From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #413 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, September 17 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 413 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Jeff Buckley's music on VH1(NJC) [RobSher50@aol.com] Re: NJC 1 answer to bigotry ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Jeff Buckley's music on VH1(NJC) ["Victor Johnson" ] NJC!!!! (another perspective...) [Ricw1217@aol.com] Re: Jeff Buckley's music on VH1(NJC) [Jason Maloney ] Re: Jeff Buckley's music on VH1(NJC) [RobSher50@aol.com] Re: Jeff Buckley's music on VH1(NJC) [RobSher50@aol.com] Re: NJC 1 answer to bigotry [Catherine McKay ] Boy! Am I glad I'm here (NJC) [RobSher50@aol.com] Re: NJC 1 answer to bigotry [Catherine McKay ] Re: Boy! Am I glad I'm here (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Re: crying njc [Vince Lavieri ] Re: NJC answer to bigotry and Kakki ["Kakki" ] Re: NJC 1 answer to bigotry ["Kakki" ] Vince njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Observations (njc) ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 21:22:23 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Jeff Buckley's music on VH1(NJC) Last night and today, I heard a very beautiful song sung by someone whose name I have heard referenced on the JMDL before. His name is Jeff Buckley, and the name of the song is "Hallelujah." It was absolutely touching and beautiful. There was no video that showed his face. What was shown was a series of scenes showing rescue workers, fireman and citizens showing love for each other. It was perfect. From hearing this song, I have concluded that I really like Jeff Buckley. Any fans of his out there? Sherelle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 18:26:43 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: NJC 1 answer to bigotry > Bin Laden in addition to his belief in terrorism, also follows generally > conservative beliefs as regards freedoms, womens rights, gay people etc. These > are views commonly held by conservatives, are the views we here conservatives I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, Colin, and say that I think you are inaccurate with your terminology. I don't think that being a political conservative means that someone is bigoted or narrow-minded or against gay or women's or anybody's rights, at least not in this country. There are extremist elements who spew hate & divisiveness in the name of many religious and political causes. To paint all conservatives (or liberals or Christians or Muslims or Jews or whatever) with the same brush is inaccurate and wrong. This is a point that I have seen Kakki fight to put across time & time again. I don't always agree with her political stances and I don't even know if she identifies as a conservative. But she is no bigot. She is not narrow-minded. She has a sharp intelligence, a compassionate heart and is always striving to see all sides of a situation before she makes up her mind. She is not guided by any one party's line. She thinks for herself. The same could be said for many 'conservatives'. And yes, Colin, I understand that you did not say anything negative about Kakki nor did you intend to imply anything bad about her. I'm just stating for the record what I know about her. Thank you, Vince, for your immediate response to try & clear this up. I know in my heart that you did not mean to offend anyone or equate political conservatives in the US with Bin Laden in any way. Hate & narrow-mindedness hide behind many masks. Some of the groups that attract & harbor the hateful & the ignorant are indeed representative of those people. But just because some of the hatemongers identify as conservative or Christian or whatever, it does not mean that all conservatives or Christians are hatemongers. Mark E ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 21:30:54 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Jeff Buckley's music on VH1(NJC) > It was perfect. From hearing this song, I have concluded that > I really like Jeff Buckley. Any fans of his out there? > > Sherelle I love Jeff Buckley! He has such a unique voice and so completely expresses his passion. My favorite recording of his is the 5 song EP "Live at Sin-E", recorded in New York no less. Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 20:41:24 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Subject: Clarification: Joni's next project "Lamadoo" wrote: >>The scary part is the working title: "Swan Song". >>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OO >>OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OO >>OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OO >>OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !! I'm sure this is just typical Joni humor. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 21:40:05 EDT From: Ricw1217@aol.com Subject: Another perspective god help me, sending incendiary political fodder to this tinder box of a list, but i found the perspective in this article quite compelling and important. i've never done it before and i seriously question the wisdom of doing it now, but it may well be that tuesday last has set into motion a series of events in which thousands, if not millions more innocent people will die. before we watch our fellow citizens jump on that bandwagon, consider the following...and if this provokes discussion, and i think it should, i hope it is a respectful one. in peace, ric > Tamim, a writer and columnist in San Francisco is originally from > Afghanistan. > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone > Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean > killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, > but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we > do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the > belly to do what must be done." > > And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am > from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never > lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will > listen how it all looks from where I'm standing. > > I speak as one who deeply hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. My hatred > comes from first hand experience. There is no doubt in my mind that these > people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something > must be done about those monsters. > > But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the > government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who > took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a > plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden,think > Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in > the concentration camps." > > It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. > They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone > would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of > international thugs holed up in their country. > > Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The > answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few > years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled > orphans in Afghanistan-a country with no economy, no food. There are > millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in > mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all > destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan > people have not overthrown the Taliban. > > We come now to the question of "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." > Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the > Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn > their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. > Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? > Too late. Someone already did all that. > > New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least > get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, > only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe > the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too > fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping > bombs would not really be a strike against the criminals who did this > horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the > Taliban-by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time. > > So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true > fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with > ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be > done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as > needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent > people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table > is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting > their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than > that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go > through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan > would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see > where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West. > > And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. > That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right > there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem > ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the > West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those > lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better > from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the West > would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years and > millions would > die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that? Unfortunately, > Bin Laden does. Anyone else? > > In Peace, > > Tamim Ansary ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 21:41:54 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: For the fire fighters this is an excerpt from Walt Whitman's "Song of Me" in "Leaves of Grass" I understand the large hearts of heroes, The courage of present times and all times, How the skipper saw the crowded and rudderless wreck of the steam-ship, and Death chasing it up and down the storm, How he knuckled tight and gave not back an inch, and was faithful of days and faithful of nights, And chalk'd in large letters on a board, Be of good cheer, we will not desert you; How he follow'd with them and tack'd with them three days and would not give it up, How he saved the drifting company at last, How the lank loose-gown'd women look'd when boated from the side of their prepared graves, How the silent old-faced infants and the lifted sick, and the sharp-lipp'd unshaved men; All this I swallow, it tastes good, I like it well, it becomes mine, I am the man, I suffer'd, I was there. Agonies are one of my changes of garments, I do not ask the wounded person how he feels, I myself become the wounded person, My hurts turn livid upon me as I lean on a cane and observe. I am the mash'd fireman with breast-bone broken, Tumbling walls buried me in their debris, Heat and smoke I inspired, I heard the yelling shouts of my comrades, I heard the distant click of their picks and shovels, They have clear'd the beams away, they tenderly lift me forth. I lie in the night air in my red shirt, the pervading hush is for my sake, Painless after all I lie exhausted but not so unhappy, White and beautiful are the faces around me, the heads are bared of their fire-caps, The kneeling crowd fades with the light of the torches. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 21:44:28 EDT From: Ricw1217@aol.com Subject: NJC!!!! (another perspective...) shit. i forgot the njc tag. my apologies. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 02:43:05 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Jeff Buckley's music on VH1(NJC) Hi Sherrelle, I noticed there was something featuring JB on VH-1 today, but didn't have the chance to watch it. The media are prone to attaching potent emotional images to suitable exisitng songs (if the artist is deceased it can add to the effect), but often it does work. This sounds like one of those times, perhaps. I'd highly recommed checking out some more JB, although the Grace album (his only studio release while alive) is not all like Hallelujah. Sketches For My Sweetheart The Drunk, an assortment of unfinished material that would have led to a 2nd album proper, is also available as well as the Live EP mentioned by Victor. He possessed a truly amazing voice. Like many other talents who've passed away before their time, he will be missed. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 22:45:34 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: Jeff Buckley's music on VH1(NJC) Yes!! I Saw that Video Too. It is a cover of the Leonard Cohen Song.. Which several listers have been discussing the John Cale version. But I must admit, the Jeff Buckley version is just beautiful. and on VH1 they only broadcasted 3 of the 6 verses, wait to you hear the song in its entirety, Sherelle!!! Get "Grace" first and yes, the 5song-ep is good too.. Then the posthumously released "Sketches for My Sweetheart the Drunk" and the live album are keepers as well BLAAir> > > It was perfect. From hearing this song, I have concluded that > > I really like Jeff Buckley. Any fans of his out there? > > > > Sherelle > >I love Jeff Buckley! He has such a unique voice and so completely >expresses >his passion. My favorite recording of his is the 5 song EP "Live at >Sin-E", >recorded in New York no less. > >Victor > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 21:09:36 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: New York Minute (njc) driving in calgary after a hike, the radio played quite a song...and interspersed with it was the recorded sounds of america this past week...very moving, don henley's, new york minute Harry got up Dressed all in black Went down to the station And he never came back They found his clothing Scattered somewhere down the track And he won't be down on Wall Street in the morning He had a home The love of a girl But men get lost sometimes As years unfurl One day he crossed some line And he was too much in this world But I guess it doesn't matter anymore In a New York minute Everything can change In a New York minute Things can get pretty strange In a New York minute Everything can change In a New York minute Lying here in the darkness I hear the sirens wail Somebody going to emergency Somebody's going to jail If you find somebody to love in this world You better hang on tooth and nail The wolf is always at the door In a New York minute Everything can change In a New York minute Things can get a little strange In a New York minute Everything can change In a New York minute And in these days When darkness falls early And people rush home To the ones they love You better take a fool's advice And take care of your own One day they're here; Next day they're gone I pulled my coat around my shoulders And took a walk down through the park The leaves were falling around me The groaning city in the gathering dark On some solitary rock A desperate lover left his mark, "Baby, I've changed. Please come back." What the head makes cloudy The heart makes very clear The days were so much brighter In the time when she was here But I know there's somebody somewhere Make these dark clouds disappear Until that day, I have to believe I believe, I believe In a New York minute Everything can change In a New York minute You can get out of the rain In a New York minute Everything can change In a New York minute shane ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 23:10:15 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: Jeff Buckley's music on VH1(NJC) Jason, I did not know that Jeff Buckley was deceased. My apologies. There was another singer who died at an early age who sang a hauntingly beautiful song about the moon. I heard the song while watching a Volkswagen commercial and it was discussed that the song was one about suicide instead of a beautiful night (What Volkswagen was putting across to the consumer) Would this be the same person? I seem to hear that same haunting beauty. Sherelle In a message dated 09/16/2001 6:49:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jason.maloney@virgin.net writes: > Hi Sherrelle, > > I noticed there was something featuring JB on VH-1 today, but didn't > have the chance to watch it. The media are prone to attaching potent > emotional images to suitable exisitng songs (if the artist is deceased > it can add to the effect), but often it does work. This sounds like one > of those times, perhaps. > > I'd highly recommed checking out some more JB, although the Grace album > (his only studio release while alive) is not all like Hallelujah. > Sketches For My Sweetheart The Drunk, an assortment of unfinished > material that would have led to a 2nd album proper, is also available as > well as the Live EP mentioned by Victor. > > He possessed a truly amazing voice. Like many other talents who've > passed away before their time, he will be missed. > > Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 23:13:21 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: Jeff Buckley's music on VH1(NJC) In a message dated 09/16/2001 7:45:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, donjuansrd80@hotmail.com writes: > > > Blair, > That sounds like a winner! I can't wait to hear the song in its entirety! > Even though it's a cover, Jeff made that song his own. He did an excellent > job! > > > > Yes!! I Saw that Video Too. It is a cover of the Leonard Cohen Song.. > Which several listers have been discussing the John Cale version. But I > must > admit, the Jeff Buckley version is just beautiful. and on VH1 they only > broadcasted 3 of the 6 verses, wait to you hear the song in its entirety, > Sherelle!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 23:28:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC 1 answer to bigotry Calling that type "conservative" is, um, a bit of an understatement, don't you think"? A conservative is someone who wishes to "conserve" - to keep things as they are. These people are NOT conservatives - they are right-wing fanatics - and, when you're dealing with fanatics, it doesn't matter whether they're right- or left-wing - a fanatic is a fanatic. I usually think of a "conservative" as a moderate type, hardly what you would call bin Laden OR Jerry Falwell, who are, to put it mildly, over the top. - --- colin wrote: > I am sorry you are upset Kakki. I don't think Vince > meant it the way you took it > and I am certain he was not baiting anyone. > > Bin Laden in addition to his belief in terrorism, > also follows generally > conservative beliefs as regards freedoms, womens > rights, gay people etc. These > are views commonly held by conservatives, are the > views we here conservatives > give out all the time. > This is not the same thing as comparing Bin laden's > terrorist tactics with > conservatives. > having said that, there are rabid conservatives who > bomb abortion clinics, who > want gay people put to death, who want women > stripped of their rights and be > just baby producers. > > Those on the far left are not much different! > > > > > > Kakki wrote: > > > I know I should not respond to this. I know I > should try not to react and > > be baited. I know that some people here will in > the future throw digs at me > > for this. I am shaking all over. This remark > from a man of God is just as > > hateful as Falwell's remarks. Compaing > "conservatives" to Bin Laden. This > > is vile. Kakki > > > > > Apparently, Osama bin Laden does. His deity also > is petty, sadistic, > > > violent and generally conservative in his > politics. > > -- > bw > colin > DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 > and 270, Passap 6000 > Duo80 > colin@tantra-apso.com > http://www.tantra-apso.com Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 23:36:34 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Boy! Am I glad I'm here (NJC) I just got WebMD chat and my head is reeling! (Please forgive me, I need to vent to sane people for a minute!) I went to the "Mental Health" chatroom because I needed to be around other people who may have been feeling out of sorts like I have been since these awful attacks. In spite of our problems and differences, JMDL is the best list in the world. At least there is some sense of sanity here. While I was trying to talk about my feelings, another poor fellow was already in conversation and needed someone to talk to. His wife died 3 months earlier with an embolism. He had the sadness of finding out that she was seeing someone else and was planning on leaving him right before this happened. Even still, his last words were only loving to her. Then this "person" started saying things like, "Man! There are a bunch of "f.....ing" whineyasses up here today." (She later claimed she had a civil hour chat with him prior to my arrival) Now, maybe I'm wrong, but that's not exactly conducive to me wanting to tell you my heartfelt secrets! The four of us collectively tried to open a private chat room, but could not. So we moved to the Cancer chat room as no one was there. This same person followed us and began harassing us in that room as well. She left and what we thought was the moderator came in. We were relieved! We asked the moderator to help us get to a private chat room. When we thought we were there, the "moderator" took us on what is affectionately called a "train ride." We were connected to her, so wherever she went, we went. The poor fellow was so upset, he left. The sad part is that he was talking about feeling like dying. I went back about an hour ago in hopes I could find him again, and that same person was there. I asked her why, as a moderator, she did such a thing. I was told that I could not save the world, and it was not my responsibility if someone wanted to "off" themselves. I was floored! Then this innocent person started asking for help. I told her no one would help her here. (I'm sorry, I would have done it again) After telling me that I couldn't save the world, all of a sudden, I was the bad guy, because the lady left. (It couldn't have been that the moderator was telling someone to go kill themselves-it supposedly was her playing a joke with someone else) The whole thing was very, very sick. I reported it to WebMD. Guys, is it just me, or are all chats this disturbed? Sherelle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 23:38:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC 1 answer to bigotry Answering myself... I guess that stuff has been kind of cleared up now - I am behind in reading. - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > Calling that type "conservative" is, um, a bit of an > understatement, don't you think"? A conservative is > someone who wishes to "conserve" - to keep things as > they are. These people are NOT conservatives - they > are right-wing fanatics - and, when you're dealing > with fanatics, it doesn't matter whether they're > right- or left-wing - a fanatic is a fanatic. I > usually think of a "conservative" as a moderate > type, > hardly what you would call bin Laden OR Jerry > Falwell, > who are, to put it mildly, over the top. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 23:41:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Boy! Am I glad I'm here (NJC) - --- RobSher50@aol.com wrote: > I just got WebMD chat and my head is reeling! > (Please forgive me, I need to > vent to sane people for a minute!) > ... > Guys, is it just me, or are all chats this > disturbed? > Wow - that is really sick! I don't use chatrooms and now I've got a good reason why. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 23:45:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: crying njc - --- kerry wrote: > This reminds me of a book I once read. I'm not a > conventionally religious > person but I liked this thought: The author talked > about people telling you > that it's "God's will" when something horrible > happens. This is just not > comforting and leaves us more confused than before. > He went on to say that > maybe things just don't make sense and that God is > grieving along with us. I don't get that either - if it's God's will, then God isn't a very nice person. I figure if God was really that omnipotent and controlling, he'd never let anyone do anything bad. Good people would never suffer. Some people say it's God's will and others get all pissed off about it and blame God - as far as i'm concerned, if God is responsible for this, then who would want to believe in God (which makes the whole idea of things being God's will or God's fault kind of redundant.) It's people that did this - evil people, but merely people, apparently of their own free will. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 00:05:49 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: crying njc It was not God's will, as has been stated so eloquently - it was human sin and evil. People need to stop blaming God and making God responsible for their own actions. People choose to commit evil - oh is this a new thing after Kosovo, Ireland, Chiapas, Rwanda, or anywhere else we could name? Kosovo: Orthodox kill Muslims Bosnia: Orthodox and Catholics kill Muslims Macedonia: Muslims kill Orthodox Rwanda: Catholics kill Catholics Chiapas: the state kills Native peoples Ireland: Catholics kill Protestants as Protestants kill Catholics India: Hindus kill Muslims, Muslims occasionally kill Hindus, both occasionally kill Sikhs. Nepal: Buddhists kill Buddhists Japan: cult religions kill Shintos Israel: Jews kill Palestinians Palestine: Palestinians kill Jews England: soccer team fans kill other soccer team fans Osama bin Laden: kills Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and others not yet identified. maybe it's not God but people using God to justify their own evil. And God is always with the suffering, but getting the blame. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 20:34:48 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC answer to bigotry and Kakki Vince, Thank you for the clarification. Thank you very much. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 20:45:52 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC 1 answer to bigotry Mark, Thank you very much. Just when I am feeling pretty misunderstood around here sometimes, I find that there are people (like you) who do seem to know me for what I am. You are right that my "politics" are not easily definable - at least they do not fit into any one box, especially narrowly proscribed ones. I do strive to think for myself on issues and have also been influenced politically by a Teddy Rooseveldt Republican/Libertarian father and a Franklin Rooseveldt Democrat mother and my beliefs very much take from both sides. Regardless of that, I consider myself first and foremost an American. When I was growing up I was taught that a "conservative" is essentially someone who wants to "conserve" the U.S. constitution, i.e. don't mess with the basic freedoms and protections that it embodies. Being "conservative" did not mean ANY of the other various and sundry additional definitions that have been painted on it. Maybe new terms will have to evolve to better distinguish or characterize what people stand for politically. Thank you again, Mark. I really appreciate it. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 21:08:07 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Vince njc My heart goes out to you. I know you are worried about your son who is in the marines. I am also a pacifist & my husband's daughter is married to a man who is in the army. They have 3 daughters. I am praying praying praying for god's deep wisdom to enter our leaders' hearts & minds. Thank you for the beautiful prayer. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 22:36:53 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Observations (njc) I just went out to the local gas station to pick up a pack of cigarettes (unfortunately, I am smoking incessantly these days but not quite up to Joni volume). As I was there two men in official Army camo uniforms pulled up in a private vehicle to pick up some smokes themselves. I tried to convey my love and appreciation to them in that small moment. Regarding the backlash towards Muslims and Arabs in the U.S. now. I really did not think people could be so cruel but incidents have happened - even here in L.A. where I thought we were more sensitive. There is a secretary in my office who is a converted Muslim. She has always worn a certain kind of garment to work that looks pretty much like a nun's habit. On Wednesday morning when we returned to work, she was in Western clothing. Last Friday night I heard many loud sirens going with several fire trucks and police cars speeding down my street. A bit later, I had to go out and found a large section of a main street blockaded and surrounded by the police cars and fire trucks. I was relived to find out later that it was just heightened security for the Madonna concert! One of my co-workers tonight was at Madonna's concert here Thursday night. The way she described it made several of us choke up. Madonna had tears throughout and did everything she could to promote healing and unity among the crowd. She is giving the proceeds of these concerts to the orphans in New York. Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #413 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?