From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #407 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, September 14 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 407 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- An Angel in Manhattan(njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] On Silence NJC ["colin" ] Re: Goodbye [RobSher50@aol.com] Re: Goodbye [Rusty10113@aol.com] Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) [John van Tiel ] not so petty NJC [colin ] Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] Re: Let music soothe your soul [RoseMJoy@aol.com] CatNetwork lends a hand from the Midwest (NJC) [Don Rowe ] Re: some good news (njc) [colin ] Re: Yang Energy ["Brenda J. Walker" ] A message ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] Some cheer (NJC) [Gertus@aol.com] Re: Buckingham Palace(njc) [Susan Guzzi ] We Are an AWESOME Community!!!!! [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: To Michael Paz and everyone else too (NJC) ["Michael Paz" ] Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) ["Lori ] Re: To Michael Paz and everyone else too (NJC) [AsharaJM@aol.com] RE: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) ["C] RE: some good news (njc) ["Wally Kairuz" ] michael (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] NJC RE: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.c] Re: To Michael Paz and everyone else too (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds(NJC) [col] Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:38:56 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: An Angel in Manhattan(njc) "Angel In Manhattan" Tell the man who repairs the wings for angels That one has fallen among the mortals on Bleeker Street I lent a hand, she looked up at the steeples As if to blame them for the pavement beneath her feet She said, "I never much liked flying, but the job requires trying The hard part's avoiding buildings and concrete" (chorus) Spread the news, 'cause there's an angel in Manhattan Call out the paparazzi and the television crews Let the people choose Would a little Faith come to harm them? Print the headlines up in the New York Daily News It was just another day Like any other, other day A Tuesday afternoon I hailed a cab, a crowd gathered as it pulled beside us And somebody tore at her wings, but I helped her safely inside "I'm much obliged," she said, but the driver he looked shaken He said, "You're fakin', lady, who's taking who for a ride" But then we floated up over the traffic, she turned the radio to static, And she sang to him in Billy Holiday's sweet voice (chorus) Spread the news, 'cause there's an angel in Manhattan Call out the paparazzi and the the television crews Hey if you choose Would a little Faith come to harm you? Print the headlines up in the New York Daily News It was just another day What will the mayor say? "Good afternoon" We flew down the length of Fifth Avenue She threw out miracles, it was a hysterical ride And if the crowd on the sidewalk looked skeptical She took the blue right out of their cynical eyes "It's all in what you feel inside" She shook the mayor's hand, and he declared That he'd hold a press conference, The fans and protesters blocked the stairs to city hall "I'd like to thank you all," he said And when she stepped before the cameras It felt like a trial, but she smiled as the questions were called, "What do you say to detractors, who claim you're just some actor?" She said, "The question here, is 'Do I believe in you?'" It was just another day Like any other, other day (chorus) Spread the news, I saw an an angel fly from Manhattan In front of paparazzi, in front of television crews And me I choose I know a little Faith wouldn't harm me Despite what they print in the New York Daily News It was just another day Like any other, other day Like any day (c) Ellis Paul Music (SESAC) 1998 Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:50:59 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: "colin" Subject: On Silence NJC With reference to those who choose to remain silent when obivou abuse is happening, where ever that may be. 'evil flourishes because good people do nothing' ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:43:08 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: Goodbye Dear Brett: This list has seen much worse than what recently transpired. We lost a list member in a car accident about two weeks after a similar heated disagreement. To me, that's worse, because we can't bring him back to straighten it out. That's why a lot of the list members feel like the controversy just isn't worth it...ever. So Steve, take your rest, but please come back so that we can all work it out. Once a friend's voice is silenced by death, all that is left are regrets. Sherelle In a message dated 09/14/2001 12:03:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > Bye Steve, > > You are so right. There was a kind of golden age on this list - for years. > Now, it is hopeless and stupid, childish and ridiculous. No judgement, bad > judgement. It is permanent and perpetual, it seems. So much so, that it > has silenced me almost completely. > > Have a good break. And come back some time soon. Few know Joni like you > do. The list needs you. > > Brett ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:41:37 EDT From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: Goodbye HI all...I must say, I'm often stunned into apathy and silence by the childishness displayed in many posts here, instead of sharing what this list, to me, is about: sharing how Joni's music makes our lives better and richer...I quickly delete messages I see spin off into intellectual nastiness, but I treasure the posts of new Joni news, links, etc., that often make my day...do I want to quit just yet? No... I live in New York City, and as I walked in the rain today to get my coffee, Ladies of the Canyon soothed me every step of the way, and I felt lighter...isn't this small but significant Joni-related musing what this list should be about? think about it today Joni lovers, and drop the attitude please! If you're having a hard time with that, put on "for free" a few times, it always works for me :) Love M ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:51:08 -0400 From: John van Tiel Subject: Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) Kay, dearest Kay, For some reason, the past week has brought out the best AND the worst in our community. Reading your mail, I could only think of one thing: I am perfectly willing to deal with weeks or even months of petty bickering, little feuds and pissy write-first-think-later mails for ONE post like yours. It shines. So do you. The warmest of kisses and a big, big Dutch hug. John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:13:53 +0100 From: colin Subject: not so petty NJC There has been petty bickering on this list. I freely admit that i have succombed to it too, when i should have ignored the barbs and not retatliated. However, the recent stuff regarding ABUSE was not petty at all. It was vile. It caused great distress. It went on for a long time because the people here let it go on, they ignored it, and now some are excusing it. Silence equals consent, even when you wish it didn't. This whole thing could have been cleared up a long time ago. Perhaps it wouldn't have come to this. Abuse in genral happens because people ignore it, don't want to get involved, don't want the hassle. Thus we read about dead children everyday in the papers. In this case, it was adults and no one died. However, the allowing of it was shameful. The attacking of the victims of it was wrose. Please, I hope this never is allowed to happen again. This list is a wonderful place and we each need to protect that. we are human, we can't avoid pettiness, disagreements, fallings out but we can and must stop abuse and speak up when we see it happening. This was not a sudden development. It had been going on for quite some time, a couple of years and it was ignored and excused for far too long. No one on this list deserves that kind harrassment. We are all here because of a common bond. And we should be free to express ourselves and to disagree and to agree. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:12:04 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) Dear, dear John: For the past several days I have been unable and unwilling to turn on my computer and respond to the hundreds of missives in my mailbox. However, I have read your missive and those of many others. Some I delete immediately because I can not bear to hear diatribes. Last night after a dinner of animal crackers I mowed the lawn and enjoyed the smells of freshly cut grass and felt grateful for simple pleasures. After mowing I sat outside with my little dog Hootie, and my rambunctious golden retriever pup, Lily and looked up into the black night. Stars above shone brilliantly and I knew these stars had seen everything from the beginning of earth's time, to the beginning of our time, and they will continue this knowing to another's beginning. I am glad we have stars because they do show us the way. Love and Peace.........Sharon John van Tiel wrote: > > Kay, dearest Kay, > > For some reason, the past week has brought out the best AND the worst in our > community. Reading your mail, I could only think of one thing: I am > perfectly willing to deal with weeks or even months of petty bickering, > little feuds and pissy write-first-think-later mails for ONE post like > yours. It shines. > > So do you. > > The warmest of kisses and a big, big Dutch hug. > > John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:20:19 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: You've received a postcard from Nuriel Tobias!-njc How very sweet, Nuriel. Thank you, Jerry (home today braving a very fierce tropical storm) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:22:02 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Let music soothe your soul <> It's probably no secret that music is constantly soothing my soul...although I haven't been using much Joni to soothe me recently. Last night I spun Earth Wind & Fire's "That's the Way of the World", and it was rejuvenating. I've also had a couple songs "NPIMH" since Tuesday, namely Marvin Gaye's "What's Goin' On" & Stevie Wonder's "Love's In Need of Love Today". Both the work of pure genius. But I don't want to sidestep your question, Sherrelle...the Joni song that touches me the deepest would have to be "Hejira", that mystical chord progression accompanied by such profound words and so many phrases that I feel I have lived through. I hope that everyone will step up and answer your question, especially those who have been complaining about content, and lack of Joni, etc. Thanks for 'lighting a candle'! :~) Bob NP: Wilco, "Pieholden Suite" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:38:36 +0000 From: "Leslie Ross" Subject: Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) Kay Ashley story. What a spectacular piece of your heart to put down in words. Kay, this is heroic to me. Les (London) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:46:04 -0500 From: "Diane Evans" Subject: Re: list and email Colin wrote: >this new form of communication we all use has really opened our worlds >hasn't it? > >Were it not for it, yesterday would have been something that happened a >long long way away. Instead it is like it was here. >Four years of bonding and sharing lives. Yesterday i was numb and >shocked, today my throst is coinstricted and i feel breathless. > >So far it seems our list has escaped this abomination. Waiting for news >of listers has been difficult. > >I am glad we share with eachother here and the love we show eachother. These words and so many more penned by our thoughtful listers have given me many moments of reflection during the past couple of somber days. I have often been inspired by your words as I have spoken with my students. So many of "my kids" have worried moments about the safety of themselves and their families! You all have helped me navigate some murky waters with your deep words, your stories that have put us on the edge of the horror (to appreciate the value and fragility of humanity). You are all truly a blessing in my life. Peace, Diane _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:51:03 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Let music soothe your soul In a message dated 9/14/01 11:26:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > I hope that everyone will step up and answer your question, especially those > who have been complaining about content, and lack of Joni, etc. Thanks for > 'lighting a candle'! :~) > > Yesterday I listened to BSN& All Things Must Pass Today I listened to Wild Things Run Fast, one I don't play too often I might add, but it brought new meaning for me today But the one song that I always find to be very touching, has to be Amelia. It completes me. The words and thoughts I find for today are Humanity and the tragedy of the human condition Rose in NJ mourning together with you all NP: choir music in the background on TV from the Washington Cathedral rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:54:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: CatNetwork lends a hand from the Midwest (NJC) In this time of devastation, the worst thing is the helplesness I know I'm feeling ... and suspect others are as well. We sit clustered around our televisions, radios and PCs ... clutching at those bits and pieces of information in a genuine attempt to feel more "connected." I turned off my television last night. I picked up the phone and called the administrator of a feline rescue organization I volunteer for ... CatNetwork. I asked the head administrator if there was anything we could do. She said there was. Though we "do cats", we're also connected to most every other animal program here in Missouri quite closely. She gave me a list of numbers to call, instructing me to offer what financial assistance we could to help the victims in NYC. An hour and a half later, we had located four trained dogs from Missouri Canine Search & Rescue. We arranged the transfer of funds, which as it turned out, enabled them & their handlers to leave for New York City early this morning. The realist in me knows this small gesture may well turn out to be futile. But at least I know that I've helped to do something. Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:00:15 EDT From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: Yang Energy Love that suggestion! Thanks so much, it's positive messages like this that keep me coming back to this list, what a great idea! Hmmmm...I think I'm gonna choose Help Me, Free Man in Paris, Carey and All I Want, to me, the most joyous of Joni songs...thanks again Brenda.. Mitch ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:57:30 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: CatNetwork lends a hand from the Midwest (NJC) > The realist in me knows this small gesture may well > turn out to be futile. But at least I know that I've > helped to do something. Nothing like this is ever futile. thank you Don. > > > Don Rowe > > ===== > Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe > > __________________________________________________ > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? > Donate cash, emergency relief information > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:48:11 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: some good news (njc) It is a week of tragedy and a week of miracles. I met with the surgeon this morning. According to the latest CT scan, the growth they've been seeing on previous scans has disappeared! It means that the drug I've been taking could finally be working to shrink and even get rid of the tumor. Next, they'll be doing an MRI to get another view, just to be sure. Maybe not quite a miracle, but I'll take it! I can't say it enough. Thank you for all your thoughts and prayers. We're not done, but this is one battle at least we're winning. lots (and lots) of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 18:10:03 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: some good news (njc) Anne Sandstrom wrote: > It is a week of tragedy and a week of miracles. > > I met with the surgeon this morning. According to the latest CT scan, the > growth they've been seeing on previous scans has disappeared! this is wonderful news Anne! luv colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:57:58 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Yang Energy Your welcome. I listen to music most of the day. But it usually plays softly through the PC speakers. It's amazing how different it feels when its blasting from the stereo for just a few minutes. So turn it up! (And dance like no one's watching....) Brenda NP - KCRW broadcast of National Cathedral Services On 14 Sep 2001, at 12:00, Rusty10113@aol.com wrote: > Love that suggestion! Thanks so much, it's positive messages like this that > keep me coming back to this list, what a great idea! > > Hmmmm...I think I'm gonna choose Help Me, Free Man in Paris, Carey and All I > Want, to me, the most joyous of Joni songs...thanks again Brenda.. > > Mitch ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:07:15 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: A message Leonard Pitts, Jr, The Miami Herald Published Wednesday, September 12, 2001 We'll go forward from this moment It's my job to have something to say. They pay me to provide words that help make sense of that which troubles the American soul. But in this moment of airless shock when hot tears sting disbelieving eyes, the only thing I can find to say, the only words that seem to fit, must be addressed to the unknown author of this suffering. You monster. You beast. You unspeakable bastard. What lesson did you hope to teach us by your coward's attack on our World Trade Center, our Pentagon, us? What was it you hoped we would learn? Whatever it was, please know that you failed. Did you want us to respect your cause? You just damned your cause. Did you want to make us fear? You just steeled our resolve. Did you want to tear us apart? You just brought us together. Let me tell you about my people. We are a vast and quarrelsome family, a family rent by racial, social, political and class division, but a family nonetheless. We're frivolous, yes, capable of expending tremendous emotional energy on pop cultural minutiae -- a singer's revealing dress, a ball team's misfortune, a cartoon mouse. We're wealthy, too, spoiled by the ready availability of trinkets and material goods, and maybe because of that, we walk through life with a certain sense of blithe entitlement. We are fundamentally decent, though -- peace-loving and compassionate. We struggle to know the right thing and to do it. And we are, the overwhelming majority of us, people of faith, believers in a just and loving God. Some people -- you, perhaps -- think that any or all of this makes us weak. You're mistaken. We are not weak. Indeed, we are strong in ways that cannot be measured by arsenals. IN PAIN Yes, we're in pain now. We are in mourning and we are in shock. We're still grappling with the unreality of the awful thing you did, still working to make ourselves understand that this isn't a special effect from some Hollywood blockbuster, isn't the plot development from a Tom Clancy novel. Both in terms of the awful scope of their ambition and the probable final death toll, your attacks are likely to go down as the worst acts of terrorism in the history of the United States and, probably, the history of the world. You've bloodied us as we have never been bloodied before. But there's a gulf of difference between making us bloody and making us fall. This is the lesson Japan was taught to its bitter sorrow the last time anyone hit us this hard, the last time anyone brought us such abrupt and monumental pain. When roused, we are righteous in our outrage, terrible in our force. When provoked by this level of barbarism, we will bear any suffering, pay any cost, go to any length, in the pursuit of justice. I tell you this without fear of contradiction. I know my people, as you, I think, do not. What I know reassures me. It also causes me to tremble with dread of the future. In the days to come, there will be recrimination and accusation, fingers pointing to determine whose failure allowed this to happen and what can be done to prevent it from happening again. There will be heightened security, misguided talk of revoking basic freedoms. We'll go forward from this moment sobered, chastened, sad. But determined, too. Unimaginably determined. THE STEEL IN US You see, the steel in us is not always readily apparent. That aspect of our character is seldom understood by people who don't know us well. On this day, the family's bickering is put on hold. As Americans we will weep, as Americans we will mourn, and as Americans, we will rise in defense of all that we cherish. So I ask again: What was it you hoped to teach us? It occurs to me that maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of your hatred. If that's the case, consider the message received. And take this message in exchange: You don't know my people. You don't know what we're capable of. You don't know what you just started. But you're about to learn. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 13:11:03 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Some cheer (NJC) Got sent these recently and thought they might lighten up the load a bit:_ BEER TROUBLESHOOTING SYMPTOM FAULT ACTION Feet cold and wet. Glass being held at incorrect angle. Rotate glass so that open end points toward ceiling. Feet warm and wet. Improper bladder control. Stand next to nearest dog, complain about house training. Beer unusually pale and tasteless. Glass empty. Get someone to buy you another beer. Opposite wall covered with fluorescent lights. You have fallen over backward. Have yourself leashed to bar. Mouth contains cigarette butts. You have fallen forward. See above. Beer tasteless, front of your shirt is wet. Mouth not open, or glass applied to wrong part of face. Retire to restroom, practice in mirror. Floor blurred. You are looking through bottom of empty glass. Get someone to buy you another beer. Floor moving. You are being carried out. Find out if you are being taken to another bar. Room seems unusually dark. Bar has closed. Confirm home address with bartender. Taxi suddenly takes on colorful aspect and textures. Beer consumption has exceeded personal limitations. Cover mouth. Everyone looks up to you and smiles. You are dancing on the table. Fall on somebody cushy-looking. Beer is crystal-clear. It's water. Somebody is trying to sober you up. Punch him. Hands hurt, nose hurts, mind unusually clear. You have been in a fight. Apologize to everyone you see, just in case it was them. Don't recognize anyone, don't recognize the room you're in. You've wandered into the wrong party. See if they have free beer. Your singing sounds distorted. The beer is too weak. Have more beer until your voice improves. Don't remember the words to the song. Beer is just right. Play air guitar. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:22:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Buckingham Palace(njc) Victor wrote: I saw tonight in London(on the news), a marching band at Buckingham Palace play "The Star Spangled Banner". It really made me feel a sense of solidarity and support from around the world. _________________ I saw that as well Victor. I was in my home bar and there were about 10 of us, men & women and we all burst into tears. It was not a really sad moment but more so a poignant one. I guess we felt like little babies getting some much needed strokes. Thank you to our friends everywhere all over the world! I really hope those Buckingham Palace guards know what a great thing they did. Love especially to our brothers & sisters in the U.K. I hope those in NY and DC all know our thoughts never stray very far from you and your even darker plight. EVERYBODY I LOVE YOU! It's real simple but maybe if we just got in the habit - maybe it all won't be just a dream some of us had. PEACE Susan __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 13:49:27 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: We Are an AWESOME Community!!!!! I am SOOOOO thrilled with Anne's good news, and have been waiting for a good time to announce this. This seems like as good a time as any. We all need more good news right about now. These are the final numbers for what we raised for Jim Johanson and JoniMitchell.com: Donations: $1865.00 Raffle at Jonifest: $570.00 Total: $2,435.00 Thank you to EVERYONE that participated!! We are AWESOME, and each of us DOES make a difference. Jim, we love you, and our thoughts, prayers and healing energy are going your way to help you get well. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:58:23 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Re: To Michael Paz and everyone else too (NJC) Debra- Thank you so much for sending this. I accept your apology and forgive you. I am sorry I have not written back sooner, but I found it necessary to unplug for awhile. I don't fault you for anything especially regarding Mark (who thinks he's Marcel). As you probably might notice I tend to avoid political debates in this particular arena. When I first joined this list, I use to wonder why the hell people weren't talking about Joni and having all these other discussions. I got in a couple of flame wars over all that. After I grew up, I realized that I too didn't wanna talk about just Joni. As a matter of fact, I found out that I didn't even wanna discuss her love life or any other thing about her personal life (which is done here regularly). I don't think it's right (but don't attack people for their right to free speech). I am not above some gossip over the phone or some juicy tidbits over cocktails, but on this list I avoid those issues as much as possible. Marcel got what he asked for and so be it. Being a Christian I am capable of forgiving him for being an asshole. I am the worlds leading expert because despite popular belief I have a dark side just like anyone else and can be the biggest asshole in the world (just ask some of my friends). I find it necessary at this time to follow my wise and very talented brother Steve from Sourthern California for awhile and take a little break. This has NOTHING to do with Marcel for I think he made HIS bed and he can sleep in it alone. It was his own choice and I don't think he will change to please anyone but himself. I do know that this list brought out in him the music that was asleep inside of him and recently told me a story to me about going back to his old college and in his biz suit and took his guitar out of the trunk of his car, went into one of the old dorms and up in one of those stairwells (you know the ones with the great reverb) and played his guitar and sang a few tunes. After he finished playing he heard the sound of applause. It was some students that had heard him and came to check out who it was that was playing. They commented something like, "look it's an old guy-who ARE you" etc. The wanted him to sign up to play in their campus coffeehouse so they could enjoy the music more. The story touched me because of the damn music that fills my whole being everyday of my life (plus I have played a few stairwells in my life). It is also the similar to the way I discovered Joni Mitchell in Paris from a girl called Julie who was playing Joni songs on the stoop of a hostel in the west bank of Paris. Thanks Julie whereever you are. I thank God that the music found Mark again and that I had the chance to play with him and meet him in person. I have been honored to meet so many of you and feel blessed to have create friendships that will last forever. I continue to support Les for it is his domain and I am merely a grateful guest here. I have for awhile being going thru many other issues in my life and thru the grace of many of you on this list who have reached out to help me (as well as other friends not on this list), I have decided to make a stronger effort to improve things for myself. I thank all of my friends here for all the cards, letters, and phone calls recently and for your love and concern. I especially want to thank publically Marian Russell for her kind and beautiful email that I received this morning. I have been weepy and sad, but had not yet been able to have a really good cry about this whole fecking mess and she opened the flood gates for me. Putting dear old mom up there with those other wonderful women was an image that I needed to see and her compassion and intelligence shines SO brightly. There is nothing in life that comes close to the release of laughing and and really good cry. Marian you continue to be my hero on the list and I thank you again for bringing me back to my guitar and I wish I could give you a huge hug right now. I don't think I am leaving for good for I still love this place to much and have been touched so deeply by so many of you here, but I need to take a little nap. To EVERYBODY in NYC, Washington, Boston, and PA. I will continue to keep you in my thoughts and prayers as I will for the whole world, for it has all been changed forever. I pray they find more survivors. I think the rain today was the good! Lords way of getting at least some water to some of those people that are trapped in there. The morning newscaster saw it as a deterent in the rescue effort, but go figure, I saw it as a possible help. I have always been a terminal optimist and very positive. I know we can not have good without the bad, but I am not so naive to think that I need to act bad to be good. I guess some people might even tell you that when I am bad I am really good, but I digress...Keep laughing and loving and sharing of yourselves and avoid the bull shit if at all possible especially in these troubled times. It's nowhere. I will be thinking of you I am sure and I know I will miss you. Love and peace to you all, Michael Paz ....nothing lasts for long, nothing lasts for long, nothing lasts for long..... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "dsk" To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 12:02 AM Subject: To Michael Paz and everyone else too (NJC) > Michael, > > I have been rougher on you than you deserve and I'm very sorry for that. > And to other listmembers too... my message today was certainly not one > of my finest. Please forgive me for assaulting you all in that way. > > Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:33:53 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: To Michael Paz and everyone else too (NJC) Dear Michael, Again, you're showing your generous spirit. Thank you, again, so much. Your leaving makes me very sad. It creates a huge hole in this community, even though I can understand your need for taking a break now. My thoughts and heart are with you as you go through this time of healing. Please don't stay away long. with love, Debra Michael Paz wrote: > > Debra- > Thank you so much for sending this. I accept your apology and forgive you. I > am sorry I have not written back sooner, but I found it necessary to unplug > for awhile. I don't fault you for anything especially regarding Mark (who > thinks he's Marcel). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:36:10 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: We Are an AWESOME Community!!!!! Yes, you are, you are. This is simply wonderful. rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:48:52 -0400 From: John van Tiel Subject: Re: To Michael Paz and everyone else too (NJC) If I were your dad instead of your Uncle, I would say: "Make sure you'll be back before midnight. I don't want to get worried." (Please) John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:09:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) Dear, wonderful Kay, Your post was so right on, I don't have the proper words to express my thanks to you for writing it. And although I have supported Les's difficult decision regarding Marcel, it's been bothering me all this while as I think that during this difficult time, Marcel probably needs the JMDL community as much as any of the rest of us. Perhaps some reconsideration -- or at least some additional dialog with Marcel -- is in order. Really bummed today, still waiting for tears to come, Lori in MD ~ __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:10:30 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28620-2001Sep14.html Lori in MD ~ __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:17:59 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: To Michael Paz and everyone else too (NJC) Mikie, I was going to say "I'll miss you," but that wouldn't be quite true because I have your phone number. ;-) I "will" say, however, that your presence here on the list will be sorely missed, and I hope your nap doesn't last too long. So, get out your blankie, and have a good rest, and know that we are here for you always. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 20:20:12 +0100 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) *blink* *swallow* *breathe* No no, it's no good, I just don't know what to say. It defies belief. - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:27:22 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: some good news (njc) anne!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! god bless you!!!!!! so much love, wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Anne Sandstrom Enviado el: Viernes, 14 de Septiembre de 2001 01:48 p.m. Para: 'joni@smoe.org' Asunto: some good news (njc) It is a week of tragedy and a week of miracles. Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:35:19 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: michael (NJC) michael, i don't know if you'll believe me but i like you so much! i understand your decision but please be back soon. don't forget us. without you we won't be so beautiful as we deserve to be. your dear friend wallyfacio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:36:38 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC RE: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) It's the kind of thing that makes me cringe sometimes to identify myself as a Christian. Hopefully none of you links MY concept of God to theirs. Sad to say, here in Bob Jones University country, I get this sort of shit a lot. Bob, who thinks that if Jesus were walking around today he'd spend lots of time pulling the plugs on self-righteous assholes like Falwell & Robertson NP: Lucinda, "Jackson" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:16:41 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: To Michael Paz and everyone else too (NJC) Michael, You are one of the truest friends this community has ever had. I am blessed that you have been a friend to me. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:20:01 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) Rotten pieces of shit they are. > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28620-2001Sep14.html > > Lori > in MD > ~ > > __________________________________________________ > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? > Donate cash, emergency relief information > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:45:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) > It's the kind of thing that makes me cringe sometimes to identify myself > as a Christian. Hopefully none of you links MY concept of God to theirs. Not to worry, my friend. I'm sure most of us know the difference between real Christians like you, and those "other" folks. > Bob, who thinks that if Jesus were walking around today he'd spend lots > of time pulling the plugs on self-righteous assholes like Falwell & > Robertson I agree with you!! Lori in MD ~ __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:47:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: NJC RE: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Bob, who thinks that if Jesus were walking around > today he'd spend lots of time pulling the plugs on > self-righteous assholes like Falwell & Robertson An he's immaculately ... tax free ... sa-ave me Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:48:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) > Rotten pieces of shit they are. LOL, Kakki ... I know you're dead serious, but I'm so not used to you reacting this way! I'm just sitting here smiling now. The change feels good. Thank you. I love you. Lori ~ __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:51:44 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) these murderous imbeciles challenge my ability to forgive. next thing they'll be sacrificing aclu supporters at the altar of their profitably private and hateful god. w > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28620-2001Sep14.html > > Lori > in MD ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:29:33 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) I try to save it up for when it really matters ;-) Love you too, Kakki > > Rotten pieces of shit they are. > > LOL, Kakki ... I know you're dead serious, but I'm so not used to you > reacting this way! I'm just sitting here smiling now. The change feels > good. > > Thank you. I love you. > > Lori > ~ > > > __________________________________________________ > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? > Donate cash, emergency relief information > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:00:48 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC RE: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) <> Well put, Wally! I can easily forgive them, then i'll whup 'em with an ugly stick! :~D Bob NP: Lucinda Williams, "Lonely Girls" (live) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:41:38 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds (NJC) F*ck them - they are toast now, and good riddance. > these murderous imbeciles challenge my ability to >forgive. next thing they'll be sacrificing aclu supporters at >the altar of their profitably private and hateful god. > w ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:37:41 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: To Michael Paz and everyone else too (NJC) > I don't think I am leaving for good for I still love this place to much i hope not. Take care, sort out what you need to sort out, and come back. love colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:39:54 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) Thanks, Kay, for taking the time to send us this. Happy Birthday to you and may you have many many more!!! I held my breath while reading what you've written. I am so happy to learn of all the miracles that occurred that day. It doesn't take away the pain and the huge loss, but it does give a bit of relief, a chance to be thankful and a chance to look at each other in a new way. I, too, am feeling that it's time to put all squabbles away, and see all and everyone bathed in a golden light, all is forgiven, all is in harmony, knowing even while I wish for that that it's not real, it's not being fully human. There will always be disagreements between people and having the willingness to work them out is one of the beauties of being human, I think, because when they're worked out it means change and growth have occurred and that's what we're here for, what we're built to do with this brain and heart of ours. So while I can fully comprehend all you've said and feel also the feelings behind your words, my thoughts and feelings today go in another direction. All of my siblings and parents, cousins, uncles and aunts are in Virginia or farther South, a place I've not lived in for over 20 years, and feel little connection to now. My brother's work involves having TVs on all the time. When we talked on the phone, I was in tears hearing what it was like for him seeing the towers fall as it happened and knowing I worked in that area and not knowing exactly where I was or if I was at work that day since my schedule changes so often. After all my years of being here in NYC, my family is very good about not assuming the worst. I've told them countless times that "there are millions of people in this city so if you hear about one or two bad things happening, keep in mind the number of people and how it's very unlikely it will involve me." Tuesday's horror made it very hard for them to hold onto that idea. I haven't talked to my brother in a long time, a year maybe, not because of any disagreements or bad feelings, just because neither of us got around to calling. I'm in touch more often with my sisters, but again not regularly, and talking to them was a similar emotional experience. One of them had gotten the message through the grapevine that I was ok and she left a message on my answering machine that she knew I was ok but please call because she just wanted to hear my voice. A very simple thing. Something we've all taken for granted, being able to hear each other's voice. My family is very good at covering over disagreements, being nice no matter what we're feeling, keeping in negative thoughts, all things that on first look seem to be admirable. It's certainly quieter than hashing things out. After years of trying to fight through that veneer I learned to also keep quiet with them and seek support and love elsewhere. The result is a disconnectedness from my family, a diminishment of each of us because we're not expressing who we truly are, and by doing that we not only lose the chance to learn about each other, but about ourselves too. It's hard to feel deeply about someone, including one's self, if you don't know their essence. Respect, that's easy, appreciation, that's an "of course", even love is an "of course" because we're family. The gut wrenching love I felt when talking to my brother and he wasn't for the first time keeping it all in, that's new and that's precious, and the pain of that is worth more than all the years of glossing over could ever be. I take such thoughts and apply them to our Joni family, too, so even though it's noisy sometimes here, even though the squabbles can be annoying especially to people not directly involved, and they can seem to take forever to be resolved, it's important stuff. It shows us all who we are. It can make us better if we let ourselves be affected by it. In any relationship it's always a tough call as to which disagreements to struggle through noisily and which to let go, and people will have different views about that, leading to disagreements within disagreements and so much confusion it can become intolerable to some. Sometimes, though, working through a disagreement even if it's unpleasant or painful... at some point it must be done in order to go on honestly. To just cover over throws away all growth, all chance to become closer to each other and closer to knowing ourselves too. To struggle through together can result in a harmony that's genuine and not just a wishful golden patina; even though such a patina can be stunningly beautiful, it's not as lasting as having the golden glow coming from inside us. That is something to strive for, I think, working toward that golden glow within us all and helping each other to get there, and the path to that will probably often be noisy and is rarely smooth. Anyway such are my thoughts on this rainy New York day. Love to you all, Debra Shea NP: Children teasing each other outside and a plane overhead, with the sound disappearing into the distance. Things are going to be all right again, not as they were before, but eventually they'll be all right. Kay Ashley wrote: > > Thanks to all the listers who have posted/called me privately to express > their relief that I'm OK and to express their condolences, especially Ric, > Patrick and Roberto, whom I haven't had the time/brain space to answer > individually. The last few days have been very hard. I've learned of many > miracles and also many tragedies. It seems that Divine Providence or > Something had a hand in many people's lives on Tuesday morning -- the number > of people I know who were running late, overslept, etc., etc., is amazing to > me... there was some special energy helping people along, gently nudging > them out of the way of the most intense danger. As it stands now, "only" > about 4700 people are unaccounted for. That in itself is miraculous. It > could have been 25,000 or more. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:44:46 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Our national tragedy -- and the unbelievable crap it breeds(NJC) perhaps they will lose some of their supporters and their money as a result. we can hope can't we? Jesus said'many will call me Lord and I will not recognize them' or something to that effect. These people and their followers are sick, as are all fundies. It takes a particular warped mind to believe this crap. It is an addiction. Others obsess over different things. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 13:12:24 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) Kay, I was absolutely riveted by your post today on every level. When I got into work my assistant asked me "so what's the latest?" (meaning what news I had heard) and all I could do was relate to him parts of your post. It took his breath away and believe me, bolstered and heartened him as much as it did me. I wanted to share some of the way this has been affecting people in my little niche out here in L.A. The people in my law firm all the way from the bottom to the top are still shell-shocked. I have been amazed at the compassion shown by the "powers that be". They are keeping TVs going in the office, have set aside rooms for people to go to and talk and have written several sensitive and support memos to the employees. When I returned to work on Wednesday morning, it was the lawyers who are usually the coldest and hardest who had the reddest eyes and most devastated posture. We learned that we had several of our lawyers in New York and D.C. at the time of the incidents. All of them were safe. We were told that two of them (who I have worked very closely with for years) were going to rent a car and start driving west out of NYC. At first I thought it was a joke, but it wasn't. They drove all the way to Denver and then flew in this morning from there. Several of our main clients' offices were in the WTC buildings which were destroyed. I just finished a project this morning that should have taken me a few hours to complete, but which took me these 2 1/2 days. When I left for lunch, there were several circles of people outside holding hands in silence. I lost it. Then someone started singing "My Country Tis of Thee" and we all joined in choking, crying and completely out of tune. I haven't sang that song since I was about 7 years old, but all the words came back to me. My country tis of thee Sweet land of liberty Let freedom ring Land where my fathers died Land of the pilgrim's pride From every mountainside Let freedom ring Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #407 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?