From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #426 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, September 21 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 426 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: September 21 [les@jmdl.com] RE: marian russell!!!! njc [M.Russell@iaea.org] RE: heather!!!! (NJC) [M.Russell@iaea.org] FDR, Churchill fan (njc) ["shane mattison" ] Re: FDR, Churchill fan (njc) ["Kakki" ] NJC - re 'why me?' ["Mike Pritchard" ] NJC - Kakki/Kate/Brenda Debate ["Mike Pritchard" ] israel (njc) ["shane mattison" ] Subject: Re: Partisanship and Foreign Policy NJC and very long ["Kate Be] Birthdays njc ["Kate Bennett" ] here comes that weird minor again NJC ["Robert Holliston" ] RE: here comes that weird minor again NJC [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: Blame the Jews pt4/media disinformation, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] Shadows and Light biography ["Paul Castle" ] excerpt: FDR first inaugural speech 1933 ["shane mattison" ] RE: Support Muslim/Arab Americans NJC ["Deb Messling" ] tuck and patti njc [Kammass@aol.com] Re: marian russell!!!! njc ["Victor Johnson" ] FDR fireside chat after pearl harbour (njc) ["shane mattison" ] an addendum [Yael Harlap ] Re: history textbooks NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: "Refuge of the Roads" question, 100% JC [Reuben3rd@aol.com] Re: NJC Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #423 ["Diane Evans" ] Re: Subject: Re: NJC Re: seasons go round VLJC ["Diane Evans" ] Re: Why meeeeeeeee? WHY NOT ME!!! ["Bree Mcdonough" > happy birthday, marian!!!!! > w and the bf Thank you for remembering, wally. Much love, Marian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 09:06:31 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: heather!!!! (NJC) Dear Heather, I hope you had a wonderful birthday! We are almost twins! Love, Marian > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Wally > >Kairuz > >Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 12:30 PM > >To: Bruyere; joni@smoe.org > >Subject: heather!!!! (NJC) > > > > > >happy birthday, heather! > >wally ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 01:54:34 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: FDR, Churchill fan (njc) just so no one misunderstands me...i would get angry at anyone of any party label left or right who allowed my country canada to grow lax on its security against terrorists... i use churchill and FDR as examples of great leadership because they had a certain courage to take on 'ideologues' whether of the left or right...they took on lady astor as well as joe kennedy... roosevelt took on the banks when those interests got selfish... he also took on the appeasers toward nazi germany... churchill took on the conservatives when they were blind to the rise of nazism...so he took on baldwin as well as ramsey-macdonald... and his cabinet in the war was a coalition which could include bevin...(a labour movement leader) because the best policy and often what works best is not socialist nor mere 'business' ideology... so it makes me just as angry when some republicans are dishonest with slogans as well as when democrats pander to self-interest groups and polls... i don't really like politics therefore, (i think society has had a great spiritual decline, primarily) but i am damn frustrated at how our bureaucrats with the liberals have let canada become a playground for terrorists... for those who aren't that familiar with canadian politics, well, there are many who were or are in the ndp (our labour party) who view the liberal behaviour as pure expedience and without principle...sometimes they have liked some conservatives more for being less expedient at the expense of the country... this expedience of some liberals has occurred in britain too, i've been told and i have read... some foreign journalists have made me angry...i'm angry at them, not at people in the list who have been very supportive and caring to the victims of this tragedy... i care for what goes on in the U.K., my father's english and i have lived there... i care for what goes on in the U.S., my mother's american and i lived there... remember churchill and roosevelt were not laissez-faire 'business' conservatives...roosevelt brought electric power to the farmers of the tennesee valley...and scrambled to make jobs for folk, like building dams, when no one would or could hire them... churchill expanded minimum wages and old-age pensions...and cried, honestly, over a bombed-out family in the blitz... oh they weren't perfect...only God is that... i think by todays' standards FDR would be viewed today as a kind of 'conservative' democrat who would nonetheless not be a fan of mere dishonest money-grubbing...and of course would have no sympathy with that traditional southern conservative democrat who may have been racist... by persuasion, i'm a democrat of the FDR or Truman mold... i believe God calls us to remember the fixed income worker and the poor and the people who have fallen through the cracks... now i've gotten things off my chest, i feel better...i at least do not hide around or sneak around so you wouldn't know where i stood... i stand against selfishness and ego of any stripe, left or right and against self-righteousness of cause or platform... yes i wish to God we had churchill and roosevelt in power now... they were great centrists really...but they aren't in power and we have to do the best with what we've got....as FDR said "so help us God..." shane i hope to get back to creativity, so i've signed up for an acrylics course actually! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 00:39:07 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: FDR, Churchill fan (njc) Shane, You are really a sweetheart. You, Mags, Roberto, Stephen, Catherine have all written such truly heartfelt and supportive posts to us. I seriously am ready to move to Canada ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:08:15 +0200 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: NJC - re 'why me?' >I see ignorant people walk down the street and they are holding hand in hand with their loved >ones... Why not me? Maybe because they don't like the fact that you can identify 'ignorant people' merely by looking at them. Mike in Barcelona. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:17:01 +0200 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: NJC - Kakki/Kate/Brenda Debate >>What can we do to demand that the media report more responsibly and work harder to actually educate the nation about a balanced slate of things that matter? (This is not a rhetorical question.)<< Given that almost since its inception the media has too-frequently been used by powerful individuals and powerful corporations to further their own ends, why should you expect it/them to be interested in 'education' and 'balance' now? (This is not a flippant answer). >>Instead of being defensive about why other people in the world may dislike or despise the U.S., let's seek to understand their position. I am not at all advocating validation of the notion that we "deserved" it; I am suggesting that there may be legitimate reasons why people (who are not extremists, radicals or terrorists) hold disdain for our country<<. Exactly. And to suggest this does not mean that you agree with the criticism. >>Most hold disdain for us precisely because of our involvement in their country or other countries<<. Yes. Exactly. >>Or maybe they (other countries) have disdain because they don't like our capitalistic system. If that is the case, that is their problem and not something we have to beat ourselves up about. They are free to have their own system.<< But don't you see that there can be no success (capitalist economical or otherwise) without losers? Nike couldn't pay Michael Jordan (or whoever) enormous sums of money if the people who make the sportswear weren't criminally underpaid? One of the major sports equipment companies in the world pays (or used to pay when I did the research) a blind, 11 year-old Punjabi girl named Sonia less money than it takes to buy a litre of milk. Per day, not per hour. She gets this for sewing the soccer balls which are sold under the name of famous footballers (soccer). (I am thinking of Eric Cantona, but the same thing applies to other sportsmen and sportswomen too). The plantation owners got rich precisely because the slaves were not free. Farmers in Texas and California would not be able to make a profit if they employed legal workers. These things are related. They are not coincidence. There is no choice here. These exploited workers are / were not 'free to have their own system' any more than many countries, including Afghanistan, are free to choose. It is not just 'their problem'. Poverty is a global problem, i.e. everybody's problem and we should all (not only the USA) beat ourselves up about it. Mike. NP Steve Reich 'music for 18 musicians' (while reading the Guardian...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 02:35:07 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: israel (njc) this kooky idea didn't merit a reply, but for the record: the argument that israel knew in advance of the attack on the WTC is absurd, false, and , duh, dumb... think about it...the u.s. would find this out easier than whoever tried to fob this rumour! such an action would represent such a betrayal that israel would never get backing by the u.s. ever again...and would israel risk that? nor are they evil , like the perpetrators of the evil deed! such a false rumour is only the attempt of those who would whitewash the terrorists who did the monstrous crime... Thou shalt not bare false witness! so drop the crazy idea! who do you think we are? shane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 01:06:56 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Re: Partisanship and Foreign Policy NJC and very long Brenda, Thank you for your thoughtful & insightful comments regarding our country's foreign policy history. It concerns me that in this current climate, people are sometimes reluctant to criticize our government for fear that they will be considered unpatriotic. It is a fine line to walk these days.... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 01:16:50 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Birthdays njc Happy Birthday Heather & Marian!!!! ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 01:38:02 -0700 From: "Robert Holliston" Subject: here comes that weird minor again NJC Wishing a happy birthday to Heather (my fellow 55-er) and to Marian, two very bright lights in my life! Here's to many more years of happiness, art, music, friendship, family, and rejoicing. Here's to the JMDL community. Sure, we have our differences, but we meet in a spirit of friendship: at Ashara's, at Julie's, at Michael's, at Kakki's; in England, at David Lahm's splendid Judy's Chelsea. We meet and get together before and after concerts. We welcome other JMDLers into our homes and communities. Every time two JMDLers get together, it's a Jonifest. Or, more importantly, a JMDL fest. I've made some close and enduring friendships with fellow listers, and I'm celebrating that. Heather - we were friends long before we actually met, which we finally did in New York. Since then, I've cherished the times we've spent together, and look forward to many more visits - one of these days, I'll get off my lazy butt and travel to Connecticut... Marian - we met at Ashara's Jonifest in 1999 (earlier, I sent you a tape and you sent me chocolate from Vienna) - my eyes filled up when I had to say goodbye to you at Atty May's.... OK, this is kind of long for a birthday message. We're living in a time of darkness and instability, but being able to wish Heather and Marian - two of the most wonderful people I've ever met - a happy birthday reminds me that there is light. A world that has Heather Galli and Marian Russell living in it is a world well worth living in. Love to everybody, Roberto _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 01:23:42 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC - Kakki/Kate/Brenda Debate Mike wrote: > The plantation owners got rich precisely because the slaves were not free. > Farmers in Texas and California would not be able to make a profit if they > employed legal workers. These things are related. They are not coincidence. > There is no choice here. These exploited workers are / were not 'free to have > their own system' any more than many countries, including Afghanistan, are > free to choose. Well, when we try to "export" our notions of freedom, it gets us in hot water. I don't agree in exploiting people, but those people coming here from Latin America have a much better chance and opportunity than they do in their native countries. I personally have friends whose families came from Mexico and started at the bottom here and they are proud of the U.S. and see exactly what is what. I have been just as much of a slave, starting out at wretched jobs at minimum wage for five years after college (which I paid for, by the way), being grossly underpaid for years, being paid about 25 cents on the dollar compared to men for years before the notion of equal pay for equal work became more standard, living on pasta and potatos and even off fish I caught at the beach for a time! So I am not some fat, spolied capitalist American who has never known hardship and does not know what it is like to struggle.. > It is not just 'their problem'. Poverty is a global problem, i.e. everybody's > problem and we should all (not only the USA) beat ourselves up about it. I am relieved that you are not singling us out here. Other countries should take a look in the mirror, especially the very corrupt and oppressive ones. I do think we deserve some credit for all the aid we have sent around the world for decades (whether we applied it appropriately or not - we meant well and at least did something). Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 11:00:07 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: here comes that weird minor again NJC Wow, Roberto! Thank you for your kind words. It really means a lot to me to know that you think of me in such a nice way. And thank you also for reminding me what a great gift it is to belong to the JMDL family, a very special and dear group of people indeed. Love and best wishes to you, Roberto, and to all my JMDL brothers and sisters! Marian On 21 September 2001 10:38, Robert Holliston [SMTP:roberto1011@hotmail.com] wrote: > Wishing a happy birthday to Heather (my fellow 55-er) and to Marian, two > very bright lights in my life! Here's to many more years of happiness, art, > music, friendship, family, and rejoicing. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:23:06 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Re: Blame the Jews pt4/media disinformation, NJC > > > Laurent & Mike wrote: > > > > > > >>Unrelated but interesting: > > > Just heard that Mr. Arafat has been recently secretly looking out to > > > purchase a 10 carat pink diamond (one of the most expensive diamonds) > from > > > jewelers in Paris via his law firm. Remember for many years IMF aid used > > to > > > be deposited into his own bank account and he would do the > redistributing. > > > I wonder how many families in Gaza he could feed with that money?<< > > > > > > He doesn't say where he heard this. Could it by chance have been on CNN, > > the > > > channel that has been trying to discredit the Palestinians by using > images > > of > > > Arab children celebrating the destruction of the twin towers? The only > > problem > > > is that the images were filmed in 1991. Perhaps Laurent should be > > complaining > > > about anti-Muslim propaganda. Is this manipulation acceptable, and if > not why is nobody complaining? Honourable exceptions to these remarks are John > > Pilger > > > in his book 'Distant Voices' (London, Vintage Books, 1992) and the > > Disposable > > > Heroes of Hiphoprisy's wonderful 'Hypocrisy Is The Greatest Luxury'. As > > Joni > > > herself said, "Land of snap decisions, land of short attention span, > > nothing > > > is savoured long enough to really understand.". > > > > > > And by the way, is there anything evidence that Arafat's keeping money > in > > his > > > personal bank account was used for personal gain or is this just another > > > slur? > > > > ------------------------------ Let's summarize: A few weeks ago I for one complained that the French + British media (I watch BBC news) were echoing arab misinformation and making up storylines to suit the only images that were available, that is the ones filmed on the Israeli side (filming is heavily censored on the Palestinian side). In some cases I feel it's voluntary and in others it's due to journalists' incompetence and ignorance of the whole history behind this conflict. (small anecdote, but I also quoted the Joni line about the land of snap decisions) I find it ironic that now the same logic is used the other way. While I applaud the viewers' heightened sense of criticism regarding images reported by the media, I still deplore the fact that misinformation is everywhere. Regarding CNN, as several people have said this has been debunked. I saw the Palestinian rejoicing on BBC news + French TV, not on CNN. As other people have said, why would Arafat condemn the rejoicing + forbid its filming if it didn't happen? This case is hopefully closed. I just read the post asking whether there's any thruth to 4000 Israelis absent from the WTC on the day of the attack. This is sick and I feel like puking. I'll let you guys investigate, I don't have time right now for such crap. Yes MIKE I condemn anti Muslim propaganda. You know why? Just like the President of the Anti Arab Diffamation League said on CNN a couple of days ago, this is very similar to anti-Jewish propaganda from the beginning of the 20th century (+ other times too). Jews have always been at the forefront of civil rights fights because we know what it's like. Stories of attacks on Muslim families in the U.S. are very sad. It reminds me of Fritz Lang movie "Fury" starring Spencer Tracy. This crazy mob lynching Arabs today is the same that was in the not so distant past lynching blacks, Japanese, Chinese, Jews, gays, gypsies, Protestants, etc. (Obviously I'm not referring to the U.S. only here) Weren't the Irish and the Italian discriminated at in the U.S. at some point? So nobody is immune. It may not be you today but if you don't fight it it may be you tomorrow. It's also very sad that human nature hasn't learned anything. Regarding Arafat's diamond, I got the information first hand from someone at the law firm directly involved in the transaction. This information is an exclusivity for JMDL reader. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:45:13 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Sara K. > Subject: Re: Sara K, Tuck & Patti of interest to Joni fans > > < also PATTI (Tuck & Patti) .>> > > Help me out, Laurent...Sara K? > > I know Sarah Vaughan, Sara McLachlan, and Sara Lee (nobody doesn't like Sara Lee, especially when she's playing bass for Ani D! ;~D) > > As for Patti Cathcart, she's tremendous, and like you say always can be counted on for great music. Tuck Andress is an amazing guitarist! > > Their version of Woodstock is one of my favorites; they really put their own stamp on it. > > Bob > No it's indeed Sara K. She's on Chesky Records in NYC and has about 9 CDs out + 1 DVD (No Cover, same material as the CD with the same title). Just like Joni, each album has a different flavor. (sometimes she uses an accordeonist, or a harmonicist) I wouldn't classify her in jazz, except for the acoustic bass that is used. One cover she made is Oh Well (Peter Green's), to give you an idea. She's as close to Joni as I ever found (and I've looked hard, believe me). She's not trying to be like Joni either, unlike many. When one listens to Sara K., the first question that comes to mind (just like it used to be with Joni for years) is: why isn't she more successful and well-known? PS: Tuck & Patti are playing in Paris on 10/6. I'll fill up the club with my friends. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:30:34 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Shadows and Light biography Last night I turned page 303, totally unaware that this was the last page (apart from the Appendices etc) of Karen O'Brien's engrossing new biography - with the sense of loss more usually associated with the end of a really great novel. For those about to read, prepare yourself for some really late nights, train journeys that flash by, and the overwhelming urge to share stories with the list with each turning page. For now I shall resist as I really don't want to spoil the feast. However, I'm sure no one will mind me quoting from the Acknowlegements :- >>>the Joni Mitchell Discussion List (www.jmdl.com) especially Les Irvin, Jim L'Hommedieu, Joe Farrell, Dave Foer, Mauro Rossi and Simon; the official Joni Mitchell website, jonimitchell.com, Jim Johansen and the late Wally Breese; >>> and in the Covers section of the Discography - "with thanks to Bob Muller." PaulC PS OK OK, I couldn't resist just one - something I could relate to from my own childhood "The family settled into their home at 214 Railway Avenue East; Bill put up a swing in the garden, but one of Joan's favourite pastimes required little more than a chair at the large window in the living-room, at the front of the house. The view across the road to the railway line was to give Joan a literal window on the world, a yearning for the wider universe beyond, symbolised by the rattle and hum of the daily steam train. The young child would perch at the window each day and wave to the driver as the train passed slowly. Years later, long after the family had left Maidstone, her parents met a man who once worked in the area for Canadian railways. When he found out where they'd lived, he recalled his only memory of the unaventful trip along the line through Maidstone - an exuberant tow- haired little girl who'd be waiting each day to exchange a wave." From 'Joni Mitchell: Shadows and Light' by Karen O'Brien Published by Virgin Books Ltd - 4th October 2001 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 03:48:10 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: excerpt: FDR first inaugural speech 1933 This is pre-eminently the time to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Nor need we shrink from honestly facing conditions in our country today. This great nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So first of all let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear. . .is fear itself. . . nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance. In every dark hour of our national life a leadership of frankness and vigor has met with that understanding and support of the people themselves which is essential to victory. I am convinced that you will again give that support to leadership in these critical days. In such a spirit on my part and on yours we face our common difficulties. Only a foolish optimist can deny the dark realities of the moment.They know only the rules of a generation of self-seekers.They have no vision, and when there is no vision the people perish.Happiness lies not in the mere possession of money, it lies in the joy of achievement, in the thrill of creative effort.These dark days will be worth all they cost us if they teach us that our true destiny is not to be ministered unto but to minister to ourselves and to our fellow-men.Recognition of the falsity of material wealth as the standard of success goes hand in hand with the abandonment of the false belief that public office and high political position are to be values only by the standards of pride of place and personal profit, and there must be an end to a conduct in banking and in business which too often has given to a sacred trust the likeness of callous and selfish wrongdoing.Small wonder that confidence languishes, for it thrives only on honesty, on honor, on the sacredness of obligations, on faithful protection, on unselfish performance. Without them it cannot live. Restoration calls, however, not for changes in ethics alone. This nation asks for action, and action now.There are many ways in which it can be helped, but it can never be helped merely by talking about it. We must act, and act quickly. The basic thought that guides these specific means of national recovery is not narrowly nationalistic.It is the insistence, as a first consideration, upon the interdependence of the various elements in and parts of the United States. . . a recognition of the old and permanently important manifestation of the American spirit of the pioneer.It is the way to recovery. It is the immediate way. It is the strongest assurance that the recovery will endure. In the field of world policy I would dedicate this nation to the policy of the good neighbor. . .the neighbor who resolutely respects himself and, because he does so, respects the rights of others. . .the neighbor who respects his obligations and respects the sanctity of his agreements in and with a world of neighbors. If I read the temper of our people correctly, we now realize, as we have never realized before, our interdependence on each other: that we cannot merely take, but we must give as well, that if we are to go forward we must move as a trained and loyal army willing to sacrifice for the good of a common discipline, because without such discipline, no progress is made, no leadership becomes effective. In this dedication of a nation we humbly ask the blessing of God. May He protect each and every one of us! May He guide me in the days to come! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 11:42:17 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Bomb them with butter, bribe them with hope (NJC) The following was forwarded to me, author unknown. It's along the same lines as the earlier message I posted from my friend Mike's friend Terry. Marian + + + + + + + A military response, particularly an attack on Afghanistan, is exactly what the terrorists want. It will strengthen and swell their small but fanatical ranks. Instead, bomb Afghanistan with butter, with rice, bread, clothing and medicine. It will cost less than conventional arms, poses no threat of US casualties and just might get the populace thinking that maybe the Taliban don't have the answers. After three years of drought and with starvation looming, let's offer the Afghani people the vision of a new future. One that includes full stomachs. Bomb them with information. Video players and cassettes of world leaders, particularly Islamic leaders, condemning terrorism. Carpet the country with magazines and newspapers showing the horror of terrorism committed by their "guest". Blitz them with laptop computers and DVD players filled with a perspective that is denied them by their government. Saturation bombing with hope will mean that some of it gets through. Send so much that the Taliban can't collect and hide it all. The Taliban are telling their people to prepare for Jihad. Instead, let's give the Afghani people their first good meal in years. Seeing your family fully fed and the prospect of stability in terms of food and a future is a powerful deterrent to martyrdom. All we ask in return is that they, as a people, agree to enter the civilized world. That includes handing over terrorists in their midst. In responding to terrorism we need to do something different. Something unexpected..something that addresses the root of the problem. We need to take away the well of despair, ignorance and brutality from which the Osama bin Laden's of the world water their gardens of terror. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:48:21 +0100 From: "Paul Headon" Subject: New Joni Music Does anyone know when Joni is to release any new music or when the long awaited tribute album is going to be put on sale please? I have the cash (just) and I'm ready to use it :) Paul Headon Wales - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.277 / Virus Database: 146 - Release Date: 05/09/2001 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 06:22:29 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: Support Muslim/Arab Americans NJC I know there have been anti-Arab and anti-Muslim incidents around the country, and it sucks, but I'm heartened that our leaders are remember to counsel tolerance and pointing out the peaceful precepts of Islam. After Pearl Harbor, did anyone tell us not to hate Japanese-Americans? I don't know, but I'm guessing that anti-Japanese hatred was socially acceptable in a way that anti-Arab hatred is not acceptable today. So, maybe our country, with its share of regrettable lapses, has actually made some progress over the years. I endorse eating at foreign restaurants as a form of social protest! And I plan to heed Rudy G's plea to see more Broadway plays. > I couldn't agree more.I think the hate directed > towards those of > certain ethnic backgrounds here in the U.S. is DESPICABLE. I want > to do what > I can to show support. I will certainly eat at foreign restaurants more. > prejudice is totally unacceptable, as far as I'm concerned. - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling =^..^= - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 04:55:52 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: FDR recording (njc) here's a site for listening to FDR in 1941 when he was aware of the attack from the forces of evil in the world, and on this site you can listen to other speeches of presidents in history: http://www.lib.msu.edu/vincent/presidents/fdr.htm shane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 06:54:33 EDT From: Kammass@aol.com Subject: tuck and patti njc How much fun to be able to see Tuck and Patti in Paris! Wish I was there! kammy in alabammy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 06:54:19 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: marian russell!!!! njc > > happy birthday, marian!!!!! > > w and the bf > A very HFB to Marian who I hope to finally meet next year! And a happy birthday to Heather! Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 05:15:00 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: FDR fireside chat after pearl harbour (njc) I was about to add that ahead there lies sacrifice for all of us. But it is not correct to use that word. The United States does not consider it a sacrifice to do all one can, to give one's best to our nation, when the nation is fighting for its existence and its future life. It is not a sacrifice for any man, old or young, to be in the Army or the Navy of the United States. Rather it is a privilege. It is not a sacrifice for the industrialist or the wage earner, the farmer or the shopkeeper, the trainmen or the doctor, to pay more taxes, to buy more bonds, to forego extra profits, to work longer or harder at the task for which he is best fitted. Rather it is a privilege. It is not a sacrifice to do without many things to which we are accustomed if the national defense calls for doing without it. (entire fireside chat:) http://www.mhrcc.org/fdr/chat19.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 07:29:00 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: marian russell!!!! njc Happy Birthday Marian! I've yet to meet you in person, but it was wonderful to talk to you at Ashara's this year. I'll take a seat in your workshop next year at Jonifest. PS: I quit my standard tuning guitar lessons much love, Rose rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 07:30:11 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: heather!!!! (NJC) Happy Birthday Grandma Heather!!!! love, Rose rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:13:10 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: New Joni Music Nobody knows when those records are coming out, Paul! :~( BUT... Bobstradamus predicts Fall 2002 will see the release of Joni's 2-CD set, reworking her previous material. Bobstradamus also foresees that the "Have Yourself a Dreary Little Christmas" project will never materialize. But wait, there's more in the tea leaves...Bobstradamus sees that the sleeping fools at Reprise (the same ones who rejected Wilco's adventurous new one, only to have 30 labels enter a bidding war for it) will capitalize on Joni's triumphant appearance in Toronto in October, coupled with the new Bio, and release the Official Tribute in late November. The perfect stocking stuffer! But keep in mind, "unofficial" tributes come out on a monthly basis, and the 'addicts' are growing by the month! :~) Bob NP: New Macy Gray, great soul! Macy beats the sophomore slump! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:16:45 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: A tribute to Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and Jim Bakker written by Frank Zappa(njc) YES!!! This is great! i Have heard that Zappa did a Beatles Medley on the 88' tour but I didnt know the lyrics had been changed... Thank you so much for sending this! What a wonderful tribute! BLair _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:16:30 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Shadows and Light biography << "with thanks to Bob Muller." >> Oh Paul, you are quite the tease...reading the new book before I can get it! Oh well, turnabout is fair play, I guess! ;~) Very cool to get that mention too...I pass the credit along to Les, who gave me the vehicle to store and display the data, and to all my JMDL bro's and sis's whose enthusiasm for this project has kept me searching, bidding, buying, burning, and lovin' every moment! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:21:07 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: Support Muslim/Arab Americans NJC >I am disgusted that there are people who don't feel safe being outside. In >my opinion, we all need to pull together and support each other. > >Mary AMEN!! Blair _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:27:51 EDT From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Re: Why meeeeeeeee? WHY NOT ME!!! In a message dated Thu, 20 Sep 2001 9:12:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AzeemAK@aol.com writes: > It isn't a debate about anything as far as I'm concerned, Kakki. I expressed > ignorance at what Brian's post was getting at Hello, as a new JMDL-er, I agree with Azeem in terms of not knowing what is being referred to. If I searched the archives, I wouldn't have a clue as to what I'm looking for. Could someone help me out, maybe by emailing me off-list? I'd appreciate it. confused, Mary ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:32:48 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: excerpt: FDR first inaugural speech 1933 I think it is great that someone is quoting FDR. You rock Shane. Blair _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:29:56 -0400 From: Yael Harlap Subject: history textbooks NJC Brenda wrote: >It's hard for me to specifically comment on this because I don't know >what textbooks today contain - which is why I would love to hear from >any teachers on the list. I highly recommend James W. Loewen's book "Lies My Teacher Told Me" (subtitled: Everything your American history textbook got wrong). He does a critical analysis of the 11 major high school American history textbooks and shows how horrible they are! It is a fascinating read. For anyone who doesn't feel like they have a good sense of what the United States has done abroad with its foreign policy and covert actions, try reading Noam Chomsky's "What Uncle Sam Really Wants." You may not agree with his conclusions (I happen to agree, but he is very radical), but all of his evidence comes from the public record - largely classified documents released 50 years later, as U.S. law requires. Nothing like Chomsky to make you see the world from a different perspective. Brenda, I've really enjoyed your posts on these issues. For the record, I was also bothered by Bree's sentiments but I wouldn't express it the way Nuriel did. I feel like many (though not all) of the arguments on this list are caused by people expressing their ideas in ways which demean or trivialize others. I am a pacifist, but even if I weren't as extreme in my anti-war views I would still be bothered by the nationalistic and aggressive rhetoric being thrown around by U.S. leaders and then also segments of the population. It doesn't SURPRISE me - the United States is a violent country - culturally this is how problems are solved, often domestically (within the home, I mean), nationally, internationally. I think that being an oppressor makes one violent - that might be a necessary arm of an oppressive regime. And while we can have zillions of discussions and arguments over whether the State oppresses groups of Americans (I believe it does), I believe that a person with information about U.S. foreign policy history cannot really argue with the statement that the U.S. maintains a positionality of dominance over countries of the South (=not-completely accurate terminology to replace "developing" or "Third World" because why should we dictate what groups of people should be developing towards, and who got to decide who is the "First World"? Well, we did, of course). As I was saying, dominance over Southern nations because we benefit greatly from their policies towards us which enable our extracting labor and resources from them, our exploitation. My impression is that this is undisputable, but I am sure there are folks here who dispute it - I'd be interested in seeing how or why... We in the U.S. live in a culture of violence. Of course, we aren't the only ones. But we have elevated it to an art form and trained others in it. And we who have been raised within it (ok, I wasn't entirely raised within it because I grew up abroad, but I was distal to it) have to struggle to awaken our critical consciousness so that we can recognize it and understand it. That is my belief. I have a long way to go but still I struggle. And I am against the war. - -Yael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:37:19 -0400 From: Yael Harlap Subject: an addendum Hi- I just read Shane's email soon after Brenda's that I responded to, and I wanted to add... I don't think there is anything wrong with examining U.S. policy and behavior. That doesn't imply that I think the U.S. "deserved" this tragedy. Of course I don't think that! It was horrible, I was horrified and stunned and affected deeply and I haven't even lost anyone personally. In fact, I struggle with the fact that I can feel even marginally relieved that none of my friends were in the WTC or the Pentagon when so many lives have been lost. But while this was a terrible occurrence, these attacks, I think that we have a teachable moment. Wouldn't it be worse to let this time pass and lose an opportunity for critical reflection? Most American citizens, as Brenda pointed out, are quite ignorant about foreign issues, US foreign policy, other parts of the world in general. Isn't this a good opportunity to wake people to the rest of the world, and a chance to consider our place in it? Mourning follows tragedy, and rightfully so. Learning can also follow. - -Yael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:49:03 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: history textbooks NJC Yael Harlap wrote: > For anyone who doesn't feel like they have a good sense of what the United > States has done abroad with its foreign policy and covert actions, try > reading Noam Chomsky's "What Uncle Sam Really Wants." You may not agree > with his conclusions (I happen to agree, but he is very radical), but all > of his evidence comes from the public record - largely classified documents > released 50 years later, as U.S. law requires. Nothing like Chomsky to make > you see the world from a different perspective. His Manufacturing Consent is brilliant. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 09:39:49 EDT From: Reuben3rd@aol.com Subject: Re: "Refuge of the Roads" question, 100% JC Lama wrote: >>Ah, yes, the 60 minute, out-of-print "Refuge Of The Roads" video. I don't know if it was ever available on Laser Disk but the VHS Hi-Fi is out-of-print.<< There are 3 or 4 copies available on ebay at the moment...I saw them yesterday. Reuben np: Everything But The Girl "Worldwide" "I know we'd miss the football and the dancing...and you'd worry that the people hered' be talking, but that's nothing." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:54:10 -0500 From: "Diane Evans" Subject: Re: NJC Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #423 Bob wrote: > >Actually Rich, your response was on-list! Good thing you didn't write Diane >a love letter! ;~) > >Bob > >NPIMH: "Little ditty, 'bout Rich & Diane..." :~D Oh, my! I blush! And it's so clever of me: my husband's name is also Richard! ;-D _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:24:58 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: history textbooks NJC I am going to add a footnote, Also read Howard Zinn's "the People's History of the United States" which I can imagine is on the same line with Chomsky and may be a bit radical, but a great read indeed... Blair >reading Noam Chomsky's "What Uncle Sam Really Wants." You may not agree >with his conclusions (I happen to agree, but he is very radical), but all >of his evidence comes from the public record - largely classified documents >released 50 years later, as U.S. law requires. Nothing like Chomsky to make >you see the world from a different perspective. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 09:51:48 -0500 From: "Diane Evans" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: NJC Re: seasons go round VLJC Kate, While visiting with friends and family this past weekend (a wedding!) I heard from most of my aunts and uncles that "they come back." I found it interesting to note some said those words with a wink and grin while others didn't say it so much as *sigh* it. Okay, I'll consider this forray [of my daughter's] into the real world as with training wheels. She'll be back frequently for dinner and laundry and car repair advice, I'm sure. ;-) I'm glad I have this time to get used to it before she heads out to college in another part of the country next year. Regarding your son: >So we >are in the midst of making this happen with as little heart ache as >possible... I think you're so right to do it, though. We have a friend who, at age 49, has never left his parents' home for more than a few months at a time. He has become more dependant upon them as the years pass than he was before. We love them so dearly and it's great to see them reciprocate, but "how do you stop from going too far?" Best of wishes, Diane _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:14:25 -0500 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Happy Birthday NJC To Heather, a new friend, and to Marian, and internet friend, Celebrate your life today, Let the dance in your heart Reach out through you To the rest of the world I will dance with you, my love Cherishing each precious moment Happy Birthday, My lover, my friend... I love you----------------------- Found this in a coffehouse I played in years ago, written on a knapkin... I always thought it was beautiful... Steve Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:15:23 -0700 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Why meeeeeeeee? WHY NOT ME!!! >From: Nuriel Tobias >Reply-To: Nuriel Tobias >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Why meeeeeeeee? WHY NOT ME!!! >Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 16:52:42 -0700 (PDT) > >Why do i have to read this sick email on the joni mitchell list?! > Surely my post was not intellectually over your head because it was very plain speak. I have to conclude that for some people truth just really hurts too much. Reality check bites some people in the ass a little harder than others! "I've lost all taste for life I'm all complaints Tell me why do you starve the faithful? Why do you crucify the saints? And you let the wicked prosper You let their children frisk like deer, And my loves are dead or dying,or they don't come near Already on a bed of sighs and screams, And still you torture me with visions You give me terrifying dreams! Better I was carried from the womb straight to the grave I see the diggers waiting,they're leaning on their spades And where is hope while you're wondering what went wrong? What is the reason for your heavy hand? Was it the sins of my youth? What have I done to you? Joni Mitchell--from The Sire of Sorrow(Job's Sad Song) (taken somewhat out of context, but you get her point) (A lister reminded me of the "bombers turning into butterflies"-Joni's utopia) Perhaps on all future Joni CD"S they should stamp them saying: TO be played by GROWN-UPS ONLY. (not for the faint of heart) Bree +_______________________________________________________________ > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > >_____________________________________________________________ >Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! >Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 12:00:35 EDT From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: supporting arab-americans (njc) In my neighborhood (Hayes Valley in S.F.) there are two Arab-American owned businesses, a health food store and a corner market. Every store in the neighborhood, and many in the city, have bright orange NO HATE ZONE signs in their windows. Fortunately, I haven't witnessed any harrassment or abuse, but I know it's going on in the Bay Area. Idiots are taking advantage of the current situation to do what they would already be doing (or have been thinking of doing) for some time, thinking they can get away with it now. Sad. Best we can do is to continue to support the store and market owners. On Sept 11 and the day after, the manager of the local market stood at the door and warmly shook the hand of everyone who came in. He was as aggrieved as everyone else... Walt ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #426 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?