From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #438 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, September 25 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 438 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: September 25 [les@jmdl.com] Today in Joni History: September 25 [les@jmdl.com] My Top 10 Desert Island Discs- Tougher Version ["Leslie Ross" ] JIMI njc ["Kate Bennett" ] my father's passing (njc) ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Red Cross ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: my father's passing (njc) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: VLJC - First post and 10 desert island discs [Janet Hess ] Re: VLJC - First post and 10 desert island discs ["Leslie Ross" ] RE: Questions NJC ["Deb Messling" ] Re: Irony NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] my father's passing (njc) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: 10 desert island discs ... [john van tiel ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #298 [StDoherty@aol.com] RE: Questions NJC ["Deb Messling" ] old music NJC [Yael Harlap ] Re: 10 desert island discs (NJC) [] Re: Shane's father, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] desert island follow up, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] CD Baby question (NJC) [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: Test your memories NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: first 45s, lps...(njc) [Jerry Notaro ] NJC Re: VLJC - First post and 10 desert island discs [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] 1995 Billboard Century Awards [Claire Adamson ] Re: 10 desert island discs (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: 1995 Billboard Century Awards [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] coming out of lurkdom again (mainly njc) [ReckersL@ebrd.com] Re: eva cassidy (was 10 desert island discs ...) [cvickery@danielrealty.c] Re: First records, concerts and parent's music njc ["Lori R. Fye" ] RE: My father's passing (NJC) ["Pitassi, Mary" ] Re: coming out of lurkdom again (mainly njc) ["Kakki" ] Van Tiels Geburtstag [Mauski4648@aol.com] Re: 10 desert island discs (NJC) ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: Van Tiels Geburtstag (NJC) [john van tiel ] Oops (NJC) [john van tiel ] Re: Test your memories NJC ["Lori R. Fye" ] Song sets NJC [Steve Polifka ] Re: Shelby Lynne and (?) Marti Jones (njc) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Catholic content (NJC--very long) ["Pitassi, Mary" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 03:00:14 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: September 25 On September 25 this article was published: 1998: "Taming the Tiger" - London Times (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/980925lt.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 633 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 03:00:14 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: September 25 On September 25 in Joni Mitchell History: 1987: Jaco Pastorious, the amazing bassist who played on many Joni albums, died today from injuries suffered in a beating at a bar in Florida. - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 07:24:54 +0000 From: "Leslie Ross" Subject: My Top 10 Desert Island Discs- Tougher Version I really love this idea....but it should be songs and not albums...cruel huh?! And then you should declare if you had to lose all but one, which one. Bob and Marcia - Young, Gifted and Black Norman Greenbaum - Spirit in the Sky Bonnie Rait - I can't make you love me Joni Mitchell - Hejira Tom Waits - Kentucky Avenue Kate Bush - This Woman's Work Jimmy Cliff - Many Rivers to Cross Bob Marley - Redemption Song Pheobe Snow - Every Night Abba - My Love My Life ...and the one to retain......impossible.. ....Well, Hejira I suppose but only cos you're all watchin'....:-) Les (London) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 09:24:11 +0100 From: <657174974@amena.com> Subject: VLJC - First post and 10 desert island discs Hello all. My name is Ayoze, I'm a new Joni fan from Spain. And this, as you can see, is my first post. I've been on the list for a week and just wanted to add my own "top ten essential recordings" (whoa, that sounded pretentious). Laurent Olszer wrote: "I'd like to know what music JMDLers would take to a desert island, where you'd be stuck for the rest of your life? Please: no more than 1 album per artist. Limit: 10" So here we go: Pet Sounds (The Beach Boys) Armed Forces (Elvis Costello and The Attractions) Highway 61 (Bob Dylan) Lark's Tongues In Aspic (King Crimson) Setting Sons (The Jam) Court And Spark (Joni Mitchell) Arthur or the Decline and Fall of the English Empire (The Kinks) Remain in Light (Talking Heads) Skylarking (XTC) We're Only In It For The Money (Frank Zappa and the MOI) I enjoy a lot reading the list and hope to participate more in the future, even if my English isn't very good. After all, SIQUOMB. Ayoze ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 01:19:08 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: JIMI njc I have seen him twice. I don't remember him speaking, just playing. Incredibly. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 01:19:09 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: my father's passing (njc) oh shane, this is so sad & i am so sorry to hear this ... but wonderful you could be with him if it had to be so ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 01:26:50 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Red Cross wow, you prevailed! congratulations! >>lot of protest emails went to our HR department and my Company quietly asked us for receipts, then sent a check to the Red Cross, matching ours. I was proud of all involved.<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 05:46:49 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: my father's passing (njc) shane, all my love and good vibes. be well, wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de shane mattison Enviado el: Martes, 25 de Septiembre de 2001 03:26 a.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: my father's passing (njc) i just wanted to tell all my joni friends that my father just passed away today due to heart failure. I gave him about 5 minutes of his last breaths doing CPR. shane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 04:43:01 -0400 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: VLJC - First post and 10 desert island discs Welcome, Ayoze. We've been waiting for you to join us. :) And that's a first-rate list. Hope to read more and more from you. Cheerz, Janet and Deanna Ivy the Wonderkitty, both of whom really like "Court and Spark" - -------------- You've got to shake your fists at lightning now You've got to roar like forest fire You've got to spread your light like blazes All across the sky Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 10:50:30 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: 10 desert island discs (NJC) Laurent Olszer wrote: > "I'd like to know what music JMDLers would > take to a desert island, where you'd be stuck > for the rest of your life? Please: no more > than 1 album per artist. Limit: 10" 1. Glenn Gould - J.S. Bach's Little Preludes and Fugues 2. Bruce Hornsby - Here Come The Noise Makers 3. Jonatha Brooke - LIVE 4. Werner Haas - Claude Debussy Klaviermusik 5. Ramona Kasheer - Lavant Tunes 6. Patty Griffin - Flaming Red 7. Bob Dylan - Blonde On Blonde 8. The Beatles - White Album 9. Michael Hedges - Live On The Double Planet 10. Joni Mitchell - Court and Spark Marian Vienna NP: Passepied - Claude Debussy (played by Werner Haas) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 05:54:49 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: lydia van dam ( NJC) i love this cd!!!!! the marlene dietrich spoof is superb! thank you land of the dykes and dams. wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Reuben3rd@aol.com Enviado el: Lunes, 24 de Septiembre de 2001 10:25 a.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Nuvo Magazine (now NJC) >>Jimmy NP: Lydia Von Damme "Everybody's fucking but me"<< Yikes! I'll have to hear this. I know the feeling. ;) Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 10:20:45 +0000 From: "Leslie Ross" Subject: Re: VLJC - First post and 10 desert island discs Welcome to the List Ayoze. I hope your stay with us will be a long and enjoyable one. Les (London) > >Hello all. > >My name is Ayoze, I'm a new Joni fan from Spain. And this, as you can >see, is my first post. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 06:36:44 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Factual question on terrorism (NJC) Does anyone have statistics readily at hand on numbers killed in terrorist attacks over the years? What was the worst single act of terrorism in the past century? - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling =^..^= - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 06:36:46 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: Questions NJC > 1. We hear that our nation must exercise military action against the > Taliban because of the evil nature of the Taliban. If this is so, why > was there no talk of war against the Taliban on September 10th or any > day prior? Because we were blind? We probably should have gone to war earlier, just as we should have opened our eyes to Hitler earlier than we did. > 2. If we take military action against the Taliban because we think it > is an evil, oppressive, regime, is this nation then not taking an action > that says that we are the judge of all other nations? Why then couldn't > another nation go to war against us because they think that our > government is evil and oppressive? I'm not at all uncomfortable judging the Taliban as an evil, oppresive regime. World opinion is overwhelmingly on our side on this one. Yes, another nation COULD go to war against us because they think our government is evil. Looks like one already has, on September 11. > 3. Should we take military action against the Taliban because of our > opinion of its government and its values, then innocent people will be > killed. That is the reality of war. How then does that differ from > someone killing innocent people in our country because of their opinion > of our government and its values? Because their "values" in this case are evil and profoundly dangerous. > 4. A reason cited often about the evil of the Taliban is their > treatment of women. I agree that their treatment is horrible - > according to our understandings. Do we possess universal truth and > stand ready to wage war against those whose values differ from ours? Are you suggesting that the Taliban's treatment of women stems from Islamic values and that we Westerners should not judge them for it? That would be seriously disrespectful to Islam. I believe that the Taliban's "values" are unique to itself, and deserve harsh judgment. If it makes anyone feel better, it's not "just women" they are brutalizing but all political opponents. Nazi "values" included the precept that Jews were vermin to be exterminated. I am comfortable proclaiming a "universal truth" that Naziism is evil. Same with the Taliban. Evil, or mad, as some other poster said. > 5. If we deplore the treatment of women under the Taliban, how will war > with Afghanistan be good for the women of Afghanistan? Women and > children will be killed in our taking military action against the > Taliban. Will their deaths improve their lives? Quite possibly!!! Death is not the worst that can happen to a person. I guess I'm thinking of the European Jews again. Would they have been willing to die as "collateral damage" in Allied attacks, if those attacks helped defeat Hitler and thus save future generations of Jews? I've never had that discussion with any of my older Jewish relatives, but I can imagine them being willing to die. I can't imagine any of them being a pacifist! The arguments that the criminal justice model should prevail over the military model are tempting, but I don't think realistic. We need both strategies. Rules of evidence do not apply to a military attack, but all those clamoring for proof don't seem willing to lend any credence at all to our national leaders who tell us they are preparing to lay out the proof, at the UN. Are you willing to accuse them of being liars, before you hear the evidence they say they have accumulated? Doesn't that mean you are prejudging them? > 8. We strike at Afghanistan because we victims of terrorism. In large > parts of the world, we will be seen as the evil actor and aggressor for > the overkill of our response, and for terror or war that we will inflict > as a natural consequence of war. Thus there will be those who will seek > vengeance on us through acts of terrorism against us. This is the ONLY argument I find compelling in this debate. I'm in favor of whatever action protects us, and I do worry that war will not do so. But I'm not sure what will. But leaving the terror network that committed this atrocity intact would be the most dangerous option of all, so I come out on the side of going after that network, by any means necessary. - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling =^..^= - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:05:26 +0200 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re: Irony NJC Mike wrote >>Bearing in mind Sting's lines 'nothing comes from violence, and nothing ever could' it seems that we are losing our capacity to see irony even when it slaps us in the face. Isn't it ironic, doncha think?<< Fred replied >I'll admit it ... I fail to see irony in Sting's lyric. What is it? Sorry for the ambiguity Fred. The irony I referred to was not in Sting's lyrics themselves, but in the situation in which they were sung. Judging by the comments in recent posts about this concert it seems that many people were very moved by the artists in this concert and the songs that they sang. Given the massive number of people who saw these musicians I assume that some (many?) of them would be in favour of some kind of military action against bin Laden. I imagine (no pun intended) therefore that some of the people who were moved by the (anti-violence) words and music of Sting, Lennon, Neil Young and others would be in that 'pro-strike' group, thus simultaneously singing 'nothing comes from violence, and nothing ever could' and in favour of what could turn out to be violence on a massive scale. Therein lies the irony as I see it. mike in bcn. NP - Red Dirt Girl, Emmylou Harris. (thanx Mark) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 07:26:13 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: my father's passing (njc) Shane wrote: Shane, my thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family. Let us know if there's anything we can do. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 07:30:43 -0400 From: john van tiel Subject: Re: 10 desert island discs ... ... with explanation and -regrettably- too little Joni content (due to rules: one disk per artist) Thanks everyone on-list and off-list for all the birthday wishes. What can I say ... OK, my desert island top 10. 1. Joni Mitchell - Hejira The undisputed Number One is my collection. I postponed buying a CD player in the late eighties until this album was released on CD. It's been the soundtrack of my life. This is probably the only place on the planet where I do not have to explain why. 2. John Martyn - Solid Air This one I share with Master Les and Jody "Wonder Eyes" Johnson. Released almost simultaneously with Hejira, just as timeless and eternal, just as deep, disturbing and soothing at the same time. Like all really good albums, it has to grow on you. Also it is shamefully unknown in the US. DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS! 3. Tom Waits - Blue Valentines Also from the same period. Long, long ago, when I was a teacher of English, my students asked me what music I reallyreallyreally liked. I took along this album, printed (stencilled, it's that long ago!) some of the lyrics and caused a total shock among kids who were into the Police and Olivia Newton-John. I still play the album regularly and continue to think: sooo good. 4. Pat Metheny - Secret Story Considered one of his lesser albums by many PM fans. For me it is the ultimate trip in the bath: hot water, nice scented bath soap, Secret Story in the CD walkman, headphones, volume to loud and .... a real source for extra bubbles in the bath. 5. Barbara - her works from 1963-1966 The French chansonniere who, to me, is at Joni level. Music-wise, text-wise. Especially in this period she shines with pearls, one masterpiece after another (Pierre, Nantes, Ce Matin-l`, Quand Ceux Qui Vont, etc.). Even if you don't understand French, you will immediately recognize the depth. 6. Eva Cassidy - Songbird I review albums for a Dutch music magazine. This was sent to me way before she was as popular as she was now. I remember doing what I always did. I put the album in the tray, pushed the Play button and walked back to my chair to listen. I stopped in mid-stride. What the hell was this? Eva singing Fields of Gold. I went back, totally stunned, pushed Stop, walked to my chair, took the remote and pushed Play again ... Since then I must have given at least 30 copies as presents to people. 7. Crosby Stills Nash - first album Always liked it better than Dij` Vu. I've always remained very partial to the CSNY stuff - Neil's early work, CPR is great, the boxed set has many gems. This is my number 7 on the even days of the month. On the odd days it will be the Beatles' White Album. Wheras on Mondays I would put in Bruce Springsteen's Ghost of Tom Joad. And after 19.00 hrs it would be Mathilde Santing's To Others To One. 8. His Royal Bobness - Highway 61 Revisited Do you, Mr. Jones? He was my highschool hero. He remained my hero in my student days. I once saw him live and thought that he was full of shit. ("Do you, Mr. van Tiel?") I never visited this particular highway. Is it worth a revisit? 9. Kelly Joe Phelps - Sky like a broken clock I know, it's ridiculous to put an album on a desert island disk list that's hardly been out for more than 2 months, but ever since I received the pre-release in June for review, it has hardly been out of my CD player. It had the same effect on me as John Martyn's and Tom Waits' early work - when I heard that, I just knew that I would be playing it for the rest of my life. Brilliant playing, fantastic lyrics, perfect production. 10. Boubacar Traori - Mariama West African (Mali) griotte singer. I have no idea what he is singing about (except when he sings in French) but his guitar is spell-bindingly hypnotic and so is his voice. I keep playing this album and it always soothes me. My first 45: The Animals - House of the Rising Sun My first album: The Beatles Greatest Hits (a Dutch compilation from 1966) My first classical album: JS Bach - Brandenburger Concertos My first concert ... now here's a unique one: I was 13 (in 1967) and went to a concert of The Fortunes, a British band that was very popular in Holland in 1965-1967. I was only allowed by my parents because it was up the road in a big barn-turned-theatre and because it was on Sunday afternoon. The support act was a bunch of weirdos I had never heard of before. All kinds of slide projections with coloured water to strange psychodelic sounds, shouting on the stage (unlike The Fortunes who sang very much in tune - on their records, that is). And these freaks were about to release their first record in the Netherlands, a song called Arnold Layne. I was 13, I was watching the legendary Pink Floyd with Syd Barrett (support act to The Fortunes), and I had no clue! But then, I also saw Van Morrison with the Dutch band Cuby & The Blizzards and I loved every second that he shut up - Van, whose Astral Weeks and Beautiful Vision painfully did not make it to the top 10 (certainly top 20 material). Oops, this got a bit out of hand. Oh well, for a lurker ... John (still in the US, but about to fly to Holland again) NP Gillian Welch, The Revelator (Great Album - Would certainly make it to the residential island top 10) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 07:31:24 EDT From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #298 Just ten .... dagnabit 1.Billie Holliday (anything) 2. Aretha - Spiriti in the Dark 3. Joni - For the Roses 4. Steve Earle - The Mountain 5. Etta James - At Last 1960 6. Altan - Harvest Song 7. Beethoven's 3rd 8. Teddy Wilson and Lester Young 9. The Blind Boys of Albabama - Spirit of the Century 10. Faron Young - Greatest Hits ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 07:35:50 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: Questions NJC I forgot to make one point, and possibly it's the most important point. The reason we're contemplating military action is not that we disapprove of the Taliban regime - although that might be reason enough. The reason is that we are trying to craft the most effective defense we can against a very serious threat against our own civilians. Self defense is moral. I accept the consensus that the Taliban is giving aid to our attackers. If Afghan civilians are killed in our effort to defend ourselves, it will be because the Taliban is holding them hostage. That's a tragedy, but we can't let the prospect of that tragedy stop us from protecting millions of civilians in this country. - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling =^..^= - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 07:36:15 -0400 From: Yael Harlap Subject: old music NJC Reuben wrote: >Too young for 8-tracks, but my first cassette was either Michael Jackson's >Thriller, or Cyndi Lauper's She's So Unusual. Whoa... > >Reuben Me too! Or maybe David Bowie's Let's Dance. We did have some Sesame St 8-tracks for the car when I was little. And I did have some LPs when I was a child - I don't know which came first because my parents bought them for me, but notably among them were the soundtrack to Grease, Annie, and the marvelous "Disco For Kids". LOL - -Yael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:56:36 +0100 From: Subject: Re: 10 desert island discs (NJC) Great list Jimmy lol ! Do you not own a copy of Joni Mitchell - Songs To A Seagull ? Philip > I actually own these discs too! > > The Fixx "Reach the Beach" > Basia "Time and Tides" > Robert Palmer "Riptide" > Dan Hartman "Keep the Fire Burnin" > Grace Jones "Island Life" > Fine Young Canibals "The Raw and the Cooked" > Elton John "Madman Across the Water" > Sting "Nothing Like the Sun" > Melissa Manchester "Help is on the Way" > Weather Girls "It's Raining Men" > > > Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:54:27 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Re: Shane's father, NJC > Shane wrote: > > > i just wanted to tell all my joni friends that my father just passed away > > today due to heart failure. I gave him about 5 minutes of his last breaths > > doing CPR. > I'll tell you what our rabbi said when this happened to my father, and which helped me a lot: He said that your father now lives through you. It's now up to you to show by your deeds that you learned from his teachings and by doing so you'll keep him alive. Love Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 14:02:08 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: desert island follow up, NJC Thanks for all the inspiration, I'll make a point of checking out some of the artists I've never heard. To name a few: Oleta Adams, Shaggs, Harry Partch, Kitchens of Distinction, David Hepling, Jennifer Warnes, Fixx, Basia, Dan Hartman, Wheather Girls, Shona Laing.. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 14:13:21 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: CD Baby question (NJC) I would be interested to hear from any artists here who are marketing their CDs thru CD Baby if they are happy with that arrangement. It seems like quite a good arrangement for independent artists. Please reply to me privately. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 08:17:41 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Test your memories NJC Have you all beat. I had a 4 track. On the continual loop: The Letter, by the Boxtops. Jerry jan wrote: > At 05:42 PM 9/24/01 -0400, Vince Lavieri wrote: > >How about your first cassette tape and your first 8-track? > > > >cassette tape: Quicksilver Messenger Service, Happy Trails > >8 track: Tapestry (boot), Surf's Up (bought) > > > >(the Rev) Vince > > I don't remember, but there was someone in high school whose sibling had an > 8 track of- get this- Lou Reed's 'Metal Machine Music'. > -jan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 08:21:37 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: first 45s, lps...(njc) BigWaltinSF@aol.com wrote: > > First CD: WTRF, although I already had it on LP, of course. Mine was Blind Faith. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 08:58:26 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: VLJC - First post and 10 desert island discs What a great list, Ayoze! Thanks for sending it along, and for de-lurking! Welcome to the JMDL. These lists each make me cringe when I see what I've left behind! :~) Looking forward to hearing more from you... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 09:24:10 -0400 From: Claire Adamson Subject: 1995 Billboard Century Awards Hello! I am DESPERATE for a copy of the 1995 Billboard Century Awards on tape. You know, the one where Peter Gabriel does this fantastic introduction of Joni? If anyone can help me out, please send me an email at claire@harbourfront.on.ca. thank you thank you thank you! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 09:26:33 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: 10 desert island discs (NJC) In a message dated 9/25/01 7:57:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, philipf@tinet.ie writes: << Great list Jimmy lol ! Do you not own a copy of Joni Mitchell - Songs To A Seagull ? >> I knew there was something I was forgetting Philip!!! I also had : Fiona Apple "Tidal" Barbara Streisand "Higher Ground" Michael Franks "Blue Pacific" Swingout Sisters "It's Better to Travel" Grand Funk Railroad "Survival" but I should not have left off STAS!!! oops :~) Jimmy np :from Durwood Douche "Mister Bumpy" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 09:45:25 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: 1995 Billboard Century Awards <> Desperado, why don't you come to your senses?! ;~) Claire, that clip IS available as a part of one of the JMDL video trees. If nobody else can help you out, I can. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 15:11:03 +0100 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: coming out of lurkdom again (mainly njc) Having read the recent debates I've bitten my tongue for so long, but in the end I feel I really need to speak up. Kakki, I have no doubt you are a nice decent person (I really mean that) but your comments at times make my head spin! I don't need to go into the foreign policy issues again, other people have already done that very well (Mike, Vince, Brenda, etc) so I just want to give you my own perspective from where I am, i.e. London UK. I find it extremely upsetting that you claim all-American exclusivity to feelings of grief and hurt over the recent atrocities. Unless you lost someone in your own family or are living in Manhattan, I don't think you can tell me that you have more right to feel raw, hurt, in mourning, than someone like me. Well let me tell you, I have been deeply depressed since "the events", it feels like my world has been attacked just as much as yours. I have very close friends all over the States, I've spent a lot of time there, it really does not matter to me what nationality I have, I would not wave any flag or ask for any country to be more "blessed" than another, to me that is just senseless. But most of all, I want you to realise how vulnerable we feel here. I work in the financial centre of London. Even our chief of police has admitted that London would be the next main target after the recent attacks on US soil. I would probably feel safer in LA, certainly much safer in small town America at the moment than in London! I have an Italian colleague whose mother was crying on the phone because she is so worried about her daughter being in London. And then, in less than 3 weeks from now I am supposed to fly to Colorado to visit a friend for 2 weeks. I just read this morning that Colin Powell won't let his daughter get on a commercial plane at the moment, so she had to cancel her theatre commitment in London. Wow, that's reassured me! I mean, just how much more personally involved and threatened do I have to feel before I qualify to be in the exclusive club of those that you think can validly discuss this issue? For years here we've had to put up with the IRA threat (financed mainly by Noraid from NY, unfortunately) and twice I was in an office building so close to an IRA bomb that windows were blown out and people were severely hurt. I hold my breath when I walk past an unmarked van in the centre of London, I try to stop my children from coming up to central London, and this has been going on for years, you don't know how depressing this is! And now this. Please realise London is just as likely to get bombed or sprayed with lethal chemicals as the US. We are all involved, and in any case, just like the people in small town America who are not really at risk but feel involved as part of the "bigger family", in the same way do we in other western countries, as we are part of the same culture. And this does not mean we can't be critical. I remember, around 20 years ago when I had just arrived in England from Belgium and was working, my first real job, in an office of all-Brits, it was the end of the Falklands war with Argentina and the British troups were on a triumph parade outside in the street. A girl in the office rushed out and then came back all excited, saying proudly "I went up to the soldiers and kissed them". I was naove and idealistic enough to think we could speak our mind so I said that I thought it had been a unnecessary war, defending a piece of land way out where we (UK) had no business, that certainly it was not worth all the lives (after the UK had sunk an Argentine submarine with around 1000 young conscripts lost) and that it was mainly done to win Margaret Thatcher the national vote. This girl who had kissed the soldiers turned on me and said that I should not speak like that, that I would surely speak differently if it had been Belgium rather than the UK being involved. This shocked me so much that I still remember it 20 years on. It had not occurred to me to see the situation through nationalistic glasses, that someone like that girl, same age as me, would oppose free individual thought and expression of opinion. Of course I would have said the same if it had been Belgium's war! I just cannot tell you how shocked and hurt I was by this reaction, but it taught me a lot! And although I know, Kakki, that you are a much kinder and intelligent person than that girl, some of your reactions gave me the same shudder and so I felt I had to say this. That's the main thing I really want to say now, the rest has been said very well already. Or maybe just quickly this: about catholicism and pacifism. I was raised a catholic too, before I grew up and realised I could not believe what they or any other religion told me (sorry Vince, I think you are an absolutely wonderful person but I only believe in our own human duty to behave morally). So I am speaking from within, and there are a lot of catholic writers and thinkers and ordinary people (including my uncle who is a priest and an absolute treasure) who I have a lot of respect for. But I need to say, Kakki: the catholic church has only recently developed a "pacifist" stream, comparable to that of any proper, moderate muslim thinking. It's certainly nothing "typically catholic". And see how many catholic priests in Northern Ireland are still supporting terrorists - giving them proper military burials when they die "for the cause", a cause that is also naively sponsored by Noraid from New York. Ah well, it's so difficult to be brief about things like that, I must stop. Just to say again how much I appreciate pieces written recently by Kate Bennett, Debra, Mike, Vince, Brenda, Marian, Yael, Evian, Michael, Fred, Sherelle and doubtless some others I don't recall right now. Ashara, I am in utter admiration for what you are doing. I would love to make it for the Jonifest next year but am not in a position where I can commit myself at this point. I just hope very much that you will get enough deposits together and that I can make it. If you are getting close to losing the booking and you need a few more names to commit themselves, please let me know and I will see what my situation is by then. Lots of love to you all, Lieve. ********************************************************************** EBRD SECURITY NOTICE This message has been Virus scanned ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 09:23:53 -0500 From: cvickery@danielrealty.com Subject: Re: eva cassidy (was 10 desert island discs ...) the birthday boy, john van tiel, wrote: <<6. Eva Cassidy - Songbird I review albums for a Dutch music magazine. This was sent to me way before she was as popular as she was now. I remember doing what I always did. I put the album in the tray, pushed the Play button and walked back to my chair to listen. I stopped in mid-stride. What the hell was this? Eva singing Fields of Gold. I went back, totally stunned, pushed Stop, walked to my chair, took the remote and pushed Play again ... Since then I must have given at least 30 copies as presents to people.>> and again, i scream in anguish. i have purchased this disc six times. six. i have purchased it in a big CD warehouse larger than a football field. i have purchased it in an intimate CD boutique. i have purchased it at the local hippie record store, which has a few CDs for those of us heretics who have shunned vinyl. i have purchased it in alabama and in mississippi. all six copies have had this enormously irritiating hiss that sounds as though my speakers were salvaged from a chevy nova. why, oh why???? am i forever destined to hear *about* eva cassidy and never *hear* eva cassidy? and i've been *such* a good girl, too! cindy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 07:34:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: First records, concerts and parent's music njc Kerry wrote: > I used to sing along in the living room and use > a candlestick for a microphone. (And that was just > last year.......KIDDING!) You said you don't have the Melissa/k.d. gene! I expect to see you on stage at next year's Fest!!! ; ) Lori, whose parents' records included The McGuire Sisters and "Sing Along with Mitch!" (Miller) ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 08:18:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Yahoo! News Story - New 'War Vote' Virus Deletes Computer Files I purposely did not tag this message NJC. Be careful, all. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010924/tc/tech_votevirus_dc_3.html Lori in MD ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:41:43 EDT From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Re: Tornado in College Park, MD In a message dated Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:44:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Janet Hess writes: > Tonight several tornadoes cut through the Washington, DC area. The campus of the University of Maryland, College Park, where Joni played in the Joni-Dylan tour, was especially hard hit. Tragically, two people died in a car on the campus. Hello, We were directly in the path of that tornado, which hit Laurel, MD also. It took off the roof of the high school a couple miles from our house. My husband was hiding in the laundry room with the cats (I wasn't home). of course, one of the cats wanted to be right by the window and watch everything. Our screen door was torn and we lost power but we're OK. Trees down everwhere. Mary ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 08:56:24 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Another Afghan perspective (NJC) The very last paragraph is particularly interesting. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19688-2001Sep24.html Lori in MD ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:01:10 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: RE: My father's passing (NJC) Shane Mattison wrote: "i just wanted to tell all my joni friends that my father just passed away today due to heart failure. I gave him about 5 minutes of his last breaths doing CPR. shane" Shane, I'm so very sorry to hear this. I hope that you and your family are able to gain strength from and take comfort in one another's presence. Take care of yourself, and each other. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers. Mary. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 09:15:06 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: coming out of lurkdom again (mainly njc) Lieve, I will prohbably start backing away from any more comments on our stuation for awhile. I feel deliberaltely misinterpreted on some points. Perhaps that has become because I have been more emotional than usual lately. I don't mean to make anyone's head spin and thought my comments have been pretty straightforward. I did not say Americans had exclusivity in the grief. I only (and this is probably the fourth time I've written this here) criticized two journalists. Many non-Americans who are on the list list have shared their own grief and I know they are completely sincere. I am very aware of the long years of fear of terrorism and attacks that you have been subjected to in the U.K. I realize that all of Europe is at risk and have had many incidents oever the years. Maybe this effort of so many countries coming together now may make a significant step towards eliminating it in every form. I did not make the comments about Catholicism to start a fight or offend anyone. It was just another one of many thoughts that have gone through my head in this issue. There has been much written here about pacificism and the Christian approach. It made me think back to what I was taught in the church I grew up. Although I am well aware of the old history of the Catholic church, I repeat (again) that I was only thinking of modern day Catholicism. I can write a long list of my personal experiences with that church that would serve as "proof" for my statements of their anti-war and pacifistic direction, but I don't want to blather on and on here. So Lieve, don't shudder, someone being concerned for their country and waving a flag is not really as scary as you might think. Take care, Kakki > Or maybe just quickly this: about catholicism and pacifism. I was raised a > catholic too, before I grew up and realised I could not believe what they or > any other religion told me (sorry Vince, I think you are an absolutely > wonderful person but I only believe in our own human duty to behave > morally). So I am speaking from within, and there are a lot of catholic > writers and thinkers and ordinary people (including my uncle who is a priest > and an absolute treasure) who I have a lot of respect for. But I need to > say, Kakki: the catholic church has only recently developed a "pacifist" > stream, comparable to that of any proper, moderate muslim thinking. It's > certainly nothing "typically catholic". And see how many catholic priests > in Northern Ireland are still supporting terrorists - giving them proper > military burials when they die "for the cause", a cause that is also naively > sponsored by Noraid from New York. > > Ah well, it's so difficult to be brief about things like that, I must stop. > Just to say again how much I appreciate pieces written recently by Kate > Bennett, Debra, Mike, Vince, Brenda, Marian, Yael, Evian, Michael, Fred, > Sherelle and doubtless some others I don't recall right now. > > Ashara, I am in utter admiration for what you are doing. I would love to > make it for the Jonifest next year but am not in a position where I can > commit myself at this point. I just hope very much that you will get enough > deposits together and that I can make it. If you are getting close to > losing the booking and you need a few more names to commit themselves, > please let me know and I will see what my situation is by then. > Lots of love to you all, > Lieve. > > > ********************************************************************** > EBRD SECURITY NOTICE > > This message has been Virus scanned > ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 09:10:01 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: Desert Island Discs If I had to limit my choices to ONLY ten, they would be: Joni - Miles of Aisles Aretha Franklin Live at Fillmore West Richard Thompson - Mock Tudor Beatles - Abbey Road Carole King - Live at Carnegie Hall James Taylor - Hourglass Billie Holiday - The Verve Silver Collection Rickie Lee Jones - Naked Songs Stevie Wonder - Music of My Mind Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young - Four Way Street Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:12:36 EDT From: Mauski4648@aol.com Subject: Van Tiels Geburtstag Lieber John, viele liebe Gruesse aus Deutschland nachtraeglich zu deinem Geburtstag: Gesundheit, Gl|ck mit deiner Liebsten und Zufriedenheit. Karin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 09:17:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: 10 desert island discs (NJC) In the order they occurred to me: Hejira Jonatha Brooke, Live Elton John, Madman Across the Water Bonnie Raitt, Nick of Time Rod Stewart, Every Picture Tells a Story Dog Eat Dog Cat Stevens, Catch Bull At Four Hissing of Summer Lawns Don Juans Reckless Daughter Melissa Manchester, The Essence of Melissa Manchester I might have to switch Nick of Time, or DED, for something by Joan Armatrading. Lori in MD NPIMH: "Can't Keep It In" ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:25:16 -0400 From: john van tiel Subject: Re: Van Tiels Geburtstag (NJC) Danke f|r die Gl|ckwunsche Karin (Zufriedenheid gibt's gen|gend :-) ), morgen fliege ich wieder zur|ck nach die Niederlande. Vielleicht kvnnen wir uns bald irgendwo treffen in die Niederlande oder in Deutschland. Bis dann. Tsch|ss, John > From: Mauski4648@aol.com > Reply-To: Mauski4648@aol.com > Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:12:36 EDT > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Van Tiels Geburtstag > > Lieber John, viele liebe Gruesse aus Deutschland nachtraeglich zu deinem > Geburtstag: > Gesundheit, Gl|ck mit deiner Liebsten und Zufriedenheit. Karin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:30:51 -0400 From: john van tiel Subject: Oops (NJC) Oops. Disregard my previous message please. It was not supposed to go on-list. Sorry to take up bandwidth. John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 09:45:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Test your memories NJC > How about your first cassette tape and your first 8-track? Good mind-stretching thread, Vince! Very first cassette, given to me by my grandmother: an awful collection of covers of then-popular (1971) songs, performed by wannabes. First cassette chosen on my own: Bread, "Baby I'm-A Want You," purchased solely for the song "Mother Freedom" 8-track: Stevie Wonder, "Talking Book" Lori in MD NPIMH: You and I (We Can Conquer the World) ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:05:19 -0500 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Song sets NJC Who was up with me onstage to do Hissing of Summer Lawns with me? Claudia? Kate? Leslie? Anyone else? Thanks, Steve, who can't remember... Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:17:51 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Shelby Lynne and (?) Marti Jones (njc) <> "Crusher" was on her '86 release 'Match Game'...Marti's a talented vocalist, and she turned in a very creative finger-popping cover of "Songs to Aging Children Come" on her own "My Long-Haired Life" and it was also on the Candian Tribute 'Back To The Garden'. I never likened her to Dusty, maybe I just didn't hear the right stuff... Marti's husband is Don Dixon, who's produced a bunch of great records (R.E.M. among others) and put out some good solo stuff too! He started out in a band called "Arrogance" that used to play Raleigh and the Southeast a lot. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:21:47 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: Catholic content (NJC--very long) Kakki, As a lifetime Roman Catholic (as a side note, I think that I must be one of the very few individuals alive who was not only "raised Catholic," but still actually *is* a Catholic! ), I must take issue with your characterization of the Catholic Church as "pacifist." It is not now, nor has it ever been, such a thing. The Catholic Church has long professed a doctrine called the "just war theory," which states that, under certain carefully delineated circumstances, the use of force is acceptable. I do not have time, unfortunately, to find a quick summary of this theory in print or on the web. However, in recent days, a book by former bishop (now Cardinal?) Daniel Pilarczyk (sp) has been recommended to me as a good introduction for those seeking to learn more about the Church's stance on use of force. I will also post an excerpt from an article that appeared this week in my local Catholic newspaper which is instructive. Finally, if memory serves, the JMDL's own Deb Messling is aware of some excellent links dealing with Catholic teachings on social and other issues. I think the long view of history, not only recent history, is necessary for a full understanding of the Catholic position here. Obviously, the Church fought and, at times, even spearheaded war efforts in the middle ages: witness the Crusades. However, if you wish to examine more recent events instead, many, many Catholics fought and died for the U.S. and other countries in World War II. Nobody ever suggested that they were anything other than good citizens AND good Catholics for doing so. In the Viet Nam era, many American males of draft age sought conscientious objector (CO) status. However, in my understanding, only a very limited number of CO designations on religious grounds were granted, and these were most, if not all, to members of established pacific churches, like the Mennonites. I don't know that ANYONE was declared a CO without having to prove a whole lot more simply on the grounds of being, or having been raised, a Catholic. In addition, many Catholic colleges, including my own alma mater, Marquette University in Milwaukee, WI, have effective and well-regarded ROTC programs. To my knowledge, it has *never* been recommended by the Church hierarchy, speaking with the authority of the Church, that these programs be disbanded as "anti-Catholic." In fact, I'm sure many of the officers who graduate from them and then go on to build long, distinguished careers in the military would tell you that, by their service, they are living their faith, not contradicting it. So would the aviators whose gold wings adorn the walls of the Catholic chapel on the naval base at Pensacola, Florida, where I have spent many Christmases. You mention, I believe, Dorothy Day, and perhaps, Thomas Merton. And theirs are, indeed, well-known Catholic voices for non-violence. However, it is important to note that THEIRS WERE ALSO MINORITY VOICES WITHIN THE CHURCH at the time they spoke out World War II and Viet Nam. Their views were NOT those of the Church hierarchy, and indeed, in the case of Day, were considered subversive, Communist, and dangerous by many. Time and perspective has eased this harsh judgment, to the point that the late John Cardinal O'Connor recommended that Day be considered for sainthood, but it was not always thus. Finally, you mention the Catholic Church's inaction during World War II. This is a dark, dark blot on the history of the Church, and one that Catholics are still attempting to remedy to this day. However, the controversy does not, as I understand it, stem from the fact that the Catholic Church's, and specifically, Pope Pius XII's silence against the Nazi regime was due to its pacifism. It stems from suspicions and outright accusations that it was due to its anti-Semitism. This issue still drives a wedge, albeit a completely understandable one, between us Catholics and our Jewish brothers and sisters. You are absolutely right if you perceive that the Pope and the hierarchy have moved more and more toward the side of non-violence and non-violent response, in most cases, since, say, the Second Vatican Council in 1963. Another great impetus, in addition to prophetic voices such as Day, Merton, Gandhi, and King, was the development of the "seamless garment" or "consistent life ethic" by the late Joseph Cardinal Bernardin of Chicago, and others. According to this theory, the Church stands on the side of human life at ALL times from conception until natural death. I know; it's controversial. But the Church, in the last 20 years, has sought to define "pro-life" as not only being synonymous with "anti-abortion," but also "anti-indiscriminate nuclear proliferation" (See the Bishop's Pastoral Letter of 1983), anti-punitive welfare reform (the Pastoral Letter on Economic Justice may speak to this), and anti-death penalty (e.g., the pronouncements of the Pope in the last three years or so, and the work of Sr. Helen Prejean, memorialized in the film "Dead Man Walking"). It is impossible to characterize the Church stance on this motley collection of issues as "liberal" or "conservative," although many have tried, and many Catholics do not agree with the entire package. It *is* the official position of the Church, though, and it is consistent. For all that, however, the Catholic teaching on war remains the same. Use of force CAN be justified, especially in the case of self-defense. But, among other things, it must be used with great forethought, it should be used sparingly, and it should, at all times, seek to minimize, if not alleviate, the possibility of civilian casualties, or "collateral damage." It is true, then, that Church teaching places grave restrictions on the use of force. However, in these circumstances, and in these times, can anyone believe that forethought and "sparing use of violence" are bad things to be avoided? I'll post the article I mentioned momentarily. I hope you find this helpful. None of these are easy issues. And, for the record, although (or because) I am very much still a student of such topics myself, I am, practically as we speak, attempting to organize a discussion group or seminar in my own parish and diocese on the U.S. response to recent events in light of Catholic teachings. I'm looking for a few good experts. ;-) Mary P., in Madison ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #438 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?