From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #408 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, September 15 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 408 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Marcel (NJC) [Don Rowe ] The Taliban says... (njc) [Brian Gross ] Re: The Taliban says... (njc) [colin ] Subject: Re: Nostradamus on Joni? (njc) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: NJC RE: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) ["Leslie Ross" ] Re: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) [Ti] Priest died accompanying firemen (njc) ["shane mattison" ] Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Lesbians NJC [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: some good news (njc) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) ["M] Re: some good news (njc) [AzeemAK@aol.com] peoples parties (sjc) ["shane mattison" ] Joni says hi [nuriel@wowmail.com] chasing after the wind (njc) ["shane mattison" ] Joni's smoking (live version) [nuriel@wowmail.com] Sorry folks - here's the smoke [nuriel@wowmail.com] Re: To Michael Paz and everyone else too (NJC) ["Stephen Epstein" ] Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) [Catherine McKay ] Re: some good news (njc) ["hell" ] Re: To Michael Paz and everyone else too (NJC) ["hell" ] NJC thoughts [Vince Lavieri ] RE: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) [Ca] Re: NJC RE: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Re: On Silence NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) [Ca] The drone of planes at night never used to frighten me njc [Catherine McK] new york on september 14th, wtc content (but njc) ["patrick leader" ] RE: peoples parties (sjc) ["Kate Bennett" ] now for healing (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 13:35:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Marcel (NJC) I have never met Marcel Deste in person, as some of you have. I have largely chosen not to participate in any & all political discussions/debates in which he became involved, as many of us have, though some have not. So I'll stick to what I do know. I have had extensive private discussions with Marcel via e-mail. These concerned my interest & creativity as a musician & lyricist. I have found Marcel an unflinching, yet compassionate & deeply sensitive critic. He's told me things I didn't wish to hear, and explained them in ways that made me understand that they were, nonetheless, things I NEEDED to hear. Working with him this way has given me a deep and abiding respect for him. I number him among my friends ... and will continue to do so. And lest you think me pandering, he's also taken several jumps into the proverbial lake at my request. Which is to say ours was a level playing field, and here's why ... We agreed to a set of rules, not unlike those that govern the jmdl. They were as simple, straightforward and even-handed. Marcel always played by them ... and so did I. That he would do so in our discourse, and not so here, strikes me as a singular inconsistency. And one that recent events do little to convincingly explain. As Marcel has been prevented from defending himself, I shall stand up a bit for him -- knowing full well the risks inherent in taking that position. Some may not like what he had to say. Others may take offense at the way in which he chose to say it. But that he has now been singled out for exclusion from this list strikes me as the worst sort of prejudicial censorship. Others have said equally unlikable things ... and have said them in similarly offensive ways (privately & publicly) ... and yet they are allowed continued participation. I hope the list administrator will reconsider, but fear he will not. As for myself. I'll stay. In the hopes that I may still consider others on this list my friends, even after this post. To those and others ... please respond to me privately, should you feel the need. I have no desire for this to become another publicly prolonged trench war. I just felt I had to say something in Marcel's behalf (though I know I'd probably get a helluva tonuge-lashing from him for doing so). Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:37:48 -0400 From: Brian Gross Subject: The Taliban says... (njc) Need a boost in your pissed-off level? http://my.aol.com/news/news_story.psp?type=1&cat=0600&id=0109141556473764 G-d Bless America brei - -- After twenty-three years you'd think I could find A way to let you know somehow That I want to see your smiling face Forty-five years from now. --Stan Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:54:40 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: The Taliban says... (njc) Falwell/Robertson/Taleban-bedfellows. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 13:34:37 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Re: Nostradamus on Joni? (njc) Bob Murphy thank you so much for your wonderful sense of humor... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:10:31 -0400 From: Mags Subject: Re: On Silence NJC and sometimes good people do nothing because there is already too much pain in their personal life to take on more. Please Colin. Dont think I dont care. Mags. colin wrote: > With reference to those who choose to remain silent when obivou abuse is > happening, where ever that may be. > > 'evil flourishes because good people do nothing' - -- And this loving is a drawing close, a tuning in, an opening. Until one perfect moment; but how can it be expressed? A receiving, an enfolding as I cradle you in my arms. Within my heart, within my soul, You are my true love. --Lui Collins - --- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:14:23 +0000 From: "Leslie Ross" Subject: Re: NJC RE: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) ......I am preachin' love! I am! >From: Don Rowe >Reply-To: Don Rowe >To: SCJoniGuy@aol.com, joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: NJC RE: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it >breeds (NJC) >Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:47:56 -0700 (PDT) > >--- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > > Bob, who thinks that if Jesus were walking around > > today he'd spend lots of time pulling the plugs on > > self-righteous assholes like Falwell & Robertson > >An he's immaculately ... tax free ... sa-ave me > >Don Rowe > >===== >Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe > >__________________________________________________ >Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? >Donate cash, emergency relief information >http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:31:31 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Re: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) Kakki & Lori, thank you for making me laugh out loud...i have been crying all morning having watched the service on tv which was just the trigger i needed to have a good sob... BTW, those idiots in the Post article know nothing of god.... Kakki : Rotten pieces of shit they are. Lori: LOL, Kakki ... I know you're dead serious, but I'm so not used to you reacting this way! Kakki: I try to save it up for when it really matters ;-) ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:31:28 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: The service on tv this morning.... Does anyone remember the prayer that was read at the end of the service? Just before they sang Battle Hymn of the Republic & after Bush spoke? To these ears, it was the most poignant part & such a relief to hear that they had chosen that one to conclude with...but my mind cannot recall it now.... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 18:39:39 EDT From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Re: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) Sigh. This is incredibly depressing. It is just as bad as an email I saw that blamed the US government for causing these tragedies because our leaders wanted an excuse to wage war. I am a government employee and, while I accept that the government has many flaws, it is not made up of evil individuals who would kill thousands of their own people. It seems that with a tragedy, everyone starts looking around for someone to blame. With rape victims the logic is very similar 'she must have asked for it'. It's as though we can't accept that evil exists in our world, or that terrible events occur that are beyond our control. We must have done *something* to provoke it. Sigh. Mary ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:54:08 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: Priest died accompanying firemen (njc) i am moved by a single priest who went in the WTC with the firemen before the buildings collapsed on them, and not just because he's a priest, but because he's a human being who gave his life for others, like the firemen did: <> thankyou, father mychal... shane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 18:54:28 -0400 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) I haven't read my entire JMDL inbox today, so this may already be well covered... but, particularly in light of the Robinson/Falwell story, it's interesting to be aware that the pilot who served as First Officer on the flight that crashed into the Pentagon was a proud openly gay man. Read more in The Washington Blade: http://www.washblade.com/ Cheerz, Janet and Deanna Ivy the Wonderkitty, both of them now observing their pre-twilight rituals (use your imagination, ok?) - -------------- You've got to shake your fists at lightning now You've got to roar like forest fire You've got to spread your light like blazes All across the sky Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:16:55 +0100 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: Atlanta was a possible target also (NJC) Fox News just said that according to persons close to the hijackers, interviewed by the FBI, had said that Atlanta was another target. My parents phoned me on Tuesday to say that they had left New York on Monday, and were safely away from it all in... Atlanta. Simply too scary for words. - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:58:35 +0100 From: colin Subject: Lesbians NJC According to a mockumentary film I have just seen, Best In Show, you girls ahev you own magazine now! AMERICAN BITCH for the lesbian pure bred dog owner!(I think they meant the women were lesbians not the dogs.) - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:44:34 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) Reading your mail, I could only think of one thing: I am > perfectly willing to deal with weeks or even months of petty bickering, > little feuds and pissy write-first-think-later mails for ONE post like > yours. It shines. > > So do you. > > The warmest of kisses and a big, big Dutch hug. > > John Just wanted to add my voice to the thank yous to Kay for this incredibly moving post. Such wise words, Kay. We all needed to read them. I'm so thankful you were able to share them with us. Love to all, Mark E ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:08:43 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Lesbians NJC In a message dated 15/09/01 00:53:41 GMT Daylight Time, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: << According to a mockumentary film I have just seen, Best In Show, you girls ahev you own magazine now! AMERICAN BITCH for the lesbian pure bred dog owner!(I think they meant the women were lesbians not the dogs.) >> Ha ha! I thought that film was absolutely priceless, Colin. About time you saw it :-) Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 18:19:06 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: some good news (njc) > It is a week of tragedy and a week of miracles. > > I met with the surgeon this morning. According to the latest CT scan, the > growth they've been seeing on previous scans has disappeared! It means that > the drug I've been taking could finally be working to shrink and even get > rid of the tumor. Next, they'll be doing an MRI to get another view, just to > be sure. Maybe not quite a miracle, but I'll take it! > > I can't say it enough. Thank you for all your thoughts and prayers. We're > not done, but this is one battle at least we're winning. > > lots (and lots) of love > Anne Yippee!! This is the best news I've seen yet! You go, Anne! You can beat it! Love, Mark E ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 18:39:47 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) This is just as evil as the minds of the terrorists who perpetrated the horrors on Tuesday. If there is a devil, Fallwell & Robertson are every bit as much his lieutenants as Bin Ladin. Mark E. > Rotten pieces of shit they are. > > > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28620-2001Sep14.html > > > > Lori > > in MD > > ~ > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? > > Donate cash, emergency relief information > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 22:06:06 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: some good news (njc) In a message dated 15/09/01 02:20:38 GMT Daylight Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes (well, Anne did earlier...): << > I met with the surgeon this morning. According to the latest CT scan, the > growth they've been seeing on previous scans has disappeared! It means that > the drug I've been taking could finally be working to shrink and even get > rid of the tumor. >> <> Me too, Anne! I'm delighted to hear that hopeful news. Sending good vibes your way, Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:02:25 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: peoples parties (sjc) oh... i've had subscriber shiftings, from 'heavy volume' to mistaken 'joni only' (for me that is), to now i hope 'joni digest...' i could lurk...(or maybe i couldn't!) what a broad, broad panoply of humanity here...feelings... the difficulty of written emails only, in sensing where someone is coming from... kay, i was truly moved by your post and i have saved it...it will not be forgotten... (can we share it with others?) and marian, have you played so much joni that i imagine you being like her for some reason...a creative mother for us? and i haven't been round long enough to understand the rift, but sense its mendable...and i extend my own olive branch to people... forgive me when i come across too strongly... a defensive beginning did i have, sue cameron? i'd like to know you better and appreciate you ... and randy remote, i miss hearing from you... did i joke innappropriately and hurt your feelings? i realised later, this could have been an unintended effect of my poor taste humour... and catherine, did i get testy? lately we've enjoyed one another's posts! did i get a little too crusading myself with you chris? or colin? if the answer to these questions is yes in your eyes, then i am sorry... i didn't mean to hurt you i'm sorry that i made you cry i didn't want to hurt you i'm just a jealous guy... (john lennon) or peter saying to his Master, when he was called to see Matthew with new eyes, "Lord, I'm just a stupid....man..." Janene, i'm so sorry to hear of your cousin... one of my best friends is a calgary firefighter, who two weeks ago oversaw the lake search for a drowned boy in a storm, and who last year had to deal with dead bodies from a cyclone... and ashara, your friend' s son-in-law, how can i ever know what happened compared to those who lost loved ones or went through it... can i pontificate like a stanford polisci major? i trow not! and patrick leader, your moving personal experience...so well written, so moving... and you're most welcome sherelle and kakki if something i said was worthwhile to you... and deb shea, i'm so thankful you're safe...i was moved by what you said of your close experience... you sound like someone like a flower who no one should upset ...i hope you feel better real soon... and sharon, your journalist quote is good and true... and i know america herself is unbelievably strong ... and victor, your "angel in manhattan" was of such quality, such prescience as to be a guiding light for the hour... and you new jmdlers! so many new voices...welcome... call us to our higher and better selves! and so we are, perhaps, called to listen before we speak... behind the anonymity of computers we can sail off words far too fast...are we listening? and there are those others of you, so many, i haven't mentioned...i need to listen to you more... Bob...we have more than a little in common! "hejira" is my all time favourite joni song too... i admit it, but you were first... yes, forgive me those of you i should listen to more deeply, and respond more humanly... i wish i had seen you all at jonifest, including les, through whom this wonderful association all started...you all have so much to teach me... for benedict and the monastic tradition, listening is the very sine qua non of real spirituality, and this is shared with many buddhist monks, and sufi mystics... obviously there is a way for us beyond the mere talkers like robertson and falwell... did you all see the national service today? i was moved so much...to tears... good old billy, we'll miss him when he departs... and they sang Battle Hymn of the Republic for a stirring finale... and a few mentioned our own faults....if we could only start with ourselves , eh? and perhaps we might all pray for marcel...shall we all say a prayer for him? (and i do not excuse wrong actions here)...literally, this weekend...and mean it? ...exile is tough...i've known it...all of a sudden you're on alcatraz! (sounds like a joni line!) ...(maybe he'll change? ...though i believe you did right les...) there was a man kicked out by paul the apostle...then, after his heartbreak and change he could then be welcomed ...(who knows? at least we could say "Peace go with you, from us"... ...this would be like sweetgrass for us, or the peacepipe ceremony...) and michael, may morning come to morgantown real quick so we may hear from you again... and kate, thankyou for your maturity and wise words of counsel... and catherine udall turley we need yours too, and although i know you're job searching, you have poise...and we need it... can't you just hear joni saying, at the isle of wight, or any innumerable places (circa 1968-71 or thereabouts.)...please my friends, let's love one another... let's start right here, right now... loves' real...peace is real, just believe it in your heart and you'll find it... froggie plops into the pond... Plop! shane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 22:55:02 -0400 From: nuriel@wowmail.com Subject: Joni says hi Hello! nuriel@wowmail.com has just sent you a beatgreets.com card! To view your greeting, simply click on this pickup window link: http://www.beatgreets.com/view.pd?i=48875473&m=2018&rr=y&source=bg999 If your e-mail doesn't recognize the above address as a link, simply copy and paste it in your browser address window. If you need further help, visit our Help pages at http://egreetings.custhelp.com/. Your Friends at beatgreets.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:07:56 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: chasing after the wind (njc) oh, kay, after your so wonderful post, i saw my posted 'thought for the day' and i thought they had so much in common: And I saw that all labor and all achievement spring from man's envy of his neighbor. This too is meaningless, a chasing after the wind. - Ecclesiastes 4:4 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 23:07:15 -0400 From: nuriel@wowmail.com Subject: Joni's smoking (live version) Hello! nuriel@wowmail.com has just sent you a beatgreets.com card! To view your greeting, simply click on this pickup window link: http://www.beatgreets.com/view.pd?i=48875225&m=2018&rr=y&source=bg999 If your e-mail doesn't recognize the above address as a link, simply copy and paste it in your browser address window. If you need further help, visit our Help pages at http://egreetings.custhelp.com/. Your Friends at beatgreets.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 23:11:00 -0400 From: nuriel@wowmail.com Subject: Sorry folks - here's the smoke Hello! nuriel@wowmail.com has just sent you a beatgreets.com card! To view your greeting, simply click on this pickup window link: http://www.beatgreets.com/view.pd?i=48878683&m=2018&rr=y&source=bg999 If your e-mail doesn't recognize the above address as a link, simply copy and paste it in your browser address window. If you need further help, visit our Help pages at http://egreetings.custhelp.com/. Your Friends at beatgreets.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 23:38:10 -0400 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Re: To Michael Paz and everyone else too (NJC) Michael, To start, a humorous touch- I'm straight! This post might be a bit glowing, and I certainly don't want you to get the wrong idea ;-) I have been a JMDLer for over a year now, and a big part of the reason that I am still here, is the joy of life that each and every one of your posts contains! You live life to the fullest, and I so admire and respect that. Hey, you sent me my first non-commercial JM cd's- AS well as a Joan Armatrading live boot- just in exchange for my sending you my tape of Dave Matthews on 60 minutes!! Wally K was here visiting at the time, and he will concur that I was so touched by this. You have a huge heart and soul, and offer so much to this list. I just met you less than 2 weeks ago, and tho we didn't spend as much time as I would have liked, I know you are my Brother. I don't need to mention all that you contributed to Jonifest 2001, but you, as always, went beyond the call of duty, my friend. This family of ours is reeling soooo, this week. Beyond normal comprehension. Our world and lives may never be the same again. And for that reason alone, we need someone like you here among us. So, if you need a break, I fully understand and respect that, but I DO wish you might reconsider. With love and respect, your brother Stephen in Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 23:52:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: St Pauls We had three minutes' silence today too. I'm not sure if that was just Toronto, or the province of Ontario, or the whole country. It was at 12:20 p.m. EST - i don't know why they came up with that time. I haven't been reading the newspapers or watching TV at all since this happened. I shut the door to my office and closed my eyes and concentrated on healing. - --- colin wrote: > Right now there is a Service of Rememberance going > on in St Paul's > Cathedral. > There was a countrywide 3 mins silence at 11am. > > ROI have closed all there shops, schools and > business for the whole day. > > The 3 mins silence was Europe wide. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 23:54:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) - --- Kammass@aol.com wrote: > kay, > thank you so much for your wonderful post(s). your > thoughts and words have > really made me think. thank you. i hope i will > continue and integrate these > very positive, important ideas into my everyday > life, where it, too, is > needed. Me too. The tears really started flowing when I read that. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 16:04:27 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: some good news (njc) Anne wrote: > It is a week of tragedy and a week of miracles. > > I met with the surgeon this morning. According to the latest CT scan, the > growth they've been seeing on previous scans has disappeared! It means that > the drug I've been taking could finally be working to shrink and even get > rid of the tumor. Next, they'll be doing an MRI to get another view, just to > be sure. Maybe not quite a miracle, but I'll take it! > > I can't say it enough. Thank you for all your thoughts and prayers. We're > not done, but this is one battle at least we're winning. Anne, this is the best news I've heard all week - words aren't enough to tell you how happy this makes me. Still thinking of you and sending you (and everyone else) a thousand million healing thoughts. lots of love Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 15:59:46 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: To Michael Paz and everyone else too (NJC) Stephen wrote: > You have a huge heart and soul, and offer so much to this list. I just met > you less than 2 weeks ago, and tho we didn't spend as much time as I would > have liked, I know you are my Brother. I don't need to mention all that > you contributed to Jonifest 2001, but you, as always, went beyond the call > of duty, my friend. > > This family of ours is reeling soooo, this week. Beyond normal > comprehension. Our world and lives may never be the same again. And for > that reason alone, we need someone like you here among us. > > So, if you need a break, I fully understand and respect that, but I DO wish > you might reconsider. Which says exactly what I've been trying to find time and words to say, amidst trying to get my life here back to some semblance of normality. Michael, I don't want you to leave, but if you need to take some time, I understand. Just don't stay away too long, you'll be missed. with love Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:07:59 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC thoughts I am struck silent by all that has been these past days and my fears of what is to come. I am a pacifist, not a popular thing to be these days. My wayward son and father of my grandson Gage, my son Jeremy with whom I have long been estranged, is a Marine. Harry Fosdick wrote the words to a hymn "God of Grace and God of Glory." It is a bit Christocentric and many here are not Christians and that is ok, I would never believe that the way that I know God is the only way to know God. So if you read though the Christ/church language and put it in a form that works for you in knowing God, or whatever the experience of something greater than us is for you, I share this with you. (Please note that the phrase that refers to the ways of Christ always meant to me the last command that Jesus gave before the crucifixion was "put away your sword." (the Rev) Vince God of grace and God of glory, On Thy people pour Thy power... Crown Thine ancient churchs story, Bring her bud to glorious flower. Grant us wisdom, grant us courage, For the facing of this hour, For the facing of this hour. Lo! the hosts of evil round us, Scorn Thy Christ, assail His ways. From the fears that long have bound us, Free our hearts to faith and praise. Grant us wisdom, grant us courage, For the living of these days, For the living of these days. Cure Thy childrenms warring madness, Bend our pride to Thy control. Shame our wanton selfish gladness, Rich in things and poor in soul. Grant us wisdom, grant us courage, Lest we miss Thy kingdomms goal, Lest we miss Thy kingdomms goal. Save us from weak resignation, To the evils we deplore. Let the search for Thy salvation, Be our glory evermore. Grant us wisdom, grant us courage, Serving Thee Whom we adore, Serving Thee Whom we adore. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:11:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) Why do they give this dickhead the opportunity to spread this utter crap around? The man is psychotic. He knows nothing about God. - --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > these murderous imbeciles challenge my ability to > forgive. next thing > they'll be sacrificing aclu supporters at the altar > of their profitably > private and hateful god. > w > > > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28620-2001Sep14.html > > > > Lori > > in MD Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:12:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC RE: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) What's the point? They're already as ugly as it's possible to be. - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > < forgive. >> > > Well put, Wally! I can easily forgive them, then > i'll whup 'em with an ugly stick! :~D > > Bob > > NP: Lucinda Williams, "Lonely Girls" (live) Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 22:24:15 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: every night (njc) after days of my own little bit of pain, finally a song came...no music has been with me 'til now... i want to share the music (why this one? and sorry, joni!)that came to me: Every Night by Paul McCartney Every Night I Just Wanna Go Out, Get Out Of My Head Every Day I Don't Want To Get Up, Get Out Of My Bed Every Night I Want To Play Out And Every Day I Want To Do ooh ooh oh oh But Tonight I Just Want To Stay In And Be With You, And Be With You. ooh ............. ooh .............. Believe Me Mama Every Day I Lean On A Lamp Post, I'm Wasting My Time Every Day I Lay On A Pillow, I'm Resting My Mind Every Morning Brings A New Day Every Night That Day Is Through ooh ooh oh oh But Tonight I Just Want To Stay In And Be With You, And Be With You. ooh ............. ooh .............. Believe Me Mama ooh ............. ooh .............. shane (let it be me, not "but not for me") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:18:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: On Silence NJC Well said, Mags. Everyone has their own way of dealing with things, and no one should even try to tell others how they *should* react. Silence does not imply consent. - --- Mags wrote: > and sometimes good people do nothing because there > is already too much pain > in their personal life to take on more. Please > Colin. Dont think I dont care. > > Mags. > > colin wrote: > > > With reference to those who choose to remain > silent when obivou abuse is > > happening, where ever that may be. > > > > 'evil flourishes because good people do nothing' > > -- > And this loving is a drawing close, > a tuning in, an opening. > Until one perfect moment; > but how can it be expressed? > A receiving, an enfolding > as I cradle you in my arms. > Within my heart, within my soul, > You are my true love. > > --Lui Collins > > --- > > _~O > / /\_, > ___/\ > /_ Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:20:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) - --- TimandMaryPowers@aol.com wrote: > Sigh. This is incredibly depressing. It is just as > bad as an email I saw > that blamed the US government for causing these > tragedies because our leaders > wanted an excuse to wage war. I am a government > employee and, while I accept > that the government has many flaws, it is not made > up of evil individuals who > would kill thousands of their own people. It seems > that with a tragedy, > everyone starts looking around for someone to blame. Amazingly sad, isn't it? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:43:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: The drone of planes at night never used to frighten me njc Reading the posts of people in NYC is more poignant, touching and personal to me than anything I could read in the papers (but I've been avoiding them). Not just in New York, but elsewhere. I note a lot of people mentioning how a noise that used to be just a noise frightens them - a car backfiring, a plane or helicopter flying by. Same here. Last night one of my cats was up on top of the desk and she knocked a book off and it smashed to the floor. It scared the crap out of me. Imagine living with that all the time. I'd rather not. When I got home from work after picking my son up from the after-school program, when we came to the door, our dog barked. We haven't had this dog very long and for the first three weeks or so, I didn't think she *could* bark. It was just one "arf!" but my daugher, who was in the house, nearly jumped out of her skin. I feel like a kid afraid of what might be hiding in the closet at night. Wondering how long it takes, if ever, before a noise is just a noise again. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 01:08:53 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: new york on september 14th, wtc content (but njc) i woke up today to clock radio news, that said there had been attempted but foiled hijackings yesterday and tuesday (in addition to the successful ones) from jfk airport. went to look out the window at the rain; then a low-flying airplane (too low?) flew by, and a distant siren sounded. i will never feel safe again. today, around 4 pm, my boss held a company meeting to assess the week. this is an extraordinary man, who, before we came back to work yesterday, put two white lilies in water at each of our desks. at the meeting today, he said 'i believe, patrick, that you've been the most affected by this.' how perceptive. how true. i am just devastated. every day since this happened, i've ridden the same train into manhattan and when it comes out of the tunnel onto the bridge, i see the faces of the other passengers tense up. i get shaky. we look out the window of the train each morning, at the wound in the sky where the wtc used to stand. it smoked for 3 days, until this morning's rain brought down the dust a bit. i see each person on today's train, like me, not wanting to look. not being able to resist. have you heard about the 'missing' flyers posted all over new york city? in the window of every copy shop, near police and fire stations, and in many downtown neighborhoods on every signpost. it is so heartbreaking. i think these people who are looking for their loved ones are checking all the hospitals and know that the search is hopeless. but they are putting up these flyers, everywhere, knowing that we all want to know who has been lost. and we look again and again at the faces of these victims, so we will not forget. the mayor has asked that folks with missing person reports bring in some stray hair from a hairbrush of the person, or a toenail, or anything else that will provide a dna sample that might match a body part that has been found. it's a symbol of how hopeless and painful this search for bodies is... we've also put up lots of pictures of the twin towers, both in their glory and in the last minutes. they were never that pretty, but they were ours, god dammit. tonight i met my sister for the candlelight vigil at union square in new york, a large public park that has become a bit of a memorial. i started to cry blocks away, when i saw the mass of humanity. it was wall to wall, so dense. mostly silence or quiet communing with your friends. hymns, quietly, a few attempts at singing the national anthem and 'god bless america', many flags. thousands of candles, every couple of minutes, we'd hold them up high, light the night sky up a bit more. after a while we walked back toward the east village on 14th street, candles still lit, we stopped at the firehouse near third ave. again, tons of candles and flowers, the garage door was open and a couple of the firemen were talking with visitors. but also photocopied pictures of the firemen lost from that station. posters of support, done up on computer and printed out. one had a picture of the towers burning on one side, a policeman and a fireman standing on the other side. the caption: "the true twin towers". we walked down avenue a by a spanish speaking catholic congregation in procession, singing a hymn. candles on sills, on sidewalks, at the entrance to tompkins square park. we stopped in a cafe, watched cnn for awhile, got a sense that the world is grieving too, then split for the evening. back in brooklyn, there are candles and flags all along fifth avenue and all over. i've put my candle in my window. patrick np - silence ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 01:26:39 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: some good news (njc) such happy news, anne! and so needed now... bless you patrick >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Anne >Sandstrom >Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 12:48 PM >To: 'joni@smoe.org' >Subject: some good news (njc) > > >It is a week of tragedy and a week of miracles. > >I met with the surgeon this morning. According to the latest CT scan, the >growth they've been seeing on previous scans has disappeared! It means that >the drug I've been taking could finally be working to shrink and even get >rid of the tumor. Next, they'll be doing an MRI to get another >view, just to >be sure. Maybe not quite a miracle, but I'll take it! > >I can't say it enough. Thank you for all your thoughts and prayers. We're >not done, but this is one battle at least we're winning. > >lots (and lots) of love >Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 22:09:05 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: peoples parties (sjc) shane wrote " and perhaps we might all pray for marcel...shall we all say a prayer for him? (and i do not excuse wrong actions here)...literally, this weekend...and mean it?" yes, that is a wonderful idea...i will join you in doing just that ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** -----Original Message----- From: shane mattison [mailto:cactussong@home.com] Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 8:02 PM To: joni@smoe.org; Janene@cmji.com; AsharaJM@aol.com; patrick116@earthlink.net; Kakki; RobSher50@aol.com; M.Russell@iaea.org; dsk11@bellatlantic.net; katfud@earthlink.net; waytoblu@mindspring.com; Kate Bennett; Catherine Udall Turley; Sue Cameron Cc: cactussong@home.com Subject: peoples parties (sjc) oh... i've had subscriber shiftings, from 'heavy volume' to mistaken 'joni only' (for me that is), to now i hope 'joni digest...' i could lurk...(or maybe i couldn't!) what a broad, broad panoply of humanity here...feelings... the difficulty of written emails only, in sensing where someone is coming from... kay, i was truly moved by your post and i have saved it...it will not be forgotten... (can we share it with others?) and marian, have you played so much joni that i imagine you being like her for some reason...a creative mother for us? and i haven't been round long enough to understand the rift, but sense its mendable...and i extend my own olive branch to people... forgive me when i come across too strongly... a defensive beginning did i have, sue cameron? i'd like to know you better and appreciate you ... and randy remote, i miss hearing from you... did i joke innappropriately and hurt your feelings? i realised later, this could have been an unintended effect of my poor taste humour... and catherine, did i get testy? lately we've enjoyed one another's posts! did i get a little too crusading myself with you chris? or colin? if the answer to these questions is yes in your eyes, then i am sorry... i didn't mean to hurt you i'm sorry that i made you cry i didn't want to hurt you i'm just a jealous guy... (john lennon) or peter saying to his Master, when he was called to see Matthew with new eyes, "Lord, I'm just a stupid....man..." Janene, i'm so sorry to hear of your cousin... one of my best friends is a calgary firefighter, who two weeks ago oversaw the lake search for a drowned boy in a storm, and who last year had to deal with dead bodies from a cyclone... and ashara, your friend' s son-in-law, how can i ever know what happened compared to those who lost loved ones or went through it... can i pontificate like a stanford polisci major? i trow not! and patrick leader, your moving personal experience...so well written, so moving... and you're most welcome sherelle and kakki if something i said was worthwhile to you... and deb shea, i'm so thankful you're safe...i was moved by what you said of your close experience... you sound like someone like a flower who no one should upset ...i hope you feel better real soon... and sharon, your journalist quote is good and true... and i know america herself is unbelievably strong ... and victor, your "angel in manhattan" was of such quality, such prescience as to be a guiding light for the hour... and you new jmdlers! so many new voices...welcome... call us to our higher and better selves! and so we are, perhaps, called to listen before we speak... behind the anonymity of computers we can sail off words far too fast...are we listening? and there are those others of you, so many, i haven't mentioned...i need to listen to you more... Bob...we have more than a little in common! "hejira" is my all time favourite joni song too... i admit it, but you were first... yes, forgive me those of you i should listen to more deeply, and respond more humanly... i wish i had seen you all at jonifest, including les, through whom this wonderful association all started...you all have so much to teach me... for benedict and the monastic tradition, listening is the very sine qua non of real spirituality, and this is shared with many buddhist monks, and sufi mystics... obviously there is a way for us beyond the mere talkers like robertson and falwell... did you all see the national service today? i was moved so much...to tears... good old billy, we'll miss him when he departs... and they sang Battle Hymn of the Republic for a stirring finale... and a few mentioned our own faults....if we could only start with ourselves , eh? and perhaps we might all pray for marcel...shall we all say a prayer for him? (and i do not excuse wrong actions here)...literally, this weekend...and mean it? ...exile is tough...i've known it...all of a sudden you're on alcatraz! (sounds like a joni line!) ...(maybe he'll change? ...though i believe you did right les...) there was a man kicked out by paul the apostle...then, after his heartbreak and change he could then be welcomed ...(who knows? at least we could say "Peace go with you, from us"... ...this would be like sweetgrass for us, or the peacepipe ceremony...) and michael, may morning come to morgantown real quick so we may hear from you again... and kate, thankyou for your maturity and wise words of counsel... and catherine udall turley we need yours too, and although i know you're job searching, you have poise...and we need it... can't you just hear joni saying, at the isle of wight, or any innumerable places (circa 1968-71 or thereabouts.)...please my friends, let's love one another... let's start right here, right now... loves' real...peace is real, just believe it in your heart and you'll find it... froggie plops into the pond... Plop! shane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 22:37:54 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: now for healing (NJC) Travis called me a few minutes ago to tell me to turn on the CBC. They were showing film from the service in Ottawa today. I was so touched. And then they cut to someone singing 'America the Beautiful' at the service in the US today and the dam finally broke. I sobbed. I still have tears in my eyes. I hope I can get past this now and get on with the healing. We all need to muster every bit of courage and hope we have. I've been feeling awful ever since Tuesday morning, feeling very depressed, afraid and angry. It's time to get past that now. Time to go forward. I really was thinking of unsubbing yesterday. I spent from the time I got home til about 8 pm just sitting here reading email and hurting. Hurting from the pain and loss so many of us suffered and hurting from the pain some were inflicting on each other. But by the time I finished, the tide had turned. People began to realize that we were all emotionally overwrought and words spoken in anger were sincerely repented and regretted. Today after reading Kay Ashley's post, reading about Debra Shea's ordeal, reading Anne Sandstrom's good news, looking at Nuriel's greeting cards and feeling all of the outpouring of support from all of you, I am so glad I did not act rashly. I would miss you all so dreadfully if I couldn't go to the computer and read your words and feel your support. In all honesty I don't think there was anything that anyone said that was going to make Marcel change his ways. Marcel seems to have an over-riding need to believe that he is right - always right. I just don't see him changing. I got to where I deleted his political diatribes unread. I think I probably did that with one or two private emails as well. I did read his last post and could only shake my head at his lame attempts to blame the Clintons for our present woes. But it didn't surprise me in the least. He didn't really bother me much personally. Usually if I didn't respond to him, I didn't hear from him again. I'm sorry other people weren't so lucky. Sometimes he wrote beautifully about Joni & music and his Jonifest posts were wonderful. But I just couldn't stomach his blind arrogance. I really hate for anybody to be exiled from the list but I honestly think Les did the right thing. I feel I need to apologize for the dark nature of my posts in recent days. This afternoon at work as I sat at my computer, unable to concentrate or get anything done I started to wonder if I was losing my mind. I felt that drained and depressed. But I think I'm past it now. I will try to be better at being positive and joining in the spirit that others have shown here of hope and belief in the basic goodness of human beings. Didn't Anne Frank say something about that? A good lesson to us all. At 12:30 this afternoon, Seattle observed a moment of silence. Some of us gathered outside our building and a coworker led us in the Pledge of Allegiance and in singing 'America the Beautiful'. Sirens & horns then rang out over Elliott Bay and we all stood in silent prayer & reflection. Then another coworker rang a bell and we went back to work. Tonight at 7pm pst I lit a candle and put it in the front window. Thank you all for every personal story and every word of hope and encouragement from all of our friends all over the planet. I don't want to leave this caring community even though I sometimes feel like I'm slipping further & further into the fringes of it. I hope Michael Paz comes back soon. The man has a huge heart and a noble & beautiful spirit. We are diminished by his absence. The same goes for you, Dulson. Steve is one of the kindest & nicest souls I have ever encountered. Come back soon, you guys. We need you both. Peace & Love to You All Mark E ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #408 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?