From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #428 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, September 22 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 428 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Dream Festival ["Dolphie Bush" ] dream festival njc ["Dolphie Bush" ] Justice, not Terror [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Dream Festival ["Blair Fraipont" ] Rumi/birthdays NJC [was: backlash towards muslims] [dsk ] apology [Vince Lavieri ] njc, Happy birthday, Marian! ["jlamadoo, home account" ] Re: NJC - Brenda/Kakki/Kate debate [] Re: Justice, not Terror ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: No Subject (NJC) [TimandMaryPowers@aol.com] Re: marian russell!!!! njc ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: dream festival njc [TimandMaryPowers@aol.com] Re: marian russell!!!! njc [Bruyere ] Re: FDR, Churchill fan (njc) [Mags ] Re: here comes that weird minor again NJC [Bruyere ] 1 year since my White House Sleepover! [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Dream Festival [Bruyere ] Re: NJC - war for tv ["Kakki" ] Re: NJC - benefit [Vince Lavieri ] Re: NJC - war for tv ["Kakki" ] Re: NJC - benefit ["Kakki" ] chomsky lives in Massachusetts NJC [Yael Harlap ] Re: chomsky lives in Massachusetts NJC ["Kakki" ] Need UK book store, njc ["jlamadoo, home account" ] Re: Need UK book store, njc ["Kakki" ] America's TV special: the tribute to the 911 heros, njc ["jlamadoo, home ] Re: dreamfestival/faure njc ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: NJC Re: and the painted ponies bite your hands VLJC ["Blair Fraipont"] Bomb them with butter, bribe them with hope (NJC) [evian ] chretien government cowardice (njc) [evian ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 16:33:57 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Dream Festival Hey William. A little escapism. Perfect. Thanks. My dream festival would start with rickie lee Jones, Melissa Manchester, joni, Hall and Oates, Luther Vandross, Gino Vannelli, rick Astley, and a finale by Janis. Now that would be heaven for me. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 16:35:05 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: dream festival njc and nanci griffith. mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 17:46:38 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Justice, not Terror Although our leaders are under tremendous pressure to act in the aftermath of the terrible events of Sept. 11th, it's important to let them know that we support justice, not escalating violence, which would only play into the terrorists' hands. I hope you'll join me in signing an online statement of support for "Justice, not Terror" at: http://www.moveon.org/justice/ Thank you. Your participation could really make a difference -- it's vital that we all speak up now, before it's too late. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 17:55:51 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: Dream Festival Hey great post!!! This really is irrational and extremely drealike, but what the hell? :) My dream Festival would include.. (this may be a two day festival..hahaha) First Day.. Fela Kuti (circ 1971), Miles Davis (circa 1969-1973), Charles Mingus (circa 1960) Joni, Can, John Coltrane Quartet Second Day Captain Beefheart and The Magic Band, Leonard Cohen, R.E.M. (Circa 1983-85), Nina Simone, The Cure, Bob Dylan,(circa 1975-76) and finally top it all off with Frank Zappa (circa 1977-1979 with the Rockin' Teenage Combo)... OH would that be a sweet festival............ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 18:14:08 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Rumi/birthdays NJC [was: backlash towards muslims] Hi Marian, I'm glad you like these words and hope you or others do not take them as a time-based demand. I'm likely to snap at anyone who says the word wallowing again even when I can see it's an attempt to get things back to normal, and help people feel better that way. It doesn't feel like things here, or anywhere, will ever be back to normal. So, to me, Rumi's words are very gentle and rather than being a command, I take them as a suggestion, one full of hope. If there's a day when all sadness cannot be left behind... and some days are like that... the image of new seeds growing anyway, even when we've not planted them, is comforting to me. Such growth is inevitable. Life does go on. It is hard to imagine now how any good can come from the killing of over 6,000 people. I hope somehow some does. On a more tangible note... happy birthday to you and your almost-twin Heather! May you both have many many more! I'm looking forward to a guitar lesson or two from you at the next Jonifest. Prepare yourself. It will be a challenge. Peace, Debra Shea M.Russell@iaea.org wrote: > > On 18 September 2001 09:42, dsk [SMTP:dsk11@bellatlantic.net] wrote: > > Here's something else Rumi wrote: > > > > It's good to leave each day behind, > > like flowing water, free of sadness. > > Yesterday is gone and its tale told. > > Today new seeds are growing. > > Thank you for posting that Debra. It's something I probably need to think > about. I am printing it out to hang on my wall at work. > > Marian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 18:20:44 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: NJC - war for tv I have not the energy to get involved in this - but gees, after 58,000 American dead and maybe 3,000,000 Vietnamese dead in a war fought with American troops, armaments, weapons, military aid, etc. etc. etc., now you tell me it was not OUR war! Kakki wrote: > Sorry - I meant to say Vietnam was NOT our war. > > > I can't see where you think that. Vietnam was >protested largely in part > because it was our war. Here is my favorite quote from the speech last night: "Women are not allowed to attend school. You can be jailed for owning a television. Religion can be practiced only as their leaders dictate. A man can be jailed in Afghanistan if his beard is not long enough." If that's all true, W, might as well drop the bomb on them! And as I depart, I am wondering why we demand the Taliban to turn over bin laden without, I repeat, without our providing proof of his guilt. The Taliban has said, give us the proof. Bush refuses. We will go to war rather than release the proof. Is this a violation of basic American principles? Is it because there is no proof? Is it just pure hypocrisy because we would never turn over someone to another government without proof? Or is it because that after Bush's speaking of "crusades" and "dead or alive" that he is intentionally inflaming part of the world at us? And we wonder why they hate us? The horrors of last week will never be eased by the creation of more horrors. We must seek out the best solutions, the best responses, that we can make, rather than continue this headlong rush to war. Kakki, you said it this war was "our" war. After the horrible misunderstanding of last weekend (which I still feel badly about) please take this as lovingly as I can: do not speak of this as "our" war unless that "our" includes you. Enlist, please. Be up front about it. My son Jeremy turns 25 today. No one has a clue where he is. He is a Marine, a grunt, he will be in the first wave. I pick up my grandson Gage very soon. Can you imagine how I feel right now? It is another way that I connect to the horrors of all the families who lost loved ones last week - and to the families who may lose loved ones in what is to come. I am hearing a lot on intellectual head tripping from you Kakki, on these things. We are talking war. Our nation ignored the terror in Rwanda, Nigeria, Timor, Chiapas, Bosnia, Ireland, all in the last decade. Your man Bush opposed the peacekeeping action to stop the terrorism in Kosovo and also said the ongoing terrorism in Israel-Palestine was not our affair. Now as a nation we have suffered a small part of what others have experienced and we are in a rush to respond, a rush to war. I don't have the answers, I don't pretend to, but so that the horrors of last week are not continued, in my own opinion, we must count the human costs and stop the headlong rush to war that we are in now. If we go to war, this war is not my war. It is not God's way and I must cling to that. "The nations are in an uproar, the kingdoms totter; he utters his voice, the earth melts. The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Come, behold the works of the LORD; see what desolations he has brought on the earth. He makes wars cease to the end of the earth; he breaks the bow, and shatters the spear; he burns the shields with fire. "Be still, and know that I am God! I am exalted among the nations, I am exalted in the earth." The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge." (Psalm 46) "Some take pride in chariots, and some in horses, but our pride is in the name of the LORD our God. They will collapse and fall, but we shall rise and stand upright." (Psalm 20) "The LORD looks down from heaven; he sees all humankind. From where he sits enthroned he watches all the inhabitants of the earth-- he who fashions the hearts of them all, and observes all their deeds. A king is not saved by his great army; a warrior is not delivered by his great strength. The war horse is a vain hope for victory, and by its great might it cannot save." (Psalm 33) I am not called to rally around the military for any answer the military has is a vain hope. I support the people in the military. And I do not yield one fractional of a decimal in my Americanism. We always pray for the president, whomever it may be, but I am not called to rally around the president. And while this nation has a military and will have a military and in the real world in which we dwell, it has its purpose - I am proud of our service as peacekeepers in Kosovo for example - the military has a purpose but never an answer, they are never a solution. Osama Bin Laden does need to be dealt with but there are other ways than military madness. I do caution against demonizing Bin laden - I can take you on a trip to White Christian Churches in Michigan, Illinois, and the West where any number of clergy will tell you it is the duty of Christians to kill Muslims. (In fact, we have a whole church history about that, its called the Crusades, and could also take in the Inquisition if you want to include Jews, and then that would take in the Holocaust...) Bin Laden is a terrorist but do we go to war with Afghanistan for the acts of an individual and his followers? How many will die then? Bin Laden can be dealt with without war. For those of us who are Christians we are called to witness to the Gospel of peace, Put the sword - Jesus' last command before his crucifixion. I pray that the President - particularly and especially this president - get some wisdom. And I support our military people; my own son will in the first lines of those whom you would send off to war, sent to kill the sons of others who just happened to be born where they live, as we happened to be born here. And that killing will not advance the Gospel. The attacks were heinous. The horror is beyond comprehension. The victims of hatred include the perpetrators of these actions, for they were killed by the hate, and what a horrid life they lived, to be consumed by some hate. As Jesus has taught me to pray for the forgiveness of my sins as I forgive others, I have the task of forgiveness ahead of me - a huge task. As an American, I also have the task of advocating for a realistic, measured, effective response. And that is not in our nation playing the role of the general in the Gladiator movie, crying "unleash hell." "In Judah God is known, his name is great in Israel. His abode has been established in Salem, his dwelling place in Zion. There he broke the flashing arrows, the shield, the sword, and the weapons of war. Glorious are you, more majestic than the everlasting mountains. The stouthearted were stripped of their spoil; they sank into sleep; none of the troops was able to lift a hand. At your rebuke, O God of Jacob, both rider and horse lay stunned. But you indeed are awesome!" (Psalm 76) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 18:23:46 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: apology I forgot the NJC tag on a post, sorry... (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 19:08:22 -0400 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: njc, Happy birthday, Marian! I hope to give you a birthday hug in upstate New York next August! Woo Hoo! Lama ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 19:29:28 -0400 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: re: 'Joni Mitchell: Shadows and Light' by Karen O'Brien Kakki, This is the story that I was trying to remember when I was researching my essay on THOSL. I couldn't remember who's story it was. It was Mrs. Anderson's. Now I need to add a paragraph to my project. Does anyone remember where I can find the _full text_ of Myrtle Anderson's cocktail party story about meeting the engineer, years later? I love that story 'cause it seems as though the engineer was fated to inspire our little Joan Anderson to grow to be strong and outgoing, in spite of everything. To aspire to travel and do Good Work. BTW, when Karen offered to put me in the Acknowledgments for giving her some coffeehouse dubs, I told her that I'm just a branch and that the one who deserved the honor was Simon, our community's Archivist. :) Thanks again, Simon. You are the Best! - -- From: "Paul Castle" PS OK OK, I couldn't resist just one - something I could relate to from my own childhood "The family settled into their home at 214 Railway Avenue East; Bill put up a swing in the garden, but one of Joan's favourite pastimes required little more than a chair at the large window in the living-room, at the front of the house. The view across the road to the railway line was to give Joan a literal window on the world, a yearning for the wider universe beyond, symbolised by the rattle and hum of the daily steam train. The young child would perch at the window each day and wave to the driver as the train passed slowly. Years later, long after the family had left Maidstone, her parents met a man who once worked in the area for Canadian railways. When he found out where they'd lived, he recalled his only memory of the unaventful trip along the line through Maidstone - an exuberant tow- haired little girl who'd be waiting each day to exchange a wave." From 'Joni Mitchell: Shadows and Light' by Karen O'Brien Published by Virgin Books Ltd - 4th October 2001 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 19:44:08 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Justice, not Terror In a message dated 9/21/01 9:50:53 PM !!!First Boot!!!, revrvl@chartermi.net writes: > Although our leaders are under tremendous pressure to act in the > aftermath of the terrible events of Sept. 11th, it's important to > let them know that we support justice, not escalating violence, > which would only play into the terrorists' hands. > > I hope you'll join me in signing an online statement of support > for "Justice, not Terror" at: Before you go off signing stuff like that, maybe you ought to define your terms here. Where would you draw the line between justice and vengeance? Personally, I think there is a line to be drawn but I couldn't say where I'd define it. And I do believe that governments that harbor terrorists are as guilty as the terrorists themselves, especially considering the terrorists who committed these atrocities cannot be brought to justice here on earth. Those governments that harbor, support and help to train such terorrists should be taken out by whatever means necessary, though hopefully that will be short of using nuclear weapons. Though I did not vote for Dubya, I was very impressed by his speech last night and believe his restrained approach so far has been the right course. Therefore, I suggest that the petition the reverend is advocating borders on preposterous and would not add my name to such a document. Furthermore, I would discourage anyone else from doing so, especially until we see a little more from our government about the direction they will be taking to obtain "justice," however you might define it. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 19:45:25 -0400 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: Joni news to date Last week I found out the good news that she's going to be recording IN LONDON in November for a retrospective of 24 songs with an orchestra. Maybe a pilgrimage on your part is called for! In America last year, she debuted a version of "The Judgement Of the Moon And Stars (Ludwig's Tune)" that I dearly love. IMO, its reminiscent of Aaron Copland. The new version was also orchestated by Vince Mendoza, who won a Grammy in America for his work on Joni's "Both Sides Now" project. Just after BSN was released, we heard that several of his new orchestrations were already in the can for the next project. She is now tentatively and alarmingly calling the upcoming 2 CD set "Swan Song". News as it happens....... Lama ps, Aren't you the guy who gave us the "My Top 12" show to tree? Many thanks from all of us who loved to hear her talk about her influences. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 01:03:54 +0100 From: Subject: Re: NJC - Brenda/Kakki/Kate debate > I'm astutely aware that there has been no official mention of what our > role will be in Pakistan. The potential for conflict there is great > whatever the Pakistan government chooses. Again, if anyone has read any > statements by Secretaries Powell or Rumsfeld that speak on this, please > let me know. > Brenda, Colin Powell was interviewed on BBC Newsnight tonight. I don't think he answered your specific question but it was an impressive interview. You can watch it by clicking on latest programme. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/events/newsnight/newsid_248000/248099.stm Philip ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 19:05:42 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: Justice, not Terror ditto paul. mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 6:44 PM Subject: Re: Justice, not Terror > In a message dated 9/21/01 9:50:53 PM !!!First Boot!!!, revrvl@chartermi.net > writes: > > > > Although our leaders are under tremendous pressure to act in the > > aftermath of the terrible events of Sept. 11th, it's important to > > let them know that we support justice, not escalating violence, > > which would only play into the terrorists' hands. > > > > I hope you'll join me in signing an online statement of support > > for "Justice, not Terror" at: > > Before you go off signing stuff like that, maybe you ought to define your > terms here. > Where would you draw the line between justice and vengeance? > Personally, I think there is a line to be drawn but I couldn't say where I'd > define it. And I do believe that governments that harbor terrorists are as > guilty as the terrorists themselves, especially considering the terrorists > who committed these atrocities cannot be brought to justice here on earth. > Those governments that harbor, support and help to train such terorrists > should be taken out by whatever means necessary, though hopefully that will > be short of using nuclear weapons. > Though I did not vote for Dubya, I was very impressed by his speech last > night and believe his restrained approach so far has been the right course. > Therefore, I suggest that the petition the reverend is advocating borders on > preposterous and would not add my name to such a document. Furthermore, I > would discourage anyone else from doing so, especially until we see a little > more from our government about the direction they will be taking to obtain > "justice," however you might define it. > > Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 20:11:07 EDT From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Re: No Subject (NJC) In a message dated 9/21/01 11:05:54 AM, cactussong@home.com writes: >happy birthday marion and heather... >...a poem by donald hall, born sept.20 My birthday was September 20 too. Notable this year for Bush's speech. Mary ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 17:36:44 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: marian russell!!!! njc > happy birthday, marian!!!!! > w and the bf Happy Birthday to a very special and talented lady! All the best to you, Marian! Hugs, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 20:52:15 EDT From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Re: dream festival njc Faure would have to be raised from the dead. His "Requiem" is my favorite piece of music ever. It is a work that emphasizes eternal rest and God's benevolence, unlike so many Requiems that focus on the horrors of the day of judgement. It is truly beautiful. Gabriel Faure's dates: 1845-1924 Sorry, can't resist: here's an audio link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000031HB/qid=1000772343/sr=1-3/ref=sc _m_3/002-9939437-5592012 Mary ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 21:14:46 -0400 From: Bruyere Subject: Re: marian russell!!!! njc Happy Birthday Marian! A huge "cyber- high-five" from your sister virgo! Much love and happiness always- Heather At 03:23 AM 9/21/01 -0300, Wally Kairuz wrote: >happy birthday, marian!!!!! >w and the bf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 21:19:23 -0400 From: Mags Subject: Re: FDR, Churchill fan (njc) and we welcome you with open arms Kakki!!!! I was touched by your mentioning the support from the Canadian contingent.... Im so glad you feel this way. It has been so difficult to know just what to say. We have been deeply affected by this too. Thank you for acknowledging us ...we are in a very difficult position and this tragedy has challenged us in ways we are only beginning to understand. Mags, still wondering what Pierre Trudeau would do. npimh: la vie en rose Kakki wrote: > Shane, > > You are really a sweetheart. You, Mags, Roberto, Stephen, Catherine have all > written such truly heartfelt and supportive posts to us. I seriously am ready > to move to Canada ;-) > > Kakki - -- And this loving is a drawing close, a tuning in, an opening. Until one perfect moment; but how can it be expressed? A receiving, an enfolding as I cradle you in my arms. Within my heart, within my soul, You are my true love. --Lui Collins - --- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 21:36:33 -0400 From: Bruyere Subject: Re: here comes that weird minor again NJC Oh Roberto! This really means so much to me! It is I that has to get off my butt and visit you!! Believe me, Connecticut pales in comparison to Victoria. You have introduced me to so much wonderful classical music. Its funny, but whenever we get together and have our wonderful chats, I feel as if I have known you for a very long time. There are many others on the list who make me feel that way ... just a sense of belonging. BTW - your next mister libra 55-er ;-) PEACE & Happiness to all - Heather At 01:38 AM 9/21/01 -0700, Robert Holliston wrote: >Wishing a happy birthday to Heather (my fellow 55-er) and to Marian, two >very bright lights in my life! Here's to many more years of happiness, >art, music, friendship, family, and rejoicing. >Here's to the JMDL community. Sure, we have our differences, but we meet >in a spirit of friendship: at Ashara's, at Julie's, at Michael's, at >Kakki's; in England, at David Lahm's splendid Judy's Chelsea. We meet and >get together before and after concerts. We welcome other JMDLers into our >homes and communities. Every time two JMDLers get together, it's a >Jonifest. Or, more importantly, a JMDL fest. I've made some close and >enduring friendships with fellow listers, and I'm celebrating that. > >Heather - we were friends long before we actually met, which we finally >did in New York. Since then, I've cherished the times we've spent >together, and look forward to many more visits - one of these days, I'll >get off my lazy butt and travel to Connecticut... > >Marian - we met at Ashara's Jonifest in 1999 (earlier, I sent you a tape >and you sent me chocolate from Vienna) - my eyes filled up when I had to >say goodbye to you at Atty May's.... > >OK, this is kind of long for a birthday message. We're living in a time of >darkness and instability, but being able to wish Heather and Marian - two >of the most wonderful people I've ever met - a happy birthday reminds me >that there is light. A world that has Heather Galli and Marian Russell >living in it is a world well worth living in. > >Love to everybody, >Roberto > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 22:12:46 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: 1 year since my White House Sleepover! It's been a full year since I slept over at the White House. That was such an exciting event! the only sad news is that Bill and Hillary Clinton won't be able to attend the party my mom's having next week...oh well... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 22:33:19 -0400 From: Bruyere Subject: Re: Dream Festival Gino Vannelli ! I have not heard his name in ages! I have an LP of his from back in the early 70's titled Crazy Life. I know he had a big hit on the radio in the 80's, I think. What ever happen to him? He did have a great voice. Heather At 04:33 PM 9/21/01 -0500, Dolphie Bush wrote: >Hey William. A little escapism. Perfect. Thanks. > >My dream festival would start with rickie lee Jones, Melissa Manchester, joni, >Hall and Oates, Luther Vandross, Gino Vannelli, rick Astley, and a finale by >Janis. Now that would be heaven for me. > Mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 19:42:27 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC - war for tv Vince, I'm sorry you missed my context. I was replying to Mike about the different reasons why people here protested the Vietnam war - many of them protested because of the notion that it was not our war, i.e., not our country, not our business. In contrast, one could argue that this current situation is our war because we have been personally attacked on our soil. That's all. Kakki > I have not the energy to get involved in this - > > but gees, after 58,000 American dead and maybe 3,000,000 Vietnamese dead in a > war fought with American troops, armaments, weapons, military aid, etc. etc. > etc., > > now you tell me it was not OUR war! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 23:20:19 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: NJC - benefit Kakki, if I missed your context I apologize. I am stressed tonight as the Marine locator was taken down off the semi-secret Marine website and that has shaken me up since it means that the locator has become "access denied" due to "public policy". And it is Jeremy's birthday and I am wondering where is my son tonight. I missed almost all of the benefit tonight on tv - Gage is over (Jeremy's son) and I was not about to fight with him about the tv. So I see online that neil Young sang imagine, I bet that was fantastic. I did catch the end, Willie Nelson on America, and that is the most meaningful of the songs to me, the one that I led the community service in last Sunday, and it choked me up. Anyone have any reviews of the benefit? (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 19:54:27 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC - war for tv Vince wrote: > I am hearing a lot on intellectual head > tripping from you Kakki, on these things. We are talking war. Our nation > ignored the terror in Rwanda, Nigeria, Timor, Chiapas, Bosnia, Ireland, all in > the last decade. Your man Bush opposed the peacekeeping action to stop the > terrorism in Kosovo and also said the ongoing terrorism in Israel-Palestine > was not our affair. With all due repsect, I have no idea what you are talking about here regarding my "intellectual head-tripping." but I'll take a look inside and see if I have been doing that and try to tone it down. Wasn't Clinton the president for most of the last decade? I'm confused, but that's O.K. As for your declared pacifism, I will respect that. I loved what Shane wrote the other night about how we need warriors and pacifists in every war to have a balance. I do think I have a right to be concerned about the safety and security of my country. I live at ground zero of another attractive target for the terrorists, and there have been many FBI and other warnings pertaining L.A. and the west coast since last week that probably don't make the regular nationwide news. I think I would enlist if I was young enough and healthy enough, by the way. I wish all safety to your son at this time. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 19:57:27 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC - benefit That's O.K. Vince. I am so sorry about what you are having to go through with your son. We are all stressed and I think most here are being understanding of that (thank you) right now. Take care, Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 23:27:16 -0400 From: Yael Harlap Subject: chomsky lives in Massachusetts NJC Kakki wrote: >I wonder if Chomsky or Fisk would be willing to do a house exchange with me >now. I'll go to London or Belgrade for awhile and they can have a nice >apartment and a room with a view right in the center of downtown Los >Angeles. This isn't supposed to attack you, Kakki, at all! I just wanted to point out that people can have those opinions even living in the United States. Chomsky is an American citizen, he is a professor at MIT (a groundbreaking, paradigm-shifting linguist as well as a historian and activist), and lives in Boston/Cambridge, MA. And there are other people who are strongly against the war... To make Mike feel better about the state of (some) young people, I was at an open discussion of young people from several schools in Ann Arbor last night, and there was a strong general anti-war sentiment. And a highly informed one. I wish I could send you the poem that one young person read in response to last week's events. It was impassioned, intelligent and powerful. It took a while for the anti-Vietnam movement to develop... perhaps this is just the beginning. Respectfully, - -Yael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 20:07:38 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: chomsky lives in Massachusetts NJC Yael, I was just sort of joking - the report Jerry sent in indicated Chomsky was presently in Belgrade. I know Chomsky is from the U.S. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 00:28:10 -0400 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: Need UK book store, njc I'm interested in purchasing 2 copies of Karen O'Brien's biography of Joni. It's not available from Amazon or Barnes and Noble (yet?). (One as a gift for Simon. I'd say I owe him at least that much, eh?!) Does anyone know of a USA bookseller who specializes in books published in the UK? Or does anyone know of a UK bookseller who exports to us Colonials? I never thought I'd come begging to Mother England. hee hee Lama npimh: Our President when he thanked Prime Minister Blair for flying the wide, cold Atlantic to stand with us in our grief. Then President Bush, in his characteristic measured tones said, "America has no greater friend than Great Britian," and the tv camera showed Tony Blair, standing in the Capitol, in Washington, D.C., nodding confidently, approvingly, and reassuringly. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 21:09:26 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Need UK book store, njc Lama wrote: > npimh: Our President when he thanked Prime Minister >Blair for flying the wide, cold Atlantic to stand with us in >our grief. > > Then President Bush, in his characteristic measured >tones said, "America has no greater friend than Great >Britian," and the tv camera showed Tony Blair, standing >in the Capitol, in Washington, D.C., nodding confidently, > approvingly, and reassuringly. I meant to comment on this when you wrote about it last week. Last Tuesday after being woken up to the surreal phone call from my mother about what was happening, I got it together to high tail it out of downtown. Since all the offices had told everyone to go back home, the traffic gridlock was unbelievable with everyone still coming into work and everyone leaving at the same time. I tried to go east figuring I would take surface streets 30 miles to my parents' house. It took me an hour just to get out of downtown. When I finally got to my parents' house, Blair was on TV with his words to us. I have rarely been so struck - it was such a deep and immediate comfort at that time. He was awesome, just awesome. I am amazed by him, that's all I can say. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 01:32:10 -0400 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: America's TV special: the tribute to the 911 heros, njc Wow, if you missed this program, you missed a *LOT*. I won't even begin to detail my thoughts except for the closing song: So here the evening ends. Here is Willie Nelson, personifying our thread bare imperfection. Our fragile claim on blessings. Our off-kilter and awkward, yet unwavering resolve. Our quiet dignity. Here we are, a mongrel nation. A mixed bag, rattling tonight with ashes and gems. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 01:41:10 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: dreamfestival/faure njc Yes! That is one of the most beautiful pieces of music I have heard. I first took a listen to it when I was in Paris with the University of Delaware and taking a very basic Appreication of Music class.. Blair > >Faure would have to be raised from the dead. His "Requiem" is my favorite >piece of music ever. It is a work that emphasizes eternal rest and God's >benevolence, unlike so many Requiems that focus on the horrors of the day >of >judgement. It is truly beautiful. > >Gabriel Faure's dates: 1845-1924 > >Sorry, can't resist: here's an audio link: > >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000031HB/qid=1000772343/sr=1-3/ref=sc > >_m_3/002-9939437-5592012 > >Mary _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 01:45:57 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: NJC Re: and the painted ponies bite your hands VLJC Bob, That is what several friends have told me. One said, "In New York you have to really market yourself here.." so maybe I will, but take it cautiously. Blair ><< WHy not me? I guess it will come when it comes.. Maybe I am too > picky. >> > >Could be, Blair...like the old song says, don't overlook an orchid while >looking for a rose...not that there's anything wrong with Roses, mind you, >I >know a real SWEET one! ;~) > >I don't mean to play Dear Abby, but if you're seeking a significant other, >put yourself in circulation more. Join clubs, look in the paper for >meetings >of people with similar interests. Let your friends, co-workers know that >you're in the market, and let them set you up. Or, do volunteer activities, >community theatre, etc. You may not find the right combination right away, >but eventually something will click. > >Bob > >NP: They Might Be Giants, "Mr. Xcitement" _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 00:05:47 -0600 From: evian Subject: Bomb them with butter, bribe them with hope (NJC) I love this Marian... thanks for sharing :) Wishing you all a safe and peaceful weekend, Evian , who encountered a bomb threat in a mall in Saskatoon this week, AND a bomb threat at work yesterday -- what the hell is happening to us??? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 02:57:47 -0400 From: dsk Subject: NYC Back to Work [long and NJC] Day 1 Monday, September 17, 2001. The only way now to get to where I work is by subway. Normally during the week that's how I'd be getting there from uptown, arriving at work by 8 a.m. Since most businesses start at 9 or 9:30, the trains are crowded at 7:30 but there's still some breathing room, so normally taking the subway is ok. Some days I'd take a cab, an expensive trip but such a pleasant ride down the FDR going along the river to lower Manhattan that it's worth the cost. Not an option today. I'm expected to be there by about 9. I don't want to be on the subway at the height of the rush hour; 2,000 people on one train in a crowded tunnel feels like a good target. Now we're targets instead of just people trying to get to work. After, again, not falling asleep until almost dawn, and not even hearing my alarm clock, I call in the morning and tell the manager I'll be in about noon. Turns out that's fine. Before I'd called I was in a f*ck 'em mood, ready for a fight, knowing even as I felt that way that the managers where I work are not the people I'm getting angry at after a week of barely-being-able-to-move grief. It was the quietest subway ride I've ever experienced. There were lots of people on the train, all subdued. Like the quiet streets on my walk home last Tuesday, such quietness in a subway car is strange too. My anxiety increased with each stop closer to lower Manhattan. I didn't want to go there, not after what I'd seen the Tuesday before. 42nd, 14th, Brooklyn Bridge, Fulton (the main stop for the WTC, some people got out), bypassing the closed Wall Street stop, going slowly past it, yellow police tape stretched column to column, desolate looking, to Bowling Green, the last stop in Manhattan. That's where I got out and went up the escalator. So many people were going the opposite way, running down the stairs into the station, it crossed my mind that something else had happened. National guard soldiers and policemen were at the top of the escalator, looking at us as we got off the escalator. They didn't look panicked so I continued on to the office. Nothing is as clearcut as it used to be. The streets and cars were still covered in ash. A van I passed had its back windows blown out. Sidewalk coffee vendors were back at work, the newsstand on the corner was open, the building I work in was completely undamaged. Before going to my usual floor I went to the lower floor we'd waited on so I could get my bag back, the one with my books and cd player and favorite cds in it. I felt so disoriented, and couldn't find the area we'd been in, and started to panic a little (I'm doing that a lot nowadays when I can't find something right away; I can't tolerate the feeling that anything is lost), finally remembered there'd been a conference room near where we'd waited, so I asked someone at his desk where that was and he pointed me in the right direction. I found my bag exactly where I'd left it, untouched. I was so glad of that, like I was getting a little piece of my life back. So then on to my regular floor and in the hallway the first person I saw was the coordinator I'm friendly with. She asked how I was, I started to tell her, ended up crying, and she just gave me a hug. Everyone was being told to take it easy; there were no pressing projects to be done, we each had to ease back into it at our own pace. Very kind I thought, especially for a high-pressure financial place. There was free food in the cafeteria, which had been open round the clock for days for anyone in the area, especially relief workers, who needed food and a place to rest. I liked hearing the company had done that. It was a day of sharing stories and trying to concentrate on the project I had, which was almost impossible. My brain wasn't working and I had to keep rechecking what I was doing, and redoing. And, as people came in, hearing their stories, asking and being asked how we all were. The words "it's so good to see you" were said often and they will never be the lighthearted words they once were. Day 2 Tuesday, September 18, 2001. Surprisingly, today was more difficult. I was on the train early and again everyone was very quiet. An announcement was made at Brooklyn Bridge that the air on the train would be cut off while we went under lower Manhattan. It was clear why once we got to Fulton Street and the subway doors opened. The smell, the same smell I'd walked through on Tuesday, was strong again. I don't know why. It was there yesterday also, but not nearly as strong as today. It's mostly an electrical fire smell, but we all know everything else we're taking in too with each breath. No one talks about it. I don't know how the rescue workers can tolerate it, not only physically, but emotionally. Again the train went slowly past the closed Wall Street station. It might not ever be opened. I've trudged up those stairs so many times. The company had arranged for a ferry from the upper east side of Manhattan to downtown. I found out about that on Monday and thought that would be better than traveling by subway. Then I thought about how it would be possible to see the changed skyline from the ferry and realized I can't do that yet. Seeing that area as a huge dust cloud last Tuesday ripped my heart out. It's hard enough seeing it now on tv. I don't want to see that emptiness yet. So, on to Bowling Green by subway. Today we couldn't go out our usual exits. All of us had to go out one exit, up escalators I'd never used before, and there was a huge crowd of people at the top, a bottleneck because people then had to go up a staircase to the street and could only get out of the station one by one through barricades, again past many policemen. I was one of the last people on one of the two escalators going up, heading toward this crowd. A man on the escalator next to me started going oh oh oh and I realized then there wasn't any room for him or me to get off. Well, that's pretty scary. What do you do then, when you're stuck on the top step of a moving escalator? As soon as I got there, which was only seconds after he started saying his panicked oh oh oh, I put my hands in the lower back of the guy in front of me, pushed very firmly and said loudly at the same time, "move! we have to get off the escalator." People moved. No one said a word. Again, very strange for New York. Then there was just enough room for me and the person who'd been behind me to get off the escalator, and for the guy on the next escalator too because everyone realized they had to squash forward so we could get off. There's a f*cking challenge at every turn here now. Then we were out on the street and the "dust" cloud was like fog. There were barricades everywhere and we, hundreds of us, ended up walking way down by Battery Park (last time I was there was for a wonderful free July 4th concert by Amy Correira and Emmylou Harris; now it's a National Guard encampment), and walking around buildings until finally there were no more barricades and we could go where we needed to go. There were camera crews all over, and all I could think of was get out of my face. At the building I work in there was a line in the lobby. For the first time ever people had their bags searched and IDs looked at instead of just passing them over the turnstiles. There have always been security men with bomb-sniffing dogs walking around outside the building, 24 hours a day, probably because of the lessons learned from the 1993 terrorist attack on the WTC. There were more of them today, and now bags were being searched. I wondered what they were looking for. Anyway, I finally got in, got to my desk, was glad again to see everyone there, was able to concentrate on what I was doing more than I had been the day before. All day there was a Coast Guard ship in the river. I was uneasy seeing it and glad at the same time that it was there. On the way home I stopped at the drugstore to get batteries for my cd player and also got a new box of Crayola crayons, a 64 pack with built-in sharpener!, and markers and pads of drawing paper. I have boxes of pastels and markers and all sorts of more sophisticated drawing materials and papers, but my 5-year old (?) self was very happy to once again be smelling some crayons. When distressed some people drink, some drug, others go out and beat people up, apparently I draw. (Actually it's more of a scribbling and coloring these days; maybe some thought-out drawings will come later; maybe not.) So I've had three days off and stuck close to home again, only going places I could walk to. Tomorrow, Saturday, is another work day. I can't wait to get back home and draw some more. Maybe listen to some music too. Maybe even be able to make sense of all the messages on the joni list. See ya'll later, Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 00:56:41 -0600 From: evian Subject: chretien government cowardice (njc) With all due respect, I really think this is laughable: > However, Chretien may be afraid of offending the leftist, > anti-American voters that have voted for him or the increasing > number of Muslim voters. > As well, I think it is preposterous that people are suggesting that this is the reason why Chretien has not gone to see Bush -- if we go back to when Bush came to office, we see that our Prime Minister was doing backflips to meet Bush and forge the kind of relationship with him that he had with Clinton, and he still is (to no avail, largely). I'm no liberal (NDP for better or worse), but I have no problem with the PM on his actions thus far. Just because he doesn't immediately pledge full military action (and what military DO we have anyway -- I suspect the pathetic shape of our military has a part to play in his hesitancy) does not mean he is anti-American nor does it mean that we as a country do not support America. Of course we support America! Of course we feel the pain! Of course we want to fight terrorism! However, do we want the leader of our country to say "whatever you say, we will do unquestioning, regardless of what it is or the consequences?" I don't. Evian np: Unforgettable Fire ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #428 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?