From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #424 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, September 20 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 424 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: September 20 [les@jmdl.com] It must be me! (NJC) [RobSher50@aol.com] NJC After the rush when you come back down.... ["hell" ] NJC Oh, for crying out loud..... ["hell" ] LOTC Boots ["Ron Greer" ] Don Freed [James Leahy ] RE: NJC Oh, for crying out loud..... [M.Russell@iaea.org] NJC Re: seasons go round VLJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: NJC Re: seasons go round VLJC ["Suze Cameron" ] Re: NJC Re: seasons go round VLJC [Don Rowe ] heather!!!! (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: The attack (NJC) [Scott Price ] Re: NJC - The *Israeli* (???) bombing of the WTC LONG ["Lori R. Fye" ] A tribute to Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and Jim Bakker written by Frank Zappa(njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] understood njc ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: Kakki/Kate Debate: Partisanship and Foreign Policy NJC and very long ["Kakki" ] Re: background on bin ladin and other special articles (njc) [ Subject: NJC After the rush when you come back down.... ..... you realise you've missed mentioning quite a few people in your 'fest report, and decide that you'd better make amends, otherwise they may never speak to you again. Or they'll talk about you behind your back. I'm STILL not going to mention everyone, because I didn't really get to talk to everyone, but there were a few noticeable omissions: Sue C - great to finally meet you at last, and share a laugh or seventeen (read between the lines, baby!) Bob Murphy - he's already reminded me that I forgot him the first time, so he'll probably start pouting if I don't do it "officially". Lovely to meet you Mr. Murphy, you're a very nice man (snigger, snigger). No honestly, he is. No, really! Kay A - someone else I shared a few laughs with, which I hope you will remember with a smile over the next few weeks (and your "skill" at handling Pippin stills makes me giggle!) Catherine M - someone I wanted to share a few laughs with, but never got the chance - something we can rectify next year! Chris M - another foreigner (like me) who I could make fun of the Yanks with (we didn't really, honest!) Patrick L - loved chatting with you, and again, I hope your memories of Jonifest are bringing a smile to your face There are probably still some people out there who are mortally offended that I haven't mentioned them. Look, just put it down to brain-cells destroyed in my youth, and the inability (apparently) of remembering people I met yesterday, let alone 3 weeks ago. Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 23:28:25 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: NJC Oh, for crying out loud..... Yes, I forgot someone else! Someone that it appears everyone forgot. Marian! It was such a thrill to chat to Marian on the Friday night of Jonifest. She was on the phone for probably an hour or more, getting passed from person to person, just to be a part of the event. It was great to talk to you in person at last - hopefully we can do it properly at next year's fest! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 13:47:46 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: LOTC Boots Hi <> <> <> here in sa there is another one of those going round. it is called "big yellow taxi" and has the lotc tracks rearranged, and some very dubious sound quality. but at least the cover is slightly better, it has a photo of joni, with a kind of a pukey yellow background. it sells at around half the price of the real lotc, and i have seen it a most of the major music store. the package indicates that it originates from spain. & something for the bill gates conspiracy theorists - try the following type Q33NY (must be uppercase) make it large change the font to "wingdings" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 07:52:33 -0500 From: James Leahy Subject: Don Freed Saw a lovely documentary on Donald Freed on the CBC's National news program a couple of weeks ago. The program showed Freed teaching songwriting to Native Canadian children in a Saskatchewan school. The children were encouraged to create songs out of their own culture and experiences. Freed's dedication impressed me. He talked about how unsatisfying it was to work as a soloist in clubs and folk festivals and about how his own 'ego' had no place in his work with the Native kids. (There was no mention of Her Blondness.) Several of the songs the children wrote are being recorded and will be released on CD later this year. The CBC may have something about this on their website at cbc.ca. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 14:00:39 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: NJC Oh, for crying out loud..... It was great chatting to you, too, Hell, and I hope I'll get to meet you in person at next year's fest, which, if Ashara can pull it off, I should be able to attend. I loved talking on the phone to everyone, even if only to just say "Hi". Loved hearing Jim L'Hommideau talk about capturing good ideas, and hearing Jeff talk about learning to play Joni's songs on guitar. The best thing happened at the beginning of the hour when I got to hear Claude playing "Who KNows Where The Time Goes" - so beautiful, I had goosebumps and couldn't stop trying to harmonize over the phone, which probably sounded pretty weird to Michael Paz :^D, but I will always remember sharing that moment with you Michael - I felt like I was there and it was magic! Love, Marian On 20 September 2001 13:28, hell [SMTP:hell@ihug.co.nz] wrote: > Yes, I forgot someone else! Someone that it appears everyone forgot. > Marian! > > It was such a thrill to chat to Marian on the Friday night of Jonifest. She > was on the phone for probably an hour or more, getting passed from person to > person, just to be a part of the event. > > It was great to talk to you in person at last - hopefully we can do it > properly at next year's fest! > > Hell > ____________________________ > "To have great poets, there must be > great audiences too." - Walt Whitman > > hell@ihug.co.nz > Hell's Personal Photo Page: > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm > > Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: > http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 08:39:43 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: seasons go round VLJC <> Diane, I can't speak for all parents, but I can relate to your post for sure! I'm a couple years away from "Empty Nest" syndrome, and the bittersweet experience of hoping that you've given your 'sweet bird' the wings to fly, but my 10th-grade son has his first girlfriend, and they are both all mushy for each other. He's in a state of bliss now, but I can't help but think that it will end at some point and he'll have to deal with the heartbreak. Makes me sad to think about it, but it's a part of life... Bob NP: Stevie Wonder, "If It's Magic" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 11:57:33 -0400 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: Re: NJC Re: seasons go round VLJC Hi Diane, I was thinking of how you were doing with this having spoken about it in June. I get all teary-eyed thinking of when my girls go off on their own two years from now. What will be hard is their graduation as my husband is on the school board and hands out the diplomas and I am their advisor and have to give a speech. Don't know how I will get through it without a big boo-hoo (attemping Joni content). Advice from other listers? n.p. David Blue - Lover Lover Lover Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S. http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 09:00:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: NJC Re: seasons go round VLJC - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > my 10th-grade son has his first girlfriend, and they > are both all mushy for each other. He's in a state > of bliss now, but I can't help but think that it > will end at some point and he'll have to deal with > the heartbreak Don't ask me why, but this reminded me of the day I found out for sure that my Dad was totally cool. Set your WayBack machines for the Summer of '81. I'm home from Freshman year college ... and had been trying to keep my relationship with my girlfriend at the time going across the distance between Philly & Dallas. Dad asked me to meet him for lunch one afternoon. So in the midst of our conversation he asks: "So how's Jennifer?" She's great, I say. "No ... I mean, how is she ... in bed?" "OH HOLY CHRIST!" I'm instantly thinking in an adolescent blind panic "I AM SO BUSTED!" But I remain clear-headed enough to know I'd better not try and flim-flam the old man at this point. "That's ... good too" I tell him, looking him in the eye as I say it. What the heck, I've got nothing left to lose. "Well", he says, "I'm imagining it'll last just about as long as you keep thinking that." I nod as sheepishly as only an 18-something kid can ... end of subject. At least, until we're leaving, when Dad said: "Oh, and we won't tell your mother about our conversation today." And you know something? I don't think he ever did. Of course, in the end, Jenny & I lasted almost exactly as long as he predicted. It broke my heart sure, but Dad had pretty much prepared me for it. Which is to say, I guess, that an empty nest can still be filled with memories. Thanks for the trip down memory lane! ;-) Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 13:29:54 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: heather!!!! (NJC) happy birthday, heather! wally ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 09:29:00 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: The attack (NJC) At 08:13 PM 9/19/01 -0700, Mark in Seattle wrote: >A co-worker walked over to the Seattle Center on his lunch break this >week as they were hauling the flowers away. The local news said there >were more than a million flowers in the fountain. Hi Mark, Your words captured this scene beautifully. I also heard on last night's news that they were planning to mulch all those flowers for later use in a "peace garden" to be planted near the fountain. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 10:18:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: NJC - The *Israeli* (???) bombing of the WTC LONG Ron, thank you for posting the letter from someone on the "other side of the fence." Interesting and very uncomfortable concepts to ponder. > 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day of the Attack (reliable?) Does anyone know if the above is reliable? I did read somewhere (but now can't remember where) about the Israelis detained for "puzzling behavior" after the attacks. Does anyone have additional info about that? Lori, sincerely NOT wanting to start a flame war, in MD ~ __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 14:07:51 EDT From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Jonatha Brook(e) -- njc Several people have mentioned Jonatha Brook(e) in passing. Some years back, my sister in Massachusetts sent me a wonderful tape, The Story: The Angel in the House. When I asked her recently, she said the Jonatha B. and Jennifer Kimball had broken up (both musically and as a couple, I believe) some time back, and that she thought Jonatha was still recording... Can anyone catch me up on Jonatha's recent recordings -- and is she hard to find? Thanks -- walt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 14:18:29 EDT From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Mark E's description of flowers etc. at Seattle Center Yeah, this sort of scene is being repeated all over the US. Whever something big happens, there is an informal "Instant Memorial" site at the corner of Castro and 18th here in SF (i.e., lgbt central). Flowers, baloons, cards, posters, etc. Nice that the B of A always lets it go on -- it's on their property, not public property. Walt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 14:31:22 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Jonatha Brook(e) -- njc <> Funny you mention it, Big Walt...just last night I was driving home with my son from the tennis courts, and had her 2001 release 'Steady Pull' in the player. The title track was playing, it was a pretty night, and I had the windows rolled down and was just thinking about what a GREAT record it is and how it should have been a big smash breakthrough for her. Her recordings are not hard to find at all, and she toured earlier this year, I don't have the latest on her road schedule. But she does make the rounds, she's very fan-friendly and accessible, and well-worth the bucks to see her live. JMDLer's will eventually recommend ALL of her recordings to you, and you truly can't go wrong with any of them. Plumb is probably still my favorite, with Steady Pull nipping at its heels. The Story CD you reference is also wonderful. And just this week I picked up The Story's first record, 'Grace in Gravity' for $2 on E-Bay. Anxious to hear it. So go forth & enjoy! Bob NP: World Party, "Take It Up" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 14:34:58 EDT From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Reducing stress levels (njc) This was sent to me by a college buddy who teaches high school history. He has a great suggestion for reducing stress. Though you might enjoy it. ...read from "How's everything going?" to "Argh" to my class. They're sitting here now quietly taking a test. I am sure I must be ADD - I can't stand it when it is so quiet in here. I want to run around the room screaming with a pair of scissors in my hand. In fact, that's just what I ended up doing during A block's test today. Followed that up B block with my high-strung Advanced Placement kids (the ones in the interview) with a Mr. Rogers dress alike class. Sent the following out to them last night: >Annie Coppock emails that her current stress level is at about a ten. I >suggested she do what I do when I get overly stressed - pretend I'm Mr. >Rogers. > >I invite any of you to join me tomorrow in class (our neighborhood) wearing >cardigan sweaters and slippers. > >Tha's right boys and girls... About half of them turned up a la Fred R including me. I even had Mr. Trolley with me. We read from the transcripts of Anne Hutchinson's trial which ended up getting a little bizarre. I wonder, at times, how they will remember things like that when they are oldsters like us. Someone else here recommended "Wooden Boats." Sounds like a good read. I enjoyed Tracy Kidder's "House" a million years ago and more recently a book "Catapult" (author escapes me at the moment - true story - premise was a couple of geeks like you and me got an NEA grant to build a catapult and fire it as some kind of form of performance art). Sounds as if "Wooden Boats" might be a good blend of the two. Hmmmm - instead of running around with scissors I just got another idea. I have this sleeve of disposable styrene plastic cup in my desk drawer for just such situations. I hide it under my arm while wearing a sweater or suit juacket and ask, innocently, "Is there anyone here who is good at cracking necks?" Then when they do me I crunch the cup - VERY convincing noise that shakes people up. If I REALLY want to get the most out of it I drop to the ground and pretend I'm having convulsions. (Thank you, Penn and Teller for that little trick... actually my Dad got it from them and HE passed it on to me - my hero!) I'll let you know how it goes... John ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 11:21:11 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Scheer lied about $43 million (njc) geesh, thanks kakki, if this is true than it really sucks that scheer would right so irresponsibly...i plan to write him his email is on his site) & ask him to explain what the hell he was thinking...i am glad that this article says the govt bypassed the taliban & actually trust info coming from the uk more than in our own country's media, sad to say... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 11:48:13 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Buckley and Starsailor NJC Jason, Bill & Rob Thanks for writing back with the correction on the release date. I look forward to hearing your opinions of the album. Brenda n.p.: Mercury Rev - "The Dark Is Rising" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 12:13:47 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Scheer lied about $43 million (njc) Kate wrote: >i am glad that this article says the govt bypassed the >taliban & actually trust info coming from the uk > more than in our own country's media, sad to say... I also go straight to UK media whenever there are major events and issues happening in the U.S. or the world. The media in the U.S. has been in a sorry state for a long time now. I have found more information in the links below for you that may help clarify the situation. These links come from the "Media Awareness Project" which states that they are "a worldwide network dedicated to drug policy reform. We inform public opinion and promote balanced media coverage." These articles come from the U.K., Australia and France, and seem to be straightforward. I have no reason not to believe them. Another source you may want to check out is the United Nations, who figures prominently in the aid given to Afghanistan and other countries. Kakki http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n1012/a04.html http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n742/a11.html http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v99/n000/a009.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 16:16:24 EDT From: RPWieloh@cs.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #423 In a message dated 9/20/01 3:15:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << diquintevans@hotmail.com >> Diane,resopndig off-list,if you don't mind.Yes,you are correct all parents feel as you do including us with 2 of our 3 children leaving the downtrodden mid east and looking for adventure and opportunity in palaces like the Pacific northwest and the romance and outdoors of Wyoming. After education's were completed they were compelled to follow our enlightened view of the future and peruse a life that we had nurtured because of what we had instilled in the way of exposing our family to the vast outdoors and the "spirit of youth".I'll bet you can associate with some of this. The dichotomy of raising children today is at best knowing they are showing and independent spirit and love for life we gave but now wish we could provide protection and nurturing. Any thoughts? Sincerely, Rich Wieloh ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 16:21:57 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #423 <> Actually Rich, your response was on-list! Good thing you didn't write Diane a love letter! ;~) Bob NPIMH: "Little ditty, 'bout Rich & Diane..." :~D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 17:10:18 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: and the painted ponies bite your hands VLJC Bob, What a great memory. You know, one thing I have not experienced yet is Love or any fragment of it... I am 21 and have never had a girlfriend nor a boyfriend in my life and it sort of worries me, I see ignorant people walk down the street and they are holding hand in hand with their loved ones... WHy not me? I guess it will come when it comes.. Maybe I am too picky. Nonthelles,, I am just glad that MY father didnt try to have a conversation like that with me!! :) But another thing, so much of Joni's music deals with LOVE and the like.. It really shows how good her music is, cause even though I cannot relate to most of it, It moves me. "A Case of You" almost brings me to tears as it does to many on this list.. but when you come down to it.. I have NO reason to be crying... Funny BLAIR NP: "StoneD soul PIcnic" Laura Nyro _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 17:15:19 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Here is Something We CAn DO!!! NJC I am sending this out just once more incase anyone didnt get a chance to see this. Blair > > Everyone, > I know it is hard for people especially those who live far away to >contribute to the rescue workers or just to give their thanks for what is >being done. Here is a small way, we can each contribute! Near Lincoln >Center is Fire Station 35 and so far they have lost about a dozen men. >There is a table outside covered with flowers and letters. The production >staff at Juilliard has been asking anyone from anywhere in the world to >send >their gratittude to the work that these people are doing. So, if you live >in Macon, Georgia for example, send a postcard from your town, or a letter >just simply saying, "THANKS". I think since this list is filled with such >beautiful people, who all care for eachother and have been coping together >despite all arguments, we can give back something to these people. > The addresss is, > Ladder Company 35 > NYC Fire Departement > 131 Amsterdam Avenue >NY, NY 10023 > Thank you all again, I am sorry this doens have a NJC tag, >but i wanted to include everyone. > MUch love >Blair > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 14:46:43 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Kakki/Kate Debate: Partisanship and Foreign Policy NJC and very long I've been following the Kakki/Kate debate with keen interest, mostly because I have seen very little specifically designated "left/right" discourse since 9/11. The backseat that partisanship has taken generally over the last week can perhaps provide room for reflection while we mourn. Here are some opinions, questions and resources. Delete now if you are tired of political discussions. *Media* Spending our summer with the media full of Gary Condit seems utterly ridiculous now. What can we do to demand that the media report more responsibly and work harder to actually educate the nation about a balanced slate of things that matter? (This is not a rhetorical question; I really want to know what I can do - write letters, buy a share of stock and voice an opinion at shareholder meetings, etc. Any suggestions would be appreciated.) *U.S. World Illiteracy* I wonder how many Americans could identify Afghanistan on a map before last week. Or name more than one of its neighbors. In fact, I wonder how many could do it now! Many people are saying that we as a nation will never be the same. I hope so. Not that we should sacrifice liberty and live in fear, but we should accept that we are not immune and we can no longer pretend that isolationism in any form works. After slagging off the U.N., we now must turn to it to galvanize support for our crusade -- whoops, I mean campaign. ; ) From my view, when people outside of the U.S. say that we have been humbled, it is this that they are speaking about. I hope that we seek to understand more about the world from which we've tried to separate ourselves. Instead of being defensive about why other people in the world may dislike or despise the U.S., let's seek to understand their position. I am not at all advocating validation of the notion that we "deserved" it; I am suggesting that there may be legitimate reasons why people (who are not extremists, radicals or terrorists) hold disdain for our country. There was a program on ABC over the weekend where Sam Donaldson and Carson Daly (what?!) were discussing the attacks and it's consequences with teens and pre-teens. The question came from the kids repeatedly - why did this happen to us? The response seemed to uniformly be that the terrorists hate us. I hope that there are more sophisticated discussions happening in schools. I think alot of kids could understand it, if it is explained to them. I would love to hear from any teachers on the list who could speak about what is being said in classrooms. *The War - "Operation Infinite Justice?"* I'm very concerned about the ongoing rhetoric in the media and from government leaders which places the focus on Bin Laden. We cannot be lulled into the notion that this is simply about one man, his capture and the shut down of his network. This is no longer just about terrorism, and never really was. Pakistan is between a rock and a hard place. Agreeing to allow our troops on the ground and in their airspace could lead to prolonged unrest (and possibly civil war) in that country. Once we move, the stability of the region will be at great risk. Can anyone point to a source (government or otherwise) that discusses what our reaction will be in that case? If we are successful at rooting out Bin Laden and then decide to withdraw while Pakistan is in shambles, could we really blame the people if they hate us? *Domestic Policy and Foreign Policy* Here's an interesting piece from the June 1995 issue of the Atlantic: "The Domestic Core of Foreign Policy" http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/foreign/dcore.htmWhere This opening is quite prophetic: "Our task now is not so heroic as fighting a war, but it may be as important: to recognize our limitations, to reject the vanity of trying to remake the world in our image, and to restore the promise of our neglected society." Where does partisanship belong when domestic policy and foreign policy are inextricably tied together and we as a nation (based on the election) appear to be split right down the middle? I often wonder what people of other countries think about our partisan discords. Anyone out there care to give a view? Here are some things that I've been reading (and recommend) for additional perspective: U.S. Policy Toward Political Islam - Critique that provides some perspective for those who can't understand why others hate us. Most of the work on this site is by academics and there is some balance in the presentation. http://fpif.org/briefs/vol6/v6n24islam.html Foreign Affairs magazine special briefing on the terrorist attacks: http://www.foreignaffairs.org/home/terrorism.asp If you've gotten this far, thanks for reading. And please share your thoughts. Brenda n.p.: CNN-FN ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 16:12:46 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: larry king tonite 9ET (njc) larry king should be interesting tonite with a few of my favourite senators as well as sheryl crow. 9 pm after the president's address. shane ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 18:17:39 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: A tribute to Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and Jim Bakker written by Frank Zappa(njc) Texas Medley (Lennon/Mc Cartney Lyrics Adapted By Frank Zappa) (a) Norwegian Jim (Norwegian Wood) (b) Louisiana Hooker With Herpes (Lucy In The Sky) (c) Texas Motel (Strawberry Fields) (a) Norwegian Jim (Norwegian Wood) (That's right!) Jim... once had a girl, or should we say, she once had he. She... showed him her room, isn't it swell, Texas Motel. She asked him to stay and she told him to sit anywhere. So Jim looked around and he noticed there wasn't a prayer. Jim... took off his rug, biding his time, pounding his pud. He... prayed until two, and then she said, "How 'bout some head?" (Everybody!) She said she was booked in the morning with Falwell and Pat. Jim told her he wasn't, and dribbled some spoo in her lap. And... when he awoke, he was alone, she'd honed his cone. So... he let her fly, isn't it swell, Texas Motel (b) Louisiana Hooker with Herpes (Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds) (Meanwhile...) Picture yourself with a whore in New Orleans, with big purple welts, all over her bod. Suddenly someone, you answer quite slowly, It's the board from Assembly O' God. Ignorant crackers like you've never seen, groveling under your bed. Search for the girl with the spoo in her lap, and she's gone! Louisiana hooker with herpes. Louisiana hooker with herpes. Louisiana hooker with herpes. Owwww! We saw her go down to a room near the airport Where Jimmy gets off watching pornographie Everyone smiles as we tread through his horseshit That grows so incredibly high. Newspaper writers appear at his door, waiting to take Jim away He climbs in the back with his head up his ass, and he's gone! Louisiana hooker with herpes. Louisiana hooker with herpes. Louisiana hooker with herpes. Owwww! Picture yourself on your own TV station With brain-dead supporters with tears in their eyes Suddenly someone is there at commercial, The girl with the pee-hole surprise Louisiana hooker with herpes. Louisiana hooker with herpes. Louisiana hooker with herpes. Owwww! Ow! (Everybody!) Louisiana hooker with herpes. Louisiana hooker with herpes. (That's Right!) Louisiana hooker with herpes. Owwww! Ow! (c) The Texas Motel (Strawberry Fields) (Then Jimmy looks over to the hooker And he says, very tenderly of course...) Let me take you down, 'cause we're going to... the Texas Motel Don't mind the smell It's nothing to get hung about Please leave your cash on the table Weeping looks better with eyes closed... While I'm confessing all my sins (Oh, I've sinned so much, please forgive me!) It's getting hard to plook someone, but it all works out. It's all pornography to Jim. Let me take you down, 'cause we're going to... the Texas Motel We might go to hell But we'll have lots of company Falwell and Pat and that weasel No one knows who's in my dream... I mean it must be high or low. That is, I can't you know, tune in, but it's all right. (I mean that.) That is, I think it's not too bad. (Actual testimony of John Poindexter) Let me take you down, 'cause we're going to... the Texas Motel Don't mind the smell It's just some jizz from Jimmy-boy How 'bout some hay for the donkey? No one knows, sometimes think it's me... But you know, I know when it's a dream. I think I know, I think, ah yes, but it's all wrong (Actual testimony...) That is, I think I disagree. (...of Ed Meese.) Let me take you down, 'cause we're going to... the Texas Motel Don't mind the smell It's just some old pornography Just keep on strokin' that sausage Just keep on strokin' that sausage (Jimmy-boy!) Just keep on strokin' that sausage Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 18:33:29 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: background on bin ladin and other special articles (njc) In a message dated 20/09/01 02:15:05 GMT Daylight Time, cactussong@home.com writes: << These articles are not only extremely informative, they are also supportive of the american response, unlike a tiny minority of 'asses' working for the guardian or bbc... >> Hmmm, I don't know what to make of that, except that some of us think the Guardian is a pretty good paper. If you don't like it, fair enough; I would add, though (at the risk of seeming to indulge in a tit-for-tat), that a LOT of people feel that the Times and Sunday Times started to decline steeply when Murdoch took them over, and that they are now little more than tabloids with longer words, and mouthpieces for his world view, not to mention his endless product placement for his satellite interests. Certainly, only a very naive person would consider them to be impartial; the Times of old was as close to impartial as newspapers get. Nowadays, the Independent is the closest to neutral as you'll find in England. Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 16:18:55 -0700 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Why meeeeeeeee? WHY NOT ME!!! Let's see, in this community of ours there are 800 or so. This is pretty sobering, but....we are not immune folks. Several of us will die in a car crash, several couples will divorce, several of are children will drown, several of us will die of cancer, several of our lovers will say: SEE YA! I can't stand you any more, several of us will develop dementia, several of us will live out our lives bound in a wheelchair, several of us will die of Aids, several of us will commit sucicide, several of us will die of heart attacks, several of will develop MS, several of us will die in are sleep, complications of diabetes will kill several of us......on and on etc.. etc.... (several of us ALMOST died in the WTC attack) What does the aforementioned have to do with any recent posts? Nothing and everything. Several people chided me after reading my last post thinking it was, for lack of a better word, too bombastic. I had said in the post "we have to get them before they get us again....BLOW THEM UP!!!" I don't want any innocent person to die in the upcoming war (I always wanted Santa Claus to be real too and for that matter the tooth fairy) but innocent people will die. That is the way of the world and will be the way.... until the very end of this world as we know it. Nothing more I would love would be UTOPIA here and now. Ain't happening folks! NOT NOW!! Thank God for JMDL I hope you will all understand Bree _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 16:01:03 -0700 From: "Jenaya Dawe" Subject: Speaking of Jonatha... NJC This just landed in my mailbox from the Jonatha Brooke list: Jonatha's song Secrets & Lies will be appearing in the premiere episode of the new Ellen Degeneres series, "The Ellen Show" airing on CBS at 8:00pm on Monday night, Sept. 24th. Tune in!! Looks like she's currently touring Europe. Jenaya NP: Old 97's "W.I.F.E." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 18:21:24 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: understood njc mack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 16:29:16 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Kakki/Kate Debate: Partisanship and Foreign Policy NJC and very long Brenda, I have also wished to see no partiansan debate here at this time. The Scheer piece was dangerously inaccurate regardless of who he was trying to slime and I don't think there is a "debate" involved as to whether or not he was right. Sometimes it really does seem around here that there is only room one one slant of opinion or FACTS despite all the people who claim to be so open. I'm not trying to flame you or anyone else, but really, I think this needs to be acknowledged if one wishes to claim fairness, liberalism and sensitivity. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 16:52:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Why meeeeeeeee? WHY NOT ME!!! Why do i have to read this sick email on the joni mitchell list?! - --- "Bree Mcdonough" > wrote: >Let's see, in this community of ours there are 800 or so. This is pretty >sobering, but....we are not immune folks. Several of us will die in a car >crash, several couples will divorce, several of are children will drown, >several of us will die of cancer, several of our lovers will say: SEE YA! I >can't stand you any more, several of us will develop dementia, several of us >will live out our lives bound in a wheelchair, several of us will die of >Aids, several of us will commit sucicide, several of us will die of heart >attacks, several of will develop MS, several of us will die in are sleep, >complications of diabetes will kill several of us......on and on etc.. >etc.... > >(several of us ALMOST died in the WTC attack) > >What does the aforementioned have to do with any recent posts? Nothing and >everything. Several people chided me after reading my last post thinking it >was, for lack of a better word, too bombastic. I had said in the post "we >have to get them before they get us again....BLOW THEM UP!!!" I don't want >any innocent person to die in the upcoming war (I always wanted Santa Claus >to be real too and for that matter the tooth fairy) but innocent people will >die. That is the way of the world and will be the way.... until the very >end of this world as we know it. > >Nothing more I would love would be UTOPIA here and now. Ain't happening >folks! NOT NOW!! > >Thank God for JMDL >I hope you will all understand > >Bree > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 01:06:27 +0100 From: Subject: Re: background on bin ladin and other special articles (njc) > Hmmm, I don't know what to make of that, except that some of us think the > Guardian is a pretty good paper. I suspect Shane has in mind this article from The Guardian earlier this week. Kakki, I think it's best if you don't click on this. http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,553672,00.html > the Times and Sunday Times started to decline steeply > when Murdoch took them over, and that they are now little more than tabloids Yeah but The Sunday Times has the best tv guide and record reviews mag. It's pity it comes wrapped in all that useless paper. Philip np Nightmares On Wax - Carboot Soul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 20:09:44 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Why meeeeeeeee? WHY NOT ME!!!(njc) > Why do i have to read this sick email on the joni mitchell list?! > Because there will be a quiz tomorrow morning at 8 am. Professor Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 17:13:56 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Partisanship and Foreign Policy NJC and very long Brenda, Since some of your other comments seemed aimed at me, let me add a few more: >Many people are saying that we as a nation > will never be the same. I hope so. Not that we should >sacrifice liberty and live in fear, but we should accept >that we are not immune and we can no longer pretend >that isolationism in any form works. Maybe because I'm older than a lot of the crowd here I have a different perspective. I cannot recall a time ever in my life or historically since WWII when America was isolationist. I'm not trying to argue with you but I just can't see it. We've been involved in numerous wars or actions in other countries almost constantly since that time. We are no doubt also the most diplomatic country on earth. We've been the biggest supporter of the UN since its inception. > I hope that we seek to understand more about the >world from which we've tried to separate ourselves. >Instead of being defensive about why other people in >the world may dislike or despise the U.S., let's seek to > understand their position. In my view of reality, all we have done is tried to understand other people in the world. I certainly won't claim we have done a good job of it, however. > I am not at all advocating validation of > the notion that we "deserved" it; I am suggesting that >there may be legitimate reasons why people (who are >not extremists, radicals or terrorists) hold disdain for our >country. And therein lies the supreme irony. Most hold disdain for us precisely because of our involvement in their country or other countries. It's a total Catch 22 - we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. Or maybe they have disdain because they don't like our capitalistic system. If that is the case, that is their problem and not something we have to beat ourselves up about. They are free to have their own system. If no one was capitalistic in this world, where would the money (and what it represents - hard work, innovation, production) to support people come from? Human nature will never evolve to the perfect collective creature who will work for free and share all they have with everyone. I am not advocating isolationism - that is stupid and a totally unrealistic conception. But can anyone really chastise anyone for feeling a little weary sometimes about the abuse that other countries so freely throw on us, especially at a time when we are down? Am I suppose to apologize for being upset about that? I am a human being, not some programmed robot with no feelings. Neither I, nor most of my fellow Americans, nor the people who died in WTC are personally responsible for the things other countries blame us for. >The response seemed to uniformly be that > the terrorists hate us. I hope that there are more >sophisticated discussions happening in schools. I think >alot of kids could understand it, if it is explained to >them. What would you suggest we tell them as to the reasons why the terrorists hate us? I agree that children should not be left with uninformed and simplistic reasons, but practically how do you download to them in a way they can understand, complicated socio-political events of the past 50 or so years? > I'm very concerned about the ongoing rhetoric in the >media and from government leaders which places the >focus on Bin Laden. We cannot be lulled into the >notion that this is simply about one man, his capture and >the shut down of his network. This is no longer just >about terrorism, and never really was. I agree with you here 100%. As for war and bombing and destroying other countries, let me tell you that when I heard the first inklings of this last week I became physically ill and experienced a feeling inside of me that I have never before in my life felt. I can't even describe it. I also have had nearly constant vertigo with nausea on a daily basis since this all happened to the point where I had to go to the hospital one night. My blood pressure which is usually 100/60 has been shooting up to 150/100 for no known reason. I absolutely do NOT want to destroy other countries because of this. I absolutely do understand the peril in that. That is what is so horrendous about all this - we have to stop it in a way that will not exacerbate it. It's a hellish challenge for us. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 20:25:50 EDT From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Support Muslim/Arab Americans NJC Hello, Like everyone else, I am disgusted by the violence against Muslim and Arab Americans. I have decided to do what I can about it. Which isn't much, but I have a few ideas: 1) buy from Muslims and Arabs whenever possible. I hear that stores and restaurants are being abandoned by people who normally wouldn't think twice about eating or shopping there. This is not right. 2) From Paula in San Fransisco (who is married to a Muslim) comes the following: If you have any friends or aquaintences or neighbors who are Arab or Muslim (or even South Asian, as they are getting it too), you may want to offer to take them to the grocery store with you or ask if they need any errands done (in case they are feeling too vulnerable to go outside right now). There is a window poster that is being circulated by Global Exchange right now that gives out the right message against hate attacks: http://www.globalexchange.org/september11/hateFreeZone.html I am disgusted that there are people who don't feel safe being outside. In my opinion, we all need to pull together and support each other. Mary ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 17:25:30 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Kakki/Kate Debate: Partisanship and Foreign Policy NJC and very long Kakki Perhaps I should clarify.... I wasn't implying that there remained a debate about what Scheer wrote. Anyone remotely familiar with Southern California politics knows exactly where the guy falls on the spectrum. (As an aside, in reading his article, I think he was implying that the money was going to support the Taleban because it was supporting the Afghan economy and that it was a veiled quid pro quo. Quite a stretch and definitely reckless. He really should have framed it more clearly as being his opinion, but I think that was supposed to be inferred by the fact that it was a column piece and not a news article. The guy's sole purpose in life is to inflame. I don't really merit his opinion pieces as anything more than that.) I also understand fully your view about openness in the room. As a Republican working in the music industry (I had been Republican since I turned voting age until after the last election, and no I am certainly not a Democrat or a liberal now), I often found myself as the sole voice on a particular side of an issue. Imagine what my life was like in that world (let alone the dinner table at Thanksgiving with three generations of Democrats) as an African-American female Republican -- all the conversion discussions and "how could you"'s . . . I was treated like a heathen at a revival. I was simply picking up on the topic and Kate's mention of being a liberal in that particular context. The mention of it and the absence of partisan discussion generally led me to ponder the efficacy of partisanship - not just now, but going forward. It's an issue I've been thinking about since the election result revealed us to be an equally divided nation. Thanks for writing, Brenda On 20 Sep 2001, at 16:29, Kakki wrote: > Brenda, > > I have also wished to see no partiansan debate here at this time. The > Scheer piece was dangerously inaccurate regardless of who he was trying to > slime and I don't think there is a "debate" involved as to whether or not he > was right. Sometimes it really does seem around here that there is only > room one one slant of opinion or FACTS despite all the people who claim to > be so open. I'm not trying to flame you or anyone else, but really, I think > this needs to be acknowledged if one wishes to claim fairness, liberalism > and sensitivity. Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #424 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?