subject: Re: If you had just one question ... At 03:05 PM 9/26/01 -0500, William Waddell wrote: >I'd love to ask Joni how she conceived "Paprika Plains". Who's Paprika Plains? - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 16:35:59 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Happy Trails to you NJC Vince Lavieri wrote: > > Debra, long time good friend, the passions of the moments are over taking us. > One may argue when I wrote "vehemently" but to say that I do not like the > Catholic Church is wrong. I think emotions are running way too strong within > us more on that in a minute, Vince, I didn't write from an emotional place. I described how your post came across to me. Listing the ways throughout history that the Catholic Church has behaved HORRIBLY (you won't find me or anyone else probably arguing about that!) and tying that into the just war theory (which some people still use as a guideline) as though that theory is set-in-stone doctrine giving the church a valid excuse for such behavior WAS an emotional response on your part. It may not have been what you intended. It is how it came across. And to be so greatly insulted by my thinking you don't like the Catholic Church?? Oh, please, most people I know are in that category, myself included, at one time or another, and on different issues all the time. I said as much in my post. Letting a discussion guided by those feelings continue didn't seem like a good idea to me, not now, when there are so many other issues to sort out. You have your feelings and your views, I have mine. Expressing them is what a discussion is all about. It's unfortunate you've chosen to take what I've written as an insult rather than a disagreement. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:42:44 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: grief and hurt(njc) Regarding this, Lieve has sent me a private email indicating new knowledge that another person made this particular statement and she offered an apology to me. Kakki >But she did say, most clearly quite a while ago (sorry if >you can't find it, I have not kept it either but I know >what I read) something like "Oh I wish people who are >not American would just shut up for a while and let us >get on with our grief". ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 21:26:43 +0100 From: <657174974@amena.com> Subject: NJC - Paperback Writer Yeah, that's a great song. When I was 12 years old my parents bought a CD player and some albums like The Best of Los Indios Tabajaras (??) and Neil Diamond Greatest Hits. Among them were the compilations Beatles 1962-66 and 1967-70. I thought "The Beatles, they did Yellow Submarine, didn't they? Oh well, let's give them a listen". I liked their early songs quite a bit but when I heard Paperback Writer I was blown away!! The a capella breaks and the rockin' guitar were like nothing I had heard before. I also remember that Strawberry Fields Forever, A Day In The Life and I Am The Walrus used to scare the hell out of me and I would skip them, until I realised that they were psicodelic masterpieces. Ayoze Bob wrote: > <<4. Paperback Writer (The Beatles). >> > > I would be hard pressed to pick even my top ten BEATLES songs, but > this one would surely make the cut. It had the distinction of > being the first song I ever "recorded", that is to say the first > one I ever transferred to another media. My sister had the "Hey > Jude" LP, and I had been given a little portable reel-to-reel > recorder. I put Paperback Writer on tape, and used to listen to it > every night with one of those little white earplugs...remember > those? After awhile it got so gunked up with earwax that it was > too gross for EVEN me. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:06:45 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: No where else right on blonde. Mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: "blonde in the bleachers" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 12:15 PM Subject: No where else > "My leaving will surely be an answer to some people's prayers... > > Good-bye all. > > (the Rev) Vince" I am sorry but everytime I read some post of some one > having a little hissy fit and declaring they are leaving, it really makes > me want to laugh my ass off. This is a hard time for everyone and > everyone has a different opinion and a different way of looking at > things, but just because some one may hurt your feelings or disagree with > your beliefs or in the heat of the moment write things that cause you > pain you can't go run away and say you will never post again, what does > that prove? Nothing, except you will miss out on great posts about Joni > Mitchell and her albums. Sometimes events transcend the actual point of > this discussion list, and this one rightfully should, it effects > everyone, but we are a diverse community with different ideas and > beliefs, and sometimes passionate debates are bound to happen. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:40:46 -0500 From: "William Waddell" Subject: jaco Les wrote; Is this really how he died? Wx _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:42:11 -0500 From: "William Waddell" Subject: ONB I wish I felt nothing _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:39:31 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: grief and hurt(njc) 'you gotta shake your fist at lightning now, you gotta roll like forest fire" "not til you burn up every passion" Hey, what is the matter with passion? When I write here I do so with passion. I believe that you all do to. That is why (I) came here. Sometimes I read things that I do not like. Sometimes I write things that others don't like. If I do not express myself, then I am cheating myself. I am not expressing my passion. I cannot keep it inside and I will not. I don't want anyone here to suppress their feelings, how they think, and what they think. It is important to me. If you disagree with me or think that I am full of shit, say so. Tell me to fuck off. I can take it. I may get angry, or hurt, but I will never regret coming here and will never regret that you had the right to express your opinion to me. To hold these thoughts and feelings in is not natural and I, for one, am not interested in sitting around being gooey and mushy all of the time. That doesn't help me to grow, to expand, and to become a better person. Mike from Barcelona upsets me just about every time he gets on his computer. Do I hate him for it? Do I wish he would shut up and go away forever? Do I even dislike him? NO! NO! NO! I respect him for saying what HE thinks. Even if I never agree with a word that he writes I respect him for doing so. If I had the choice of sitting next to someone who agreed with every single thing that I said or discussing things with Mike, I would choose Mike. Why? Because he makes me better. He makes me stronger. Some part of him, perhaps the best of him, seeps into who I am, what I am, and what I want to be. As far as I am concerned this is like a family, like no other, and within it there are going to be disagreements. That makes my love for you all grow stronger. I read a post earlier from some guy who said on other lists there is not this bickering (paraphrase). I don't consider it bickering. I consider it an exchange of ideas. So what is someone loses their temper. Does that mean they hate me? I don't think so and what if they do, will I die from it? No, it makes me better and stronger and maybe, just maybe, if I was wrong then next time I will react in a more positive manner. I want real life here and that is what I have seen. I find you all lovely. Lieve, please don't shut-up! Express it. Vince, you are probably already gone but if you are not, then I wish you would reconsider for I find your posts interesting even if I have not agreed with them, and I wasn't even into the Catholic debate for I know little about the Catholic church. Take heed from Joni herself "show em you won't expire" "you gotta spread your light like blazes all across the sky" "you gotta try" Have not known you long enough to call you friend but when I do I will always defend your honor. I am the truest of blue. I think you are marvelous people. Best wishes, Mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bree Mcdonough" To: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 11:07 AM Subject: RE: grief and hurt(njc) > >>in what I thought was a reasonably courteous manner (until I was asked so > >courteously the shut the feck up...). I repeat, I did not jump to quick > >conclusions, I did not judge anyone. Lieve. > > When I joined this list I thought it would be full of grown-ups. Anyone > into Joni's music must be mature and open-minded? I don't know now? I > always cringe when I hear the words shut-up.......I guess because growing up > my mother would not allow us to say SHUT-up to siblings or anyone for that > matter. > > Sorry, Lieve, I thought this list was supposed to be free-flowing, you know, > give your opinion and if I so choose, I'll give mine. > > I'll SHUT-UP now with this in mind, Joni would NOT like us trying to gag > each other when we don't like something they said.... that is not what she > is about. (Lieve, hope to see you at Jonifest next year..hang on,...it will > be a bumpy ride! (levity) > > Bree > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 16:50:56 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Happy Trails to you NJC M.Russell@iaea.org wrote: > > Debra and Vince, you both contribute so much to JMDL. Please let's try to > stay engaged and have peaceful discussions. I think our discussions ARE peaceful. Not easy, not comfortable, but not warlike either. No one here has said everyone must think or feel a certain way, or been deliberately insulting or hurtful to people who don't completely agree. That's when the wars start. That's not been the case here. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:48:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: RE: Happy Trails to you (Quicksilver Messenger Service version) Rev. Vince wrote: I note no one else has jumped in to say a word for me. I now get to go to work with a new and painful burden in my soul. In fact I am now late for work because the pain of this has caught me in a way that I did not expect. In that we have reached a point where a discussion of historical fact leads to charges of my being vehemently anti-Catholic then whatever I am doing here is not doing any good, and the attacks by this friend and silence of others tells me that it is time for me to go. I am making no contribution in here if *this* is how what I wrote is interpreted. Speaking to Vince first: Because we do have a friendly acquaintance here and to some degree off list, I am hurt by this reference and I am also sorry for you. My silence is due to my atheism and my perspective on the Catholic church, which I have mentioned before is not held in the highest regards by me personally. I have no desire to get into it with people over this issue. Vince, I choose not to get in the battle cause you are saying pretty much what I think of the Catholic church or what I know to be true about it. Please do what you must perhaps take abreak, but please do not leave. FOR ALL: I find many of these overly factual references by several folks, on any subject and from either side of the aisle or extreme to be getting somewhat self indulgent. It's becoming who knows the most - who's the smartest - who's got the most facts. Well the sheer length of some of these posts is somewhat cumbersome. I often rely on my opinion, this (an opinion)is a thing that has some personal experience or perspective thrown into the hopper of facts and VOILA! -an opinion is born. Personally I love a good friendly argument. But these things seem to drag on and on and on. It's becoming a tit for a tat. As I mentioned earlier you and I and others who have spoken up here agree quite a bit. Yes in fact I did speak up for Kakki in earlier posts, but my GOD (did I just say god?), she's up there with Joan of Arc after the beating she's been taking here. The fact is, as I now echo redundancy, Kakki and I are more often on the opposite side rather than the same. But that's not a bad thing, cause she has always handled herself with respect & regard for the opposing opinion. Some folks here have sounded pretty condescending at times. See for me, the good part or the common thread is more important than winning every fecking point. I think for the most part here most people are feeling the same - frustrated, confused, angry, depressed, sad and scared. Where is our compassion? Where is our levity? Where do the heavy handed posters expect this to go or to end? We are caught way up in semantics and egos in some cases here, get to your points. I can't help but understand some people leaving. I wish you all wouldn't - this too shall pass! I do not usually write such long posts. I do not feel I am as articulate as some here and I also would rather speak less, but say more, than enjoy the very sound of my own voice or keyboard, as it may be. I learn as much here from people I don't agree with as I do from those that I do. People ... instead of pointing fingers and waving them in each others faces ... Let's get ourselves back to the garden, we are way over due Peace Much Love & Plenty of Tears on this post Susan Guzzi ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:53:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: victor johnson!!!!!! (njc) Happy Birthday to one of the sweetest souls I have ever met - Victor Johnson! Forever I will see you & hear you clearly singing as I peel shrimp! Peace Susan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:56:58 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: victor johnson!!!!!! (njc) '"fresh salmon frying and the tide rolling in" Those are the words that came from the songbird as I read you post susan. I long to be there. thank you. mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Guzzi" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 3:53 PM Subject: Re: victor johnson!!!!!! (njc) > Happy Birthday to one of the sweetest souls I have > ever met - Victor Johnson! Forever I will see you & > hear you clearly singing as I peel shrimp! > > Peace > > Susan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 17:00:10 EDT From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: The JMDL (a lurker's perspective) As another "lurker" out there, I must say, this is my sentiment, times two... I am so glad there is a Joni list, with joni news, musings, and shared love of her music (lets' face it, most out there just dont' get her, and it's a joy to connect with people who do), but the drama, oh man, I've got enough of that surviving in NYC! I've said my peace, now I'm gonna turn on my current Joni passion, "Marici" from the very beginning..love M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:00:23 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: jaco At 02:40 PM 9/26/2001, you wrote: >today from injuries suffered in a beating at a bar in Florida.> >Is this really how he died? According the biography written on him, Jaco, in a mentally challenged state, tried a number of times to jump onstage and play with a local band in the bar. Neither the band or the bouncer realized or knew who he was. The bouncer hauled him out into the back alley and beat him senseless. Jaco slipped into a coma for a few days and never recovered. I may not have all the facts correct as it's been years since I've read the account. Les ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:47:46 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Virus warning and questions NJC Virus protection is key. I have Norton but there are others out there too. Usually it is opening an attachment that gives the virus but I think the one the Lori mentioned is one you can get by just opening the message or even previewing it. GET VIRUS PROTECTION!!!! ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:47:51 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: grandchildren NJC Rev Vince AKA Cool Dude wrote: "I like knowing that when I'm dead they will say, hey, remember how papa crawled through those tubes with us and how we laughed when everyone gave us strange looks? You can't buy those memories of yourself for them to have!" Oh yes. At my Mom's memorial a few years ago, my neice Jaime (a bright, talented, beautiful, then 20 year old) got up & spoke elequently about how one of her fondest memories was when my Mom/her Grandma got in some little kiddie car thing & they rode around together joyfully at one of Jaime's birthday parties. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 16:12:04 -0500 From: "William Waddell" Subject: In the background I'm having an afternoon of self indulgence to self ... just before I leave the beautiful US of A. Listening to a ton of ... I love Joni's back harmonies. From Woodstock To Off Night Back Street She does such a great back up for herself so oft. Favourite back up? Listen, strains of ... the recline buttons down. Is anyone familiar with JT's Gaia? Now playing. I'm so emotional. The rosy dawn. Man it's beau! Stop us now. Gaia. Take us back to long ago and far away. Anyhoo, Joni in the background harmonies. Her best back ups. Ain't there just tons. Wx _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #443 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?