From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #436 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, September 25 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 436 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Justice, not Terror NJC ["Kakki" ] Re: first concert (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: Justice, not Terror NJC ["Kakki" ] Re: Uncle John !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Catherine McKay ] Re: 10 desert island discs (NJC) [Coyote4Joni@aol.com] Re: Test your memories NJC [Coyote4Joni@aol.com] Subject: Re: 10 desert island discs ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: 10 desert island disks njc ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: 10 desert island discs [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Subject: Re: 10 desert island discs [Catherine McKay ] RE: new york these days (NJC) ["patrick leader" ] Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) ["jlamadoo, home account" ] Re: First concert(s)? (NJC) [Reuben3rd@aol.com] Happy Birthday, Bob Muller njc, short ["jlamadoo, home account" ] Re: War/AntiWar/Church NJC ["Kakki" ] Re: The Bridge School Concert [NJC] [Richard Goldman ] Tornado in College Park, MD [Janet Hess ] Straw Man?, njc ["jlamadoo, home account" ] Desert Island Discs NJC [Tyler Hewitt ] Re: HB- hell and Susan... NJC ["hell" ] Re: First concert(s)? (NJC) ["hell" ] my father's passing (njc) ["shane mattison" ] Re: my father's passing (njc) [Janet Hess ] Re: 10 desert island discs ["hell" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 18:33:49 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Justice, not Terror NJC Vince, A lot of people, including the Catholics themselves, consider Catholics to be generally pacifists. But that may be a misnomer and I see what you mean if you compare them to the Amish, Quakers, etc. Perhaps the better words would have been to say that Catholic church tends to be staunchly anti-war and takes the stance that prayer and charity is the answer. Kakki > Staunch pacifism would include the Mennonites, Amish, and the Seventh day Adventists. The Adventists have suffered terribly in this country for their pacifism. The history of this nation's treatment of pacifists in the Civil > war through WW! period is shameful and improved by degrees since then. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 18:46:10 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: first concert (NJC) > Jimmy, who last night discussed with Ed if Joni looks >like a young Jeane Kirkpatrick LOL OMG Jimmy, you are killing me LOL!! I think you you are right - ahhhhhhhhhh!!! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 18:49:39 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Justice, not Terror NJC > Hey! Don't forget the Quakers! (I'm a product of >Quaker education, but it obviously didn't take). So was Nixon ;-D Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:13:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Uncle John !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - --- Brian Gross wrote: > Happy Happy Happy Birthday to our Dutch Uncle > The bearer of chocolates and cheeses > The man who would put his finger in a dyke (sp?) to > save a nation! > The Euro arm of the Muller Music Machine > The man who has charmed an angel's voice (and > guitar) > Happy birthday,Johnny van T! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:25:58 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Uncle John !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Happy birthday,Johnny van T! > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca And wishes for a most excellent birthday from me as well, John! Mark E ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:25:03 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Justice, not Terror NJC > > Staunch pacifism would include the Mennonites, Amish, and the Seventh day > Adventists. Don't forget the Quakers! Victor, graduate of Guilford College, formed by Quakers in 1837 (funny though...their football team is called the Fighting Quakers) Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:30:01 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Re: 10 desert island discs (NJC) Hair pulling time again. Here are mine in no particular order, except the first: Joni: Miles of Aisles Studio 54 Soundtrack Dionne Warwick: Brazil CD Rolling Stones: Sticky Finger Keeley Smith: Sinatra Tribute Oleta Adams: Circle of One Carole King: Thoroughbred Todd Rundgren: A Wizard, A True Star Fogelberg/Weisburg: Twin Sons of Different Mothers Linda Ronstadt: Mad Love And since Jimmy didn't take along any Joni, I'll bring DED as well. He's such a bad packer. :-) No regrets, Coyote Rick Casa Alegre Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:32:30 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Re: Test your memories NJC In a message dated 9/24/01 2:43:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, revrvl@chartermi.net writes: << How about your first cassette tape and your first 8-track? >> That's too hard Vince. But I do remember my first CD, Bruce Hornsby and the Range, That's Just The Way It Is. No regrets, Coyote Rick Casa Alegre Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:13:09 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Re: 10 desert island discs Sorry, there is just no way I could choose only 10 discs...I would just grab one of my 200 cd changers (the one with joni cds in it)in one hand & my guitar in my other & go... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:13:10 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Picture CD's from Jonifest 2001 NJ Steve I would love a copy. Mine got slashed in the mail. Let me know what you need from me in order to do this...$ or a blank CD & postage? ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:35:39 -0700 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: about "proof" (njc) Dear Martin: I'm really not joking, and am interested for the reasons you think for the September 11, attacks. Tell me, help me! (I don't if I would use jealous.....they just don't like the way we do things and what we stand for) Bree >From: "Martin Giles" >Reply-To: "Martin Giles" >To: "joni digest" >Subject: Re: about "proof" (njc) >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:51:08 +0100 > >Oh, please tell me you don't believe this Bree? That the terrorists killed >all those people and themselves out of JEALOUSY? Tell me you're joking. > >Martin. In London. > > > >No, they hate the West and all we stand for.....they can't stand that we >are > >prosperous and we live free in all are diversity. THIS is the reason for > >the events Of September 11, 2001. > >Bree _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:39:15 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: 10 desert island disks njc Joni Mitchell- Hejira Grateful Dead- Europe '72 Bob Marley- Exodus John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman Stevie Wonder- Fullfillingness First Finale Van Morrison- Astral Weeks Nick Drake- Bryter Lyter Pink Floyd- Dark Side of the Moon Iron Maiden- Piece of Mind Marvin Gaye- What's Going On Victor in Athens Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:41:00 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Uncle John !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(njc) You must be a really cool dude! You even have a band named after ou!( Uncle John's Band) Happy Birthday! Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:01:48 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: War/AntiWar/Church NJC Kakki, sorry, wrong. The Catholic Church has never ben staunchly anti-war, never. From the year 325 in which the motto of Emperor Constantine said, "With this cross we will conquer" the Roman Church has been anything but anti-war. Augustine began developing the "just war" theory which came to its fruition under Thomas Aquinas. That theory above all has informed the Roman Catholic Church, which undertook Crusades, not prayer and charity, as its attempt to convert the Middle East. Then history of the Middle Ages, the Papal states, the armies of the Holy Roman Empire, the 30 Years war, the 100 years war, the military conquest of the New World to bring Christianity to the native Americans... Kakki, this is not opinion, this is plain historical fact. I mean, the armies of the Holy Roman Empire were there to express the military objectives of the Vatican. The Roman Catholic has from Constantine, with the Just War theory as official teaching, been involved in, and blessed war. I say this as fact, not in judgment. It takes until Dorothy Day and Mother Theresa to begin to advocate an anti-war view. Pax Christi has become a major player in the American peace community, but this is a relatively new organization - although with wonderful resources which I commend. John Paul II has been the first pope to take what may be said to be a stand against war, prepared for by Paul VI, for which I admire them, but John Paul has not removed the Just War theory as official teaching. Kakki, there is simply no way to say that the Roman Catholic Church is "staunchly anti-war." That is simply totally untrue. I am saying that purely on a Church historical basis. I am not saying the Catholic Church is pro-war, but the the Just War theory is a doctrine of the Church, it is a dogmatic teaching, and the history of the Catholic Church makes that very clear. This is not the line of argument that you want to pursue for the massive weight of church teachings and history lay against you. Again, I say this not be combative. I am simply saying as I gently as I can to advance your positions, which I encourage for the freedom of our discussions and the growth of all of us in learning from each other, that in this area, your experience of peace in the Catholic Church was your personal experience but is not Catholic teaching, dogma, doctrine, canonical, practice, or experience going back to the year 325 at least with Constantine and replete through Pius XII. as lovingly as I can say this, I did, Kakki, but this is an area of not opinion (which my next post will be) but fact. And I want to say it with respect to you gently before someone jumps on you for it. I am trying to be your friend... (the Rev) Vince Kakki wrote: > Vince, > > A lot of people, including the Catholics themselves, consider Catholics to > be generally pacifists. But that may be a misnomer and I see what you mean > if you compare them to the Amish, Quakers, etc. Perhaps the better words > would have been to say that Catholic church tends to be staunchly anti-war > and takes the stance that prayer and charity is the answer. > > Kakki > > > Staunch pacifism would include the Mennonites, Amish, and the Seventh day > Adventists. The Adventists have suffered terribly in this country for their > pacifism. The history of this nation's treatment of pacifists in the Civil > > war through WW! period is shameful and improved by degrees since then. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:04:13 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: 10 desert island discs "Laurent Olszer" wrote: >Has any JMDLer ever seen JIMI live? If so, could you please describe your >impressions. Can't remember, so I guess I must have. - -Fred Simon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:06:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Subject: Re: 10 desert island discs - --- Kate Bennett wrote: > Sorry, there is just no way I could choose only 10 > discs...I would just grab > one of my 200 cd changers (the one with joni cds in > it)in one hand & my > guitar in my other & go... Don't forget a crate of batteries, because there's no electricity there and otherwise you'll be stuck with a bunch of CDs and no way to play 'em! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:06:18 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Questions NJC This is a first draft of questions that I am formulating. I would appreciate response, off list if people so choose. But I ask these questions in all sincerity. 1. We hear that our nation must exercise military action against the Taliban because of the evil nature of the Taliban. If this is so, why was there no talk of war against the Taliban on September 10th or any day prior? 2. If we take military action against the Taliban because we think it is an evil, oppressive, regime, is this nation then not taking an action that says that we are the judge of all other nations? Why then couldn't another nation go to war against us because they think that our government is evil and oppressive? Who is to be the judge of the governments of other nations? Where does the going to war because of dislike of other nations or their governments stop? 3. Should we take military action against the Taliban because of our opinion of its government and its values, then innocent people will be killed. That is the reality of war. How then does that differ from someone killing innocent people in our country because of their opinion of our government and its values? Because of the loss of innocent life, what would distinguish us - other than our opinion of ourselves - from those who did the evil acts of September 11th? Or does anyone think we can to war without having any civilians killed? 4. A reason cited often about the evil of the Taliban is their treatment of women. I agree that their treatment is horrible - according to our understandings. Do we possess universal truth and stand ready to wage war against those whose values differ from ours? From the viewpoint of the fundamentalists who condemn our nation, the events of September 11th were justified because of what they perceive as the corruption of our society/culture and point to our alcoholism, drugs, materialism, and values, and because of our corruptness that is so world-wide pervasive. Thus, they were justified in these heinous acts of terrorism. If we feel that their acts of terrorism against our people - because of their view of how we live - was wrong, then how can we justify military action against them because of how they live? 5. If we deplore the treatment of women under the Taliban, how will war with Afghanistan be good for the women of Afghanistan? Women and children will be killed in our taking military action against the Taliban. Will their deaths improve their lives? 5a. Do we have weapons of war that will kill only adult males and spare the women and children? And would that be any better? 5b. Are there ways that do not include war that we act on behalf of the women of Afghanistan? Maybe if given their choice, they would prefer to forgo education rather than suffer war and have us find alternate ways to assist them. 6. The United States is precious to us all because of what it stands for, what is basic to our self understanding. A basic American principle is "innocent until proven guilty." Read the Constitution - the 7th Amendment preserves the right to trial by jury for a civil suit of $20 or more. Are we less concerned about having a presentation of the evidence against bin Laden than we are for $20? We have had yet no proof offered of Osama bin Laden's complicity in the terrorism of September 11th. Do we adhere to the basic principles of America only when the times are easy and abandon what makes America great by casting out our basic principles when times are very difficult? Why not lay out our evidence against bin Laden in the war crimes tribunal in the Hague, or in the United Nations, offering bin Laden the choice to be present and rebut the evidence? We are defending the United States after all, and the American way of life, so let us do it the American way, as Americans, proud of our Constitution. Let me quote the 6th Amendment: "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense. " If we cannot lay out the evidence before the world before we take actions, we are violating the 6th Amendment, we violate the Constitution, and we do harm to our own selves and what makes the United States what it is. Are we ready to abandon the rule of law for the rule of revenge? Are we ready to abandon our self-control in the heat of the legitimate emotions we are feeling? 6a. For those who say that we cannot lay out evidence because it would compromise security, not only does that violate the Constitution but it is the tired old excuse of every dictatorship, every oppressive regime, ever. In a free society, in our country, we do not have "secret evidence." "Secret evidence" was the mainstay of the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Idi Amin's Uganda, South Africa under apartheid, perhaps the Taliban for all I know. I love my country and do not want it to go that route. Do you? 6b. If we wage military action against Afghanistan to get at bin Laden, we are waging war against a people - and thus innocent people will die. How is that different from the deaths of innocent people on September 11? 6c. If Chile were to demand Henry Kissinger be handed over to a certain death because of his well-documented role in the CIA's involvement in the overthrow of Allende, and the terrorism that followed done by our chosen leader, Pinochet, 3,000 Chileans "disappeared," would we turn Kissinger over? Would Chile have the right to go to war against us? If Chile says, if you support him, we will wage war on you, will we say, well, ok, here you go, take Henry? 6d. There have been ample studies of the effects of war on people. The results are counter-productive to the intended goal. People are not cowered, they get united in their opposition to those who wage war against them. We are not cowered by the events of September 11th; it brought us together. London was not cowered by the Blitz; it brought London together. Dresden was not cowered by the fire raids and carpet bombing; they fought all the harder. Why do we think that if we take military action against Afghanistan, the Taliban will crumble rather than have its people rally around it? 7. What happens if bin Laden was not involved? What happens if it turns out others were responsible? Do we go after bin Laden because of his associations? That would violate basic principles in American law. Again, the proofs must be laid out. 8. We strike at Afghanistan because we victims of terrorism. In large parts of the world, we will be seen as the evil actor and aggressor for the overkill of our response, and for terror or war that we will inflict as a natural consequence of war. Thus there will be those who will seek vengeance on us through acts of terrorism against us. Thus our military actions will not make us safer, but more vulnerable. Violence begets violence; the blood of dead Afghans will be the nourishment for others to take up the cause of terrorism against the United States. When does the cycle of violence end, and when will we break it? 9. Timothy McVeigh referred to the death of the children in the bombing of the Murrah Building as "collateral damage." We were all correctly appalled at his language and his thinking. In war, in the military action that we propose, our government has already said that of course the nature of war means collateral damage - the deaths of children and other innocents. Why is collateral damage wrong when done by McVeigh and right when done by our military acting on behalf of our nation? 10. Back to the Constitution which is the essence of what it means to be an American - a nation of laws, not people. Do we violate our own legal procedures by having no evidence, no proofs, no place where we lay these things out for the international community to judge, no place for bin Laden to hear the evidence against him (6th Amendment), no place to gain a verdict in our favor that would give such moral force to our cause of seeking punishment on those who did these terrorist acts on September 11? Law, and our following that law, following the covenant of the Constitution that makes us a nation of law, this defines the United States and makes us the beacon of justice that we are. It is essential to our nation especially at this time to adhere to our Constitution. There must be a trial - before the War Crimes Tribunal, in absentia for bin Laden if he so chooses, or in the United Nations, but someplace. England and Libya came to agreement on how to try those accused in the Lockerbee bombing. We can certainly do the same if we seek that route. We must confirm our self-control and not act impulsively out of the emotions of the events. The rule of law is essential to America. The last question: do you know the words to "America," the words to "O beautiful for spacious skies." I provide them for those who do not know all three verses: O beautiful for spacious skies, For amber waves of grain; For purple mountain majesties Above the fruited plain! America! America! God shed His grace on thee, And crown thy good with brotherhood, From sea to shining sea. O beautiful for heroes proved In liberating strife, Who more than self their country loved, And mercy more than life! America! America! May God thy gold refine, Till all success be nobleness, And every gain divine. O beautiful for patriot dream That sees beyond the years Thine alabaster cities gleam, Undimmed by human tears! America! America! God mend thine every flaw, Confirm thy soul in self control, Thy liberty in law. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:10:14 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: new york these days (NJC) what a beautiful post, emily. this week's cover of the new yorker is a loose line drawing of a bunch of legs walking by a picture of a fireman and a candle. i don't think the point was the legs walking by, i think it was how we all feel the loss of our firemen and police, and are trying to let the survivors know we care. i've a friend who works for the lincoln center chamber music society; they're giving a free concert tomorrow night at which donations will be accepted for the local engine and ladder companies. a total of 11 lost. 23 children left. there are so many painful statistics like that... last week, maybe thursday night, one of the last nights before they removed most of the union square memorials, i had one of my most difficult moments since 9/11. as i've mentioned, there was a beautiful memorial in union square where some people (who had brought tons of roses from south africa for a flower show that was cancelled) set up a display of the twin towers in flowers. as did every display in ny, this one drew tons of candles, more flowers, and most importantly, many of the 'missing' flyers that have papered new york. our memorials... anyway, that evening a fireman, still in uniform with gas mask around neck, was deeply feeling this memorial. squatting down, picking up individual flyers, looking at faces of the lost, holding back tears. and everyone around a little more torn by his pain. i hadn't cried in 36 hours or so and i just fell apart watching this person mourn... i wish it were better circumstances, but thanks for writing, emily. it's great to hear from you and i wish you and courtney much happiness on your special day. i think finding happiness is more important than ever. a couple of nights ago i spent an evening with a bunch of architects whose office was burned out in the disaster. they lost no one, but lots of their work, as well as individual libraries and portfolios. and many of them had experienced the worst of the survivor stories, seeing people jumping, seeing body parts on the ground, etc. but that evening, we laughed our asses off at some post-disaster stories. the principal of the firm who couldn't find a copy of the insurance policy. the controller who spoke at the first company meeting three days after the hit, after the ineffectual principals, saying "i want you all to apply for unemployment by monday" (when the policy was finally found, salaries were, of course, covered). the three-week employee who had already given her notice, and turned out to have six full projects backed up on zip disks at home... we laughed and howled, knowing the the difficulty of laughing and howling, so close to this disaster. and it felt good. these folks have so much to deal with, so much more than me, but laughing felt so good. we thought the mayor, the governor, the sec, the fbi, they should all be in touch with this woman, because who knows what she has backed up in her house. well, maybe you had to be there... i sign this patrick, in my usual scattered way, with much love for the list including such lurkers as emily... jfp - bjork - vespertine - how shallow it felt to buy a pop desire like that album. it sounds good, but it's really going to take a while before such simple pleasures break through my darkest griefs from 9/11 > >one thing i DID want to write about: last week one night >courtney and i walked over to a local bar because we'd >seen a poster that said all its proceeds would go to >firemen and women, police officers, and the families who >lost them. when we saw the bar, it had literally overflowed >onto the street, hundreds of people, neighbors, all ages, >even kids who were drinking sodas -- all out to spend >money for this cause. i saw people buy one drink and give >$20 -- every single dollar going into a huge jar for the >fund. the crazed bartenders REFUSED TO TAKE TIPS, although >we tried, saying they wanted to donate their time. (as >an exbartender myself, this made a major impression!) but >here's the best part: our firefighters and police officers >were there. some in uniform, some out (some even on duty >who got coffee and sat in their cars to watch). they were >just overcome by seeing this show of support. they were >treated like heroes! they were laughing, crying sometimes, >getting slapped on the back. they had their drinks passed >to them by many, many grateful people who kept saying thank >you to them. it was like a block party, but with the biggest >heart you can imagine. it was like magic. there was talk >of war, yeah, but there was mainly just love in the air. >and the smell of spilled beer. and laughter. and music >from the jukebox. > >as we walked out, we said goodnight to officers and firefighters, >who smiled and raised their glasses to us. around the corner >was a firetruck, with a firefighter in uniform standing next >to it. we walked right up to him and i told him that we came >out that night to support him and his coworkers and that i >was proud to get a chance to say thank you in person. thank >you for HIS work. for doing HIS job in my city. he nodded, >and smiled, and said thank you back to us. > >so then i walked home, through one of those early fall brooklyn >nights, holding the hand of the person i'm going to marry >right here in brooklyn in less than a month -- and things >were, just for one moment, OK. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:15:03 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: new york these days (NJC) Patrick, I have been saving your posts, Emily's, Deb's, others whose names I cannot recall this late hour at night, for they speak so movingly of what it was for you who were in the midst of these things. Has anyone else saved them? I could say I would do it, but I won't get to it, so I ask someone to put together in one place the stories of our JMDLers who were in NYC on September 11th. As we are a community, perhaps these should be preserved on the website. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:20:26 -0400 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) Now **HERE**'S a safe topic. Whew! No controversy here. Mine were: first 33 + 1/3: Shared ownership of "Meet the Monkees" I don't remember the actual first 45 I owned but the first one that spoke *for* me, instead of *to* me, was, (as mentioned recently) "Fire & Rain" by that stringbean guy. Lama ps. Leslie, thanks for the nice dancing. Tell Steve thanks for the SQL site. Remarkably, I'm now creating users, permissions and scripts on our SQL Server, v 7. Cross your fingers for me. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:23:05 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Jonifest 2001 Webpage Dear all, The past several weeks have been very tough for all of us, and personally, between my family being ill and the events of the past 2 weeks, I have not been able to get to things as quickly as I'd like. The text part of the Jonifest 2001 webpage is finally up, and let me tell you, I have a new-found respect for Les and Jim and the time it takes to put this kind of thing together. It literally took me about 20-30 hours to put it in the kind of form needed for the page. Granted, someone that knows what they are doing might have taken less time, but nonetheless, it was a daunting task. The pictures are taking a much longer time. For one thing, there are literally hundreds and hundreds of great pictures to wade through. I am trying to pick out the best of the lot to put up on the website. After those decisions are made, I have to scan them all and put them into a searchable database. Bob Murphy is working hard on the captions, and Les is putting them in a size that works for the site, as well as putting them into the webpage. All these things take time, and I know it is hard to be patient. The fact is, some of the impatience is getting out of hand, and some people are expecting way too much of 3 people that have a lot of other things to deal with besides the webpage. I know the Jonifest 2001 webpage will be the very best ever when it is complete. In the meantime, I ask for a LOT of tolerance and patience in letting this get done in the time that works for all 3 of us. We are volunteering our time to do this for you in the little spare time we have. Thanks for listening, and I hope you enjoy the page when it is complete. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:26:11 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Re: Red Cross We had a weird thing happen at the place I work. The Corporation that owns my Company (Sempra Energy, which is a Fortune 500 outfit) said they would match employee contributions up to $500K in addition to the $750,000 they gave not in the corporate name, but in the name of our most profitable and growing subsidiary. Well, many of us that work for Southern California Gas Company were outraged that the Corp folks would try to seize some "publicity" for the "favorite child" instead of giving in the name of the corporation as a whole. It was so self-serving. We rebels (and there were a lot of us) hatched a plan. We decided to go (in person) to the Red Cross and make our donations instead of playing this silly game. We realized we might forfeit the company match, so we all agreed to do that ourselves. So, the people that planned to give $35 gave $70 and so on and so forth. A lot of protest emails went to our HR department and my Company quietly asked us for receipts, then sent a check to the Red Cross, matching ours. I was proud of all involved. No regrets, Coyote Rick Casa Alegre Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:48:36 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Irony- NJC "Mike Pritchard" >Bearing in mind Sting's lines 'nothing comes from violence, and nothing >ever could' it seems that we are losing our capacity to see irony even when >it slaps us in the face. >Isn't it ironic, doncha think? I'll admit it ... I fail to see irony in Sting's lyric. What is it? - -Fred Simon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:50:00 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: 10 desert island discs (NJC) Laurent wrote: > Has any JMDLer ever seen JIMI live? If so, could you please describe your > impressions. > I usually don't post with the "firsts" thing, because I can never remember what I bought first. Too many, too long ago. However.........I aboslutely remember my first concert ever. (I've told this story before, so old timers can delete now.) I was pretty young at the time, and my best friend's dad owned a music store. So....he would get free tickets to all the concerts he sold tickets for, which was a lot. The first concert I went to was with her and my older brother, and we went into Hartford to see Jimi Hendrix. It was a great concert, but I didn't understand something during the concert. Towards the end, he started smashing his guitar against the amplifiers, making an awful noise. Well, first of all, I was just learning how to play the guitar, and I couldn't fathom why someone would wreck a perfectly good instrument. But, secondly, after a good hit, he'd turn around and make this funny sign with his fingers, laughing, then he'd do it again and again. Finally, knowing my brother would make complete fun of me, (or "take the mickey out of me" for you Brits) I had to ask. What did that sign mean he was making with his fingers? "YOU TWIT!!!!!" It's the PEACE sign!!!!!! So.....unfortunately, I can't tell you much about what he played, but I will always remember that concert. LOL!! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:51:59 EDT From: Reuben3rd@aol.com Subject: Re: Test your memories NJC Too young for 8-tracks, but my first cassette was either Michael Jackson's Thriller, or Cyndi Lauper's She's So Unusual. Whoa... Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:53:12 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: new york these days (NJC) > Has anyone else saved them? > > I could say I would do it, but I won't get to it, so I ask someone to > put together in one place the stories of our JMDLers who were in NYC on > September 11th. As we are a community, perhaps these should be > preserved on the website. > > (the Rev) Vince I've been saving them and was going to put them in a folder in Outlook. I feel they are historical documents. Les, if you want them, I'm pretty sure I have most, if not all of them. Mark E ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:55:22 EDT From: Reuben3rd@aol.com Subject: Re: First concert(s)? (NJC) Hmmm...my first concert (with parents) was Gordon Lightfoot. Very good show, in Portland, Maine. By myself, was maybe...Madonna, or Morrissey, maybe...? I really don't remember. Where's Colin? Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 00:07:27 -0400 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: Happy Birthday, Bob Muller njc, short Now here's a topic we can all agree on, eh friends? Bob's swell. Happy birthday big guy. :) Lama ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:18:50 -0700 From: "Robert Holliston" Subject: goodbye (njc) Friends, It's been an extraordinary three and a half years, and I'll remember it, and you, forever. But the time has come for me to say addio. Very best to all, Roberto _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:31:00 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: War/AntiWar/Church NJC Well, holy ____! I was thinking of the current day Catholic Church and at least my experience of it has been that they are peaceniks for lack of a better word. Maybe it's just the church in California that is this way, but I thought that this position was fairly common. Again in recent history - I'm not talking about the crusades, etc. Wasn't that church criticized for not taking a stand in WWII? Although they did aid and harbor people being persecuted. Of course, I also did not mean to say that all Catholics are anti-war - it is well known that many Catholics do not tend to adhere to all church dogma. Did you see the Pope's message on the current crisis? You can read it here http://uk.news.yahoo.com/010923/80/c4y98.html Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:25:57 -0700 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Re: The Bridge School Concert [NJC] OK, I'm doing this. I'm actually replying to my own post. Has anyone else ever done that? I mean .. right away? .. Well, I am. This is what the subject/title of this post *really* was meant to be: Would Joni Play at The Bridge School Concert? Or... Will Joni play at The Bridge School Concert? Will she? won't she? is probably even closer. Richard Is this really *still* an [NJC] post...? I suppose and am pretty sure it is. n.p.-the hugest thunderstorm the SF/Bay Area has seen in years: 3+ hours, and still going strong. (visual-amazing lightening strikes, and an occasional household electrical flicker) At 9:18 PM 9/24/01, JMDL Digest wrote: > >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 10:57:57 -0700 >From: Richard Goldman >Subject: Bridge School Benefit Concert [NJC] > >Did anyone else snag tickets to the Bridge School Benefit at >Shoreline, in Mountainview, CA? http://www.bridgeschool.org >Saturday sold out in 20 minutes, and I couldn't find seats at all, >but got lawn tickets. I didn't even try for Sunday, since it will go >way late, too late for a Sunday night. >PERFORMING: >NEIL YOUNG & CRAZY HORSE >R E M >PEARL JAM >DAVE MATTHEWS >TRACY CHAPMAN >BEN HARPER >and others to be announced. >Amazing how popular this concert is... I've never gone before, but >was determined to get to it this year. And I will! >Richard in San Francisco ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 00:30:59 -0400 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: the good news,,,,,, njc this morsel almost got lost on me during Friday's music/crying jag: the thing is: a very small number of people are consumed with murder, seeking to murder civilians of scores of nations BUT millions and millions and millions of people are suddenly and overwhelming looking out for each other. Think of all of those uplifting stories of strangers helping strangers. Of one life-long friend who stayed behind with his quadrapulic friend, in spite of the danger of the unknown. What about the courage of that guy, who thought, "Well, gee whiz, I'm not gonna leave Frank here, like this!" I'm not saying he had a death wish. I'm not saying he foretold his death and chose it. I'm talking about the fact that he didn't KNOW that the building was gonna collapse. His -main- concern was in ************************** NOT LEAVING MY FRIEND ALONE WITH HIS FEAR. ************************** Ya know? I mean, people from all different religions have suffered, and donated, and wept and helped. Even if you look at the numbers, **WE** are right. The peaceful, the civilized, the faithful. Look at the numbers. It's been years since we've had a hijacking, hasn't it? I mean, look how safe we were for so very, very, very long. Is civilisation a trusting bunch of people or what? The pilot and co-pilot sat beyond a flimsy door, without a guard. And this arrangement was so right, so fitting for civilization, that very, very few people got hurt for decades. No, this event does **NOT** shake my faith. Lama PS. I'm not joining in the flag waving but I'm not above wrapping myself up tight in my faith. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 00:33:40 -0400 From: Janet Hess Subject: Tornado in College Park, MD Tonight several tornadoes cut through the Washington, DC area. The campus of the University of Maryland, College Park, where Joni played in the Joni-Dylan tour, was especially hard hit. Tragically, two people died in a car on the campus. I suppose it's a sign of the times that, when the emergency radio broadcasting system broke in on the NPR program I was listening to as the storms approached, I said to myself Gee, I hope it's just the weather. Tornadoes of this stripe are rare in this area. It seems remarkable that there were not more fatalities. Property damage was extensive, but it could have been much, much worse. Janet and Deanna, who carefully paced on a windowsill as the storm approached - -------------- You've got to shake your fists at lightning now You've got to roar like forest fire You've got to spread your light like blazes All across the sky Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 01:10:24 -0400 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: Straw Man?, njc Isn't this railing against war something like attacking a straw man? I mean, as soon as this happened our President (the war lord??) was saying things like, "our military is designed to destroy high value targets. That's what they are designed for. But the problem with our new enemy is that the hills of Afhanistan are owned by very, very poor people. The hills are completely devoid of high value targets. Our enemy hides in caves. Literally. We have to flush them out of their holes. We have to get them on the run so we can stop them." Didn't we all hear Bush saying this? Some people think Dubya, the C student, struts into a press conference, and puffed up with metaphorical warnings, proclaims, "Our enemy hids in tunnels! I say we smoke them out!" That's not what I think happens for 2 reasons. 1. Dubya was a "c" student. :) What I mean by that is that a "C" student doesn't come up with metaphors about smoking out his emeny where he hids. That's something an lit major (or Joni fan) comes up with! 2. Dubya has sense and listens when people give him briefings. What I suspect happened, instead, is this. Dubya was in a briefing and someone, using small words, said, "Mister President, the enemy has a complex network of tunnels in the hills of Afganistan. We can't bomb them cause it would NOT accomplish our aims and it would alienate world opinion. We have to make them move so our military intellegence can track them." Then, I suspect, Bush walks out, in front of the TV cameras and says, "Our enemy hids in caves. We must smoke them out." He all but said, "Listen, as long as bin Lauden is in a cave in the hills of Afganistan, he's safe. He might just as well be in a bunker. In fact, a cave is nearly a perfect bunker. We are not going to bomb him out no matter HOW many bombs we use. We learned in the hills of Vietnam and the Soviets learned in Afganistan. We will not repeat the past." Do we really believe that Bush will get us into a war in Afganistan? Does anyone really believe that the US wants to kill the half-starved apolitical Afgans? Plus, just after the attacks, our retired General Schwartzkoff, who ran the Desert Storm campaign, said to Brokaw, "In Desert Storm we risked our OWN materiel and personnel to protect civilians. That's the complete _opposite_ of what these _bastards_ have done." So, I think that clucking about how our military is full of angry, violent, dangerous white men is wrong headed. (The army is not run by the Lt. Callie's of the world. It's run by stategists like Schwartzkoff and Powell.) I think fretting about war is a coping mechanism though and I see everyone doing that. (I've done that myself. The stress is getting to many of us, including me. Normally, I don't argue on jmdl but I was swayed just a little, last week.) No more attacks on our friends, eh guys? Consider that we have lots of work to do and scolding the military _in advance_ while everyone is still building cases, and detaining witnesses, and building alliances, and (probably) buying influence, seems premature. Dubya warned us about not expecting a quick resolution. Lamadoo I didn't vote for Dubya but he's risen to the occasion and hasn't spill any classified information that I'm aware of. As a figurehead, he's done better than okay and that's what I expect now from a president. Simply to carry the title with dignity is a tremendous responsibility. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:35:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Tyler Hewitt Subject: Desert Island Discs NJC Here's mine (in no particular order) 1. Joni-Summer Lawns and Hejira (don't make me choose one!) 2. XTC-Apple Venus Vol. 1 3. The Shaggs CD 4. The Residents-Duck Stab/Buster & Glen 5. The Harry Partch Collection V. 2 6. Bela Bartok-Concerto For Orchestra, Music for Percussion, Strings and Celesta: Fritz Reiner, Chicago Symphony Orchestra 7. Tom Waits-Rain Dogs 8. Ethiopiques V. 3 9. Negativland-Escape From Noise 10. Los Lobos-Kiko ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:42:26 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: HB- hell and Susan... NJC Steve of the Immaculate Hair wrote: > And Hell of the Cheese Hat Hall of Fame, Who wasn't I suppose to tell > about the case of lipstick that you had shipped home from LA? Oh, for god's sake, Steve, shut up! Don't tell everyone - I have reputation to uphold! Seriously folks, it was just a case of raspberry-flavoured chapstick. It just "looked" like lipstick. Really. No, honestly, it was! They put far too much colouring in those things these days..... Hell - about to head out to the pub in a couple of hours, so I better get started on my make-uuuuumm - hair, I mean hair! ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:54:58 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: First concert(s)? (NJC) Sue wrote: > Martin Giles wrote: > > > >As a matter of fact the first band I ever saw live was Nazereth, as they > >were supporting Purple. They were complete dingo's kidneys! > > Oh my gawd Martin this is just too funny! > Hell, where was this come-back during all of the kidding over Labor Day? > > Dingo's fecking kidneys, I am dying!!!!!! > ROTFLMAO!!!!! I think (although I could be wrong) Martin is paraphrasing Douglas Adams in the Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy. There's a line that goes something like "he wouldn't give two fetid dingo kidneys....." A great line - pity I never thought to use it! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 00:25:43 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: my father's passing (njc) i just wanted to tell all my joni friends that my father just passed away today due to heart failure. I gave him about 5 minutes of his last breaths doing CPR. shane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 02:16:01 -0400 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: my father's passing (njc) O Shane...sending beams your way Janet and Deanna Ivy the Wonderkitty, who sends extra snuggles - -------------- You've got to shake your fists at lightning now You've got to roar like forest fire You've got to spread your light like blazes All across the sky Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 18:33:23 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: 10 desert island discs Laurent wrote: > Do you remember this radio program "desert island"? Sorry if it's been done > before on JMDL. > > I'd like to know what music JMDLers would take to a desert island, where you'd > be stuck for the rest of your life? > Please: no more than 1 album per artist. OK, I'm going to cheat, and sneakily toss out two or three other people's CD's to make room for mine, because I have to take more than one Joni, ie. all of them! But if push comes to shove then my list is (in no particular order after Her Royal Joniness): 1. Joni - Hejira 2. Carole King - Rhymes and Reasons 3. James Taylor - Live 4. Indigo Girls - Strange Fire 5. Bonnie Raitt - Road Tested 6. CSNY - Deja Vu 7. Shona Laing - Roadworks 8. Stevie Nicks - Trouble in Shangri-La 9. Melissa Etheridge - Your Little Secret 10. Stephen Stills - Stills Alone That was too hard, and now I feel guilty that I haven't included a whole lot of others, eg. Bob Dylan, Neil Young, Fleetwood Mac, Mamas and Papas, CPR, Manassas, Doors, Janis - OMG, I forgot Janis. OK, that's it. I'm not going. Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #436 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?