From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #416 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, September 18 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 416 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The Old Grey Whistle Test - njc (as far as I know, so far!) ["Bill Pe] Re: The Top 20 Bad Romance Novel Metaphors or Similes (njc) [AzeemAK@aol.] joni to me ["Dolphie Bush" ] those poor people, may god bless their souls. ["Dolphie Bush" ] to those who advocate hiring snakes for espionage (njc) ["shane mattison] who made the salty soup? ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: backlash towards muslims njc ["Mark or Travis" ] A Salty dog???(njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] a salty dog njc ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: backlash towards muslims njc [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Subject: Another perspective njc [Les Irvin ] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #413 [gay reimers ] translation question njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] CNN njc ["Kate Bennett" ] CPR njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Subject: Indeed, something to think about ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: CNN njc [Mags ] RE: Subject: Indeed, something to think about ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: 1/11/99 Time Asia exclusive interview summoned by bin Laden NJC [Cath] Re: Another perspective NJC [Catherine McKay ] RE: backlash towards muslims [Catherine McKay ] "God Bless Him For A Great Song"NJC(Long) [Scott and Jody ] Re: CNN njc [TerryM2222@aol.com] Re: Subject: Indeed, something to think about ["Kakki" ] Re: NJC Thanks Jenaya ["Kakki" ] Something to smile about [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: CNN njc ["Stephen Epstein" ] Re: Subject: Another perspective njc [Rick and Susan ] Wallowing NJC [KJHSF@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 00:33:54 +0100 From: "Bill Pearson" Subject: Re: The Old Grey Whistle Test - njc (as far as I know, so far!) > Now it's Curtis Mayfield - why didn't I get the video recording? > > Azeem in London Azeem, It's a good job I did then :) Let me know if you want something Bill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:54:43 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: The Top 20 Bad Romance Novel Metaphors or Similes (njc) In a message dated 17/09/01 22:39:20 GMT Daylight Time, jgyn@muse.sfusd.edu writes: << 16. As she kissed her way down his manly chest, he felt his Amalgamated Crane Company stock increasing in value. >> These raised more than a chuckle, Jan, especially the one above. Are they all taken from Jeffrey Archer novels? ;-) Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:01:23 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: joni to me Have tried to stay out of the political stuff the past few days and slipped today. Sorry Brenda. That kind of stuff upsets me even if I am sure that I am right. My mother always taught us to not express our feelings and if we did, we should not have. Kind of a flop in that area. It is cool this evening in oblivion, in the center of Texas where nothing happens. Old friends are long gone into the distance of the past and I am alone today. Joni comforts me. I have read the rare postings concerning her and realized that I have spent the majority of my time listening to Court and Spark, Blue, and For the Roses. So decided to break out some of the other ones. Have been listening to Hejira these past couple of weeks and just cannot seem to find why it is so great to some people. Guess it is me but not gonna give up and maybe I will get it. Ladies of the Canyon plays now and damn, can that Joni sing. "playing real good for free" Just finished with Clouds. "but something's lost and something's gained by living every day, I really don't know life at all". She always seems to put it into perspective. My imperfections, my failings, my strong points, etc. She makes me feel as if, irregardless of what I am or am not, she loves me anyway and it is okay to be me. thanks Joni. mack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:14:28 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: those poor people, may god bless their souls. the evening is cool and the sun leaves the sky. alone and listening to the songbird tell her tale. the words matter not but the tone takes me to the depths of sadness for those poor souls. I ache for them tonight. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 20:21:30 -0400 From: Bruyere Subject: Re: Subject: Another perspective njc Does anyone know where one can get reliable information on these people (bin laden, the Taliban) which describes what they are all about. I am such a stickler about education. Yes .... I do not know much about these people .... call me ignorant, I don't care .... but I want to and need to know. Understanding is a beginning. Thanks, Heather At 11:17 AM 9/17/01 -0700, Kate Bennett wrote: >Ric, i have been sent that letter several times & have sent it out...like >you i never do this but in this case i feel it had great value in the midst >of many people calling out for revenge...i know that i have lots of catching >up to do as to the historical details of afghanistan & imagine their are >others out there like me... > >btw, i sent this letter to another group with apologies that i could not >verify the source...i got several positive replies, one from a woman who >followed it up by doing some research & said she could verify every detail >except for the widows in graves, another response i got was from a man who >taught high school world history & was somewhat of an expert on the middle >east...he said that he felt this letter was accurate... > >******************************************** >Kate Bennett >www.katebennett.com >sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com >Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: >http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html >******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:35:58 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: to those who advocate hiring snakes for espionage (njc) my uncle served as a career officer in the Candian Armed Forces, starting as a tank commander in korea but proceeding, on account of his many decorations to military intelligence and then economic intelligence. i have thought, where is the logic in this matter of hiring snakes for espionage? i've heard commentators, guests, and journalists all say the intelligence services have to hire snakes, criminals etc. to find the 'rat' terrorists in their holes... i would like them to prove that a man of integrity and honesty actually cannot do a better role as a spy...he's more trustworthy isn't he? and isn't trust crucial to success? its like their saying you can hire the wicked and not expect to get burned...didn't they hire bin laden at first...did that do any good?...haven't they hired good men who were the most effective in infiltrating organized crime...good fbi officers who were risking their very lives as well as their marriages and families? and they unveiled the whole inside of the mafia...whom can you trust to believe, an honest spy or a liar? where is the logic that hiring a wicked man will advance your cause or help you better reach your objective? were the death squads in el salvador advancing u.s. goals more effectively than scotland yard?...come off it, and get it straight before we repeat the same mistakes we did with bin laden - all over again! shane mattison ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:41:04 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: who made the salty soup? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 17:53:33 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: backlash towards muslims njc What a combo we are! After 10 yrs of marriage > we > > decide to settle down and now we have John Calvin Samer who is almost 15 > > months. > > Dear Kammy, > > My sister is married to an Iranian man and I worry for her and their family > and friends. I pray that your family and friends will be safe. > > Love, > > Marian I want to add my wish for your safety as well and thank you for speaking up, Kammy. I appreciated hearing from you. I hope & pray that people will keep their heads and not start punishing innocent people who are in no way responsible for the horrible events that have descended on this nation. Will keep you in my thoughts & prayers, Kammy. Mark E ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 21:03:18 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: A Salty dog???(njc) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 20:03:14 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: a salty dog njc thanks for the chuckle. mack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 21:09:57 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: backlash towards muslims njc In a message dated 18/09/01 01:57:38 GMT Daylight Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: << I hope & pray that people will keep their heads and not start punishing innocent people who are in no way responsible for the horrible events that have descended on this nation. >> And I fear that this hope is forlorn. I have relations on my father's side (ie Muslims) living in the USA, and one of them has told me of local Muslim centres receiving death threats. Obviously I haven't heard any US talk shows, but I have been told that some of the views expressed have been of the "all Muslims are evil" and "guilt by association" variety. I know that this is not how most people think, but numerically the people who hold such narrow views add up to a big crowd... I'm glad that this isn't happening here (yet) - even my mother, who is English but has kept her married name, could start getting hassle. O tempora! O mores! Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:10:29 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Subject: Another perspective njc At 9/17/2001 06:21 PM, Bruyere wrote: >Does anyone know where one can get reliable information on these people >(bin laden, the Taliban) which describes what they are all about. The PBS website has some quite good info: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/ Les ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:30:44 -0700 (PDT) From: gay reimers Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #413 Hello, I'm not sure if this is the proper way to address this and if not sorry. I've got a class "Communication and Aging" that I am writing a paper for. Title of the paper..( tentative ) "Both Sides Now: The Aging Process as Reflected in the Lyrics of Joni Mitchell." Am of course researching the usual avenues, print interviews, video, books as well as examining lyrics for references to youth / aging etc. Would appreciate any folks out there that can reference this subject matter. I don't want to miss or overlook any gems. Thanks much. Gay JMDL Digest wrote: > > JMDL Digest Monday, September 17 2001 > Volume 2001 : Number 413 > > > > The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by > Wally Breese, can be > found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains > the latest news, > a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics > and much much more. > > The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com > and contains > interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, > and much more. > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Jeff Buckley's music on VH1(NJC) > [RobSher50@aol.com] > Re: NJC 1 answer to bigotry ["Mark or > Travis" ] > Re: Jeff Buckley's music on VH1(NJC) ["Victor > Johnson" Subject: Clarification: Joni's next project > ["kerry" Another perspective > [Ricw1217@aol.com] > For the fire fighters [Vince > Lavieri ] > NJC!!!! (another perspective...) > [Ricw1217@aol.com] > Re: Jeff Buckley's music on VH1(NJC) [Jason > Maloney Re: Jeff Buckley's music on VH1(NJC) ["Blair > Fraipont" New York Minute (njc) ["shane > mattison" ] > Re: Jeff Buckley's music on VH1(NJC) > [RobSher50@aol.com] > Re: Jeff Buckley's music on VH1(NJC) > [RobSher50@aol.com] > Re: NJC 1 answer to bigotry [Catherine McKay > ] > Boy! Am I glad I'm here (NJC) > [RobSher50@aol.com] > Re: NJC 1 answer to bigotry [Catherine McKay > ] > Re: Boy! Am I glad I'm here (NJC) [Catherine > McKay Re: crying njc [Catherine McKay > ] > Re: crying njc [Vince > Lavieri ] > Re: NJC answer to bigotry and Kakki ["Kakki" > ] > Re: NJC 1 answer to bigotry ["Kakki" > ] > Vince njc ["Kate > Bennett" ] > Observations (njc) ["Kakki" > ] > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 21:22:23 EDT > From: RobSher50@aol.com > Subject: Jeff Buckley's music on VH1(NJC) > > Last night and today, I heard a very beautiful song > sung by someone whose > name I have heard referenced on the JMDL before. His > name is Jeff Buckley, > and the name of the song is "Hallelujah." It was > absolutely touching and > beautiful. There was no video that showed his face. > What was shown was a > series of scenes showing rescue workers, fireman and > citizens showing love > for each other. It was perfect. From hearing this > song, I have concluded that > I really like Jeff Buckley. Any fans of his out > there? > > Sherelle > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 18:26:43 -0700 > From: "Mark or Travis" > Subject: Re: NJC 1 answer to bigotry > > > Bin Laden in addition to his belief in terrorism, > also follows > generally > > conservative beliefs as regards freedoms, womens > rights, gay people > etc. These > > are views commonly held by conservatives, are the > views we here > conservatives > > I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, > Colin, and say that I > think you are inaccurate with your terminology. I > don't think that > being a political conservative means that someone is > bigoted or > narrow-minded or against gay or women's or anybody's > rights, at least > not in this country. There are extremist elements > who spew hate & > divisiveness in the name of many religious and > political causes. To > paint all conservatives (or liberals or Christians > or Muslims or Jews > or whatever) with the same brush is inaccurate and > wrong. This is a > point that I have seen Kakki fight to put across > time & time again. I > don't always agree with her political stances and I > don't even know if > she identifies as a conservative. But she is no > bigot. She is not > narrow-minded. She has a sharp intelligence, a > compassionate heart > and is always striving to see all sides of a > situation before she > makes up her mind. She is not guided by any one > party's line. She > thinks for herself. The same could be said for many > 'conservatives'. > And yes, Colin, I understand that you did not say > anything negative > about Kakki nor did you intend to imply anything bad > about her. I'm > just stating for the record what I know about her. > > Thank you, Vince, for your immediate response to try > & clear this up. > I know in my heart that you did not mean to offend > anyone or equate > political conservatives in the US with Bin Laden in > any way. > > Hate & narrow-mindedness hide behind many masks. > Some of the groups > that attract & harbor the hateful & the ignorant are > indeed > representative of those people. But just because > some of the > hatemongers identify as conservative or Christian or > whatever, it does > not mean that all conservatives or Christians are > hatemongers. > > Mark E > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 21:30:54 -0400 > From: "Victor Johnson" > Subject: Re: Jeff Buckley's music on VH1(NJC) > > > It was perfect. From hearing this song, I have > concluded that > > I really like Jeff Buckley. Any fans of his out > there? > > > > Sherelle > > I love Jeff Buckley! He has such a unique voice and > so completely expresses > his passion. My favorite recording of his is the 5 > song EP "Live at Sin-E", > recorded in New York no less. > > Victor > > > > > > > Victor Johnson > http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson > > "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, > Come when you lay down your head. > While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, > That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." > > Scarlet-V. Johnson > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 20:41:24 -0500 > From: "kerry" > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 22:30:21 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: translation question njc i asked colin already but it won't hurt if i ask all of you. i am translating a novel the main character of which spends all the time either knitting or talking about knitting. since my knowledge of stitches and knitting is zero, i was wondering if any of you could help me. i need to know the names of basic stitches and knitting actions. if you know how to hand knit, please write me privately. if you know any sites where i can find information, please let me know too. thanks in advance and sorry for the bandwidth!!!!! wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:19:55 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: CNN njc Okay, I hesitated posting this because I do not want to fan these flames. And I am horrified & saddened to hear the reports of violence to middle eastern people. That said I have to respond with my reaction to the following post in which someone wrote: "CNN, the channel that has been trying to discredit the Palestinians by using images of Arab children celebrating the destruction of the twin towers?" 1) I have had CNN on day & night since tuesday & have never seen this footage...i have heard others talking about it but haven't seen it on my version of CNN... 2) got a message from a friend who was an eye witness to a similar celebration (not on TV) & it occurred here in this country ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:19:54 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: CPR njc I agree Laurent, CPR is incredible. Kate, gettin old, still liberal, with plenty o brains...:~) ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:19:56 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Indeed, something to think about Joseph, I hope you will stick around & talk to us if it helps you...I know how you feel. I don't want to do anything but grieve either. Not yet. I don't really expect to ever feel completely healed from this. As we were out & about yesterday, looking at all the flags half mast, I told my husband that I didn't think we should raise them up for a long long long long time. And I am not a flag person. I would rather have an "earth" flag to display.... Also I don't want to fly either. We have plane plane reservations in about a month but plan to drive instead. Also this week I had planned to fly to visit family half way across the US which is too far to drive right now. Forget those plans. I use to love to fly but lately have not enjoyed it AT ALL. Now I am not sure I ever want to do it again. Joseph wrote "Forgive me, I don't post often, nor do I have the time to read posts often, but I do so when I can...I don't have the least bit of desire to be in my office conducting business as usual. I don't want to fly; I don't want to take the subway; I don't want to do much else other than grieve." ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 21:46:54 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: Indeed, something to think about In a message dated 9/17/01 9:40:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: > ...I know > how you feel. I don't want to do anything but grieve either. Not yet. I > don't really expect to ever feel completely healed from this. > > As we were out & about yesterday, looking at all the flags half mast, I told > my husband that I didn't think we should raise them up for a long long long > long time. And I am not a flag person. I would rather have an "earth" flag > to display.... > > Also I don't want to fly either. We have plane reservations in about a > month but plan to drive instead. Also this week I had planned to fly to > visit family half way across the US which is too far to drive right now. > Forget those plans. I use to love to fly but lately have not enjoyed it AT > ALL. Now I am not sure I ever want to do it again. > > Kate and everyone, Grieving is appropriate for about as long as they are still digging out the bodies, but soon you and I, we all, must snap out of it, raise the flags to full-staff and get on with our lives. If we let the terrorists affect us permanently; if we let them change the way we live; if we let them thrust us into a deep wallow of misery and grief, then we let them win. I, for one, do not intend to let them win. I hope that the rest of you will not continue to wallow for much longer. The sooner we return to our way of life; the sooner we show that we cannot be driven down so easily, the better. Soon it will be time to find something to smile about. Start getting ready. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 22:10:37 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Subject: Indeed, something to think about(njc) > If we let the terrorists affect us permanently; if we let them change the > way we live; if we let them thrust us into a deep wallow of misery and grief, > then we let them win. > I, for one, do not intend to let them win. I hope that the rest of you will > not continue to wallow for much longer. The sooner we return to our way of > life; the sooner we show that we cannot be driven down so easily, the better. > Soon it will be time to find something to smile about. Start getting ready. > I thought it was interesting tonight...I was flipping around the television and I saw the Braves/Phillies game was on and it just seemed completely natural to me, that baseball was on. At that moment, all the events of the previous week seemed faraway, almost as if it was a dream. I certainly know that it wasn't a dream and that we are probably in for a long haul, and that anything could happen at any time, and especially that for those who were more directly affected, it will take much much longer to overcome the sorrow. But I see how easy it is to slip back into the normal way of life as I experienced briefly tonight. I have also been dealing with several things more directly affecting me that I must deal with so perhaps that has demanded much of my attention and still does. We did spend several hours though, Holley and I, this weekend, writing a song that could serve as a beacon of hope and catharsis for the people of New York(and others as well) which we hope to sing at some local churches and vigils and even perhaps, try to get to some media. I will probably be posting more about it soon as we develop more of a concrete idea of what we are doing with it. It is hard to overcome the deep sorrow that has seemed to prevade everything for almost a whole week. I know. But I think it really helped me to write a song/poem to the people of New York, the firefighters, the families, etc...and really sent strong vibes of love towards them. Perhaps try to do something similiar...use your creative energy to offer some kind of vision, offering of love, and prayer up to the universe. Maybe it would help... love, Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:20:55 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: backlash towards muslims njc Azeem wrote: > And I fear that this hope is forlorn. I have relations on my father's side > (ie Muslims) living in the USA, and one of them has told me of local Muslim > centres receiving death threats. Obviously I haven't heard any US talk > shows, but I have been told that some of the views expressed have been of the > "all Muslims are evil" and "guilt by association" variety. I know that this > is not how most people think, but numerically the people who hold such narrow > views add up to a big crowd... There has been exhortation everywhere here since last Tuesday not to go out and act this way. Americans in general have a very deep guilt and shame about how the American Japanese were treated here during WWII and I thought that lesson was well ingrained into us. I have a feeling that the ignorant people who go out and do these things are the same ones who would be looking for any excuse or chance for some thuggery anyway. I really do not think this will be a widespread thing here, Azeem, because we have so many personal and work ties to each other here, and most Americans are proud and supportive of each other, regardless of ethnic or religious background. However, even one incident is one too many. I have heard some of the people who have been victimized by this interviewed on TV and the radio. I have been amazed at the tolerance and, in some cases, even good humor, displayed by them. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 22:27:41 -0400 From: Mags Subject: Re: CNN njc in my humble opinion, we need to be very careful about believing/ buying into / reacting to the aforementioned images which depict celebrations in the street which were supposedly in response to the tragedies of last Tuesday. ... by this I mean that such images can easily be planted to suit the needs of the media in further fanning the flames. Who knows when those celebrations really took place and in what honour. And who knows what bullshit is being fed over there about the US et al. Just a few thoughts on this monday eve. mags, trying to be quiet and still. Kate Bennett wrote: > Okay, I hesitated posting this because I do not want to fan these flames. > And I am horrified & saddened to hear the reports of violence to middle > eastern people. That said I have to respond with my reaction to the > following post in which someone wrote: > > "CNN, the channel that has been trying to discredit the Palestinians by > using images of > Arab children celebrating the destruction of the twin towers?" > > 1) I have had CNN on day & night since tuesday & have never seen this > footage...i have heard others talking about it but haven't seen it on my > version of CNN... > > 2) got a message from a friend who was an eye witness to a similar > celebration (not on TV) & it occurred here in this country > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett > www.katebennett.com > sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com > Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: > http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html > ******************************************** - -- And this loving is a drawing close, a tuning in, an opening. Until one perfect moment; but how can it be expressed? A receiving, an enfolding as I cradle you in my arms. Within my heart, within my soul, You are my true love. --Lui Collins - --- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:07:56 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Subject: Indeed, something to think about Paul, i think i understand what you are trying to say but you misunderstand me... i have already gotten on with my life, i have smiled & laughed & cracked jokes as often as i have cried lately... but i will always grieve this tragedy...always... there is no "appropriate time for grieving" ... its no one's business to tell another how to feel ... we are all made of different stuff ...btw your sentence re: wallowing offends me greatly.... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** Kate and everyone, Grieving is appropriate for about as long as they are still digging out the bodies, but soon you and I, we all, must snap out of it, raise the flags to full-staff and get on with our lives. If we let the terrorists affect us permanently; if we let them change the way we live; if we let them thrust us into a deep wallow of misery and grief, then we let them win. I, for one, do not intend to let them win. I hope that the rest of you will not continue to wallow for much longer. The sooner we return to our way of life; the sooner we show that we cannot be driven down so easily, the better. Soon it will be time to find something to smile about. Start getting ready. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:07:54 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Jeff Buckley NJC just remembered this little bit of tim buckley trivia...in our high school yearbook we got to chose one candid (me & my geetar of course) & a quote...mine was from tim buckley tell me a lie & i'll cry for you tell me of sin & i'll laugh if you tell me of all the pain you've had i'll never smile again i think that was it...(my poor parents...) ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 22:29:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: 1/11/99 Time Asia exclusive interview summoned by bin Laden NJC - --- RoseMJoy@aol.com wrote: > For those of you who don't have AOL, this is a link > to an interview summoned > by bin Laden on 1/11/99, a month following the > attack on the U.S. embassies > in Africa. > > http://www.time.com/time/asia/asia/magazine/1999/990111/osama1.html > Here's another couple of urls - until this happened, I had no idea who this guy was. I'm not sure I know even now, but he is quite scary. 1. an interview from 1993 http://inic.utexas.edu/menic/utaustin/course/oilcourse/mail/saudi/0007.html 2. and this one (an interview from 1998 http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/interview.html Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 22:31:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Another perspective NJC - --- IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > And on another plane, why is it that it always > seems like the dictatorships > we supported against the Soviets are just as bad or > worse than what the > Soviets would have installed? A dictator is a dictator. How do you remove a dictator from power? Usually by force. Then what? a democratic election? Usually not, since whoever overthrew the dictator in the first place usually has the same thirst for power. I dunno... Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 22:37:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: backlash towards muslims I hope and pray that these incidents against Muslims, or Arabs, or whatever, are isolated ones only - this type of thing is done by ignorant and cowardly people who use any opportunity to commit violence against others. There was a fire in a Hindu temple here in southern Ontario over the weekend. At the time I read about it, they didn't know the cause but were "hoping" it wasn't deliberate. If it was deliberate, and done by someone as a backlash against this terrorist act, then it would be typical of this kind of goon not to even know the difference between a Hindu and a Muslim, which would kind of prove my point - any excuse to be a racist goon. If it was deliberate, I hope they nail whoever did it big time. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 21:21:18 -0500 From: Scott and Jody Subject: "God Bless Him For A Great Song"NJC(Long) Hi Everyone, I'm going now to light a candle for each and everyone of you on this list. Thank you so much for all that have written about your experiences, thoughts and prayers. We live a few doors down from a grade school. This morning I was late getting the paper. When I reached the pavement, strains of "God Bless America" filled our street. Tiny, out of tune voices and an out of tune piano came at me like angels from up above. I couldn't move. The rain came and I just stood there...... A friend of ours wrote this for the Chicago Sun-Times this past Saturday. I'd like to pass it on. Much Love, jody and scott God bless him for a great song September 15, 2001 bylnie:BY ANDREW HERRMANN SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST It's happened every day since Tuesday. Tears, yes. Rage, too. But what I'm thinking of is singing. ''God Bless America,'' specifically. Eighty-three years after Irving Berlin wrote the piece as a musical homage to his adopted nation, the song continues to serve as a unifying force for America. This week it could be heard coming from churches across the country. Pentagon workers erupted spontaneously with its lyrics on Thursday as President Bush visited the scene of the terrorist atttack there. Mayor Daley asked that it be sung across the city on Friday. Members of Congress sang it as a sign of bipartisanship. "Great crises are marked by their memorable moments,'' Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said a little more than 24 hours after Tuesday's attack. "People will long remember seeing and hearing the members of Congress spontaneously breaking out into 'God Bless America.' Who will ever forget the display of national unity on the steps of the Capitol Building? What a wonderful thing for the world to see.'' [an error occurred while processing this directive] ''God Bless America'' was introduced by singer Kate Smith in 1938, but Berlin actually had written the piece some 20 years earlier for a World War I Army camp show called "Yip! Yip! Yaphank.'' The song did not make the cut. Years later, after returning from a European business trip convinced that Hitler's ambitions would bring a world war, Berlin was determined to write what he called "a great peace song.'' Stuck, he suddenly remembered his piece from years earlier. He had to change some of the lyrics he had originally penned in 1918. "One of the original lines read, 'Make her victorious on land and foam.' Well, I didn't want a war song so I changed it to, 'From the mountains to the prairies to the oceans white with foam.' It altered the meter but I think it's better,'' Berlin once said. Berlin also changed the original "to the right with a light from above'' to "through the night'' to remove any suggestion of politics. Smith sang it on CBS radio during a special veterans' show on Nov. 11, 1938. The song had its critics: Church-state separatists wondered, Why should God bless America? A popular New York preacher made headlines by attacking it as mawkish and doggerel (though anti-Semitism probably was at work there). The Klu Klux Klan called for a boycott. A Billboard magazine story from a few years ago noted that it was sung unflatteringly during the Vietnam War and that Archie Bunker in ''All in the Family'' used the lyrics to argue with his hippie son-in-law Michael. But the song has endured as a kind of unofficial American anthem--easier to sing than ''The Star-Spangled Banner'' and more rousing. "My father came to this country from Russia as a 5-year-old boy and lived on the Lower East Side,'' Berlin's oldest daughter, novelist Mary Ellin Barrett, wrote. "He became a [street singer] and then a singing waiter and then a songwriter. He felt incredible gratitude to this country for giving him the chance to become who he became.'' To sing the song, she said, is to make an incredibly personal statement. "It isn't 'God Bless America, land that we love.' It's 'God Bless America, land that I love,' '' she noted. Berlin, who died at age 101 in 1989, said his song ''White Christmas'' made him rich, "but 'God Bless America' is the closest to me emotionally.'' In fact, he devoted royalties of the song to charities under the God Bless America Fund. An estimated $5 million from the song has been given to the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. Smith's version is rarely heard anymore, particularly by people of my age and younger. We learned the song in school, if we were lucky. Otherwise, the words and the tune we just somehow picked up living the American experience: God bless America, land that I love. Stand beside her and guide her Through the night with the light from above From the mountains to the prairies To the oceans white with foam God bless America, my home sweet home Or at least we think we know it. One verse I was unaware of includes the line, "While the storm clouds gather far across the sea, let us swear allegiance to a land that's free.'' The storm clouds gathered here on our own soil this week. A CHEERS for Irving Berlin, a man whose lasting gift gave us something sturdy to hold on to. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:57:07 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: CNN njc > in my humble opinion, we need to be very careful about believing/ buying > into / reacting to the aforementioned images which depict celebrations in > the street which were supposedly in response to the tragedies of last > Tuesday. ... by this I mean that such images can easily be planted to suit > the needs of the media in further fanning the flames. Who knows when those > celebrations really took place and in what honour. And who knows what > bullshit is being fed over there about the US et al. Just a few thoughts on > this monday eve. This is something that occurred to me too. How do we know what those celebrations were about or when they were filmed? It's too easy to just believe everything you see & hear on tv. Mark E ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 23:43:20 EDT From: TerryM2222@aol.com Subject: Re: CNN njc According to Urban Legends at about.com (http://www.urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa091101aa.htm): News footage of Palestinians celebrating the attacks was old or faked RUMOR: "I've received several copies of a message alleging that CNN is using 1991 footage of celebrating Palestinians and passing it off as 2001 footage of Palestinians supposedly celebrating the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon." STATUS: False. Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat wouldn't be on record as condemning such demonstrations if they hadn't happened, besides which they were also documented by news outlets other than CNN. Eason Jordan, CNN's chief news executive, called the rumors "baseless and ridiculous" and says the footage in question was shot by a Reuters crew in East Jerusalem on Tuesday. << > in my humble opinion, we need to be very careful about believing/ buying > into / reacting to the aforementioned images which depict celebrations in > the street which were supposedly in response to the tragedies of last > Tuesday. ... by this I mean that such images can easily be planted to suit > the needs of the media in further fanning the flames. Who knows when those > celebrations really took place and in what honour. And who knows what > bullshit is being fed over there about the US et al. Just a few thoughts on > this monday eve. This is something that occurred to me too. How do we know what those celebrations were about or when they were filmed? It's too easy to just believe everything you see & hear on tv. Mark E >> www.addconsults.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 20:16:37 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Subject: Indeed, something to think about Kate, I'm with you. However long it takes...... Kakki > but i will always grieve this tragedy...always... > > there is no "appropriate time for grieving" ... its no one's >business to tell another how to feel ... we are all made of >different stuff ...btw your sentence re: wallowing offends >me greatly.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 20:41:20 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: CNN njc in your humble opinion you are right mags...;~) i am glad i haven't seen this footage... i hope my friend was wrong about what she saw too... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 20:39:02 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC Thanks Jenaya Thanks Jenaya for trying to clarify something that has become increasingly murky! > American Conservatives (and Liberals) would do well >to find new titles - the ones they have now are almost >ironic. (And not in the Alanis Morrisette > way) Oh brother ain't that the truth?! The fact that the term (from the American aspect) has to be so painstakingly defined, defended and distinguished sure tells us that there is more confusion than clarity about it at this point! Again, this is why I hate labels!! ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 00:42:09 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Something to smile about Paul I wrote: <> Well bless my buttons, Paul, you have written a post I actually agree with!! (Mostly) However, I do feel that grieving is an individual thing, and people must take the time they need to do whatever they need to do to heal, however long it takes. For me, I was in a complete melt-down for 3 days. I couldn't function at all, barely able to give the kids Cheerios for dinner. I cried until I thought there were no more tears left. Then I picked myself up by the bootstraps, and decided that I WOULD NOT let these terroists get the best of me. I wrote checks to the Red Cross, the Firefighters Association, and the United Way of New York. I called to find out when I could give blood, since I knew they had an abundance of donated blood already. I lit candles, prayed for peace, and decided "not" to cancel my flight to Boulder this Thursday for Parent's weekend. I also did something VERY cool that I fervently hope will bring a great light into this community, and will be something WONDERFUL to look forward to. It is a little too soon to say, but as soon as I possibly can, I will let you in on the scoop. In the meantime, as Paul has said: < > Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 00:47:29 -0400 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Re: CNN njc - ---------------------- Forwarded by Stephen Epstein/Agmont on 09/17/2001 09:37 PM --------------------------- Stephen Epstein 09/17/2001 09:41 PM To: Mags cc: Subject: Re: CNN njc (Document link not converted) Mags, I made a personal commitment when I began to subscribe to this list over a year and a half ago, that I would refrain from getting invloved in either a political or religious discussion- because in these matters, there is never agreement, and only discord. But yet, I must speak up on this one. The pictures of Palestinians celebrating on Sept 11th are VERY clear in my mind. Perhaps they were filmed in the past, but believe me, those awful celebrations, did indeed exist. There was an article in todays paper, by AP that stated that Arafat is in big time damage control - to cover up- and to show to the world that, this is not happening in Palestine. It is a VERY clear fact, that Palestinian children, being schooled in Israel, are continually being taught to hate Jews, to stone them, and kill them. What the feck is our world coming to when suppossed innocent children are being instructed to proliferated such hatred? ACK!!!!! Stephen in Vancouver NP: Kyle Eastwood in my humble opinion, we need to be very careful about believing/ buying into / reacting to the aforementioned images which depict celebrations in the street which were supposedly in response to the tragedies of last Tuesday. ... by this I mean that such images can easily be planted to suit the needs of the media in further fanning the flames. Who knows when those celebrations really took place and in what honour. And who knows what bullshit is being fed over there about the US et al. Just a few thoughts on this monday eve. mags, trying to be quiet and still. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 21:47:31 -0700 From: Rick and Susan Subject: Re: Subject: Another perspective njc From: Bruyere > Does anyone know where one can get reliable information on these people > (bin laden, the Taliban) which describes what they are all about. I am > such a stickler about education. Hi Heather Here's a link to the CBC page about the Taliban: http://www.cbc.ca/news/indepth/background/taliban.html It has links to other articles and interviews including a link to Afghanistan Online. Ranger Rick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 01:50:31 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Wallowing NJC While I wouldn't call it wallowing, exactly, I do feel that reporters are fighting to find the victims' stories that are the biggest tear-jerkers, and selling these stories because of their poignancy quotient. I can completely understand someone's need to turn away from the TV and news when we are no longer hearing the news, but an exploitation of the private grief of the victim's families. At this point, I'd like to be able to keep up with the continuing developments without so much peeping. We're dealing with carnage that is beyond comprehension, and, IMHO the telling and retelling of each individual victim's circumstance is media cannibalism. Sure, there's enough "human interest" in all of this for a lifetime of sorrow and fear. It's important to grieve, and it's important to recognize that you must move forward when your grief isn't serving your healing. I'm numb, and shocked and saddened, but I'm also now aware of a kind of media preoccupation with the very horrific details. Maybe this is what Paul meant by wallowing. Frankly, I'm a little disturbed at how the camera pulls in for that close-up of the subject breaking down and then lingers to exploit pain that is too personal and too important to market as "news." Ken, heading back to SF ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #416 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?