From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #432 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, September 23 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 432 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- happy birthdays njc ["Dolphie Bush" ] a salute to songwriters of the 60s and 70s - vljc [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: a salute to songwriters of the 60s and 70s - vljc ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: who called me??? (NJC) ["Suze Cameron" ] Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: a salute to songwriters of the 60s and 70s - NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] birthday ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: a salute to songwriters of the 60s and 70s - njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: muller is .... (njc) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Vietnam njc ["Kate Bennett" ] more happy birthdays ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: 3 Birthdays! njc ["Garret" ] Re: Subject: your favorite stars pay tribute to our nation's heroes njc [] RE: njc pitassi ["Pitassi, Mary" ] bette njc ["Dolphie Bush" ] Bob!!! and 78s??? [Anne Sandstrom ] Please watch this!!!! Taliban documentary viewing information (NJC) ["Kat] Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) ["Leslie Ross" ] slouching to war? [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: bette njc ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: bob muller!!!!!!!! njc ["Blair Fraipont" ] happy birthday (NJC) ["Steve Polifka" ] Re: bob muller!!!!!!!! njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: bob muller!!!!!!!! njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] telethon part 2 njc ["Kate Bennett" ] HB BOB (NJC) ["Steve Polifka" ] RE: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) ["Deb Messling" ] Re: America's TV special: the tribute to the 911 heros, njc ["Bill Pear] RE: NJC quote ["Deb Messling" ] Re: Taliban documentary viewing information (NJC) [Bruyere ] Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) ["Stephen Epstein" ] Re: NJC quote [Vince Lavieri ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:19:43 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: happy birthdays njc happy birthday to all. don't know you but I love Virgo's. mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 14:49:36 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: a salute to songwriters of the 60s and 70s - vljc A friend of mine was visiting from upstate New York this weekend. He has just begun a new job as head of the music department of a private school with students in grades 6 through 12. Anyway, we were sitting around listening to music last night and my friend told me that he is planning a concert in December with the school's chorus and asked me if I had any ideas for what he might do. Since many of the parents of these kids would have been teenagers and young adults during the 60s and 70s, I suggested that he put together a salute to the songwriters of that period. He loved the idea, and we immediately started compiling a list of some of the songwriters he should include. Here are some of the people we came up with: Joni (my first suggestion, of course) Lennon/McCartney Dylan Stevie Wonder Laura Nyro Otis Redding Holland, Dozier, Holland Leonard Cohen Bert Bachrach Jagger/Richards Jimmy Webb James Taylor I am sure there are more songwriters we didn't think of. Do you have any suggestions? Also, since this concert will take place in December, some ideas for holiday music written by 60s and 70s songwriters would also be helpful. Please keep in mind that the songs will be sung by kids who are in the 12-18 year-old range, and some songs may be inappropriate. (For example, I suggested "River" for a holiday song, but it was vetoed because the line, "He loved me so naughty, he made me weak in the knees.") Thanks! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 14:51:36 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) 45 - from Lady and the Tramp "The Siamese Cat Song" 45 which counts- Beatles "Lady Madonna" LP - The Doors "The Doors" favorite music from parents - anything by Louis Prima and Keely Smith sountrack to "South Pacific" Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:50:23 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: a salute to songwriters of the 60s and 70s - vljc Carole King - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 1:49 PM Subject: a salute to songwriters of the 60s and 70s - vljc > A friend of mine was visiting from upstate New York this weekend. He has just > begun a new job as head of the music department of a private school with > students in grades 6 through 12. > > Anyway, we were sitting around listening to music last night and my friend > told me that he is planning a concert in December with the school's chorus > and asked me if I had any ideas for what he might do. Since many of the > parents of these kids would have been teenagers and young adults during the > 60s and 70s, I suggested that he put together a salute to the songwriters of > that period. He loved the idea, and we immediately started compiling a list > of some of the songwriters he should include. Here are some of the people we > came up with: > > Joni (my first suggestion, of course) > Lennon/McCartney > Dylan > Stevie Wonder > Laura Nyro > Otis Redding > Holland, Dozier, Holland > Leonard Cohen > Bert Bachrach > Jagger/Richards > Jimmy Webb > James Taylor > > I am sure there are more songwriters we didn't think of. Do you have any > suggestions? Also, since this concert will take place in December, some ideas > for holiday music written by 60s and 70s songwriters would also be helpful. > Please keep in mind that the songs will be sung by kids who are in the 12-18 > year-old range, and some songs may be inappropriate. (For example, I > suggested "River" for a holiday song, but it was vetoed because the line, "He > loved me so naughty, he made me weak in the knees.") > > Thanks! > > --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 14:54:11 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: a salute to songwriters of the 60s and 70s - vljc In a message dated 9/23/01 2:50:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Murphycopy@aol.com writes: > Joni (my first suggestion, of course) > Lennon/McCartney > Dylan > Stevie Wonder > Laura Nyro > Otis Redding > Holland, Dozier, Holland > Leonard Cohen > Bert Bachrach > Jagger/Richards > Jimmy Webb > James Taylor > > I am sure there are more songwriters we didn't think of. Do you have any > suggestions? Also, since this concert will take place in December, some > ideas > for holiday music written by 60s and 70s songwriters would also be helpful. > I think Jackson Browne and Steve Goodman certainly belong on this list. One good suggestion for that group at that time would seem to be Lennon's "Happy Christmas/War Is Over." Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 11:37:54 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: birthday S T E V E P O L I F K A, A belated but heartfelt HAPPY BITHDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 15:01:33 -0400 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: Re: who called me??? (NJC) Marian wrote: >Somebody called me at home to wish me a happy birthday, but my answering >machine is very poor quality and I could not hear the name and could not >recognize the voice. Did somebody from JMDL call me? Marian! I can't believe after all these years and after meeting her in person you didn't recognize Joni's voice! *********wink!*********** Sue Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S. http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 15:19:14 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) << Also had that record "I'm a girl watcher" by ?????. >> That would be "The O'Kaysions", Mack...a one-hit wonder, but what a hit! Still gets lots of play down here in Beach Clubs. Bob NPIMH, "I'm a girl watcher, there goes one now...Mmm Mmm Mmm..." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 15:29:10 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: a salute to songwriters of the 60s and 70s - NJC << I am sure there are more songwriters we didn't think of. Do you have any suggestions? >> You did a nice job with your list, Bob...Carole King was justifiably added, maybe Marvin Gaye and/or Smoky Robinson? And probably Brian Wilson too. Bob NP: The Equations ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 12:18:17 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: birthday Happy Birthday Bob!!!!! ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 16:39:14 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: a salute to songwriters of the 60s and 70s - njc well, as 70's songwriters go, richard carpenter was pretty good. his sister sang a few of his xmas songs. really, no soundtrack of the 70's could be complete without one or two of his songs [sung by karen, natch]. and then CAROLE KING! don maclean, too. wally ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 12:45:20 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: a salute to songwriters of the 60s and 70s - vljc Here are some of the people we > came up with: > > Joni (my first suggestion, of course) > Lennon/McCartney > Dylan > Stevie Wonder > Laura Nyro > Otis Redding > Holland, Dozier, Holland > Leonard Cohen > Bert Bachrach > Jagger/Richards > Jimmy Webb > James Taylor > Carole King has already been mentioned. I would add: Carly Simon Paul Simon Leonard Cohen Neil Young (After the Goldrush would be cool) Bacharach/David Janis Ian Rickie Lee Jones To name a few. Mark E ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 16:47:53 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) my first 45 was ''don't be afraid'' by the carpenters. first 33 ''lady barbara'' by the herman hermits. other 33's and 45's i loved: ''the wings of time'', peter yarrow. ''a sad old kind of movie'', pickettywitch ''goodbye'', mary hopkin ''mrs. brwon you've got a lovely daughter'', the herman hermits. and later, ''live and let die'', by paul mccartney. i took this one to school when i was 11 and i played on the school's PS!!!! all of a sudden, all the classrooms were full of ''rock'' music [that was rock music to me]. they caught me and i got a suspension.... :-( wally ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 16:52:43 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: muller is .... (njc) ...... music incarnate! isn't it nice and so telling how most of us have chosen to say happy birthday to bob and write about our 1st singles in the same post? wally, a muller-head ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 14:58:56 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) I'll probably get killed for this one but he made me happy, and sad, and many other things with his words. Barry Manilow Mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wally Kairuz" To: "Dolphie Bush" ; "joni" Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 2:47 PM Subject: RE: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) > my first 45 was ''don't be afraid'' by the carpenters. first 33 ''lady > barbara'' by the herman hermits. other 33's and 45's i loved: > ''the wings of time'', peter yarrow. > ''a sad old kind of movie'', pickettywitch > ''goodbye'', mary hopkin > ''mrs. brwon you've got a lovely daughter'', the herman hermits. > > and later, ''live and let die'', by paul mccartney. i took this one to > school when i was 11 and i played on the school's PS!!!! all of a sudden, > all the classrooms were full of ''rock'' music [that was rock music to me]. > they caught me and i got a suspension.... :-( > wally ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 12:48:32 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: your favorite stars pay tribute to our nation's heroes njc I missed the first part. Who did I miss singing what? I got home to turn on the TV to Neil Young singing Imagine. Absolutely stunning. The Pink Floyd song was really really good. I forget who sang it...I loved Billy Joel singing New York State of Mind. That is just such a great song. I had never heard the song that Sheryl Crow sang...i wondered if she might have just written it...safe & sound... Mariah Carey...I don't know, there is too much Divahood about her & I just care for Divas. However, I was really moved by Celine Dion's God Bless America. She appeared to leave her Divahood at the door. I thought it was meaningful that a Canadian sang God Bless America (or is she a US citizen now?). I was not as moved by Paul Simon. I love Bridge Over Troubled Water. I think it was because I was missing Garfunkel. If there ever was a time & a song for them to sing together this was it. I enjoyed Willy singing America the Beautiful. That is my favorite patriotic song. I am glad they didn't sing the Star Spangled Banner. I don't care for that song at all. BTW, what was up with Clint Eastwood? ...his coat was all bulgy & weird... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 22:47:05 +0200 From: "Marian" Subject: Re: who called me??? (NJC) Oh my god! ROTFL!!!! Marian marian@jmdl.com http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/guitar.htm - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suze Cameron" To: "Marian" Cc: Sent: 23 September 2001 9:01 PM Subject: Re: who called me??? (NJC) > > Marian wrote: > >Somebody called me at home to wish me a happy birthday, but my answering > >machine is very poor quality and I could not hear the name and could not > >recognize the voice. Did somebody from JMDL call me? > > Marian! I can't believe after all these years and after meeting her in person you > didn't recognize Joni's voice! > > *********wink!*********** > > Sue > > > Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S. > http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 16:47:36 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: muller is .... (njc) << isn't it nice and so telling how most of us have chosen to say happy birthday to bob and write about our 1st singles in the same post? >> And appropriate considering my 'slutty' behavior! And I loved your Herman's Hermits songs too, Wally, I just wasn't old enough to buy records back then! ;~) Bob NP: Counting Crows, "Caravan" (live) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:28:50 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Vietnam njc Mike asked, "When did the anti-Vietnam movement begin, did it make any real difference and how long did it take to make that difference? " I remember strong anti-Vietnam war sentiment in 1966. I think it made a huge difference, but it took years to make that difference. When the draft went into effect & I was old enough to do so, I became active in the antiwar protest movement. We had a president who was corrupt & paranoid. I remember feeling that he & his vice president believed me & those like me to be his enemy. The country was truly split & it felt like a civil war at times. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:28:55 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: more happy birthdays To the 2 Marys! ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 21:44:52 +0100 From: "Garret" Subject: Re: 3 Birthdays! njc September certainly is a birthday month. Perhaps Wally K, our very own birthday fairy, can tell us which month has the most birthdays among JMDL members. Birthday wishes to Mary Pitassi,Steve Polifka,and Bob Muller, i hope ye all had a great day:-) Love and Luck GARRET ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 16:50:29 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: your favorite stars pay tribute to our nation's heroes njc << BTW, what was up with Clint Eastwood? ...his coat was all bulgy & weird... >> Yes, what a difference it makes when the celebs don't have their dressers to look after them! And I don't mean anything mean-spirited by that, my hat's off to ALL who volunteered their time and checked their egos (and entourages) at the door! Bob, dressing himself for about 40 years now... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 15:59:49 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: RE: njc pitassi Wally: Tell your good friend the Birthday Fairy that I thank him/her profusely for the recent birthday wishes. And as far as the timing is concerned: all is forgiven. Yes, my birthday is indeed August 26 (we decline to state publicly the year of my birth), but Sept. 25 will mark the fifth anniversary of my uninterrupted subscription to the JMDL. Your announcement arrived just in time for that! And thanks as well for your concern about my well-being. However, I do not live in the NYC area. Although my thoughts, like those of most if not all of the other listers, have visited there often in the past 12 days, I'm safe and sound in my adopted hometown of Madison, Wisconsin. So I very much appreciate the good wishes of Wally and all who have written. I also couldn't help thinking that some folks may not be terribly happy with me when they read things I am contemplating writing to the list (warning: political content!) in the next week or so. And yet it's a tribute to the sheer continuity of this community that, although I realize that people do change, there are those out there who'd be able to take a pretty good stab of articulating what those thoughts may be before I even have the chance to do so. It's also a tribute to the list that I'm willing to lay odds that those who disagree with me will do so respectfully, and in a way that promotes further dialogue and understanding on these hard, hard issues. What can I say? This is the best darn cyber-cafe there ever was. August 30, 1996-August 30, 2001, and counting: happy birthday to us. Take care, all of you, Mary P. from Madison, WI, USA. - -----Original Message----- From: Wally Kairuz [mailto:wallykai@fibertel.com.ar] Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 12:44 AM To: Pitassi, Mary; jmdl Subject: njc pitassi mary pitassi hasn't replied and she lives in the ny area. now i'm getting worried. mary, if you are there, please say hi. if anybody is in touch with mary, let me know. wally ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 16:00:31 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: bette njc Just watched Bette Midler on the Prayer service currently going on. Now there is a person who has earned and deserves to be called "star" Mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 17:05:05 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: Bob!!! and 78s??? HAPPY ----ING BIRTHDAY, BOB!!! And my first records were my grandmother's 78s. We played them on an old "hi-fi." They were all classical recordings. The needle scratched the hell out of them, as I recall. And you thought YOU were old :-) lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:49:10 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Please watch this!!!! Taliban documentary viewing information (NJC) I saw this last night. I agree, I urge everyone to watch this. Be prepared, it is extremely disturbing. This is not for children to watch. The woman who did this documentary was incredibly courageous, as are the Afghanistan woman in the resistance movement. The journalist risked her life many many many times during the covert filming of this documentary. Does anyone know when this was filmed? " the Taliban documentary, called "beneath the veil" is being re-broadcast at 7 PM EST tonight on CNN. Here's a link: http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/presents/ ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 21:13:38 +0000 From: "Leslie Ross" Subject: Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) Good Grief My first 45 was 'Me and you and a dog named Boo' by Lobo......how can I be remembering this... ...when my first 33 1/3 was 'Black Sabbath' by Black Sabbath. ...yes, well, things got better and I was young, very young. Les (London) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 16:18:03 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) Leslie, nothing to apologize for. that tune, boo, said so many things in its simplicity. mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leslie Ross" To: Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 4:13 PM Subject: Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) > Good Grief > > My first 45 was 'Me and you and a dog named Boo' by Lobo......how can I be > remembering this... > ...when my first 33 1/3 was 'Black Sabbath' by Black Sabbath. > > ...yes, well, things got better and I was young, very young. > > Les (London) > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 21:24:56 +0000 From: "Leslie Ross" Subject: Re: bob muller!!!!!!!! njc Happy Birthday Bob! I hope you had a great day. ....let's hear it everyone, Bob Muller! Yaaaaaay! Les (London) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 17:31:14 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: slouching to war? So, am I the only one who seems to be spending most of my waking hours actually trying to figure out how to solve this thing? (Or is that really common?) I keep thinking there's a strategy we haven't thought of. And I keep trying to figure out what that might be. I'm also wondering how we can educate ourselves against such attacks. One thought I have is that if we all made an effort to know our neighbors and become real communities again, that's a pretty good weapon. It's probably one of the most effective weapons the terrorists themselves use. (They take it to extremes - you have to be related or come from the same town to be in a cell.) Anyway, that's the beginning of a thought. I'll be interested to hear others - positive ways we can protect ourselves and how to carry out the ideas on a day to day basis. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 14:36:46 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: bette njc > Just watched Bette Midler on the Prayer service currently going on. Now there > is a person who has earned and deserves to be called "star" > > Mack Yes she does, Mack. She truly is one. Her rendition of 'Wind Beneath My Wings' really got the waterworks going for me and for many people in Yankee stadium. She was obviously thanking all of the heroes of the past 12 days. She was also thanking NYC and trying to give them something back for giving her her start. She was shouting 'thank you, thank you!' during the song and shouted her thanks to NYC at the end. There have been many moments in this service that have been very moving. The other one that really got to me, though was the Harlem Boy & Girl Choir singing 'We Shall Overcome.' People were standing up and holding hands. There is still hope in the world, people. We all have to hold on to it as tightly as we can. Peace & Love To All, Mark E ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 18:03:06 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: bob muller!!!!!!!! njc Yes, A big happy Birthdayt To BOB. By the way, Bob, I got the Covers 21 and it is great.. I just love the Heavy Metal version of "this flight tonite" ... A good cd for parties. With Much respect and care, Blair _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 17:14:47 -0500 From: "Steve Polifka" Subject: happy birthday (NJC) To all of you who whished me a Happy Birthday! You guys are so great! I arrived home from a wonderful day in Chicago to find these great messages that made me laugh, thank you! Coming home was difficult; I spent Saturday with a new friend Ron, who took me to The Blue Man Group- I strongly urge you to see them-Boston, NYC, Chicago and Las Vegas- they are funny, unusual, compelling and irresistable! LOL! When I asked for them to autograph my CD, one of them kissed it, leaving a BLUE lip print for me-way too funny! Shopping, walking, staying at the Palmer House, eating at a corner cafe restaurant on the street in 70 plus degree weather- it was a dream come true... Once again, thanks for all of your good energy, I got it! Hugs, Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 18:25:59 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: bob muller!!!!!!!! njc << By the way, Bob, I got the Covers 21 and it is great.. I just love the Heavy Metal version of "this flight tonite" ... A good cd for parties. >> That's the spirit, Blair! Keep those covers spinning, and you'll be the hit of the party & the chicks and cool cats will be beating a path to your door! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 18:28:29 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: bob muller!!!!!!!! njc << ....let's hear it everyone, Bob Muller! Yaaaaaay! >> Oh my heavens...I didn't have much to do with it anyway, it was all my parent's doing! All I can say is that Christmas of 1956 must have been a good one for them! :~) Such enthusiasm, Les...one would think your flat was a fire! ;~D Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 15:10:57 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: telethon part 2 njc I forgot to mention Sting singing "Fragile". One of the most beautiful songs ever written, imho. I was wondering if Don Henley might sing "In a New York Minute". That might have been too intense though. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 17:36:48 -0500 From: "Steve Polifka" Subject: HB BOB (NJC) Hey Birthday Bob! My wish for you is that you will meet a-oops, sorry! That was my wish! Magic is all around you, Bob! I lknow you will have a spectacular Birthday! Hugs from the Midwest, Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 18:40:29 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) Oh my god - that's MY first record! A yellow record, as I recall. > 45 - from Lady and the Tramp "The Siamese Cat Song" As to 33 1/3, the middle-age brain fails me, but could be "Surrealistic Pillow" or "Whipped Cream and Other Delights." - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling =^..^= - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 17:04:00 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) > my first 45 was ''don't be afraid'' by the carpenters. first 33 ''lady > barbara'' by the herman hermits. other 33's and 45's i loved: > ''the wings of time'', peter yarrow. > ''a sad old kind of movie'', pickettywitch > ''goodbye'', mary hopkin I loved this song too! I wonder whatever happened to Mary Hopkin? Those were the days, my friend.... Mark E ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 01:09:01 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) 33 1/3 : The Rescuers OST (childhood), Into The Gap - Thompson Twins (teenager) 45 : E.T. Theme - John Williams, What Is Love? - Howard Jones ..and a big, happy f***ing birthday to everyone concerned today :-) Jason. http://www.the-slipstream.co.uk. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 20:21:40 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC quote This paraphrase from Robert Holliston is always very powerful: "When they came for the Jews, I didn't intervene because I wasn't a Jew; When they came for the Catholics, I didn't intervene because I wasn't a Catholic; When they came for the gypsies, I didn't intervene because I wasn't a gypsy; When they came for me, there was nobody left to intervene." Robert identified the speaker as a survivor of the Third Reich. Indeed, Pastor Martin Neimoller spent ten years in Dachau. He is the only known person to have every told Hitler off to his face. Neimoller was wiretapped, arrested, brought into Hitler, Hitler said, did you say this, and Neimoller said, I not only said that but... The actual quite also spoke of trade unionists and communists, and not gypsies, but certainly the essence of the quote, by Pastor Neimoller, is on point. Here it is: In Germany, the Nazis first came for the Communists, And I didn't speak up Because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, And I did not speak up Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, And I didn't speak up Because I wasn't a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, And I was a Protestant So I didn't speak up. Then they came for ME By that time There was no one to speak up for anyone. To make sure this doesn't happen again, the injustice To anyone Anywhere Must be the concern of Everyone Everywhere. A good review of the situation of Niemoller's context is at http://www.visi.com/~contra_m/cm/reviews/cm13_rev_witness.html The parallel to events of today is of course not exact. I am a lifelong student of Niemoller's work - the witness of the Confessing Church of Germany and the Barmen Declaration of that church movement - are major reasons that I am a pastor (and a Christian) today. Neimoller protested the exalting the demands of state over the demands of the Gospel. Neimoller was no pacifist but he protested the attempt to make the state into a god that rivaled or surpassed our calling from God. Neimoller was vigorously opposed to the Nazi/German (for the Nazis didn't do it alone, they had the support of the nation who blamed the Jews for their woes) treatment of the Jews, and this was early on, in fact, as soon as Hitler took power in 1933, not later when Holocaust began. Well before Kristelnacht, Neimoller had been jailed. Were Neimoller with us today, I suspect he'd be speaking against hatred on Muslims in this nation, against blaming Islam for these days. He would applaud those who have spoken against such blaming. So for example, in my opinion, he would have liked Bush's statements on Muslim Americans. I think he would have very wary of the demonizing of the Taliban that took place in the same speech. Neimoller also would not have use for the Taliban but remind that the demonizing of the religious/political leaders of a people is the first step to the evils that follow. Hence, the quote... Neimoller would be zealous to protect civil liberties since the chipping away of those is the path to "taking away" those who the nation/culture/society deems a threat. Thus Neimoller, in my opinion, would have abhorred the talk by Bush and Ashcroft on proposals on civil liberties. The loss of freedom of information, Neimoller would have fought (and did fight) with all of his life since it is when the freedom of information is surpressed that the "taking away" of people may occur. All of our actions, especially the actions of a nation, must be done in the light as the only protection we have from abuse. The production of means of information to reveal every action of the Nazi regime was a great activity of the Confessing Church. But to go beyond that is to say more than we can say, as I understand his teachings. Neimoller was not a pacifist but he would be very reluctant to use military power to strike. During the anti-nuclear movement for example in the 1980s, when Pastor Neimoller was still with us, he was loathe to be involved in either way. But his words and teachings were apt to the situation in Salvador and Nicaragua, in Brazil, Chile, and Argentina, wherever there are "disappeared" people in the name of national security. They also were applicable to the Soviet Union and an example of why many Christian peace activists (such as myself) were devoutly anti-Soviet. As a student of Neimoller, and Bonhoeffer and the Confessing Church, I really cannot find things there on war and vengeance that apply to this situation, much as I would love to. I am always pleased when Martin Niemoller's words and life are recalled, thank you Robert Holliston! This is probably more than anyone ever wanted to know about Martin Neimoller, but it puts me in a good frame of mind as I finish this before I leave for worship and a church conference. (the Rev Vince) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 01:14:00 +0100 From: "Bill Pearson" Subject: Re: America's TV special: the tribute to the 911 heros, njc It was repeated here(UK)tonight(Sun), so I guess you'll get it again soon anyway. One thing though, for those who saw it. Who was the guy on just before Wyclef? Bill > << If someone can transfer UK to US, no problem. >> > > I can do that, Bill...so I'll let you know. Hopefully my Springsteen friend > (in town) got it as well. > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 20:44:54 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: NJC quote I guess my question is, would Neimoller have advocated military action against the Taliban, based on their support of terrorism abroad and their brutal treatment of dissidents at home? You say Neimoller was "no pacifist." Did he support military action against Nazi Germany? If he supported the war against Nazism, I find it hard to believe he would not support war against the Taliban. > Neimoller was no pacifist but he protested the attempt > to make the state into a god that rivaled or surpassed our calling from > God. > > Neimoller was vigorously opposed to the Nazi/German (for the Nazis > didn't do it alone, they had the support of the nation who blamed the > Jews for their woes) treatment of the Jews, - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling =^..^= - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 20:49:17 -0400 From: Bruyere Subject: Re: Taliban documentary viewing information (NJC) I watched this documentary tonight. Saira Shah (and her crew) was truly brave to do this. The Taliban consists of nothing but madmen. Heather At 12:32 PM 9/23/01 -0400, TimandMaryPowers@aol.com wrote: >Just in case anyone thinks I'm making this stuff up, the Taliban documentary, >called "beneath the veil" is being re-broadcast at 7 PM EST tonight on CNN. >Here's a link: > >http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/presents/ > >Mary ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 21:59:59 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) oh mark! i have everything on cd!!!! she is still singing and believe it or not there's a fan page on the net run by a guy in the netherlands. maybe john van tiel in disguise? wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Mark or Travis Enviado el: Domingo, 23 de Septiembre de 2001 09:04 p.m. Para: Wally Kairuz; Dolphie Bush; joni Asunto: Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) > ''goodbye'', mary hopkin I loved this song too! I wonder whatever happened to Mary Hopkin? Those were the days, my friend.... Mark E ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 18:13:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Tyler Hewitt Subject: Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) first 45-can't remember first lp-Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, Elton John ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 21:25:50 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Benefit concert: Songs for Sami,Gregg Cagno featured njc Today I went to a benefit concert & auction for a little girl named Samantha Rose who has cancer. Despite all this child has gone through, she appears to be doing very well and was able to attend the benefit today, and well needless to say I fell in love. She'll be admitted for cycle 5 of her chemotherapy in a few days. Please include her in your prayers and positive thoughts. There was lots of live music. Amongst those featured, was our very own Gregg Cagno who sang songs for Sami. Bless your great big heart Gregg. Rose in NJ rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 21:40:27 EDT From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: Re: the march toward war...(NJC) Roberto's quote reminde me of Patty Smith: Men knew it was wrong, but they looked away. Roberto wrote: > Now, I'm reminded - chillingly - of that > famous quote from a survivor of the Third Reich: "When they came for the > Jews, I didn't intervene because I wasn't a Jew; When they came for the > Catholics, I didn't intervene because I wasn't a Catholic... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 21:48:18 EDT From: Reuben3rd@aol.com Subject: Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) First 33/3 I HAD: Make Way For Dionne Warwick First 33/3 that I BOUGHT: Tracey Ullmann-You Broke My Heart In 17 Places First 45: We Don't Need Another Hero (Thunderdome) -Tina Turner Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 21:30:00 -0400 From: Yael Harlap Subject: birthdays NJC I really suck at wishing happy birthday to folks on the list, but we have such a mass of 'em how can I but chime in? Happy Birthday to all and to all a good night! (as I go off to do my schoolwork - who'd have thought master's level classes would have so much more work than doctoral level classes, and who'd have thought 2 credit classes would have more work than 3 credit classes?) Feeling a little like Alice in Wonderland, though with a lot less excitement, Yael ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 22:11:26 -0400 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) I still remember listening to 78's as a child- Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairies comes to mind! can't recall my first 45, but first Lp was either Chubby Checker, The Twist, or a compilation featuring the Ventures and others of that time. Am I aging myself here? Best, Stephen in Vancouver NP: Roy Nathanson- Fire at Keaton's Bar and Grill- know this one Bob M? Elvis content! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 22:21:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: 3 Birthdays! njc - --- Janet Hess wrote: > OK, wait a minute, I wanna play too. This here old > fart turned 53 on > Tuesday. ... > Janet and Deanna Ivy the Wonderkitty, who was so > cute on Tuesday when she > woke me up while wearing that silly party hat and > singing "Happy Birthday" Happy birthday, Janet, you old fart you! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 22:24:14 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: NJC quote Neimoller did not support war, no. Deb Messling asks some excellent questions and she should have been in some of seminary seminars! > I guess my question is, would Neimoller have advocated military action > against the Taliban, based on > their support of terrorism abroad and their brutal treatment of dissidents > at home? You say Neimoller was "no pacifist." Did he support military > action against Nazi Germany? If he supported the war against Nazism, I find > it hard to believe he would not support war against the Taliban. I answer as a Neimoller student, not the definitive scholar, but a student since maybe 1972, of Neimoller, Bonhoeffer, and the Confessing Church and the ringing Barmen Declaration in its resistance to Hitler, and as a student since the early 1960s of Shoah (the Holocaust). Also as a student of England's Bishop George Chichester Bell and the emergence of the World Council of Churches from Faith and Order, through which Bishop Bell was Bonhoeffer's conduit to the Allies and Allied intelligence prior to that being cut off just before the Admiral Canaris/General Oster conspiracy against Hitler. Everything that I say is based on my understanding of Neimoller and the situation and is not offered in any spirit other than that. Neimoller did not support military action (war) against the Nazi regime. He felt opposition internally, political opposition, was the means to oppose and bring down the Hitler regime, which came to power through the political system. Once the war began, and Holocaust began, Neimoller was in Dachau, out of the loop on opposition to Hitler. For all of Neimoller's contemporaries, the response to Hitler must be German because Hitler arose in Germany. The German conspiracies to assassinate Hitler and install a nonNazi government were in earnest. They also all misfired on the wildest misfortune. The 20 July 1944 assassination attempt, for example, failed because minutes before the attachi case bomb went off, Hitler moved it from one side of the room to the other, beneath the legs of a heavy wooden table. That table saved him from the full impact of the blast and he was only moderately injured, not killed. For a pacifist like Bonhoeffer to be involved in the assassination attempts, which he was, was a major area of study of mine in seminary and beyond, to the present day. Bonhoeffer laid out a theology that centered Christ in reality and posed the question of what is the penultimate situation, what is the ultimate situation. In the ultimate situation, which is be definition an extraordinarily rare moment, is when the whole of ethics pales before an evil of such overwhelming monstrosity and there being no other way to end this evil, a Christian could go beyond the ethical boundaries and commit an ultimate act. Holocaust was an ultimate situation. Holocaust was the ultimate situation not (merely) because of numbers but because of its intent - to destroy an entire people. This took it from beyond the usual human depravity, the penultimate situation, which calls for non-violent resistance, i.e., Bonhoeffer's teacher Gandhi's nonviolent resistance to the British raj and Martin Luther King's nonviolence in the face of US racism . Very clearly the Taliban would not be a cause for military, armed opposition from our government. It fails every test. The Taliban has not attacked the US. The Taliban has asked for proof of bin Laden's guilt and has been supplied none. The Taliban also says that it has no idea where bin Laden is. (Could our government produce people in hiding? Our government refused for years to turn over the killers of the Chilean ambassador (Latillier, spelling?) saying we had no idea where they were and alternately we had no proof supplied to us.) The Taliban is being vilified, demonized. Yes, the facts of the Taliban regime are awful. So are the facts of many governments that we support - oh, and that would include the Taliban. We overlook massive human rights violations in many parts of the world. To selectively approve of violence against a government because we do not like that government is an act of aggression that Neimoller and any Christian ethicist that I know would say is clear on its face, morally wrong. Neimoller would point to the contradictions: our rate of execution is higher, far higher, than the Taliban's. Our incarceration rates are far higher. Our drug use, promiscuity, and sexually transmitted disease rates are all higher than in Afghanistan. The ethical response is to stop our own levels of executions, including our executions for crimes committed by minors and by the mentally impaired. The ethical response would be to seek justice and deliverance from oppression of our own poor, and address the problems that lead to crime, drug use, etc. And to do this in earnest in our country and for others. Neimoller clearly recognized the tactic of demonizing the other in order to kill them. And in the face of the Taliban, it would have to be asked, why did this country do nothing in the face of terrorism in Chiapas, Timor, Bosnia, Uganda, especially Rwanda, Ireland, all in the past ten year? And why has this particular administration stated its noninvolvement with terrorism in the Middle East? Neimoller would have insisted on certain ethical principles on which we act. It cannot be a consumer ethics, not an ethics we pick and choose. We cannot say, Rwanda, ok, you kill 600,000 to 800,000 of your own people and we will do nothing, China, we will do business with you, its good business, but the Taliban, oh there we must go to war because it is a brutal regime. The moral equivalence is out of whack and thus betrays the claims of concern for human rights. So I can conclude from using the Neimoller theological process that there is no way that he would support violence against the Taliban. In fact, based on his sensitivity to the demonization of the other when we want to blame, I suggest he'd have strong problems with the current anti taliban stuff going on. Prior to 11 September, there were very few people in this country who raised concerns about the Taliban - one of them incidentally Ann Landers - so it is clear that this current interest in the Taliban and going to war with them was out of a desire for revenge for the acts of terrorists. And revenge is not an ethical option. The search for vengeance is not a reason that ethics can justify for going to war, at least Christian ethics. And in taking the situation as a whole, as ethics requires, the blame for the Taliban being in power rests partially to squarely (you pick the range) on the US for it was the US that supplied weapons of war and military aid to the mujadeen (including Stinger missiles) because they were the enemies of our enemies (the USSR), This makes us - makes the US - - complicit in the evil. And as in the speech last Thursday by Bush made very clear that we are again in the business of choosing friends and enemies, what new friends, because they are enemies of our enemies, will we give military aid to, only to find out later what a major mistake that was? And of course war against the Taliban falls on any theory of war in that they have not attacked us nor have the people of Afghanistan attacked us. Neimoller would say that we have much to clean up of our act and begin to treat our people and the world with a concern for human rights to justify our own words at this time. Neimoller would also recoil at the terrorism, but not be surprised in that he saw so much violence in his life. He would cry with the victims and their families and urge the world to seek justice and respect of peoples and look to the only source of good, which is God, who teaches respect for all people, as our response to this evil. That leaves the question of bin Laden. Not Neimoller, but his peers, particularly Bonhoeffer, did participate in the (failed) assassination attempts on Hitler. But Hitler was the head of a state and controlled the powers of the state for the commitment of ultimate evil. That does not apply to bin Laden. Neimoller has left us no writings that talk about acts against an individual terrorist, or a small group of them. I would suggest using the analysis of the Confessing Church that the acts of bin Laden do not rise to the ultimate level; horrific though they are, the murder of the 600,000-800,000 in the mid 1990s in which all the nations of the world did nothing, that was a greater act of terrorism, 6,000 was a slow day there, and thus the horrors of NY/Pentagon/PA must be looked at in the context of terrorism. Since there is no common source for these acts of terror, the problem of the conditions and situations that give rise to terrorism - hatred, perceived injustice, perceived exploitation of people and resources - these must be studied to put an end to terrorism. Neimoller being appalled at bin Laden and having lived through the selection of enemies by the government of his day (especially in the Reichstag fire, for which the German government picked a culprit for political reasons who was innocent), would suggest that we must prove if it is bin Laden who is responsible, and lay that evidence out before the world. Then let the world move in concert. Other governments are concerned with bin Laden and terrorism. The Saudis hate him (the feeling is mutual), Malaysia is worried about its twin towers, Jordan would love to be on our side, China wants no terrorism on its soil from that source, India despises bin Laden, etc. etc. etc. By bringing the evidence to the world, a sober laying out of evidence say at the United Nations, a world consensus would form and as an international outlaw with no place of refuge, his apprehension and trial in the Hague would be far more likely, with the benefit of no war. Neimoller would tell you to center on reality. We go to war against the Taliban, wrong for all the reasons that his theology and ethics would hold, this war would violate the principle of reality - it would inflame the Islamic world against us. The "lay out the evidence to the world" scenario would allow the Islamic world to come to our side of the table. The choice is "war" versus "no war" to achieve the desired result of apprehension and trial of bin Laden. The Christian ethical obligation is clear, Neimoller would say. Sorry this is long. It is not often that I get to wrote a short paper on ethics and I apologize for any poor wording as I am a bit rusty, but I am trusting that I followed the process with integrity. I am getting nostalgic for seminary when we would spend weeks drawing out the possibilities that lay into any ethical question. And what seems a dry analysis is no way minus copious tears for the victims of last Tuesday, and their families. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #432 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?