From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #431 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, September 23 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 431 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: September 23 [les@jmdl.com] Today's Articles: September 23 [les@jmdl.com] Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Re: about "proof" (njc) ["Kakki" ] habbee birdday bob... ["shane mattison" ] bag balm (njc) ["shane mattison" ] RE: bag balm (njc) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Sisotowbell ["Paul Castle" ] your favorite stars pay tribute to our nation's heroes [FredNow@aol.com] Chicago (NJC) [Coyote4Joni@aol.com] RE: the march toward war...(NJC) ["Deb Messling" ] Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) [Coyote4Joni@aol.com] Re: the march toward war...(NJC) ["Robert Holliston" ] Re: the march toward war...(NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Today, football and... njc ["Suze Cameron" <] NJC Re: Chomsky lives... ["Mike Pritchard" ] NJC Re: K/K/B debate ["Mike Pritchard" ] Happy(s) Birthday(s) [Catherine McKay ] Taliban - warning graphic (NJC) [TimandMaryPowers@aol.com] Happy Birthday Bob/1st records (njc) ["William Burnworth" ] Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) [Kammass@aol.com] Re: 3 Birthdays! njc [Janet Hess ] Birthday ["Stephen Epstein" ] Re: bob muller!!!!!!!! njc [Bruyere ] Happy Birthdays! [Coyote4Joni@aol.com] Re: America's TV special: the tribute to the 911 heros, njc [SCJoniGuy@] Re: the march toward war...(NJC) ["Stephen Epstein" ] RE: the march toward war...(NJC) [Bruyere ] Re: about "proof" (njc) ["J. R. Mills" ] Re: Taliban documentary viewing information (NJC) [TimandMaryPowers@aol.c] Ric's note (njc) [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Re: Jerry "Tax Free" Falwell (njc) [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Re: bob muller!!!!!!!! njc ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Taliban documentary viewing information (NJC) [Bruyere ] Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) ["Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) Leslie wrote: > You always remember your first. I've not been taking much ghinko recently but I think my first (78!!) was "Never Do a Tango with an Eskimo" by Alma Cogan, my first EP was the Beach Boys 'Surfin' Safari' and my first LP was the film soundtrack of 'Oklahoma'. How about your favourite song from your parents record collection? Mine was a scratchy old 78 of Dinah Shore singing 'Smoke Gets in Your Eyes' - still my favourite version of this song today. PaulC PS My parents were also a big fans of Fats Waller and The Inkspots so 'Feets Too Big' and 'Don't Get Around Much Any More' would be a close second and third. npimh: "Up in Harlem at a table for two There sits four of us - me, your big feet and you" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 19:38:40 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: bob muller!!!!!!!! njc > happy birthday, bob! now leave that smurf doll alone, boy! > lots of love, > wally and the BF Happy birthday, Bob! I hope it's a very happy one! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 23:53:34 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: about "proof" (njc) Mark E, Sherelle, Shane, Evian and others who have written - thank you. I may be too simplistic for some people around here, but this tragedy transcends politics to me. That doesn't mean that people shouldn't politicize it if they want to, dissent it if they want to, be a pacifist if they want to. Politics is not a religion to me and I will never let anyone coerce me to make it so. I never called for vengence or bloody war and if my remarks were interpreted that way, I did not mean that. I said how literally sick I was at the first inkling of military action and how this is a hellish situation we are in. Other expressed the same concerns that I have and yet I am the one singled out and attacked. I think I know the reason and it really scares me. Ironically, I agree in principle with many of the thoughts expressed by Ric. However, we are being attacked and I am not suicidal. When it's life or death I don't care about analyzing or blaming. I am offended by journalists who had to leap to blame at a time when people were still deeply in shock in this country. They are entitled to do what they want but I don't find them compassionate and I felt compassion was what was more important at this time. Just an emotional response, not a perfectly constructed political one. Everyone I work with is fucked up, the lawyers, everyone. They are bringing in a psychologist to work next week. Everyone is having nightmares and is not functioning well at all. We are getting several official FBI reports each day about warnings of possible attacks at the movie studios, the oil refineries, the nuclear power plants and our water supplies in L.A. and California. I've been amazed at all the national and international authorities who are so quickly now rounding up so many of the terrorists. They are finding all kinds of plans on them, including plots for L.A. and airline tickets for L.A. A friend of mine had plans to go to a gathering in New York before the tragedy. He refused to change his plans and actually felt compelled to go there, to just be there. Last night he talked to me on the phone for 2 hours relating what he saw and experienced. It is so horrible I cannot even describe it. What the people are going through there can never be imagined. It is unspeakably tragic and horrible. There is a long wall along the street covered with hundreds, probably thousands of photos of people who are missing. Their relatives are walking around handing out photo flyers asking people if they have seen them. I am blown away by the courage of people like Debra, Patrick, Kay and others to try to relate some of it to us. I know that there is not much I can do to comfort them, but I hope they know my heart is breaking for them and I hope they can heal from this. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 02:05:42 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: habbee birdday bob... habbee birday bob... habbe birday steve... 'an yousotherthreeearlieranmyexwifetoo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 02:09:47 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: bag balm (njc) maybe we've forgotten all about bag balm... i'm sure we need bag balm... may the skies rain down bag balm... ma griffe ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 04:57:26 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: bag balm (njc) whassat???? wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de shane mattison Enviado el: Domingo, 23 de Septiembre de 2001 05:10 a.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: bag balm (njc) maybe we've forgotten all about bag balm... i'm sure we need bag balm... may the skies rain down bag balm... ma griffe ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 09:41:43 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Sisotowbell I know some here will say "keep up, Paul", but I've only recently discovered that "Sisotowbell Lane" stands for "somehow in spite of trouble ours will be everlasting love." Gene Shay's 1968 interview, highlighted by Les this month on jmdl.com, has Joni discussing her mythological acronyms - characters "big enough to float out of the guitar sound hole". A good link for the FAQ http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/6809wmmr.cfm Gene Shay was also interviewed by Karen for the new bio. I must admit that his relationship with Joni is the one I'd have probably loved the most for myself (other than being in her band, of course!) PaulC (Paul an undoubtedly little Castle) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 06:08:51 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: your favorite stars pay tribute to our nation's heroes Thankfully, it was much better than I feared it might be. My favorites: Stevie Wonder! Stevie Wonder! Stevie Wonder! -- that guy can still SING! The master of melisma! Neil Young, "Imagine" -- I was so glad someone did it, and Neil turned out to be a surprisingly great choice ... he did it proud. Sheryl Crow -- don't know the song, but I loved it ... full of mystery, great rhythm loop, stark piano ... she sang great and the background singers sang great, and the mighty, masterful Steve Jordan played great on drums! Alicia Keyes -- what *is* that song? its name is on the tip of my ear ... who wrote/sang it? it's got such a cool harmonic turnaround, so oblique ... anyway, she sang and played great, and did in fact remind me of early Aretha in that. Sting -- such a simple, beautiful tune, so understated in delivery, so fragile, so apt. Paul Simon -- dug the middle-eastern tinged, anti-anthem version of Bridge Over Troubled Water (would have been nice to hear Artie's sweet voice, too). Tom Petty -- man, that guy rocks smart! Really, pretty much everyone sounded good ... Billy Joel, Bon Jovi, U2, Pearl Jam, Limp Bizkit/Goo Goo Dolls, Springsteen, Dixie Chicks, Dave Matthews ... and soulful Willie Nelson singing all possible verses of our school room anthem. A good selection ... could have been even better with the addition: Paul, George, Ringo James Taylor Shawn Colvin Ray Charles Aretha CSN Dylan Joni, always Joni. - -Fred Simon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 06:47:38 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Chicago (NJC) Greetings Everyone: Last night, I saw Chicago at the Greek. It was my second time to see them and it was totally different. The first time was at Anaheim Stadium in the mid-1970s when they toured with the Beach Boys. I was there for the latter. Not being a real fan of theirs, I was wondering if anyone on the list was familiar with their history. They put on a decent show, I'd give it a 7 of 10. Some real toe-tappers and the obligatory drum solo by a drummer from Laguna Beach. The lead singer sure sounded like the original main vocalist, but wasn't. It was weird. However, he didn't play a major role in the concert, except singing, and playing guitar. When introduced, the name wasn't familiar. The keyboardist, who seemed to be an original band member, said he was from San Diego. He also introduced Champlan (sp?) who I do recall, joined the band in the early 1980s. I always assumed he was from the Sons of Champlan - who made some good music in the 1970s. There was an awesome guitarist, a guy young enough to be the original band members' son. He was very easy on the eyes and his name was Keith from Richmond, VA. Anywho, there seemed to be several original band members there - mostly the brass players and one keyboardist. They were treated with reverence and each had a moment in the spotlight. I thought it was cool that they donated 1,500 tickets to Los Angeles firefighters, police department, and the Red Cross as a tribute to those in NYC. There were some emotional moments. I just don't know a thing about this group and was wondering if any of my dear correspondents knew much about them. They seem to be touring as a *corporation* hiring new employees as needed. But, I did see some of the original magic they created. No regrets, Coyote Rick Casa Alegre Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 06:53:41 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: the march toward war...(NJC) If you want the kind of proof demanded in a US court of law, you're not going to get it. For god's sake, nobody is going to get on CNN and give away all our intelligence, at least I hope they don't. TWe already have indictment against Bin Laden for previous acts of terrorism. I have never been pro-war, but I always knew I could never call myself pacifist, because I never had an answer to "what about Hitler?" If the alternative to war is acceptance of evil, then I would favor war. To suggest that those who favor war in this instance are self-indulgent martini-sippers is disgusting. Ric said: > that's what i think. i'm not calling for pacifism. i'm not > suggesting we > turn the other cheek. i'm saying i want proof. and until i see > it, i am not > going to sit from my cozy apartment with a view, sipping my martini and > calling for others to go out to die and kill people every bit as > innocent as > the ones who have died already, so i can feel vindicated and > avenged. when i > see that proof, then we can talk. - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling =^..^= - -----------------------------------> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 06:57:50 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) What a cool idea, Leslie. My first 45 was Rag Doll by the Four Seasons. I was in 1st grade. Some years later, my first LP was Diana Ross and the Supremes Greatest Hits. I remember it had a smart poster of the *girls* that hung on my wall for the next couple of years. My brother thought they were weird and hated the poster hanging in our shared room - but on my wall. Someone mentioned parent's LPs. My hands-down favorite was Whipped Cream by Herb Alpert and the TJB. A close second to Kay Starr's Wheel of Fortune and when I could sneak around, Rusty Warren's Knockers Up. So nasty. No regrets, Coyote Rick Casa Alegre Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 04:22:16 -0700 From: "Robert Holliston" Subject: Re: the march toward war...(NJC) Ric wrote: > i'm not calling for pacifism. i'm not suggesting we turn the other cheek. i'm saying i want proof. and until i see it, i am not going to sit from my cozy apartment with a view, sipping my martini and calling for others to go out to die and kill people every bit as innocent as the ones who have died already, so i can feel vindicated and avenged. when i see that proof, then we can talk. Ric, not only is this personal attack gratuitous and egregiously mean-spirited, it's also unfair for a couple of other reasons. Kakki lives right in the middle of a major American city that is much, much, much more likely to be a terrorist target than, say, Swampscott, MA or Victoria, B.C. I doubt that anyone in Los Angeles is feeling cozy right now. She's also said on the record that if she were younger she'd be among the first to enlist. I believe her absolutely, because I feel the same way myself. Having said that, I would have agreed with everything else you said if I'd read your post on September 10. Now, I'm reminded - chillingly - of that famous quote from a survivor of the Third Reich: "When they came for the Jews, I didn't intervene because I wasn't a Jew; When they came for the Catholics, I didn't intervene because I wasn't a Catholic; When they came for the gypsies, I didn't intervene because I wasn't a gypsy; When they came for me, there was nobody left to intervene." (This has been quoted from memory; it isn't accurate, but you get the point.) I shudder to think what the world might be like today if North Americans hadn't responded to what was, in the 1930s, a European crisis. We could all argue about American foreign policies - and I have yet to meet an American who isn't willing to do just that - but the fact, as I see it, is that the US did NOT invite or deserve this attack. Yet, aside from a few extremists, NO ONE is advocating a retaliation so hasty that innocent civilians anywhere are killed. Even if the US and its allies - which now include, at least diplomatically, just about everybody - took a pacifist, turn-the-other-cheek approach, it would be naive to think that someone like Osama bin Laden would be moved by this. His own stated objective stops at nothing short of the destruction of the US and its allies. As for proof, it's a different world now, as our friends in New York and Washington, D.C. know only too well. One of the freedoms we may now have to sacrifice to security will almost certainly be access to information. The US government may well have enough to indict bin Laden, and they may have good reason not to allow this information to be made public. Ric, we really part ways on this issue when it comes to the Taliban's demand for proof of bin Laden's involvement. It strikes me as utterly disingenuous, never more so than when I read the article you yourself sent to the list from Tamil, a San Francisco-based writer and journalist who was born in Afghanistan. Here is an excerpt: I speak as one who deeply hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. My hatred comes from first hand experience. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters. But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden,think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country. This writer asks that the innocent people of Afghanistan won't be unfairly victimized in a war they are already casualties of. The Northern Alliance, while it controls less than 10% of the country, is still recognized by the UN and most of the world as Afghanistan's true government: I'm sure that President Bush is all too aware of this. But you don't have to read between the lines to realize that Tamil is also desperate for someone, anyone, to free his country's citizens from what must be unspeakable oppression. If Tamil's words - and bin Laden's - don't constitute proof, they (in addition to other data) certainly justify bin Laden's extradition to the US. The Taliban must realize that this is NOT our decision. It is their decision. Despite seeing and trying to digest so many images on TV, nothing has brought the enormity of this crisis to me more than the reports from the front line; from Patrick, Kay, Debra, and others. Reading about Kakki's two-hour phone conversation only confirmed a suspicion that I've been harboring but haven't wanted to confront: it's way, way worse than we thought. Love to all, Roberto _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 07:32:02 EDT From: Kammass@aol.com Subject: Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) first 45- donna summer? upside-down...you turn me... inside out first album- shawn cassidy still love those songs! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 07:57:37 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: bob muller!!!!!!!! njc << Tell em you won't stop playing with it Bob!!! >> Wally's just upset because the Smurf doll liked ME the best! And while I'm at it: First 45: Dizzy by Tommy Roe First LP: American Graffitti Soundtrack Favorite reord of parents: Gut Mitchell, "Singin' The Blues" Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:23:22 +0100 From: "Bill Pearson" Subject: Re: America's TV special: the tribute to the 911 heros, njc Hello, If the US version is the same as the UK (2 hrs) I have it all. If someone can transfer UK to US, no problem. And finally - HAPPY BIRTHDAY BOB(one in a million)MULLER. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 07:20:26 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: Isaiah (njc) Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance? Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance. All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity. Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity. Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth. Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength. Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall: But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 09:39:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: the march toward war...(NJC) - --- evian wrote: > Mark wrote: > > > I was right with you, Ric, up until this last > part. This was > > mean-spirited and unnecessary, not to mention > unworthy of you. I > > think you owe Kakki a *big* apology. > > > > > My thoughts exactly -- I was nodding my head in > agreement and even began > a "me too" post before I reached the ending. If you > could have seen my > jaw drop when I did -- that was a low blow and > totally uncalled for. > Kakki is one of the kindest, smartest, and most > articulate lister around > (not to mention that for over three years, her posts > are the ones I > always read -- We obviously have completely > different points of view on > politics, but I respect everything she says and she > always gets me > thinking) and it saddens me that we have come to > this yet again. God, I > can't believe I am saying it, but the only Joni's > are actually looking > good to me lately. > Take care all of you, Same here. Like Mark and now like Evian, I was just about to respond, but I've been so far in my reading lately, that I thought I'd read further before saying anything. I totally got what Ric was saying, but Ric, you should've left that last paragraph out. This is one situation where people are going to be truly divided. Some, like me, are going to waver back and forth between "bomb the bastards" and "give peace a chance." Right now, I'm not sure what to think. I want to see justice done and I want to see it happen quickly. I recognize that what happened in NYC (and Washington and PA) may be pretty much the same as what has happened in other parts of the world and that maybe we in the US and Canada who always thought it could never happen here may have gotten a really big wake-up call, but I can't help thinking about what a bastardy thing that was to do, to regular working people like probably all of us here on the list, and our families and neighbours and co-workers, and how they didn't deserve this at all, and futhermore, with absolutely NO warning whatsoever. So, Ric, I understand your anger at those who might want to bomb the crap out of the "other side" (whoever it may be) but to put it in personal terms against Kakki was a low blow. I'm hoping that you hit that send button too fast in the heat of the moment (I can understand that too) but Kakki didn't deserve that at all. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 09:58:59 -0400 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: Re: Today, football and... njc Vince, Thank you for this post. I have been trying to get some of my friends out of the quagmire that they're stuck in. We raise the flag back up proudly today. It is time to get on with things and heal. Many friends are like deer caught in the headlights, not knowing which way to run. I try to assure them that things will be o.k. but how can I really do that? I caught part of the game on televison yesterday as we sat in our friend's motorhome while camping. Both Nate and I commented on remembering when we have been to the "big house" all you would see was U of M flags. How wonderful to see the stars and stripes and cool that you and Gage could be a part of that. Thanks as always for your insightful posts and GO LIONS! Sue Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S. http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 16:02:39 +0200 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: NJC Re: Chomsky lives... Yael wrote (Sept 21) >>To make Mike feel better about the state of (some) young people, I was at an open discussion of >young people from several schools in Ann Arbor last night, and there was a strong general anti-war >sentiment. And a highly informed one. << Thanks Yael for trying to restore my faith in young people. I'd be a lot happier if these voices could be heard and if (big 'if') the powers-that-be were not almost exclusively older people (or, to be more exact, old, white, male conservatives). >>It took a while for the anti-Vietnam movement to develop...perhaps this is just the beginning.<< You talk about a 'strong general anti-war sentiment' and that's great to hear. But. When did the anti-Vietnam movement begin, did it make any real difference and how long did it take to make that difference? Are these students representative of the views of the majority of the US public? Is there time to develop from Ann Arbor students into something that would make a difference? I would like to think so. Mike NP Garbarek and the Hillard Ensemble 'Parce mihi domine' (from 'Officium') ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 16:03:14 +0200 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: NJC Re: K/K/B debate Brenda wrote (Sept 21): >>many of the media conglomerates are publicly owned. Take AOL-Time Warner for >example. If I own one share of AOL-Time Warner stock or if I own a single share in a >mutual fund which owns AOL-TW (leaving out for a moment if I have a right because >my taxes inevitably subsidize their business) I have the right to say something about >their policies at CNN, Time magazine, or NY1 News. And perhaps a movement to >change the media would have to be a grass roots approach, levied by shareholders. I >don't know that it is likely to happen or yield a result but it is at least possible.<< Yes it's true that these corporations are public and that individual shareholders have a right to speak and a right to vote, but the majority (which counts in democratic societies) of the shares are owned by other corporations or institutions with their own agendas and enough voting power to brush off any individuals or even groups of 'concerned citizens' or 'grass roots approaches, however well-meaning and critical, when the time comes to decide policy. I wish it were otherwise, but it ain't. Mike. NP Garbarek and the Hillard Ensemble 'O salutaris hosti' (from 'Officium') ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 10:17:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Happy(s) Birthday(s) I just got caught up reading posts going back to Wed. or thereabouts, so i missed some birthdays. Best birthday wishes (better late than never) to the Marys, Bob, Heather - and I know I left out a name or two - the old memory isn't what it used to be. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 10:44:23 EDT From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Taliban - warning graphic (NJC) hello, In all this talk about not rushing to war, I think it's important that we really think about what the Taliban is doing to its own people. I saw a documentary last night on CNN. An English woman (whose father was from Afghanistan) went with a film crew into Afghanistan. This is what she said, and caught on film: - - They are using sports stadiums "football" which I assume means soccer here in the US as places of execution. She filmed women getting shot in the head in front of crowds. Apparently the Taliban received international funding for this stadium. When she asked 'why don't you use it for football, since that's what you got funding for' a Taliban official responded that they need a place to do their important work and the international community should fund them to build a place of execution if they are unhappy with them using a football stadium. I found this to be chilling. - - They are taking over villiages and executing civilians. She showed mass graves and groups of bodies. She implied that they were performing mass rape of women and children. This wasn't stated, but it was strongly suggested, as when she interviewed 3 girls ages 9, 12, and 15. Their father had been taken prisoner and their mother was shot. Then the soldiers stayed in their house for 2 days. When she asked what the soldiers did, they wouldn't say. - - Women can't work, so they are reduced to begging in many cases. Of course, they also must be covered from head to toe. - - Girls over 12 are not allowed to go to school. If anyone is caught teaching them, they will go to jail. - - Makeup is banned. Beauty parlors are now a form of subversion. - - Hospitals for women are atrocious (she filmed one that looked like a slum) and women die for lack of medical care. 1/4 of children die before they reach their 5th birthday. - - Homosexuals are shot. - - One of the most feared buildings is the society for the promotion of virtue and the suppression of vice. People who go in that building sometimes don't come out - they go directly to jail. - - Music is banned. She showed ribbons of torn cassette tape dangling from a tree. - - The Afghans are not one single ethnic group, but several - as she called it "a mosaic" who, she claimed, have lived together peacefully for centuries in a particular villiage until the Taliban came along. Also, don't forget the story of the woman in Pakistan who had her eyes gouged out and her ears and nose cut off because her husband thought she was having an affair. Where did she get medical treatment? The United States. Her husband is in jail, unlike nearly all perpetrators of "honor crimes". Like everyone else, I don't want to see killings of civilians. They have obviously suffered more than enough. But the Taliban is truly evil to its own people and the whole world has been looking the other way. They deserve to be taken out in my opinion. Also, my understanding is that the US is providing aid to Afghanistan, but the Taliban is keeping it from getting to the people most in need. On Larry King last night, they discussed the plight of an American female relief worker who went to Afghanistan to help and is now jailed by the Taliban. Her parents are in Pakistan trying to get her out. What they are doing to her in jail (if she's still alive) I don't even want to think about. This is what happens when Americans try to help. I've heard a lot on this list criticizing the US and its awful foreign policies. There is a lot to criticize, I grant you. However, where is the recognition of the evil the Taliban is perpetrating? As a female, I can tell you I don't want to live there. I don't think women anywhere in the world should be subjected to this. I know that the civil war was awful and the US funded Bin Laden. however, I think what the Taliban is doing is terrible enough that we should stop placing blame for past actions and focus on doing what we can. In my opinion, what's sad here is that no one really cared about the misery of the Afghan people until the US became a target. Mary ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 10:0:6 -0500 From: "William Burnworth" Subject: Happy Birthday Bob/1st records (njc) Gotta chime in on this one..Happy Birthday Bob! Thank you for all the musical joy you spread to us all! 1st 45: the Cowsills - "Hair"1st LP: Beatles - "Magical Mystery Tour" Thanks to all of you, esp. New Yorkers, for all of your storytelling/healing help these last terrible weeks...you're all in my thoughts and prayers! Love, William np: Wendy Wall - "Two Birds" --- William Burnworth--- cspringj@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 11:07:26 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) Kammass@aol.com wrote: > first 45- donna summer? upside-down...you turn me... inside out Diana Ross. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 11:11:01 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) 1st 45: The Shoop Shoop Song (It's In His Kiss) by Betty Everett, who just passed away 1st LP: People, by Babs Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 10:11:29 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: 3 Birthdays! njc Happy Birthday to my "hubby" Steve! I've ordered a case of hairspray and it should be arriving soon! ;>) Happy (late) Birthday to Mary Pitassi!!! I know I owe you an e-mail and will be writing soon. By the way, you WILL NOT miss Jonifest again next year if I have to drag you there myself! Happy Birthday, Bob!!! Thanks for your extreme generosity on the JMDL, your great job "emcee-ing" at Jonifest, your wonderful performance and most of all for your cute butt! ;> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 11:14:53 EDT From: Kammass@aol.com Subject: Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) thanks jerry - diana ross... kammy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 11:11:59 -0400 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: 3 Birthdays! njc OK, wait a minute, I wanna play too. This here old fart turned 53 on Tuesday. Especially because these have felt decidedly like non-celebratory times, let me join Kerry in extending birthday best wishes to the whole megilla below. Cheerz, Janet and Deanna Ivy the Wonderkitty, who was so cute on Tuesday when she woke me up while wearing that silly party hat and singing "Happy Birthday" At 10:11 AM 9/23/2001 -0500, kerry wrote: >Happy Birthday to my "hubby" Steve! I've ordered a case of hairspray and it >should be arriving soon! ;>) > >Happy (late) Birthday to Mary Pitassi!!! I know I owe you an e-mail and >will be writing soon. By the way, you WILL NOT miss Jonifest again next >year if I have to drag you there myself! > >Happy Birthday, Bob!!! Thanks for your extreme generosity on the JMDL, your >great job "emcee-ing" at Jonifest, your wonderful performance and most of >all for your cute butt! ;> - -------------- You've got to shake your fists at lightning now You've got to roar like forest fire You've got to spread your light like blazes All across the sky Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 11:18:51 -0400 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Birthday Bob, A happy and wonderful birthday to you!! Do enjoy, and know good thoughts from all of us come your way. All the best Stephen in Vancouver Again, thanks for all you do for this list and it's family! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 11:28:40 -0400 From: Bruyere Subject: Re: bob muller!!!!!!!! njc Happy Birthday Bob! I always thought you were a Pisces for some reason. Have a fantastic, festive birthday! Your September sister, Heather At 02:35 AM 9/23/01 -0300, Wally Kairuz wrote: >happy birthday, bob! now leave that smurf doll alone, boy! >lots of love, >wally and the BF ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 11:38:42 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Happy Birthdays! Happy Birthday Steve, Mary P., and Bob! Each of you add so much to the JMDL. Cheers!! No regrets, Coyote Rick Casa Alegre Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 12:05:47 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: America's TV special: the tribute to the 911 heros, njc << If someone can transfer UK to US, no problem. >> I can do that, Bill...so I'll let you know. Hopefully my Springsteen friend (in town) got it as well. Thanks too for the birthday wishes! Speaking of Springsteen, it's HIS birthday too! And Ray Charles, and Ani Difranco's...so we're all getting together later for a quiet birthday dinner & concert. (Well, I can dream, can't I?) :~) Bob NP: Amy Correia, "Carnival Love" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 12:19:41 -0400 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Re: the march toward war...(NJC) Ric wrote: "i am not inclined to get into discussions that concern themselves with religion or politics." my thoughts exactly! So i will not comment on your post Ric, but, I WILL agree with the sentiments already echoed by Mark, Evian and Roberto. Kakki does not deserve this throwing of flames! Her posts have been intelligent, articulate, and very much from the heart. I think you owe her an apology. ""that's what i think. i'm not calling for pacifism. i'm not suggesting we turn the other cheek. i'm saying i want proof. and until i see it, i am not going to sit from my cozy apartment with a view, sipping my martini and calling for others to go out to die and kill people every bit as innocent as the ones who have died already, so i can feel vindicated and avenged. when i see that proof, then we can talk." Stephen in Vancouver peace, ric ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 12:20:05 -0400 From: Bruyere Subject: RE: the march toward war...(NJC) Yes Deb. This past Friday I watched a White House briefing by Ari Fletcher (sp) to prominent news reporters. They kept badgering him (Ari) for hypotheticals and speculatives. These reporters were so bent on getting a "scoop". It was disgusting. I stated earlier about needing proof BUT a line has to be drawn. This American does NOT want to hear what our secret service and military intelligence is doing blabbed all over the TV and newspapers. There will be a time and place for that. I am not one for war. I also feel that something has to be done. I am in a quandary over all what has happened and I think many Americans are. All I know and feel is that this hideous disease of terrorism has to cease. Many people (you, Kakki, Roberto, Vince and others) have expressed bits and pieces of the way I feel. That is how the threads of who we are cross and weave a nation. I don't have ultimate answers .... I am just one voice. Heather At 06:53 AM 9/23/01 -0400, Deb Messling wrote: >If you want the kind of proof demanded in a US court of law, you're not >going to get it. For god's sake, nobody is going to get on CNN and give >away all our intelligence, at least I hope they don't. TWe already have >indictment against Bin Laden for previous acts of terrorism. > >I have never been pro-war, but I always knew I could never call myself >pacifist, because I never had an answer to "what about Hitler?" If the >alternative to war is acceptance of evil, then I would favor war. > >To suggest that those who favor war in this instance are self-indulgent >martini-sippers is disgusting. > >Ric said: > > that's what i think. i'm not calling for pacifism. i'm not > > suggesting we > > turn the other cheek. i'm saying i want proof. and until i see > > it, i am not > > going to sit from my cozy apartment with a view, sipping my martini and > > calling for others to go out to die and kill people every bit as > > innocent as > > the ones who have died already, so i can feel vindicated and > > avenged. when i > > see that proof, then we can talk. >----------------------------------- >Deb Messling =^..^= >-----------------------------------> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 09:25:06 -0700 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: Re: about "proof" (njc) For what it's worth, Secretary of State Colin Powell was a guest on TV's "Meet the Press" this morning. He said he was "absolutely convinced" that Usama bin Laden and the Al Queda organization is behind the hijackings and destruction visited on the WTC and Pentagon. I've always considered General Powell a bit of a hawk, but I've got alot of respect for him. His "Powell Doctrine" of miltitary engagement makes alot of sense to me. Thank God he's a decision maker in this crisis. I've never had reason to question his integrity. Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld strikes me as a loose cannon and a hawk of the highest order. Word is he wants to go all out to militarily nail governments all over the world that "harbor terrorists," whatever the hell that means. He seems to forget that the U.S. was the country harboring terrorists in this instance. Nothing against my friend National Security Advisor Condi Rice, but her specialty is the former Soviet Union and Russia. She makes an excellent spokesperson though, and certainly she's very loyal to the Bushes. Her intelligence will be an asset to the President. As far as George W. is concerned, I consider him a figurehead and not even a very good one. He's said some pretty stupid things at very wrong times in this crisis. The man has only been out of the country two or three times in his life, for chrissakes. I certainly don't want him handling delicate military strategy. He seems to be holding his own in the cheerleader role though, which he is well qualified for. A lot of people will disagree with me, I'm sure, but I think this is what happens when you mess with the democratic process like the Supreme Court did in the last election. You get a very weak President and the enemies of the Nation take advantage of it, pronto. Marcel would have a field day with this paragraph (maybe I'll send it to him privately, just for the goof.) Anywho, Powell says that a paper outlining the "proof" against bin Laden is forthcoming. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 12:32:38 EDT From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Re: Taliban documentary viewing information (NJC) Just in case anyone thinks I'm making this stuff up, the Taliban documentary, called "beneath the veil" is being re-broadcast at 7 PM EST tonight on CNN. Here's a link: http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/presents/ Mary ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 12:36:51 EDT From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Ric's note (njc) Ric wrote, as part of a longer note: This is inaccurate. He was a "d" student, and he usually rides in the back seat. - -walt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:02:43 EDT From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Jerry "Tax Free" Falwell (njc) Just wanted to pass along this articulate comment regarding Jerry Falwell's appearance on GMA: Email Michael Fernandes sent to the Good Morning America show, 9/20/01: While I understand that ABC News is committed to reporting the news without judgement or bias, I was appalled that you provided Jerry Falwell with a nationally televised audience for hatred disguised as apology. It served only to mask the point which you yourselves have tried to make many times over the last horrific week - that hatred and intolerance exist in our own culture as well, and should not be misconstrued as just another religious point of view. Hatred is simply not Christian. Yet on your own show Mr. Falwell was saying, in effect, that he stands by his hating beliefs, offering only the explanation that he did not mean that God wanted us to be ATTACKED BECAUSE of the people he hates. Imagine if Bin Laden had released a statement trying to convince us that he believes that America is the Devil and should be destroyed, BUT that he REGRETS that certain Islamic individuals drove planes into the World Trade Towers killing thousands of innocent people. Would we give a moment's credibility to such a statement? Unlike Falwell, however, Bin Laden does not disguise his hatred behind false and misleading apologies, which sadly makes Falwell clearly the more cunning and duplicitous of the two fanatic religious leaders. What continues to be true, after Falwell's empty and meaningless apology, is that his teachings will continue to target specific groups for hatred, based upon fundamental interpretations of his religion's primary text. There is virtually no difference between that position and Bin Laden's fundamentalist Islamic position. And if one would argue that Falwell at least does not condone or encourage violence, I remind you of two things. First, that it was only 25 years ago that Anita Bryant's hate-crusade espoused capital punishment for homosexual acts. And second, speaking as a Psychotherapist, that hatred disguising itself as non-violence breeds violence nonetheless, and perhaps even moreso, and more insidiously, because it claims to be Love. Perhaps you should offer equal air-time to Pro-Choice and Gay leaders so that they can document some of their experiences that have been direct results of the teachings of fundamentalist Christian preachers about the so-called will of God. Bin Laden has presented us with an opportunity to choose the sort of future we want for our world. I pray that we will choose a world entirely free of the teachings of hatred, no matter which religion or culture or country they spring from. Michael Fernandes Provincetown, MA "Preacher preaching love like vengeance Preaching love like hate..." --JM, "Tax Free" Peace, walt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 10:04:40 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: bob muller!!!!!!!! njc A big Happy Birthday to the King of Joni Covers! Have a great one, Bob! Mark E > happy birthday, bob! now leave that smurf doll alone, boy! > lots of love, > wally and the BF ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:16:56 -0400 From: Bruyere Subject: Re: Taliban documentary viewing information (NJC) Thanks Mary .... I'll tune in. Heather At 12:32 PM 9/23/01 -0400, TimandMaryPowers@aol.com wrote: >Just in case anyone thinks I'm making this stuff up, the Taliban documentary, >called "beneath the veil" is being re-broadcast at 7 PM EST tonight on CNN. >Here's a link: > >http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/presents/ > >Mary ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 20:18:47 +0200 From: "Marian" Subject: who called me??? (NJC) Somebody called me at home to wish me a happy birthday, but my answering machine is very poor quality and I could not hear the name and could not recognize the voice. Did somebody from JMDL call me? Marian marian@jmdl.com http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/guitar.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:17:41 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) Don't remember the first, exactly, but did spend a lot of time listening to every 45 that the Carpenters came out with. Took a lot of flack over that but I liked them, still do. Also had that record "I'm a girl watcher" by ?????. talk about non-prophetic. hehehe. mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 10:14 AM Subject: Re: First 33 1/3 and 45 rpm records (NJC) > thanks jerry - diana ross... > kammy ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #431 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?