From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #421 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, September 19 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 421 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: September 19 [les@jmdl.com] Re: thoughts njc ["Kakki" ] RE: PWWAM ["Ron Greer" ] RE: Joni Fest 2002, or...... "What I am Doing On My Summer Vacati on" [M.] a response to Kakki and Deb NJC ["Robert Holliston" ] the type of fight ahead ["shane mattison" ] Re: thoughts [AzeemAK@aol.com] RE: thoughts njc ["Kate Bennett" ] 'Refuge of the Roads' question ["denknee" ] Re: 'Refuge of the Roads' question [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Jonifest2002 ["Stephen Epstein" ] Re: Bush is walking into a trap - NJC [] Re: 'Refuge of the Roads' question [Reuben3rd@aol.com] Clear Channel...the elite?? (NJC) [Janene Otten ] A Lucky Boy NJC ["brian symes" ] RE: 'Refuge of the Roads' question ["Donna J. Binkley" ] Pooptunes? What's that? [Tyler Hewitt ] Re: Clear Channel...the elite?? (NJC) ["Brenda J. Walker" ] NJC - The *Israeli* (???) bombing of the WTC LONG ["Ron Greer" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 03:42:15 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: September 19 On September 19 this article was published: 1970: "Glimpses of Joni" - Melody Maker (Interview, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/700919mm.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 633 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 01:01:40 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: thoughts njc Kate, Please take no offense, but this is a very irresponsible piece by Scheer, and not current seeing how it was written back in May. Many of us have all been very ignorant about the U.S. dealings with Afghanistan (myself included) until recently. I never knew, for example, until someone posted on the list the other day that our government helped install the Taliban many years ago, thinking (ignorantly again) that they would be a better alternative to Soviet rule. Bin Laden was one of our main operatives in this and we paid him handsomely for it. He later turned against us and we later learned just what despots we had installed there. Officially we sanction them, but unofficially, for several years now, we have been back-dooring, under different guises, this kind of money to them. It is hard to say if it is for humanitarian purposes, but it is probably safe to say, as many in our government are now acknowledging, that it has been "incentive" for them to turn Bin Laden over to us. We have also tried limited bombing of them, as you may recall, back in 1998. That did not work, either. One of our main hopes now is that the authentic Muslims in the region will stand by us at this time. Kakki Kate wrote: > If you are speaking of unintended financial support then our government is just as guilty. Almost 4 months ago we sent $43 million to the Taliban rulers of Afghanistan for the war on drugs. > http://www.robertscheer.com/1_natcolumn/01_columns/052201.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:16:53 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: RE: PWWAM hi brei >>Brei wrote >>Inquiring minds want to know >>Please fill us all in about these 'extra' tracks >>REALLY REALLY SOON the packaging gives the tracklisting as:' big yellow taxi, just like this train, night ride home, crazy cries of love, harry's house, black crow, amelia, hejira, sex kills, the magdalene laundries, & moon at the window however, once you put the disc on, you get the following additional tracks: happiness is the best facelift, why do fools fall in love, trouble man, nothing can be done, song for sharon, woodstock, dreamland i think that this is more likely due to a printing error on the cover, rather than any extra tracks being on the version of the show which i got. ron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 09:31:21 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: Joni Fest 2002, or...... "What I am Doing On My Summer Vacati on" On 19 September 2001 06:46, AsharaJM@aol.com [SMTP:AsharaJM@aol.com] wrote: > had to be changed to August 23-26. (Arriving anytime on Friday, and leaving > on Monday) I truly hope that will not be a problem for anyone, and also hope > that some of you that weren't able to come "because" it was Labor Day > weekend, will be able to join us this year. (David Lahm? Marian? Terry? > others?) If the fest could be held on this weekend, I'm pretty sure I would be able to make it, Ashara. I'm so excited!!! > sing-a-longs as well. Days might be spent jamming, participating in > workshops, (Marian? Claud? Anne?) Would love to give some free guitar/alternate tunings workshops/private lessons. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 01:30:25 -0700 From: "Robert Holliston" Subject: a response to Kakki and Deb NJC Folks, I've been mostly confining my thoughts on this situation to private emails. But I want to respond to Kakki and Deb publicly. Kakki wrote, in part: >You know I really don't give a damn what these people who are always >chiding and sniping at us think at this point...There is no way to go >back and wring our hands and think of everything we might have done >the past 50 years to "deserve" this. There isn't a country in the world that could examine its behaviour during the last 50 years and NOT find reason for regret and even shame. It's amazing how the 20/20 vision of hindsight can make people so smug and self-satisfied when it comes time to evaluate the track record of another country! To abhor this act of terrorism does NOT mean that we don't also abhor other acts of terrorism, no matter where they occur. Kakki is 100% right: NOBODY deserves this. And America has NOT gone off and bombed the hell out of Afghanistan. The hate crimes committed against Islamic, Sikh, Hindu, and First Nation citizens of the US, Canada, Britain, and elsewhere have been properly denounced by the American government as the terrorist acts they are. When President Bush asked for patience, I believed that this meant he was unwilling to proceed until justice, rather than blind retaliation, can be served. That he understands that many Afghanis are victims of terrorism and opression. I believed it then, and I believe it now. Deb Messling wrote, in part: >I'm with Kakki on this one. Of course, the US is not perfect...The >Americans I've been talking with acknowledge our failings and are >even willing to reflect on how we might have contributed to the >situation we face today. But for crying out loud, read what bin Laden >has to say and see if "pure evil" does not apply...Parallels to Hitler are >apt. He hates us (Americans) for the mere fact that we >exist. We indeed must DEFEND and PROTECT ourselves. First of all, I don't believe in "pure evil." It's comforting to think that good will prevail against evil, as if the forces of evil are like cockroaches. The scarier reality is that we're dealing with a conflict between opposing visions of good. Don't get me wrong, I know what side I'm on. But I think it's important to recognize that these people are deeply committed to bin Laden (who, after all, imposes a death sentence on any follower who attempts to leave the fold). It's also important for all of us to recognize that we are ALL bin Laden's enemies: he's said it himself. Including Islamic citizens of all countries who don't adhere to his policies. Deb goes on to say: >I can tolerate some of this criticism of the US from my fellow >Americans. But I wish the rest of you could just shut up and let us >grieve for a while... Deb, I'm not here to criticize. Boundaries don't mean what they did even a few decades ago; as a Canadian who also experienced this tragedy from a safe (or once safe) distance, I'm grieving, too. People from many countries died in the WTC. What I am here to say is this: for the record, I'm in support of the US. I know how much we owe to the US, and how much we take this for granted. I also know that if the US goes down, so does Canada. And I promise you this: I'll continue to be vocal about it. Roberto ps. PaulIV talked about smiling. Let's all promise to greet airline workers with smiles and patience, no matter how inconvenienced we may be. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 03:44:00 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: The Hopi Message to the U.N. It took until the 1990's for the Hopi Nation to be given a chance to speak for the first time to the U.N. General Assembly. The message was of both spiritual warning, prophecy, and calling for the children of mother earth to change their ways. I think joni mitchell would approve: http://www.welcomehome.org/rainbow/prophecy/hopi.html shane www.angelfire.com/art/cactussong ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 05:34:32 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: the type of fight ahead The "Teley" seems to have the most extensive reports on the type of commando fight, a joint U.S. Delta Force and British SAS operation, which is most likely to take place in Afghanistan: http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/16/wusa11 6.xml shane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 07:35:56 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: thoughts In a message dated 18/09/01 19:51:41 GMT Daylight Time, blondeinthebleachers@hotmail.com writes: << I am not the most politically correct person in the world and the open door policy of our government has been too willing to let people into this country that intend to harm us. The very fact that family members of Osama bin Laden own a condo in Boston is enough to enfuriate me to no end. >> The thought that there are terrorists in our midst is a pretty disquieting one at any time, let alone now. Yet what can be done about it, short of shutting every border and totally pulling up the drawbridge? As for bin Laden's family, well it's a bloody huge family, and I would place a sizeable bet that not all of them agree with his demented and distorted interpretation of Islam. Timothy McVeigh's family haven't been interned or punished (they may have been harrassed after his arrest and conviction, I dare say), and that is only right. << Is it fair to say that from this day forward I will never be able to look at a young muslim man and not think that he was sent here to kill me because I am American? Maybe it is and maybe it isn't, but that prejudice is now instilled in me and will never go away. >> My personal answer is No, it isn't fair. It is by definition racial prejudice. How can you tell if someone is a Muslim? You might end up having to throw in Hindus as well, as from skin colouring and physiognomy it can be impossible to distinguish, say, a Pakistani from an Indian. This may look facetious, but I'm being totally serious. We can all allow ourselves to bow to prejudice (and no, I'm not exempting myself from that) - the challenge is to confront it in ourselves. You say the prejudice will never go away. It can go away, if you confront it, and don't allow it to take root. Kate has already posted about this, and I endorse 100% what she says. << There is a faceless enemy that walks among us and unfortunately I can no longer be objective about it, because I can't honestly say that I believe our government can protect us from it. >> That is the trouble. Your govt can't protect you from fanatics, any more than the UK govt can protect me. This is where it's crucial to look at the bigger picture. In the wake of the tragedy, there have been remarks made about isolationism and foreign policy (and I'm not just talking about this list) which suggest, worryingly, that it's irrelevant. While it may seem insensitive to start raking up the past now (and I'm not going to here), my fear is that, as the pain and shock gradually recede, so will any urge there might be to ask painful and searching questions about why it happened. I sincerely hope that my fear is baseless. << With this post I don't mean to infuriate or scare people this is just the way I feel. I feel as if Iwoke up on Tuesday from a 27 year coma and realized that my trivial problems, were just that. America, land of the free, should be a place people seek solace, but who those people are is going to have to come under scrutiny. >> I'll admit I was pretty angry when I first read your post, although I've now read it again and I think I understand where you're coming from. The fact is that with a name like Azeem Ali Khan, I could have all sorts of people making all sorts of assumptions about who and what I am, what I believe, where my sympathies lie, whether they need to be wary of me or give me a wide berth, etc etc. That, in microcosm, is how neighbours start being divided against each other. Now is the time to take a deep breath and contact the loving part of ourself, whether it's through God, or Allah, or the spirits, or the Universe, or whatever; and the rational part of ourself, which can go AWOL at times like this - and again, I'm not excluding myself from those enjoinders. I almost sent a post to the list yesterday which I would have regretted. The reason I didn't is not because I'm such a wise and loving person (if only), but because a friend suggested that I reconsider. Azeem in London John Parish and Polly Jean Harvey - Is That All There Is? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 04:18:38 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: thoughts njc Kakki, I take no offense at all. I am no expert on Afghanistan & have been learning much lately including as you mention, our support of the Taliban & Bin Laden vs. Russia. Before last week's tragedy, all I knew about Afghanistan was of the atrocious way women were treated there which was pretty common knowledge. But how do you view this piece as irresponsible? And why must it be current? I posted it as another example of how the US government has in the past funded the Taliban that I had just become aware of. This was the main point that I found disturbing: "the recent gift of $43 million to the Taliban rulers of Afghanistan, the most virulent anti-American violators of human rights in the world today. The gift, announced last Thursday by Secretary of State Colin Powell, in addition to other recent aid, makes the U.S. the main sponsor of the Taliban and rewards that "rogue regime" for declaring that opium growing is against the will of God." So are you saying this $43 million was provided to the Taliban to turn over Bin Laden to us, not to be used to stop them from growing opium? I am more than happy to hear other points of view on this. As I said I am just reading & learning as I go...just like most of the rest of us. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** Kakki wrote, Please take no offense, but this is a very irresponsible piece by Scheer, and not current seeing how it was written back in May...Officially we sanction them, but unofficially, for several years now, we have been back-dooring, under different guises, this kind of money to them. It is hard to say if it is for humanitarian purposes, but it is probably safe to say, as many in our government are now acknowledging, that it has been "incentive" for them to turn Bin Laden over to us. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 09:58:47 -0400 From: "denknee" Subject: 'Refuge of the Roads' question Ok, I'll come outta lurkdom - I can answer this one - I have the VHS: Larry Klein on bass, Mike Landau on guitar, Vinnie Colaiuta on drums, Russell Ferrante on keyboards, and this vid rocks! Totally different from Joni's usual approach to her tunes. Here's the track listing: WILD THINGS RUN FAST / RAISED ON ROBBERY / REFUGE OF THE ROADS / SWEET BIRD OF YOUTH (sic) / BANQUET / YOU'RE SO SQUARE (BABY i DON'T CARE) / SOLID LOVE / GOD MUST BE A BOOGIE MAN / FOR FREE / YOU DREAM FLAT TIRES / CHINESE CAFE / UNCHAINED MELODY / UNDERNEATH THE STREETLIGHT / WOODSTOCK. - -denknee ----------------------------------------------------------------- What do people know about the laser disc/video made after "Wild Things Run Fast", with Joni, called "Refuge of the Roads" ? Thanks in advance for any information. Richard in San Francisco richard2sf@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:21:16 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: 'Refuge of the Roads' question <> Sadly, it's out of print...I too have an original copy and can make copies for anyone interested. The video is almost ALL music, there are some interesting between song tidbits, like Joni tuning and/or talking off stage.. And this video represents about half of a typical show from this tour. Most of them ran about 2 hours long, included a cool "Heard It Through the Grapevine" encore and feature Joni on piano, guitar, and dulcimer. She adds additional melody & lyrics to "For Free" as well. Many complete shows are available for those who want a complete '83 show for their collection. Bob NP: Mama's Boys, "This Flight Tonight" (much better than I thought it was going to be!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:23:50 -0400 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Jonifest2002 Ashara wrote: "I have been in negotiations for the past several weeks with a place that I feel is an absolutely "perfect" fit for us. "Full Moon" is a rustic resort on 100 acres of natural beauty inthe Catskill Mountains of New York. It is a wonderful place with an emphasis on music and musical gatherings." It sounds and looks magnificent, Ashara- good sleuthing!! I can't think of a more perfect setting for our family, and you can count me in, with bells on! You are amazing! love Stephen in Vancouver PS can I have the room with you and Sal this year? Sorry Smurf, Jimmy and Paz! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 15:27:01 +0100 From: Subject: Re: Bush is walking into a trap - NJC Kakki wrote > Um, you posted and recommended one of two Robert Fisk articles from the > U.K. Independent here today that were nothing but negative, critical and > totally insensitive of our present situation. Hi Kakki, That was a follow on from Shane's Afghanistan fact sheet link describing what it's like in Afghanistan. Fisk's article described the difficulty of the terrain, high mountain ranges, vast distances, land mines everywhere, how the Soviets failed etc etc. Sorry if other parts of his article were insensitive. I should have read it more carefully. My hope is that the perpetrators are caught and whatever action is taken brings about a long term solution. Terrorism threatens us all.. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:33:22 EDT From: Reuben3rd@aol.com Subject: Re: 'Refuge of the Roads' question The show is extremely dated...I have a hard time getting past that. I don't like the arrangements much either, although some are radically different from the originals in an interesting way (Banquet, Raised On Robbery, etc.) The versions of Refuge of the Roads and For Free are heartbreaking, and my favorite versions of these songs. The songs are interspersed by home video (film, actually) that Joni shot on the road and other places...kind of interesting. I like the piece as a whole, I just wish she'd done it before or after her rock chick phase, because its not one of my favorite Joni periods. My 2, Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:41:02 -0400 From: Janene Otten Subject: Clear Channel...the elite?? (NJC) I thinking out loud and writing it down. Hope y'all don't mind. I heard that most Clear Channel station DJ's are ignoring the request. Thank goodness for that. My company is now owned by Clear Channel and no matter how you slice it, one corporation owning over a thousand stations is NOT a good thing for radio. Even if one company owned 100 stations it would still be a drag. As soon as the words music and industry were paired we could no longer call music our own. I just looked up the meaning of grass roots in Webster's dictionary. 1. Ordinary citizens esp. as contrasted with the leadership or elite 2. the origin or basis of something I thought it intersting that grass roots refers to ORDINARY CITIZENS and also THE ORIGIN or BASIS. Perhaps some leaders would be wise to put that in their pipes and smoke it. Peace, love & understanding, Janene np: Live - "V" Janene Otten janeneo@mji.com www.RockDaily.com www.RockNews.com "I stood unwound beneath the skies And clouds unbound by laws. The cryin' rain like a trumpet sang And asked for no applause" - B. Dylan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 07:43:29 -0700 From: "brian symes" Subject: A Lucky Boy NJC I roll out of my drive way With D Lahm's Woodstock on the radio and roll down Germantown road thru giant Doug firs in Forest Park As I cross St Johns bridge to a blissfull Sunrise and the View of mount St. Helen. Adams and Hood Joni starts her Version from S&L And park my car to the Applause. I did pick up The Look of Love/Diana Krall last night at Borders She has the London Symphony behind here in lush airy arrangements Her "I Get Along without you very well" is at the tree line of the Mount Everest version by Billie Holiday/Nelson Riddle. The modern Cheese cake Photo in the cd fold outyells out SEXSELLS.I would rather have photos of all the artist's that put out this CD. After awhile cleaveage is just the folding of skin in shadow and light. Brian in Portland.Oregon np Besame Mucho DK Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 09:47:03 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: 'Refuge of the Roads' question Hey JoniBob, I would like a copy of that video. What do i need to send you? I saw Joni doing this show here in Houston in '83. Your second paragraph here describes things i remembered too. Donna - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of SCJoniGuy@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 9:21 AM To: denknee@city-net.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: 'Refuge of the Roads' question <> Sadly, it's out of print...I too have an original copy and can make copies for anyone interested. The video is almost ALL music, there are some interesting between song tidbits, like Joni tuning and/or talking off stage.. And this video represents about half of a typical show from this tour. Most of them ran about 2 hours long, included a cool "Heard It Through the Grapevine" encore and feature Joni on piano, guitar, and dulcimer. She adds additional melody & lyrics to "For Free" as well. Many complete shows are available for those who want a complete '83 show for their collection. Bob NP: Mama's Boys, "This Flight Tonight" (much better than I thought it was going to be!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:52:13 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: NJC This came as a fwd which I often don't read but it reflects much of my own thinking on this subject! Peace.......Sharon > > Friends, > The following was written by an Afghani writer who lives in the Bay Area. > The wisest words I've encountered this week about what has happened and > where we might be headed. Take a minute to read. It's worth it. > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone > Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean > killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, > but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we > do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the > belly to do what must be done." > And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am > from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never > lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will > listen how it all looks from where I'm standing. > I speak as one who deeply hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. My hatred > comes from first hand experience. There is no doubt in my mind that these > people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something > must be done about those monsters. > But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the > government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics > who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a > plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden,think > Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in > the concentration camps." > It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. > They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone > would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of > international thugs holed up in their country. > Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The > answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A > few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled > orphans in Afghanistan-a country with no economy, no food. There are > millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in > mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all > destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan > people have not overthrown the Taliban. > We come now to the question of "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age". > Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the > Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn > their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. > Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? > Too late. Someone already did all that. > New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least > get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, > only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe > the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too > fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping > bombs would not really be a strike against the criminals who did this > horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the > Taliban-by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time. > So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true > fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with > ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be > done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as > needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing > innocent people. > Let's pull our head out of the sand. What's actually on the table is > Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting > their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than > that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go > through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan > would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see > where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West. > And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. > That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right > there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem > ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the > West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those > lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better > from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the West > would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years and > millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that? > Unfortunately, Bin Laden does. Anyone else? > In Peace, > Tamin Ansary > > Sharon...I tried to send this to Catherine cchappel@earthlink.net has she > changed her email address? We were delighted to heaar about Anders birth ..a > bright spot in a very depressing and frightening week. xoxo Ruth ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 09:30:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Tyler Hewitt Subject: Pooptunes? What's that? RE: Visiting Borders last night to pick up the new Diana Krall CD I saw the Pooptunes Joni CD with a really contorted portrait on the front. I took the copies and hid them in the classical section. I am deeply insulted by this CD it is almost Artistic character terrorism. Viva Siquom - ---------------------- Did I miss the boat on the Pooptunes cd? What is it? Why does it have that awful title? And finally, a comment on "I took the copies and hid them in the classical section." I took this to mean in part 'I hid them in the classical section because nobody ever shops there'. Too true, unfortunately. I wouldn't want to imagine life without Bach and Bartok, but Classical music is unfathomable for so many. A shame. __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 09:56:20 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Clear Channel...the elite?? (NJC) In the interest of broadening the perspective, here is an article from the NY Times on the whole Clear Channel list debacle: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/19/arts/music/19POPL.html?ex=1001895812&ei=1&en=2e0d1 6964ae0c1ea As much as I think Clear Channel's practices singularly symbolize the trouble with the music biz today, it is unfair to completely blame the corporate office for one person's zeal: "0100,0100,0100VerdanaA Clear Channel spokeswoman emphasized that the list was not a mandate or order to radio programmers. In a statement, the company said the list came not from the corporate offices but from 'a grass-roots effort that was apparently circulated among program directors.' "Others in the Clear Channel network, speaking on condition of anonymity, told a more complicated story. They said that a smaller list of questionable songs was originally generated by the corporate office, but an overzealous regional executive began contributing suggestions and circulating the list via e-mail, where it continued to grow. "Times New Roman ArialIt would certainly be interesting to see what the original smaller list had on it.0100,0100,0100 It's also funny that the spokeswoman classified it as "grass roots"... Brenda n.p.: Starsailor - "Good Souls" On 19 Sep 2001, at 10:41, Janene Otten wrote: 7F00,0000,0000> I thinking out loud and writing it down. Hope y'all don't mind. I heard that > most Clear Channel station DJ's are ignoring the request. Thank goodness for > that. My company is now owned by Clear Channel and no matter how you slice > it, one corporation owning over a thousand stations is NOT a good thing for > radio. Even if one company owned 100 stations it would still be a drag. As > soon as the words music and industry were paired we could no longer call > music our own. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 09:59:53 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Buckley and Starsailor NJC So I've been hearing this song "Good Souls" on college radio alot lately. It's performed by Starsailor (named after the Tim Buckley album) and it's quite good I think. Anyone heard the rest of the album? I hear it was released this week in the U.K. Brenda On 18 Sep 2001, at 12:45, ReckersL@ebrd.com wrote: > I am already > on a Tim Buckley discussion list (called Starsailor) and I wanted to stay > loyal to that commitment. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:13:32 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Clear Channel...the elite?? (NJC) 0100,0100,0100TahomaThis time without the misplaced code.... In the interest of broadening the perspective, here is an article from the NY Times on the whole Clear Channel list debacle: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/19/arts/music/19POPL.html?ex=1001895812&ei=1&en=2e0d16964ae0c1ea As much as I think Clear Channel's practices singularly symbolize the trouble with the music biz today, it is unfair to completely blame the corporate office for one person's zeal: "A Clear Channel spokeswoman emphasized that the list was not a mandate or order to radio programmers. In a statement, the company said the list came not from the corporate offices but from 'a grass-roots effort that was apparently circulated among program directors.' "Others in the Clear Channel network, speaking on condition of anonymity, told a more complicated story. They said that a smaller list of questionable songs was originally generated by the corporate office, but an overzealous regional executive began contributing suggestions and circulating the list via e-mail, where it continued to grow. It would certainly be interesting to see what the original smaller list had on it It's also funny that the spokeswoman classified it as "grass roots"... Brenda n.p.: k.d. lang - "Diet of Strange Places" ArialOn 19 Sep 2001, at 10:41, Janene Otten wrote: 7F00,0000,0000> I thinking out loud and writing it down. Hope y'all don't mind. I heard that > most Clear Channel station DJ's are ignoring the request. Thank goodness for > that. My company is now owned by Clear Channel and no matter how you slice > it, one corporation owning over a thousand stations is NOT a good thing for > radio. Even if one company owned 100 stations it would still be a drag. As > soon as the words music and industry were paired we could no longer call > music our own. > I just looked up the meaning of grass roots in Webster's dictionary. 1. > Ordinary citizens esp. as contrasted with the leadership or elite 2. the > origin or basis of something > I thought it intersting that grass roots refers to ORDINARY CITIZENS and > also THE ORIGIN or BASIS. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:27:54 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Screwy emails NJC My apologies for the wacky code in my last couple of emails. I'm trying out a new mail client (to avoid the Outlook worm fiascos). Back to your regularly scheduled program.... Brenda ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 19:42:05 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: NJC - The *Israeli* (???) bombing of the WTC LONG hi folks recently ive taken over as administrator of our company e-mail system. one of the "perks" is that all undelivered mail is routed to me. this undelivered e-mail has included a number of islamic/muslim newsletters (south africa has a large and very active muslim community)(hence the large number of bombs etc a while ago - including a planet hollywood, and a macdonalds outlet!!) generally i just set the system to delete without reading - without wanting to reflect on islam/muslims as a whole (& i am sure that most of the newsletters are from the idiots that were so fairly distributed!!), most of the stuff that comes to me, is, for want of a better word, crap. (to explain the "idiots that were fairly distributed" someone on another list made the following truly wonderful statement: ""and I surely could not say that I hate a group, or even a country - I actually think that god or who ever is in charge - was fair as he spread idiots over the world - there appears to be a constant number all over the planet - what ever country they come from..."") but in view of the recent events i have been reading some of these newsletters, & came across the following two articles which i reproduce without any comment - form your own opinion!! so - read on at your own peril: posting 1: **************************************************************************************************************************************** Message: 3 Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 22:58:05 From: "shuaib" Subject: Fwd: [ Palestinian_Diary ] Masterminds Behind The American Tragedy What happened in lower Manhattan, NY city on Sept. 11. 2001 was devastating and totally unacceptable by anyone who profoundly understands the value and the importance of a human life. Thousands of innocent people (including several Muslims) lost their lives that day. My heart and prayers go out to everyone who lost their loved ones because of this tragedy. Right after the "attack on America" happened, the media deliberately started projecting that this heinous crime was perpetrated and committed by the Muslims namely (Usama Ben Laden). Also, that Muslims in America and all around the world are the culprits and are responsible for this in-humane act of terror. Q. Were these hijackers Muslims? If yes, what kind of Muslims? A. Not very good and true Muslims. There is a good reason why I believe that (if and only if they were Muslims) they were not good and true Muslims. So, who is behind all of this? Let me give you the following reasons and hints to who is behind this tragedy: Q. Who controls the media in America? And isn't this true that most of the ordinary and average people like us believe whatever we see, hear, and read thru media? Q. Why didn't the hijackers (If Muslims as projected) care about over 3000 good Muslims who worked in the twin towers on a daily basis? If their motive was to bring these buildings down, they could have done that over the weekend or at night time when very few people are in the buildings. Q. Why do this in the morning hours? A. Everyone is watching, in real time on TVs all around America. Q. Who was that gentleman on the street at about 9:08 AM With a cam-coder in his hands making the video, which captured and recorded the incident of the first plane hitting the tower? How come he was there at the right place, at the right time? Media involvement, planned out act of terror, and again who controls the media? Chain of the events happened in US gradually, momentarily, and step by step. Moments after the attack and collapse of the WTC, media showed Palestinian kids and one female in hijab (symbols of Muslim women) clapping, singing, and celebrating. Different TV channels reported to the American viewers that Palestinians are happy and loving American loss while the entire America is mourning this tragedy. Q. How long does it takes to gather hungry and abandoned bunch of kids to clap, sing, and jump up and down in front of the camera in Palestine? Q. Did anyone notice the time zone? It was morning here, and with 7 hours difference in time zone, it was same daylight time in Palestine! (very interesting). FBI and FEMA reported that one of the suspects Mr. Mohamed Atta and others were on the list for most wanted in car and bus bombings in Israel. At one time the Israeli army captured this person and few years later he was released by them. Q. What happened when he was in Israeli jail? Brain washed? Funded and harbored? Forced? Set up? Paid off in mighty $? Q. How in the world Mr. M. Atta and his associates come inside the US borders, lived on the US soil, received training to fly planes openly when he was on the FBI wanted list, without the protection, umbrella, and a free ticket by someone very powerful in US to roam around without any problem? FBI received a tip from a passenger who boarded a different plan and reached his destination safely that he had a confrontation with two middle eastern gentlemen at the Logan airport in Boston, MA. He gave them the exact location of their stranded car parked in the lot, where FBI found the (Manuel on how to fly a plane) in Arabic language. Also, they found the information leading to the rental car and credit card information with which the 2 plane tickets were purchased from Boston to LA Q. People capable of plotting and executing such a sophisticated plan would leave the Arabic language manual and other information in the rental car to be found later by the FBI. How dumb is that by professional terrorists? FBI reported that they traced the attackers to Florida where the FBI was told by the bar owner /manager that the two suspects came into the bar couple days ago and drank liquor heavily (Good true Muslims and drinking? Well yes I know some (M) do drink alcohol but true (Jihadi) Muslims?...Nahhhhhhhhhh). Q. Drinking and fighting with the bar manager over the bill, possibility to get the police involved, be in position to get caught, blow up and jeopardize their well thought out and long awaited plan? I don't think so. One report said, struggle in the plane, which crashed in PA. Phone calls were made from the plane. One man called his mother in California for (1 full minute) in which he told her that the plane has been hijacked, he loves his mother and family very much, also that hijackers have sharp knives. No description given at all abou the ethnic background, race, color etc. Flight attendant called her family and told them that hijackers have knives, she is been stabbed, and even told them the seat # of the hijackers but no description given at all. Q. Was the hijackers hiding their face? Why these both callers could not see or judge and identify the hijackers identity? Plane tickets were purchased by credit card of Mr.. M. Atta, leading FBI and swat teams to the Westin hotel where 3 of the helpers were waiting after almost over 29 hours of the initial attack on WTC. Q. How idiotic is this for people who are assigned and trained to pull off an attack and destroy (WTC) the landmark of success and freedom of America? Some said that while the associates of hi-hijackers were waiting for the FBI to show up and arrest them, they ordered Pizza with Black Olives and took turns taking short naps. In 1993, unsuccessful WTC bombing happened, 6 people died, over 1000 injured. Several Arabs were arrested including Mr. Mohamed Ramzi Yusouf in Pakistan. Still in jail in Colorado awaiting his punishment. HBO Movie in 1995 (Road to Paradise) in which the story of the WTC was told and at the end of the Movie Mr. Ramzi Yusouf was quoted looking at the twin towers, "next time we will bring them both down". Q. Who the hell made that Movie and predicted in the Movie that this will happen some day in the future and how did they reached this conclusion? Again, who controls and operates the media and the movie business? In conclusion: There is a good reason to believe that Prime Minister of Israel Mr. Ariel Sharon and Israeli intelligence is behind this tragedy. So far they have been very successful in killing not only 1, not 2, but three birds with only one bullet. 1.. Create hostile conditions for Muslims in the US and all over the world. 2.. Have US bomb and stop any kind of aid to the 3rd world Muslim countries like Palestine, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. 3.. The biggest threat to Israel in Middle Eastern region is Usama Ben Laden, and making the US public, the US government, and the entire world believe that Usama is the master mind behind the American tragedy, will have Usama killed for Israel by the US military. Basically, create chaos between Muslims & Christians, sit back and watch over and benefit from the chain of events and destruction among Muslims & Christians. Prime example: Threats of retaliations and attacks have already begun on Mosques, in schools, and at workplace. Good and true Muslims are being called terrorists, followers of Usama & Sadaam, harassed for something they have no control or influence over. As American-Muslim, I hope that whatever happens in the coming days, months, and years brings peace and calm to our beautiful world. Be safe, show that you care, and watch your back at this sad time in America. Mr. Sharon and Israel, the masterminds behind the American tragedy. ********************************************************************* second post - at least they mark this one (reliable?) 6. 4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day of the Attack (reliable?) TEXT: "4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day of the Attack With the announcement of the attacks at the World Trade Center in New York, the international media, particularly the Israeli one, hurried to take advantage of the incident and started mourning 4000 Israelis who work at the two towers. Then suddenly, no one ever mentioned anything about those Israelis and later it became clear that they remarkably did not show up in their jobs the day the incident took place. No one talked about any Israeli being killed or wounded in the attacks. Arab diplomatic sources revealed to the Jordanian al-Watan newspaper that those Israelis remained absent that day based on hints from the Israeli General Security Apparatus, the Shabak, the fact which evoked unannounced suspicions on American officials who wanted to know how the Israeli government learned about the incident before it occurred, and the reasons why it refrained from informing the U.S authorities of the information it had. Suspicions had increased further after Israeli newspaper Yadiot Ahranot revealed that the Shabak prevented Israeli premier Ariel Sharon from traveling to New York and particularly to the city's eastern coast to participate in a festival organized by the Zionist organizations in support of the "Israel". Aharon Bernie, the commentator at the newspaper, brought up the issue and came up with a negative conclusion, saying "no answer". He then asked about the clue behind the Shabak's position in preventing Sharon's participation, and again without giving an answer. Bernie added that Sharon, who was delighted for having his speech on top of the festival agenda, asked the head of the organization to mediate and convince the Shabak to change its position, but his attempts were in vein. The next day after Sharon's secretary officially announced that Sharon would not participate the incident took place. For its part, the Israeli Ha'aretz newspaper revealed that the FBI arrested five Israelis four hours after the attack on the Twin Towers while filming the smoking skyline from the roof of their company's building. The FBI had arrested the five for "puzzling behavior". They are said to have been caught videotaping the disaster in what was interpreted as cries of joy and mockery. Muslims March in New York to Say "Islam Is Not Terrorism" Amid More Violence Against Them 9/16/2001 - 9/18/2001 Contact Us : info@manartv.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 12:44:06 -0500 From: "William Waddell" Subject: Old Videos on the Internet I'm sure this is history to a lot of JMDLers but I'm always running ... I thought I'd post for anyone who hasn't seen the videos for Two Grey Rooms, Shiny Toys, Fiction, Come in from the Cold, Good Friends, Night Ride Home, Nothing Can Be Done and My Secret Place. They can be found at a site called . I also came across an MP3 of Just Like This Train which sounded a lot like the Just Ice version but wasn't, was it Bob!? It was interesting to see how she looked at the time of those videos. I particularly liked the CMIARS look with the hat and wrap-around. Favourite Joni-look is around the Hissing time; least favourite around WTRF. Just a thought. Willy the Shake _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 18:06:04 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: The attack (NJC) Dear Friends, Some time soon, I'll regain the presence of mind to write some things about having witnessed the attack on the World Trade Center from a window at 22nd and 5th, and the resulting worldwide malaise which has understandably affected all peoples. Again, I am amazed and enriched by the outpouring of support offered one another and eloquence of the thoughts and discussions I have read on the list since Sept. 11. How can we possibly doubt our ability to confront and conquer such naked evil as we have seen when just this small group can voice such salient and sage observations. We are not alone, we are not powerless, we have not forgotten who we are, what we stand for and what we will NOT stand for. I have four pieces of music which have not left my turntables since the disaster. I've found both solace and provocation within them: "Slouching Toward Bethlehem" "The Sire of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song)" "Shipbuilding" by Elvis Costello "Rock Me On The Water" by Jackson Browne Has anyone else been compelled to return to certain songs since the events of Sept. 11? Demand humanity. CC "Music fathoms the sky." -- Baudelaire _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #421 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?