From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #412 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, September 16 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 412 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #411 [Evan + Vanessa Thomson ] Today in Joni History: September 16 [les@jmdl.com] Today's Articles: September 16 [les@jmdl.com] Moulin Rouge... oops! [Evan + Vanessa Thomson ] NJC Re: Jonifest, 2001 and 1/2 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] prayers revised njc [Vince Lavieri ] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #406 [PMcfad@aol.com] we're a cog in something turning ["marianne marianne" ] Here is Something We CAn DO!!! ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) [Br] Down From the Mountain - njc [Jerry Notaro ] NJC 1 answer to bigotry [Vince Lavieri ] M. Rouge - NJC [CarltonCT@aol.com] Re: prayers revised njc [dsk ] Trudeau's response to terrorism (njc) ["shane mattison" ] Re: Take a look at my online photos! [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: M. Rouge - NJC [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: NJC 1 answer to bigotry ["Kakki" ] Re: Jonifest, 2001 and 1/2(njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: NJC 1 answer to bigotry [colin ] Re: M. Rouge - NJC [Jason Maloney ] Re: Angel-clarification (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: NJC 1 answer to bigotry [colin ] [none] ["marianne marianne" ] Re: M. Rouge - NJC [Vince Lavieri ] Re: NJC answer to bigotry and Kakki [Vince Lavieri ] crying njc ["kerry" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 17:49:09 +1000 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #411 > And as to the much discussed anachronistic use of rock songs, for me it > failed at virtually level. The songs were repeated ad nauseam (I could put > up with Elton John's Your Song once, but three times?? And I was less than > halfway through the film!), and the set pieces would have Busby Berkley > spinning in his grave. Michael J Fox doing Johnny B Goode in Back to the > Future said it so much better. > I did like the version of "Roxanne" which made it sound more guttural and sexy. Coupled with the tango... well I did think it made it even sexier. I guess I liked the movie because it was Australian - I loved seeing the local celebrities, the accents etc. I didn't mind the frenetic pace, the mish mash of styles, music etc. I wasn't too keen on Nicole but then she did look the part. I really didn't mind it. I guess it is too action packed, a little over-the-top, too much detail, an assault on the senses and a little incoherent. But then, I forgive it its flaws! I don't think I've seen anything recently that has made me go Oooo... the cinema is usually filled with trite but I liked Moulin Rouge because it was fun. I miss the musical. Vanessa who endured "Dude! Where's My Car?" - now that is shite. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 03:53:07 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: September 16 On September 16 in Joni Mitchell History: 1987: Joni attends a Prince concert - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 03:53:07 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: September 16 On September 16 this article was published: 1997: "Song takes writer to Joni Mitchell's old Detroit apartment " - Detroit News (Appreciation) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/970916dn.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 633 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 20:22:50 +1000 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Moulin Rouge... oops! Please excuse the the no NJC tag... it's been so long! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 07:46:52 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Jonifest, 2001 and 1/2 << When you mentioned the pizza place, I thought of the one I was at in Greenville (near the Holiday Inn Express) during one of the big hurricanes back in around '95 ;-) >> Was probably either Frodo's or Patelli's...we have a pretty good selection of restaurants here and on the weekends EVERYBODY eats out! And I'll forgive you for not calling me when you were in town, since I didn't join the list until '98! ;~) Bob NP: *NEW* Ben Folds, "The Ascent of Stan" -MOST excellent! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 08:45:03 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: prayers revised njc thanks to some wonderful suggestions, our morning prayers have now been revised For those who have died, we shudder at the horror of their deaths in these acts of terror. Rest eternal grant them O Lord, and let light perpetual shine upon them. Holy One, in your mercy: hear our prayer. Almighty God, shield of the oppressed, hear us as we pray for injured and the hurting. Be merciful to those who suffer, in body or in mind, to those who are in danger or distress, and who have suffered loss. Let your love surround the infirm and the helpless. Be especially near to those who may yet pass through the valley of death. Grant them also merciful and eternal rest, and the warmth of your perpetual light. Holy One, in your mercy: hear our prayer. Give strength to doctors, nurses, technicians, ambulance drivers, paramedics, chaplains and ministers, and those who care for the ill and injured. Bless with your mercy all fire and police personnel, soldiers and others in military service and those who watch over the public safety. Comfort them in their own pain in the midst of these things. Keep them strong as they battle the devastation of terrorist attacks, trusting in your power to overcome death and pain and crying. Holy One, in your mercy: hear our prayer. For those who are filled with fear because of the unknown fate of those that they love; Holy One, in your mercy: hear our prayer. For those who are filled with fear because they are of the Islamic faith or Arabic descent, for Alif and all who may be threatened by prejudice and bigotry, Holy One, in your mercy: hear our prayer. For the children, those who have lost parents, and for all children who have been taught this week about evil and who have lost all innocence in seeing the world that they shall inherit from us, Holy One, in your mercy: hear our prayer. For those who have witnessed these tragic events which shall burn forever in their memories, Holy One, in your mercy: hear our prayer. For the people of Israel and Palestine, for the people of Kosovo and Macedonia, for the people of Rwanda, Congo, and Nigeria, for the people of Chiapas, Peru, and Columbia, and all people who suffer and have suffered from recent terrorism and found us unconcerned or oblivious or unhelpful because they were far away and their suffering did not concern us, Holy One, in your mercy: hear our prayer. For those in other countries who have expressed their grief for our suffering and who are praying for us and all people who hurt, Holy One, in your mercy: hear our prayer. For those who organized and who committed these acts, we know that they too are your children and while we may not this day be comfortable with the yoke of love, we must forgive and find a common humanity with those who hate us. Holy One, in your mercy: hear our prayer. For the leaders of our nation and all nations that they might have wisdom, and seek political solutions so that this cycle of violence might end; others must not be added to the list of victims of these days. We beg you in your mercy to stop the headlong rush to war. Holy One, in your mercy: hear our prayer. For those in the military who are on alert, for Jeremy who birthday is this week and for the families of those who serve in the armed services, of this nation and all nations, Holy One, in your mercy: hear our prayer. O God of love, O God of peace, make wars throughout this world to cease. The wrath of sinful folk restrain, give peace, O Holy One, give again. Holy One, in your mercy: hear our prayer. Into your hands, O God, we commend all for whom we pray, trusting in your mercy; through your Son, Jesus Christ our Savior. Amen. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 08:50:44 EDT From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #406 philip, 1. i'm not your dear. 2. it is self centered to view this list from the first person singular. i sent you nothing. my thoughts were shared in support of those who have been bullied by marcel. i don't know you and i certainly did not send YOU anything. it is very possible philip, that your expericence alone is not the only experience. learn to look away. learn to let others share their experiences. 3. you did send me something...you copied me directly. please do not ever send me anything direct again. pat > - ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > > 1. marcel is a cyber rapist. > > Dear Pat, > > Please do not send me any more of this ugly nonsense. > > thanks, > Philip ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 09:04:06 -0400 From: "marianne marianne" Subject: we're a cog in something turning "trying to get my soul free.. . . ." just reading the list. . and of course, thinking of you all. Listening to Woodstock on Shadows and Light. . "get back to the land and try to get my soul free." "Can I walk beside you?" Can I walk beside you? We are stardust, we are golden. . . . We've got to take a stand. We've got to take a stand. When ever, where ever. "and we've got to get ourselves back to the garden. . . to some semblance of a garden. . . " Listen to Woodstock on Shadows and Light. . . feel it. . . listen to it again. We've got to take a stand. . . "billion year old carbon. . . " Live and breathe what you believe. ". . feel like I'm a cog in something turning. . . round." It all comes down to you. strong together can I walk beside you? Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 09:16:41 EDT From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #288 Friday night The Albany Fire Department fought a two-alarm fire in Arbor Hill. My brother Danny was there. When the firefighters were done, the crowd that gathered gave them a round of applause. My brother said that in the 30 years he's been with the Department - that's never happened. People have always appreciated firefighters -- especially when fire hits their homes. I guess we are all feeling what happened in NYC hit our home. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 11:23:09 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Jonifest, 2001 and 1/2 (NC) In a message dated 9/15/01 4:02:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > So true Mr. Muller! I just said goodbye to Coyote Rick Hobbs from LA, who spent three days with us. After being depressed all week, it was great to see Rick again. He's wonderful at keeping everyone's spirit up. It wasn't much of a Joni-fest (only 3 JMDLers), but I assure you...........Joni music was played! Last night we had dinner with a group of my old friends. Of course they all loved Rick, and when asked how we knew each other, Rick and I looked at each other and replied "Joni Mitchell and the Internet". Just one more way Joni has enhanced my life. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 17:24:37 +0100 From: "joe farrell" Subject: auden It was good to read the Auden poem "September 1,1939" on the list, thanks to Yael Harlap for posting it. "We must love one and other or die" says it all really. To all in the US who have lost loved ones our love and sympathy goes out to you all. You are not alone .You are in our hearts and minds at this time. Joe. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 12:19:05 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Here is Something We CAn DO!!! Everyone, I know it is hard for people especially those who live far away to contribute to the rescue workers or just to give their thanks for what is being done. Here is a small way, we can each contribute! Near Lincoln Center is Fire Station 35 and so far they have lost about a dozen men. There is a table outside covered with flowers and letters. The production staff at Juilliard has been asking anyone from anywhere in the world to send their gratittude to the work that these people are doing. So, if you live in Macon, Georgia for example, send a postcard from your town, or a letter just simply saying, "THANKS". I think since this list is filled with such beautiful people, who all care for eachother and have been coping together despite all arguments, we can give back something to these people. The addresss is, Ladder Company 35 NYC Fire Departement 131 Amsterdam Avenue NY, NY 10023 Thank you all again, I am sorry this doens have a NJC tag, but i wanted to include everyone. MUch love Blair _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 12:19:17 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Candles For World Trade Center Victims & Terrorism Hi All, I just received this from a friend and I thought I'd pass it along. If you haven't already, please light a candle for the victims and against terrorism at the WTC site. http://www.worldtradecenter.com/ Love, Rose in NJ rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 12:45:01 -0400 From: Bruyere Subject: Re: No JC Canada's Trib to USA Long but worth it i have many relatives who work for the canadian gov't.. many may think of canada as a gentle giant. i read in a post that they have the problem with terrorist hiding out there also. i have the utmost confidence that our calm neighbors to the north will snuff out terrorist too. canada is a beautiful country and i am very proud of my canadian heritage. heather At 09:24 PM 9/13/01 -0400, Monafitz@aol.com wrote: >Subject: FW: TRIBUTE TO THE UNITED STATES - editorial from a Canadian >news paper > > > > >> America: The Good Neighbor. > > >> > > >> Widespread but only partial news coverage was given > > >> recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from > > >> Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television > > >> commentator. What follows is the full text of his > > >> trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record: > > >> > > >> > > >> "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for > > >> the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least > > >> appreciated people on all the earth. > > >> > > >> Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and > > >> Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the > > >> Americans who poured in billions of dollars and > > >> forgave other billions in debts. None of these > > >> countries is today paying even the interest on its > > >> remaining debts to the United States. > > >> > > >> When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, > > >> it was the Americans who propped it up, and their > > >> reward was to be insulted and swindled on the > > >> streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. > > >> > > >> When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the > > >> United States that hurries in to help. This spring, > > >> 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. > > >> Nobody helped. > > >> > > >> The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped > > >> billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now > > >> newspapers in those countries are writing about the > > >> decadent, warmongering Americans. > > >> > > >> I'd like to see just one of those countries that > > >> is gloating over the erosion of the United States > > >> dollar build its own airplane. Does any other > > >> country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo > > >> Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? > > >> If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the > > >> International lines except Russia fly American > > >> Planes? > > >> > > >> Why does no other land on earth even consider > > >> putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese > > >> technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about > > >> German technocracy, and you get automobiles. > > >> You talk about American technocracy, and you find > > >> men on the moon - not once, but several times - > > >> and safely home again. > > >> > > >> You talk about scandals, and the Americans put > > >> theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at . > > >> Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and > > >> hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, > > >> unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting > > >> American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here. > > >> > > >> When the railways of France, Germany and India > > >> were breaking down through age, it was the Americans > > >> who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and > > >> the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them > > >> an old caboose. Both are still broke. > > >> > > >> I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced > > >> to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name > > >> me even one time when someone else raced to the > > >> Americans in trouble? I don't think there was > > >> outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake. > > >> > > >> Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one > > >> Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get > > >> kicked around. They will come out of this thing with > > >> their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled > > >> to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating > > >> over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not > > >> one of those. > > >> > > >> > > >> Stand proud, America! > > >> > > > >> > > >> This is one of the best editorials that I have ever > > >> read regarding the United States. It is nice that > > >> one man realizes it. I only wish that the rest of > > >> the world share his insight. We are always blamed for > > >> everything, and never even get a thank you for the > > >> things we do. > > >> > > >> I hope each of you send this to as many people as you can and >emphasize that they > > >> should send it to as many of their friends until this letter is sent >to every person on the web. > >Mona A. Fitzgerald >monafitz@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 12:58:05 -0400 From: Bruyere Subject: Re: some good news (njc) this is good news anne! you will remain in my prayers. heather At 12:48 PM 9/14/01 -0400, Anne Sandstrom wrote: >It is a week of tragedy and a week of miracles. > >I met with the surgeon this morning. According to the latest CT scan, the >growth they've been seeing on previous scans has disappeared! It means that >the drug I've been taking could finally be working to shrink and even get >rid of the tumor. Next, they'll be doing an MRI to get another view, just to >be sure. Maybe not quite a miracle, but I'll take it! > >I can't say it enough. Thank you for all your thoughts and prayers. We're >not done, but this is one battle at least we're winning. > >lots (and lots) of love >Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 13:11:23 -0400 From: Bruyere Subject: Re: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) i can not belive this shit. these people are such antagonists! heather At 12:10 PM 9/14/01 -0700, Lori R. Fye wrote: >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28620-2001Sep14.html > >Lori >in MD >~ > >__________________________________________________ >Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? >Donate cash, emergency relief information >http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 14:49:12 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Down From the Mountain - njc Finally got to see Down From the Mountain last night. It is a concert version of the music from O Brother Where Art Thou. Just great, especially, Emmy Lou, Gillian Welch, David Rawlings, and Alison Kraus. Jerry np: Laura Nyro - The Essential Masters ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 15:12:18 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC 1 answer to bigotry Friends, since Robertson and Falwell blamed it all on gays, pro choice people, ACLUers, and feminists - and that is 4 for 4 with me - I have put them out of my mind. I have appreciated deeply the JMDL response to those haters. In fact, of all of the lists to which I belong, including church lists, this is far and away, far far far and away away away the one place where the discussions have had meaning, where everything that is good about life and people has been on display. I thank God for the JMDL. That is not a phrase. I mean, I really thank God for all of you. (the Rev) Vince PS: I got the following from a clergy who are pro-choice list to which I belong, which has run a distant second to the JMDL for meaningful comments, but on their behalf, perhaps they like me have been very busy too. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/columnists/orl-locmiket16091601sep16.column?coll=orl%2Dnews%2Dcol Faith can heal, but it can also spawn hatred Mike Thomas September 16, 2001 People are opportunistic, so they find opportunity even in tragedy. Religious leaders have an opportunity to nourish souls starved for hope with a dose of community and faith. But not Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, two men who have found a different kind of opportunity. The death of thousands has provided them an opportunity to promote even more hatred. Falwell blames feminists, gays, abortion providers and even the American Civil Liberties Union as among those responsible for last week's terrorist attacks. "All of them who have tried to secularize America," he said, "I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen.' " Robertson went one step further. He added the U.S. Supreme Court to the list. "We have a court that has essentially stuck its finger in God's eyes," Robertson wrote in a statement last week. "We have insulted God at the highest level of our government. Then we say, 'Why does this happen?' " The comments by the two most visible spokesmen for conservative Christians should not come as a complete shock. Falwell outed Tinky Winky. Robertson blamed the 1998 Florida brushfires on Gay Pride Day in Orlando. He also warned that the city faced terrorist bombs, earthquakes, storms and meteors because gay pride flags hung downtown. "I would warn Orlando that you're right in the way of some serious hurricanes, and I don't think I'd be waving those flags in God's face if I were you," he said. Now the two televangelists would have us believe that hundreds of firefighters in New York were buried under tons of rubble because God is unhappy with the ACLU and the National Organization for Women. And that young enlisted men in the Pentagon were taken from their families because God disagrees with the majority opinion on school prayer in Engel vs. Vitale. "If we don't repent, then more events might happen in the future," Falwell said. If God is the terrorist they portray him to be, then Middle Eastern zealots are the least of our worries. But I don't believe in infecting supreme beings with the worst human emotions. If I am offended by a gay couple, I don't go out in my car and run over a woman walking her child across the street. I can't believe this would be God's response either. Falwell clarified his remarks by saying that God didn't directly cause last week's tragedy. He just "lifted the curtain of protection" from us. What does this mean? God chose not to alert the FBI? Falwell also warned things only would get worse if liberal groups are allowed to fester. So what do we do? Ban them? Given the alternative of more kamikaze attacks, it certainly makes sense. But first, tell me something, Pat and Jerry. Africa suffers far worse than we ever could imagine. Millions die horribly each year from disease, starvation and civil war. Is there an African branch of the ACLU? Or is it just God's wrath when you two deem it so? I wish I had that kind of pipeline to the Almighty. Apparently, Osama bin Laden does. His deity also is petty, sadistic, violent and generally conservative in his politics. Religion is the best and worst thing to happen to this planet. That is evident as we now watch it kill and divide, but also heal and unite. For questions regarding this list, contact bmargulis@rcrc.org ==^================================================================ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://igc.topica.com/u/?aVxird.aVIHQf Or send an email To: rcrc-clergychoice-unsubscribe@igc.topica.com This email was sent to: revrvl@chartermi.net T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^================================================================ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 15:26:27 EDT From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: M. Rouge - NJC Hi Azeem - Most of what you say about Moulin Rouge is true, but I loved it anyway precisely because it is all the things you criticized. This is a film that Ken Russell would have made if he had digital technology. I thought it looked fantastic and that it worked because it was so excessive. I HATE musicals for the most part but this one worked for me because it was so daring and unexpected and overdone. The script was pathetic in some ways, but it absolutely worked. If you had stayed to watch the rest of the film, you would see how the script suddenly gets very, very clever and repeats itself in the confines of the actual production they put on. The Indian musical at the end is THE best part of the film, a completely garish and ornate production with a thousand extras portraying Hindu deities. The movie was a visual triumph and it has to be accepted that it was made with tongue very firmly in cheek. Vive la difference! - - Clark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 15:39:54 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: prayers revised njc Beautiful prayer, Vince. Thank you for posting it. These parts are most important to me today: > For the children, those who have lost parents, > and for all children who have been taught this week about evil > and who have lost all innocence in seeing the world > that they shall inherit from us, > Holy One, in your mercy: hear our prayer. I visited our neighborhood firehouse today and just stood looking, crying, reading the cards, smelling the scent of hundreds of flowers and burning candles. There were hundred of cards to the firefighters expressing sympathy and appreciation, including many from children that often included drawings of two big rectangles with jagged lines at the top. It's hard enough for adults to cope with this. Children... I pray for them and for the caretakers trying to help them feel safe even as they're suffering and are afraid themselves. > For the people of Israel and Palestine, > for the people of Kosovo and Macedonia, > for the people of Rwanda, Congo, and Nigeria, > for the people of Chiapas, Peru, and Columbia, > and all people who suffer and have suffered from recent terrorism > and found us unconcerned or oblivious or unhelpful > because they were far away and their suffering did not concern us, > Holy One, in your mercy: hear our prayer. I never knew... only saw the suffering within my little tv screen (if it was even covered here at all), only briefly felt their grief. That is different now. > For those in other countries > who have expressed their grief for our suffering > and who are praying for us and all people who hurt, > Holy One, in your mercy: hear our prayer. It's a great comfort to read words of concern from so many people, from everywhere, and to find out what other people are doing during this time, not only hearing about what's happening in workplaces, but hearing about jonifests and movies too (especially movies that inspire waaayyy over the top reviews :-). Anybody else seen Spielberg's "AI"? I saw it the weekend it was released and my question afterwards was "What the hell was that?" I still haven't been able to figure it out. So keep the info coming, please. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 13:45:12 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: Trudeau's response to terrorism (njc) The recent events made me recall Prime Minister Trudeau's quick and decisive response to the FLQ terrorists in Quebec in the October Crisis 1970: War Measures Act BY THE PRIME MINISTER Pierre Elliott Trudeau FRIDAY, OCTOBER 16, 1970 Listen to Trudeau's famous impromptu answer to a reporter who challenged what he had decided to do. http://www.cbc.ca/clips/ram-newsworld/trudeau_watchme.ram Though Trudeau was accused as arrogant and tyrannical by a few Canadians, the facts remain that he thoroughly broke the back of FLQ terrorism in Canada. Shane ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 16:48:56 -0400 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: Clarification: Joni's next project njc Joni's going to London in November to re-record a total of 24 songs for a 2 cd set. In my excitement (and in contrast to planned 80's re-releases with bonus tracks) I called the new project "all new". That was an overstatement borne of enthusiasm. Simon would chatise me if he was lurking, I'm sure. The scary part is the working title: "Swan Song". NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Trying to get it right, Lamadoo np: Neil Young's "Harvest" on LP. I found this recently with the beige, rough paper sleeve and lyric sheet intact. Sweet. npimh: a trip to the photofinisher AGAIN! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 21:58:59 +0100 From: Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #406 Firstly I want to apologise to everyone especially Les Irwin, that I have contributed to prolonging the unpleasantness, especially at this time in our world. I hope you can forgive me but I want to respond to Pat. Pat, Sometimes we need to be careful in our choice of words. To include the word "rapist" in a description of a man seems to me to be unnecessarily hurtful. (Note: I am talking about the meaning of that word as it is universally understood and all the violent and sexual overtones implied therein). Your repetition of it when the man in question had already been expelled from the list seemed very mean spirited indeed. Rape is an emotive word and has only one common meaning in our society Placing the word "cyber" in front lessens it only marginally. It's use in this context devalues it's true meaning and the terror of the actual crime. If you know anyone who has been a victim, ask them. I guarantee that they will tell you that the horror of it in no way compares with email abuse or harassment. Marcel was not a particular friend (or enemy for that matter) of mine although he sent a few offlists. His stuff was long and life is short, so I mostly deleted him. His behaviour was despicable and I feel guilt for not condemning him. Debra was supported by better people than me. . Finally, the use of the word "Dear" is common in written communication between strangers and I used it on that occasion to convey courtesy to you, given the starkness of my request. Feel free to reply to me offlist if you wish. I would extend the hand of friendship to you any time. Philip NP Lemon Jelly - KY - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 1:50 PM Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #406 > philip, > 1. i'm not your dear. > 2. it is self centered to view this list from the first person singular. i > sent you nothing. my thoughts were shared in support of those who have been > bullied by marcel. i don't know you and i certainly did not send YOU > anything. it is very possible philip, that your expericence alone is not the > only experience. learn to look away. learn to let others share their > experiences. > 3. you did send me something...you copied me directly. please do not ever > send me anything direct again. > pat > > - ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > > > > 1. marcel is a cyber rapist. > > > > Dear Pat, > > > > Please do not send me any more of this ugly nonsense. > > > > thanks, > > Philip ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 18:28:08 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Take a look at my online photos! In a message dated 16/09/01 02:01:37 GMT Daylight Time, rosemjoy@aol.com writes: << I created an album of some photos I took today at Washington Rock State Park in Greenbrook, NJ. >> Rose, I have to confess that I almost deleted your post unread, because when I saw the subject and before I saw it was from you, I thought it was one of those, ahem, saucy junk mail invitations to partake of licentious material on the net, if you get my drift :-) Blushing slightly, Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 18:32:00 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: M. Rouge - NJC In a message dated 16/09/01 20:26:27 GMT Daylight Time, CarltonCT writes: << Most of what you say about Moulin Rouge is true, but I loved it anyway precisely because it is all the things you criticized. This is a film that Ken Russell would have made if he had digital technology. >> Don't even say that, Clark - Ken is still with us, we don't want people putting ideas into his head!! << The movie was a visual triumph and it has to be accepted that it was made with tongue very firmly in cheek.>> Good on you sport - at least people have now seen two opposing views, and will just have to pick the bones out of them as best they can! << Vive la difference! >> Quite so. Cheers, Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 15:07:14 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC 1 answer to bigotry I know I should not respond to this. I know I should try not to react and be baited. I know that some people here will in the future throw digs at me for this. I am shaking all over. This remark from a man of God is just as hateful as Falwell's remarks. Compaing "conservatives" to Bin Laden. This is vile. Kakki > Apparently, Osama bin Laden does. His deity also is petty, sadistic, > violent and generally conservative in his politics. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 18:38:04 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Jonifest, 2001 and 1/2(njc) > Thanks to Victor for being a great guest and filling our house with music and > his gentle spirit. it was a nice way to wind down the week. > > Love & Peace to you all from sunny SC, > Bob > Thank you to you Bob, for being such a fabulous host (and not sending me to motel 6 in the middle of the night like last time in Greenville... :~} ) Love and sunshine to all, Victor, back from a beautiful day at the lake Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson > NP: Tom Waits, "In Between Love" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 18:40:01 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Jonifest, 2001 and 1/2(njc) > Wish I could have been there! It's hard only getting to hear Victor in > person perhaps once a year! I'm ready to come to California in a heartbeat. I'd even take a train! Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson > Bob, ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 15:47:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Tyler Hewitt Subject: More Falwell NJC Thanks to those who wrote to tell me they signed the petition to renounce Falwell. to be honest, I don't know if the petitions on that site get sent to anyone or not, but it does make me feel a little better to proclaim publcly that I do not support this sort of narrow minded intolerant bigotry. About the prayer hotline-what's the number? I'll play that game! I do think that if you call a toll-free number that the organization you're calling gets charged. Think of all the money that could be pulled away from evil uses! "Today, I'm calling on Jerry Falwell to repent -- and to repudiate his own cruel and untrue attack on the gay community." A friend called their prayer hotline asking them to pray for Jerry so that he would stop spreading the word of of Satan! The phone lady sputtered & didn't know how to handle the request. She (my friend) said everytime someone calls their prayer line it costs them money... ******************************************** __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 00:01:52 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC 1 answer to bigotry I am sorry you are upset Kakki. I don't think Vince meant it the way you took it and I am certain he was not baiting anyone. Bin Laden in addition to his belief in terrorism, also follows generally conservative beliefs as regards freedoms, womens rights, gay people etc. These are views commonly held by conservatives, are the views we here conservatives give out all the time. This is not the same thing as comparing Bin laden's terrorist tactics with conservatives. having said that, there are rabid conservatives who bomb abortion clinics, who want gay people put to death, who want women stripped of their rights and be just baby producers. Those on the far left are not much different! Kakki wrote: > I know I should not respond to this. I know I should try not to react and > be baited. I know that some people here will in the future throw digs at me > for this. I am shaking all over. This remark from a man of God is just as > hateful as Falwell's remarks. Compaing "conservatives" to Bin Laden. This > is vile. Kakki > > > Apparently, Osama bin Laden does. His deity also is petty, sadistic, > > violent and generally conservative in his politics. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 23:38:52 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: M. Rouge - NJC I guess I'll have to wait for the DVD release next year to make up my own mind, but the video for Come What May - sung by McGregor and Kidman - - looks impressive, and despite the oddly-pitched vocals, I quite like the song. Jason. PS. On a wider level, I think Pat summed things up succinctly when he said "it's been a fucking bad week". Words fail me for what's happened, but I've read the extremely heartfelt and moving posts that have flooded in since last Tuesday morning. And Vince's prayer was simply beautiful. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 19:08:13 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Angel-clarification (njc) > yesterday, victor's "angel in manhattan"... > today, your auden selection... Just to clarify, "Angel in Manhattan", was written by Boston singer/songwriter, Ellis Paul. Victor NP:Indigo Girls "The Girl With the Weight of the World in Her Hands" Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 00:31:07 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC 1 answer to bigotry > I'm sorry but he should not even be > discussed in any context having to do with any political concepts held by > people in the U.S. I understand how upset you are. however, whether we like it or not, some of your fellow countrymen, and mine, hold very similar views to him. A frigthening number do. The KKK, the IRA, UDA(or whatever the Protestant equivalent is called), the Militias, McVeigh, The BNP and National Front(here), the ALF(animal liberation front) and countless other groups, There is the relgious right as well and they hold very similar views. Bin Laden IS a human being, one who has allowed hatred to take him over. There are many people like him, now and have always been. Hitler. Stalin. Lenin. Mao Tse Tung. Hussein. And all of them rose to power because good people sat back and did nothing. What happened last week was no doubt the worst thing to happen in the history of America, but not in the history of the world. Just in the last ten years there have been dreadful atrocities, far many more people killed, more buildings destroyed. In Europe alone far worse has happened. The only difference being is that this time it happened in America. for that I am truly sad. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 19:50:10 -0400 From: "marianne marianne" Subject: [none] Correction: Ghandi wrote, "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind>" Martin Luther King, Jr. quoted him, I'm told. Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 20:41:42 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: M. Rouge - NJC : > In a message dated 16/09/01 20:26:27 GMT Daylight Time, CarltonCT writes: > > << Most of what you say about Moulin Rouge is true, but I loved it anyway > precisely because it is all the things you criticized. This is a film that > Ken Russell would have made if he had digital technology. >> AzeemAK@aol.com wrote > > > Don't even say that, Clark - Ken is still with us, we don't want people > putting ideas into his head!! > Azeem, you are so right - Ken Russell made such excessive films, I couldn't bear to watch any Ken Russell film after Women in Love, although I would love to see that one again - but I hope Ken Russell is happily retired and stays that way! (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 20:54:03 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: NJC answer to bigotry and Kakki Kakki wrote: > I know I should not respond to this. I know I should try not to react and > be baited. I know that some people here will in the future throw digs at me > for this. I am shaking all over. This remark from a man of God is just as > hateful as Falwell's remarks. Compaing "conservatives" to Bin Laden. This > is vile. Kakki > > > Apparently, Osama bin Laden does. His deity also is petty, sadistic, > > violent and generally conservative in his politics. Kakki - I was stunned when I read this, I ahd no idea what you were referring to, and read through everything that I had written and then read through the column which I forwarded which denounced Falwell. Kakki, I had not seen that line, at least to comprehend it, and as I re-read that column, I certainly don't think meant it was any allusion at all to American politics at that point in the column, it was a slam at bin Laden. The wording may have been poor though and open to misunderstanding and as I was not author, I cannot explain that. But I cannot accept that the author is vile, he may have very poorly spoken, but he was comparing hate (Falwell) to hate, and as we are all stressed in the moment, this was poorly worded as I look back at it. I certainly am in great pain for having you think those words were directed against you. Your response to the Falwell comments were instant and magnificent and had I any inkling that these words would have caused you pain I never would have posted them, My only excuse was that in getting ready for the community service tonight, my fourth public service since Tuesday grappling with these horrors and as overwhelmed as I have been with the pain of those who suffered, and as worried about my son the Marine as I am, I just simply missed that sentence and missed how it could have been interpreted. I don't say that as an excuse, only as explanation. Kakki, there has been so much pain, I was so honored by your comments all week, I failed to see how this could read, and I am profoundly sorry. Profoundly sorry. Had I been cognizant of that line and its implications I sure as hell would have deleted it, Kakki. Please, please, my friend, feel no more pain over this, Please Kakki. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 20:00:04 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: crying njc Catherine, Thanks so much for sharing this song. I have a friend whose response to everything is, "It could be worse." It's so nice when someone gives you permission to be sad and is sad along with you. This reminds me of a book I once read. I'm not a conventionally religious person but I liked this thought: The author talked about people telling you that it's "God's will" when something horrible happens. This is just not comforting and leaves us more confused than before. He went on to say that maybe things just don't make sense and that God is grieving along with us. Catherine wrote: You who were there need to talk about it. We who weren't there but who are frightened just the same, need to hear about it. It's part of the healing process and it's going to be a long process. In my mind, I'm hearing a song sung by Holly Cole, but I'm not sure who wrote it. The words go like this: Cry if you want to I won't tell you not to I won't try to cheer you up I'll just be here if you want me It's no use in keeping a stiff upper lip You can weep, you can sleep, you can loosen your grip You can frown, you can drown, or go down with the ship You can cry if you want to Don't ever apologize venting your pain It's something to me you don't need to explain I don't need to know why, I don't think it's insane You can cry if you want to The windows are closed,the neighbours aren't home If it's better with me than to do it alone I'll draw all the curtains and unplug the phone You can cry if you want to You can stare at the ceiling and tear at your hair Swallow your feelings and stagger and swear You can show things and throw things and I wouldn't care You can cry if you want to I won't make fun of you, I won't tell anyone And I won't analyze what you do or you should have done I won't advise you to go and have fun You can cry if you want to Well, it's empty and ugly and terribly sad I can't feel what you feel, but I know it feels bad I know that it's real and it makes you so mad You could cry Cry if you want to, I won't tell you not to I won't try to cheer you up I'll just be here if you want me to be near you. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #412 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?